HomeMy WebLinkAboutFaculty and Staff Panel 8Moderator: Virginia Romane
A &M College Faculty, Staff and Support Staff
July 15, 1998 Room 102
ME- Mary Eckles Camera Operator: Bill Kling
BT- Billie Trail
BD- Bud Denton
LP- Lolly Penberthey
Moderator: Ladies and gentlemen, it is great to have you, and we are looking forward to this
session. If you would each introduce yourselves and tell a little something about when you
came here or just briefly what your situation is right now, and then we'll start with the
questions. Ms. Penberthey.
LP: Mrs. Penberthey. Mrs. Walter L. Penberthy. I live at 603 Hensel, but I lived on campus for
quite a few years; and what else did you want?
Moderator: Well, we'll go around and introduce everyone, and then we'll come back with the
questions. Mr. Denton.
BD: Lt. Bud Denton. Retired former school personnel at A &M and A &M Consolidated. We've
lived here since 1946 Spring. I was here in '41 and '42 as an Aggie student.
BT: My name is Billie Trail and we came here in 1920. We lived in three different houses on
campus before I left when I was 19. I'm a widow. I brought children and came home in 1960
when was still alive and ended up eventually having a private practice. Now I'm retired and
live in the country.
Moderator: Great. Thank you so much. Ms. Eckles.
ME: Mary Eckles. I was born on campus and lived, lived for quite a while before moving away
and have been back for 38 years. I am a widow and have a home in College Station.
Moderator Kim.
Kim My name is Kim Fox. I work here at the Conference Center. I am the events coordinator,
and this is my second oral history project to participate in. I really enjoyed the first, and I'm
really looking forward to this one.
Moderator: Thank you, Kim. Now we're going to start with a few questions. We will do one
question and each person will answer that question. Then if you have a tid bit that you would
like to add, we'll come back to that. All right? Now I'll begin with Ms. Eckles. What was
your family or your family members' job and title in their departments?
ME: My father was head of the electrical engineering department and he was the first, first, he
organized and was the first head of the electrical engineering department. He came in 1909 to
A &M, and I was born on campus in 1910. Dr. * ** came up from Bryan on his horse and
buggy and delivered me on campus.
Moderator: How wonderful.
BT: Mary's father was a dean and was acting president for a some time.
LP: Dean Bolton was a wonderful person.
Moderator: Thank you so much. That's interesting. We will have some other questions. And
you Ms. Trail.
BT: My father started out as a civil engineer professor here, and he was a Texas A &M graduate.
He had worked for a railroad for a long time. He came here because of his three children. My
father built railroad bridges. We lived in a modified Pullman car and moved often. The
children needed to go to school. He did not like teaching. He found it very boring. He went
up to resign. There was an opening as Superintendent of Buildings and Grounds. He
accepted that position and that's what he was until his death in 1948.
Moderator: How interesting. Thank you. Mr. Denton.
BD: Well, I was here as a student on campus in '41 and '42 when the war broke out. We
returned in the Spring of'46. We lived in Dean McNew's garage apartment out there in
College Park was our experience. Then I worked Mr. Penberthy was one of my supervisors
when I was rumning intramurals.
Moderator: We'll get into the job description...
BD: Oh, sorry.
Moderator: Oh, that's fine. That's fine. Mrs. Penberthey, would you like to elaborate on your
family when they came here?
LP: Well, I came here as a bride in 1932. Walter Penberthey, my husband, was brought in here
from Ohio State to start an Intramural Department and a Health & Kinesiology Department.
He loved what he was doing; he loved the students. He could face every one of them, one by
one, and call their names.
Moderator: I've heard that. That's wonderful.
LP: They could come back ten years later and he could call them. They were absolutely amazed.
We lived on campus, we married in '32...'33,'34..., oh somewhere around '35 or '36 and that
was a wonderful place to live. One thing, we had children - -2,4, and 6 -- and that was the only
block that had sidewalks all the way around it. All of us had servants quarters in the
backyard. [They'd] get the children up after their naps and push them around in their carts,
but that's the only block on campus that had sidewalks all the way around.
Moderator: We've come a long way, haven't we?
BT: I don't know about that. (Laughter from all) My father brought the second car on campus.
The president had one and my dad had one.
Moderator: Tell me, what was the atmosphere in the different departments at that time? I know
there has to be a great difference. Was there much socializing between the departments at
that time- -more like a family? Would you like to just begin (talking to Ms. Eckles) and go
around and tell us?
ME: I think it was. Everyone knew what everybody else made. They know what they had to live
on, and everybody got along. They had two or three big parties a year. You borrowed from
your neighbors- -your china dishes to help out with what you had. In the summertime if you
didn't want to spend too much, you didn't have to because in May school ended and in
September you started it again -- socially and every other way. It was so hot you didn't do
things in the summertime.
Moderator: Thank you.
BT: Well, it was a very small community When I was a child, my father was with the civil
engineering department, he really didn't like teaching, and in the summer we'd go away. My
father always took his salary (as a teacher you were paid on a twelve month basis) and in the
summer we would go. I always hated the trips [because] we never had enough money to have
any fun. We would camp out for two nights, and then we would stop at a hotel where
everybody could shower [or] take a bath and rinse out the clothes. Then we'd go camping for
two more nights. I really hated it. The college was really like a small town. One of the main
conversation starts in my family as I was growing up was, "You can't do that! What would
the neighbors say ?" Do you remember, Mary? "What would the neighbors say ?" was the
driving force here. They would say something
Camera Operator: Dr. McNew was your father?
