HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 07Military Oral History February 19, 1997
Moderator - Eileen Sather
Interviewees- Richard Magers
C. J. Allen
Robert Skrivanek
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I am Dick Magers Class of 49 Texas A &M. I am from Boerne which is
the Heart of the German Texas Hill Country. I think this is probably one of the best ideas
I have seen come out of anybody yet (this oral history). It works, its good. I had duel
careers as an engineer with the Texas Highway Dept. I was also in the Army Reserves. I
did serve in the Navy, and I served in the army in Korea.
I am CJ Allen - Born and raised in Hearne. I enrolled in A &M in the fall of
1941, of course the war came along three or four month later. I joined the enlisted
reserves and was told I would be called in when they got ready for us. Early in `43 they
called in 1400 of us the same day to go to basic training camps all over the country. I
went over seas late in 1944 and came back to the states a couple of months after the war
was over, reenrolled at A &M and finally got out after the second summer semester of
1947. I went back to my home town in Hearne went to work for an automobile agency,
worked there for seven years got a chance to buy into the old Cadallic dealership in Bryan,
and have been here for 43 years.
I am Robert Skrabanek, people call me Bob of course. I grew up in Snook across the
river from here. Graduated from Texas A &M in 1942 spent 4 years in the Navy on 4
different ships as a matter of fact mostly in the Pacific. Got out and went to Texas A &M
got a masters degree and Ph.D. from Louisiana State University. Came here at Texas
A &M in 1949 was a professor here on campus for 35 years. Retired in 1984 and it's a
great place to live.
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ES Teaching what?
RS Sociology, But my area of specialization was demography, otherwise referred to
sometimes as population analysis. I wrote many things about College Station and
population growth in Texas in general. I was a consultant to several businesses in
Texas as to where might be the best place to locate their stores that sort of thing .
ES OK thank you Bob now they give me some little chores to do one of them is to
read this little bit to you Memory Lanes Oral History Project for the City of
College Station. This is Wednesday, today is February 19, 1997. I am
interviewing for the first time, Mr. Dick Magers, CJ Allen and Dr. Robert
Skravanek. This interview is taking place at the College Station Conference Center
at 1300 George Bush Dr., College Station, TX. This interview is sponsored by the
Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee
of the City of College Station, TX and is part of the Memory Lane Oral History
Project. Now I also need you to sign a sheet here. This is the one they were
talking about the Oral History data sheet. If you will read and sign there on the
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top line. Now I'm going to ask some questions. Now if you will one at a time that's to
keep the transcriptionist from going bonkers. And if any of you have something you want
to add to a question I'll give you plenty of time to do it if you will just let me know what
you want to say or just hold up your hand or just make a sign for me. If you want to say
something on a subject. Really what we are trying to do is establish how the military or
what effected the military had on the city of College Station.
And all of you have been in the area at some particular time during a military service or on
campus when it was being affected by war, or something like that. So whatever you have
that you would like to contribute to this history we would live to have you do it. They
have given us a list of things that we might want to talk about. And some of them I'm just
going to throw a question out and let you tell me if you have something you want to say
because some of you will have some of you won't.
ES - The first question was how many members of your family were in the Spanish
American War. What do you have in the way of letters, photographs, or
memorabilia from this war? Do you have anything Mr. Allen?
CJA - No.
RM - No.
RS - No.
ES - No nothing on that OK we'll go onto something else. How many members of your
family were in W.W.I any time during 1914 -1918? What branch of service were
they in and what do they have in the way of letters, photographs, and memorabilia
from this war? Do you?
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CJA - My father was in the army. During that time he was overseas and was separated
from the service in 1919. I don't have anything in the way of letter.
ES - Do you have any memory of the time that he was in the service?
CJA - Well no he was separated in 1919. I was born in 1923.
ES - Well how about you Dick.
RM - Well same thing I had a great uncle but I wasn't born, then I know he was in the
army and he was gassed badly because when he came back he stayed in the VA
hospital the rest of his life and died in Kerrville in the VA hospital. That's all I can
tell you about him.
ES - Do you.
RS - No. I have nothing.
ES - Where were you when you heard about the US entering W.W.II? What did you
do next and what was your family doing at the time? Mr. Allen?
CJA - I was enrolled at A &M when I heard the news. I heard the news on Sunday
morning. My folks were bringing me back to school when we heard about it on the
radio. Our feelings were mixed. I really didn't know what to do or what to expect.
I really didn't know what the future would hold for any of us. It certainly was
some topic of conversation for several days.
ES - What was your family doing for a living at the time?
CJA - My father was a lifetime employee of the Southern Pacific Railroad Co. in Hearne.
ES - Dick would you like to
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RM - We were at my grandparents place in Boerne. We were over there slaughtering a
hog and I don't know who but somebody turned on the radio. There was a lot of
discussion and of course there was a lot of hysteria over the radio. I was
interested in the number of Hawaiians that that Japanese bombers had killed. I
figured it was our anti - aircraft fire off the Navy ships that killed them. It's sad but
it's true. Dad was an installer with Southwestern Bell Telephone Company and he
commuted to work every day from Boerne to San Antonio. Shortly after that he
investigated moving into San Antonio because he didn't think he could get enough
gas to commute.
