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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTransportation Panel Group 07City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project This is Ii, oldf Today is r;/ /b , 199 (month) (day) (year) I'm interviewing for the s time Mrs . 6AL a Crocke ; Q f/ .. �V1 (Mr., Mrs., r-. �-l ] or:ker /�H 1 I 1 /'fir g Lam. Nb / /QI1) Miss, Ms., Dr., Etc.) This interview is taking place in Room /0 6 of The C01 ,- e: nc CecL— at 1300 George Bush Dr. College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is identifiable on the tape recorder. with The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews - 7-1 (Name of Interviewee) 1 . (71/4 jj / n� rr n f t P r 7. 2. 1` pp � 1 or ke r 8. 3. g g . 00)/nmei 4. 5. 6. 9_ 10. 11. 12. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Confer nce Cen er : dv ory Committee. Interviewer (signature)/ Date I V AA a olCI 6er -1111, Interviewer (Please Pr nt Place of Interview List of photos. documents. mans. etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. -, (,3 ti // 7 .0/9 c� A ' Interviewee (Please print Signature of Interviewee IS/ZS' 914 s1 - S - 303 liar '71 `6 (7er Interviewer (Pease Print) ignature of Cer‘ r Name Addres 2 - 47> 7 8 Telephone Date of Birth Place of Birth /7`J/ C _ INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial In progress List of photos, documents, maps, etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. ri _AAP it' , ,' d-v T ieee ( se int) Signature of Interviewee �/f.-1 1/1 Name 6er , 107 . Address / el4 7 7 F Telephone y-oy) 72f /e x Date of Birth 49 .$ 7 ' erg' A- Place of Birth,,e tf4tM Interviewer (please Print) Signature of Interviewer C ../ / Co kre ric Cett�Pr Place of Interview INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial In progress HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. 1 HO/ L AA1b Tr,e7 Int� (Please print) Signature of Interviewee 75, 73 Flo L Name 6)- 7- Los 1 ( 1 0 L s e.S 7)g Address Telephone Date of Birth (-7-0 -3 1 Place of Birth 6 J A O)._V I�1 C i e r /✓! Intervie (P) Print) Signature 7 rviewer fAt (ar_ Place Interview List of photos, documents, mans. etc. INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial Irks: Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Memory Lane: rrmieW Oral History Stage Sheet NOM Interview No Name � %ve I nterview date Q 14 '`/( Interviewer Oa v'd r (YIiVi Interview length Interview Place YYY . I O10' Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on 0 - /4- Received Yes No Date Signed 1 to Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Pages Date (name) Sent to interviewee on �' 1 1 c ' ( , Received from interviewee on V Copy editing and second audit check by Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2,, Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to binGlery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date 1�. (name) cw Pages Date Pages Date ,rks: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Memory Lane: I Y (�I� API) I tahf r� interview No. �'it Name ite It 1! t'[ interview date Interviewer 9 f Vid l vI ivt(Ji interview length Interview Place YW) - l Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal fo . Given to interviewee on 1' (o -6 169 Received Yes No Date Signed d - I le - i Jp Restrictions - if yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: , First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by Oral History Stage Sheet Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2' Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date lam -i -4 am e) (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date - irks: Memory Lane: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Interview No. Name f'J, a �� II _(� Interview date q" lb/ -c7/ Interviewer -MALI -at( I i y.(J?(' interview length Interview Place yyvi . 1C U Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on --r- 110 - q(f Received Yes No Date Signed LI - Iv —rl le Restrictions- if yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by Oral History Stage Sheet MM vi � \ L q ame) (name) Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2} Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date Oral History Transportation 4 -16 -96 Mary Tucker rm. 106 Moderator - David Gerling Interviewees - BB Holland Blocker Trant Glada Trant Crocker >`kYat cop Tape 1 DG - Introduction, signing permission sheet, name tags DG - Thank you a lot and we're here today to get ya'll's recollection on early transportation in College Station and the surrounding area. And this would consist of horse & buggy, wagon, bicycle, roller skates, trolley, railroad, automobile, airplane, taxi, bus, hitchhiking, and really any, any, way to get around that maybe I didn't list before. Any of your recollections. And we're looking at areas from the 1920's, '30's, and up to '40's, late '40's, 1950's. GC - Not before 1920? DG - Sure, if you can.. GC - Well, I can go way back before 1920. DG - OK, you can just start where your recollection begins and then bring us up to the future run. Just so it makes it easier for Mary Tucker to transcribe this later, I would ask for you to speak clearly , and slowly and one at a time so that way when she is typing it later it will be a lot easier for her to get everybody's focal point. So, Mrs. Crocker, if you'd like to start. GC - You think I should start? DG - And, tell us a little bit about yourself and.. . GC - Well, I'm Glada Trant Crocker and I was not born here, but I don't remember when I came. I came first when I was about... before I was 2, then I left again and then came back when I was about 3 1/2. And, for the most part I have lived in Dallas until I got my Aggie, Alfred Parker, in 1930. And about the transportation, I took this little thing that you sent, and the first time I rode in an automobile was in Oklahoma. I don't remember that. That was before I was a year old, but the first automobile that my family owned was a Maxwell and that was about 1911 or '12; way back. And, your question about how did your family get to this area: My grandfather Philip Trant, William Philip Trant, moved here I think before the post office was even set up, and they had a big hotel across from where the Presbyterian church is down town now. And it burned, and then they moved out on Dext Street. And he is getting ready to correct me for what I said wrong. Ha Ha. MT - That's all