HomeMy WebLinkAboutNorthgate Panel 2Interviewer: Debbie Jaseh
Interviewees: Johnnie Holik
Lil Sorrels
Ann Hornak
Debbie: What kind of business was your family involved in at
the North Gate Area? Now for Mr. Holik I think that kind of
a strange question because anyone who was an Aggie knows
about Holik's foods but if you'd like to tell us a little
bit about it, when the shop started and things like that.
Holik: Well, the place of business is remembered by most of
the Aggies as you say or other people who knew us it was
located on the campus and the last place it was located on
campus was in the building that is upper story of the old
exchange store building right behind Eppright Hall.
Debbie: Right.
Holik: And huh before that, there was a wood building that
my dad built before that exchange building was there. There
was a wooden building that he was allowed to put up on his
own on government property and huh it, well that was the
original shop and that was probably in about 1895 or
somewhere along there and huh it went through the war that
way and after World War I was over. They moved another big
wood building that had been used as kind of of a base change
building on to that site and then the original building was
demolished. Several businesses occupied that old wood
building, there was Charlie's Mitchell Tailor Shop, shoe
repair shop huh something else but I can't remember just
what was there. In about 1931 I believe it was just about
all the business moved off of campus except the cleaning and
pressing shop that was operated by the ex student
association so it was allowed to stay there. But when we
moved, dad had a building built at North Gate. We occupied
that building that was 1930 or 31, well it was about the
time that we decided we were going to start making some
books.
Debbie: That was about 1931 that you moved off is that about
the time that ya'll's business started Ms. Sorrel's
Sorrels: No ours started much earlier than that my parents
immigrated from Czechoslovakia.
Debbie: O.K., where in Czechoslovakia?
Ann: Moravia is the center part of Czechoslovakia and huh my
uncle was here and he was in the tailoring business and my
father went into partnership with him and we live in the
back of the shop in a little house where we worked was on
the corner of Tauber Drive and University and then we had
our business there for quite a while and then when the shop
was built in what
Lil: July 2, 1932
Debbie: And your businesses were next door to each other
then
Ann: And it became the Uniform Tailor Shop. I don't know
what it was called when we were in the little house, but the
Uniform Tailor Shop is what it was called.
Debbie: In the 70's, I was into history a long time ago and
in the 70's I remember reading where the different
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businesses were and when exploring the North Gate area,
then, because I lived in the North Gate area, but I remember
reading about the Uniform Tailor Shop. So the business,
would you say the majority of the businesses that came from
North Gate came from off campus of from on campus? They
were originally on campus and then they moved off. Is that
kind of what happened?
Ann: I think that we were considered a part of on campus at
that time but I don't know about the rest of them.
Holick: North Gate at the time
moved off campus, moved off the campus, it was a
photographic studio, Sosolik Studio, and our...And I think
the barbershops I'm not sure
Debbie: What was the first business that you remember having
or knowing about at North Gate?
Ann: Uniform Tailor.
Debbie: Your uniform tailor shop
Ann: Yes.
Lil: And the pharmacy, as kids, that was our favorite place
to go.
Debbie: Which pharmacy?
Lil: I guess it was Aggieland Pharmacy, the one on the
corner. I can't remember the name of it, but I remember as
kids, our biggest treat was to visit daddy at the shop and
be given a nickel and go to the pharmacy and have a
Ann: Oh no, for me it was a lemon phosphate.
Lil: Will you come much later
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Ann: A double dip cone for a nickel.
Debbie: And huh the street that your business is on what was
the name of your street huh the first one
Ann: It was Tauber Drive or Tauber Lane, it's called now.
It was Tauber Road.
Debbie: Do you remember why it was named Tauber?
Ann: Yes, the Tauber's had a farm in back.
Debbie: Ok, ok. And it was toward Bryan, would be where the
Tauber Farm was.
Ann: It was there for a long time.
Debbie: And huh when you looked down the street, was the
farm still operating? Could you see farmers?
Ann: Oh, yes. We used to go there and see the pigs in the
pig pen and chickens and the ducks. It was an operating
farm.
Debbie: And huh who were your business neighbors on either
side once you moved to the place where your business was?
Lil: The Holicks and then huh the Sosoliks and the Zubiks
were across the street, but the neighbors to the other side,
I guess was the pharmacy building.
Debbie: Do you remember Mr. Holick?
Holick: Well there was huh, I don't know about what year,
but there was another building put up around the corner
there that turn into a pharmacy and was operated as a
pharmacy by different people for quite some time. It's now
campus photo studio. Campus Photo. I believe it was on the
corner of University and what is now Main Street and huh
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that's huh and across the street there were a good many
businesses that were in there. Later the cleaning and
pressing shop was in there.
Lil: Wasn't there a jeweler there - Preston Dobine
Jewelers?
Holick: Dobine Jewelers had a small place in there.
Lil: Mackey's Cafe, Johnny, Mackey's Cafe, that cafeteria
next to the shop, Mackey's.
Johnnie: Yes, that came quite a bit later.
Dorothy: Yeah, about 45, no, 40 something.
Debbie: When did Lauderstein Cleaners remember, was that
much later?
Holick: They built a building adjoining ours.
Debbie: When was that, do you remember?
Holick: Do you remember Lauderstein building being there?
Lil: It was Maggie's Cafe and then Lauderstein.