RS - It was in the afternoon I was living in the project houses over here in the southeast
comer of the University. I had three roommates. It just so happened that all four
of us were in our room at the same time and heard the announcement. I remember
one of my roommates, John Box, said was old John he said "Ha, those Japs. Who
do they think they are? We're gonna have em cleaned out in about six weeks."
That's my first memory of it. My father was a farmer and that's about it.
ES - Who in your family, men or women, joined immediately? How old were they and
how and which branch of the service did they join? Mr. Allen?
CJA - I had a number of cousins that were in the service. Exactly when they joined I
don't know, but in my immediate family I was the only male eligible. As I
mentioned earlier my father served in War I. I was the only male member in my
immediate family I just don't remember the particulars about cousins that might
have joined.
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ES - Where'd you go did you join at that time'?
CJA - I joined the enlisted reserve - they told us that if we did that they would see that
we would get a chance to go to OC school in time, so quite a number of us joined
the reserves. Early in 1943, 1400 of us were called up and left the campus the
same day to basic training centers all over the country. I went to the one in Fort
Hood, Texas, took part of my basic training over there and then they sent me to
Ft. Riley, Kansas for the rest of it.
ES - Your family was doing what at that time?
CJA - My father and mother were still living in Hearne. My father was still employed by
Southern Pacific Railroad Company.
ES - You made a statement there that I would like to ask a question about you said
when they told you if you joined the reserve here on campus they would send you
to Officer Candidate School. Did that happen?
CJA - Yes it did. I went to OC school at Fort Knox, Kentucky.
ES - Dick would you like to elaborate on that?
RM - Dad was offered a Signal Corps Commission which we thought was beautiful since
he only finished the sixth grade, but he was an extremely competent telephone
man. An X -ray of his lung found a spot and he was unable to accept. Now others
in the family joined up. My mother's younger brother was on Okagowanuw /10
corps. I had another cousin that was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. In the
immediate family, I have a brother who is younger than I. I joined Navy at the end
of my second freshman semester at A &M for two reason. I would get drafted
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if I didn't. Two, the GI bill. The war was over for all practical reasons, but the
draft continued.
ES Bob would you like to comment on that?
RS I had an older brother Johnny, who had graduated after high school and had spent
two hitches in the Navy. I guess eight years, I'm not sure. And he wanted to do
another hitch. My mother really didn't want him to be in the Navy, so he got out
just before the war. When it came along he tried to get back in the Navy and was
turned down for physical reasons. But the Army drafted him despite that so he
went into the Army and became an officer and served mainly, I think in the Pacific.
I was at Texas A &M in the ROTC program . There were several options, even
though I was in the ROTC program, one option was the Navy had a special
program called a V7 program. If you had a good record academically. And had at
least 9 hours of math including trigonometry and you could pass all of the
physicals, they would let you stay in school until you graduated and would be
called into active duty. And so that's what happened on December 10, 1942. I
went to Midshipmen school at Chicago, Illinois. As a matter of fact, at
Northwestern University and spent about three or four months there as a
midshipman and then got my commission of March 1943 as an Ensign and then got
assigned to a ship in the pacific. I served on four different ships in roughly about
four years time. That's really the beginning I really enjoyed the Navy years. It
was a great thing I got out in 1946 and went to college to do graduate work.
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CJA I had a first cousin named Charles Allen. He was captured on Corrigidor and
survived the Bataan Death March. He survived over four years imprisonment. He
was liberated some time in 1945.
ES Where did family members who joined the service go for training, how long was
training and where did they go after that?
CJA I have no knowledge.
RS My brother was drafted into the Army and he went to Brownwood Camp Bowie.
He did his training there first. I'm not sure where he went from there, but he
ended up in the South Pacific. Like me, he stayed in until the war was over and
was a warrant officer.
ES During W.W.II explain sending and receiving letters.
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CJA Yes ma'am of course we could send mail postage free. All we had to do was sign
our name in a certain place. I did write quite a few letters of course my mom
wrote quite a few more. I carried on good correspondence with several family
members and friends. Over seas we wrote when we could and we had quite a bit
of time to write. They censored our letters, they censored mail coming to us but
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very rarely did they cut anything out. It usually came through as written. Yes, I
did a lot of letter writing during that time.
Es Did you have a problem with receiving your mail, did it come through fairly
regularly?
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CJS It came fairly regularly, now some times I would get letters written at a later date
before I got the other letters. I had an uncle that passed away. I got a letter from
my mother telling me about the funeral. Then several days later, I got a letter
telling me he was critically ill. No we didn't have a whole lot of trouble. They got
mail to us under just almost all conditions. It was a morale boaster and they knew
that so they did everything in the world they could to keep the mail coming.
Es Dick, would you like to comment?
RM I really had no trouble with the mail, of course, I gotta say this; we never left the
Caribbean sea for all practical purposes. I was on a Light Air Craft Carrier, the
USS Wright. I'm gonna have to diverge just a minute. The escort carriers at the
height of World War II were landing platforms built on top of Kaiser Holls. They
were very unstable. So the Navy decided to create a carrier from the ground up.
So they loud the keel for two of them, which were the slapan which was CVL 48
and the Wright, which was CVL 45. I remember, I was eighteen years old. I
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Es Bob, would you like to comment?
