HomeMy WebLinkAboutCheletia Johnson Oral History Part 1 TranscriptOral History Interview
Cheletia Johnson | Lincoln Recreation Center Director
Kimberly McNally | Historical Records Archivist
November 19, 2024 | 12:34 PM
00:00:06 CJ
I am Cheletia M. Johnson, lifelong resident of College Station, otherwise known to the Lincoln
Center community as Miss Cheletia.
00:00:19 KM
And my name is Kimberly McNally. I'm the historical records archivist for the City of College Station,
and we are here at the Lincoln Center. It is November 19th, 2024, at 12:34 PM.
00:00:36 KM
So when and where were you born?
00:00:39 CJ
I was born in 1973 in Bryan, TX, lived in Bryan, TX for four years of my life until we moved to College
Station in 1979.
00:00:54 KM
So what brought y’all to College Station from Bryan?
00:00:56 CJ
I, that's a good question. I really don't know why my mama moved to College Station, but there was
a new apartment complex that had just opened in College Station that was aƯordable and it was
the Southgate Village Apartments right around the corner here from Lincoln Center on Luther
Street. And they had just built there in 78 or 79. And I guess my mom wanted us to move to a better
location. Me and my three sisters. Yeah.
00:01:31 KM
So during what years have you lived here?
00:01:34 CJ
From 1979 until now.
00:01:40 KM
Who were your friends growing up?
00:01:41 CJ
Whoo. Some of my friends, going to school in College Station since kindergarten. One of my good
friends, still today, Tamisha Crawford. My best friend that passed away in ‘06 Melody Palmore. It
was quite a few of us that lived in Southgate. I'm trying to remember, that we're still friends today.
One young man, I could think of right now, that we grew up at South Knoll together, Patrick Baca,
who is a veteran and we're still friends today. And John Rolts (sp?), and quite a few of us. Yes, so we
had a lot of friends.
00:02:25 KM
Were most of them neighbors or did you meet them through school?
00:02:26 CJ
No, the ones that… Growing up in Southgate, it was a lot of us that went to South Knoll, so we were
just neighborhood kids that played together. But then when I went to South Knoll, I had my friends
from South Knoll, too. Back then, we called them friends, but now I don't know if they would just
friends or just your playmates that you play with at school. Yes, so. But everybody played together.
00:02:53 KM
What kinds of things would you do when you would play together?
00:02:57 CJ
In Southgate, we had a play area. Like, we had a swing set and then we had an open field that we
would all play kickball together. Baseball, and other little tag games, and charades, and run around
or ride bikes together, relay races, jump rope, hopscotch, the Chinese jump rope. I mean, we did a
lot of stuƯ in Southgate playing with each other.
00:03:28 KM
Do any specific memories stick out to you?
00:03:30 CJ
I guess in the summertime when we would all be together and we would all be in the center of this
play area in Southgate and all the neighborhood kids would be playing kickball, all of us. And then
one other time I remember us playing. And we put on a play for my mom. We did a “Happy Days”
[sitcom] play with my mom and it was the neighborhood kids, and we just had a good time. It was
never a dull moment in Southgate with all of us because we played together, we ran around
together, and then it was a neighborhood store, “Mr. Ping”, that we would go to. And some, some,
some good memories.
00:04:13 KM
What kind of store was that?
00:04:14 CJ
It was just a convenience store. And it was the, the owner was, I don't know Mr. Ping’s real name,
but it was an Asian family that owned it. It was right there on Wellborn Road, now where the
apartment complex is, it used to be a store and then later on in life they added a Chinese restaurant
to it. But it was still Mr. Ping and his family. And, I mean, of course, kids gonna be kids and you know,
yeah, we had fun with Mr. Ping.
00:04:48 KM
So, when you went to school, going back to your earliest time here in College Station, which school
did you go to?
00:04:57 CJ
When I moved to College Station, I went to South Knoll Elementary. And went to South Knoll from K
through 5th grade, and then 6th grade we went to Oakwood, and 7th and 8th grade was A&M
Consolidated Junior High, what it is today, and then 9th through 12th I want to A&M Consolidated
High School.
00:05:21 KM
Over oƯ of 2818? OK.
00:05:22 CJ
Mm-hmm, yep.
00:05:25 KM
Were you involved in any student organizations or extracurricular?
00:05:28 CJ
Yes, I, 6th grade I was in band and 7th and 8th grade I did band, athletics, and then I started a club
called Ebony and Ivory, yeah, 7th and 8th grade. It was just a mixed club, so we could celebrate
culture. Cultural, and unity, and respect diƯerences. And so I started that. And I can't think of
anything else I did in junior high, but that was enough for a person of my age. And then in high
school I was a part of Black Awareness Club, Student Council, band, and I did track. I think that's it,
I think, yeah, yeah.
00:06:15 KM
What instruments do you play in band?
00:06:16 CJ
I played the flute. Yeah. Played the flute, 6th grade all the way through the 12th grade.
00:06:21 KM
Was it more, like, a concert band or marching band?
00:06:25 CJ
Well, of course, from junior 6th grade through 8th grade it was just concert. And then high school, it
was marching and concert. We did marching band in the fall and in the spring it was concert.
00:06:39 KM
And what events did you do in track?
00:06:40 CJ
I did shot put and discus.
00:06:44 KM
Oh, fun!
00:06:45 CJ
Yeah.
00:06:49 KM
And after high school, where did you go for your undergraduate?
00:06:52 CJ
I started oƯ at Blinn College. I did two years at Blinn and then I did 1 semester at University of Mary
Hardin-Baylor, but then when I realized that this is a private institute and the tuition was extremely
high, I returned home and transferred to Texas A&M University and I finished at Texas A&M in 1998.
And then ’04 through ‘06 I attended Prairie View A&M University to receive my master’s in
counseling. Yes.
00:07:29 KM
And what was your undergraduate degree in?
00:07:31 CJ
Community health, yes.
00:07:35 KM
So, during that time that you were in school, did you have any jobs that you did with classes?
00:07:42 CJ
In high school, I only had one job. Well, I had two. I attempted to play the piano for my church, and
then I started working at McDonald's my junior year. While I was in college, I was fortunate enough,
for a person by the name of the late Lillian Jean Clark Robinson in 1993 gave me an opportunity here
at Lincoln Center. And so I worked at the Lincoln Center by the time, while I was at Blinn and at
Texas A&M University, and even when I came home from school at Mary Hardin-Baylor, I would work
here at the Lincoln Center on the weekends. So yes, that was my only job for until I left Lincoln
Center in 2000. Yes.
00:08:33 KM
So, circling back to your family, what was your family life like? Like, what was your home like?
00:08:39 CJ
Ohh, my home life had a lot of love. Unfortunately, my dad passed away in 1977 and so my mom
was a single mom. Man, she's still a single mom, raised 4 girls by herself. I'm the youngest out of
four. My mom was a phenomenal mom. You know, she's my “shero”. To be able to provide for us. We
never went without. I can never recall the time where we did not have love. We did not have, I mean,
Christmas was great. Our Christmas, our birthdays was awesome. She provided for us, you know,
she sacrificed a lot so we could have those things, you know. Even during the time, which I used to
get mad at my sisters, during the age of Jordache and Gloria Vanderbilt, you know, my sisters had all
of that. But I was a chunky kid. They didn't make those, you know, in pretty plus at JC Penney's and
Sears, you know. But she provided for us, you know, even to the point of all four of my– three of my
sisters, we are all college graduates. And at one time we were all in school at the same time. And
one of my other sisters, she didn't go to college, but she went to a business school and graduated
from there. So, she made sure that we got our education. She still let us go out and have fun and
socialize and do all that kind of stuƯ, but you're going to get your grades. You were going to get it.
Education. Yeah. My mom is my “shero”.
00:10:13 KM
Do you have any, like, family traditions around birthdays or holidays that you remember?
00:10:19 CJ
Ah, not that, well one. This is gonna sound funny. My mother really didn't cook cakes for us for
birthdays we would get the Pepperidge Farm coconut cakes. That was the tradition, you know. But
we were thankful for that, you know. She always made sure we had cake, and we had something,
you know, even to the point where two of my sisters’ birthdays is in August. They used to have
birthdays together, you know, and even my mom's birthday is in August, so it was always a big
celebration in in August for them, but she made sure we had something, you know. Even for
Valentine's Day, she always made sure we had candy or something. It never wasn't a holiday that
we did not celebrate. Of course, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, was a big thing at our house where
my relatives would come to our house and celebrate, and then we would go to our grandmother’s
house that lived in Caldwell. So, we would meet at our house during the day, and by evening time
we were in Caldwell at my grandmother's house. Even for Easter, it was just always a time to
fellowship with your relatives, you know. And, and my mom made it happen. I don't know how she
made it happen, but she made it happen.
00:11:35 KM
So, were your extended, was your extended family local or were they mostly in Caldwell?
00:11:41 CJ
No, my, well, my dad's side, they were local. Whereas my mom's side, they were kind of all spread
out. My grandmother lived in Caldwell, one of her brothers lived in Austin, and the other siblings
lived in Galveston, and so we would just spread out. But we would all meet up either at my mom's
house or we were in Caldwell at my grandmother’s house. Yeah. So yeah.
00:12:11 KM
So, would you consider your relationship with your siblings close?
00:12:14 CJ
Oh, yeah, definitely. Those were my first best friends. It was, we did a lot of things together, you
know. Even now, the three of us that lives here, we always doing things together. And I have one
sister that lives in Dallas right now. But us, that's here local, that's a everyday I'm calling my sisters,
you know. Or every day I'm, I got to talk to my mom or go up the street and and see her, you know. Or
if I'm not stopping by, at least call and say “Mama, hey, I'm not stopping by today”. But yeah, we are
very, very close because it was always just us. My mom and my sisters, yeah.
00:12:54 KM
What would– Is there anything that you and your siblings would do for fun, diƯerent than, like, you
playing with neighborhood kids?
00:13:01 CJ
Uh-uh. We, like I said, we all played together, you know. We had our board games, we had the jacks,
we, even when the Atari came out, and my mom got us an Atari, you know. We had our music, we
had our record player, you know, and I can still remember my having the Diana Ross album, as well
as the Michael Jackson “Thriller” album, you know. So, we always had music, well we would dance,
and, I mean, playing jump rope, doing jacks, board games. We always played together. And the
Family Feud game, could never forget Family Feud. Yeah, sorry.
00:13:44 KM
So, did your mom influence your career choice or your education at all?
00:13:50 CJ
Say that again?
00:13:51 KM
Did your mom influence your education or career path that you took?
00:13:54 CJ
No. I don't think my mom. And when I was growing up, I always said I wanted to be a doctor. And the
reason why I said that because my dad died of a heart attack at the age of 34 and I was just like, I
want to be a doctor so I can save people, you know, because my daddy shouldn't have died at 34.
Well, he made the wrong choices. He just didn't eat right, but that's a whole diƯerent subject. But
no, I was always to the point of being the helper. You know, when I was in high school, they told me
either I was going to be a social worker or a preacher. One of the two. And my mom worked for the
Texas Employment Commission for 27 years, so she was in the helping field. And no matter where
we went in Bryan-College Station, somebody would stop my mama because they knew her from the
employment oƯice and I was just like, that's amazing. And then even now, they'll come up to my
mom and say, “you remember, you helped me get this job”. And I was just like, that's amazing. And
so I always wanted to help people, no matter what it was. I just wanted to help people and so. I– I'm
a terrible student. I didn’t like to study. So, after I realized that, I realized being a doctor/physician
was not gonna work for me. And even trying, I said “Ok, well, let's try nursing”. Nursing didn't work
either, because back then, you still had to have a GPA of a 3.8 just to even be qualified for nursing
school. And so that's why I ended up at Mary Hardin-Baylor trying to get into that nursing program.
And I was like, oh, no, this is not going to work. And so, I said “Ok. So let's try something else. So
that's when I went into community health. And since Community health was so broad and generic,
you can go in diƯerent directions with that. And so I'm just like, as long as I'm helping somebody, I
feel like I'm, I'm serving my purpose. Yeah.
00:15:53 KM
Now, did you ever get married or have children of your own?
00:15:56 CJ
I did get married. I was a teen mom. I had my son at the age of 18, my senior year of high school,
and he is 33 now. And I am married currently to the Sam Walker. We've been married going on two
years, but we've been dating for almost 11 years. But yeah, I'm thankful and blessed to have Sam
Walker and my son in my life.
00:16:27 KM
How did you meet Sam?
00:16:28 CJ
Sam, I met Sam through one of his, his relatives. One of his cousins was my good friend at the time
and she introduced us and that's how we met. Yeah.
00:16:42 KM
Did you get married in College Station or somewhere else?
00:16:44 CJ
Uh-uh, got married here. Well, in Bryan, actually. Yeah. We got married in Bryan.
00:16:52 KM
And I'm assuming that your son was raised in College Station as well?
00:16:54 CJ
Yes, yes, he was born and raised here in College Station, went to school at, started at Rock Prairie,
and then he went to College Hills, Oakwood, A&M Consolidated Middle School, A&M Consolidated
[High School]. So, yep.
00:17:10 KM
A lot of the same schools that you went to.
00:17:11 CJ
Yes, yep.
00:17:12 KM
How do you see his childhood compared to yours? Like, is it diƯerent? Same?
00:17:23 CJ
I don't know if it was diƯerent per se. He had a lot of love, surrounded in love, because my mother
had all girls and he was the only boy. And so, of course, you know, he's the favorite. He's her favorite
grandson. He's he still her only grandson and he is still my sister's only nephew, you know. And so
he got a lot of love, you know. I tried to make sure that we went to small places, we always did
something in the summer and spring break, we traveled. One thing that, when you are teen mom,
you don't, you, you want everything to be normal per se. But my son is on the spectrum. And so
growing up with learning how to make sure he has everything that he needs and to be successful,
we had to all learn together, you know. about that.
But, no, my son was diagnosed with having autism and, and so he College Station ISD was really
good with providing resources for him, even for my family. And through his elementary he was in
both modified and general ed classes, and so that helped a lot. And even programs back then at
A&M really helped develop his social skills and so, even to the point now, where he drives, he has a
job, he has a car, he does the things that he likes to do, you know. At 33 he's still at home, but that's
a goal we're working on, is for him to live independently. But he didn't go without, you know, I would
make a sacrifice to make sure that he had all of his basic needs and wants taken care of. So
surrounded by a lot of love. Not just from his immediate family, but also our church family. Yep.
00:19:23 KM
So how would you describe the relationship between College Station and the surrounding
community?
00:19:29 CJ
I feel like, in the surrounding communities, College Station is the focal point. It’s one of the largest
cities out of Brazos Valley area. And so, College Station is the, basically the hub, to where you can
get all of your entertainment, your shopping, your Aggie time that you need for the football. It was
just the, the main Center for the surrounding area. Everybody would come to College Station, yeah.
00:20:05 KM
Growing up, did you see Bryan as a completely diƯerent city than College Station? Or was it the
same?
00:20:09 CJ
Oh yes. I mean, it's funny we when you think about it, broadcast station has always been especially
in the school setting, the rivalries or whatever for whatever reason. And it was always that invisible
line that, you know, we was just like “oh, you don't go over here” or “they don't come over here”.
Even today, some people that I know from Bryan, it's just like going out to South College Station. It's
just “no, I'm not going that far”. But it's always been a rivalry, but lately, you know, if College Station
– forgive me, College Station – if College Station did not have Texas A&M what would College Station
be? Whereas Bryan is a stand-alone, you know, all day, although they are still in the vicinity of Texas
A&M they don't focus on Texas A&M. You know, Bryan is a city that whatever Bryan does, but it's
not, A&M is not their focal point. So, yeah.
00:21:15 KM
How do you see the city of College Station interacting with A&M itself?
00:21:19 CJ
Well, I guess in order for us to thrive, they have to have a relationship. A&M have, what, 70,000
students? So, if College Station and Texas A&M do not, if they had a rocky relationship, then we
would be in a – I can’t even, I don't even want to think about what kind of environment it would be if
they did not have a great working relationship and respect for each other. They have to. It’s, they
don't have a choice because they both thrive oƯ of each other. One can't operate without the other.
00:22:02 KM
What challenges did you face, or the city face, while you were living here?
00:22:09 CJ
It's kind of like a hidden kind of thing. Sometimes I feel like College Station, they want to grow in
certain areas, but not in diversity, if that makes sense. I don't see College Station doing very much
for cultural activities. Even growing up it’s still, what? Less than 5% African Americans that live here
in College Station and I don't see College Station doing anything to bring more diversity to the city.
So that's very disturbing to me, as a lifelong resident here, and I think something needs to be done
about that. Yeah. I mean, just being honest, you know, and I feel like Lincoln Center is the only
cultural point of College Station. And it shouldn't be just Lincoln Center. It should be more. Just like
they have the tourism side of College Station, that tourism side needs to also include cultural
events and activities, yeah.
00:23:22 KM
What are the biggest changes that have occurred in College Station?
00:23:26 CJ
I guess the economic side, bringing more businesses here. Watching the Targets come, the HEB's
come, the Burlington’s, the Marshalls. You know, Costcos, you know the Mercedes dealership. I
mean, College Station has a Mercedes dealership – what? So just watching us grow in that area.
Bringing in the high-end stores, you know, all of the hotels that's popping up here in College Station.
And so the economic side of it, you know, but I wish they would, you know, like I said, bring some
diversity things here. Like College Station is behind. I don't know why we don't have a Conference
Center. I said it. I don't know why College Station does not have a Conference Center, you know,
and I'll go back to Waco has a Conference Center, Temple has a Conference Center, but College
Station doesn’t? So ok, College Station we need to come on up, ok.
00:24:32 KM
Do you feel like College Station today is the same College Station that you grew up in.
00:24:37 CJ
Oh no, not at all. I can remember when Holleman, you couldn't go across Holleman. The railroad
tracks you, you couldn't go across the railroad tracks. You had to go around to get to Holleman. I
can remember when, where Target is in College Station, it used to be a pasture with cows. I can
remember that, you know. Even where H-E-B is, what that was, and where Pooh’s Park used to be,
and Starbucks. Where Starbucks is, that's where my church, First United Methodist, used to be. I
can remember when Post Oak Mall came, because that was our spot in the 5th grade, you know?
And so just watching it grow, even S College Station, that was unheard of. You know, even to the
point I live in South College Station, I used to say, “oh, that is too far for me to live out there”. But
now I live out there. And even where the Century Square – University Drive – watching that area
grow, the growth has been tremendous. And even all of the, the housing developments that's
popping up in College Station. I never imagined that College Station would look like this. Our “big-
little city”. Yeah, yup.
00:25:58 KM
So, you mentioned Pooh’s Park. Were there any other businesses that you used to go to when you
were younger that don't exist anymore?
00:26:06 CJ
Ardene’s, I don't know if you remember. Ardene’s is used to be like service merchandise. You
remember service merchandise?
00:26:13 KM
No, I don’t.
00:26:14 CJ
Oh my God. Ardene’s was this cool store and where you can buy like your jewelry, all just diƯerent
little odds and ends. It was a really nice store that was at, at the mall. I think it was at Post Oak Mall
or maybe it was in Bryan, I can't remember. Um, yeah. But that was the best store to go to, just look
around and dream about little things that you want when you grow up, you know. I'm trying to think
about what else. Of course, we missed Gatti Town and that hadn't been too long ago that Gatti Town
left. I'm trying to think. What else? I miss. Well, that's in Bryan. Woolworth, I mean that's in Bryan,
but Woolworth used to be so cool to go to anyway. And downtown Bryan. I can't think of anything
else. Besides Pooh’s Park, because Pooh's Park had the skating rink, and it had batting cages, and it
had go karts.
00:27:22 KM
How big was Pooh’s Park?
00:27:23 CJ
Yeah, it was big. It was big. I mean, it was the best place to hang out, especially for young people
because your parents could drop you oƯ at Pooh's Park and go skating, you know. It was the best
place, you know. I’m trying to think about what else. I can’t think of anything else. My mind’s blank,
ok.
00:27:44 KM
Do you remember boys and girls being treated any diƯerent when you were younger? Or not playing
with each other as much?
00:27:53 CJ
I can’t think… Nah, we played a lot with each other. I don't think it was a diƯerence back then. Boys
and girls played with each other. But we still were separate, if that makes sense. The girls still
played with girls. We still did girly things, played with dolls. We played house. We, you know, played
in the kitchen, the little fake kitchen that they have, whereas boys still played with their Hot Wheels,
and little action figures, and ran around outside with sticks, and played ball, and all that kind of
stuƯ. But we still would come together and play, even though we would be separate at times,
because we couldn't play a kickball game unless it was some boys mixed in there with it, you know?
Even when we would do relay races, it was still boys mixed in there. Even when we all had bikes, we
would all ride bikes together. It wasn't really a diƯerence, you know I didn't start really noticing
gender changes until I got to maybe Oakwood and middle school that we started noticing the
diƯerence in genders, yeah.
00:29:08 KM
How do you think the growth of College Station has aƯected you and also the growth of the
population at A&M?
00:29:19 CJ
I can't say that it has aƯected me in any kind of way, besides you got to prepare ahead of time to
drive in College Station, you know. You can't just go to Bryan in 10 minutes, you know, so you have
to really, you know, prepare to go places now because you never know what the traƯic is going to be
like. And especially newcomers that can’t drive and have no idea where they're going. And then
even when the weather is, you know, slick, you still want to drive the speed limit and not know
where you're going. But anyway, that's another subject. Only thing is with the growth of College
Station, I felt like College Station kind of forgot about the residents that actually live here. I feel like
they College Station caters more to the students instead of the people that's not just temporary.
We're here and making sure that the people here have aƯordable housing. There's no way that a
person that makes a certain income should not have to be struggling to find a place to stay. You
know, that's just ridiculous to me. And I hate that they have allowed it to get out of hand and not do
something about it, you know? But that's the only struggle that I can see is not having aƯordable
housing and College Station not focusing on the residents, you know. Listening to the residents and
what do the residents want, what do the residents need, you know. A&M should take care of their
students, I'm sorry. You know, they should take care of their students. College Station needs to take
care of our people that's going to be here. This is our home, you know. That's the only challenge right
now is traƯic, for real. I don't even know, how else can they expand Texas Avenue? Can they, you
know? Even George Bush drive – can they expand it? I don't know. You know, I'm glad that they
finally finished 2818, but now what's the plan for Highway 6? So things like that, you know, what was
the Master plan 20 years ago? You know, I know it was a prediction that we were going to grow, but
maybe they realized we was going to grow at the rate that we were growing. I don’t know.
00:31:56 KM
What is the most memorable event or experience that you've had in College Station?
00:32:04 CJ
Hmmm.
00:32:04 KM
Like things that you've attended?
00:32:06 CJ
Ok, I can… Growing up, the Lincoln Center events were always memorable. From coming down
here to the MLK programs, to Juneteenth programs, Miss Jean would always have a band, a Blues
band or some kind of band, and the community would come out and support those events. Even to
the first time College Station hosted Games of Texas, and it was at the Olsen Field and we will go to
Olsen Field for the opening of Games of Texas and the cool fireworks show and the laser show that
they used to do back then. Even the fireworks that they used to do at Olsen Field on July 4th, you
know, they used to do that. And me and my son and my friends back then we would walk to Olsen
Field. That was some good memories. Even when, back in the day, Dairy Queen used to have free
tickets for the A&M football games, and so me and my friends, we would go to the football games.
Even when I was freshman, sophomore in high school, going to the football games. Those are some
good memories. And the first, this is another good memory, it was one time that Kyle Field had
hosted a HBCU football game. And that was the first time that I had ever been to an HBCU football
game and to watch the band.
00:33:50 KM
Yeah. Do you remember what teams were playing?
00:33:52 CJ
I do not, I do not remember. And I don't think College Station had ever seen that many black people,
I'm just being honest, ok. It was loads and loads of buses, charter buses, of black people in College
Station, you know, at Kyle Field. Amazing, I can't even. I had to be maybe a junior or senior in high
school when that happened.
00:34:21 KM
So what year would that have been?
00:34:23 CJ
They had to been like ‘90, ‘91, or ‘92 that that took place. I’ll never forget that. And then one other
time at Reed Arena, Kirk Franklin came with Billy Graham, or one of them. And it was a free concert
that Kirk Franklin did. Oh my gosh, I remember that too. And then one other time there was a reggae
festival at Wolf Pen.
00:34:56 KM
I think I've seen pictures of that, yeah.
00:34:58 CJ
Yes, the turnout wasn't great, but just the overall event was a good, great idea, but I think they just
picked a bad weekend, you know. And even, I don't even know if they still doing the World Fest
anymore. Are they still doing that? They used to host the World Fest at Wolf Pen in November, but
they stopped doing it. I don't know if they started going to the Expo Center, and I don't know. But
anyway, it was, they had some good festivals. I'm trying to think about what else. The track meets.
When, A&M track meets. Oh my gosh, best time ever growing up. Oh, and then when Texas A&M
used to have this step shows, the Greek Olympiad. Oh my gosh. Best time ever. I'm trying to think
about what else. I can't think of anything else. But it, you know, it'd be some events in spurts. You
know, just spurts. But again, it's, they do not bring too many cultural events to College Station. You
know, hopefully that will change soon. Yeah.
00:36:15 KM
What was the Games of Texas like?
00:36:18 CJ
Games of Texas was like the, through TAAF. What is it called? The Texas Amateur something
Federation [Texas Amateur Athletic Federation]. I should know this, as many times I worked with
them. But it was like the little, the young kids, State Olympics. Where they would compete. There’s
kids from all over the state of Texas, and they would come to College Station and compete. Ok.
Umm. And I mean from track and field to boxing, swimming, tennis, all sports that you can think of.
And so the opening ceremony is always the biggest part of the program because the kids get to
come out on the field and it's a big celebration for the kids that's competing. And so College Station
has hosted many years and it's coming back in 2025, ok. And so College Station and Brian is hosting
2025 and 2026. And so it's just a great celebration for kids that's in, that participate in athletics,
track, and I mean it's just a great time. And then it's economy boosting too because all of the hotels
are booked, all the restaurants are full, you know. But they would, I mean the opening ceremonies
used to be really great, you know. Really good.
00:37:46 KM
And was that hosted on A&M's campus or at city facilities?
00:37:49 CJ
No, back when I was growing up, high school, it was hosted at Olsen Field. I mean, it was called
Olsen Field then and it would be hosted there and but then later on they stopped doing it at Olsen
Field and just started hosting it at either a College Station, City of College Station facility or at one of
the school district’s facility. Yeah, so.
00:38:20 KM
Do you remember any slang terms or phrases that were unique to College Station residents?
00:38:26 CJ
I can't think of nothing. I mean, I mean. What? No.
00:38:35 KM
Ok.
00:38:36 CJ
No. Later on we became CSTAT. I hear CSTAT a lot.
00:38:45 KM
BCS.
00:38:46 CJ
Yeah, BCS. BCS and CSTAT. Yeah, other than that I can’t think of any slang.
00:38:54 KM
What national events do you remember and how do you feel that you and other city residents
reacted to them?
00:39:04 CJ
National events... Uh, I can recall. Ohh. When Bush Library opened. That was the, I can't even
describe like the number of people that were here in this area for that event, you know. And wanting
to be a part of that, you know. And even, unfortunately, when the Bushes died, being able to see
when Miss Barbara came down George Bush Drive, we were parked out for that. And for us [the
Lincoln Center] to have the relationship that we have with George Bush Drive, you know, I met her
twice, you know. You know, it was awesome. And like I said, the great relationship that we have with
Bush Library, we get to go up there quite a bit. And then when President Bush died, we were able to
take the kids up to Wellborn Road for them to watch the train go by with his casket in there and all
that kind of stuƯ. So I feel like that was a national event. And then all of his birthdays, you know?
And then, oh, we were excited when, what is it called? The volunteer program that they had when
Obama was president and Obama was in town, you know. We wanted to be able to see Obama. So
we went up the street and we were just like, ok, he's in the car. We got a chance to see the car, but
we didn’t get the chance to see him. So that was amazing. Oh, and unfortunately, 9/11, because it
was a game that weekend. And the red, white and blue that that game, that was something that was
unfortunately a sad situation, but how the community came together to grieve together in that
situation. I'm trying to think about what else. I'm trying to think of other national events. We
celebrated when Juneteenth became a national holiday because we enjoyed our day oƯ. But I’m
trying to think about what else. Uh, I don't know if it was a national event, but one time George Bush
Library hosted Condoleezza Rice and we got a chance to go see her. That was amazing, too. I can't
think of anything else, yeah.
00:41:56 KM
Do you have any interesting memories about each decade that you’ve lived here?
00:42:02 CJ
Mmm-mmm. 80s was OK. It's just like, it seems like in the 80s… Between 80… The 80s were really
good. ’80, ’84, ‘85 was really good. And then it seems like something happened with the economy
that, ’85, ’86, ’87, ’88, it seemed like there was a lot of struggle, you know. I don't know what it was,
but it seemed like it was a struggle, you know. And then the 90s were good. I can't complain about
the 90s. That's when I was in like, up in, I mean, high school, late junior/senior here. The 90's, the
music was on point, you know. We thought we was really styling and profiling back then in the 90s.
00:43:12 KM
Who would you listen to?
00:43:14 CJ
The 90s, it was always the, love me some Jodeci. Mary J. Blige was hot then. I'm trying to think about
all my 90s group, the Dru Hill. I mean 90s music, Boyz II Men. Yeah, the 90s was good. It didn't seem
so much like a struggle. Maybe the economy was something? It improved? I don't know. Bill Clinton
was in oƯice and Bill Clinton was the first time I voted in the election. And so that was exciting for
that. That was in ‘92. Yeah, that was my first election.
00:43:59 KM
Was that a big election?
00:44:01 CJ
Yeah. Yeah. That was a big election. Yup, ’92. And then that was the first time I got a, Miss Lillian
Jean Clark Robinson, she ran for school board that year and I got a chance to vote for her. So that
was good. Umm. But the 90s were ok, the economy was good, and it seemed like only time, when
we went into 2000, when we went through that little financial crisis. Would have had to have been
’07, ’08, ’09, that time frame, when we had to scale back a lot of our programs and we even had to
shut down our summer program early because of the budget or something. We had to scale
everything down back then. But we still had our jobs, we just had to cut back on programs and
budgeting and stuƯ. And then. Yeah. I can’t… I'm a believer, and so no matter what's going on,
God's going to take care of us. I mean, that's the way I look at it. You got to have faith that everything
is going to work itself out. But there's no, I can't remember. The only thing that's been, when the
climate changed with all of the police brutality, that’s when I feel like things changed a lot. The
division in cultures.
00:45:42 KM
When would you pinpoint that?
00:45:46 CJ
Had to been soon as Obama took oƯice. The mask came oƯ on people. So I figure in ’08, ‘09 that's
when the climate changed, when cultural diƯerence and then the lack of respect for cultural
diƯerence really sprouted. Like I said, it was hidden agenda, so I’m going to put it like that. And the
police brutality, the change, I mean, the climate was hot, you know. And trying to teach kids about
respect and respecting diƯerences. And then when they asked me questions about
“you want me to respect them, but they don't respect me?” And I was like, you can't act like them.
You had to be better than everybody else. That's what I can say. The 2000s was kind of hot. The
climate was hot, you know.
00:46:56 KM
Do you feel like that was nationally, or locally, or…?
00:46:59 CJ
Oh yeah, no, it was national. And then especially after 9/11, it really was. The climate was hot. You
know, people not respecting people, religions. People thinking they better than other people
because of, you know, the skin tone or whatever. And I think it really, something happened 9/11.
And then when Obama became oƯice, in oƯice, it really sprouted. And then it's still hot, you know.
And praying it gets better, you know. Just to respect diƯerences, show kindness. It's ok to agree to
disagree, you know. Yeah.
00:48:03 KM
What decade do you think College Station changed the most?
00:48:06 CJ
Say that again?
00:48:07 KM
Is there a certain decade that you think College Station changed the most? Or like grew the most?
00:48:17 CJ
Had to been... I would say… It started really, really, really growing maybe ’05, ’06, ’07? 2010? For
some reason 2010 sticks out to me. Like we just started, shoo. All of a sudden, all these people are
here. The school district started building all these schools, you know. So maybe that 2010? Maybe,
for some reason? Yeah. Yeah, I think it was like the 2010 era. Something happened in 2010, I don't
know what, but it just seemed like the school district was really building schools. It seemed like
every two years a new school was popping up. And more stores was popping up in College Station.
Subdivisions, popping up, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:22 KM
Was Wellborn part of College Station already when you were little?
00:49:27 CJ
No. Wellborn was just Wellborn, it wasn't annexed then, and I – you know what, the sad part about
it? I don't remember going to Wellborn. I don't. I don't remember going there.
00:49:42 KM
Do you remember there being any sort of conversation around the annexation of it, or did it just
happen?
00:49:46 CJ
It just happened. I can recall, of course, disgruntled Wellborn residents, you know. But in my mind,
I'm like, “they don't have anything to do with me.” Unfortunately, I'm sorry, it just didn't, it didn't faze
me because I didn't have land in Wellborn, you know. I – my family is not from Wellborn, you know.
So, it was just like they don't have nothing to do with me. But I felt bad for the people that had
bought land in Wellborn thinking that “my property tax taxes was just going to be county taxes,
right?” And now I have county and city and school district, you know. So I can understand them
being disgruntled. When you purchase your house, now you understand why they was upset.
00:50:45 KM
So how did the A&M campus culture impact you when you were not a student there?
00:50:53 CJ
When I was not a student. I did, I can't say that I did a lot of activities on campus. Back then we, my
experience on campus was Kyle Field and the MSC. Those were our two favorite places because
College Station, A&M Consolidated didn't have a football field. So we played at Kyle Field. All of our
home games were played at Kyle Field until they built a stadium. And so from the time I was in 5th
grade, 5th grade/6th grade, I would go to the football games with my sisters. And, but we would
leave Kyle Field and go across the street to MSC. And my sister will tell me “as long as you’re back
here by third quarter you’re fine.” And so we hung out a lot at the MSC, that was the coolest place,
you know. Because you could walk around, and go upstairs, and go to the little museums, and then
they had the bowling alley, they had food, they had arcade. So, it was cool, you know. And Kyle
Field, I loved Kyle Field. I loved marching on Kyle Field. That was just the greatest thing ever. And
then our band would play Noble Men of Kyle. What? You know, those are good times, you know. But
then I didn't realize, until I became a student, that I didn’t like A&M. Yeah, so yeah.
00:52:29 KM
So.. What, like, what made your impression change between being in high school and being a
student there?
00:52:41 CJ
When you’re younger, you don't really pick up on the stares, or you're not paying attention to the
comments that they're saying to you. Like, “why are you here?” Like I didn't, wasn't supposed to be
on the campus, you know? When you're little, in 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, so I didn't really pick up on
that until I got to campus. I was a student, and I had to hear the comments, and I had to deal with
the stares, and I had to deal with the people mean mugging me like I'm not supposed to be on this
campus, like I didn't have a right to an education at Texas A&M University. And so, especially on
West Campus, I couldn't stand with West Campus. I was glad, I couldn't stand it over there. And so I
was glad when I went back over to the main campus where my College of Education and the Health
Department was. And at that time, we was like, literally, right under Kyle Field. So I was glad that I
was back over there. I did not like West Campus, you know, I just. No. And I'm like, this is, this is ’95.
’95, ’96, ’97, ’98. And I'm like we should have overcame by now. You know, I'm not going anywhere.
We're not going nowhere, you know, deal with it, you know. And just respect the diƯerences, you
know. I'm here for the same thing that you’re here for, it’s the education and to be able to provide for
my family. But it was it was kind of challenging, because it's still not very many students at Texas
A&M, black students at Texas A&M, and so it's still very challenging for those students today with
the cultural diƯerences, you know. Just respect people, you know. And I always use this analogy –if
we're in a car wreck and you need some blood, are you gonna ask for some black blood, or you
gonna ask for some white blood, or some Hispanic blood? At that time, it shouldn't even matter.
You just want to live, right? You don't know the diƯerence between the bloods, right? Besides A, B,
O, positive, or negative, that's all you care about, right?
00:54:51 KM
Blood is red.
00:54:52 CJ
Blood is red, right? So, it was just, it was, it was a challenge for me. Because now I could pick up on
it, you know.
00:54:59 KM
Do you feel like those sentiments existed within the College Station community as well, or was it
mostly on campus?
00:55:05 CJ
Oh yeah. No, no, no. As I got older, you picked up on it. And as a young person, you don't really pay
attention to that, you know. But like I said, as you get older, you start picking up on the cues and,
you know, people looking at you. You're going to Dillard's and they following you because they think
you're going to steal something, you know. Those kinds of things. I would hear my mom talk about it,
but I'd never experienced it, you know. And I've experienced – my first time being called the N-word
when I was in the 6th grade from a boy. Yeah. And so you pick up on things and I think that's
probably what drove me to start the Ebony and Ivory Club, because everybody didn't feel like that,
you know. And so you mix with those that respected each other. You know, even today I mix with
people that respect me as Cheletia, you know. I'm human, you know. I'm a woman, I'm black, you
know. And those are things that I can't change. And I'm proud of who I am. And so people just need
to learn to respect each other, you know. Yeah.
00:56:20 KM
So what was… When you started Ebony and Ivory, what did you – what was your, like, purpose
statement for the organization or mission statement?
00:56:28 CJ
I guess it was, you know, back then – I meant to, I'm gonna bring the little article – I think the whole
purpose was for us to just be unified, you know. And respect each other, you know. And it may be
because, did the Ebony and Ivory song by Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney [Ebony and Ivory by
Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder], did that come out then?
00:56:46 KM
I have no clue.
00:56:47 CJ
I'm gonna have to look it up, but that might have been it too. But just being unified unity respecting
each other, you know, just for us to be in harmony with each other and respect diƯerences. It's ok if
we, I don't, you don't have to like greens because I like collard greens. You know what I'm saying?
But just respect the diƯerences, and it's ok. And I think, now as I get older, we all know that hate is
taught. Because were in elementary school, it didn't matter what color we were. We all just wanted
to play. We just wanted to play with each other at South Knoll, play dodgeball together and play on
that super huge playground that we had at South Knoll back in the day. We didn't care about color.
We just, you know. We just wanted to have fun with each other.
00:57:44 KM
So when you moved to College Station, it was only like a few years prior that they desegregated,
correct?
00:57:54 CJ
That's a good question, because I was going to an impression that segregation was supposed to end
in ’65 – ’64, ’65 – under the Board of Education. I don't know if necessarily that happened in Bryan –
College station. I don't know, you know. I don’t know, that's a good question.
00:58:16 KM
Did you ever notice there being, like, a segregation of community still? Like, did African Americans
still stick to their own, like, neighborhoods or anything?
00:58:27 CJ
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. We still did that because, even in College Station, you still have your
pockets of neighborhoods that were predominantly African American. Like, this area [around
Lincoln Center] was predominantly African Americans. The area over there by College Hills, it’s
called College Hills. The Tarrow, that was primarily African American. And then Richards and
Sterling Street, those were primarily African American people. And so College Station had their
pockets, that's what I call it, of people. Um, yeah.
00:59:09 KM
So back to A&M, where did you most often go on campus when you were a student there?
00:59:17 CJ
Uh, most of my classes, like I said, was at READ. That's what it was called, READ. It was there
because I was a health major, so all of our classes was there. So I stayed primarily there.
Unfortunately, I was a terrible student, sorry. If I had to walk across campus, I wasn't going, I'm
sorry. Don't let it rain, because I definitely wasn't going. But that's where all my, the majority of my
classes, were at READ. Um, yeah. Except for one time, we was at the, I had a class at the
Meteorology building. I had a class at Francis, had a class there. And then I had classes at Blocker.
Yeah, but other than, oh, yeah, it was Blocker. And then the engineering building, the one next to
Blocker, but now they changed it. They have remodeled it now.
01:00:11 KM
Zachary?
01:00:12 CJ
Yes, Zachary. Exactly. Yeah.
01:00:16 KM
So you were A&M, for one year or two years?
01:00:19 CJ
Mm-mmm, three. I transferred. I transferred in ‘95. And then when I transferred that year, my life
was shambles, because my son had asthma really bad and my grandmother was having a brain
tumor removed to where she was in surgery for almost 18 hours, and my uncle, all three of them
were at St. Joseph's [hospital] at the same time that spring of ‘95. I couldn't do it. And so my advisor,
Miss Ashley, she said instead of just using all your Q-drops, just go ahead and withdraw from the
semester and that's what I did. And so I took the spring semester oƯ and returned the following fall,
and so I finished in ‘98. Yeah. So I was at A&M for like 3 years. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:21 KM
Was it – or how was, how did you see your experience at A&M be diƯerent from your peers that
didn't have kids? Like, did that impact your experience at all?
01:01:34 CJ
Well, as I would tell people, my time at A&M, I hung out with one person. That is my friend. Still my
friend today after over 20 years, we still communicate with each other because we were all, both in
the same, we both had the same major and so we just connected with each other. When I was at
A&M, I didn't have time to hang out and socialize because I had to work, and I had to take care of my
child. So that made a diƯerence. And then it also makes a diƯerence when you are a transfer,
because everybody else had already met each other because they came in as freshmen or they had
the same, they lived in the same dorm and all that kind of stuƯ. I didn't have that experience, and I
was not going to T Camp, I didn't do all that.
01:02:25 KM
You’re from here.
