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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSouth Side Panel Group 11Group 11 Lee B. Groce Moderator: Transcriptionist: Interviewee: South Side Memory Lane June 23, 1995 Ethel Delley Erin Shone Lee B. Groce Group 11 Moderator: Ethel Delley Interviewee: Lee B. Groce Ethel: Good Morning. The City of College Station Oral History Project. My name is Ethel Delley. This is Friday, June 23, 1995. I am interviewing for the first time Mr. Lee Groce. This interview is taking place in room 103 of the Conference Center at 1300 George Bush Drive, College Station, Texas. This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. This is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Mr. Groce, will you tell us a little about who you are, and I will start the interview. Lee: I am Lee Groce of College Station, Texas. I live at 1632 B Park Place in College Station, Texas. Ethel: Good, Good. Mr. Groce, will you tell us if this is your birthplace? Were you born here, and if so, what area were you born in, in College Station? Lee: I was born in College Station on Grace Hill. Ethel: Where is that located today? Lee: That is right over on Old College Main, just a few blocks from the 12th Man Inn. Which is University Drive. Ethel: Now, did you go to school here? Where was the school, and what was the name of the school, and do you remember your first teacher? Lee: The name of the school was A &M Consolidated. And my first teacher was Mrs. Esse King, the mother of Lawrence King who taught in the school system of Lincoln High School in College Station, over on Holleman. Ethel: You're religious, or would you like to go on? Lee: Lincoln High, which was first black, was built in 1941. Ethel: And before Lincoln was built, where did the students go to school? Lee: The students went to school, they had a school right near Washington Chapel Church, now on the Richardson Estate. Ethel: And Washington Chapel is located on Texas Avenue, across from Long John Silver's is that right? Lee: That's right. Ethel: Now, Washington Chapel Baptist Church, was that your first and your home church? Lee: That's the first and home church. Ethel: And do you know abou how old the church is? Lee: Yes, it's a hundred years old. Established in 1894. Ethel: So, this year would be a hundred and one, then. Lee: This year is a hundred and one years. Ethel: Your family played a very important part in the expansion of that church, is that right? Lee: That's right. Ethel: And who were they? Lee: My grandfather, Reverend G.W. Terry, which was the third pastor of the Washington Chapel Missionary Baptist Church. Ethel: Now, has that been the only location of the church, or was it located in another part of College Station? Lee: The church was located right where Shiloh. 2 Ethel: Fort Shiloh. Lee: Fort Shiloh, that's where the church was located at. Ethel: Right in the cemetery area. Lee: Right in the cemetery, right near where Fort Shiloh is now. That's where the church was until they moved it to the site where it is now. They moved that church from there. Ethel: Now, your community life. You say you were born here in College Station. What area, in growing up, did you live in during your young adult time? Had it always been in the area of Park Place? Lee: No, not always. Not always in the area of Park Place. We have to track back to where I started at Grace Hill where we lived, and then we also lived near Grace Hill. We lived Boyd Boyette, Boyd. We lived in Boyd's flat near the West Gate Center, there. We lived on Boyette. And from Boyette, we moved to Delvantes and we stayed in Delvantes until 1943. And that's been our residence since 1943. Ethel: OK, your travels. Did you ever leave College Station? And did you ever - Back during some of the times I can recall that people left this area and went west and some went east and to other parts of the United States for work. Did you ever leave this area for work? I know some of them are gone, they left back then and they're still gone. Your brother is gone. He's in Minnesota. Lee: Yes, Yes he did. Ethel: You have some sisters that are gone. Lee: Yes Ethel: They're on the West Coast, also. Some of them are. Did you ever leave to go work, also, and did you come back to make this your home? Lee: I left the last of January, 1945. And I went to San Francisco. And I left on a Wednesday at 4:30am. I arrived in San Francisco on the second of February at 6:00am. 3 Ethel: Were you traveling by bus? Lee: Train Ethel: Train Lee: Southern Pacific. Ethel: Now, getting to your mature years. Did you go into a military service? Lee: No. Ethel: You didn't go into military service. What type of work did you do in San Francisco? Lee: Oh, I worked in warehouses, that type of work. I worked on the base, Marine base and warehouses, that's the kind of work I did in San Francisco. Ethel: What was your overall attitude toward military duty? Did your brother or any of your other relatives go to service? Lee: No, nope they didn't. Ethel: OK, we will go down to your family development as an adult, about your marriage. You came back to College Station and met your wife. Lee: On July 2, 1946 I came back to College Station. But I met Betty in 1961 at the MSC. Ethel: Now, she was the young lady who had gone to college in Austin, is that right? Lee: Austin, Texas. Ethel: Austin, Texas. And from that marriage you have two boys and one daughter, don't you? Lee: Yes. 4 Ethel: Where are they? Lee: Lee Jr. is in Panama. Ethel: And he is married now? Lee: And she is married now Ethel: Has a son. Lee: Has a son. Ethel: And your daughter? Lee: And Queen Esther Burns, she's at home today, but she lives in Dallas and she is a parole officer in Dallas. She attended school at TJC, Tyler Junior College, and also at University of Texas at Arlington. Ethel: Wonderful, Wonderful. Lee: And Lee Jr., he finished A &M Consolidated, graduated in 1982. And then he went to Henderson County Junior College for one semester, and then he went to Blinn Junior College a semester and a half, and two years at Texas A &M. He finished December 12, 1986, he graduated. Ethel: And Clifton, now, he tells me he's going to be going to Indianapolis, Indiana, to play for the Colts. What is that, next month? Lee: Next month. He'll be playing for the Indianapolis Colts. Ethel: In July, and he's one of the Texas Aggie football players. Lee: Yes. Ethel: What position does he play? 5 Lee: Fullback Ethel: OK, let's get back to your family neighbor hood a little bit. The street you live on is Park Place. Lee: Park Place. Ethel: What was that area called back before the name came? Lee: Park Place, oh yes. Ethel: Did it have a community name? Lee: It had a community na e? Ethel: And what did they call that area of College Station? Lee: It had a community name and a street, it was a dead end street. Which had a fence between the Dobrovolny's and the Kapchinski's addition. And the ladies that worked on the committee for the community named the street Spring Green Community. That was until the city connected Park Place from the West side to the East. Connected it to that street. So Park Place runs all the way from one highway, the old highway, what we call 2818, runs from the old highway to the new highway, highway 6. Ethel: Well, let's see. And you did grow up, most of your religious background was Baptist. Lee: Baptist. Ethel: Washington Chapel. That's where your mother was, and your grandfather. Lee: You said religious, I mean, the word religion, that's right. Washington Chapel, the Baptist church. Reverend W.F. Jackson. He was the pastor in 1938. He baptized me in the tank right across from the church in 1938, he did. Ethel: Now, who was the first minister you can recall your grandfather saying? 6 Lee: Oh, Oh! I've got that right here. The first minister was Reverend L.K. Williams was the first pastor. Ethel: Excuse me, how did the church come about it's name? Lee: The church, the name came about the Washingtons. Ethel: The family. Lee: Yes, the Washingtons. And they were some of the members that was in the church when it was organized. And they named it Washington Chapel, of course I have the history right here of that church. Sister Mary Washington was the second president and then Sister Annie Pierce, Sam Pierce's relative, was Vice... Ethel: And most of those people have gone on. Lee: Yes, all of them have gone on. Ethel: A few of the Washington family still are members of the church today. Lee: Yes. Ethel: Do you know why they call that area Spring Green? Lee: Well, the only thing I kr ow... Ethel: It was pretty and greenery. LAUGHING Lee: I didn't know, they just thought up some name and that's what they came up with. Ethel: And in that particular area that is now Park Place, that was a real full community of homes. 