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didn't know all this, I learned all this later. But the war was over before they were
launched. I spent most of my time out of Pensocola on the Wright. Mail was
never any problem. Let's get into Dessert Storm and I'll tell you about problems.
RS The only persons I wrote to were my immediate family and my girlfriend and I did
that fairly religiously, I think weekly - something like that. Like CJ said, we
sometimes got little things cut out. Dick and I were in the same territory,
obviously at different times but it may have been the same time. However, I have
one little interesting story to tell. I had been going with the girlfriend for about
two or three years. I found out on one of my ships that I was being transferred
from that ship to the other one. And I had an idea of when my ship would be in
San Francisco. So I wrote my wife -to -be to come to San Francisco. She had a
long developed train trip before arriving in San Francisco. She arrived in San
Francisco in November of 1943. And December 1, 1943 we got married. I was
just thinking how interesting , now we weren't supposed to let any one know
where we were or any of that kind of thing.
MJ Censoring, I think, in some areas was just a joke. Maybe in the European theater
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it was critical, but we weren't censored in Korea.
Es What about telegrams, Western Union sending or receiving? Were any of you
involved in that?
CJA I don't recall sending or receiving a telegram.
Es What about newspapers. What was your experience with them, particularly the
daily Eagle.
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CJA I subscribed to no news papers while I was in the service. Items of interest in the
Hearne Democrat, my mother clipped items out of the paper and mailed them to
me. But I never subscribed to any newspaper. The Army usually published- they
had their own newspaper, Stars & Stripes, but other than the Army newspaper and
clippings that my mother would send me out of the local paper, that was it.
Es Dick, you want to add something to it?
RM Well of course we never read the Bryan Daily Eagle. It wasn't much for A &M
back in the early days. In fact it's only been in the last few years that their sports
writers have suddenly realized that A &M sports are good for the community That
they have had anything nice to say about us. I guess that's sour grapes.
Es You were not in A &M until later?
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RM I started A &M in June 45. I joined the Navy about the third of January 46.
Es What about Bob?
RS I can't really recall, I suspect I received a few clippings from my parents as well as
RM Can I say something. I remembered something. In the Fall of 45, on campus, I
think it was dormitory 7, the one that sticks out into the walk way there.
On the lower -level there was a newsstand and in the newsstand you could still buy
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my girlfriend, but I really can't say that I did.
Yank.
Es What about news reels, movies, movie tone news? Mr. Allen
CJA I just don't recall.
RM We saw them. And the ship I was on, we had a movie every night. They were
always welcomed. We used to always go. We got a lot of news through that.
Es What about radio programs, fireside chats, news reports.
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CJA I didn't listen to the radio too much while I was in the service. We didn't have
radios.
RM We were off in heaven knows, some god forsaken island out there and I listened to
a Texas A &M and UT football game. I remember that very specially. I don't
know what year that was, probably about 1944 -45. I'm sure it was some sort of
armed forces `rebroadcast' and I also remember they beat us in the last few
minutes. I don't know how they did it but on our ship we heard that particular
football game.
RS Occasionally, if there was interesting news breaking up the camshak would cut into
the speaker system.
CJA While we were in the states, I'd call my mother every once in a while. When I
went over seas- never, no telephone call.
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Es So you were kept well informed.
RM Relative to where we were, I'd say very definitely.
Es What about telephone calls. Were you able to or did you make any calls back and
forth, Mr. Allen?
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RM Well the same thing. Yeah, in the states I'd call collect. Dad could get the calls
back home....
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franked and it wouldn't cost anything.
Es O.K. Bob.
RS I didn't recall making any telephone calls at all. Maybe locally, but not to my folks
Es What about transportation, trains, busses, automobiles, airplanes to and from work
CJA Well, nobody had automobiles as I recall. They did have busses going into town.
I seldom left the Army base. As far a doing any flying, I did some flying. But
transportation, when we were transferred usually we went by train. Later on we
had to leave by bus.
Es Dick would you like to make a comment?
RM I can't remember anything but trains. Except that when I got off the train in
Chicago on the 31st of January in this rainy, sleet storm, they packed us in the
back of a cattle trailer and hauled us out to Great Lakes training station so that we
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assignments. What about you Mr. Allen?
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could enjoy the magnificent Lake Michigan. Then we stopped in front of a chow
hall about 3 am and said "Were gonna feed you breakfast now." They fed us liver
and onions.
Es Bob, would you like to comment on that?
RS Yes, when I got called to active duty. I had to catch a train in Caldwell and went
directly to Chicago. Later in between transfers, I remember catching a train in
Hearne, but I don't know where that was going. But also occasionally we would
be flown some where. I remember once I had gotten my orders while on ship. We
had been around Chesapeake Bay and came back down through the Panama canal
and were headed to the South Pacific. While on the way to the Panama Canal my
orders came through to be transferred to another vessel, so I remember catching a
Navy sea plane from Panama Canal to probably Cuba, and catching a regular
plane to New York City. I have no special memories. Yes we went by train, as
well as plane, but I have nothing special to report about.
CJA In Europe they had boxcars they called 40 and 8. I don't recall whether one car
hauled 40 horses and 8 men, or 40 men and 8 horses, but they had no windows and
they were very uncomfortable.
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Es What was it like around A &M College during W.W.II? Some of you were here,
some of you weren't. So this may apply and it may not. A &M's mission was the
war effort to center point. Mr. Allen, would you like to comment on that?