right, you can go back and forth. I can distinguish your voices. GC - The Episcopal Church. I am sorry, you are right. It's what we call the old post office in Bryan. When you say the old Bryan Post Office, people don't go back that far. You are right. Thank you. And, about transportation here, the first thing that I can remember: We had what we called a Jitney which was a T -model Ford, you know. You'd ring up the operator and they'd find the Jitney and send them over here, I guess for the train at 12:00 or 4:00 or whatever it was. They were always there to meet you when you came in and you told them when you were coming in, when you left, and they were alwo■ there. DG - Oh, so the Jitney was kind of like a taxi service? GC - Yes, it was a taxi service, but it was called a Jitney. It even had Jitney on the on the door on the little leather thing I am so sorry that I can't remember that dear man's name. He was crippled, but he was always there no matter if it was the noon train, the midnight train, whatever it was, he was always there; clean up until I married. About the transportation for the Aggies to get to Bryan: Girls- there was a trolley. I don't remember the inter -urban when it was horse pulled. I don't go quite back that far, but I remember the first one that was electric, and then I remember about three times it was updated before they finally took it off. And the Aggies traveled back and forth by thumb which nobody would... stop and pick an Aggie up, you know, no matter what in those days, and if you could get by with it, you'd spend the night with somebody and you could get away from your parents long enough that you could have a date after 12:00, or they stayed after 12:00. They would try to catch the 4:59, and if they missed that, occasionally they would walk. And, I remember the first date that I had with my husband. He did stay late. I was having him in town, and we... well, he stayed late and we just fell in love that first night and that is all there was to that. But, another boy was there, and he had to guide him all the way back down the highway, asleep, and they got back to college about 6:15 that morning. Of course, Mama's not here or I wouldn't tell that. Ha Ha chuckle. But, of course, there were horses buggies, and I can remember that my mother had a beautiful horse and a nice buggy. I can even remember when we moved back to Bryan for a while; we even had a surrey with fringe on the top. And, I can remember back here we had a car very early. My Dad liked to go to places. We even went to Florida back in 19.. . BT - Oh, gosh. DG - When were you born? - mumble- GC - In 1925 we went in a T- model Ford, but mainly we used. ..I don't remember that there were a lot of bicycles, I just don't remember that way back then that there was a lot of bicycles, but there was walking, people walked. BT - That was the major mode of transportation. GS - Yeah and they, Aggies of course, as I said, there was some, you know, there was traffic that much, but anybody would stop to pick up a load of Aggies going in any direction. But as far as the transportation went there was no, of course there was no reason for any buses in Bryan back then. That's about all I can talk to you about transportation. DG - You mentioned several times about hitchhiking or, like catching a ride. Tell us some stories about. That's what it was called back then was thumbing? GC - Yes, oh yeah. That's where you get that gig 'em. Yes, that's where that comes from, that thumb. It's got to come from there, because you get out there and you thumb it, and of course when a person comes by then everyone was out there thumbing it. But, you Aggies was the first I can remember, but if anyone started from Bryan to A &M, they would have certain cars by how those boys would get there and they were very conscientious that the ones that got there first got the first ride. The ones who got there second, they seemed to catch up with them. But I have made a lot of trips out to 2 Aggieland just to see what was going on out there. And I'd have them hanging out of the car, all over, and you would take... you could take, and get some girlfriends, and we'd go riding out. We used to come out and watch the boys march into supper to the hall, that way, the big thing on Sunday night. And, the boys had to be there. They had to be in uniform, so at 6:00 they could march in to suppers and it was a fight to whole. And I had a special parking place and it was fun. But, you didn't, the girls used their cars, the boys were not allowed to have cars at A &M. They could not have, or a time or two I heard that a senior could for senior week or something. But, they were not allowed to have automobiles, and so when you had a date with a boy, he would come to your house and you would use your car and most of the time he would drive it. You know Daddy'd say, "You drive," you know (ha ha). And that is the way until about 1930, and it began to get a little different after that. Cars began to come in, but back then there was just no cars at A &M that the boys owned. We were coming out this morning and I was shocked! There were the cars everywhere, you know, and all the changes, but of course I had transportation (ha ha). But that is about all I have to speak to you about that. DG - Did you ever travel by train? GC - Oh, yes when we lived here I used to be very tiny, and I had a size 3 foot. And since we couldn't buy shoes in Bryan I had to go to Houston to buy my shoes. So, I'd get on the train and go down and get some shoes and come back on the next train. We had, before I married, we had the Sunbeam, then. And it came through at 12:00, at noon, but it stopped at College Station and it stopped at Bryan many years. You could ride, I think, for about a dime from College Station to Bryan. You could get on the Sunbeam train, and then there was a midnight train going back. Well, the boys, a lot of the boys would ride the train going back at night but.. . DG - Did you ever travel to Houston or Dallas on that Sunbeam? GC - Oh yes. I left Bryan, we left Bryan when we married on a Sunbeam. We had a bunch of Aggies that were going on some kind of a trip and they gave us a hard time. Ha Ha. DG - What was it like to travel on the Sunbeam or on any train? GC - It was great, really it was wonderful. I wish... I think it's something we made a sad mistake about, letting our railroads go. It was the train we were not used