HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 04Lannes Hope
O.D. Butler
Dick Hervey
ciwro
IQ6ug-hkJu
,IA SLO„K,K,
J
�OQeYGl.�t7✓ ��5
wr -)Mr. Dick Hervey
Mr. Lammes Hope
Mr. O.D. Butler
Mr. Butler- 1935@ a
retired@ 1987
Spanish American War -
O. D. Butler
Mr. Hervey- Trench oof
was in the Army in Fran
U.S. entering WWII -
Mr. O.D. Butler - Fort
Dining Hall Steward.
1941. (260 days in c
fa
February 19, 1997
LO lM i Oral History Military
39 - total of 62 yrs. Dr. Hope 1961 Facility Member
14 -918 World War I
ar (1)Sgt. Mr. Hervey father in law. (Army) His father in law
iouston Pearl Harbor Service year Corps Master. Duncan
;d August 4, 1941- Camp McCoy taining on November 27,
in Europe)
/n LJLI I
0
L
7
DH- I moved back to College Station on the 1st of October in 1997.' I will have been here
50 years. 1 / q?
NS- 50 years that's a long time This is a wonderful community to be in.
DH- Oh yes indeed.
Ns- Mr. Butler I know you ave been here a long time too. How long have you lived here.
OB- Well I came in `35 as a dent and was employed here when I graduated in `39. So
I've been here since `3 .
NS- How long is that, that' a long time.
OB- Well that's a long time that's 62 years, 61 years.
NS- That's a long time. Dr Hope, you taught at A &M I know, when did you move here?
LH- I came in 1961, as a fa ulty member, I've been here ever since, I retired in `87.
NS- Looking back at your milies, how many of you had members of your family as far
back as the Spanish American War. Or do you have any letters or photographs or
memorabilia from this war.
DH- About this war you're talking about.
OB- Spanish American War
NS- Spanish American War. ause) Well if not how many members of your family were in
World War I anytime etween 1914 and 1918.
DH- My father.
NS- Your father was?
DH- He got as far as Camp Willis, Texas, in W.W.I. My father -in -law Mr. Ray Scott, my
deceased wife's father served in the trenches of France in W.W.I. And he was
LH- Nobody in Spanish • ii erican or in W.W.I. I've got genealogy going back to the Civil
War. But that's pr- far back.
NS- What branch of the se ce was your father -in -law in?
DH- He was in the Army.
4 ,, NS- He was in the Army?
DH- Yes, I have a picture, f his army unit during the Mexican War in Brownsville, Texas.
NS- Oh really?
DH- I also have another picture of his outfit in Camp Bowie, Texas, Ft. Worth.
NS- In the Army, OK.
OB- Where did he go in th Army from where he was from?
DH- He came from Chandlzr, Oklahoma. He is an Oklahoman by birth and went into the
service from there.
NS- Where were you wh you heard about the United States entering W.W.II?
OB- Well I was already in e Army and I was courting my wife. Jane Gray was her name
•
promoted from a 1st se
the history he wrote wl
out to work on it. The
think it would be a vali
restore it. As far as I
in W.W.I.
NS- Dr. Hope, did you hav
rgeant to a 2nd lieutenant in France and I have a manuscript of
ile in the trenches of France in W.W.I . I have never gotten it
ink or the lead pencil is very shaded, it's hard to read. But I do
able historical document. I will pull it out and see if I can
ow he's the only member of my immediate family that served
anybody?
then. I had been here over the weekend to see her and I was on my way back to Fort
•
Sam Houston when I heard about Pearl Harbor: And I presumed that's what your
talking about when we entered W.W.II.
NS- Yes, W.W.II, Pearl Harbor.
OB- I was already in there, I had been recruited to serve a year in the Quartermaster Corps,
school for bakers and cooks because I was Dining Hall Steward in the brand new
Duncan Dining Hall. And the army was converting from individual unit messes to
consolidated messes. d we had the newest large scale dining facilities in the United
States, so we got a go d many visitors from Army people. And one of them found
out I had an Army Re erve commission and in those days there was an obligation for
reserve officers to spe d a year in the service. So he convinced me that the thing to do
was to join him at Fo
Sam Houston, the Eighth Corps area, school for bakers and
cooks so I could use n expertise in teaching soldiers about meats. So I went into the
Army on August 4 off `41 and I was there December 7 and then transferred to my
basic branch of artillery. After that I got transferred about 200 yards to the 12th Field
Artillery battalion right there in Fort Sam Houston. The outfit that we served with in
ROTC Camp. So tha's were I was.
NS- Well where did they snd you after that . Where did you go?
BO- Well we went from FOrt Sam Houston, Texas to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, to take
winter training And ive got there on, Thanksgiving day in 1942. It was snowing, the
natives said `well this snow won't last long" and it didn't. It was over about April 1st.
So then we went front there over seas to Northern Ireland for eight months and then
L
we got transferred to England to be in the invasion force. From there to France,
Germany, etc.
NS- Well you really were in the thick of it then weren't you?
OB- I was in combat 276 da
evacuated through, Par
NS- Well you saw a lot of it
OB- Sawa good bit.