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CJA When we got into the war A &M almost immediately went to a trimester basis.
Where you could complete a year and 1/2 in a year. During the early stages of the
war, actually it didn't seem to me like the war really had an effect on the
University. Everybody went along as usual. It really didn't effect campus life.
RM I agree, we accepted that we were at war, of course. I got here after V D day and
I was here for V J day and I really learned what an air raid in the mess hall was.
RS I was here when war was declared and I remember some things As CJ already
said there was a speed up process where you could graduate and my class did that,
the class of 1942. We got out, I think at that time, in early May. One thing I do
remember is that where Duncan Hall is, several dorms were taken over by Navy
and Marine personnel, I think for enlisted men in a radio school for
communications school. So how many of those were here at that time- I don't
know, but I do know there were quite a few of them. Of course enrollment was
very small at that time and a lot of the kids checked out and left without
graduating to join the Armed Forces. I do believe that there was more emphasis
put on military life before we graduated because of the war. All the time, for
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example, in the project houses we would stand retreat, which perhaps before then
that was not the case.
RS Before I lose my train of thought, I have two things to add. There was wooden
drill hall built for the active Marines and they called it Anchor hall. That's across
the street from the street that leads to the MSC of George Bush that grove
of trees that was back in that particular area Immediately after the war Anchor
hall was still there, but the entire area was converted to parking spaces for mobile
homes for married students. And that's where the Navy and Marines drilled. And
Casey's Confections was the basement the Y and George's was on the corner.
CJA Let me comment on the two dining halls or mess halls that we call them back in
those days, Sibsa and Duncan. Sibsa is the older of the two. All during the time
that I was in school we held formation at every meal. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
And we would march to the dining halls. After the meal was finished we wouldn't
march back to the dormitories, everyone would just scatter. And get ready to go
back to class. We did stand in formation and march into the dining hall all of the
time I was there.
RS In my days as an undergrduate student as Texas A &M everybody wore an ROTC
uniform, even those guys who couldn't pass physicals or qualify for ROTC, they
also wore a military uniform. There were different ROTC branches. I was in the
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Coast Artillery, so some of my friends were in Field Artillery. We had the
mounted cavalry. We had the signal Corps; chemical warfare unit as well as
infantry. Each separate unit had a distinctive ROTC patch on their shirts and
cords of our campaign later. Mine were red and the others had other colors. Even
the guys, for example, who finished two years of ROTC and probably did not
qualify to take advanced military, they also wore the uniforms at that time and
marched to meals. The phsycally disabled undergraduates wore uniforms like we
did, but their patches and campaign hat cords were in different colors.
RM If I could interject, you see this now it's more noticeable in the band be their so
diligent, but they wear the ROTC patch on this shoulder and the Aggie patch on
the other shoulder then they are enrolled in ROTC. If they wear the Aggie patch
on both shoulders they are not in ROTC.
RS The point is, that they placed a great deal of emphasis onthe various branches of
Es What about the A &M newspaper, the A &M news and the Battalion. What do you
CJA The Battalion was about the only paper that I read. I think that's true of most of
the students. I didn't subscribe to the Bryan Eagle at that time. Probably didn't
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the ROTC.
remember about that Mr. Allen?
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realize it was available. But let me comment a little bit more about the students
enrolled in 1941 when I started. We had about 6400 or 6500 students enrolled at
A &M and the first two years it was compulsory military training, to get you to the
best physical condition. The only people exempt were the ones who couldn't pass
the physical. A large majority lived in dormitories on campus. Everybody lived in
dormitories on campus except a few local students who for some reason lived at
home. We called them day dodgers. But we didn't have too many of them. Some
of them maybe couldn't afford to live in the dormitories and eat meals in Sibsa or
Duncan even though things back in that day were quite cheap. I think you could
go to school here cheaper than you could any where else. But the next two years.
Oh by the way, we tried to graduate in four years. They don't do that anymore.
They take five or six years. But the last two years military training was not
compulsory. It was an elective. For those who wanted to continue with the
Corps, they could, but whether they were in the Corps or not they still wore the
uniform. And a lot of them still lived in dorms. They would march in formation to
meals just like the ones that were taking military training.
RS I would like to make the comment and that is there were lots of "so called" project
houses and this started in the mid 30's or there abouts hi which a professor by the
name of Dan Russell took the lead. They conceived of the idea that the poor guys
who really didn't have enough money to pay for the dormitories and meals, they
could form a house, cooperative arrangement. They would go out and get other
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Military Tape II
RS I remember the Battalion newspaper because we got it every day. It was free, by
the way, part of my student fees I guess. And by the way student fees the best I
recall, totaled $50 per semester. Of course we had to buy our own books, but
uniforms were issued by armed forces and that kind of thing. So it was very low
cost. I remember the Battalion played a very important role here on campus and
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areas, other counties, and convince them into building a house up here on campus.
And at one time I believe there were sixteen of those, about where the campus
police are now located. Across from the Alumni center, was the nicest project
house. A group from Washington County paid for it and then the local boys had
first pick at living in those project houses. There was a big demand for them then.