BT: No, Marburger.
BD: My experience actually in the community began in 1946. In the beginning Mrs. Pat McNew
was like a parent to us, and the neighbors - -we knew all the neighbors. We were looked after,
just as extended family, period. I worked for wonderful people like Spike White and Mr.
Penberthy. They kept us out of trouble. But that was the year of one of the student revolts, I
believe.
Moderator: And what year was that?
BD: I'm not really sure. It was '47, '48, somewhere in there. Mr. Penberthey and Spike had us
over for hamburgers and that night on the news they talked about the goings on the campus.
The Veterans Organization was fighting Mr. Gillcrist.
BT: It must have been Spring.
BD: Well, it was unfortunately.
BT: Every spring we had a revolt of some sort here.
BD: It was a great time for us.
LP: Do you remember the time, too, that they'd get all the kids out of the dormitories? I don't
know what they were using to get them out, but at your house that night you'd hear them in
the bushes until it would all sort of die down and then they'd all go back.
BD: Airouts.
LP: Airouts. Oh, that's what it was.
Moderator: Where was it on campus?
BD: The dormitories.
Moderator: Oh, the dormitories.
LP: The sophomores, juniors, and seniors would airout the corps freshmen.
BD: Of course, after the war, we had I don't know how many veterans, and then we had the
younger kids - -16 or 17 -- as freshman. It was two different worlds. We had, intramurals in --
veterans groups and in the corps groups plus freshman competition.
Moderator: I see. What a wonderful life.
BD: Oh, yeah.
Moderator: Well, how did everybody get to work on campus? Did they walk?
Everyone: Sure, they walked.
ME: There was a whistle that blew at 8:00 am and you went to work. Then the whistle blew at
12:00 [noon] and you came home for lunch. And the whistle blew at 1:00 PM and you went
back to work. Then at 5:00 PM when you came home there was a whistle.
LP: We had a president that came along, I can't remember his name, and he stopped that whistle.
And we were all lost as to what time of day it was.
Moderator: And that was on campus?
BT: Oh, yeah, the whistle was at the Power Plant.
Moderator: OK
BT: We never thought of our being called a mill town, but that was the objection. We were lost
for a while. It was just like a mill town.
Moderator: Was that your mode of transportation also.
BT: We had a trolley that ran from College Station to Bryan every hour. It costs a pickle.
BD: Two white horses we used to call them.
Moderator: OK. OK.
LP: She would pick you up.
BT: My dad had a state car and a family car. We had two garages in the back.
Mderator: Were there many state cars on campus at that time?
BT: I don't know, I think only he did because of buildings and grounds. He went all over and he
went to Houston very often and he accepted all the bids for building materials and
dormitories, the furniture, paint, and glass. He had to get three bids for everything. He would
go to Houston and sometimes Dallas and look at samples and then choose. So I think that is
why he had a state care because he had a lot of driving out of town.
Moderator: I think part of this has been answered. What buildings he worked in? Answered that
pretty well. Would anyone have anything to add to it at this time. If not we will go to how
lunch breaks were handled in your schools.
ME: We didn't have school; we had to go to a Bryan school. We went on a streetcar and you
either took your lunch or there were residents that lived off the campus that gave you lunches.
Of course, your parents paid for them but you could have a hot noon day lunch.
Moderator: Do you remember who that lady was?
ME: Yeah. I almost told you a minute ago now I
BT: Mary was it Parker?
ME: No I don't think that is right.
LP: Maybe they didn't call her Mrs. Parker.
ME: No it wasn't, it was someone. It will come after a while.
Moderator: Well please feel free to say if you have anything; I want to inject in.
ME: But we went on the streetcars. Sometimes you got there and sometimes you didn't and we
walked from our houses up to Sbisa Hall where the streetcar came in. It was quite a little
walk before and then when we got to Bryan it was about 3 -4 blocks to the school.
Moderator: When was consolidated school starte? I went to Consolidated.
ME: 1920
Moderator: 1920, so this was prior to that. In those days was there sick leave when did your
parents get sick leave?
BT: Oh, I don't think they did. If you were sick you just stayed home and you got your salary,
your monthly salary.
Moderator: and the same thing with vacation.
BT: Oh, yeah.
ME: A lot were paid on a 9 month bais.
BT: As a teacher, my father got paid for 9 months and he didn't like that at all. So he took his 9
months and had it spread out over 12 months which made us poor year round. Because he
disliked teaching he never taught in the summer.
Moderator: So things were more flexible at that time?
BT: Oh, yeah. Very much so, in some ways
BD: Well, I felt fortunate when Dr. Harrington hired me full time in 1949. I was blessed with a
$3600, 12 month salary, kind of unheard of for rookies at least for the time.
LP: That is a lot of money.
BD: That was lots of money. Later we would look back while we were both working and it
seemed that we had more money in those days because we always had people here for football
games. Fed em and seemed to have more with less money.
Moderator: I know with football things change. We always had house guests and took care of
football friends. What about your medical insurance, where was it available? Where was it
available, the doctors college state?
BT: We didn't have medical insurance, we had family doctors.
Moderator: Were they in Bryan or in College Station or both?
BT: Dr. Marsh was at the College Station. He treated the Aggies but he was also allowed to
practice...so we went to him He had an office at the College Hospital. We used to go over
and get our shots there.
ME: He was the college doctor.
Moderator: So it was there always, a hospital on campus.