NS- Where were you, Mr.
and the screen went o:
Japanese have attacke
Pearl Harbor ?" And tl
movie and we went ba
happening. So that's
NS- What did you do next,
ys until I got wounded, in March 15, 1945. And then I was
is and England and back to New York to California.
then?
ervey, when it started?
DH- I was a Senior at Texas A &M on December the 7th, 1941. We had been to the dining
hall, Duncan Dining Hall for Sunday dinner and as customary most Sundays we went
to the campus theater. There was a group of us at the campus theater watching a "A
Yank at Oxford" starring Robert Taylor. We got to see about 5 minutes of that show,
and over a PA System a person came on and said, the
Pearl Harbor. We looked at each other and said, `where is
s announcer also said the Japanese have also attacked the
Philippine Islands and lie said the movie's over, return to your dorms. They closed the
k to our dorms, turned on the radios to find out what was
here I was on that day.
lid you stay and finish school or did you...?
DH- Our class year was escalated by 2 weeks. They eliminated our spring break and a few
other holidays, part of the Christmas holidays as I remember. We graduated on May
16, 1942. There was a little over 800 of us that got commissions that day. We all went
•
in the Army, no Air Fo
previously transferred
review on May 16 and
our assignments Whe
had transferred to the
Air Force and I was as
Tampa, Florida. When
McDill Field, Florida
about 3 months, and
We were in Boise at a
heavy bombardment
processed, physicals ar.d so forth. Then they assigned me to the 2nd Air Force in
formed the groups an most of these groups went to the 8th Air Force in England.
NS- Did you go to Englan ' 9
DH- No I went out with th 399th bomb group that went to Windover, Utah.
NS- O.K.
DH- And then we were tr sferred to March Field, California. By that time my group
commander sent me t the Command and General Staff school which I went to in
January, 1944 and I 'shed that school in March of that year. Then they sent me to
Air Staff School whic was in Washington D.C. When I completed that program they
sent me to Headquart rs, Air Transport Command in Washington D.C. To make a
long story short, after that they sent me to North Africa, China, Burma, India, North
ce commissions or no Navy commissions; However I had
om the infantry into the Army Air Force. We had our final
e next day we entered the service. All of us went straight to
ever they were and in my case, I went to Ellington Field since I
Force. About 45 of us out of the Corps transferred to the
igned to Ellington Field in Houston and there we were
I got to Tampa they assigned me to the 29th bomb group at
hich was a B -17 heavy bombardment group. We were there
ere transferred to Boise, Idaho which was the 3rd Air Force.
raining group training new bomb groups. We carded about 9
oups, in other words, trained and turned out the cadre that
•
Atlantic and the Pacific Theater. I was in the Pacific Theater assigned to Hickham
Field though I had been in the Philippines and all around the Pacific I finished the war,
at Hickham Field, Honolulu, Hawaii.
NS- Dr. Hope, where were you when Pearl Harbor was bombed?
LH- I was in Denton, Texa
for obvious reasons, I was courting,( not my wife) we were in
a movie theater. They didn't break into the movie, they let us see through the movie
and I cannot tell you a name of it. I wiped that out I guess. But as soon as we came
out about 2:30 the pla e was just boiling. I had been in the service since 1940,
mobilized, activated 'th National Guard, the Texas National Guard 131st Field
Artillery from Lubbock. And we had been at Camp Bowie which was now in
Brownwood instead of Fort Worth, as it was in World War I. It was an interesting
• afternoon after that of course, the instructions were on the radio, get back to your
base. You could use whatever means available to report back to your post. But I got
stuck in a cafe in Fort
Worth waiting for a bus or a car or something to take me back
to the post. I stayed 4 that cafe or bar all night listening to the radio, hearing all sorts
of reports about what was happening. And very quickly after that they reorganized the
36th division and I w s sent to be a part of the training "cadre" at Fort Wolters
Mineral Wells, Texas. From there I went to OCS in Fort Knox, Kentucky,
commissioned and went to the California desert where the 4th Armored Division
trained there for 6 or 3 months. Back to Brownwood where I began to date the same
girl I dated when I w.s in Brownwood two year before. Stayed there long enough to
work that into a marriage and then I went from there overseas to England. Six months
in England, invasion ri t across on the Omaha beach, 1st Infantry Division, went
through the war, Franc , Belgium, Germany, Czechoslovakia, never was wounded,
got hurt once, broke a oot, had to stay out for 3 months. We ended the war at
Karlsbad, Czechoslova 'a, and I stayed over there almost 2 years, got back in time for
my second wedding aniiversary barely. And since that time I have been in various
reserve units for about 30 years before retiring.
NS- While you all were off 'th the war effort what was your family doing for a living at
home; your parents, w at did they do, Mr. Buther?
OB- My parents lived in Ornge, Texas and my father was the tax assessor collector there.
I had married in `43 an my wife went with me to Camp McCoy, WI in a little town
called Onalarka near t ere. And after we were sent overseas she returned to College
Station where she was reared and worked at the post office for the remainder of
World War II until I get home.
NS- Mr. Hervey, what about your family, what were they doing?