There were three or four project houses is Navasota. They had a plain old truck
with benches in it and those guys lived in Navasota in project houses and came to
A &M. All of them reguardless, wore their uniform and some of them were in
advanced ROTC. Also they would drill and march with the groups in the dorms.
They might have been over 1000 students living inproject houses in the late 1930's
and early 1940's. I remember our cost was $12 per month for room and board. I
remember also at one point they decided to increase our fees from $12 a month to
$15. Some guys I lived with and I speculated that someone must have been
pocketing some money becuse of the exhorbant increase from $12 to $15.
Es Two things here I'm going to put together you may or may not have comments
for. You may have not participated in the A &M college band or the Aggieland
Orchestra.
CJA I didn't participate in either. Certainly we had a wonderful band. I wasn't
musically inclined.
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led a military influence. Our favorite cartoon was called Cadet Slouch,. He was an
Aggie Joke kind of Cadet. Pete Tumbinson was the one who drew him.
RS The Aggieland Orchestra was very popular and they were very good. They
apparently played arrangements by the Big Bands, like Woody Herman, Glenn
Miller, Harry Jones, and others, and that was a big thing. The Aggieland
Orchestra was really something The guys in the Aggieland Orchestra had kinda
some special recognition.
RM I was going to say those dances just sort of disappeared. We had the Artillery
Ball, the Infantry Ball, and they were fun. We had them in Sibsa. It's not like
going to the Dixie Chicken and drinking. I wanted to say something awhile ago
about the money. Recently I'm kind of a recruiter for the Corps leadership
program in the Boerne area. Recently one of the parents asked me what it cost to
go to A &M. I went back the best I could, added it all up and put this all together.
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Es What about the A &M mothers club. Any of you?
RM My roommate and I were cousins by marriage. My junior year, after I had gotten
out of the Navy and returned, he and I were in C Battery and Jim Schnider was in
D Battery, but we were studying together for an exam in thermo and we decided
that we needed a little break. We went over to the east gate to Ed's White Way
Cafe and we bought a quart of Southern Select beer and hauled it back to the dorm
and drank it Passed this quart around drinking it, when this hateful little Jock
Tack officer came into the Artillery Dorm and we should have killed him, but we
didn't and he threw us all on faculty panel. The second weekend was the mothers
club program on campus. Both our mothers were coming up. Frank Uaden was
the Artillery Tack Officer and he was upset with this jock too. We had to sign in
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, & 10 on Saturday and on Sundays we'd sign in at 9, 1, 5, & 8
(notice how long ago that has been). And I still remember those times. So we
were able to take our mothers to the various programs and he's have the duty
officer bring the sign in register out to us for the weekend. So I really thought the
mothers club was doing fine. If they could arrange for something like that! For
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And room and board, laundry, tuition, student activities fees, spending money,
everything, right at $900 a year for two semesters. I don't think you could touch
that even a kindergarten education now a days.
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some reason the San Antonio mothers club has always been big and strong. Now I
hear this about other towns also.
Es Explain going toGuion Hall for orientation reguarding W.W.II. Any of you
in anything like that?
CJA Guion Hall was the meeting place on campus. We used it as an all purpose
meeting place and yes I can remember going there for orientation. Not only for
war but for other things too. That was the place to go.
RM I agree and there is one other thing I think they used the Hall for History 306
finals.
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RS I have a story to tell in that connection. I remember specifically when war broke
out there was a of general assembly. Because I was short of funds, I had enrolled
in the Caldwell National Guard at that time, the #143 Infantry. In those days
everybody thumbed a ride where they went. Every time I went to drill I got paid
$1 so I'd thumbed a ride from here to Bryan to Caldwell to get my dollar and of
course summer camp At the general assembly at Guions Hall and I remember
their asking if anyone was in the National Guard I remember holding up my hand
and them saying "O.K. what we want you to do is check out right now, resign
from the University and all your activities, because you are being called to active
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duty. So I thumbed a ride to Caldwell and called the officer in charge and asked
him if I was supposed to check out and how soon well go and all that stuff: He
says "Look, It'd be foolish for you to go with us. Here you are at A &M in the
ROTC and have this chance to become an officer. And he had such a demand
because every body wanted to go as a group at that time that he could fill all the
slots esily. So he got a discharge for me from the national guard so that I could
qualify for other oppurtunities. This was fortunate because I probably would have
never wound up as an officer in the Navy.
Es Were there local support groups for families who lost loved ones during the war,
Mr. Allen? Do you recall anything of that nature?
CJA I don't recall. There probably were but I was not affected in anyway by that and I
don't recall any.
Es How many churches were here at the time? Do you have any feel for this'
CJA No, mam, I don't.
RM I can't name a specific number but just about every denomination I remember. All
I can say was there were lots of all denominations: Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist,
Catholic, Presbyterians, and the whole works. Also lets add that there was a fairly
active Synagog in Bryan at the time and there was a very strong Jewish campus
group that met over here, as a matter of fact, where the the of fire station is now
- somewhere around there. I would say there was no shortage of churches. I
guarantee that the YMCA played a very big, major role here at that time.
CJA If I may, even the former students association had their office in Y.
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Es Explain the development of the Bryan Base during W.W.II. Any of you have
comment on that, Mr. Allen?
CJA I don't believe the base was here during W.W.II. I don't recall. I left early in `43.
I have no recollection.
Es Bob, do you have any?