7 Lee: At one time, that's right. Ethel: Do you know about how many families lived in that area? Lee: Pretty close to it. Let's see - now the first family, well, we called it a family in the day, Mrs. Angie Gavin was the first there. And after Mrs. Angie Gavin was Mr. Anderson Harris who lived right across from me. Then, Mrs. Mary Flowers. Mrs. Mary Flowers and Curtis Cheeks and Mrs. Mary Flowers. Ethel: The Days wasn't there the Days? Lee: Oh, wait a minute, yea, but Mrs. Charity Day, was right on the bend. But you didn't want me to call and name all the families. I didn't have to name who was there first or nothin'. Ethel: So that was quite a family. Quite a group of people? Lee: That's right. We'll start with Mrs. Angie Gavin, Mrs. Charity Day, Mrs. Mary Flowers, Mr. Anderson Harris, Ms. Rose Thompson, Miss Susie Thompson. Ethel: Quite a few people. Lee: And Mrs. Pervie Robinson, Mrs. Viola Toliver, and my mother, Beulah Groce, Mr. X.C. Waldon at the end where Long John Silver's, that's where his house is. Miss Eunice Dancine and J.C. Chew. Ethel: Yea, right there where Mazzios is now. Lee: That's right and Mr. - Where Mazzios is now, that's where J.C. lived, J.C. Chew. And the Days used to live right across from it. Ethel: And the spot where they have that barber shop and the SAS shoe factory. That was... Lee: Tommy Jones lived there. Ethel: Right on Texas Avenue. 8 Lee: Right, Tommy Jones lived there. And of course Mr. John Waldon lived right there next to the church. Ethel: Now, with all those people being in the community, where did they do most of their shopping? Lee: They did their shopping at Brook Hotter - that's on Highway 6 going north. Brook Hotter and Louis May's - that's where the circle is now up there on Highway 6. Ethel: On the corner of University and Texas Avenue. Lee: That's right. Ethel: Louis May's Grocery Stare. Lee: And then they went to Bryan and did their shopping for groceries, they did. But shopping, we didn't have any dry good stores, they went to Bryan, to main downtown Bryan for their shopping. Ethel: Now, do you remember anything about the depression. Did that affect... Lee: What did the depression do? Yes it did. Ethel: What effect did it have on your home life? Lee: Oh, yes it did have an effect on it because we lived in a - everybody was poor, they were poor. Ethel: And didn't know it. Lee: Well, yes they know it, they know it. - LAUGHING- The depression came, and when the depression came it affected everybody at the university, it did. At that time, my dad worked at the big Chemistry Department in the main part of campus there, he worked there. And they had to layoff a lot of workers, you know, because times were so tough and everything, and the students had to have a job to have resources to finish school, funds for 9 their school. So they had to work their way out of school, in that school to make it. So they had to layoff some of their help. And then they had to release a lot of people for going on relief. And during the depression time, after that, they had the President of the United States, named President Hoover. And Hoovervilles. Franklin Delano Roosevelt succeeded him in 1934. People had to go to town, Bryan, to get rations, food. We didn't have food stamps, but you had to go every two weeks to the Commentary to get food. And they had food and clothes. The children didn't have sufficient clothes to go to school. So they gave them shoes, everything. They called it Miss Brocks, the good chair. So now, we was over there. Now everybody in College Station didn't - well, just like not everybody gets food stamps today, would not go to Miss Brocks. Well, I remember some kids, children that went to school, they wore clothes according to their dressing. Everybody knew Miss Brock's clothes. Because the manufacturing wouldn't do the manufacturing that would do if you went down to J.C. Penney's and bought some. Of course it didn't look like it, because of the way it was stitched and all of that. But there were some children that I know that didn't go to Miss Brocks, now. Some of them were just not offered. Ethel: Yes, the way it is today. Lee: Like wagoneers today. Now, you take that - Some of them didn't go because they had a small family, too, some of them did. Ethel: Do you know, even during that time, was there any places in Bryan or College Station that we could go to eat? What was the restaurants like? Lee: Oh! At the end of Main, right there at that lumber yard, right there on Main on the right hand side going down... Ethel: In Bryan. Lee: In Bryan they had a place called Papa Jenkins. Ethel: Run by blacks. Lee: By blacks. He had a cafe, restaurant. That's what he had. 1 0 Ethel: Was there many other places? Was there any place, do you