Holick: It was Maggie's Cafe, the Lauderstein, that's
right. And Lauderstein was there in 1940. Yea, it was
somewhere around huh probably around 1935 -36, very likely, I
don't know, that's just a pretty good guess. Somewhere in
the right ball park.
Debbie: How many people worked at the businesses in that
area? Do you remember, were there a total?
Ann: Well ours varied with the seasons because huh we had
usually, they were Hispanic tailors, daddy imported from San
Antonio usually and during the busy season there were 4,
more than that really.
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Holick: None of them had more than 2 or 3 employees,
somewhere along that line.
Debbie: And I imagine that varied with the season as well
as it does now. There's more people needed during the
school year then in summer when it slows down. And huh what
kind of things did ya'll do for fun as kids growing up in
that area?
Ann: Well, skates were ours. You know I went to A &M
Consolidated that was in the old stucko building. Our
favorite thing was to be able to visit the shop, put on
skates, particularly skating at the Y, but huh just usual
things that kids do. We didn't have too many toys, we
weren't very well to do at that time to say the least, but
we spent a lot of time, practicing violin where I took
lessons from Johnny's father. He was the first band leader
and he used to spend Sundays with us, always have Sunday
dinner and then my brother, my sister and I all took lessons
from Mr. Holick.
Lil: In fact, I still have some of the music that he's
written. They were violin exercises.
Debbie: And who wrote the music?
Lil: Mr. Holick's father.
Debbie: Tell us about your father. This is going to be a
very special year since it's the 100 year anniversary of the
Aggie Band.
Holick: Well, a lot of it is pretty well known by a lot of
people. He had some publicity where he happens to be and
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the kind of business and things like that. But he came over
from Czechoslovakia and huh when he was 17 years old he and
one brother relocated on a farm in Kansas for a couple of
years. The were hot... they had to stay out. They on this
the farm was so large they even had a chick wagon. They'd
stay our for 2 or 3 days at a time. They just got tired of
that they hopped a freight train. Advertised somewhere
other than near Orange, Texas and they thought they were
catching the right freight train, something pretty close to
it anyway. They got side tracked in Bryan by accident.
That's the reason I'm here right now. And it so happens
that he found an uncle on his paternal side that had a place
of business here and so he decided and he found that they
had a boot shop here... English name but he was an
Englishman and he had a boot shop around the corner huh and
old railroad station there and huh so dad got a job in the
boot shop and his brother went on somewhere that's the
reason he had stayed, just the chance that car got switched
off. That changed the life of 10,000 people right there.
Debbie: Yes, it did. Yes, it did. It's amazing how some
little things like that can.
Holick: Yea, anyway, he got in this boot shop as a boot
maker in there. Well, uh, he got talked into coming out to
put in a shoe repair service at huh at huh A &M College, who
is the man that has a great big statue in front of the main
building.
Debbie: Sul Ross?
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Holick: Yes, I can't think of names like that. Sul Ross was
the one that talked him into coming out to College Station
and he put in this shoe shop in 1891, that's our
establishment. While he was there he was a musician, played
the clarinet. He probably played the clarinet while he
didn't have something else to do sometimes. That lead to
attracting musicians that were there and he got to be the
first band master and the story goes on from there about him
being a band master. I could take a lot more time...,
anyway, he was band master on and off while they hired a
regular full time band master from time to time. There was
something happening. He'd get drunk and they would fire
him, kick him out and huh he'd get the job right back. He
got the job back 3 or 4 different time and they'd pay him a
little extra for blowing several bugle calls and so that's
the reason he got established in College Station, Texas and
that lead to later establishing that little wood building
shoe shop right behind Jack Rawl Hall.
Debbie: There really was a closeness almost a single
community between people who were on campus and the business
people as almost as if you were one and you weren't crossing
the line. So many times these days we see that imaginary
line on university drive where your either on campus or your
off campus, but that didn't exist back then did it?
Johnnie: Not really, I think there was a lot of course.
Everything was a lot smaller in those days and there were
fewer students and fewer faculty and everything else and
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everybody got to know everybody real well and it got to be
more like a unit on the campus of Texas A &M.
Lil: I think that's the big difference: the size of the
campus, the size of the community - it was just totally
different back then.
Debbie: Well I'm not sure if there's anything you left out
or not. We're just kind of like I said, I'm not really
gonna follow these questions huh.
Lil: What was the name of University Drive before it was
University?
Johnnie: University Drive. I thought he did a pretty
remarkable job of some of the things that he did huh. When
he came over here he had some schooling... in the Czech
language. He could really read and write the Czech language
very well of course, but then he didn't know how to speak
English, read and write anything in English. He had to
learn all that all by himself. And anyway he... and he not
only got to speak English very well but he got to be where
he learned to read and write it too, all by himself.
Debbie: I think there were a lot of the people that came
over did that. I notice your parents came from
Czechoslovakia as well. Was there a large Czech community
in the North Gate or...
Ann: Oh, in the North Gate. I don't know that there was
so, but in Bryan there was.
Debbie: In Bryan there was, and why did your parents come
to Bryan. Did they pick it or did they wind up like Mr.
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Ann: Well they first came to New York. My mother had a
sister and they didn't care for New York so...
Then mother also had another sister here in Bryan and so my
father was trained in Vienna as a tailor and huh so and my
uncle was a tailor and huh it was a natural thing for them
to come here because both of them, brother -in -laws, were in
the same trade and huh that seem to be was they had a
business to come to, you know at that time, when you
immigrated you had to come somebody to vouch for you
financially and you had to be able to do some kind of
constructive work and huh since my father was highly trained
in the tailoring trade, this was a major place for him to
come and they were specialists in the uniform making. My
father was known all over the world for his uniforms. You
know even during World War II, he got requests for uniforms
all over the world and my brother told me something that I
didn't realize that huh during the second World War,
naturally everybody was trying to make a fast buck and so
they increased the prices of their uniforms tremendously and
of course they made officers uniforms. And I think at that
time they were charging about $400.00 and my father remained
at the same price that he had prior to the war and he made
his uniforms for $81.00, the total package, until all of his
materials ran out and he couldn't, you know, buy the
material again for the same price, but he was a very
patriotic man, very patriotic.
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Debbie: The huh, you spoke earlier of a cafeteria named
Mackey where you used to eat lunch at. Were there any other
places that you used to go out and do things like that and
Mackey's on the corner or
Lil: No, next to us
Debbie: It was next to you. It was on the north side.
Lil: My little girl used to roller skate up and down there
and she used to go in there and get water. She used to go
in there and ask for Yo -Yo and he didn't know what she
wanted so he would come over and ask me. She just wants a
glass of water, but don't let her bother you.
Debbie: And so ya'll keep talking about rolling skating.
There were sidewalks and everything right from the very
beginning then
Ann: Yea, on the campus.
Debbie: Ok, ok, and this was just kind of an extension.
Now one thing I heard of was when the post office was built
there. It was a CCC protest or a WPA project.
Ann: WPA.
Debbie: And some one has told me that there was a mural on
the wall of the post office. Do you remember that or do you
remember anything about a great picture on the side or the
inside of the post office? 963 was the phone. Oh, I've
noticed that in reading in some of the Battalions, there
were phone numbers that were 2 digit and 3 digit phone
numbers. So that was very common. They just added a new
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number when someone got a new line, is that correct? Do you
remember what your phone number was?
Ann: I don't.
Debbie: I remember seeing someone's phone number and it was
like 17 and that was it.
Lil: Probably the very beginning of the phone.
Debbie: And I want to say that was maybe Waldrip or
Lipscomb Pharmacy. I believe it was. It just said to dial
17 and
Lil: And I didn't dial.
Debbie: You just asked it. Oh. Tell us about the phone
lines then.
Lil: It was just huh. You know we had the stand up phones,
yea.
Debbie: You had a stand up phone?
Lil: Just got the operator and ask for your number, very
simple, very nice. You were always talking to a human, not
a machine.
Debbie: And do you remember the trolley? Do ya'll remember
the trolley that goes into town?
Lil: He does.
Johnnie: Oh my gosh yes. I should say so.
Debbie: Tell us about the trolley.
Johnnie: Well the first one, the motor cars were gasoline
driven and they were sort of open carts with curtains on the
side, shielding from the weather sometimes. They had an
engine like an automobile only in the front and when they
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got to the end of the track, they had to have a turn table
so that they could go out and turn the thing around and face
it the other way. Tracks had to be made so that they could
turn in Bryan and College Station. Well motor cars, of
course, they burned gasoline and huh we liked the smell of
gasoline somehow. Our home was located, oh I guess, three
or four hundred yards from the track and huh very frequently
when those cars came by we kids would run out there and try
to get so we could smell the gasoline.
Lil: Give him a high.
Debbie: And where did the tracks run?
Johnnie: To Bryan and College Station just passed the North
Gate area in College Station where the terminal, there you
might say, what you consider across the street from Sbisa
Hall.
Debbie: Ok.
Johnnie: And in Bryan, they terminated near the old fire
station, close to the county courthouse.
Lil: And the tracks ran. We moved from College Station
midway, I guess you'd call it.
Johnnie: The had electric cars later.
Lil: Yea, and the tracks ran between his house and my
house. And I remember because we had to walk from my house
to his house to take violin lessons.
Debbie: And I understand there was also in the 40's, I
believe, a bus station that was in North Gate area for the
Trailways and Greyhound bus.
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Ann: I think it was. It seems like it was just there on
what is now University by the curve. You know you just went
to that spot and that's where it is suppose to be.
Debbie: Oh, because I remember reading originally it just
stopped on campus, I do believe, and then it moved to the
North Gate area. Tell us about the theater. I bet that was
exciting for everyone when the theater opened, or do you
remember much about that?
Lil: We never been when it opened.
Ann: Well, tell you what I remember, speaking of theater,
is when King Kong came to what was that? Was it the student
union and they showed that movie there? It was huh, huh.
It wasn't the student union, what did they call it then? I
remember it was a white stucho type building kind of an
assembly hall. I think it was called Assembly Hall. I
think that's what they called, no not Guyden Hall, and I
remember our folks taking us. It was the original King Kong
and that was the most terrifying movie I'd ever seen in my
life. I was scared to even walk out of the building. But I
don't remember going to the campus theater.
Lil: Well when I was in grade school, I remember if you had
a straight A card, whatever you'd get free passes to the
movies and if you were an outstanding student, you would get
free passes.
Ann: And where was this?
Lil: Well this was at the campus, but I don't remember it
being built.
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Debbie: Were there grocery stores in the North Gate area?
What do you remember about the grocery stores? Where were
they at? Did you go into Bryan to do your shopping?
Lil: Yes.
Debbie: You went to Bryan a lot to do your shopping.
Ann: Yea, Luke Patranella. His brother had a grocery
store.
Lil: No, it was in the North Gate in Bryan. It was kind of
around the corner. Then they moved to the East Gate. He
did a lot for the community. I think he was the one who had
the Easter egg hunts for all the school kids. I believe so.
Johnnie: The old... later that huh on Ursuline Avenue
passed Allen Academy and to... they ran cars, oh I guess, 7
o'clock. But those electrical cars were quite something.
They were much larger and had motors on front and back so
that they didn't have to turn them around everytime they got
to end of tracks to go the other way.
Debbie: How long did the trolley run? Do you remember when
it stopped? Or did it run for a long number of years?
Johnnie: I think during World huh huh it wasn't running. I
think they discontinued along about 1932 -33 along about
there. I'm not sure. And huh it had operated to it, seem
to me, that it had operated for about 10 -15 years and then
they started operating it again. And they operated for a
year or so. I remember it was quite a useful piece of
machinery, I tell you that. There were not too many cars
that were operating. There were a lot, of course, but not
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so many people had cars. There was a lot of walking done
for getting from one place to another and getting there the
best way you could.
Debbie: You were telling me that you used to walk to Bryan
with your daughter.
Johnnie: She didn't have to do that, she just did it
because.
Dorothy: I didn't have to...
Debbie: You did it for the exercise.
Dorothy: Get my child out for a while. There wasn't any
other form of entertainment. Go down to Kennedy Pharmacy
and have a lime aide.
Debbie: And huh what were the roads between Bryan and
College Station, which were the first ones that were the
first roads from North Gate area because North Gate was what
was to become College Station at that time.
Ann /Lil: In front of house there was a big ditch that
always caught rain and then you had your tar asphalt cause
everyone had to build their own bridge across the ditch, Dad
had to build it.
Debbie: And where was this ditch at?
Ann: It is now what is 3500 South College.
Debbie: Ok, ok.
Ann: See that is what we moved to 3500 South College and at
that time the road was paved and dad built the house the
Ivy's lived across the street. It seemed like there was one
other.
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Lil: Well it come a small community very few houses rural
and you had to bring in your own electric lines when that
became available, build your own bridges, you had to build
your own side roads when it was necessary to get to your
house.
Ann: We had a windmill. We didn't have city water. That
water was cold and wonderful.
Debbie: And what type of, where was the house at that you
lived?
Dorothy: We built a house on North Avenue. Holick gave us
the land, he gave all of his children lots.
Debbie: And did you have to build your own roads or did you
have to...
Dorothy: They built the road - gravel road - I like it
great because, my heavens, you'd go out in the back yard
naked, to hang up your clothes. You could hear cars coming
from far away. I liked it down there.
Debbie: Did you have your own well?
Dorothy: No, we had city water.
Debbie: Oh you had city water so there was city water to
North Avenue. Ok, huh, how about the North Gate? What did
you do for entertainment when huh you were at the shop?
Dorothy: Played poker.
Debbie: That sounds like a lot of fun.
Dorothy: On Sunday, a bunch of us would get together, they
didn't have ice boxes like they have now. We used to get an
old wash tub, get some ice out of college, chopped it up in
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some beer and just driving, and stopped wherever we wanted
to stop, like an old vacant house, and go through it. We
thought that was fun.
Debbie: There's a lot of people that think that's fun now.
The huh, huh, where did you huh you talked of your daddy
having the material for the uniforms. Where did he get the
materials from?
Ann: From New York
Debbie: They were from New York? And what about your shoe
repair material where did he get those from?
Johnnie: They came from what we call ...
I mean there was a ...
much larger supply places and they were located in Dallas,
Houston, Austin, and huh the materials that we were able,
the materials that we used came from manufacturers all over
the nation, ... different things like rubber heels and soles
and thread all various things.
Debbie: Ok. They came to you then to sell.
Johnnie: They came by train and they were, usually, they
were decked out as real gentlemen.
Debbie: The huh one thing I know now days when we go in to
purchase things and so often when we pull out that plastic
credit card and I know $85.00 having been an army officer is
very inexpensive for a uniform, but the $400.00 I did not
bat an eye at because I remember very easily spending at
least $400.00 right away. So I know people couldn't afford
a lot of time to shell out $400 right away. How did you run
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your credit system or did people pay cash? Did they save
up?
Lil: Well, I still, my family had one of the roll top desks
they traded for a uniform.
Debbie: They traded a roll top desk for a uniform and how
about you, did you run a credit system or did you?
Johnnie: ...but nearly everybody... A lot of people would
ask for credit and a lot of them didn't pay their bills. It
was very common to extend credit to just about anybody
without any particular reference.
Ann: In the depression era, you know people just didn't
have that much money. Prices still just flabbergast me
because I'm from a depression era and I'm just used to
paying a nickel for a coke instead of a dollar. I have that
kind of remembrance of that kind of upbringing, so to speak.
So people were more generous in trusting getting credit and
that kind of thing.
Lil: Kind of being sympathetic to that persons life or
problem.
Ann: Right.
Debbie: So your biggest seller in your father's shop was
selling military uniforms?
Ann: Yea, that was it entirely. I think it's interesting
too that dad was quite instrumental in huh the style and
color of the uniforms the Aggies wore. He and the
Commandant would get together and decide what kind of
uniform the officers would wear and all the accessories and
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so forth, so that there was a little bit of style in there
and, well as, yes, just strictly regulation. It wasn't just
the kind of thing to do it by the law.
Debbie: Did he make anything besides the uniform?
Ann: No, it was the Second World War. I think he
contracted with Bryan Field and made some of the airman's
uniforms, but they didn't go beyond the uniforms and caps.
Yea, they accessorized the whole thing. They didn't do the
boots. They went to Holick's for the boots.
Debbie: And what was your biggest seller besides the Aggie
boots?
Johnnie: Well, he ran a extensive shoe repair service and
that was about it. And we made a lot ... and we did some
orthopedic work. People with all kinds of orthopedic
problems. One of our note worthy customers was Arlon
Trague.
Ann: I think that's interesting you say orthopedic. Huh,
dad did sort of the same thing with uniforms. If one
shoulder was lower, he built it up so that all the men had
perfect posture. And I think they were very skilled in that
lower hips and higher hips and shoulders and whatever.
Debbie: And that's something that we don't think about
these days. Your used to going in and buying your shoes off
the rack and people don't get their shoes repaired as often.
To make them last or you buy a uniform off the rack. I
think the very few that would get custom tailoring now on a
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made to fit item would be for a wedding gown or the
military.
Lil: During the fall when the Aggies came in for that
semester, mother was working the shop too, and they had the
patches. She would do the cross - stitching on the patches
and believe it or not, the boys were very conscious of
whether that cross - stitch was done well or whether it was
not done well.
Ann: Our whole family was employed in the tailor business.
We as kids earned nickels and dimes by pulling basting
stitches. Boy, when you had a quarter, wow.
Debbie: Yes, tell us more about what you did in the shop as
children.
Ann: Well that was pretty much what we did at that age was
pulling the stitches ... that would be brought home. They
didn't have children in the shop because you know boys just
didn't like having kids around when they were being fitted.
but huh, dad would bring piles of uniforms home and we'd
pull stitches so mamma would do the cross - stitch. It was
quite a family thing. The fall rush was always
overwhelming. It was going on into the night to get all of
these things out.
Lil: There's something ya'll might be interested in. I
have a contract for the shop and it goes on and on for the
sum of $3,124. When they built the shop, 3 yards of
concrete was $27.00, digging ditches and laying sewer tile
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$7.30. a really big show window for $6.30. So you can kind
of see the difference in price today.
Lil: And that was Murphy & Murphy Contractors.
Debbie: That would be great. We would love to be able to
get some copies of that.
Lil: This is, I think that's when they leased the shop,
see, because this is August 2, 1927, so they leased the shop
before R.C. Smith and that was $350.00 a year.
Debbie: Now did you build the building that your shop was
in or did you buy it?
Johnnie: My father.
Debbie: Your father built the building and do you remember
when the building was built?
Johnnie: 1932, wasn't it? Is that when you remember when
our building was put up ?'
Ann: Yea. The contract for ours was in 1933.
Johnnie: I'm glad to have that information because I kind
of remember it wrong in 1931.
Ann: The way it is now.
Debbie: Could you turn it to where we could get a picture?
Ann: Eventually if ya'll wanted copies.
Debbie: The huh, the building of the shop now, from what I
have read, the first City Hall, which was not City Hall city
offices, were almost directly across the streets from your
shops in the upstairs. Can you tell us about that? That
must have been exciting when they started forming a city
and...
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Ann: I just remember it was there, but otherwise, I don't
recall.
Debbie: Do you remember about how the...
Johnnie: Well huh, not much about that I guess. I didn't
pay as much attention to it.
Debbie: You were busy earning a living right?
Johnnie: Yea, that was the main deal, we kept pretty busy.
Anyway the Sosolik building. Sosolik had the photographic
studio and above that, I believe, is where the city offices
were.
Lil: I think your right, yea,yea.
Ann: One of the buildings that was across University, it
would be right across from the present post office, the
Aggieland Inn.
Lil: It was on campus.
Debbie: And that's kind of where I imagine that little
parking lot is now and across from Sbisa and where some of
the North Gate dorm area?
Ann: Well huh, you could see it from our shop.
Debbie: You could see it from your shop ok?
Lil: That was where one of the first dorms was built.
Ann: Yea, and that was the entertainment place you would
have your meetings. As I remembered, it was not that large,
but that's all we needed at the time.
Debbie: And huh, when. So most of your entertainment and a
lot of your grocery shopping you went to Bryan for or did
you stay in College Station?
23
Ann: The grocery shopping, the movies, and riding around,
going to Main Street on Saturday nights and parking and
watching the people go by that was entertainment.
Debbie: That was entertainment? Now do you remember the
old bicycle way? Why, I believe there was a bicycle way.
Why, at one time...
Lil: You mean from where?
Debbie: From College Station to Bryan. Is that the way you
rode your bike? What were the roads that went from College
Station to Bryan? Was it College Main? What we call
College Main, the old Main Street. Did that go all the way
to Bryan and were there any other streets?
Lil: You know it's the same thing, sort of a side street.
Debbie: Were there any other street that went into Bryan
from the college area or was that the main street?
Ann: That was the main street and it was gravel.
Johnnie: That was a road extended from what is now Wellborn
road and huh continued along the railroad tracks ... Old
College Road. Right along railroad tracks until it reached,
well it went on to Wellborn it cup off in Wellborn Texas,
but it cut off into campus at huh a place just across from
railroad station where that tower is and it enter campus
there. Incidentally it may be of some interest to you ...
became Cavett Street
Debbie: Oh great. Yea, huh, now what was the most difficult
thing that you remember: perhaps your parents, or you
remembering about your business, perhaps getting it started,
24
and I am sure it was hard during The Depression to keep
things going? How did that effect the college or was there
a large decrease in the number of young men at that time or
was it hard on the businesses or was it booming? It seems
like the businesses here in North Gate started in the time
when The Depression was at it's peak and for some reason
College Station was growing.
Ann: I remember my father, huh, well it must have been
because otherwise they would not have been able to build the
shop. Oh, so they were doing very well, of course, my
father thought Franklin D. Roosevelt was the most wonderful
man that ever lived because he felt that he got them out of
The Depression and, huh, were able to build and to prosper
more than they had prior.
Lil: I remember when Roosevelt came here, that he drove
around in the football stadium. And I still have this
mental image of him then just as when he was then.
Debbie: Do you remember when that was?
Lil: I bet I was about 7 years old and that was about
thirty years ago.
Debbie: Did he come on the campaign train? Did he come on
the train?
Ann: I don't remember that. I just remember he was in
this convertible with a hat on and waving to the crowd,
making loops around the stadium.
Debbie: Do you remember when Roosevelt came to visit?
Ann: Do you Johnnie?
25
Johnnie: I remember when Eisenhower was here I rubbed
shoulders with him in the crowd here in the football
stadium.
Debbie: Did ya'll go to the football games when you were
young or did you
Ann: Knot hole gang got in for a quarter.
Debbie: Got in for a quarter? And where did you sit as a
knot hole gang? In the horse shoe? That must be quite a
difference because now it's $25.00.
Ann: Well, you know in fact, I think that our tickets,
kid's tickets, were 10 or 15 cents. I don't believe that we
would have gone for 25 cents.
Lil: And I think our tickets came from the school.
Debbie: From Consolidated. When you went to school if you
wanted to. When we see now, when there is a football game,
there's this great influx of people into the town. Were
there many visitors that came in for football games or for
different things into College Station?
Lil: I remember we'd always have the home guest. I can't
remember their names, but I think he was a chef. And they
always brought this wonderful food. Big tins, I can't
remember their names.
Debbie: Where did they come from?
Lil: I can't remember if it was San Antonio or Austin. San
Antonio, I believe. They were friends of our parents and
they'd always come in for football games.
26
Ann: Oh, and that was also the time, if it was an out of
town game, Aggies would line up here on Texas in front of
the administration building and there would be a line of
Aggies from the Highway all the way back snaking around to
the, what is the big white building called now?
Debbie - the Administration Building
Lil - ok and they'd very politely take turns and people
going would always pick up Aggies they'd take as many as
they could it was consider a real
Debbie - Is that for the out of town games.
Ann: Yea, they would hitch hike and then of course you'd
pick them up on the road between Bryan and College Station,
I remember when I was after I got my drivers license I would
pick up Aggies, about 8 or 12, now can you imagine?
Lil - and we had a doctor in Houston and I don't think we
ever made a trip to Houston that we didn't pick up Aggies it
was an automatic thing there were Aggies on the road and
they were always there
Ann - They were always polite and so nice. You'd be so
happy to have them
Debbie - So did a lot of the social life actually evolved
around a lot of the things that went on at the college for
example like the football games and things like that.
Ann - I think so, pretty music oriented
Debbie - What type of music events were there?
Lil - We'd have some of the big band dance.
Ann - But that was later, that was in the forties.
27
Lil - Yea, you didn't have a corp dance you didn't have a
company dance, you didn't have any dance without one of the
big bands.
Ann - Usually your Saturday nights you'd go to the drug
store and have something to drink going to the movies and
then go back to the drug store and have something to drink,
then you had to go home.
Ann - Curfew, my parents were very strict.
Debbie - And what types of things do you remember from the
40's during the war years.
Johnnie - Well during the war years there was lots of
rationing going on. You couldn't make Aggie boots, so the
aggie's started getting boots from their predecessors. They
started selling their boots, they had to buy them from the
guy that had graduate but we did have, we made all those
boots in that movie "We've never been licked"
Debbie - "We've never been licked'
Johnnie - We made all the boots for the guys in the movies
Debbie - I imagine that was a very exciting time when "We've
Never Been Licked" when a movie company that came to town
can you tell us or there anything that you remember about
when the movie was made?
Dorothy - My little 2 year old got lost. She got way up
high on that thing where they took the picture from.
Debbie - Where they took the picture from. Did everyone
come out and watch the making of the movie or did they kind
of make you stay away.
28
Dorothy - No kind of stay away, well they were right where
the post office is, you could go watch but none of the
rest.
Ann - When was that ?
Debbie - It was I believe in the 1940's
Dorothy - 40 - 40 or 41
Ann - Cause I don't, well I guess I was in college, I went
to Texas University.
Debbie - Oh my goodness, how did you manage to do that?
Ann -Will they didn't accept women at A &M. It was either
Denton or Austin. So I picked Austin during the summer
yea you did some but you couldn't
Johnnie - celebrities pretty well busy with everything,
we had just about all we could handle with local business
around here, making boots, Aggies and the surrounding
country side, Houston, Dallas & Fort Worth, customers from
all those places, but like I mentioned a little earlier, we
did some orthopedic work for Congressman Olin Teague, and we
now have a thing we have in the shop, one of them is
orthopedic shoes and case and so we just did all over the
United State as far as that was concern we did get a good
many English Riding boots from people located up East.
They'd heard of us, made a trip down here to get measured
and everything like that but none of them celebrities.
Debbie - Do you remember your father ever making uniforms
for someone
29
Lil - She remembers one, I remember one, his name is George
Fearman I don't know if your familiar with him. He was a
columnist for the Houston Post and a writer I think he's
published several books, I remember him and you remember
Ann - John Kimbrough - a star
Lil - I know during the war they invited for other uniform
there were some supposedly well known people, I can't
remember them. They were outstanding people, the men, but I
can't remember who they were.
Debbie - So there was pretty much a thriving little
community in North gate then, in itself and it really
started in the late 20's early 30's I take it
Johnnie - First I remember a place of business was a store
we called Boyett Store. We call Boyett they called
themselves B O Y E T T and it was a well known family in
this area and there was a store there in North Gate and I
believe it was the first place of business in North Gate.
It was a wood building and they housed the first, I'm pretty
sure, the first College Station Post Office. Of course they
had the post office on campus which was faculty post office.
I believe the first post office was in an old wooden
building at North Gate. Incidentally there was a fence
around the campus, there was a gate there, a steel fence
some of that fence is still there I believe in places. But
huh they closed the gates on that thing at 10:00 in the
evening the guys that were left on the outside had to climb
over or find somewhere to sneak back in.
30
Debbie: Was there some reason they had the fence around
there?
Johnnie: Yea because it worked kind of sort of like a
curfew would work.
Debbie: Ah it worked like a curfew would work. Well I can
remember they tried that. I was in the first dorm that had
women on campus and they did the same thing with us they
locked the doors at 10:00 and you couldn't get back in
which if it was 10:00 and the doors were locked you couldn't
get back in you had to go and knock and tell them why you
were late getting back during the week because they wanted
you to be in by 10:00 so that they
so I can see where we always wondered how they got the idea
for locking everything up so evidently that was an original
Aggie idea.
Johnnie: You were mentioning about grocery store earlier
that Boyett Store, we call it Boyett. It was mainly a
grocery store, but they sort of had general merchandise
store of it too but it was basically a grocery store.
Debbie: Ok. Do ya'll remember that store
Johnnie: No it burned
Debbie: Oh it burned and do ya'll remember when it burned
down, a long time ago.
Johnnie: Let me make a wild guess I'll say maybe 1916
somewhere along there maybe earlier
Debbie: And what were some of the first stores that you
remember
31
Ann: Oh in the North Gate Area
Debbie: That we haven't talked about. Do you remember any
others.
Debbie: Oh yea, was there a name I know it wasn't
University Drive. Do you remember the name of the street or
was it just a road number?
Ann: It was just a street #
Dorothy: Was it Sulfur Springs?
Debbie: I don't think so, that was further down wasn't it?
Dorothy: But right here at the North gate is was called
something else
Lil: and we can't think of it either
Ann: Was it a highway even?
Dorothy: No
Johnnie: Seems like I ought to remember that but I sure
don't. they had several things on Sulfur Springs Road but
they
Dorothy: I can't think of the way back then. Just a road
Debbie: Just a road. Did it go all the way to Snook or to
the Brazos River?
Dorothy: I don't think so
Debbie: Didn't go that far did it. It probably went to
Wellborn Road where it picked up that gravel road
Johnnie: It ended up in Wellborn road but huh that road to
Snook that came much later that University Road that was
just a dirt road and when it rained it got muddy.
Debbie: ah hum
32
Joan: What about the churches were there a lot of churches
as there are now?
Ann: that Catholic Church was there.
Debbie: it was St. Mary's
Debbie: And the old St. Mary's is about where Subway and
Kinko is now is that correct? It was one block up from
where the church that is there now and I understand that was
torn down in he 50's I believe.
Ann: where the filling station is now
Debbie: Where the filling station, right, where the filling
station, that's where it was I had trouble I knew it was on
that block somewhere. Was there any other churches beside
St. Mary's that were in that area.
Ann: Oh yea I can't think, remember, I don't recall. A
Methodist Church in 1940.
Debbie: In 40. And what about the Methodist Church. it
was there in 40 as well
Ann: Big white building, the tabernacle.
Johnnie: A smaller church with a steeple on it.
Debbie: But you all lived on campus before.
Ann: It was considered campus, it was that Tauber Road and
University Drive whatever it was called, it was a little
yellow house.
Debbie: What's there where the house?
Ann: Banks I think yea
Debbie: ok ok but its down
Ann: And Tauber Road is still there
33
Debbie: ah hum I know where Tauber is. When I first moved
here, after I moved out of the dorm I lived in the Casa del
Sol apartments and so I walked Tauber Road to campus, many a
morning.
Johnnie: oh you did, Tauber Road, well where was your home?
Debbie: oh no I lived in apartment when I was in the last
few times and I got to know the roads quite well because I
didn't have a car so I walked everywhere so I got to know
North Gate quite well because that was my walking area.
Johnnie: I guess you know that everybody knows that North
Gate was laid out before the idea that Aggies would ever
have cars. The streets were narrow and everything else it
doesn't work the way it ought to right now
Debbie: That's the way a lot of the places are they were
laid out a lot before cars came and now every one wants to
park on the street as well as drive
Johnnie: Sometimes automobile and get it parked out on
somebody's farm and then sneak out and drive a car on
weekends and things like that, but if they ever got one
them doing it he got kick out of school permanently.
Debbie: Oh so you weren't supposed to have a car.
Johnnie: No heck no. There were no exceptions. You were
kicked out if you were sneaking a car.
Debbie: Oh that would how late was this
Johnnie: That was as late as 1925 -26 somewhere in there if
not earlier
of
34
Joan: I wonder if you could tell us Lil who was
in your family
Lil: Ok Anna & Josef
Joan: Is that your parents?
Lil: Yes, and my brother Josef or Joe and Anna Frances and
Joan: Are you the baby
Lil: Ah hum, Lilian Dagmar.
Florance: Joe's full name?
Lil: Vladmire Josef
Joan: and while your parents were at work did your mother
go most every day?
Ann: No she was at home
Joan: She stayed with the family at home and worked.
Ann - At a later time she would occasionally go to the shop,
but she was a homemaker. She was known through out the
campus incidentally for making speeches about Czechoslovakia
because very few people knew where Czechoslovakia was and
what its history was and so the campus clubs and the Women's
Club would always invite her and she had a full native
dress. She would dress up and make talks to the children
she went to the schools too, but mainly women's clubs She
would translate phonetically you could see her English it
was just terrific so that she would not get confused about
words. Czech is a phonetic language so she would write the
English phonetically and had no problem whatsoever.
Lil - And she loved ... she did indeed. She was really a
wonderful writer for the amount of education that she had.
35
Joan - Do you have any of her writings?
Lil - Ah yes, I think I have a couple of articles that she
published in the paper.
Joan - Did she by any chance keep a diary?
Lil - No, we still have letters during the war, post cards
and letters and so forth.
Joan - And then, Dorothy, what kind of a family did you
have? Dorothy tell us about your family.
Dorothy - You mean my children?
Joan - Yes, who were your parents too.
Dorothy - My parents name was Bucker. Bucker was my maiden
name and when I married Johnnie, I had a 2 year old daughter
and he had an 8 year old daughter and we have a daughter.
Johnnie: Well thell them where you are from.
Dorothy: I'm from Omaha, Nebraska and my whole family
followed me down here.
Joan: Well, how did you meet him?
Dorothy: He was on the road traveling and, in Omaha.
Joan: Why was he traveling?
Dorothy: I guess it was during the depression and the shop
wasn't... I don't know.
Johnnie: I was a salesman for Catchford rubber company.
Joan: And so you were a traveling salesman and you met this
beautiful lady.
Dorothy: Well thank you.
Johnnie: After we met, we were married in about 3 weeks,
weren't we?
36
Dorothy: About 3 weeks.
Joan: And how long have you been married now?
Dorothy: 54 years.
Joan: A 3 week romance and 54 years.
Dorothy: 64 or 54, 54
Joan: Did you work in the shop too or did you stay home?
Dorothy: I worked all over the place too. I worked at the
administration building, worked at the old Triple A, I was
comptometer operator. They don't even have them now. Lord
knows what it is. It was a calculating machine anyway.
Johnnie: Those calculating machines that were invented
during the last 40 years, I saw those expensive calculators
and everything that they had and machines like that. I've
seen several of them that were stacked up in warehouses in
Houston that were 40 feet high and I guess they didn't know
what to do with them. They thought they had to find
somebody that could treat them under some kind of thing that
they could destroy little cars with and stuff like that. I
don't know. They cost thousands of dollars a piece when
they were bought.
Joan: And your children went to this school?
Ann: To Consolidated?
Joan: They went to school here, to Consolidated in this
building or did they go?
Dorothy: No.
Joan: Oh you lived in Bryan.
Dorothy: Yes.
37
Joan: O.k.
Dorothy: My oldest daughter went to St. Joseph's and other
daughter went to St. Joseph for awhile and then she went to
that school on ... on ... there.
Joan: Ross, no.
Dorothy: My one daughter graduated from college. My other
one wouldn't go, she went to merchandising school. And they
both work at the shop.
Joan: Do they work there now?
Dorothy: No, just on Fridays, help with payroll and that's
all.
Debbie: Who works at the shop now?
Johnnie: I'm the only one left from the family.
Debbie: You're the only one left from the family that works
at the shop.
Dorothy: No, our 2 daughters.
Johnnie: From my immediate family. I had 4 brothers and a
sister and they're all gone now. I'm the only one that
remains, what's left of me.
Joan: Did you girls work at your dad's shop when you got a
little older?
Ann: Yes, but it was mainly letter writing. We learned to
type, we did all the correspondence.
Lil: We did that at home...women in the shop.
Joan: I think that you all have done a marvelous job. We
are so excited.
Debbie: We are so excited.
38
Joan: We hope that we've got some good notes.
taken much better notes that I have.
Florence: We need to be sure we have your corrected list.
Lil: If we have other documents and things that we don't
necessarily want to keep. For
uniforms, that type of thing.
that kind of thing.
Debbie: I'll tell you what, I...
Let me cut this off.
Florence has
instance, patterns of the
You know, they're cardboard,
39
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
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Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
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I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
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thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
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I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
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Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
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CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
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