RS It must have been sometime during because it really got to be, at least locally, a big
thing. I really can't speak for them.
Es. What about the involvement of Culter field during W.W.II?
CJA I knew nothing about it.
Es Explain any work you're family did to go away to work or the war effort such 25
factory ship yards, prisoners of war camps, or anything like that. Were you
involved in that?
CJA No one in my family left my sister and I were both in school and my father had a
job with the railroad company in Hearne so nobody in our family left to go to work
in the shipyards for the war effort.
Es How did W.W.II affect local business prices? Did it go up? Credit, how good
was it arranged, receiving and shipping goods by train, truck, bus, air?
Advertising, radio, newspapers, flyers, work force.... Did many women start
working there and where? Anything you might want to comment on in that
section.
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CJA I don't, either. I was in school until early in `43 but I had no idea of how the war
was affecting different things. I was in school. Hearne was always a big railroad
town. Most of the shipping came in and out of Hearne by rail.
Es What was it like on the home front regarding you a long list who
you might have comments on some and not others: Rationing - what goods were
rationed and how, blackouts - were there black out curtains on windows, shopping
local out of town. Fashion - what was the in' thing; the YMCA at A &M, could
non - students attend golf - the course in Oakwood subdivision. Big Bands which
ones came here . Victory gardens - how many families per garden? Socials -
how many were held at home, churches others. Entertainment for wives whose
husbands were away at war, watching troops train go through our area. Watching
convoys of military equipment go through our area. School holidays - were there
extra days off for war reasons; farming, cotton, so forth - did it continue and what
else was growing?
CJA I don't think I should comment on those things For some reason those things
didn't make an impression on me. I wasn't looking at those things. I'd rather not
comment.
RM I'll comment on the one thing that I love the most - Big Bands. We had Glenn
Miller. The Dorsey Brothers still weren't talking to each other so we had 1 at one
time. God, we had good music. They didn't charge us that much.
RS To add to what Dick said - I remember our senior dance. Russ Morgan played,
and you're right, we had the big name bands. Those were really something. Costs
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were minimum. There was this thing going on between Texas A &M and T.S.C.W.
( the Texas State College for Women) on weekends, many of the guys had dates
coming from there. A number of my friends, that's where they met their future
wives this way.
RM If you were a brave person, really daring, you would write to your post office at
TSCW and ask their post office for a date and you would never know what you
were going to get.
RS Many of the girls would say yes. That was really a big deal because that was an all
female institution and this was an all male institution.
RM When governor so and so said in 1877 that they were going to close the damn
thing down and make a penal colony out of it, we had no activities, no pastimes. I
mean sneaking off and going swimming in the Clay pits was the most adventuring
thing we did. We had a few pinball machines at the Northgate. We had beer and
barbecue. On Wellborn Road we had the White Way Cafe over here at the East
Gate. This was desolate. The only reason I wasn't desert was because we had so
much rain.
RS In these days it was very popular. I don't know - there may have been a half a
dozen guys who owned automobiles but no students owned automobiles. We
would thumb our way no matter where we were going.
Es Weren't there places on each highway where Aggies gathered and it was the same
in each town? That's where the Aggies would go. You'd pick `em up there, take
`em to somewhere.
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28
RM You got in line. The first person in line, he got the first ride out. The second one,
he stood in line and waited your turn. The one who's been in line the longest,
they're the one who got the ride.
CJA Out here on Six it was right at East Gate if you were going to Houston. Going to
Dallas it was across the road. San Antonio was where Broadway and Austin
Highway split and Austin was Congress and First.
Es A couple of other items : air raid warnings and air raids or recycling efforts - scrap
metals and so forth. Where did they go - any comment on that?
RS From our girlfriends, from our parents, we learned that, yes, there was rationing
but we had nothing to do with it. I know that the women could get a limited
number of stockings. People had rationing stamps for, I believe, sugar and
shoes...gasoline, and tires by the way.
CJA You know that there was never a gasoline shortage from driving consumption in
W.W.II? It was the lack of rubber for tires. Easiest way to control it was by
rationing gasoline.
Es This next one, I know you're going to want to spend a lot of time on it because it's
real important to ya. So, uh, explain what you know about the filming of the
movie at A &M in 1942 called "We've Never Be Licked."
RS Do you know what time of year this was `cause I don't remember.
CJA Two ladies, a blond and a brunette. But I can remember very well because we saw
them everyday out there filming They were out there filming, I remember Robert
Mitchum, uh, they didn't have a certain place to go to change their clothes. They
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29
just went out behind a car. I can remember when Robert Mitchum stripped down,
changing his clothes and when he was a young man he was pretty well built.
Physically he was a pretty good man. Very nice. We watched their daily activities
and the corps to some extent participated in group scenes, I remember the cavalry
participated in some of the scenes - mounted on horseback. And some of the
other organizations participated in some way. They were on campus for several
weeks.
Es How long did it take them to make the film if you know.
CJA Oh, I don't know. 2 or 3 weeks, it seemed.
RM Buck Weirus and Dick Hervey are in another group. Both of them being former
executive directors of the association. Uh, the guy that played the lead I have
never seen. He's the one that brought the dive bombers in on the carriers. I don't
remember anyone except Robert Mitchum and Noah Berry, Jr.