recall, in College Station? Lee: I don't know no place in College Station, at that time, in those days. Nope, not in College Station in those days. Now, later on these other things, they come on. Louie's and Charlie had a place when I came back during the war. They had a place, and also Charlie Smith had a theater. Ethel: Yes, a little, small theater down there on Wellborn Road. Lee: Well, let me go back again to Mr. Son Thomas on College Hill. He had a little, he had a cafe. And he just owned and sold little cool plates and lunches. Didn't have no - it wasn't a beer joint, it was just for young peoples entertainment and everything, that's all. And we'd go there and dance and everything. He had that -o that's the only thing he had that I know of. That he had a cafe. But now, you wouldn't want to know about this place, down here, now. The first beer joint, saloon, whatever anyone called it. Ethel: The Tavern. Lee: Yes, The Green Lantern Ethel: On Wellborn Road. Lee: That's where Willie Wilborn and Mrs. Mary Wilborn was the owner. Ethel: Now, did they serve food? Lee: They served food, too. But, you see, the only people that could go in there, because it sold beer, was the adults. And, you see, we weren't adults then, so we couldn't go. But those that were older, like eighteen and all like that, they went. My sister never went, too. McMillian and Redmond L. Ford and all of them. They was of age, you know, they went down to that place. That's where the dancin' place was. Ethel: Well, I surely do appreciate your company... Lee: So they went down there to that place and danced. 11 Ethel: Well, I'll ask one other question and then you may have to go, I don't know. Lee: No, no, I don't have to go. Ethel: How did your family use it's leisure time, you know, the entertainment. I know, for a lot of us we went to church regularly, and was there. Any other places that our families would go and enjoy themselves back during that time? Very few places available. Lee: Available, that's right. Now, they would go to rodeos and ball games, you know, those things. Ethel: The little, small parks. Lee: That's right, they had parks and things to play ball. Ethel: Most of the people we knew were playing. Lee: They played ball, that's right. Around here they played ball. They'd go to that. And I remember that they had a ball team called College Station Ball Team, they had one time. And then one time they called them the Grand Prize Tigers. The Grand Prize Tigers. Grand Prize Beer sponsored them. And people would go to these ball games. And every year at Easter - On Easter Sunday they would have a ball game on Waco's team. Ethel: In Bryan. Lee: In Bryan. They had a club over there called The Cotton Club. Ethel: And that was back in the what? Lee: That was during the war and before the war. Ethel: In the '40's. Lee: Yep. Before the war and during the war. Futty Rob was the man named that owned the place. And they had a beautiful ball park. Right where the Shell Station is on Waco 12 Street. And all of that was just clean over there, then, but after that they built up a community over there. They called it the Cotton Club Papa, I mean this man. So that was - Now, this highway, I mean College Station, I mean talking about the schools we had there. Ms. Esse King, and Ms. Owens was my teacher. Faye Myrtle Adams - she used to make me stay in school and... Ethel: And she worked, I think, I remember her retirement because I had some courses under her in Home Economics. She worked 47 years. Lee: 47 years. Ethel: And she ended up also working active integration within the high school here at Consolidated. Lee: And also, Ms. Tyler was with Ms. Adams in the house at that time. I remember Ms. Tyler taught school when I went back to St. Matthews. The church over there, at St. Matthews, it was an addition of St. Matthews church. Ms. Edna Harris taught school over there. In the church. They didn't have a school over there, but we had a school house and a church house for the school. Ethel: She taught in the church? Lee: Yes, she taught school in the church. And also, Mrs. Owens and Mrs. Edna Harris. Mrs. Cunningham was also my teacher, Ruth. Her name was Ruth Cunningham. So she succeeded Mrs. Esse King. Ethel: Now, were you saying there was a school in the Washington Chapel area and then that was the church, also? Lee: The Church School. Ethel: So that was a building for the school. Lee: That was a building for the school. Ethel: OK. That was during 19... Lee: Oh! My goodness, it was uh... Let me say this - we used to walk from Grace Hill up on that flat. From there to the school building where the pizza is now, back there. And all that 13 back there was a playground. They had a school - 11 classes and detention. And Mrs. Cunningham succeeded Ms. Esse. And they had some kind of a misunderstanding or something, so what they did, the superintendent of the whole school, he put Mrs. Esse, not Mrs. Esse, but after Mrs. Esse left, they put Mrs. Cunningham - Mrs. Cunningham lived in Bryan and so they'd put her over at St. Matthews and Mrs. Edna Harris took Washington Chapel and her place. So that was Mrs. Owens and Mrs. Edna Harris were teaching. Ethel: Now, who was the Superintendent during that time, do you recall? Lee: The Superintendent, at that time, Mr. Edge was the Superintendent. I'm sure, when we took Park and went around that curve, right around that curve was his house, Mr. Edge lived there. Ethel: I remember a name, Bonnie, was the county Superintendent. Bonning? Lee: Bonning was the Superintendent, too, at one time. Ethel: But he came after Mr. Edge. Lee: Yes, he came after Mr. Edge. Mrs. Ruth Cunningham taught school until - And then when they built the high school, Ova was there - Ms. Cunningham and Ova. Ethel: Lincoln Ova on Eleanor Street. Lee: Yea, but now, let me put this this way: Lincoln High was not born. Ethel: Was not built. Lee: Wasn't born until 1946. Now, the structure, the building was there. Ethel: But the name was not there. Lee: But the name was not given until 1946. And they wanted a name. But until then it was only A &M Consolidated. Everything was A &M Consolidated - didn't have a name. Ethel: In 1946. 14 Lee: So they decided they wanted a name and colors. So they chose purple and gold and named it Lincoln High. But until then, it was A &M Consolidated. But Ms. Cunningham always had some sweaters and jackets and we'd go and get them and they were painted A &M Consolidated. Jean, he left in '45. Ethel: Oh, he did. Lee: He left with Ivey, not Ivey but Elbert. Ethel: Elbert. Lee: Elbert went to California. That's where he died, there. Big house on Sacramento and Lion Street. Ethel: In San Francisco. Lee: In San Francisco. And those big old houses, out there, several families can stay in one great big house. Because he had several families that lived. And besides, she had her part to stay in, so she'd rent 'em and they'd all stay in one big house. That's where my sister was staying for a while, there, in San Francisco. I got there about 6:00am on a Saturday morning. Left on a Tuesday in 1945. And I got there so early and she called wondering what's going on, you know, and everything looked like behind just like it did... 15 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. f//, De // Interviewer (Please Prt) Signature o 7 1 IN Interviewer, Place of Interview List of photos. documents. mans. etc. Inte viewee (P ase print) �L. , « ature Interviewee 1 / v Name %'mot, P /l�✓r,F' f' Address Telephone • Date of Birth(/L '21Y Place of Birth 1,,,( INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. In progress x'. 77/ Initial The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. I have read the above and v luntarily offer my portion of the interviews with / fript... (Name of Interviewee) In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Confer ceCenJer Advisory Co ittee. Interviewer (signature) /7/i Interviewer (Please Print) Date This is City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project I'm interviewing for the L/ time •) Today is �.r�P �' , (month) (day) (year) (Mr., Airs This interview is taking place in Room /4 of The at 1300 George Bush Dr. College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is identifiable on the tape recorder. Remarks: Memory Lane: c gq Name 1 -e Interviewer Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office L2 I Z �G s # of tapes marked I Original Photographs Yes No Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape dispqos l form: Given to interviewee on (l1/L3 / 6 Received Yes No Date Signed L+2 lG 3 / q5 R "ctions If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: g 112-0116 First typing completed by OAP Pages Date (name) First audit check by Pages Date name) Sent to interviewee on 2 I J3 lg Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet # of photos Date Recd Interview No. Interview date lntervi le gth (name) Pages Date Date ta /Z 161 Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2; Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date