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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 08A.E. Denton Glenn Morgan Ted Franklin VI-eJLi-)el - B , LaJ(Icas- ,S B/L This is February 19, 1997, we are in room #103 of the Conference Center on 1300 George Bush Drive in College Station. This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Then, we will proceed to introducing each other. I am Bill Lancaster, I am on the Historic Preservation Committee, and I volunteered to be a moderator for this group. So Bud we will go to you next. Bud Well, my real name is Allan E. Denton Jr. but everyone calls me Bud. I'm retired and I have been here since 1946, and 2 years prior to that as a student. B/L Glenn, What about you? GM I retired from Texaco in 1980, Camp Creek Lake and I have enjoyed it ever since. B/L Well great, alrighty, what was you , you had association with...you were class of A &M... GM No, No, No, No, I just was in the Navy...in the military. B/L Your history with College Station in the area began when you retired from Texaco? GM Yes, plus my granddaughter graduated from A &M. B/L Oh good, great, Alrighty. And, Ted what about you? TF Well, I am Ted Franklin, retired veterinarian, came here in 1936 from Amarillo, Texas, graduated in the class of `41 in Vet. Medicine. Was here 5 years in the 1st Veterinary 5 year class. I was raised in Amarillo, born in Wichita, Kansas, lived there 5 months, then in Amarillo the rest of the time. B/L Well great, Alright! My daughter -in -law lives in Wichita Falls. TF Well, I meant Wichita, Kansas. B/L Oh, Wichita, Kansas. TF That's where my dad started his business. B/L Okay, Alright, that's great! Well, we are interested as I mentioned out there, in any information you can provide that would be of interest to the City of College Station, and the surrounding area, just to gather information. So Bud, What can you offer? 1 BUD Well, I brought along this thing that Connie Dodd did for our class, you may want to run a copy of it. It is more or less the contribution that the class made during W.W.II. Ah, we lost a large number. In fact, I guess our number on the board in the MSC is probably the largest. B/L Class of what? BUD 45, and then I have a study here which some young lady did for a master program in journalism as she traced the development of Military Science at Texas A &M, if you want a copy. B/L Can we have a copy of that? BUD If you can run a copy, you certainly can. I did not have a chance to clear this with her , but I'm sure it's all right. I'll call her tonight. B/L If you want to check with her. BUD It should be public record. B/L Well, I guess it is, doing graduate studies, I guess it is. Well, I'd like to have a copy of both of those. Now, when did you go in the service? Bud Well, came to A &M in Sept. 1941 and, of course, I was an out of state from Tenn. and my dad had given me a choice. He said, "If you are going to go to college in Texas, it ought to be Texas A &M or the University of Texas, and being a veteran of W.W.I I he said it would probably "behoove" you to attend A &M, I remembered the word "behoove ". So, I got on the train and when I got over there at the station, did not know a soul, and took it from there on for 2 years. Then volunteered for the service. B/L So you were here? BUD 41, 42 and when Pearl Harbor was announced in Guin Hall. B/L And you went in what the Navy or the Army at that time? BUD Army. B/L Oh you went in the Army, OK. BUD Infantry. B/L Infantry! OK! 2 BUD And served in Italy 88th infantry unit for 14 months, then came back to A &M, the wife and I in 46. And we rented Dr. McNew's one room garage apartment, and been here ever since. B/L Ok, now you came back in '46 and finished your education, what in? BUD Well, I had a physical education and minors in history, language, and english, then I went to work for the veteran testing service, in Bizzell Hall. Holloway Hughs was my boss. I guess he grew up here. (Son of the Education and Psychology Departments) B/L He did indeed, he did indeed. BUD My connection with College Station is probably deeper than most. B/L Your wife, Alice? BUD We were married in 1943 before we went overseas. B/L Did she work or what did she do? BUD Student, then later 1968 graduate, Volunteer Girl Scouts, church organist, and raised three sons. B/L Ya'll came back to marry, did she work then, while you were in school? BUD No, a housewife, we had no children at the time. B/L Now you taught me tennis while I was at A &M, I entered in '45. Were you still in school at that time? BUD I was a graduate assistant, we taught 12 hours, 2 of us taught 12 hours Les Palmer and I and Mose McCook for $270 dollars a month, they got 36 credit hours. Which was fine, you know. I worked for Spike White in intramurals, so that was something that was income with the GI Bill. B/L What do you recall about the military impact at that time? Of course, this was the era of veterans returning right at this point in time. What are your recollections of that? BUD The vet village of course, over there by Kyle Field and the trailer village, it was all veterans. Well, they had some old barracks, 12 man barracks, and two couples, back to back and they had trailer corps which was directly east of Kyle Field. And then they finally took two old 2 story army barracks and brought a bunch in about where the Clayton Center is now. Married students lived in them. Well, to me, it was just a very homogeneous group. Everyone in the same economic status. 