RS The Class of `56 took on a project to raise money and buy the rights to that film.
They got it and they had it digitized and had it fixed up. It's for sale as a
record/videotape.
Es Explain experiences in the military regarding C rations, mail call, receiving
censored mail, boxes from home, local newspapers, entertainment, anything in that
like that you experienced.
CJA Most of the time they would try to get us hot meals but a lot of times we had to
fall back on the K rations and the C rations. I really can't remember the difference
- one of the the main dishes was Spam. I developed a dislike for Spam; you know
29
30
they tell me now that it's pretty good. The other was, I think it was the K ration,
that you had some cheese - highly concentrated cheese.
RM Everything in the K's was packaged. Packaged and Sealed. In the C's it was
hamhocks, lima beans, and pork and beans.
CJA I had my share of `em. I know that. But if you're hungry, if you can't get a good
meal... it beats nothing.
RM These MRE's, these meals ready to eat, were used in Arabic countries for Desrt
Storm. They're also called "Meals Rejected by Ethiopia"
CJA There's the K ration and the C ration. The only two that I remember.
Es I think we've talked about all this at some other place other than here. So, explain
any of the following you and your family were involved in during W.W.II. Battles
engaged in, meals received, famous generals you encountered, military service in
any other way.
CJA I was a member of the seventh army and that was under General Patch. At war's
end, the 7th army had a mission of linking up with the 5th army. Under the
command of General Clark and we were supposed to meet up at the top of the
Brenner Pass - which is between Austria and Italy. Some of the other generals that
we came into contact with...General Patton, he was a real character - wasn't happy
unless the fighting was fast and furious. He was a true warrior. The last action
that I viewed was on approximately May 5, 1945...Austria and the last mission we
had was to make the drive up through the pass, Brenner Pass. I think our division
was chosen because we had a brand new division commander named Anthony
30
31
McAlliff. He was promoted from brigadier general to major general shortly after
that. So I suspect that was the reason we were chosen to make the last run from
the North going down South into Italy. As I said the fifth army was coming up
from the South. I was in a reconnaissance troop. My platoon was chosen to lead
the task force. That's where the war ended for us. Now the war didn't actually
end for about three days. I think it officially ended the 7th or the 8th. But this was
the last action we saw. The thing about it is we encountered absolutely no
opposition. The German army had received word that it was over, it was finished.
It was a distance of about 25 miles between Ensbrook, Austria and Brenner. We
started out toward the Pass somewhere between 10 and 10:30 at night. Of course,
everything was blacked out. We hadn't seen a light on a vehicle - well, I don't
know. I don't remember. We got about 1/3 up the pass and encountered no
opposition and they told us to turn on the lights and we were just to drive the rest
of the way. It was the damndest thing you ever saw, looking down the pass and
seeing your...the way the road was running up the Alps. Just one turn after
another but then you look back down there and everywhere you could see
headlights. We got into Brenner, about 1:15, 1:20. And that's where the war
came to a close for us. About 2 or 3 days before the war officially ended.
Es Thank you. Dick, do you have a ...
RM Well, once again, I was, really didn't participate in W.W.II. Too young. My ship
did cruise in the Caribbean over home port, Pensacola. We were about to receive
a regal visit from a fellow, the name was Nimitz, native Texan. And I was allowed
31
32
to go along on the flat bed having baggage being moved from his personal plane. I
thought I was lucky.
RS Because of the kinds of vessels I was on, we were away from the major action.
My first two ships were ammunitions ships. We took on live ammunition and then
went out to the Pacific and as the battleships and the big boys expended their
ammo we'd take their cartridges home and come back to the states. And then as a
result of that we'd always go with the vessels anywhere there was a major battle,
but we were way out of the way because if we got hit several ships would go
down with us. So we weren't that close to it. And then my 3rd ship was a water
ship; we made fresh water out of sea water and then gave it to the other ships So
in a sense I didn't get into the thick of the battles. But at the same time we were
always dodging submarines and one thing or another. I got by the time the war
was over there must have been 100 islands or more that we were anchored at or
near. But I really wasn't ever involved in what you'd call major battles.
CJA You did ask about any medals - I was awarded the bronze star medal.
RS I had a bronze star for my Philippine Liberation medal.
Es Explain what is was like as a retiring veteran after W.W.II to our area regarding an
adjustment to the community housing. Where were there places to live, continuing
college, fitting in with the non veteran corps, college graduation, finding a job, cost
of living, marriage, and having children, medical facilities that were available
locally. We don't have a whole lot of time left so if you could briefly make a
comment or 2 about some of this
32
33
CJA After W.W.II, every retired serviceman you knew, it wasn't like it was after
Vietnam, was treated like a hero. I immediately enrolled back in school shortly
after I got out. I stayed in school, graduated. We were treated very well. A lot of
the servicemen were getting married as soon as they got back. As far as I can
recall, housing was not a problem. I was not one of the fortunate ones who
married right off Think I was 30 before I got married. Everything was great.
Everybody was tickled to death that the war was over and there was no animosity
anywhere and everybody was ready to get on with their lives.
RM W.W.II people came home in groups and they were welcomed home as groups.