BT: The hospital wasn't for us. It was a student hospital. But we could use Dr. Marsh
BD: I don't remember. But he turned out to be our doctor as a student. But then I can't
remember Bill May, Dr. Andre and Holt had a clinic on southside of the campus.
ME: They came during WWII.
BD: Ok, well that I didn't know. We just happened on them I guess.
BT: We use old Dr. Searcy from Bryan.
ME: and Dr. Ellenger
BT: That was my father's doctor.
ME: I htink he was the A &M doctor before Dr. Marsh came.
BT: Might have been. He was a surgeon and we had the Bryan Hospital and St. Joseph's. I
think. Didn't we have St. Joseph's, Mary?
ME: Yeah.
BT: And we had Bryan Hospital. The Bryan hospital is right across the side from where the
library is now.
Moderator: I just wondered what type of medical facilities were available then?
BT: Doctors came to your house. You rang they came.
LP: They maybe had brothers or maybe the dad but there was always Dr....
Moderator: In other words they were available to you.
BD: I think people had an attitude like Lolly mentioned a while ago...
Moderator: Now go back each one of you. Go back and tell us if it is redundant then you have
already done that. How did your family come to work at Texas A &M. What brought your
father to work? If you've covered that it is ok. You might want to add to that. Or how was
the staff recruiting done?
ME: My father came from Mississippi where he had taught for 2 years and my mother had taught
at the campus school at A &M which is in Starksville. My father was a graduate of ... and he
came out here. He came to teach physics but when he got here they were just organizing the
electrical engineering department and took over as head of the electrical engineering
department.
Moderator: and that was what year?
ME: 1909.
BT: My father came from (Smithville) and he graduated from Texas A &M and he worked for the
railroad. He had to leave the family at Smithville while he went out to work. He could only
get home weekends and holidays. He was very much a family man and he didn't really like
that life style. I am assumming he applied for a teaching job at A &M and he came in 1920.
BD: Well I've already stated `41 -'42. Returned in February `46.
Moderator: You've already done yours. Lolly, you said you came here as a bride.
LP: I came here in 1926 and ... hired him. Brought him here to start a Health and Kinesiology
Department. There really was no Health and Physical Education such as a department and he
was head of that department and he loved what he was doing and then he was intramural. He
took over the intramural started the intramural program. Got the kids playing all over
campus. Nothing better he liked than when they put these ...around on campus on Sunday
afternoon. Seeing kids playing baseball and not having to run all on campus.
Moderator: I know he was very loved.
LP: Well, he loved what he did and I tell you even now on football weekends the people that
drop by to talk about Mr. Penberthy.
Moderator: Marvelous, Wonderful. Well we feel more memories on the way.
LP: Well he made a difference in the lives of thousands of students.
Moderator: Wonderful heritage. Tell me about the women that worked on campus. There
weren't a lot I am sure. You want to start that way.
BT: Oh, we had teachers. Consolidated teachers were usually professor's wives.
ME: Well there was a teacher but that was in 1920.
Moderator: What about staff?
ME: Well some of them had houses on campus they were from the extension service. The older
women I remember them were from the extension services.
BT: Women worked as secretaries too.
ME: They all came in from Bryan everyday the secretaries but there was a house maybe I only I
think where the extension service had women I think
Moderator: Well in my notes I have the Edge Apartments. Is that in Bryan?
BT and ME: In Bryan.
Moderator: In Bryan, where the single staff lived. Does that bring back...
BT: My folks stayed there while they were waiting for a house on campus.
BD: Now are we still talking about ladies?
ME: I thought that you all lived in the old Shirley.
BT: No, I think that was the place. We lived at the Edge Apartments while waiting for a house.
Then we got a house.
ME: I know but seems to me like the first time I met you ya'll were staying at the Shirley House.
BT: You could be right because I would have been 1 year old. How old are you with that
memory, Mary?
BK: Does anyone remmeber the project houses?
ALL Sure, yeah,
BK: And didn't they have a house mother?
BT: They did, that is right. During the depression boys came from all over and lived together in
those project houses.
ME: Oh yeah and those were fascinating.
BT: and they did have house mothers.
ME: Different counties built the house for boys and it was just boys in their county who couldn't
attend A &M. They couldn't afford to go and so they had what they called these project
houses. They built the house. They sent a house mother in and they sent from the county,
they raised the food. Sent the food in for them.
Moderator: They were self operating.
ME: Yeah.
Moderator: Did any of you that lived on campus did you ever rent rooms to faculty or staff
members?
ME: We always did.
LP: We did too.
ME: Dr. Doak who was head of the
BD: biology
ME: Biology Department. They lived with my family for 13 years. They had an apartment and
their cooking space and everything
BT: My mother rented to librarians. Margaret Mitchell lived with us. My mother usually rented
one room. Things were much looser run then. We would have contractors come in and they
would put up an office building near whatever they were doing. When they left we could go
and buy that building. I remember my mother bought 1 for $90; she had it moved to the back
of the house and she made an aparmentment out of it. It had 1 big room... and she added a
bath and a kitchen then she rented it too.
Moderator: That's wonderful,...improvised.
BT: Well it was during the Depression Days.
LP: Once a bedroom...resourceful. People who rented always had dates on the weekendand the
dates stayed. They were our guest when they were here on campus. For dances or anything
else while we always to move some oThis staff members which were students and they would
have dates and we always took care of them.
Moderator: Those are the things we need to know. How you took care of them on campus and
in what category...
BD: Seems like when I came to A &M in `41 things were so far removed from students. I
remember faculty members living up in the Y. Didn't they?
ME: Some of them.
BD: Not many
ME: I think there weren't but about two rooms up in the Y.
BD: Yeah right.
ME: and that was for bachelors.
LP: And the swimming pool was down in the basement.
ME: That is where I learned to swim and in the summer I, our mothers took naps in the afternoon
and we took all the younger children and went to kthe swimming pool and we stayed in the
swimming pool all afternoon.
LP: and it was in the basement of the YMCA. Is that right?
ME: mmm, uh at the Y.
BT: And it was very dark.
LP: That's right.
Moderator: And very damp.
BT: I am sure there was fungus living off fungus, but it was a swimming pool.
LP: But anytime there was any activity on campus and ... worked in the intramural department
why...Mrs Penberthy can I bring my girl this weekend. So we always kept somebody and we
just made family out of them.
Moderator: That was a lot of hospitality. One thing we would like to know... Do you remember
when there was live stock on campus or people that had chickens or cows or any kind of...
ME: Well, yes. The Waltons lived down below us and they had a cow and we got our milk from
them.
Moderator: That is what we want to know.
BT: There was a couple that lived 2 houses from us on the other side across -your old house.
LP: The... and then the...
BT: And she had a horse in the back. A male, a beautiful black horse. I think she was Virginian.
She used to wear a black riding hat and black riding clothes. Really formal. That is how she
would ride everyday. She had no children.
LP: What was her name?
BT: I don't know.
LP: Well the Summey lived above us. The Porters lived there and..
BT: I think it was Mrs. Summey
LP: Well the Summeys lived next door to us.
ME: He was head of the English department...
LP: lived next door to them.
BT: It was a beautiful Thoroughbred horse black, her outfit was black. She was a nice looking
woman She rode every afternoon.
BD: You are talking about livestock on campus. As late as 41 -42 they were all out there where
the golf course is.
Moderator: ... this is encompassing `49. We need to know details up to that. So there was
livestock on campus.
BD: It seems like everythinge else was across the tracks in that day and time. In the barns,
LP: But the hospital always had a pasture; it kept sick animals on campus.
Moderator: The vet hospital.
LP: Mm Huh.
BT: The army had the horses too. Calvary and field artilery horses; they were across the railroad
tracks and there were cattle, experimental cattle. Do you remember that?
ME: Yes, yes.
BT: One cow had an insert in its side you could see its gasteric workings. Your brother and I did
used to walk across the tracks and stare at that cow.
Moderator: Did you use student workers on campus then as we do now?
BD: That is how I made it through. Let's see I don't remember the exact price but I worked for
intramurals and I had my GI Bill of Rights which was an, I think another $110, $50 a month
from Mr. Penberthy. Like I said I think we had more money then than we did when both of us
was working.
LP: ... and Penn;y sort of got together.. and somebody took care of them.
BD: Well being an intramural manager before the war, I kind of had an edge I think.
ME: We used them for yardwork to help so they could go to school...help them get through
school they did the yardwork.
Moderator: Well, we have help...to get through school, but I am sure it was entirely different
then. How were they compensated just the yard work.
ME: Anything they could get.
BT: Those were the days that you plowed under stuff to save the economy.
Moderator: The maintence, your father Mr. Marburger, took care of all the buildings and so forth
and I think you explained that he went to Houston and other areas to get bids, etc. And he
had a staff.
BT: Oh, yeah. He had a building by himself with maybe 8 -10 people working for him. In the
back Mr. Covington, hand painter, had his place. The plumbers, were back there too and the
carpenters. My dad was head of the power plant, the laundry, all the grounds and a big
nursery greenhouse with shrubs that they put out on the grounds. It was buildings and
grounds. All the housing. People used to always call at lunch because they knew they could
catch my father at lunch. Women would want bedrooms papered, screen porches added.
Moderator: So he took are of the repairs for faculty houses.
BT: And the buildings. When they put up those red brick doritories that was the single largest
building contract given in the whole United States during the Depression. I think there were 6
made of red brick. The army would have them for a while and then the Air Force would have
them and they still change this way. And at that time that was the single largest building
projet in the United States, which to me its incredible, but it was the Depression days and
people just did not have the money and I guess the states didn't have the money either.
Moderator: ....
BD: Bicycle Willie, I remember in the earlier days. Motorcycle Willie, a traffic officer patrolled
the East Gate. Well, he had a motorcycle but I can't remember if this was post war or prewar.
His game was catching cars. So they must have been after him because when I was here in
'41 -'42 there was one automobile in the whole infantry regiment and that was Homer Stark Jr,
who was in A Co. Infantry.
ME: Nobody loved...they just went off for the summer on vacation...and I remember my mother
saying to a friend, she heard that she had to go out and buy candles for ... and Mama said,
"Well, why didn't you go...
BD: I thought maybe...until I came back...
? ? ?: What did Captain Watkins do? Wasn't he some security?
? ? ?: I remember Captain Watkins.
BT: I remember, I think Captain Watkins was one of them. We had several that just walked
around on campus and as I recall they looked like a lot of the seargents looked during peae
time, fat. They could barely get around.
BD: You know, I look back on that too, in the prewar. It wasn't a self -police thing You were
talking about your parents who would tell you now, You know don't do this" and everybody
knew what you were doing anyway. And we found that until control took care of deviations.
ME: Well, I guess the control of the military because all of us students, everybody was in the
military and...
BT: The military and the officers...
Moderator: If your families were not working in the summer in which they were not most of the
time, is that correct?