3 B/L Had to be in such close quarters? BUD Well a couple of football players delivered ice, Eddie Dusek and Old Burl Batey in the College View Apartmetns in the area east of College Ave. B/L Well let's go around the table, then we'll come back to you as you think of other things. Glen, how did you get into the service, the circumstances and all this sort of things? GM I can't give you much information on the College Station area, I was drafted into the army. I waited till the last minute, I worked for Texaco, at the time. I think three of us were left in that particular part of the community, got on a train in Chicago. We got off the sailing at Dearborn Station up the stairs, and this big military, army bench. We took one look at this bunch, then I saw a navy guy down the hall and said "You guys want to join the navy ?" They said "anything but this." GM So, he said "certainly, down those steps," and I said `eve were apparently drafted into the army." He said "no, your not drafted into anything until you sign it." And so he sent us over to the Military Navy people. And so, Texaco had given me a packet of information on how bright I was. Which of course wasn't that bright. I had worked in the engineering department with surveying. And so a seaman came over and said "Hey, we need you we need you." And then a big Marine came over and said "we need you." Finally, I said, `ve really want to join the coast guard." They said, no we're afraid not, this is full, so we all picked the navy, and this was my entrance to the Navy and then I went to boot camp in Green Bay. B/L Where did you grow up where did you leave from? GM I left from Salem, Illinois. I had graduated from high school in Salem, Illinois and had gone to work for Texaco pretty shortly there after. Texaco kept my continuity going through the service, even sent me some nice war bonds which fortunately came in handy because I think when I was discharged from the Navy in Norman OK, they gave me 300 bucks and said bye. But I did I went back to work for Texaco and went into gas processing, and in '63 I was transferred to Brushings, Texas to start up a gas processing plant. Then transferred to Houston in 1980, took early retirement, and came up to Camp Creek. 4 B/L Camp Creek, O.K. When did you go into the navy or do you remember? GM I believe it was 1943, March of '43. B/L And got out when, '45 -'46? GM '45, somewhere in '45. In Norman, OK in November, I think. B/L Well generally then where did you go from Norman, Oklahoma? GM I went back to work in sales for Texaco and this was when they transferred me into the gds processing, then they transferred me down to Brushings, Texas. B/L What do you remember the impact of the end of the war in 1946, what impressed you at the time? GM What impressed me the most at that exact time, was the day I walked out of Norman, Oklahoma with my discharge papers and didn't have to go back. I was impressed by that. But I really don't have any feelings about the impact, I have no idea. It just came along and everything goes along, I had no big problems. Texaco was very good . B/L Well Ted, what about you? Now you came here in `36? TF Yes, I had never been to south Texas in my life and my knowing high school friends said "oh, it never gets cold down there." Then the winter of `36 -'37, a wet cold winter was much worse than this one (97). I almost froze to death ,many a time I wished I was back in the Panhandle, hearing the wind blow. So I came in on a bus the first time and I remember him... What was his name? A Mexican fellow over at the Aggieland Inn. Pete Rodgruiguez? - Maybe, but they called him Babe, I believe. No, I can't come up with it right now, but he helped me unload the trunk off the roof of the bus at the old Aggieland Inn and that was my first experience at A &M. And then at midterm I changed to Veterinary Medicine. When I came down here I had had a year in junior college. I transferred all of my fish work. So I was a fish on the campus and wore a white stripe on my right sleeve but had most of my classes with sophomores, juniors, and a few seniors. I took all of the animal husbandry courses in those days. O. D. Butler and I were in the same meats lab in the spring of 5 `37. And, yes, I want to bring this out, I was a witness when President Walton came down and shot A &M's last buffalo. They were afraid that the students who came out of Pfeuffer Hall (1st A &M Consolidated High School) in those days they would come by and agitate the buffalo. The buffalo was behind a little old thin plank fence, which was behind the Animal Science Building. A strong billy goat could have knocked it down, but the buffalo stayed in there. Students would come by and hassle the buffalo and the authorities were afraid that the buffalo would get out and do some damage. So President Walton came down and shot him, and I happened to be there as a witness. So anyhow I almost got into the navy. I was a veterinary student and in my junior year the veterinary students were automatically graduated as 1st Lieutenants. They gave them an automatic commission, in and my Jr. year they dropped that so I didn't get a commission. I had two years of military service in the corps but would have had to go to summer camp the summer after I graduated so I just declined a commission. When the war broke out I was more or less equivalent to a buck private. I had a married classification when war was declared. I was married the day after graduation (May 1941)- about six months before Pearl Harbor. In fact, I was a U.S. Veterinary meat inspector at Fort Worth when Pearl Harbor happened. In 1942 I went to Amarillo to the City Health Department as a prt time meat and dairy inspector. There was a clerk who sort of ran the draft board and he kept bugging me until finally I volunteered for the navy. I went to the army, but they said, "no you'd have to start as a private" so I said "no I've had two years as a "buck private." I went to the navy and they said we will give you a Pharmacist Mate 1st class, I was a graduate veterinarian, I said okay and so we were to go down to Dallas on a Sunday to sign up. On the previous Wednesday I came down with some new disease that turned out to be Brucilosis (Undulant Fever) and that was the end of my prospective Navy career. And so, I fought that disease for 15 years or so. I went into practice for almost 2 years in Memphis, Texas. Then I went to Fort Worth for 1 year with the Livestock Sanitary Commission and came here in `46. I went to work in the Division of Vet Science of the TAES under Dr. Schmidt, in Francis Hall. In 1967, I left A &M and was 2 1/2 years overseas with the United Nations in Santa Domingo in the Dominican Republic. Then in 1970 to Tanzania East 6 Africa one year and 9 months there. Came back, but