to, used to we had to have the windows open and the cold of the windows would get in our eyes and you were dirty and everything. But, the Sunbeam was closed, and it was cool someway, and I don't know how, but it was very pleasant to ride on. And it was fast. It didn't stop for every place you know. And so, the other trains, I guess they're about the only trains I ever do remember riding out of here after it started, because it went both ways. We had the two railroads, the IGN, which was I don't know, it was just sort of a step child then, and we just had the Southern Pacific which everybody rode more or less unless you wanted to go to Atlanta or somewhere out there. Well, you didn't ride the IGN and then finally got to where it was a lot. DG - Did they ever mix up freight cars with passenger cars on the same train? GC - Not in the Southern Pacific. No, I didn't see any. The Sunbeam was called the streamline - it was a beautiful train. DG - So it was more of an express - type train? GC - Yes. It was. 3 BT - There were two schedules for Sunbeam: One of them left Dallas and stopped at College Station and went to Houston. And that was the only stop in between. And then one left Houston and stopped in College Station and went to Dallas and that was the 6:00 train and maybe the 12:00 train, I am not sure. And then there was another Sunbeam that stopped at a lot places. It stopped at Bryan and at College Station. I don't recall it stopping at Navasota, but they both looked alike. They were the same cars and the same GC - Well, they changed schedules occasionally at one time because when we left here when we got married, we left on the 2:00 train. DG - 2:00 in the afternoon? GC - Uh huh. 2:00 in the afternoon, but it used to come through here at noon at first, I think, but then it was 12:00, because we had to get married at 1:00 so we could get to the train at 2:00. BT - When you got married it was not the Sunbeam. GC - 1930. BT - I don't think so, because I think the sunbeam didn't start until 37. I could be wrong. GC - Well, I could be wrong too, 'cause I.. . BT - Where was the trolley stationed at in College Station? I remember where it was in Bryan, but I don't remember where I got off as I rode out here. GC- Do you know where the Groats live out there? It's towards Northgate. DG - Didn't the trolley, I don't know where the store is, but my mother talks about catching the trolley at the old YMCA building on campus and going up to.. . GC - I think it made a circle, but I think I can't remember riding that trolley out here, but one time I know from there, 'cause we had a car. And ever since I started driving when I was twelve years old. So I didn't ride. Now, the boys would ride the trolley and the dates, but I don't believe I ever did ride the trolley out there. But one time, I came out here, a group of us with picnics. I remember big old baskets and we got off the trolley and we had a big picnic somewhere on the campus. But I do know that it made a circle, 'cause I remember that we got off I think where Northgate is. Because I remember I could look over there where the boys slept and they lived just outside of I don't even know now. I think it's in the middle of the highway and they had a big white house and they lived out there. I just don't remember that. I rode the trolley. I can remember seeing it, and I remember Dad talking about, "Well, I may have a horse pulling a trolley." I can remember that. I don't think I've even seen a picture of a horse pulling a trolley. I know that does not make sense, but I remember Dad talking about a horse pulling a trolley. DG - It started out pulling it, being pulled by a trolley. BB - My mother used to ride the trolley to school every morning. They didn't have a school out here in College Station. She'd walk out here somewhere around the YMCA building, and get off at what is now elementary. GC - What is your mother's maiden name? BB - Dylan. DG - So she lived on campus? BB - Well, my grandfather lived just across the railroad tracks, across from the Academic Building DG -OK 4 BB - When the old Creamery used to sit, they lived in a house right there. My grandfather milked cows there for 37 years. BT - There was a ring of houses all around the campus and I believe some of them, the University bought some of them and used them for people to live in, is that not correct? GC - Well, they moved them off the Campus. BT - And then they moved them. DG - Well, when they moved them off the campus I hear that they sold them to individuals who would move them off the campus and make 'em private residents. There was a whole row of houses on the campus itself. GC - Yeah. Dean Kyle lived there and Dr. Bolton. BB - The area across from Kyle Field, right in front of Kyle Field, all of that was houses on both sides, where the MSC is, all through there were houses. GC - Collated with the President's house down there. BB - There was a hospital and the house my grandparents lived in is still on campus and still being lived in except it has been moved 3 times. It's at the corner of 2818 and George Bush, with a pointed roof a pinkish pointed roof that sits kind of back. It's not the big white one. The little white one, but that was my grandparents' house for years. I have pictures when it was sitting over there and you can still see where the house by the trees, the oak trees. DG - So, your mother would walk over and catch the trolley at the MSC to go to Bryan? BB - Well, around the YMCA. DG - YMCA. I'm sorry. GC - MSC wasn't built yet. BT - MSC area was all houses. GC - I know there was a loop, there was a loop some where, but I can't because we didn't drive. We tried to not drive cars where the trolley was because it was... Those T- models gave you problems if you hit where the rails for the trolleys were. BB - Has anyone researched where the trolley actually went on campus? DG - We have some research to where it came onto campus, over to the YMCA area and there was a. . . I believe you're right. There was a loop or a turnaround. GC - I think there was a loop in there and then it went back. I could be wrong, but it seems to me, looking back now, that the first place that it stopped... no, it stopped at Hillcrest between Bryan and College. There was a little place called Hillcrest, and then it didn't stop anymore until it got to, I think it's North Gate area now. Because it came in that, because... See, Texas Avenue was not there we just had Old College Ave, and it was just a ... BB - Did the trolley stop at Union Hill? That's the area by Martin's Rest. GC - Yeah, and it was only a mile from the Union bill to HillCrest, wasn't it? BB - Mile, mile and a half. GC - Children had to be picked up and brought into school. There were no schools out laying in this area for children. They were all brought into Bryan, even Kurten, after they got beyond the 5th grade, the Kurten area, you know. So, the children were all brought into Bryan to school and one way or the other, and the outlying.. . BB - We had several common school districts. 5 GC - Yeah. But after about the 5th grade, well then the kids come in. I know from Harvey, the Peters' all came in and we were amused that they had this car and those kids drove that car to school. But, it was... Pm sure there was a loop too, and I can't, in my mind I never did ride it, and I can't figure out where it was. Except I know that when I would drive, I wouldn't want to drive where that trolley was. BB - Cavitt Street in Bryan was the main trolley route into Bryan. I.. . DG - Did you want to add something? Anytime you want to jump in, if something jumps in your mind, just jump right in. BT - The trolley, when it got to Bryan, the driver would switch ends on the thing because it came to the station at Bryan and you could drive it from either end, so it may have a stop somewhere instead of a loop. Because, I remember we used to go as a little kid and we would watch them gather up everything from one end of the trolley and go to the other and he would drive it. The Trolley Station in Bryan was right behind oh... on 26th Street, just about a 1/2 block from main street. After you would cross the railroad from Main Street. GC - There is the telephone, the Eagle used to be there. BT - The Eagle office was there and there was a pay telephone there that everyone could use. Pll tell you a story about her if I may... The Aggies could not go around out of uniform. They had to always wear uniform, and my mother wanted to meet Alfred in something besides uniform because she said the Aggies all looked alike in uniform; So he, I guess he rode the trolley, he got to the trolley station in a white linen suit and sort of hid inside the station, trembling with fear. GC - I can't imagine my husband doing anything that was out of order. He was such a precise thing except for me, bless his heart he would. Oh, talk about transportation and Aggies, they had out on a little farm out about 2 miles for a while, and they'd raised some hogs once upon a time, and he bought a Ford, and it just had a platform in the back and a seat up front, and a steel wheel, it was a model T -and we called it the slop -truck b/c he'd came and picked up stuff from the La Salle hotel and all in big barrels -fed those hogs. Well, I had a brother, well he wasn't old enough to drive, was he? BT -Yes, I learned to drive when Dad .... GC- I know we all learned to drive -I learned to drive standing up. BT -I want the record to show that I'm the baby of the family and I'm a lot younger than these old people. GC -and spoiled.- anyway he drove the slop truck and would go into to and meet Alfred at the Interurban to bring him out those 2 miles -that was a sight for him to, he'd get in that old slop truck and go meet (Alfred) bring it out there... GC -No I drove. I didn't even sit down and drive. I drove a 2 mile Ford standing up- 'cause I could not and looked through the steering wheel, uh -There wasn't anything illegal about that. 6 BT -I drove a couple of years before they required you to go in and have a thing called a driver's license. DG-Do you remember when that was that they started requiring a driver's license? BT- Mid '38, '37 or '38. I remember what my first one cost. It was 50 cents and good for five years. DG -Good griefl a lot has changed. BT -Do you want another transportation story? DG -Sure! Yes, that is why we are here to day. BT -Well, as I said. Pm a lot younger that these other people in my family, and I am going to tell you a very early story about an airplane. a plane was forced to land over on the west side of the railroad, vacant land then, maybe it was a little muddy and the plane nosed over and it broke the propeller. The next day an airplane... now in these days, an airplane must have been about '30 or '31. My sister had already married and was away from home; and, so I. Let's say it was '31, when you heard an airplane you stopped whatever you were doing and ran outside to look at it. If you were eating, you ran outside to see if you could see it. If you were reading the bible before dinner, you stopped and ran outside and looked up in the sky to see this airplane and so any ways, we heard this airplane and so we all ran outside, and it got closer and closer and my mother said, "I think it's going to hit the house ", and it landed in a pasture behind us. and they were bringing a propeller for this airplane that was broken. They had he propeller over the side of my mother's car, now she had a 1928 Chevrolet so this was about '30 or '31. We took that propeller and I went with them 'cause I was too small to... and we went with the man to see the plane. And they put the propeller on and on the way back, I got to telling him about how much Pd like to ride in an airplane and we had everything all set and we were just going to take off make a 100, and come back and land. My mother found out and she stopped and them.... GC -Now that was a bad experience, that I had out there. This was sort of a hill. It's out there sort of like Coulter Field, you know, not far from Coulter field, one time I had some seniors survey and it was time to tie the , and there was nothing stopped, everything stopped with a Trant reunion , so I couldn't go, and one of my friends was spending the time with me and a plane landed out there ,and she and I were out there by ourselves, on that hill, of course you did not think about being afraid of them. And I thought it was a one time broke down and got myself engaged to a university of Texas guy -don't know how I did that. But I thought it was him And she ran out to greet him and this man almost knocked her down, came into the little house out back,and there came this car, this line up there, and picked 'em up and gathered them and sailed off with 'em. So we figured out later they had to be some (changed tape side)... It was scary.... But we've getting away from A &M's transportation. 