BT: Well, I think you had a choice, you could not teach at all or you could teach one 6 weeks
and take a 6 weeks or if you wanted the money and they had the students you could teach
another 6 weeks. It really varied from professor to professer, if their families wanted it.
ME: I don't know.
Moderator: You don't have any idea.
BT: I think mine was $4800 a year when my dad was superintendent. Now what you made as a
professor I don't know.
Moderator: ...
BT: Well, we made that much through the Depression until the very last year and suddenly the
state cut all the salaries...because of the Depression.
Moderator: One of the dates we need to know about the the salary change. Was that 1933?
BT: I would guess '32,'33 and it was just across the board. It made headlines in the papers
"State Salaries cut 1/4."
Moderator: That's what we need...was that called a discount check? What was a discount check?
ME: And it was discounted when we put it in the bank and you can't, so you had to put it in the
bank, but the bank discounted it when you deposited the check.
Moderator: So can you expound on that? So you were not paid in cash?
ME: You were not paid in money. You were paid...and when you deposited it in the bank, they
discounted it and gave you the money at the discounted rate.
BD: Right
Moderator: And when did that...about from the depression.
BD: Anytime
Moderator: Were there many family cars on campus and were...
BT: In 1920 there were 2 but see that was very early on.
Moderator: It goes through '49...
BT: People thumbed rides often. We also as little children stood on the comer and highway at
the time, it was not considered dangerous. Aggies highwayed a lot.
BD: Not at all.
BT: Those were not dangerous times.
Moderator: For all the students it was the way they traveled. They just got out on the highway
and they were picked up and taken.
LP: We say on the highway and there would be a bunch of kids who could fill this room and they
kept it in line. Who was first, second, third and didn't get out of line. They would hold up
signs to where they were going.
ME: And people stopped and took them
BT: I married an Aggie and he and four others bought a model -A and they'd keep it on campus.
ME: My boyfriends, some had cars but they were, all kept them off campus.
Moderator: Well the public parking situation during the football games and so forth were they
allowed to bring cars on campus?
ME: They parked in our yards.
LP: That's right.
BT: I forgot they parked in people's yards.
Moderator: Thank you so much I wish you could stay.
Man: Boy I wish they could too, just when it was starting to get good. Can I ask your ages?
BT: I'm 78.
LP: I'm 87.
BD: 76.
ME: 88.
Man: Ok, thank you very much.
BT: Well it was a very different age I can tell you.
LP: I had the children that's all I worried about.
Moderator: Life was simplified wasn't it?
BT: I think it was good in some ways and in other ways it was not. It was really very restrictive.
What was approved was what you could do, it was very narrow.
Moderator: Look at all of the wonderful people who are here today because of it or in spite of it.
BT: Maybe in spite of it.
BD: You know this is everything to me having spent 18 years in public schools. They keep
talking about mentorship
LP: Now what...mentor.
BD: Mentors, this and that, that was just automatic. Now maybe I was blessed with better
opportunities than most. You know my first job when I got out of the service I wasn't going
back to school because I had married. I was going to be a bellhop at the Adolphus Hotel in
Dallas. They had a tremendous training program and my dad said you know being a veteran,
combat veteran, he said, "You are going back to A &M." When I came here I fell in with
these people like Spike White, Mr. Penny, and all these others. We had a summer softball
league. You knew everybody. You know these things are nvaluable. And we were fortunate.
Moderator: I think that is the word, invaluable. Well we just appreciate you all coming What
about the private businesses at Northgate?
LP: Luke Patranella. Luke ran the grocery store and everybody traded there and that is where
you did all of your visiting.
BT: He startedout on the campus and then he moved to Northgate. Well he was a very friendly
guy.
ME: We had one on campus.
BT: Yeah that was like.
ME: No it was Luke's.
BD: Charlie's
BT: Luke and Charlie's
ME: Luke and Charlie's started that one, but then there was one on campus that... I don't know.
MT: I thought it was Luke and Charlie's and then they moved to the Northgate
ME: I don't believe so. Luke and Charlie were off campus.
BD: Eastgate.
BT: Yeah, but I thought they moved.
ME: They were made to move twice and then they broke up and it was just Luke.
BD: Well who was the gentleman that had the Eastgate Grocery?
ME: Well there was something at one time there was something on campus that you could buy
there and it was...
BT: It was a grocery store and it was right across from my father's office, near Melner, I think.
Kling: Luke, Luke was Northgate. I mean Eastgate.
BD: Well that is what I thought.
Kling: but he moved from where Charlie's was on Northgate.
BT: I don't know you will have to ask the person in charge of archives.
Kling: Luke Patranella had a store with Charlie and I don't remember Charlie's last name.
BT: I don't either.
Kling: It was over at the Northgate.
LP: Oberstein was
Moderator: Who?
BT: Oberstein
Kling: Charlie Oberstein. Then I don't kow whether they separated or whether Charlie stayed
over there at Northgate. I think he stayed and Luke moved over to Eastgate.
ME: They broke up and Luke moved out.
Kling: The building is still over there at Eastgate and what is in that building now?
BT: Gosh, I don't know.
Kling: Realty was in it at one time.
BT: Bill Sparks had a drug store there.
LP: In the basement of the YMCA was Casey's.
BT: Casey's was in the Y, yeah.
Moderator: Where was Bill Sparks now?
BT: Bill Sparks was on one corner of Northgate with Lipscomb was on the other.
Moderator: And Casey's in the basement.
ME: of the YMCA
BT: It was a soda fountain.
ME: Also in the basement they had a beauty parlor and we went to the beauty parlor in the
basement of the YMCA. It was a barber shop.