couldn't get a position here as a proposed research project failed, I went to California in `72. I was a vet out there and got my license and retired from the State of California in `86. B/L So when did you come back down to A &M? TF In `46. B/L In `46? TF Yes, I was married and had about, let's see, at that time. I think we had 4 children. The fourth one, Judy, was born in Ft. Worth. Some of my daughters went to Consolidated. We lived in Bryan. B/L How long was it, then, before you went to the Dominican Republic? TF I went to the Dominican Republic in `67. I left A &M then. 21 years here. B/L So, you were here 21 years, TF 21 years on staff here and then I went to the Dominican Republic in '67 and East Africa in `70. I came back in `71. Then went to California and was out there for about 14 years and retired back here to Bryan in `86. B/L Was Dr. Marstellar the dean? Yes, when I was a student. TF Oh, yes! In fact, my father was Dr. O. M. Franklin. I might mention, he developed the first successful Blackleg vaccine in this country. He wasn't a man who wanted much publicity but he got it regardless because of his work. B/L He was your father? TF Yes, he was my father. So I came here and of course, Dr. Marstellar knew who my father was. In fact, he met my father here. My father knew Dr. Francis, but Francis had died in June of `36 before I arrived in late August. My dad and mother came down here to visit in the Spring of `37. Dr. and Mrs. Marstellar had us over to their house on the campus. Dr. Marstellar scared the dickens out of the freshmen Vet Students. B/L (laughing) Did he? 7 TF We (the fish Vet Students) had to go through the administration building to finish our college applications and, in a line and Marstellar was there at the end of the line. He had 2 questions: "Do you have your Sissons Anatomy (book), and do you have your Medical Dictionary?" And, whoa, be tide if the freshmen didn't have them. I had mine, but some didn't at the time. Dr. Marstellar and I got along well, and Dr. Schmidt too and Dr. Boughten was a character. B/L I guess you knew Dr. Boughten? TF Yes, he was probably one of the greatest characters that ever came to Texas A &M. (laughing) B/L Alvin Price, Bob at the time. TF Yes, Price, Dr. Price was in the service and he came back to take his Veterinary Degree. He had graduated in Dairy Science from Tarleton. He graduated in `49 from A &M. Yes, Price was there when I was on the staff and became dean of the Veterinary School (College). B/L Well, that's uh, well now, I'll ask you the same thing. When you were here in `46 was there anything, uh again, uh, this was right at the end of the war when everybody was getting settled. Was there anything in particular that impressed you about the military aspect? The impact of the war? TF Well, uh, I just remember the wooden barracks moved on University Drive from Victoria, TX. The army camp there closed up at the war's end. GM They had classes. B/L Will, later. TF And, of course I was busy with my family and working.... B/L You didn't have time to worry about those things? TF No, It's over with, and it was a great thing. B/L My years in high school were the war years, 41 -45. TF You were here in Consolidated? B/L Consolidated. TF You grew up here? B/L I grew up right here. 8 TF Right here in College Station. B/L But not many people were born in College Station at the time, but I was. TF Was your father a Professor? B/L He was in extension service. TF What phase of the extension? B/L He was a pasture specialist. TF Well he probably had some dealings with my father's business, or something like that. B/L Your father from? TF Amarillo. That's where the serum plant was located. The main office was in Denver, Colorado. TF Yes, I've written a book on his work and the story of the O. M. Franklin Serum Company. He made the first successful Blackleg vaccine for the Kansas Agricultural College in Manhattan, Kansas. In those days, they used live calves. They used the tissue juice from the blackened infected muscles of the dead calves. They infected them with Blackleg germs. But it worked good. But then when he got to Amarillo, he perfected the world's first black leg bacteria (a killed vaccine). That was his second big discovery. And, of course, the present one is a little more complicated. Most cattlemen in the West and Midwest were having serious problems from black leg in their herds. Some cattle men from Colorado and Texas formed a company. The original company was formed by my dad, and 3 veterinarians from the Kansas State Agricultural College in Wichita, Kansas. That's where I was born. Charles Collins of Kit Carson, Colorado, a well -known cattleman, organized the company with dad as superintendent of the laboratory in Amarillo. Of course, he was a stockholder. He ran the plant from 1918 until he retired in 1951. The plant produced various vaccines in Amarillo. B/L What was the name of the company? TF The O. M. Franklin Serum Company. It was first named the Kansas Blackleg Serum Company until 1927. Then directors changed the name to O. M. Franklin Blackleg Serum Co. in Dad's honor. Then they dropped the word Blackleg in 1937, and it became the O. M. Franklin Serum Company. They sold out in `63 to American Home Products. They own a number of biological 9 and pharmaceutical companies anyway. Today, the Franklin Company is called Franklin Laboratories and its headquarters is in Kansas City, Missouri. Although the Franklin division is being merged with the Fort Dodge laboratories as the parent company, the Franklin label will disappear. B/L That's interesting. Interesting. Uh, uh I never was on active duty here during W.W.II. I turned eighteen 2 weeks after the W.W.II draft died in 1946. So I never was drafted. I was in the Nat'l Guard and Reserves later, in `48. But I did witness, during W.W.II, here of course while I was in high school the services sent out, you may remember some of this . . . BUD The Marines and the Navy were housed in the even numbered dorms in the Duncan Hall area. B/L Marines, Navy and Army. BUD Dr. Milton Nance was director of the training programs for the regular service