After Korea I guess we kind of infiltrated back but we didn't face the animosity
that the people from Vietnam faced. I don't know - I think if someone would have
spit on me, I'd have probably killed him
RS. I have only to second what he really said. When I got out everything was fine. I
had no problems. I got married during the war. She came out since she was a local
girl. One of the reasons I got out after the war was that they declared if you had a
certain number of points then you could get out.But the commanding officer of my
ship wouldn't let me go even though I had the number of points, claiming that I
was essential to that ship Totally untrue. The truth of it is that as a navy man -
his status had to do with how many officers he had under him, all that kind of stuff
- he wouldn't release me. But there was a clause that said if someone was
continuing their education they had to be released. So I got out on that basis. I
have nothing but good things to say about the GI Bill when I got my first degree I
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34
said I was never going back to college; then the GI Bill came along, which gave
me a good reason to get out of the Navy and was a major factor in my getting my
M.S. and Ph. D. degrees.
ES One thing we didn't get in, the Korean War you got your medals, would you tell
me about that.
CJA I said that earlier.
ES OK, the next question is, is there anything else you would like to add to this
discussion?
CJA I believe I'm through.
RM Fellow named O. D. Butler out of College of Agriculture in 1948 was recruiting to
organize a field artillerybattalion reserve here. My roommate and I were 2 of the
suckers that signed up. This was the 897 field artillery. Since we were artillery,
we were all called up individually for Korea. The army knew how much we were
doing. That's progressive experience - interesting. For example, we'd just left
summer camp, July 1950 on a Saturday. Our active duty terminated at midnight.
At about 6:00 am Sunday, Western Union was at my door ordering me back to Ft.
Hood, TX. And bused me to the airport in Austin and shipped to Travis AFB then
Hawaii then Tokyo. We pulled old first cavalry div. equipment out of storage and
loaded them on boarda ship. Sept. 15, 1950 loaded the equipment on barges and
started shooting, supporting the 1st Marines. I got a bronze star and was
promoted to master Sgt.
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35
RS I want to add one thing- I thoroughly enjoyed my years in the navy. They were
wonderful. After the war I had the privilege of staying in but was not for me.
RM Well I was pleased that I stayed in the reserves. I retired April 1, 1980 as full
colonel. My last significant duty was Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations, at
Headquarters Fifth US Army at Ft. Sam Houston which was unique because here's
a reservist called to active duty to fill a position. I enjoyed my reserve duty.
ES I thank each of you. You have been wonderful. You have cooperated so
beautifully I enjoyed it and hope you have. You have made a contribution to what
they are trying to accomplish with the history of this area.
35
Memory Lane:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Military
Interview No.
Name Robert Skrabanek Interview date 2/19/97
Interviewer Janell Zeigler Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2 /19/97 # of tapes marked / Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Y f 4 i& Il 4 'Kitt Pages 3? Date 1 1/9 117
First audit check by '�'„ (name) Pages 37 Date 1 0 /7 7'
(name)
Sent to interviewee on 4 , ' 1'
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narks:
April 7, 1997
Mr. C.J. Allen
1314 Brook Hollow Dr.
Bryan, TX. 77802
Dear Mr. Allen,
CITY OF COLLEGE STATION
Conference Center
1300 George Bush Drive
College Station, Texas 77840
(409) 764 -3720
FAX: (409) 764 -3513
We'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be
interviewed on February 19, 1997, for the City of College Station Memory Lane Oral History
Project on the Military.
We truly enjoyed transcribing your interview and find your memories of the past very interesting.
I ask that you please read over the enclosed transcript, which has been double spaced and cross
out whatever you feel does not belong. There may be names of individuals or places that are
incorrectly spelled. Please, feel free to correct these. In transcribing these over a tape, there are
times that an individual may have dropped their voice or maybe looked away, or maybe even two
people were speaking at once. These incidents made it difficult to understand the tape. Please
understand that if any thing was put your transcript incorrectly, it was not deliberate. I ask that
you make all corrections and return the transcription to the Conference Center by May 30, 1997,
if at all possible.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to call me at 764 -3720. Once again, thank
you for participating in the Military Oral History.
Since
Martinez
r Secretary
9. marks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: Mi litary
Oral History Stage Sheet
Interview No.
Name C. Allen Interview date 2 /19/97
Interviewer Janell Zeigler Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2/19/97 # of tapes marked
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions - if yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Sy/Li, / .t,{;,14.4 Pages Date r1/4571 2_
(name)
First audit check by 1-40.44A c p,,,., —1-747-r..., :4 Pages Date 7 a $1.
(name) -
Sent to interviewee on I-11 , "I ,2
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'1/
Date f
Copy editing and second audit check by (
Final copies: Typed by
(name)
Pages
Pages
Date �.� 11 / Ti p
Date
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2 ) Pages Date
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Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
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Deposited in archives by: Date
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: Military
Final copies: Typed by
Oral History Stage Sheet
Interview No.
Name
Richard Maiors Interview date 2/19/97
Interviewer Janell Zeigler Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2/19/97 # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received
Date Signed Yes No
Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by t ice. ;',6c? Pages 1 9 Date / f/ �/ p �
(name) [ l
First audit check by �4.)ou � �„ _ "�'" � ) Pages Date Yi '1
'
Sent to interviewee on :�, t/ 7, /
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by / Pages
(name
Pages Date
Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2 Pages Date
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Date:
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Date:
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Deposited in archives by: Date
?marks: