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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCampus Kids, Oral History taken Feb. 18, 1998.18 February 1997 Oral History Moderator: Mary Lay Notetaker: Tara Burke Camcord Operator: Meredith Cooper Interviewees: Knox Walker, Frank Brown, Kitty Brown, Mary Leland Moderator -- Start over here with Mary, I'd like you to introduce yourself; just tell us a little about you to begin with. Okay, just tell us about yourself Mary. ML -- Well I'm turning to 70 this year and I taught high school for thirty years at A &M Consolidated, where I graduated from in 1944. And, uh, I taught Algebra II and Geometry, and now I'm retired. I'm teaching violin and viola, which I majored in, in college and I am also tutoring math and ... Moderator -- Where did you go to college? ML -- I graduated from Baylor in '49. When I graduated I stayed out a year -- went to New York with my dad and mother because I was only 16 and they thought I shouldn't go to college when I was 16, so I went to New York with them and then I came back...went two years to Sophie Newcomb in New Orleans and then went to Baylor the rest of the time. Moderator -- It's very interesting, thank you Mary -- Kitty? KB -- I'm Kitty Brown & I'm married to a campus kid. Frank was born on campus. I was a teacher at Consolidated uh I was a first middle school counselor - my office was is right over there when I taught in this building and the wooden building behind in the 50s and 60s before we moved to Richardson. And uh he came back here after the war for Frank to go back to school because his parents lived here and they had a house we could live in. We couldn't find anything in Houston, so we came back here and just stayed till our children were grown so they all graduated from A &M Consolidated like their dad. Moderator -- Thank you that's very interesting too. All right Frank. FB -- Well, I'm Frank Brown and I was born in a college house in 1921 on Ireland Street, and the side of that house is where the A &M press is now. My father was the electrician for the college and the fire chief, and I was raised on the campus and went to the A &M Consolidated school all the way, but I didn't graduate from A &M; I've got about two years, but I was here when it was real rudimentary; there wasn't much here when I was young. Fact is, my recollection is the only paved street in town was the Military Walk. Moderator -- Really? FB -- Because the students marched back and forth to eat. But that's, uh, essentially where I came from. Moderator -- That's very interesting. Knox tell us about you. KW -- I'm Knox Walker. My father, returned to Texas A &M after World War I, completed his degree in Civil Engineering, farmed for a year, and in 1920 was hired as civil engineer for the Branch Colleges of Texas A &M. My mother came from Galveston in 1922, taking a job at the old bookstore, the Exchange Sore in the New Main Building (later the Academic Building). They married in 1926, rented a house on the campus and I was born in 1927 -not on campus but in the old Oliver Hospital in Bryan (now St. Joseph's). The Walder house was on Lubbock Street on the campus, now Joe Routt, the street just south of the MSC. At the east end of Lubbock street, a grade school had been built, A &M Consolidated about 1922, and I started there in 1934. I graduated from Consolidated in 1945, was drated by the Army. Later I attended Texas A &M and in 1953 took a job with the Entomology Department of A &M. I retired as a professor about 5 years ago. Now let me tell you about the father of the man who sits next to me. Frank Brown's dad was an electrician, probably the most remarkable and baluable electrician that ever plied his trade. He was for many years, the electrician on the Texas A &M Campus. After everyone was kicked off the campus from campus housing in 1940, Frank Brown Sr. remained; he stayed on during the war, on into the early fifties. Deans went and Heads of Departments went, but the college electrician stayed on. Just too damned important. FB -- '53. He was the last family off the campus. KW -- (laughs) last family; this is amazing they got rid of the deans and everybody else, but not the campus electrician. He was so vital to making this place work. Kind of tells you about the times. KB -- He had fifty yard line passes to all the football games because he was required to be there, and when mom got tired of going to them I got to go with him. I went to all the A &M games on the fifty yard line seats all those years. KB -- He was a volunteer fire chief... Moderator -- Well where was the house Frank, where was your house located. You may have told me... FB -- Well, we had 3 houses the house that I was born in was on Ireland Street where the A &M press building is now. Then we lived in what they call the Pear Orchard which was almost across the street for all practical purposes from the campus theater called Farm Highway 60 just before Wellborn road there. And then uh after I left home they moved him down into a house and at the time I think it was called the Hedges House which is where the basketball - -G. Rollie White -- is now - it was right there on the corner. KW -- Lubbock and Houston, that's where is was. FB -- And that was the last one left on campus. Moderator -- And now those houses have been relocated in College Station? I know some have. FB -- I'm sure they have. Our first house went out to the hog farm and, uh, was still property. I wasn't here, and I can't tell you who bought those house. Moderator -- None of your houses were relocated? KW -- Yes ours was; its still extant off of F &B and Agronomy Road; its offset behind. I can take you over and show it, I can't tell you where it is exactly. Moderator -- Does it have a historical marker on it? KW -- No, no, no FB -- No it didn't matter. ML -- Everybody's house that was moved off the campus was moved out there, but we saw it; it used to be there where the west bypass is, but I think it's been moved further out. Moderator -- It would be interesting to get pictures of those houses. KW -- Our house is still there. The veterinary people have it. FB -- These were, these were non insulated wooden frame houses. ML -- Mine was originally the railroad station. You know, it was over there and they evidently moved it, because when we went up in the attic when we got ready to move, I found this old thing of all the people that signed for the boxes and things like that that came in the railroad station. It was the original railroad. KW -- The house that you all lived in? ML -- The house that we lived in on Houston Street. Moderator -- That's what I really wanted to get to. What were those houses like, you know what were they like? ML -- Well, they had termites, I'll tell you that. KW -- About after the turn, or before the turn of the century they had built a number of rather prestigious big houses they were called Queen Ann houses like the Bolton House. ML -- The Bolton House was big KW -- And then sometime later about WWI, they built New England bungalow types which was where the Walkers lived. They where much simpler houses where you went in the front door and you had a hall that went down. You had some bedrooms on one side, and on the other side you had the kitchen and the dining room and so forth. By the 1930s they quit building these houses and I can only remember one more being built when I was a kid in the mid 1930s, but the major construction occurred before 1930. ML -- Well, uh, I remember our house was originally...it had a, you know, the cut out a whole wall and made a big living room so there was two rooms. I guess that's the way the railroad station was and they built on the two rooms that were my brother and my bedroom and also a back porch. They built that on after they moved in and so it was just a two room affair and I guess to begin with or maybe a three room because the kitchen was originally there, but those other rooms like my bedroom and the other bedroom they were added on. Moderator -- Well, I'm curious to know about the kitchen, you know I love kitchens, what were the kitchens like. Where they.... ML -- Pretty huge... It was huge and I wouldn't say that is was that modern, I remember having ice; we had to take the ice in and the ice out. Moderator -- Oh, so you had ice; you had an ice man come? FB -- Oh yes ML -- Yes FB -- Until after WWII; Moderator -- And what about what you did you cook on? KW -- Many had kerosene stoves. Moderator -- Well what did you cook on -- Gas? ML -- Gas stove. FB -- Well, not in our first house because the gas wasn't on the campus at that time. I helped my father put gas in the one down on Ireland Street and my mother cooked on a coal stove. Moderator -- Coal; not wood but coal? FB -- Well uh, you had to have wood to start the coal but primarily coal and uh then uh we didn't have hot water you know except... ML -- Our heating was with the gas stove the little gas stove you know... Moderator -- That what I was going to ask... ML -- And we had a fireplace, you know, you could...I remember doing my homework by the fireplace...space heaters. KW -- Bill Scoates can tell you some of this, he can verify in a little more detail, but there wasn't any natural gas on the campus until 1929 and that was when I was about 2 years old. And prior to that my folks were living there and they had a kerosene cooking stove. The house was heated with the fireplace where they had a coal grate, and then they had some kind of contraption that I've never seen, they had a hot water heater where you built a little coal fire and you could heat up. Now I've never seen that, that's just what my mother told me. I don't remember these things but it was 1929 that they brought in natural gas. They changed the whole process and during the next two years we found out all about these new, electric refrigerators. And I remember that was about 1931 and 1932 and 1933 people began to buy those things. Prior to that six days a week this ice man came, dripping all this water off his clothes, and on my back porch was a great big piece of ice and they put it in the refrigerator there. But about 1932, '33 that began to change and people began to buy the GE's and the Westinghouse's. Westinghouse's had this big freezing unit that was on top. It was a big circular thing with fans on it. Moderator -- Oh I've seen pictures of that. KW -- And that didn't work to good, and the next year the company quit selling that type. ML -- They each had to little things right underneath that big thing that held the ice tray because I remember trying to get them out and they always stuck. KW -- In the early years the gas pressure was an uncertain benefit. Occasionally they would have to close down the consolidated school because they didn't have enough gas pressure to the school or college. Moderator Oh my. ML -- And the kids always put, what they did, they put it in rubber. KW -- I'm sure they did. ML -- And it stunk to high heaven and I'll never forget that. The worst smell in the world! Moderator -- I bet that was fun. FB -- I have some of those ice cards that you used to put in the window. Moderator -- Oh that you turn? FB -- Yea - 25, 50, 75, 100. I got to sell ice machines and I had those as a part of my presentation I remember 'em from College Station. Moderator -- My goodness; well what was the rest of -- we talked about the kitchen -- what was the rest of the furniture like in the house you know the living room, what was that like? ML -- Oh my, well let's see, we had a one of those rag rugs that was, you know, they were oval and ... Moderator -- That you made? ML -- Yes. Moderator - Handmade? ML -- It was, yea, I guess. I don't know if they were handmade or not, but remember ... FB -- But all that was personal. I mean, none of it came with the house. Moderator -- That's what...that's what I was really wanting to know, nothing, it was all yours then? FB -- Yea. KW -- We paid $13 a month to rent our house on campus. Moderator -- Okay you had to rent then? KW -- Yes, you had to rent. ML -- I rented - I guess they paid about thirty dollars a month. KW -- My mother used to claim to have some inside information that some of the older people like Dr. Frapps paid no rent. ML -- Oh yea. KW -- Yes, he got his house free ... that was part of the deal, but I don't know. Moderator -- Uh, well how did they decide who lived on campus? Did everybody live on campus? KW -- No, not everybody. FB -- Everybody that was salaried did, I think, essentially because at that point in time there wasn't any College Hills or College Park or Oakwood or anything, I mean ... Moderator -- So, if you were employed by the university basically... FB -- That's right so they had, they even had bachelor officer quarters. KW -- My father lived there. FB -- Yea. Moderator -- Before he married? FB -- And they had some apartment buildings for some of the people that were a little bit further down the line. Uh, you had to live here if you were going to work here. Moderator -- Well, I've got a question here that I...I don't know what it means, but I'm sure you do. What was quality row? ML -- I have no idea. FB -- Uh, that was where most of the deans were, and it was, uh, it was a house that the Bolton house...the Bolton house sat on that street and it was the whole string down through there. ML -- They were the larger houses. Moderator -- So, that was the more important people? FB -- The bigger houses and, uh, yea. KW -- Yea, they planted the first trees there. ML -- Silvy, Dr. Silvy lived on that street and uh... KW -- And Dr. Winkler. This was Throckmorton street. FB -- He was at the other end of it from Bolton across the street. ML -- Right and the Thomas's lived on that street and... KW -- Extension directors. ML -- Conners, Nancy Conner, let's see the Siivy's, uh, Ball's, Puryear... KW -- Dean Puryear. Moderator -- Those are all familiar names? KW -- Yea. Moderator -- Important names? FB -- There was another name for a street Military Row because that's where all the military officers... Moderator -- Lived on the street, uh -huh? FB -- And they lived from the Cashion House on down to the end of that street. That's where the college hospital was, across the street from it. ML -- Well, I you know when you were coming around out I don't know where Dean Shepherdson lived cause I thought... KW -- He lived over there where the other, a Doctor, a... ML -- Marsh? KW -- No, a veterinarian, a man who really was the father of vet medicine, Dr. Mark Francis. ML -- Dr. Francis? KW -- No, after Dr. Francis dies. Sherperdson moved, I think, in that house. ML -- It was a big -wig house and it had hogs and I used to go over there with my folks and I remember that now. Moderator -- Oh, I wish I could have seen it. KW -- Long before they planted live oaks all over the campus, the kind you see now, they experimented with red oaks and white oaks, all along Throckmorton street you would see these. All of those are gone today. MIL -- Dean Kyle lived over there. FB -- It was over there on that circular drive that went out to the Westgate. Moderator -- Well now did you all, were you all the rich people then cause you lived on campus? ML -- No. Moderator -- Did you have maids and all that kind of stuff? MIL -- We had a maid. Every body had a maid back in those days because... KW -- There were maid's quarters on about half of those houses. Moderator -- Really? KW -- Right with plumbing and everything ML -- It had a bedroom attached to the garage in the back. FB -- At our house down in Pear Orchard we... KW -- Servants quarters is what they called them. Moderator -- Oh, how wonderful. FB -- But at the time we had an Aggie living in ours. Moderator -- Well that's, that's ... ML -- I never did like our maid, she was mean to me. Moderator -- Oh! KB -- Some of the girls, some of the young women who live out in the country like out at Snook south of town would come in to go to school or after they finished high school before they got married and they would work. And the Browns had somebody because Frank's grandmother lived with them and needed help and so she lived in that room back there. Moderator -- So there was a place for them? KB -- Yea. Moderator -- Well that's great. ML -- The maid that worked for us, she lived over there on the south side of town and I don't know what street she lived on, but she had a house and ah she and her husband split up, they had a divorce and they cut the house in two. Do you remember? KW -- Yea, Robert Ripley wrote that thing up. "Believe it or not." ML -- They couldn't agree so they cut it right down the middle. My dad helped her decide that that's what she was going to do. KW -- Let me interject a little bit of earthy humor: there used to be these stories about the ice man and how a lady might take advantage of his presence, but anybody that wrote...that conceived that kind of relationship never looked at the kind of people that delivered ice. They were the scruffiest, dirtiest, nastiest looking...they would come in there...I can see that guy coming with that big piece of ice and I can't imagine any woman taking a shine to that kind of a guy! FB -- His name was Vic. KW -- I was speaking of ice men in general, not anybody in particular. FB -- Vic something. FB -- Yea. Moderator -- Ah, another question I have here is something they want to know who lived on either side of your house? ML -- Oh yea the Carpers lived on, let's see, if I was facing Houston Street, the Carpers lived on the left and the Sinkys originally lived next door and then the Andersons, Frank Anderson moved in next door to us, so it was the two of them and then the Gammos were on the corner and the Riches were across the street and Mr. Hedges was on the corner and around the corner was the Walkers. They were across the street right behind Gion Hall and the... KW -- Hughes... ML -- Well, the Hughes's were on the corner because you were in the middle right behind the Gion Hall, and then the William's were there, and then the Bolton's, and then the Frap's, right? KW -- Cross next to us, yes. Moderator -- Now, you all knew each other? ML -- Oh yea. KW -- Right. She nearly killed me! ML -- I thought I killed him. We were playing baseball and slugged my bat and I hit him and I let go I was so frightened I thought I had killed him. He has this big huge bump on his head...oh my goodness. Moderator -- But, he survived. So, basically the same neighbors around you Frank, oh, Knox, sorry. KW -- Yeah the same people in the 1930's and in he 1920's I don't know what it was like. ML -- We all played together. I used to like playing on the grapevines across the street. You remember playing on the grapevines? KW -- Yeah sure. ML -- And we would then climb on those grapevine and through the china berries. I remember climbing the roof of my house and almost sliding off. Moderator -- Well, they've got a question here it says: describe around your house the goathead stickers. FB -- Oh yea, they were kind of bad sticker burr. Moderator -- Ah, just those old stickers? KW -- No, no they were not native plants that was an introduced plant that was brought here, an Asian plant. I believe the correct name is puncturavine. KB -- Oh, okay I'm thinking about grass burrs. KW -- No, it's not a grass burr. Moderator -- We don't have them anymore, do we? KW -- Well, recently they've introduced an insect parasite that feeds on those things. Moderator -- Oh really? KW -- It's helped. FB -- I don't even know what your talking about. ML -- Me neither. Moderator -- Well, it says push mowers. ML -- Oh yea, we had push mowers. Moderator -- We didn't have electric or gasoline lawn mowers back in those days? FB -- No. KB -- Franks mother said that... ML -- We had a huge yard, too. Moderator -- Well, that's another question: who took care of the yard, the maintenance of the house and the yard? FB -- You'd do it yourself. ML -- We did it ourselves. KW -- There wasn't... Moderator -- It wasn't something... KW -- We had a teenage kid he did that. KB -- Franks mother said that Frank hated to cut grass so badly that he asked her if he could go down to work at the filling station and pay somebody to do the grass so she let him. FB -- I haven't changed much either. Moderator -- What is the peach orchard on the north side of campus? FB -- Well, it wasn't a peach orchard it was a pear orchard and that's where we lived. KW -- Well, they also had pecan trees out there. Moderator -- Well, you mentioned a pear orchard so.... ML -- Pecan trees all around us, remember, because we could go to school and pick up pecans on the way. FB -- They were on the other side of campus from us -- diametrically across. Moderator -- So the... FB -- We were right by the campus theater. Moderator -- Okay, that's about where the peach orchard, or the pear orchard... FB -- The pear orchard originally was ran from Wellborn Road to Highway 60, where highway 60 is now. It took in probably 8 or 10 city blocks in there that weren't city blocks. Moderator -- And that was actually an orchard? FB -- It was an orchard, uh, horticulture department probably put it in and did whatever they wanted to and then the college moved houses in there, a lot of 'em! Moderator -- Oh, I see, okay I just didn't understand. KW -- The old trolley line came across right there and we had to cross there. And there was a terminal on campus. ML -- I remember, you know, they didn't have Texas Avenue or College Avenue, as such, but you had to go down the Wellborn Road and then take that big curve... FB - -- On Highway 6... ML -- Yea, and you go and you had to shop in Bryan for groceries so always went to Bryan and shopped at Humpty Dumpty and all the farmers would come with there horse and buggies and everything to shop once a week you know. Moderator -- Well do you ride that trolley into Bryan or did you take a car? FB -- yes. KW -- Oh that thing quit about 1923. Moderator -- Did it; I don't know. FB -- I remember it just a little. KW -- I can't I don't... FB -- And uh, My recollection of it is that the terminal of it was uh, the terminal end, was up there around where the North Gate is now. KW -- Oh, it crossed the road Sulphur Springs then, University now, though. It came onto campus and stopped but I don't know where that was. FB -- Well, it was up in there somewhere. Moderator -- So, there's kind of a distance between Bryan and College Station? ML -- Oh yeah. Moderator -- And then you then you had to go... KW-- 4miles Moderator -- You had to go by car to do your shopping? FB -- You had to go by car or train or that . ML -- One time I went with Mrs. Lancaster and the car stopped on us and we sat out in the middle of nowhere and she was so calm she said " Oh, somebody will come along don't worry about it." Moderator -- And was the road paved between here and ... ML -- Uh, yea it was paved. KW -- Yeah, that was one of the few pieces that was. FB -- Might have had gravel pavement but early on . Moderator -- Pretty good. KW -- The first pave roads around College Station, old Highway 6 for example, had no center stripe. The concrete was rounded, dangerously rounded, on the edges. A driver had to pay attention. There is a bit of campus lore that relates to travel that I can't forget. Across the street from Mary's, there lived the Richie family. Mrs. Richie was an invaled, and every afternoon, weather permitting, Dr. Richie would take the poor lady out for a ride, in the family car. And what a car? The thing was right out of the Great Gatsbv: it was a Packard touring car, all of it was a Robin's egg blue. None in the several counties had such a car. In those days cars were black, right - angled and the grand touring cars probably seemed inappropriate, and too expensive for the 1930s. But not for the Richies -and every warm evening Dr. Richie would drive that poor lady around the community. Mrs. Richie, I think died in about 1937. ML -- She had some kind of bone disease. KW -- I don't know. She died, and I remember his fidelity to that lady. ML -- Yeah and my folks played bridge with them every Saturday night. Moderator -- She would play bridge? ML -- Oh yea, she had uh um like a... it was just a stand and it had rubber bands going across and Mr. Richie would put her cards up and then she would point at the card she wanted to play cause she couldn't really... Moderator - That's interesting well, I'm glad you brought up the bridge cause I was wondering what you did for entertainment you know. ML -- Oh my we did lots of things. KW -- Played Parcheesi, a board game out of the Victorian era. MIL -- That's right and we used to play fox in the morning. Remember that? All of us. KW -- Monopoly - Mary's brother and Sam Ray Gammon would cheat all of the younger kids out of their real estate holdings. ML -- (laughter) I can imagine. Moderator -- And...did they have... ML -- I wen to Mrs. Thomasson's house and go my gradebooks. I read lots. In fact, I fell out of the chinaberry tree in the front yard when I fell asleep and I was winded. I mean really, I lost my wind all night. FB -- I can pick out our house. Moderator -- Okay, would you do that? FB -- Off of this map here. It's really easy and I have living proof about the road condition s out there. The power plant burned coal at that point in time. That's the reason that that spare railroad was put in there -- to bring coal cars in there before the gas got there . And they took the by products of burning coal in a boiler -- it's what they call cinders. It's black, well I have it in both of my knees from where I used to fall on my bicycle. On those cinder roads. That's the truth. That's just the way it is. And, but there was no stop signs. There were no cars really to amount to anything KW -- No red light. KB -- No cops. No City of College Station. We walked to the mail -- our mailbox was in the old Administration Building. You know the big one. We walked. The faculty exchange mail . And we walked there, I'd walk with my dad, you know. Moderator -- Well, did they have any kind of store on campus? You said you had to go to Bryan, but was there anything here that you... FB -- Later on. Moderator -- But not in the beginning? KB -- Okay in the YMCA down, underneath was a ... didn't they have a pharmacy? FB -- There was a drugstore a pharmacy -- Casey's Pharmacy. I don't think they sold drugs there. You had to go to North Gate for that. You could buy ice cream and stuff. KB -- That's what I remember, Campus Confectionary. FB -- Well, before that there was a North Gate there was a grocery store right across the street .... KW -- Aggieland Grocery was located right on the campus. FB -- From the exchange store in the same building where the fire station was and where the building of college utilities were. -- Well, when did Charlie's grocery get there? FB -- After they built the North Gate. KW -- Charlie and Luke Patranella both they were partners originally in the early 20's and they fell out and Luke Patranella went around the corner and Charlie opted to stay there where he did. Now that other grocery store was on the campus and a guy named Greg Layton ran that thing and it lasted until about 1935, but you could buy groceries thereand charge them. -- And you could get your cleaning done on the campus. FB -- And they delivered. KW -- They delivered , okay. Moderator -- They delivered groceries? FB -- They had a pickup and I used to ride with the guy in the summer and had to help him carry the groceries. Moderator -- So you would phone in? Order in ? KW -- My mother would call in to Luke's Grocery and she would get a hold of Sam, a black man that worked there, and she would say, "Sam, I want you to get me a good head of lettuce with no black spots on it, and a dozen eggs and a chicken." And he said "Yes ma'am." And he would deliver that stuff. FB -- There was one spot on the campus where you could get psoline and oil. KW -- John Bravinec ran it. FB -- I'm talking about on the campus. KW -- He was on the campus. John Bravinec started out with a filling station on the campus then he moved to North Gate. FB -- Okay. KW -- Bill Lancaster told me that. I don't remember that. He told me that. FB -- Well, I do. and it was in a building up there where the A &M library is now. It was a branch of the Agricultural Engineering thing. And they just did it a service because they ... KW -- Maybe I'm wrong but... FB -- Well, I don't know, this was 70 years ago, but that's my recollection of it anyway. But it was before... ML( ?) -- My dad was, when he came here was in the Agricultural department. He was teaching. And it grew so big that they put him into a separate building. But he was in the agriculture department and was in the fourth floor of the building. FB -- ...My recollection is that it was a function of the college that might be here, but I haven't had a chance to get to it because here's Hollywood and that's where all those shacks were that they brought in during WWI. But I can pick out our original house on here. Moderator -- Well, I want you to do that for us. Let's put that on there before we leave today, so we'll have it. KW -- There was another commercial enterprise on the campus that had nothing to do with the College. S.G. Bailey, secretary to the A &M Board of Directors and a man whose name appears on Kyle Field, was a representative for a Houston -based Savings & Loan. One could go to Bailey's house ont he campus and open an account. And there was more. He also sold life insurance. So there were some odd things going on here, rules were sort of bent. Bryan Building and Loan was not allowed to open an office at College Station, as a consequence, sort of pre - empted. Moderator -- Well, that's interesting, how that worked. How were the houses assigned? When you... you said that everybody that worked for the University lived on campus, but how were they assigned basically, do you know? FB -- I have no knowledge at all. KW -- I don't know. FB -- But I know niy father, when he came down here they assigned him a house. Because he wouldn't come without one. KB -- He and Franks mother were married in Kilgore right after Christmas in 1919 and they rode the train down to Hearne and spent their wedding night in that old hotel near the railroad station and then they rode the train into College Station from Hearne the next day. MIL -- That is something else. Moderator -- It says on here that a resolution adopted in 1939 stated that, "on of before Sept. 1, 1941 all campus residences must be vacated and not be rented again." Explain what your family did at that time. ML -- Well, we moved off the campus in 1939. Moderator -- Before you had to, basically then. ML -- Well, they told us we were going to have to move off the campus. So they went and bought a lot over there across from ... next door to Mr. Thomasson and Mary Jane Hirsch's dad was next door to us. And Dr. Hedges bought the lot across the street from us. So it was just like on campus. Moderator -- What street was it on? ML -- That's Walton Drive. Moderator -- Oh Walton. MIL -- And we all built those houses at the same time. Mr. Hedges did not build he just kept the lot... and for the longest time, and I guess he sold it. Moderator -- What did you family do, Frank? FB -- My family moved off in 1953. Moderator -- I started to say you were the ones that got to stay. You were the exception. FB -- Well, they did. I was long gone, but they were the last people to move off the campus. Moderator -- So, they didn't have to abide by this rule? FB -- I have no knowledge. KW -- They didn't dare to kick his father off. KB -- They bought the lot over in North Oakwood I think in 1941, or something like that, when all of this was going on, but then they stayed another 12 years. Memorial Student Center was being built. Now Frank and I lived over on the South Side but the children lived with their grandparents and they could walk to South Side through the campus. Of course all the boys liked to play. And Frank's mother has a long thin chain she attached her clothesline. And the boys were all going up to DeWare Field House and walked by there. And so our little boy could be out in the back yard and the boys would all stop and play with him and talk to him and whatever so he loved to do that. Moderator -- Sure. KB -- And Frank didn't much like our little boy tied to the clothesline, but... that was the only way she could let him be out there, and he wanted to be out there so he could talk to all the boys. And they called them "the boys ". Some people called them "Cadets ", but ... ML -- Well, they used to air them out regularly and they would come and stay in our house... KW -- She doesn't know what that means. Moderator -- No, I don't know what "airing out" means. FB -- That's like running them out of their rooms. ML -- They'd run them out of their rooms and the upperclassmen would run ... FB -- That's part of the brutal aspect of the school that they always try not to talk about. ML -- A little of the so-called hazing. FB -- Hazing, yea. Stupid physical abuse. That went on for years and no one would acknowledge it. KW -- The wouldn't feel bad except when it was raining. Moderator -- So they'd come to .... Knox what did your family do? KW -- Let me tell you why people continued to rent houses on the campus. Beside being rather economical, the larger reason was there were only limited places to build homes. The first organized residential area occured in 1922 when a group of ment acquired land just south of the campus. This was College Park. The original tract stopped short of Old Highway 6, but this land was later acquired and developed. About 1934, Herchel Burgess developed an addition just east of the original College Park site calling it South Oakwood. Then, in 1937, burgess opened up North Oakwood a location just north of Hensel Park. My parents bought lots in North Oakwood, built, and that's where I live now. The forced exodus from the campus about 1940 no doubt lost some of its sting as a consequence of the Oakwood development. Moderator -- That's wonderful. Another thing on this list says the central campus area was bounded by Sulpher Springs Road, which is University on the north, Jersey Street on the ... Texas Ave on the east, Jersey Street on the south and old highway 6 which is Wellborn Road on the west. What were those roads like? Were they I guess paved, were they gravel? FB -- That highway on the east side, it was called Highway 6 before... Moderator -- Texas KW -- The new Highway 6 FB -- Yes, Texas Ave. and it was the first paved road that I ever had anything to do with. I'm talking about concrete. The rest of those roads were gravel...or cinders. KB -- Asphalt, gravel, and two lane. KW -- And no stripe. KB -- And no stripe, right? And they were always breaking off on the edges so if you ever got off... Moderator -- Not a great road then? KB -- No. Moderator -- And what about this Sulpher Springs Road, or University? Was it a paved road? FB -- I don't know. I've got some pictures that could tell , but my recollection is that is was gravel. Moderator -- You have some pictures? FB -- We've got a whole bunch of stuff. About three generations of then. Moderator -- It would really be nice if we could get some copies of them. FB -- That is what you call Highway 60 now or University Boulevard on the other end. But basically your information is pretty good there. KW -- They didn't pave most of the streets like he said, on the campus it must have been 1932 or '33 until they topped those cinder streets and added curbs. And prior to that time only Military Walk was paved and as was the west main entrance. Moderator -- Like in that picture. KW -- Okay, that was paved and Military Walk, and the rest of that stuff was cinder streets with no curbs. Moderator -- Okay, I see. Well, when people came to visit A &M, say for graduation or for dances, where did they stay? FB -- Well, if they didn't stay in somebody's house, like a house on the campus, possibly the Aggieland Inn. Moderator -- Oh, what's the Aggieland Inn? FB -- It was a hotel and restaurant for visitors. Moderator -- On campus? KB -- Yes KW -- Nice place. FB -- Right across the street from Sbisa Hall. ML -- Sbisa hall. Moderator -- Now, is that where Sbisa is now? FB -- Well, it's between Sbisa and the hospital. Now I can't tell you... Moderator -- Oh, I didn't realize there was a hotel ever a hotel on campus. FB -- Yea; well it was a small one and the name of it was the Aggieland Inn. KW -- But, it would accommodate only a handful of people so a lot of people who came didn't spend the night here. Moderator -- So did a lot of people come for graduation? Were there large crowds? KW -- Sure, oh yea. And then they left. FB -- Sometimes, when they had a big weekend a lot of times the students would vacate one dormitory and the visitors would stay in that. ML -- My parents always went there on...well, I don't know it was once a month I think.... they had a bridge group, you know and they would eat first at the Aggieland Inn and then they would go to somebody's house and play bridge. Moderator -- You all just mentioned the Aggieland Inn and there's a note here about the Shirley, a two-story frame building that later became the Aggieland Inn. FB -- The Aggieland Inn I remember was brick. Moderator -- Okay. KW -- It was right across from Sbisa. It lasted until well after WWII, it was still here. ML -- When they made the movie "We've Never Been Licked, " I mean they took pictures of Sbisa Hall because I went to the dance and we had to kick off our shoes, I remember that. And that was fun. Moderator -- Well, you've told me a little bit, but maybe you could expand on the adult social life. Mary, you said your parents played bridge. ML -- Oh yeah. that was the big thing. Moderator -- What else was there besides bridge that the adult enjoyed? FB -- Church. ML -- Church. Moderator -- Now, were the churches on campus or were the churches elsewhere? ML -- We went to the YMCA, because that's where the Presbyterian church met. FB -- How did they get there, Mary? I've never understood that. That's campus property. ML -- I think maybe because of Mr. Cashion and Gay. FB -- Well, Gay wasn't here when they first got here. ML -- I think it was Mr. Cashion. FB - Yea he was. KW -- Why wasn't it an Episcopal church, or Lutheran? Why did it have to be Presbyterian? ML -- I don't have any idea. FB -- I don't know who else was in there, but we do know the Presbyterian were in there. KW -- Body Politic ML -- Well, the Baptist ad their own church and the Methodists did too. Moderator -- Oh, located nearby? ML -- And we didn't, so we went to church in the YMCA. FB -- It was in Northgate. KB -- R. L. Brown was the Baptist minister for ever and ever and ever. FB -- He was a great man. But, the Presbyterian church was founded in 1922. And, my father was one of the founders of that church along with Dean Bolton and several other people. But Mr. Cashion was no here until '25, so he was not one of the founding members of that church -- everybody thought he was. But, the Church history say that they met in Guion Hall a lot, and this kind of thing, but I don't remember anywhere but there. KW -- You know, I never really understood how this Union Sunday School got started and looking back, I think it might have something to do with a little Protestant hostility. Some of the good ladies of the community had it in for certain preachers. But sometime in the very early thirties of maybe it started in the 1920's , a bunch of the good ladies of the campus organized a Sunday School that was taught in the basement of Guion Hall. ML -- Well, that was the Presbyterian church because Ms. Hammil ran that. KW -- She may have run it, but that's not what they said Mary. They said it was a Unionist non - sectarian and they went at length to establish that. KW -- Well, Ms. Bilsing ran that Sunday School with a strong hand, the way she always did things. FB -- Well, it was in the basement underneath the stage. KW -- That's right. My first experience with God was right there in the basement. ML -- In the basement of Guion Hall. And we also went, you know that old movie theater ... that wooden building.... KW -- Assembly Hall -- they moved it over there later. ML -- That's where we met, too. KW -- That was later, though. Moderator -- Tell me, this is changing the subject, but tell me about the "Fish Tank ". KW -- I nearly drowned there. Moderator -- This must be a place where the kids enjoyed going. ML -- Where they took the Freshman out. KW -- Any excuse, they were going to the "Fish Tank ". Moderator -- Out by Easterwood Airport it says. KB -- I don't think I ever went there. KW -- It's still there today. Moderator -- Is it still there? ML -- Well, I used to go riding every Saturday morning. I remember I had a chance to do that and I loved it. FB -- You took those lesson, right? ML -- Yeah. Sergeant Seager was the guide and he sent taught us left flank hoe and right flank hoe. FB -- I always resented that. I wanted.... Moderator -- Well, tell me about the College Station Zoo. It says here there was a zoo on the west side of the railroad tracks. ML -- I never went there. KW -- Yea, I remember that. I remember those lions roaring over the one. FB -- Say that again. I didn't hear. Moderator -- It says, explain the College Station Zoo locates on the West side of the railroad tracks. FB -- Okay, do you know, is the Cashion Cabin still out there on that lake? KW -- They moved it. They moved the Cashion Cabin to Hensel Park years later, and then they tore it down. FB -- Well, that zoo was right across the street. Moderator -- And did they have a lot of animals there? KW -- A lion I remember. FB -- I would say no. Not by today's standards, but a few animals. Moderator -- I wonder who sponsored that zoo. FB -- Probably the Veterinary Hospital. KW -- There was one guy, I remember that, but I can't remember who. My father used to... I barely remember that thing myself. ML -- Dr. Francis. Would he have done it? KW -- I don't think he would have done it. He worked on a higher plane, he was too busy with vet science and assembly museum. ML -- I'll never forget that. Moderator -- At the zoo? ML -- No, no. This was a museum that he had. They had a two-headed calf in there. I just was.... KW -- Dr. Francis was an extremely scholarly man. He was the father of Veterinary Medicine in the south. But he wasn't just a veterinarian. He was a Paleontologist and a botanist. And he put a museum in the old Francis building on campus. ML -- And you could go an see the dinosaur bones and the ... KW -- And he conned a mummy. The Egyptians used to mummify everybody as it turns out and a traveling group came through here, he got an Egyptian Mummy and had that thing in there with this case. And Summertime, when everything was boring, we used to slip in there and look at the stuff and walk down through there in the dark you know. And look at these two-headed things and the mummy. Moderator -- What happened on campus when all the students left for the summer? FB -- Dead silence. ML -- We didn't have air - conditioning then. It'd be so hot in the afternoon, we'd all have to go lay on the bed, I remember that. KB -- When did they build the swimming pool? ML -- In '35. FB -- Well, they got a swimming pool in the basement at YMCA . ML -- Michael's wouldn't let me go there. KW -- I was a nasty place, a dark, damp place. ML -- It was really dirty. Moderator -- Oh, really? ML -- Yeah, really bad. Moderator -- But, when they built the one at DeWare you were able? ML -- We were able to go swimming. FB -- But, they wouldn't let anybody in it except people, essentially people that lived on campus. People from Bryan couldn't get in it. People who didn't work for the college couldn't get in it. Moderator -- Well, let's get back to your elementary school days, you went to school on campus? ML -- Yep, John Kimbrough came by when I was playing jacks, all of us. FB -- I remember that! ML -- you remember that? FB -- We were walking down that street like big heroes. Moderator -- But, did you go to school your entire school career on campus or ... FB -- Yes, I did. Moderator -- High school? FB -- High school and grammar school ML -- We went to Phifer hall which was an old condemned building that we used to take the bricks out of . FB -- This is a picture of the first consolidated football team, that got a jersey. KW -- Is Bub Mousner in there? FB -- No. Moderator -- Are you in that picture Frank? FB -- Yes! Top right hand side. KW -- What year is this ? FB -- 1937 Moderator -- And that was on campus, football team on campus? FB -- That's right, this building is between the old what we used to call the main building and it and the Physics building. ML -- Okay. FB -- It's probably gone now, it's an old red brick building called Phifer Hall. ML -- And really it was a condemned building but it we went to high school there and our names are on the back. Moderator -- About how big were your classes? Your elementary classes? FB -- Well that was the whole football team right there and I think it had 14 people on it. Moderator -- Pretty small classes then? FB -- Oh yes there are people that came in on school buses out from Peach Creek. Moderator -- So, they did bring in people from the community FB -- It was a consolidated school. KW -- Prior to 1920, what this place was a patchwork of little local one room schools. There was one at Union Hill, which is right down South College below Albertson's about a mile on the left, there was one at Rock Prairie, there was one at Peach Creek , ya know. I don't remember all the place there were. And then they built this consolidated grade school, they got school buses and they brought then 'em into the campus and Texas A &M furnished an ancient abandoned building for the high school, Pifer Hall. Moderator -- And what year did they move the school off the campus? KW -- January 1940 we moved, I was in the 6th grade up until mid - semester. We moved over here in January 1940. Moderator -- So, you went to school in this building basically. KW -- I finished up most of sixth grade on the campus. ML -- I did too in this little white building Moderator -- And was the high school here as well? ML -- Yeah, right here. I finished grade school over there, I think we moved in the middle of the seventh year. KW -- In 1940, Mary, January 1940 we made the move over here. ML -- And then was a freshman the next year weren't you KW -- Now I was a year behind you, you were more advanced! ML -- No, I wasn't! FB -- Primarily, they only moved students in here out of Wellborn and Peach Creek. The ones from Millican went to Navasota. And of coure, we did't pick up anyone this way because they went to Bryan. KW -- Union Hill School kids came here. FB -- They did, but they didn't run a bus. Moderator -- What kind of activities, you know school activities were there? ML -- Well, they had intramurals. Moderator -- Okay ML -- At least when I was going to high school they had intramurals. I don't know what they had when you were going to school. KB -- Well, Frank go to play football. ML -- Yeah, and my brother played tennis, I know. Moderator -- And what about music? ML -- We had an orchestra. Moderator -- In the high school? ML -- Yes, Colonel Dunn started that orchestra. Moderator -- Oh really. ML -- And we met behind the little white stucco building, a big barn like building and we met in that, and we played. And then we used to fly kites out where Duncan Hall and all those building are. It was just an open field. I remember having to run my brother's kite. He'd say "run! run!" and he would hold the kite and I would run with it! Moderator -- Well, when you were in high school, where would you go to the movies? Now was the campus theater there? FB -- No, 1940's when that opened up. ML -- No, we went to the Assembly Hall. Moderator -- So, you went to one on campus? ML, FB -- The Assembly Hall. Moderator -- What is the Queen Theater in Bryan? FB - -It was in Bryan... KW -- It was closed occasionally they would show movies in Spanish. FB -- ...In the Palace Theater. Moderator -- So you had to , to Bryan to go? FB -- Well, the gunt of the Assembly Hall, they ran free pictures in there on Sunday. KW -- On Sunday afternoon. FB -- And that's the only time I knew it to be opened. ML -- It was Saturday cause we used to go. Moderator -- So, it was free on campus then? Free movies on campus? FB -- On Sunday afternoon. Moderator -- What was the cost if, to go other times or were they open? FB -- They weren't open to the best of my knowledge. KW -- No, no it was open Frank. FB -- Was it? KW -- The Assembly Hall... ML -- Saturday night, we used to go on Saturday nights. KW -- I have no understanding of the kinds of agreements that are struck between film producers and local theater operators but it was obvious that Bryan interests had a lock on the first run of films. It was certainly an agreement that could have been found in many other communities. But the result for College Station menat that good films appeared first at the Palace, months and months later at the Assembly Hall on campus. To say the least, this arrangement angered many at College Station. But then on Sundays, we enjoyed the free movie at the Assembly Hall. Typically these were third rate films. But nobody cared. It was free and it was the Depression. Moderator -- What was the movie cost then? KW -- Oh, Lord. You know, six cents, maybe. ML -- Children were a dime. Nickel at the Queen and a dime at the Palace. KB -- Oh that was wonderful, wasn't? ML -- But, Bryan didn't want us to build anything out here, there was a lot, there was a lot of feeling against it and they didn't want us to have department stores, they didn't was us to have grocery stores. They kept us from doing a lot of that stuff because they wanted to.... KB -- Lou Cashion said her grandmother made her want to move because she was the President that founded the A &M's Women Social Club. Moderator -- Right KB -- Because the women in Bryan didn't welcome them. FB -- It was old patrician, old money, old patrician family. Let me tell you over where Tex..., where University runs into Texas, right there today, over there on the east side...the Schulman Family came out there and put this sign up that said " we are going to erect a brand new movie theater called the Aggieland" or something like that, they put the sign up there. But they never did. And later on the Aggies boycotted the Schulman Theater in Bryan. That lasted for, I don't know how long it lasted, but it hurt the other merchants. They wouldn't go to Bryan and spend money. And then pretty soon WWII was here and all that was forgotten. But I can see that sign there that says we are going to build this big movie, and didn't do it. KB -- Who built the Campus Theater? MIL -- Fergusen FB -- The Boyetts ML -- The Boyetts built it and Mr. Fergusen ran it KW -- Fergusen ran that thing didn't he? FB -- He was the manager or something, but it was the Boyetts. ML -- He had those outdoor theaters in Hearne, you remember you drive... ALL -- Drive -ins! ML -- And then he had the Campus Theater and he, he really did give Mrs. Schulman a hard time because he would charge less then she did. Moderator -- Did they have popcorn then, and cokes like they do now? FB -- Yea, popcorn. ML -- Yea, sure. FB -- Peanuts. Moderator -- In the lobby? FB -- Peanuts lots of peanuts. Roast peanuts. ML -- Peanuts at the Assembly Hall, you know because all the Aggies would throw their shells. Moderator -- Oh. ML -- And they would hit us, I remember that (laughter). FB -- You can't imagine what the Assembly Hall looked like... Moderator -- Well, tell us what it looked like? FB -- Well, it was. It looked like something out of a horror movie made out of wood. ML -- It was so noisy it was like, it was like going to the rodeo. Moderator -- Well, at least tell us what the Assembly Hall looked like. FB -- Well, it was not anything like a modern theater, it was made all out of wood and it had a balcony up there. MIL -- Made out of wood... FB -- It had these great big wooden beans going down there, and it was badly lit, you know, it looked like something from Phantom of the Opera. ML -- Yea, the seats were not cushioned, wooden seats and I remember when the showed 'King Kong "... FB -- I remember that! ML -- Yea, that first "King Kong" I climbed under the seat I was so scared. (laughter) FB -- That was a year later after "King Kong" showed at Bryan we got it at the Assembly Hall. ML -- Oh yea, I know we got all the B movies, we never got the A movies, but I loved going. It was so much fun. KW -- I think the reason for those free movies on Sunday afternoon was to try to keep the boys on campus. FB -- The X- Student Association paid for that. Moderator -- Well, what did the boys do on Sunday, I guess, if they didn't go to the movies? FB -- They went to the movies primarily. Well, you see, no students had any cars out here till probably about 1929 or 1930. ML -- Trains went through. FB -- Had some trains, but nobody had any money, they hitchhiked. ML -- 10 and 4, and they hitchhiked everywhere you never drove into town with an empty car. You always stopped at Norhtgate and picked up anybody who was standing there. Moderator -- Well, I can remember the days they used to line up out here. FB -- That's right. KW -- Yea.... you bet. Moderator -- Well, what was this whistle that blew at certain times of the day? KW -- It wasn't a whistle. FB -- Well, there was a whistle at the Power Plant that blew at 8, at 12, and at 12:30, at 4:30 or 5 whatever, it was for people to go to work or quit. KW -- It was like the Southern Plantation Bell that called. You rang and it brought the slaves out of the field. Moderator -- So, you knew what to do by the whistle? FB -- And then the students had a similar situation. They had bugle stand out between the YMCA and the Drill Field, and they were called to mess and everything by bugle call. ML -- And they had regular reviews on that drill field out there. Because I could remember the horse case on and the guns and all that and I was there when President Roosevelt came and .... Moderator -- I always wanted to ... ML -- He went down that thing. You remember it, were you there? KW -- Yea. FB -- You bet I was right there KB -- Yea. ML -- I was right there right next to him you know and it was really something and I remember hat review was a really big one. KW -- That day track coach Frank Anderson's younger son, barefoot, dressed in white linen suit, with tie, broke out of the crowd and jumped on the running board of the President's touring car. Young Wally Anderson shook hands with FDR. KB -- Oh my, that would never happen today. KW -- No, they would probably shoot him. KB -- That's right. FB -- I was out at the Depot on that. Moderator -- He came in by train? ML -- Yea. KW -- Yeah, he brought his touring car. ML -- He had to come down this ramp you know because he had wooden things on either side to hang on to. Moderator -- uh- huh... ML -- And he swung his legs right on down and I was amazed KB -- They put him in that big open touring car. Moderator -- Oh, that must have been exciting ML - - It was. Moderator -- To have the President... ML -- Of the United States... KB -- He spent the night in the President's house on campus. Moderator -- On campus? KW -- Big time! KB -- Lou said her grandmother didn't wash those sheet after that. Moderator -- Now, who was the President then? You've told me, but I don't remember ML -- TO Walton KB -- TO Walton Moderator -- Gee that was exciting KB -- Lou Cashions grandfather Moderator -- So, why did he come to A &M? I mean was there ML -- He wanted to see the troops. I mean the war was beginning to .... FB -- It was about 37... Moderator -- It's 37, it's the date I have here. FB -- He just won the elections. ML -- Yea he was. KB - -- The second one. Moderator -- Oh ML - -- He was interested in the Army. They said WWII, A &M turned out more officers then any other. KB Yes, that's true. KW -- Roosevelt at this hour was trying to get through his programs: social security and stacking the Supreme Court. He was successful with Social Security. Moderator -- Uh -huh KW -- Everything he did was politics, you now. Moderator -- Uh -huh, sure. KW -- He was touching bases with people. Moderator -- But that was an exciting time for you all then? KW -- Oh brother. ML -- Get to rub elbows with the President! KB -- That's mighty interesting KW -- We had, let me tell you about this, we had another exciting thing, we had a family of Indians moved in this community. Moderator -- A family of Indians? KW -- A family of Indians, William Sky Eagles. They arrived in a twenties Studebaker truck, a bunch of kids and furniture and they rented a house on College Road, near Borderbrook Farm. Mr. Sky Eagle was a sign painter and a sighn painter who wore a braid in his hair. He put on shows on Indian lore at Consolidated before wide -eyed children -and teachers. The two older boys, Chester and William Jr. attended Consolidated. William later graduated from A &M, a Civil Engineer. Sometime during the Sky Eagles tenure at College, my father killed a deer and wild turkey -and began to think about the Sky Eagles...He went by their house and formally presented this game to Mrs. Sky Eagle. She was delighted. Moderator -- Well, tell me a little about the YMCA and what it had to offer to the children or the young people (that's you, I recognize you) KW -- Ask Mary, I don't know. We had a swimming pool before they built the Down's pool by Deware. Moderator -- And you said you couldn't swim.... ML -- Poesy's, Poesy's at the YMCA and getting a haircut... FB -- It was Casey and Sparks. ML -- Okay, they have it wrong. FB -- Jess Casey. KW -- C- A -S -E -Y FB -- Yeah, and Bill Sparks, urn and they were partners in the, in that, it was just a soda fountain, that' all it was, I mean, I don't think they even had any sandwiches in there. Moderator -- So, it was a soda fountain. KB -- I didn't. They call it the Confectionary KW-- Yea. FB -- Well, it could be ... ML -- No, that was is the YMCA. FB -- Yeah and it was um... ML -- I was just remembering, but I don't, what, I don't remember the years we had a, what was the guy that had the Aggieland Orchestra and he had Gilbert and Southerland in the summertime, and I, we would go play and then we would over across the street, we played in the Assembly Hall, we had it at the Assembly Hall, and then we'd go to the place you are talking about to have a soda. Moderator -- Something to drink afterwards and... KB -- Yeah, right. Moderator -- Soft drink or whatever you want... KB -- We had so much fun. Moderator -- And you got haircuts at the Y? FB -- Yeah, okay. KW - - At the end of the Y. FB -- Yea, it you walked in the main entrance of the Y. You would be going east and this confectionery was on the bottom floor on the left, on the north side of the building Moderator -- Now we are talking about the Y that is there now? ML -- Yes. Moderator -- The same.... FB -- The only one there has ever been as far as I know. Moderator -- I was just trying to get the picture ML -- Yea. FB -- On the diametrically opposite end bottom floor on the right was where the barber shop was. Moderator -- Now, did the students get their haircut there, too? FB -- Yea. ML -- And the pool was in between. FB -- Yea, and the swimming pool... ML -- ...was on the bottom. FB -- Yeah and the pool hall was in between ML -- Yeah I remember that . KW -- They didn't have any bowling lanes. The bowling lanes took the place of the pool. FB -- That's right later on. ML -- Yea. later. KB -- Yea. Moderator -- And what about renting out rooms, the Y renting out rooms? FB -- All the way at the top floor and the access to them was up the stairs at the backside, off Military Walk. Moderator -- And who were, who rented those rooms, guest that came to the campus? FB -- Bachelors that were instructors or... Moderator -- Oh okay. FB -- Or something like this maybe um people that were on advanced degrees or something like this. Urn. Tommy Fergesen lived there, this coach that is in this picture here, lived there awhile. Moderator -- Okay, oh what about, it says here what about receiving mail or telephone messages? Now Mary, you mentioned you went someplace to pick up your mail. ML -- Yea, we went to the faculty exchange, which was in the um... KW -- Academic Building, the Old Main Building. ML -- The Academic Building. Moderator -- So they had post office boxes there for faculty that lived on campus? FB -- Ours was 122 . FB -- FE, Faculty Exchange. ML -- Mine was 267 FE. Moderator -- You haven't forgotten what was yours Frank? You remember, I mean Knox, I'm sorry, I keep calling you Frank. KW -- What? Frank? That's Frank? Moderator -- I know (laughter) KW -- Frank's young. His hair is darker then mine is. Moderator -- Do you remember your post office box number? KW -- What? Moderator -- Do you remember your post office box number? KW -- No, it was... no. I remember what it looked like. Moderator -- What about... FB -- There was a post office uh, down by the tracks where some people got their mail, but nobody that worked on campus used it. Moderator -- So there was a post office by like the railroad station? FB -- Yea. There was a little building. ML -- That is what I was talking about. See we went up in our attic... Moderator -- Uh -huh. ML -- And we brought down these books. Moderator -- Right ML -- And they were people that have gotten packages. Moderator -- Oh I see, that's what you mean ML -- They signed, they signed for them you know and there was a lot of people FB -- Mary, what you know where the College Station Post Office is today? North Yeager. ML -- Right. FB -- Was there a wooden building there before that one was built? I keep, in my mind, people tell me I'm wrong. ML -- I can't remember, I can't remember. FB -- Originally in the 20's there was one across the street right on Norhtgate. Right where, uni Charlie's grocery mart. ML -- Right. FB -- Well, there was one there. FB -- I keep thinking there was one where the brick building is now these was one, but I don't know. Moderator -- Did the houses you lived in have telephones? FB -- Oh yea. Moderator -- Everybody had a telephone? FB -- Not everybody. If you paid for it you had one. Moderator -- But you could have one? FB -- Some people didn't have them because they wouldn't pay for them. KW -- The telephone office was right by my father's office and there was a lady up there with on of those old time plug in deals and you got the operator. FB -- You said, "Give me the police. The house is on fire do something!" Moderator -- It's hard to believe that's the way it was. But it worked to call the operator. ML -- We had to call the operator... as I remember, my grandmother and grandfather cane from Wisconsin to visit us and they brought their dog; which was a fire -head terrie. Some guy was going under the house and that dog got a hold of his legs. I mean he wouldn't let go, so we had to call to get somebody. KW -- Long distance was still a big thing. Moderator -- Yea, just didn't do that much? KW -- No you didn't. Moderator -- There is a question here about summer on the campus when the students left. Where did the students store their trunks and other things? KB -- They took them with them. I don't think they stored them. KW -- I think they did, but I don't know. I'm blank on where they went, but umm... I'll have to pass on that one. I don't know. Moderator -- You don't have any idea? KB -- When the girls would come to the dances they would clear out a dormitory. KW -- They just moved the Aggies out. KB -- They would go stay with someone else. Moderator -- I didn't know that. FB -- It was all done very tastefully. There wasn't any gray area. Chaperones in every corner of them. Moderator -- I'm sure. KW -- One of the things they did they always took their window shades and drapes, if they had any, when those girls were coming in. So they either got to dress in the dark or else they had to put a blanket over the window. Moderator -- That sounds like a good story! So they stayed at homes? KW -- Alot of them did. KB -- Alot of them did. Moderator -- Came by train... KB -- Especially during the war. Alot came by bus. ? ? -- We've had up to a half a dozen girls in our house at once on one of those big weekends. Moderator -- Oh Gosh! KW -- Jane and Ed Williams lived across the street from the Walders, and when visitors would come to the campus for special short courses during the summer, they would rent out the house to these folks. Jand and Ed and kids would retire outside, on cots, protected by mosquito bars. Jane Williams knew a thing or two about the dollar. In the thirties, one milked the system for everything one could. FB -- We never charged anyone a penny. KW -- Well Jane and Ed did. FB -- But alot of people did. KB -- Strangers would pay two dollars to stay the weekend. ML -- It was always someone the family knew. Moderator -- It's a different time now isn't it? KW -- We lived in a two bedroom house on the campus and during the twenties- early thirties, the front bedroom was always rented out,in this case to ladies who worked for the Texas Agricultural Extension Service. This tiny house, one bathroom, my parents newly married- My God! And it wasn't just the Walkers and Ed and Jane Williams; commonly the people on the campus rented out. Across Lubbock Street in Dean Bolton's house, C.C. Dook and his wife took an apartment for years. Everybody moonlighted; you worked the system even if you were a Dean. ML -- You didn't make alot. KW -- Umm lunm. ML -- They had more than one bathroom. KW -- My father, in 1932, made $4000 a year as a civil engineer. And the next year they cut his salary $1000, 25 %, and now then in 1933 he made $3000. And they did that across the board. Moderator -- But that was alot of money back then. KW -- Oh that was enough, we lived very comfortably. We had none of the accommodations of today, but we ate very well. Moderator -- Its hard to believe. Its hard to imagine. FB -- My father retired in 1955, and he worked for the college from 1919 till then and there never was a year he made $10000 here. He had cars like you said, he didn't blow a lot of money. KW - - No, no. KW -- Everything you did was thought about, every penny they spent was thought about. If you didn't do that you were going to be a failure. ML -- The maid would go out and kill the chickens. Remember that? And defeather them. FB -- When you bought a chicken, that chicken was walking, I mean, you could pick out the one that looked best. KW -- Rung his neck and scalded him and fried him. Moderator -- Man I don't want to do that. MIL -- I remember when they put in the freezers, I don't know when they did, but people used to have lockers up there to keep things frozen. Moderator -- And where was that locker, where were they located at? KW -- Down at the animal husbandry, oh what was it ML -- Animal Science KW -- Its where the slaughter pins were. Moderator -- Well did any of you have part time jobs? FB -- Yes, yes.... Moderator -- We got that on record, right? What kind of jobs did girls work? MIL -- There wasn't much for girls to do. Moderator -- What did boys do? FB -- Well I worked in filling stations. I started about the time I was in....uhh... ML -- Knox, did you ever work? KW -- Not in the 30's I didn't, in WWII I got a job. Moderator -- It's interesting. ML -- Some kids cut grass. Moderator -- Yea, I wondered about that, with those push mowers. ML -- This is Frank's car that he supported with his mowing, His Willis and all the kids in town rode around town in his Willis. KW -- I remember that. Moderator -- You were rich Frank if you had a car? ML -- Well, yea, it was kinda a car. Moderator -- What if you had to go to the doctor? FB -- Dr. Marsh was right on the hospital, right there. Moderator -- On campus? FB -- Yea, but that didn't last, they stopped after a while, I don't KB -- Yea they did Then we went to G. O. Wilkerson, or Turner Walton, yea we went to Turner Walton, we just went to Bryan. Moderator -- You went to Bryan, and you said you were born in Bryan? In a hospital. ML -- I have a scar here on my throat, a result of tracheotomy; a tube had been inserted in my throat. In 1931, I came down with diphtheria, a disease for which at the time there was a vaccine. Oddly, my mother had failed to get me vaccinated. I couldn't be treated on the campus in 1931 and they took me to Bryan to the Wilkerson Clinic. Well, obviously I survived and perhaps the last Brazos County person to come down with diphtheria, a disease tha I shouldn't have had.From conversations I've learned that Dr. Marsh, the A &M physician, commonly administered his talents to faculty and staff who were ill. Apparently, by 1931, his practice in this area had been curtailed. ML -- Dr. Oliver. KW -- Well, Dr. Oliver was dead by then. Moderator -- The only hospital was in Bryan, I suppose. Now is that the old St. Joseph's, then north of downtown? KW -- No, it was west. Moderator -- Oh. I'm turned around. That old building is still there. KW -- The Oliver family built that thing then. Dr. Ehlinger and Dr. Grant tried to run that thing and they were going broke, so they went over to Brenham and got those Catholic sisters to come over, to take that thing over in about 1934. Moderator -- Well, I am sort of jumping around with my questions. I hope you'll forgive me...Umm... We talked about when the girls came to dances and things, they stayed in homes, what about the football games? Did people cone in too like they do today? Did they spend the night? KB -- Well, I know my folks always fixed this huge turkey all that, for lunch or dinner, and they would leave or go home. Moderator -- They did not stay? KB -- They did not stay. FB -- There was a La Salle Hotel in Bryan; that was essentially it. KB -- The facilities were not there, but they still came. FB -- They still came. KW -- Well, they keep saying that, but you know... FB -- We went to Knotholes ( ?); we had knotholes we used to go to the ends of them and sit, or else we'd play football outside and hear everybody shout because Kyle Field was right there, we could hear everything. Moderator -- What is the...Does this have anything to do with the football games, the fast train called the Sunbeam Special? ML -- The Sunbeam Special was the one that came at then and... well, you could always hear it... KW -- It came about three times a day, didn't it? FB -- It ran from Dallas to Houston. Moderator -- So you could set your clock to then by that train? FB -- Right, just about. It was a 90 mph train. KW -- One stop, and that was... Moderator -- Here? KW -- ...College Station. FB -- There were two. There was another one; they changed crews in Ennis. KW -- Ennis? Okay. FB -- But they didn't pick up any patrons. Moderator -- And it went to Houston? KW -- Yea, you could get to downtown Houston just in minutes. It was amazing. Moderator -- I wish we still had that today. KW -- Oh, it was nice. FB -- Well, I don't know when they quit, but, evidently their ridership fell off after the war. It was a fast streamliner and it was a joy to ride. Moderator -- I bet. FB -- I think it was 90 minutes from here to downtown Houston. KW -- You'd get on here and have a cup of coffee and you'd be there. Moderator -- And you were there, how wonderful. KW - - And it was so posh. Moderator -- So it was three times a day? It came through? KW -- Well, I don't remember, two or three, I don't know. ML -- It came at 10 o'clock and it came at...I think 2 and 4 and came back. KB -- Dr. Pepper, I don't know. FB -- I'll tell you what I do remember about that thing. When it left Hempstsead, it ran parallel to the road all the way into Houston, and I've never had a car that would stay up with that thing... from Hempstead to Houston. Moderator -- It's like a bullet train. FB -- I mean -oh -it was going. It was going. KW -- Still steam? KB or ML -- No, it was before the diesel. KW -- Okay, I don't know. Moderator -- Well, we could use that today. What about the female family members? Were they allowed to attend classes at A &M at all during the twenties and thirties? ML -- Well Ms. FB -- There was a brief period where that was allowed. ML -- And Caroline Mitchell.. Moderator -- Oh, I didn't know Caroline went to A &M. ML -- I think she did. FB -- That's all written up, you know, I don't remember the time span. ML -- I don't either. KB -- I went to summer school, I always went to summer school. Moderator -- They were allowed? That's what I thought, that it was very unusual for them to go at other times. FB -- She'd got a masters degree, before they opened it up for ladies. KB -- When they first let women in graduate school. KW -- Okay, you got a graduate's degree. KB -- I went to graduate school. And I get all my mail, "Kathleen M. Brown, '67." I said, "That makes me feel real young thinking I was in the class of'67." First time I graduated from college was 1944. Moderator -- But you got your real degree in '67. KB -- Yeah. And they would not let me go through...they didn't have a summer graduation and so I didn't ever go through a graduation ceremony. ML -- They wouldn't let you. KW -- They wouldn't let you. ML -- They wouldn't let women go through that graduation. Moderator -- They wouldn't? FB -- You know this place just astonishes me, the front they put up today and what they were 60 years ago, you know. A lot of hypocrisy is shouldered... KB -- And my dad kept saying, he says, "They're never gonna be anything 'til they let women come to this college." Moderator -- And he was right. KB -- Oh, sure. ML -- And some of those Old Aggies, I remember one, he said... KB -- Oh, they were dyed in the wool NO we're not gonna have any women here; we're not gonna do it." ML -- It was gonna ruin it. KB -- They really felt... FB -- I was a guest and addressed the Rotary Club in Brownwood, Texas about 1961 or 62 and I didn't know that it was a bunch of really dyed -in -the -wool Aggies. And one of them asked me a question, said, "What about the ladies at A &M ?" And I said, "They're corning. It'll be the greatest thing that's ever happened to the school, when they do it." And I thought they were going to throw me out of there. KB -- You were not popular. Well, I can remember that very well. That was a different time. KW -- I look back now and think about the different people that visited our house on the campus in the thirties and am amazed about what they talked about- and what they didn't talk about. Texas A &M was an institution of higher learning, a place dedicated to higher purpose. And that largely described the school, but it stopped well short of such subjects as racial segregation. I don't recall anyone suggesting that segregation ws wrong, that we ought to move ahead. I know very well that many had such thoughts. But they knew what was expected ad appropriate... Texas A &M may have been a school for higher education but it , after all, was a southern school for higher education. KB -- This was 1938. Every year when the fresh...This was Frank's freshman year, in 1938. And the Bryan Daily Eagle put out this special deal to