personel. Walter Mannings was part of the training program I think, originally of that. You might check to be sure. B/L Walter's father? BUD No, his brother. B/L Oh, his brother. BUD And then Dr. Nance was involved in it before he went on staff with, uh, what's his name, uh, Admiral Nimitz staff. But... They had a good program. I talked to Walter yesterday and he said, that each teacher, I don't know what the academics were offered, but uh, each teacher was given 40 students and he said that it was not uncommon for only 3 to be remaining at even midpoint in their training program. I remember distinctly though, talking with these veterans of Guado Canal but they were interested or they were doing what we call a wireless transmission communication I guess. I didn't get that far with Walter but the electrical engineering department must've been the key part of the program. He mentioned Dr. Hughes a in passing. B/L I'm wondering what courses soon . . . BUD That I don't know. See, my classmates were in and out. They'd take `em over to Camp Gruber to Ft. Sam to find out they didn't have this and that and they'd send `em back to A &M. Franke 10 was one of these! Harold Franke could probably tell you specifically what went on because he was in that procedure. I quit school and went on into the service. I tried to enlist into the Marines and Navy, and of course the Air Force was part of the Army at the time. But they wouldn't touch you. In `42 (the fall), the commandant got an okay to have an enlisted reserve program, here. And, I guess philosophically they thought if you enlisted you'd stay and get your degree. A &M went on a 3 semester at that time. A tri- semester you'd call it and you could get your degree in 2 years and 8 months. But I quit after my sophomore year and went on into the service and like Ted, it was March `43 before they called me to active duty. I was in Southern Italy around Caserta, and received a letter from my dad and enclosed was a second notice to appear at the draft board #13 in Dallas. And he did that for a joke. And I said, if they' 11 arrange for me to go home, I'd be glad to go. But those were sidelights, you know. TF I have a question I'd like to ask you. You were in Italy and see I had Undulant Fever (Brucellosis) and fought that "stuff" for 15 years. I would wake up at night just ringing wet. So anyhow, someone, and I can't remember who it was, was in Italy in a mountain division in WWII. They were eating cheese and drinking milk and, of course, it was raw. Goats and cattle were carriers of the disease (Brucellosis). I wondered if you had any experience with this disease. They had to put cheese and other dairy products off limits to the G.I.'s. They couldn't eat cheese or drink the milk over there. I was just wondering if you'd had any experience with this? BUD Combat units were issued stantard G.I. rations. If it was a large town, which we didn't see many of. TF You didn't have any of that disease? BUD We didn't have a problem with it. They had fines for drinking - fifty dollars. B/L Liquor? BUD Wine. BUD What else? Anything? 11 BUD Anything, Godsakes, Drugs. I told the high school youngsters that drugs were not prevalent other than morphins that they gave for extremely wounded guys to kinda make that transformation from life to death, you know? TF Were you in the Salerno then? BUD No, I started North of Rome in the Appinine Mtns. TF Oh, North. BUD Our division was with the French, which was west of Casino in June `44. TF Well, I just thought when you were in Italy if you had heard anything about Brucellosis. The same fellow was in the mountain division and said they had orders that you couldn't eat any cheese there because, because the GI's were coming down with Brucellosis. BUD It was an experience but I - GM Excuse me, excuse me if you can get that off of goats, did the owner cook it? TF Apparently not. They, had raw cheese. I'm sure you know that they can get all kinds, well you can also buy raw cheese anywhere in this country so it was raw. Yes, cooking would have taken care of it. GM As far as the goats were concerned... TF Well, the goats carried the most serious type of disease. A British arny doctor, Bruce, was the first to diagnose the disease (Undulant Fever - Brucellosis) long before World War II. Soldiers were dying from this disease and he pinned it down to goats,cattle, and hogs on the Isle of Malta (first called Malta Fever). In this country cattle were the pricipal carriers with goats and hogs the less important carriers. GM I didn't realize that. BD Well we have you know, one of the key notes I think of my freshman - sophomore year was the - We won an award, the Moore trophy ... it was an interesting experience because we had Felix Bucek which was an outstanding student athlete as Co A C.O. And we were out on the Duncan Drill field as all the infantry units which were the most in those days. And Felix kind of messed up. We were at order arms and he gave the command order arms and not "one dude moved" - I 12 mean - didn't move a muscle. And that colonel was ... boy we won by 1/2 point and I swear till today...Felix turned red after he remembered what he said. Then we made "We've Never Been Licked" in `42. TF - Yes. - Oh you were in that film. BD Oh I tell you - a infantry of course was right behind the band and uh you know . . . he liked it. Try to pick yourself out of that parade and you can't and your children can't see you in the picture. TF - I was in H in infantry, and I roomed in C -13 Hart Hall. BD - Were you? TF - But, I was in the front row at Kyle Field when Roosevelt reviewed the Corps. BD - Came in. TF - Came by, yes. GM - `36. TF - `37 It was the spring of `37. GM - Yeah, a `37. BD - I saw something the other day. TF - I was just from here a little further than Bill from him. Because I was in the front row when his car came by, and we had rifles, but they didn't have the firing pins in them. BUD - You know, that was an interesting thing after Pearl Harbor, uh which - (end of tape side one) (Start of Tape side two) BD - ...well when we got to Italy that night, `fighting boy' - I was a star TF - That came in handy, didn't it? GM - 41's and 42's. BUD - Yeah and they didn't have them when I talked to some of the guys in the division that had worked Rayburn and Portsound. They had Springfields - not MI's. 13 GM - They had Springfields. BD - And I took basic with Springfields. B/L - Realize that everyone came out there. TF - Well, the story we were told on the Springfield rifles when I came here as a freshman. They were all locked in racks on the bottom floor of Hart Hall. That's where I was as a freshman. But the sophomores said that the year before they shot out Prexies moon with them and that's why we didn't have any firing pins. Apparently, they had rifles in rooms before 1936. BD - Well, that's what old Aggies say. TF - Said they had `em in the room. TF - Well, that's the story we heard: That they shot "(Prexies) Moon" in the Christmas of `35 and then when we came there the rifles were locked up. B/L - Tell what Prexies moon is for the sake of old folks. TF - Well, it was a light up on the dome on the Old Main building. B/L -The light on top of the dome of the Old Main building. BUD -Well, they told a story one time of stopping the trains maybe that was back in the 90's. TF - Well, in `37, April Fools Day, the train stopped and I and others crawled through the windows. I remember a woman sitting there and she almost jumped out of the seat. TF - I guess it kind of reminded me of the old days when the train robbers robbed the train. Oh it was something. We Aggies crawled through the train and rode it to Bryan. B/L - Write your names on these cards here. B/L - Well, tell us about two things - the rail road tracks and uh... TF - Yes, to start out with April Fools Day, 1937, was probably the - I guess in a sense you can say the day the Fish Corps ran amuck. But we were "aired out" of course you know about airing out here. The sophomores came through the night before April 1, with their belts whipping the freshmen and they just "tore out" in the woods to keep from getting whipped anymore. Some spent the night in trees. And first one place and then another and then later on that night we went back to the dormitory. But that was the beginning of April Fools Day. The morning of 14 April Fools, then the freshman took over, and a lot of classes were just dismissed because it involved the whole corps. How many freshman there were - I don't know there must have been over a 1000. We went to the creamery first and by the time I got to the creamery, they had eaten all the dairy experiments, cheese, milk, and ice cream. The whole creamery was "eaten out!" By the time I came there, the train came in. I would probably say about 10:00 in the morning from Houston. Then we boarded the train to go to Bryan. We went to Bryan and sort of took over the city. We went to the theater free and there was "mass mayhem ". I think the next year the college authorities didn't want anymore of that. So they brought Colonel George Moore in the, so that was the last great "infamous fish day." But that afternoon of April Fools Day the Fish made up for the "airing out." The freshmen and sophomores all went out to Fish lake and had a keg of beer. We had a glorious time, threw the sophomores in the lake and as they came out we threw them back in. The freshmen got revenge on the pissheads (sophomores), and we all got gloriously drunk and came back to the campus. B/L - Well, I heard stories the train tracks being oiled. BD - I never heard of that, that's logical B/L - Well, there's a grade from the north going up to the station. If you oil those tracks the train can't get any traction. They had to stop. TF - They made a regular stop though about 10:00 - now about the oiling I don't know - In the early day I heard they got mad at Buffalo Bill's circus in Bryan - Aggies got mad and planted a cannon out there so they had to detour and go elsewhere. But, that was back then in the early days. B/L - Tell us about "We've Never Been Licked." BD - That was an exciting thing - you probably recall - yell practice on Goodwin Hall steps. Of course the enrollment At A &M, according to this, was you know, not very great. I don't know how the announcement came that we'd lose our Christmas vacation. You know then they went back after Christmas and took our exams somehow they cut it short. I'm not sure, but my roommate was a real nut. I looked through some old pictures cause he had his pictures made with Ann Gwinn and Mitchum and others. Well anyway we practiced and practiced and 15 practiced and we took pictures of the yell practice - and they then recorded the sound for the sound track. TF - Well, we had it on the steps of the Y, (YMCA building). TF - Yes, a little bit more room. BD - Then we finally had to review and everything. But it was all, they did the sound separately from the film. I don't know how they did it. But uh, they finally put it together. When we saw the finished product, I'm not sure if it was before or after I got out of service. B/L - This was the spring of 42? BD - Yes. B/L - It was in a stadium scene. BD - Oh, yeah. B/L - They gave us all a chicken dinner one day, and made us all sit in the stadium. BD - That was a nice time really, when you can reflect on those things. Of course, Bucek, when he took over Co. A, when we were sophomores, he cut out all the hazing in the unit. B/L - We're still working on that. TF - Yes. BUD - Yeah. BD - No, I mean in our unit - no and we didn't know we hadn't - the fact is when we came in we had 30 some odd freshmen which was unusual - maybe close to 40 and 6 sophomores. But, you know, when you have that hazing line, you know, at 5:00 they used to call it fish drill whatever and you'd line up where you got the practice down to dragging just enough to get at the end of the line. You know, to paddle everybody took thirty minutes. Those guys, or more the Sophomores, were armed real good and arm weary. (someone laughs). But, that was the extent while we were freshmen, had fo hazing when we were sophomores. TF - We had some hazing too as freshmen, but thank goodness I was not in G company. We were in Hart Hall during my fish year: H Company Infantry had the top two floors of C ramp. G Co. had the two lower floors of C Ramp. 16 BD - Well, that was before. TF - Oh, yes before the 12 dormatories were built (1938). I remember, G Co. Infantry called him "bloody Rod" (Chambless), as he had been in G - Company and he'd come back and he'd beat seniors about as bad as the freshmen - He later became a sheriff over there, but I don't know whatever happened to him. But they called him `Bloody Rod" and I remember watching those poor `ash" - he couldn't touch us because we were in a different outfit than G- Company. BUD - He was always that way. TF - He was always that way. BD - Interesting thing is you know, I came in I guess the 2nd year in 41. I guess those dorms were. I don't know whether our freshmen or sophomores lived in them you know, previous to our class. But almost all of the odd numbers were infantry just clear down to the number one. We were in the odd class. TF - You came in 41. BUD -Yeah. TF - Yes, I left the dorms my last year here. I lived in Bryan the fall semester (`40), and in the North Gate area the second semester (`41) BUD - Well they had their choice when I was here. TF - We were in No. 12 dorm. BD - My roommate was a basketball player in `42. TF - In dorm 12 in `39 the football boys were in the bottom 2 floors and non - military members in the top 2. BD - But, everybody wore a uniform which I thought was good. TF - Yes, we all wore uniforms including the football boys. BD - Had a uniform purple which has merit. Everybody had the same kinda haircut and everybody wore the same color shoes. TF - Well the veterinary students who were non - military were always sort of a nonreg bunch. Day dodgers we called them. 17 BD - Well, you know, when we came back from service in Feb. `46, and we had alot of veterans that .... I don't know what you would call it... re- enlisted... but they took the advanced military contract , but my roommate he lived down there with a mixture of athletes and they had an athletes veterans dorm in dorm #2, of course Coach Norton (football). I don't think he was the athletic director, was he? And right after the war he had a freshman team. Junior varsity and varsity and we played three schedules. He honored every scholarship kid that made it back from the war, which I thought was first class, maybe a couple played pro ball as I recall. GM - The whole pro thing was not as advanced back then. BD - Nah, nah. GM - Well, I can remember people coming back from the service didn't even have time sometime to get their clothes, they would attend classes in their military uniforms. Didn't have anything to wear. Took a while to get settled in. BD - Right, they were issued, I don't remember the exact number, but everybody in the Corps was issued regular army clothes. GM - Did you when you came here in `36? I can remember students having to wear wool uniforms. We had the khaki stuff back then. TF -Yes, we had both, khaki shirts and wool was for colder weather. GM - But you didn't have to wear the wool in hot weather? TF - No, I don't remember wearing any wool in the spring or fall. GM - I wasn't really sure when the khaki came in, I some how have a faint recollection of students having to wear those long sleeve wool shirts. TF - In the summer? GM - In September, you know it was the end of summer school. TF - Well, I don't ever remember... GM - They did have khaki... TF - Yes, beause, I can still see that white stripe on the right arm of my khaki's even though I was a transfer. And I would like to say that in most of my classes were upper classmen. I hated that 18 class (organic chemistry). I can remember the only time that I walked the "bull ring ". I'd come out at four o'clock on Monday afternoon, with just my collar unbuttoned and wouldn't even think about it, I would walk right through Old Main and boy, the officer of the day rammed me (4 demerits). I tried to duck the officer, but I'd inevitably forget to button my collar. So finally I got enough rams to walk the bull ring on a Saturday afternoon. TF - Doctor Humbert, I heard about him too... you'd have to have your fingernails clean and do everything neat. He was rough, but I never had him in class. GM - Were you sloppy dressed? TF - Oh, no. BD - You know it is interesting here in College Station, is that our world was going towards to Guion Hall. That was free movies for freshmen on a Sunday afternoon. Do you remember Charlie Tigner? GM - Oh yes sir. BD - Well, I didn't know that he operated Guion Hall and the machines broke it turns out, according to her. So we just thought that he had stopped the movie turn on the lights because he wanted to catch people smoking. You remember, I look back on some of that you talk about, uncouth. But, anyway they had announced that Pearl Harbor had been bombed, and of course I missed where Pearl Harbor was in my sixth grade geography class in East Tennessee. The students came back out of Guion to the dorm. It didn't happen in our unit, but they did DNC which were in mine... sent the freshman up with their campaign hats , their raincoats and the broom. They would walk sentry duty on top of the dorm and all the infantry units for fear that the Japs were going to come. GM They were really serious about it? TF - They really thought the Japs were going to come (laughs). BD - I was 19 when most of my freshman classmates were 16 and on the verge of turning 17. It's really interesting when you look back on the advantages that I had but having to take kindergarten in public schools because I didn't score well on the test. 19 TF -I'd never been so embarrassed because when I was in second grade the other kids were writing their names and the teacher had to write my name, that was really embarrassing. GM - You know I started the first grade in Penso Texas... TF - No kidding? GM - Yeah, I had to go to a special school because my mother didn't want me to be late. When my birthday came in and I can't remember the justification for all this but I remember going to a special school I got into in the second grade at the Eastwood. They later changed Eastwood, but I didn't live to far from that school at that time. I can remember playing marbles. Nobody seems to play marbles anymore. B/L - My birthday fell in May, so I was a younger member of my class. I had graduated when I was 16 because we had that eleven year system. TF - That's what alot of people don't remember. BD - That's right. GM - I want to know, was that eleven year system prevalent throughout the state? BD - Must have been. TF - Yes it was. BD - Also the certificate of attendance guys told me about later in other words if you went through the 11th grade you get a diploma, I don't know if that's true. TF - Yes, my brother was born 2 years later than I, in 1920. He graduated in `37, I believe he had eleven grades. BD - 42 somewhere... B/L - 41. BD - 41. TF - Is that when they changed it? GM - I went from the 7th to the 9th grade. 