BT: That's right.
Moderator: Do you remember who had the beauty parlor?
ME: It was part of the barber shop
BD: I just remeber, in '41 to '42 our world revolved around Duncan Mess Hall and dormitory 9.
Goodwire Hall for Yell practice: the drill field was out here and out near where Easterwood.
That was it boy. You said NG "where is it ?"
Moderator: Start with Hoover, built in 1946 -47
BT: ...down by the Ravine on campus down across where the gym is now was the ravine. That
was a wooded area right after the war and the kids were allowed to bring small trailers .
LD: Project houses...
BT: There were project houses but they were a little farthere down I think. The ravine was filled
with inexpensive little trailers. The kids sometimes would build screen porches. Just to make
them a little larger.
Moderator: And the was located where?
BD: It was on the east side of Kyle Field.
Moderator: Eastside of Kyle?
BT: Where the gym is.
Kling: NW of the Students Center and behind the president's house
?? and then brought in 2 diffirent types of barricks. We call them in the service. They were 2,
8 man things and then they brought in these double decks. The were down in the ravine
just about where the 4 students fell in.
BT: and 3 of them are kids. We played in the ravine. That's why its called the ravine. I used to
get Poison Ivy every spring from playing in the ravine. But at the end of the 2nd war they
filled it with reall inexpensive housing whatever the kids could bring. A lot of them were
married living on the GI Bill
Moderator: What about the entertainment on campus? I remember Guin hall. Where were your
movies shown on campus?
BD: The Grove
BT: The Grove
ME: We had the...picture show we went to every Sat. night
LP: Of course on the weekends we had big dances and we had invitations.
ME: Big dances and we got formal invitations and we had name bands from all over
BT: Yeah we did have really big hands at some of the dances.
ME: Real name bands
BT: That's right
BD: I worked those dances. That was another plum we got. In addition to 5 dollars...and I
worked all those to keep veterans from bringing in alcohol. I remember one time but one
night one guy came in. You know the guys wore coats then even to go to Sbisa and this
couple was dancing out in the middle of the floor and a pint of whiske slipped down his leg
and broke right in the middle of the dance floor everybody just went right on dancing.
Moderator: Very discreet. Well was big bands...did you have like...
BT: Bill Harris
LP: Ira Ray Hutton.
BD: When I was a sophmore that all girl band I guess... and some of them might have filled in. I
don't remember. You know the Aggieland band.
ME: The Aggieland Orchestra played for the Saturday night danes but for the Rvs dance which
was free Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night dance and you had to have new dresses, new
evening dresses for everynight and they and to be made and the Thanksgiving one too.
BT: I went to Iowa State for my second year of college. I had 17 ball dresses and this was a
farm state the most anyone else had was 2, most people had only one.
ME: And remember what happened to mine? When I came home from college and my evening
dress had disappeared? You and Preston, you were up on the roof You had climbed up on
the roof of the house and left them up there overnight.
BT: We'd play dress up lady with Mary's dresses. And Ms. Bolton had lace curtains that she
folded and we used them as wedding veils. Both Preston and I were brides. He didn't want to
be the groom, it was no fun. But I'm sure Mary was not thrilled.
ME: We were all upset because...had extra help. We didn't kow who took the dresses.
BT: Well Preston and I took the dresses.
LP: Well now you find out.
ME: I know that she took 'em.
BT: That's right.
ME: Now you told the truth.
BT: That's right.
Moderator: Do you remember ...Preston...trip to Canada?
? ? ?: Howard and I were sick.
Moderator: Do you remember about the mail? How your mail was handled? Did everybody go
to the Post Office?
ME: Oh no. It was all done for you in the Administration Building. Your father brought it
home. It was all there and then your father brought it home when he came home for lunch
and dinner.
Moderator: So there was no delivery?
BT: Now a lot of people did have mail boxes. The Administration Building is that old domed
building. And there in one corner was a post office. You'd get your stamps and mail your
packages there. And they also had mail boxes. But my father got his mail at the office and he
brought it home. We didn't have a mail man.
ME: He brought it home.
Moderator: Was there laundry service? I know it wasn't only for the students.
BT: Oh, it was available to faculty. Absolutely. Very cheap.
Moderator: And wonderful?
BT: Oh yes.
LP: And wonderful to take your sheets and have them done and all your laundry and it was just
wonderful. You know we had washers by this time but it didn't equal.
BT: We sent out everything including hose and they would do them and fold them up. In brown
paper bundles about this big with a little string, a white string around it. But the hose came
back on hangers and all the starch clothes came on hangers. Just beautifully done.
Moderator: And that was done on campus?
BT: It was done on campus and you paid for it but it was inexpensieve. Didn't cost anything
much.
Moderator: What a wonderful service.
BT: Yes, it was just great. Everything went out.
BD: I think the students, as I recall when Alice and Hived off campus in '46 I could carry it up
here and I think they would allow us like twenty -three pieces a week. You had your list and
you checked all this stuff off. Then you'd pick it up. They had a schedule, a couple of days
between delivery. I mean you took it and you picked it up.
BT: That was one of the things we hated. Because my husband took the laundry and deliver it
back to the dormitory. That was one of his jobs as a student. There was a long pink laundry
list that you checked off. Five shirts, three pair of shorts this morning and so on.
LP: I can so well remember Mrs...and Mrs...
BT: They worked together on the laundry.
LP: Mrs..was our neighbor. Next door neighbor.
BT: I had a sister Mary's age. A little bit older than Mary and in those days they went most
places together.
LP: And what was her name?
BT: Loreen. Leslie Loreen. Women had to be chaperoned. So Mary and Laurine would go
together and Mrs. Bolton would chaperone one time and mother would chperone the next and
that way they could split that because the girls were really popular with lots of things to go to
and to do. And so I remember Mrs. Bolton would go and mother would go.
Moderator: What was the rules about husbands and wives working on campus?
BT: I don't know.
Moderator: Were there stricter rules? Were there many husbans and wives that did work on
campus?
LP: Not that I know of I worked at home on campus. We had three children.
BT: In Bryan if a woman was married and had been single and a teacher once she married they let
her know she was not allowed to teach because she was now too sophisticated.
ME: I don't know any women on faculty except for the extension service.
Moderator: I guess I'm speaking of spouses.
BT: Well, yeah we had some teachers, Mary, that were spouses. That was at Consolidated. Lots
of teachers.
ME: But that was after 1940.
BT: We're going up to 1949. A lot of the teachers were wives. Many times they were wives
who had no children. Henrietta...taught and she had been single and I think, teaching in Bryan
until she got married and she lost that job for marrying, I think
Moderator: He wants to clarify that.
BD: I was trying to think when Milton Huggett came because his wife was here.
LP: Was his wife Clara?
BD: Clara Huggett was here. Fact it seems like I had her in 1949 but I am not really sure. Then
they got married. But both of them taught English.
Moderator: Husbands and wives teaching on campus.
ME: Never. Not in the early days.
BT: Ethel Walton before she married Herschel was my English teacher.
ME: On campus. But that would be after 1920. Cause that's when the school first came.
Moderator: But we're going up to 1949.
BT: And then Mr. Bartell was married to Lilly Mae Walton. He taught. And Lilly Mae was one
of the Walton children. Two sons...
LP: What happened to Lilly Mae?
BT: She died several years ago. She was in Crestview. And Mr. Bartell had Alzheimer's. And
he was at Crestview. But they both died. They Ethel and Lilly Mae were Walton daughters.
Who else taught Mary? There were lots of wives that taught. I can't remember the names.
When did you leave?
ME: I left in 1928. I lived at home for two years during the war and then he came back in 1960.
Moderator: Can you tell me about the newspapers that you had on campus. your switch board,
your telegraph, telephone were they done locally?
BT: Telegraph was down by the railroad tower. You had to go up into the railroad tower to
send a telegram.
Moderator: Railroad tower in College Station?
BT: College Station.
LP: Now in College Station did they have a tower down here going down track.
BT: They had what you'd call a station and I know that's where people went.
ME: That's right.
BT: You had to climb up lots of starts to get to the tower and they had somebody there to send
telegrams.
Moderator: And your newspapers delivered on campus?
BT: I don't remmeber newspapers. Do you Mary?
ME: The Eagle. We all had The Eagle.
BD: The Battalion and The Eaale. When we came back there were 2 Bryan papers.
ME: Well we always had The Eae1e.
BT: Yea we had The Eagle and...
BD: What was the other one?
BT: It was run by a woman. What was her name?
BD: Roundtree.
BT: Roundtree.
LP: She retired.
BD: But the Battalion I think?
Moderator: Was always on campus.
BT: Ms. Cleghorn was the head nurse at the hospital.
Moderator: Was she called by the students Mom?
BT: Mom Cleghom.
BD: I was on her Student Senate '46 -'47.
Moderator: Tell us about her.
BD: Magnificent person. Fact is if I were that lady right there we would transpose to today she'd
probably be President or Vice - President or something She really ran that medical facility.
Kim: Could you spell her name?
BD: C- L- A- G- H- O -R -N. And then the students built her a house down..
LP: Is that an A or an E in there?
BT: It was an E, I thought.
BD: Well doesn't matter.
BD: She came here after WWI. I guess.
ME: And Herschel and somebody else kept her up after she retired.
BD: Right! Built a house down there.
ME: They built her a house.
LP: Herschel...was another character that was wonderful.
ME: Who?
LP: Herschel Burgess.
ME: Yeah, he paid for. Kept her up.
BD: There were a lot of pictures. When she passed away, I don't kow who came and cleaned her
house but they threw out all these wonderful films Pictures from the 1900s on up until she
retired.
Moderator: What a shame!
BD: Well I've got the name and I am going to check. The boy's supposed to move back here.
He was my neighbor. A little boy. He went down and picked em all up. And I said save em
because sometime somebody for the archives.
LP: Was it about you?
BD: No these were the Clifton boys. But anyway, I promised Bill I'd see if I could.
Moderator: That would be wonderful. We don't ahve any pictures today. The last time we had
some, I don't know if tey asked you to bring them or not.
BT: Yeah, they did.
Moderator: Tell us about apparel. What was worn on cmapus? The professors I'm sure were
dressed properly.
BT: Suits. My father always had a dark charcoal gray suit with two pairs of trousers and a vest.
ME: And when they went to parties they'd wear a tux and evening dresses
BT: And the women wore dinner gloves and dinner dresses and hats in the house. I'll never
forget. It was very English. They do that still in England.
Moderator: For tea?
BT: No, for dinner parties. Formal dinner parties in the home.
Moderator: Do you remember when the social club on campus was started? For the ladies.
ME: Yes, I remember. Well we had it was started during the WW of 1918 I am talking about,
bandages and theygot together wives on campus and made the bandages for the army. And
they enjoyed the social part of it and they started the after that when the war was over. And
they met in the YMCA. And they met up on the third floor and you had tocrawl up al these
stairs and they had to take everything They took all the food up there. And the dishes and
everything
LP: And then we'd take em back down again.