all the incoming students, it was saved so you might be interested to look and see how Bryan and College Station were in 1938. Moderator -- It would be interesting. KB -- Like to look at it? Moderator -- I'd like to look at it. ML -- Well, I don't have anything left because when the house burned down, I lost it all. Moderator -- That's too bad; that's really a shame. KB -- Well, we had pictures, you know the... ML -- Ashes... and I had some pictures. Moderator -- I've got one more thing I wanted to discuss with you. I think we've gone over time, I'm not sure. Explain other activities around A &M such as boy scouts, wrestling. track, and girl scouts. Do you remember anything? ML -- Well, my brother was in the boy scouts. The troop used to go on scout trips, so I know he was in the scouts. Moderator -- And what about girl scouts? ML -- I was in the Brownies. Ms. Connor had us over there; we baked in her kiln, learned how to make clay pottery and stuff. You know. And I forget who else was...well, I don't remember, but yeah, I was in the girl scouts. Moderator -- What about the Boy Scouts? ML -- We folded bandages... FB -- It was here. ML -- ...'cause it was for the World War II. That's when I was in the girl scouts and we would go, once a week, and fold bandages for the war effort. Moderator -- I can remember. ML -- And they'd tack them, you know. Moderator -- Yea, and we got saving stamps at school, didn't we? FB -- Yea, 5 or 10 cents or a quarter, put 'em in a book 'til you got enough to get $18.75. Eighteen dollars, seventy- five cents war bonds. KB -- Still got one of those bonds; maybe I'll cash it in. FB - Still got it? ML -- Well, how many was in your class? FB -- What? ML -- There was only 28 in my class. FB -- Well, you know, like that -- 25. Moderator -- That's your graduating class? ML -- Yea, and Jeanie Anderson, they had a bigger class, much bigger. FB -- She was a, she was...we had about 25 kids. KB -- She was the class ahead of me. ML -- You didn't have very many in your class. I know, my brother was in it. But he took a lot of his high school courses at A &M. Like, he took chemistry. He took Chemistry at A &M rather than at the high school itself. KB -- What year did he graduate? How much older is he than you? ML -- Well, he was 3 1/2 years, but he's 4 years ahead of me in school and he went over and tool science over there too. Moderator -- Oh, so they were allowed to take some of their high school classes...? ML -- Yea, because they didn't have them in regular school. He got a lot more of the advantage than I did when we moved over here, it was WWII and all the teachers left, and everything was broken up...My geometry teacher was a history teacher. They didn't really teach you anything. Moderator -- It was hard... ML -- He learned well. Mrs. Windberg taught him the vowels. That was really...I think they had a good education over there. Moderator -- Interesting. Is there anything you'd like to add? I've run out of questions here. Maybe there are some comments you'd like to make. ML -- Those two have better recollections that I do. I just, you know, I just lived. I had fun though. It was a happy time. FB -- It was the 1930's. As bad as it was, it's just not...it was really a distortion; it was a little knot of people on the campus who had a sustainable way of life, because a check was coming in, and you had all these other people away from the campus off 200 yards and that wasn't no case for them, and so you really were insulated from the thing...and I, we had very little money, but at the time it seemed like we were just filthy rich - -and we weren't. ML -- Do you remember those plays that Florence Ritchey put on? Do you remember? FB -- I remember some of that stuff...All that junk y'all used to do, I used to go... ML -- She had plays in the backyard. She would write them up, and my brother was the rail, and I was always standing because I was real little and she was ten years older than me. And so I would be with Preston Bolter, who was this real tall guy...and we were the soldiers, you know, we had to stand there. We couldn't really participate. She had a - -she had an old mule, put everybody on that mule, and she always had her plays written about that mule. FB -- Helen Thomas used to do this too, she had these plays, I remember, put on these shows for kids. KB -- They played together she played all over the neighborhood. ML -- We had these Army blankets we pulled across this old kind of clothesline. Moderator -- And it was safe, it was a safe environment for kids. FB -- Yes, it was. KW -- Oh, heavens yes, it was. FB -- I want to inject something here we haven't covered yet. And you're talking about the people here in the '29 and 30's they had income and this kind of thing. It's not generally known, but the state - Texas was broke during the Depression and issued warrants. They issued warrants, which was a promissary note that when they got some money they would pay you. And you could do two or three things: one of them was that you could take them to a bank in Bryan and you could discount them and they'd give you the money for them or you could use them as collateral and borrow money against them. And I think that my recollection of it was it was almost two years that my daddy never did get a check. Isn't that about right? KW -- Along in '33, '34...along in there.... FB -- And that's not necessarilly bad because he was the only one in his family of about six people that were working, and they were all up inEeast Texas. But we were still eating, driving a car, this kind of thing. But it wasn't that everybody here had a job that nobody else did, these people had a job that they weren't getting any money for. KW -- They could borrow on it though with that warrant. The banks would discount it. Well... one of the things that I remember, is what was about to happen in the 1930's. We were in WWII, and I think that's the biggest thing in my life, even though I was too young.... how naive everybody around here was, how they considered what was about to happen. Adolf Hitler was simply a measure of the evil nature of German people. They never looked at the broader things, WWI and how the Varsaille Treaty set it up for Adolf Hitler . They didn't talk about that. Germans were just the enemy they had to fight. And these were suppossed to be educated people at this school. But that's the extent of their examination. KB -- I think that was the whole country. KW -- The whole country, that's exactly right. But I don't under stand that. FB -- I lived here and went to work in Houston building ships. Anybody in retrospect knows the only reason we were down here building ships was because we were gonna get in the war. But they didn't talk about it. KW -- Settling WWI by the French and the British opened the door for Adolf Hitler and nobody ever talked about that. They thought Adolf Hitler and the Germans were simply bad people. But anyway... Moderator -- Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate what ya'll have done today. It was really very interesting. I sure do appreciate all this. Remarks: Memory Lane: a/PA-P.4.W City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Interview No. Name Interview te Interviewer Interview length Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd Describe Photos Oral History Stage Sheet }:tz.td interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by J r � (name) l Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on � .5 I 1 Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date Remarks: Memory Lane: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project ,p Interview No. Name FY GUI k D ir o,,,) i1 Interview date Interviewer Interview length Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Final copies: Typed by Oral History Stage Sheet Sent to interviewee on I fq Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by (name) (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date Remarks: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Memory Lane: K ry, ry Name I UM_l.1 Interview Inte date iew No. Interviewer 0 Interview length Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by (name) (name) (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date Remarks: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Memory Lane: Yy \ . p U5 Leis Interview No. Name bYl OX vat kx Interview date Interviewer Interview length Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - if yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by (name) (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date This is City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project I'm interviewing for the .dx 114 Miss, s., Dr., Etc.) 11 . Today is � 1' -' q (month) (day) (year) / -[ time (Mr., Mr., This interview is taking place in Room / g 7 of The (- ( �u ( i at 1300 George Bush Dr. g College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is identifiable on the tape recorder. The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. with : 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews (Name of Interviewee) 7j Q� 7 . 1 / O PdiW 8. . rtJ 9. J 10. The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT 11_ 12. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Confer�nce,Center A vj y o t V tt V --S.: `/ U<) /I, 5 Interviewer (signature) Date ; - / - C a Interviewer (Please Print) HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. k T T a i o o j (Plinth r i�vv Signature . . d✓f Interviewee Name Address i - A // Interviewer (Please Print) Signatu e of Int{$rviewer Place of Interview List of photos. documents. maps. etc. Telephone Date of Birth Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial In progress HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. f — i ' � (•4 ease ( print) ureof ". - viewee c Interviewer (Please Print) SignaturJ of Interviewer Place of Interview List of photos, documents, maps, etc. Name Address Telephone Date of Birth Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. 1 L am Intervi4wer (P eitse Print) Signatur of Int rviewer Place of Interview List of photos. documents. mans. etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET Interviewee (Please pri t) Signature of Interviewee Name Address (( t/ Telephone Date of Birth AFC /G / f qL Place of Birth 1 ti r/ INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. iv/ q Le /Q ,�cf Interviewee (Please print) 01(A [ALI Intervi (Ple4se Print) 7 Signatureeof Inte viewer Place of Interview List of photos, documents. mans. etc. Signet / e of Interviewee Name i -3,o7 Address Date Initial Telephoni Date of Birth Are" a lq, Place of Birth f {J us f✓n j eA y INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city.