20 B/L - Oh I see, I was thinking that it was earlier than that. I thought Bryan had 12 years in their system, but I've been talked down on it 2 or 3 times. I thought it was just consolidated and some of the smaller schools that had eleven years. BD - They had eleven years in Dallas. TF - Oh yes, eleven years was by state law, then the legislature changed it for the 1938 school year. BD - So you see I had the advantage of that one year in kindergarten and 12, so I had 13 years by the time I got in A &M. Pappy Frieson was the only guy older than I was. He was 26 (laughs). GM - I grew up fishing tools for tool company. I knew him over there for quite a spell. Then we went to the third grade up in Kansas. My dad's father had a machine shop up there. And with a herculean effort, they moved this thing called a chase can. I remember this big old Dodge truck they had they loaded those big lathes on. I hauled this thing up there in this 4- cylinder Dodge truck with rubber tires. I remember in Tampa, we bought this brand new 1927 Buick. My dad came home with that thing- my mother couldn't drive it because she couldn't switch the gears. But that thing was getting old I can't remember. At any rate, I know that they had to take that thing, we needed the spare or two. They decided to move the shop, so I can remember pulling an interge out of this battery because my dad cleaned all of the plates off. Oh, yeah. Cleaned them all off and drove back and mailed him this part. They were real easy to get apart back then than they are now. I've tried it! But this worked quite well and they were real pleased and liked showing it. So there they went, they hauled all of this machine up there. So I'd gone to school several places, and that's how we got to Illinois. It was hard growing up and all, but it wasn't that bad. I was glad to get out, and we transferred down here to Blessing. B/L - Where is Blessing, Texas? GM - Blessing is down north of Palacios. This was an unattended operation. I was sick and tired of having a lot of people say "Look, this is a push button, you're going to inspect her, you build it, and then you're gonna run it." And when you had to--well actually you had to be able to repair them. You couldn't get back on them. You couldn't get enough knowledgeable electronic people out there to repair them. But it did, it ran for 16 hours unattended, and it would send a 21 little telephone signal out and all this kind of stuff. Those were real experiments. Fact is, we built most of those plants. They were all unattended plants. Biggest one we got by Fremont. [A lot of this section of the tape was inaudible.] in fact he just called me here, last year and wanted to know if I wanted to go to West Africa! They have a processing plant....I said `well I'll go if..." It was off the coast and they had a little plot of the mainland. He and I planned to go back to Texaco back in '78. We thought this was going to This is the first time I'd ever worked for Texaco. Almost had to have somebody who was there because Texaco had 7% of the uranium surplus. Of course the land had taken over thee oil industry. But they did have to have somebody run it. So Texaco with all the other nations and their 7% but they did not furnish personnel. So they said "look, you guys are gonna have to put somebody over there or you're not doing your job." So they come back and said who wants to go? course, I thought this would be fun. All our plant superintendents, I was at Houston at the time, they all wanted to go too. So the idea was that I'd go 45 days, and then another fella would go 45 days and then we'd swap out and all the other superintendents would go 30 days. And this is how we were going to cover these 42 big gas compressors, after we taught them how to run in. We thought... So we got our shots I can remember and we got our passports and I can even remember telling of Wayne and I said "now look, do you have your compass ?" And he said naw, what do I need a compass for? I said, In case we have to strike out across the desert we do not have to go, know where, which way we're going. And he says what for and I say well, you knew it was Thanksgiving and its kinda warm over there. So I said you need a compass and I said I'm going to buy a pilot's license and huh, I'm gonna steal an airplane and fly outta there and I said you can get a boat if you want to, and he doesn't even know how to get to the coast. He said you aren't kidding are you? But true, just before we got ready to catch a plane to go over there, they shot an american worker fromTexaco, so this stopped this adventure, TF Now he was an american did you say? 22 GM Yes, yeh infact my son worked for him over in the new airlines office. But he was a fairly high dignatary at that time. But this all fell through so I never did get to go overseas. I thought I would make a lot of money and since then this other fellow, he stayed at Texaco a lot longer than I did, I retired at 56 1/2 and just came up here. TF Yes, overseas is quite a bit different situation than in the United States. Thank goodness I didn't have any big problems later in East Africa or the Dominican Republic, but I was in Santo Domingo a year or two after the American invasion. GM You know what these guys told me that came down and talked to everyone. Now dont go over there with the idea, you know an with Texaco you just ah, Texaco is