01:02:26 CJ
Right. And so my experience was diƯerent, and all the things that those students that just came to
Texas A&M, they were experiencing things for the first time. But growing up, I experienced the
football game, I experienced the campus parties, I experienced the step shows, I experienced
SBLSC, all while I was in high school. So once I got to A&M, I'm like, already done it. I don't have
time to do it. Yeah, you know, so it was a, it was a diƯerence. And then plus I was a lot older. I felt
like I was older than them. Yeah. Because by the time I transferred to A&M, I had already had almost
three years of college before everybody else. They're young to me, so it was it was diƯerent. But this
my person, my friend, like I said, we’re still cool today. We still talk, we still, she come to College
Station or I go to Dallas to visit her. My one friend from A&M.
01:03:33 KM
What class did y’all meet in?
01:03:35 CJ
It was our first community health class, the first the basics of community health and we, she
graduated summer of ’98 and I graduated fall of ‘98. Ain’t that something?
01:03:56 KM
Friends since day one.
01:03:57 CJ
Mm-hmm.
01:04:03 KM
Do you remember any of your faculty? Like, do any of them stand out to you, or do you still have a
relationship with any of them?
01:04:11 CJ
Not really. Only one, I'm trying to remember his name. He was just real. I mean, he kept it real with
me. And I had him for almost 2, almost three classes in the community health. And he said “you are
a terrible student” and I'm like, “I know.” But he said, “I know you’re a hard worker” and I respected
what he was telling me. Because, like I said, my focus at that time, I just wanted to get out. I was
getting tired of school and plus, like I said, my son at the time, he had asthma real bad. He was in
and out the hospital and um, but he was, he was a good professor. He was a real good professor.
And then Miss Ashley, who was my advisor. I have a lot of respect for her because she knew I was
getting tired and so she, all my, the majority of my credits from A&M and Mary Hardin-Baylor
transferred over to where I was able to go ahead and graduate because she was like, “I know you’re
getting tired.” She, she helped me out. So, Miss Ashley. Yeah. So she was, she was good. She was
real good. But I can't think of anybody else. I can't remember their names. I remember their faces,
Dr. Broussard, because I see Dr. Albert Broussard all the time and I'm embarrassed to sometimes to
see him because I didn't do too well in his class but.
01:05:41 KM
But look where you are now.
01:05:42 CJ
I know.
01:05:44 KM
So what made you want to pursue a master’s degree?
01:05:50 CJ
Because when I left Lincoln Center, I had started working for Twin City mission, the Star program. It
was a Youth and Family Services to where we oƯered short term intervention for youth ages 0-17
and I didn't feel comfortable with just a bachelor's degree providing short term intervention. And
then one of my coworkers, she was telling me about the program that she was in at Prairie View, and
she said “Cheletia, I go to class on the weekends”, I said “What?” And so I was like, I could do that.
And so I felt more comfortable being able to serve with more credentials and more initials behind
my name. And so I pursued my master’s in counseling. And at that time I thought I wanted to go all
the way to become a licensed professional counselor. But then, when the position, the full-time
position, opened back up at the Lincoln Center, the direction of my career changed. And so I kind of
stopped pursuing becoming a licensed professional counselor. I still finished a degree, but I didn't
complete the process of becoming a licensed professional counselor. But now I'm back in that
phase to where I'm back in school trying to get all the credentials I need to start the process to
become a licensed professional counselor. So that's how I end up working on my master’s degree.
01:07:16 KM
So I saw in your oƯice that you were part of a sorority. When did you join that?
01:07:24 CJ
In 2005.
01:07:26 KM
So after college and everything
01:07:28 CJ
Yeah. I joined the grad chapter of the Delta Sigma Theta sorority incorporated, Brazos Valley area
alumnae chapter. I pledged spring of 2005. And now I am the chapter president.
01:07:45 KM
Wow.
01:07:46 CJ
Yes. My second time around as chapter president. Yes, great experience. I love my sorority. I love
the people that my, my local, my local chapter members. I love my people. I love the organization. I
love what the organization stand for. We are a service-oriented organization. We are about the
community, we're about our people, and trying to make a diƯerence for the people, yeah.
01:08:15 KM
So does your sorority have student chapters, or is it…? Ok.
01:08:19 CJ
Oh, yeah, yeah. We have both undergrad and grad chapters, and there is a chapter on Texas A&M
University, Omicron Omega, and we both, we work together hand in hand. Yeah. But when I was at
A&M, because at that time you had to have a 2.5 GPA to be a part of it, and I just did not have the
GPA nor the time to be trying to pledge a sorority. And so there’s a time, time and a season, to do
things. And so I was very fortunate that I got accepted into the organization in 2005.
01:08:58 KM
So what typical things do you do with that?
01:09:02 CJ
We do service programs, like we have our big program that's coming up is our annual MLK Freedom
Walk. And so this would be our 29th annual Freedom Walk. That's going to take place in January.
Um, we do, we have educational programs for girls, for one that's called Delta Academy, that's for
11- to 14-year-old. Well, we emphasize nontraditional careers and focus on self-awareness and
then we have one for, called Delta GEMS, and that's for 14- to 18-year-olds to where we start
prepping them for college. And then we have a program for boys that's called EMBODI where we
engage with them in the same manner that we do with the girls. Political awareness and
involvement, social action, this past year we did a lot of social action activities, registering people
to vote, voters’ education, helping the seniors with their application for mail-in ballots, and a lot of
social action activities. We participate in Juneteenth. Whatever the Community needs from us,
that's what we do. A lot of service to, like, I know we'll be participating in the Food for Families, the
KBTX, and the program that the Bryan ISD have, we’ll be doing that. We also do scholarships for kids
in our service area. We cover Brazos Valley, 7 county area. I'm trying to think about what else we do.
We have fun. We have a program that's called Founders’ Day. We just do a lot of the community. I
can't think – there’s so much to talk about.
01:10:50 KM
Sounds like y’all do a lot.
01:10:51 CJ
We do, we do. We do a lot in the community, but that's what we that's what it's about. It's about
service. Service, scholarship, and sisterhood.
01:11:01 KM
Thank you for your time today.
01:11:01 CJ
Yeah!