ME: Yeah and then have to toake it down cause there was a little sink but nothing else. There
was no way. They took all the food up there and did all that. How my mother ever did it.
She was crippled and I don't know how she ever did it. But she did.
Moderaltor: Well she probably had help.
ME: Well we always had help.
LP: Mrs. Bolton was wonderful. She may have been crippled but she was wonderful.
ME: But that was when the social club was started.
LP: And what did they Dean Bolton. What was his pet name?
ME: Beartracks.
LP: That's right.
BT: During those days the Aggies had very little money and so the military did not really require
them to wear regular uniforms. They had as a rule khaki shirts and pants but they wore
leather jackets and wool jackets. Whatever they had. Until old Colonel Lewis came. He
demanded everyone look as it they were going to West Point of course the kids could not
afford it. And he was so unpopular that they signed a petition; thousands of boys sent it to
Washington DC. They removed Colonel Lewis -CR Lewis -My sister married their only son.
He was really hated, but he was a real stickler that things just had to be so. Of course during
the depression days, kids came in from little ranches and farms and small towns and they didn't
have much money.
BD: When I came I in September of 1941 they issued us 2 sets of khakis and you bought your
jacket at Wilson's in Dallas. You had to have brown shoes but they furnished the exterior, the
shirt and pants.
BT: But not rain coats and not jackets.
BD: I don't remember.
BT: See that was kind of past the Depression when you were there but I'm talking about the early
days. They did look like a rag -tag bunch.
Moderator: Well I know we could go on and on about the all the wonderful things that happened
and all the not so wonderful things but it truly has been a pleasure.
BD: It has been a pleasure. These ladies made my day.
Moderator: Is there anything in closing, something that we have not covered that you would like
to share?
BT: I remember that my father was so hesitant to have work done on our house. We had a
stucco house. Most of the houses were wooden but we had a stucco one and the ground
shifted and we got a greeat big crack. It was so wide in the music room you could recognize
people walking by. My father was so afraid he'd be criticized for spending state funds to work
on his house that he wouldn't work on his house and old Dr Gieskie was the college architect
and he lived 3 or 4 houses from him. He came to visit one day and he saw the crack; they
were very formal with each other. They were both old Germans. And he said Mr. Marbuger
that house is dangerous. Dr. Gieskie put through the order and put metal rod on the outside
and pulled the house together that way and closed our crack.
LP: We lived next door to the ...boys. Frank Anderson lived next door to the...before we did.
BD: You were all on campus, I guess.
LP: Umhum.
ME: And back in the 1900s between 1910 up we had 2 PhDs on campus. Dr. Ball who was
head of... and Dr. Francis who was head of veterinary medicine.
LP: And he had that museum.
ME: But there were just 2 at one time.
LP: I feel so lucky when I look back to have known some of these. But these 2 gentlement that
you spoke of I knew personally.
BT: Neither of those people had children. Dr. Francis didn't have childres and Dr. Ball didn't
have any children.
ME: Oh yes, he did.
BT: Oh, he had a daughter didn't he.
ME: He had Julia.
BT: Julia Ball right. Who's the one I'm thinking of that lived next door and always had a cane
and he was..
ME: Well that was Puryear?
ME: He had the only house on campus that he owned. He owned his own home. His was the
only one on campus that the state didn't own. Of course when he died it went to the state.
BT: Well he had a beautiful silver headed cane and he was tall and thin.
ME: Never married.
BT: and distinguished looking. And Preston, her brother and I just adored him He always
walked with this cane and we would run up to him and he'd hold the cane like this and we'd
catch on and he'd pull us up and then he would guess our weight. Just a wonderful old man.
Moderator: Was he vet medicine?
BT: No. What was he?
ME: Dr. Francis was vet medicine.
ME: He was dean of the college.
BT: He was a wonderful old man and Dr. Francis was a wonderful old man. There was a time
when a student had a picture...
ME: Well now Dr. Francis had a son too and his name was Deb?
BT: Was it? I thought it was Mark. Maybe I'm thinking of the old Dr. Francis. Anyway,
ME: He didn't live on campus.
BT: No, I didn't know him.
ME: But he had an historic house.
BT: But anyway some students had broughta picture that looked like two different types of trees
that were growing from the same trunk and one said to Dr. Francis, "What do you think about
this, Dr. Francis ?" Dr. Francis looked at it and he turned to the student and said, "Son, I
wouldn't believe that Wit were true."
Moderator: Once again, thank you so much.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
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Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
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hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
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Date
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I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
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original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
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claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
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Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Remarks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: ra
(� _ A� Interview No.
Name 4,0 UY0 Interview date
Interviewer Interview length
Interview Place
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
First audit check by
Oral History Stage Sheet
Sent to interviewee on 9 /1 3
Received from interviewee on_W/ t)
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
(name)
(name)
►
# of tapes marked Date
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Remarks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Oral History Stage Sheet
Memory Lane: Fa elk Ft/!
Interview No.
Name .Q)J - fraig Interview date
Interviewer Interview length
Interview Place
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
cr /z 3 (name)
Received from interviewee on I
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Remarks:
Oral History Stage Sheet
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: lac,u.�i Jt C .�� -,t 6u
/ � Interview No.
Name; C y r- ti Interview date
Interviewer 0 / Interview length
Interview Place
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by
2.;)
, (name)
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date