fairly rigid company, and they didn't believe in giving any quarters to anybody else. They were in it for the money and, and.... TF They weren't always Sunday School teachers were they? GM "No" no they weren't, and they didn't want you to do anything wrong or anything like that which I agree with. The thing about it was that guy he told me he said when you get over there, when we did things it was just normal to get done and get it done in a hurry and do it good and so this guy said when you get over there in Duran, now remember the telephone system is absolutely atrouches. He said you absolutely cannot get a line half of the time but when you do anytime that you begin to start on one you won't have it happen for at least 3 days. so this is the way these people lived and this I'd heard from different times as people came back from different parts of Libya. TF Were you here when they put in that obsticle course? Which is about where the president's house is now, in that ravine? I was trying to think before I came over here when that was done must have been at the tail end of 41 or 42 cause we had to do it every drill day. INAUDIBLE TWO CONVERSATIONS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME 23 BD And I mentioned another thing to Buck, you remember this I am sure, the Brazos County put together an annual about 1946 -47 of all veterans in Brazos County including TAMC veterans. I've got one of these. BD Have you, I saw one that St. Joeseph had at World War II commeration several years ago. BL I tried to look for it and couldn't find it. BUD That maybe the one that they had used at the commeration. BL It may be I don't know, the 49 Army Division, the National Guard, I thought was it. BUD Well, had some, A.C. Vruizant, local barber, had an annual from 1957, about airforce training in Bryan Field, I told him I would mention it to you. BL We don't know where we are going with all of this history, you need the skills of a real artist to write this up. BM Well it is real interesting because we are in a community where there is so much information. BL In fact when we go out there is a group that gets together every other Friday or so in Franklin, and eats fish, we all sit around the table, shoot the bull, but I've got key knows, that I can think of, all you have to do in sort of get it close. TF Is he still flying over there? BL Oh yea, BM I never really meant him. BL He bought all of his sons tickets on that airline. The old guy bought cause he bought this. flying alone out there, I don't want you to write any of this for Reader's Digest, but he was flying home one day and ran out of gas, he wondered in the fields, he walk to the nearest farm to 24 borrow some gas, put it back in there. But never the less he borrowed gas put it in took off and came back and had to walk. So he went to the doctor and the doctor said "Now how did you do this ", I walked to this little I sold came in and check it. He told it. Along on this line I just wondered if you had to put it in certain volumes like the A &M Military History, then things like that, you've got enough to maybe fill up several books. BL We take all of these readings you know and also go out to the library and read through the Bryan Eagles, Battalions, and things. It's strictly a big project. I understand that he had will the young lady that I meant her dad was here, her grandfather actually so you see how far back, I went looking through all my books and I couldn't find any to cover that period. BL What period was that? Back in the teens, back when my daddy Back in World War I Yea, we lost a good one, he gave me a paper about a week before he passed away, on a deal that was just written from the Texas Historical. Was he a History Professor? BL Yes, he had a fundamal amount of He and Ralph Steen wrote practically all of Texas History in the 7th grade or whatever they wrote. He had a lot of A &M history. Oh yea Heard of Bulnig? I've heard the name, I don't, worked at A &M, I have no idea, he was in here before World War II 25 When you get our age the pass is more clear than it was. Our comrade infraternitry group gets together every summer, of course, a lot of them can't travel, so of them are financially strapped we only have about 25 -27. Last summer at Conway there were 9 of the guys that were there out of 25 had gone from Concino to the of Switzerland and Venice, which is where, where Comrade is. A couple of them past away, you talk about recolition, I wish I had the recall It's so sad. So I'm trying to write up just what I know, but it is so hard to do that But ya'll have to mix up good stories with old pictures, we'll I tell you we are trying to bring this formally to a close. You finished here at the end of World War BL Will I went to as far as the military yes, but I went into A &M and graduated the class of `49. And then what did you do: BL Well strangely, the Korean conflict came up. There were three or five states that had two national guards division, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Texas, I think. Texas was one of those two. Everyone of those states had one of their division called up. They never did call up either one of the Texas , we were just waiting to be called up after the 36, 49 armory, and they never did call either one of them. So I sat there, I became the unit administered out there. And then in 54, join the A &M staff, in the business area. Started out in the Engineering Experiment Station in 54. Various area, I was in Ag. Experiment Station for a while. started out in 46, in the veterinary division they put out all together. BL I winded up at the Wayne Stark Building student center, I was Assistant Director and Business Manager. TF Do you know my daughter Judy Franklin, she's now in Houston with the IBT, she's a fund raiser, and she was a friend of Wayne Stark and was the original donut dolly. BL It was Wayne Stark back in the 60's that I wind up Business manager. 26 I worked for athletics the last couple of year, they weren't paying coaches back then, I look back reading about Homer Norton and my dad's favorite coach here, even thought he was from back up North. 27