7 DG-Mr. Holland, it looks like you have quite a bit on trains over there. BB -The sunbeam did start officially in June 1936, no officially in 1937, pardon me. GC -Well what did we have? Some kind of streamlines BB -No, it didn't streamline until '36. It was just an ordinary train, b/c it talks about it here, and I think it was just ... GC -I'm sure you're right. But they sure do... I will tell you one thing they really have got wrong, that A &M has nothing to do with the transportation. I wish I knew how to correct it. They've got Revielle just as long as they can be 'cause my husband took care of Revielle one semester when he was down here and he graduated in 1930. They have got Revielle coming here after 1930. That is just not right -the original Revielle was here before I married. DG-and you married when? GC -1930, and he graduated in 1930, and we married in October, but Revielle was here before that time. BB -The sunbeam, actually the new train was called the hustler, and the nighttime train was called the sunbeam. The new one came into College station at (12:10), hit Bryan at 11:56, so it did not take too long. GC -No, we called it the 12:00 train. BB -and then the sunbeam, I think came around 8:00 at night. 7:30 -8:00. In fact 8: 'cause they'd never light the bonfire 'til the sunbeam came. That's when they'd light bonfire. GC -Well that is when I rode the sunbeam. It's when I took Daddy to (Mayo's) during the war and I left here about that time. BB -I have a scale model of it at home, a brass model, one of the more streamliner trains of its time. Unfortunately, they cut it up for scrap instead of preserving it. BT -It started about the time that movie was made. BB -That is why they sell 'em, the train lines began to have the streamliners and zephyrs and soon and competition. GC -Well I do not remember calling it the hustler, just referred to it as the Sunbeam. I came back home on the sunbeam from Dallas -we moved to Dallas , and when I'd came back home, for a long time,we did not have a car. OK, I think that's all I can think of for transportation. 8 BB- The IGN had a fashionable service, I can remember it coming in at night real late, I do not know what time it was, must have been around 1:00 am or so but it would come in and that was the 1 IGN train that came through there, I believe. I'd spend the night my grandparents who lived right down the road. I could hear the passengers getting on and off that thing real early in the morning and late at night. DG -So that'd be the one stop for the IGN? GC -Well I had a horrible memory of an IGN. It was in 1930 and I had a boyfriend that was in the navy and he would came in on that train and I don't remember, but uh, it would have passengers and freight occasionally IGN would do that, but this passenger train that was coming in would come to the curb just before it gets to the station, and they had the prettiest old station there, it was a beautiful old victorian station, and they just let it.., but anyway, there was a body they'd put out there or one of those things, you' know, to go down to the bottom, and it was a black man and they had rolled it up on one of those things and locked the thing down and the lock did not hold, and that train was coming around the curb and this guy was on the steps ready to get out to greet me, and this thing started moving toward that train and I did not weigh a hundred pounds, but I began screaming "bloody murder" and I grabbed on to that thing,and he jumped out and and we stopped that thing just about that far from that train. I get cold chills now thinking about it, I was so scared, I am sure I would not have turned it loose, and no telling what would have happened to me, I was just frozen to it, you know? Try to hold that big old thing with a full grown man's body & a box, you know? It was pretty frightening But the IGN did have a combination. They had... DG - Passenger & freight? GC - Yeah, that's what this was, and it was something about late in the afternoon, I can't... BB - I came along, it was in the middle of the night, that was during the late '30's. DG - Did your grandparents also own a vehicle of any kind or how did they get around? BB - Um - my grandparents on the Dylan side of the family I can remember my grandfather talking about moving here. In a model T truck, one of the first model T trucks & they moved from Rogers to College Station & talked about having to get off the truck & cut tree limbs off between here and Hearne and get the truck through to College Station. Of course, it was not paved either it was really rough travel. GC - A lot of that was deep sand between here and Hearne, I mean it didn't have to be mud, it was deep sand. 9 BB - Uh, my, uh grandparents had a model T, I know 'cause that's what my mother learned to drive in, the 1st time she got in the car, kind of slipped out of the house & started it up on her own. I think she was about 12 and there used to be a cinder, black cinder road around, right beside the railroad track on the other side from where we are, and if you got here early you remember there was a big hump over the railroad and some how got that old model T up over that hump and she said she was scared to death and she made that circle back, anyway that railroad hump was quite something at that time. Three tracks across it. DG - Across the bridge here at University it had three tracks going across there? BB - Yeah, one side line track, and the main line, and the IGN line. DG - OK GC - They were close together right there uh, I know there was a road that went to Jones bridge, it had one of those big humps and we called it the "thrill" and we'd go out and take that thrill ride, you know. BB - Well, this one was a thrill ride too. Couple people got airborne. GC - had his own plantation down Jones bridge and used to go down there a lot, but that was a big curve there, now they've got the highway going, the road going on the other side of the railroad. But going round that curve, there was always somebody getting killed on that curve. And there were several Aggies that I knew, 3 that I can think of that got killed during the time that I was, you know, dating, on trains, you know, they'd try to catch a ride on those freights and fall and I know one boy that was really in our group and couldn't imagine him trying to catch a freight train, and ride on it anyway; he was such a tired little soul and he did though and it killed him, you know, he'd fall & fall, and they'd try to catch you, you just couldn't keep from trying to catch a freight train; cause they would slowdown, you know and then they'd; but, uh- during the years there were a few Aggies that were killed. BB - Getting back to the thumbing of rides - The main places to catch a ride in Bryan was over around Northgate and then they'd come into Bryan, say for football weekend and the go to 25th St. where the Central Baptist Church is. That was one of the main "thumbing" places if you were going to Waco, Dallas, and so on, and over here around East Gate was the main "thumbing" place for Houston. You could go out there on football weekends, maybe see hundreds of Aggies running up, thumbing for rides. GC - My mother when, we adopted a baby, I called and told her that we adopted a baby, so it was the weekend of the A &M, Baylor game, they were stacked up there around the church, you know, and my mother had a new car and she had, part of the time her hands were crippled up w/ arthritis, and she stopped out there and she said: "I'm not going to 10 Waco, I'm going to East Texas, Pm going over to as far as I can and then I'm going to turn North, and as many of you can go," she's by herself, "As many of you can get in here and go, but I want one of you to drive, but I'm going to tell you how to do it." And mother said that the car filled up and when they came in to our drive way, well we had come in from a buying trip, right in behind then, and she still had two Aggies in the car with her and it was getting a little dark, and Now that's off of the beaten path and they were trying to get somewhere up there and Alfred said " Pm going to go take them over to Jacksonville, they'll never in the world catch a ride over here in the dark, 'cause they had this and they were afraid, he said "I'm going to take 'em to Jacksonville and put them on the main road ", so he drove to Jacksonville 15 miles and put 'em out over there. You know and mother said, "I'm going back home if you want to get here by 3 o'clock Sun afternoon," and one of 'em came. He got back so he drove mother back home, but that's the way it was. If you were and 'cause when you stop there, the one that was next in line and an Aggie did not dare to get out a line and try to say "no I was here 1st" 'cause they all knew who was there 1st, but they would take 'em right down the line and it was wonderful for the boys, you' know, get out there on that main road and go to Houston and DG -There was no fear at all? GC -No fear at all, no, no fear at all. I know many times I came up when I lived in Beaumont early and I came up to Bryan alone, because an illness or something, and going back, I used to have to go back through Houston, when there was not a bridge over the Trinity River. And many times, I picked up a lone Aggie, you know and take him to Houston and absolutely nothing to, if he had an A &M uniform, he had a ride in just about anybody's car. You just did not pass up Aggies car. and if you were full, you'd let him hold the baby on the lap. You'd put him in that car one way or the other. It was a good, it was a good time. BB -All the Aggies were in uniform, you saw them on the side of the road. GC -Oh, yeah. I do not suppose they had over 60, ever in that Gold Brick bunch. If they were not able to, they had 2 dormitories 2 big white bldgs, off back there by SBISA Hall, you do not remember 'em. Um, 'cause they were gone before then and they were civilians, they were handicapped one way or the others, but they would let, I think about 60 of them. I think that is the most they had but they were called "Gold Brickers" I wish I brought my ashtray. I've got an ashtray. I'm going to give it to this cadet thing, going to get my rings too. Um, but the very 1st thing that I ever remember being a souvenir that was made for A &M, I have it. W.C. Mitchell, Mr. Hun Mitchell, was head of the um Architecture dept and this was his son and Ed Crenshaw went into insurance business when they got out of college. Ed got out of SMU and (Scipt ?) got out of here. So I was their 1st secretary, 'bout 16 years old and 17 yrs old and (Script ?) ordered a whole bunch of different things, for A &M souvenirs, how as going to get rich selling 'em at the ballgames and everything and he was, they cam to the office and he unpacked 'em and he said "Well, I guess you go with so many Aggies you out of have the 1st one of these, and 11 handed me that ashtray. and all around the centers, it's got the infantries and all the insignias of everything . and then right on one side it's got a little gold brick and it was painted gold brick, but these boys were called "Gold Brickers" and we did not date 'em. I had two friends out there, but you dated boys in uniforms, women always do I guess. But I have that ashtray and Pm going to give it to this place out there their going to DG-yes, of course. BB- My Dylan grandparents came in about 1918. '17, '18 and my Holland grandparents came about a year later. And my grandpa Holland was a section foreman for TNM &O which was of course was part of the Southern Pacific System and later taken over by Southern Pacific and this is the section house in 1926 when they won the award for the best kept section house on the Home Alliance Program and the section house is where the cement plant is over here on Wellborn road. There was a section house located right there and at this time it was yellow trim w/ brown eventually it was green trim w/ brown before they tore it down. DG-And what exactly is a section house? Is that where the ordered? BB -This is where the ordered my grandfather had to land between here and Hearne, and I do not remember exactly how far south it was. Uh, but anyway, he was in charge of the railroad track through here. This is where, this old house here is where he kept the side car, you know those little pre -cars that ran up and down preparing, some of them pump and some of them ran on gas thing. There were also crew houses, regular houses, see them down here, where some of the workers GC -This is where the guy in charge lives. BB -I can barely remember going into this house. GC -I can remember that house. I can remember that house. BT -Tell us how old you are. BB -62. I was born in '34. GC -I had enough of that lip out on a, let's see uh, where they had the uh, Ostrich. Do you remember when we had Ostrich here? I doubt that. BB -I can barely remember the A &M Zoo when you go down Farm Road 69. GC -Yeah. That is what the beginning of it. I think was the Ostrich and was out there and he was sort of head keeper of that area out there and he lived at there 12 a while and I used to come out there and they'd say they're dangerous, she'd better get away from 'em. You know, but BB -one of the highlights of my year eleven years when I was little was going to my grandparents who lived over here on the railroad tracks and watch the specials come in for football games. I mean the "special" trains would fill up the tracks all on the side tracks and so on bringing people from Austin, or Dallas, or Houston. DG -So there were a lot of side tracks out there? BB -Yeah. GC -I was in a train wreck on one of those specials going to Austin. BT -you mentioned the IGN, and taking the midnight train. I've taken that train -we had an Aunt who lived -my father's sister, lived in Kansas and her husband had worked for a railroad company and she came, by the way -we had a family reunion every year we had 100 of them, this is the last year and she on the trains came to the family reunion. She came every year from Kansas and she had a pass. But to ride on that pass she had to get on the ride on that midnight train, and I GC -Well, you are lucky because it got to where you had to go later. BT -Later on, it got to where it only stopped in Caldwell. GC -It was me to get to Hearne. I had to get to Hearne and when I'd come home from Towes and Pd have about 4 hours to wait in Hearne, and uh, they'd all nearly always meet me in Hearne. DG-During the early years how did y'all get across creeks and rivers? In vehicles or horses -Well I guess horses you could just walk across. GC -The horses you, one time with Daddy, I went w/ Daddy back over to Grimes one time and we were in a wagon. I don't know what on earth I was doing there, but they had this flooded you know pretty well, not way up, but it was too high. and we stopped at the river and Daddy said "I think you better get out and run up and down the road and play a little bit, exercise your legs" and I thought, well, I did not know what that was what he was trying to pull. So I ran up the road and I looked back and daddy was tying that seat on that wagon -he did not want me to see that on the wagon, but then he decided he'd put me on one of the horses, and carry me across, so he unhooked one of the horses from the wagon, put me on that and took me across and boy that wagon was going this way and the horses this way, ya know and he got across there and I got across and then got back and I said, "why didn't you tell me you wanted to tie the seat on -I'd have helped you." but, you know, it was a, that was down here and crossing 'cause they finally built a bridge I know on the Trinity River, they had a log, made out of 13 logs, you drive your car on that, then for one car and a couple of men, and they had a cable run across and depending on those 2 men to hold that thing on course and they'd pull you across. I don't mean the cable would move, you'd go, your hands along the cable - that wasn't fun either. DG-Oh, so it's more like a ferry. GC -It was a ferry, you know, built out of logs room for one car. I got in the middle of that thing and wondered where my brain was to put my car on that thing, but I made it across there, but when I got over there I drove miles and miles and miles and back through Houston coming' back, I wasn't going to get on that log thing anymore, but, uh, you know,uh, people are peculiar human beings, they going to find a way to do what they want to do,uh. They would float even a buggy, you know. They would hold to the horses and then they would try to load it down and put sand. I know I heard somebody talking about they put bags of things in the buggy to make it a little heavier so it wouldn't sway from the horses and they just think of everything and get across and I can remember there were very few bridges, there wasn't a bridge between Kurten and Iola up there. There wasn't a bridge there, but one when they built Ferguson, there wasn't, wasn't even one on the Trinity River going, you know, out . I can remember that and I can remember - I can't remember when Jones bridge was built. Jones bridge -I can remember when a new one was put there, but I can't remember the new some kind of bridge -but every time they would have a flood it would wash away. But I had an uncle that owned a lot of land on both sides of it and they'd, but um, there's a lot of those bridges on the Brazos that weren't there. I can remember when there wasn't a bridge between here and Caldwell, and I don't know how they -but they had pretty good size ferries, you know, and then some of the worked with a cable that would wind, you know, I never did ride that one but I knew there was one up there, but uh, there was a, I can remember there was a bridge in Waco and there was the Jones bridge, I believe. BT- Koppe's Bridge -where is Koppe Bridge? GC -And then, there wasn't one in Navasota area and I don't know what in Houston or hot, you know, where it went down there. BT -Now there was a bridge across the Navasota River, it was just on that Brazos River, near Washington -the Brazos. I can remember when we rode the ferry down. BB -There was a ferry down at St. Perity? DG-Washington on the Brazos - was -that ferry was there until when, until up into the 30's, 40's? or that late? GC -They might have done that during the depression. I think they did. You know there's a lot of roads that had a lot of things. We got a lot of things built, you know. Putting people to work and 14 BT- That's when all those little old schools were built. That was DG- During the Roosevelt era? BT -Yes, that was a government process to give work to people and you could only work a three day work week on those schools. We had two crews, one crew worked two days. You're not interested in schools. Let me tell you where the Aggies used to park. The petroleum building is right around the corner from the present petroleum building. It was a Petroleum/Geology building and right behind it there was about two to three hundred feet of space and then a little miniature oil field that the Petroleum Engineering students worked in, as different kinds of things. I think all the . I worked for a petroleum engineering department many years and worked at A &M when the Texas Petroleum Research Committee was founded and the day student parking was that 2 -300 feet behind the petroleum building and before you got to the little oil field and I know Mr. Vance was head of the department and he was always complaining that they were getting their cars up to close to the Petroleum building, and that space for me to park. We had about maybe 46 or 47 and we maybe had 50 cars. We passed that many parked on the side of Bush on the way here. DG-And so you retired from A &M in '47? Or you worked at the geology department. BT -No, I worked for the Petroleum Engineering department. Well, worked for the Petroleum Engineering department and really did not make a lot of money as I worked for the university. Uh- unless you were a professor, and a professor I was not. They built Stephenson and Mr. Vance came in one day and said, "OK, I've got you a job. You're going over to Stephenson and you're going to be probably a custodian." That's when they first built it. I placed all of the furniture in the Student Center when it was built according to the decorator's plans and sketches and that's what I did. And he called me one day and said, "All right, turn in your resignation and come back. We're going to form this Petroleum Research Committee and you're going to be the executive secretary for us." So I went back to them. I got a real job and made a lot of money. I made almost $200 a month. GC -That was a lot of money. BT- Something was mentioned earlier about bicycles. In the years that I worked at the University I don't remember ever seeing a student riding a bicycle to class. BB -I can' remember bicycles. GC -I don't remember bicycles either. BB -All I remember is the freshmen walking in the streets. They weren't allowed on the sidewalk. 15 BT -And you, and you, you didn't go anywhere in your car. All the classes changed at the hour- 5 minutes before the hour and we'd have to go to the Post Office or go to the library, or BECU to buy something. You didn't go around, even out because you couldn't get out on the street. The cars had to yield the right of way to the walking students and the streets were full of them. DG-Oh I see, OK. GC -It just wasn't that they had to get around on bicycles, you know, it was just more. BT -The Academic Building was the last one, over that way until the Student Center was built and the Administration Building last but that hospital was right behind the Administration Building. DG-So it was all close enough to where the Aggies didn't really need anything other than their two feet. BT -Oh yeah, they didn't need to. I guess you had sixty minute classes and you could get anywhere by walking in ten minutes, and go by the YMCA, and pick you up a Coke for a nickel. GC- Somebody tell me, I've been sitting here, the name of the guy that made the fabulous malts for 100 years in the basement of the YMCA building. We all called him "Uncle...." Oh, he was- I don't think he ever married. He had a niece that came here and lived and she got married and lived with him and I was at a party for her and there was three freshmen there, sitting over on a bench and I didn't know until after my husband and I married that he was one of them. I said something about him, and he asked me if I knew her and I said, "Oh yes. I've known her," and I said, I said, um, I was at her big party that they had when she got married. He said, "I bet you were the one playing on the piano, weren't you ?" and I said, "Yes," He said, "Well, I was one of those fish setting over there." I said, "Well, I wasn't looking at freshmen." I had gotten to the point that if they didn't have on shiny boots, I wasn't looking at them by that time. BT -I know another transportation story, but it's hearsay. Are you interested in something like that? The Buffalo Bill Wild West Show was organized and it traveled all over the United States and it came to Bryan and I don't know when this is supposed to have happened, but the Cadet Colonel, there were a bunch of Aggies that were going to it and then they had to sneak under the edge of the tent and get in. What they got him, I believe it was the Cadet 16 Colonel or the Lieutenant Cadet Colonel, and accused him of doing this and he had not really done it. They threw him out anyway, wouldn't let him stay and a lot of the other Aggies heard about it and picked up on it and broke into the arsenal and got a cannon and put it on the railroad track and sent word to the show that train was not coming through College Station. They packed up and left and they packed up on the train and left and when they came down here - we called it the F &B Station -I don't know where the was, but the cannon was about where University Drive crosses the railroad and the train stopped, and someone started walking up and they fired the cannon and it was considerably over the top of the train and they said they didn't. There was no negotiating. They told them the train was not coming through -and I understand the train had to back up to Valley Junction -I don't know where Valley Junction is -to work out a place to turn around and had to go over to North and and Houston down that way. Now that was told to me many times in kind of different versions by several different people, so I believe that must have really happened. I think maybe -I had an uncle that went here -he studied vet medicine and I think maybe he must have been one, maybe the first person that told it. Supposedly that was going to A &M when it happened. BB -I've heard the story, too. GC- They've had some very- they -you get an Aggie mistreated very much and you might have something on your hands. I can imagine them getting mad. I can imagine it happening way back then. BB -The old ROTC story for the horses and such 'cause I guess for the new basketball coliseum parking lots and soon. I can remember sitting on my grandmothers porch watching the on review days - watching them cannon, down the road and across the railroad tracks. big deal. BT -This little story is sort of related to transportation. Maybe everybody is aware of it, or maybe anybody doesn't know anything about it. A &M had a mare and she was ridden by the Cavalry students, and they bred her on purpose or accidentally she got bred to a Jack and produced a mule, and mules are not fertile and she produced a mule that was fertile and the mule had 2 foals, one was a filly and grew up and looked like a mule and the 2nd one was a colt and looked very much like 17