DH- I was born and raised Greenville, Texas. My father was a traveling salesman, and
continued to travel d g the war years as best he could with gasoline rationing and
so forth. But my mem ry of home, I had two brothers and two sisters, my older
brother was in the Air orce in Italy, my sister's husband , who was a lawyer in Dallas,
was in the Marine Cori. My younger brother was in the 1st Marine Division and was
wounded on Okinawa, and my younger sister was married to a LyBrand from
Greenville who served in the Navy. So my memory, as I returned from the service
and that represents my
But of course security
4 w had a younger brother
•
Rationing Board. S
right before Christmas bf `45, were the five stars on the flag hanging on the front door
o brothers and my two sisters' boyfriends and me.
NS- Oh my, Dr. Hope, what was your family doing for a living after the war?
LH- Well at the time my father was a locomotive engineer out of Lubbock. And his life in
the war was sort of up and down. Engine crewmen were almost drafted to go
wherever they needed them. And he was sent various times from Lubbock to Amarillo
and stayed there for a month and was sent to Albuquerque, New Mexico where he
stayed for a lot of the war. The place we lived in Lubbock was very close to the main
railroad line coming in from California. And when I came back from the California
desert to Brownwood. I came over on a troop train, passed within sight of my home.
being what it was I couldn't even tell my family I was in town. I
who finally got in the Navy the last 2 years of the war and
served all over the would in supply ship or a troop ship I had 3 sisters, 2 of them were
teenage most of the w. r. One of them went down to Fort Worth and worked on the
assembly line for B -2 bombers for about a year and a half. And she had a very
interesting time there. She took 2 or 3 months training of course. They sent some of
them like this to the yards and airplane factories. My wife went back to
Comanche, that's her home and while I was overseas, she became Chief of the County
e was knowledgeable of everyone in the county by name And
lots of people that came through there came to the rationing board for emergency
supplies and they were constrained to do all they could to help them move across the
countryside. She stayed in that for the whole war until I came back.
NS- Let's talk about ratio ' g a little bit, you said your wife was in charge of that board in
that county. What thin s were rationed?
LH- You know she was sc eduled to be here this morning and that's an interesting thing.
Because she has more information than I do. But everything was rationed; sugar,
shoes, gasoline, auto
OD- Tires
LH - meat, butter, everythi
biles, everything.
was rationed, had to have stamps. They had to keep track of
them. It was a bureauc1racy that you wouldn't believe. And there was some
shenanigans went on 'th the central office in Fort Worth, in managing any
bureaucracy has a littl bit of chicanery. And she had to fight that. Had to go court
many times to testify against people who violated their restrictions. And she managed
an office crew of abo five women and they worked day and night to do the work
that had to be done. ey could not do it in eight hours. And many times they worked
until midnight, every 'ght. I know a great many of the letters I get from her were
dated and timed 11:00, midnight, 1:00, or after. She wrote those letters after she
finished the days work the ration office county ration board. But it must of been an
interesting time for th ?m. They had, of course the five or six women who worked and
they were all local wo en. They had a little "in group" kind of thing and they had a lot
of experiences togeth r. It was an interesting time for them too. And I know very
little about actual rati ning. Of course being in the Army in 1940 I never saw or heard
of rationing stamps. that I know I heard from her. But that's about the sum of the
thing. I had a brother -in -law who spent the whole war in Hickam Field, Hawaii as an
Air Force communicati a ns specialists, and another brother -in -law who was a Marine,
but his service was mo ly just after the War.
OB- Did they activate the t i i -sixth division in 1940?
LH- Yes, November 25th. I ost of the National Guard divisions were activated in the fall
of `40. A bunch of s were in college I was broke. Didn't have much money to buy
books and pay my lent. And if you enlisted in the Guard you'd get your one year
over with, they said, after one year of the service come back and go to college.
You wouldn't be drafted for two years, like, all those other poor jerks. Of course
we didn't come ba k for five years. But in September of 1941 before Pearl Harbor
we were getting re idy to come home, our year was just about over with. In
September Congres met in Washington and voted to extend the date of active
duty for the length
of the emergency that motion passed by one vote and that was
a woman, the last vote was a woman from Montana, I don't know her name, but
her name was legeid to a bunch of guys. We got to go back home for a little
while. We got to gp back home for a month before we would of have been drafted
again. But I was `th an artillery regiment. And when they had the reorganization
they took one batt lion and sent it to the Pacific. That battalion that went to the
Pacific was on the gh seas on December 7, they were diverted to Java and they
spent the whole War in a Japanese prison, about sixty percent of them survived.
LH- They were from the to`:'ns, little towns north of Mineral Wells, called, oh...
OB - Palo Pinto?
•
LH- No, that's east. North, is a very small town, Jacksboro. They had a doctor and an
Artillery battery in that town. And they all went and all were captured along with
another battery out of bilene, and another battery out of Wichita Falls. And there in
those towns it was glo my, gloomy place to be. You know in those days you'd
hitchhike all around th country side. And to go back to Lubbock you'd hitchhike
most of the time. OD vve were Dressed in cotton twill , lace boots, and britches, and
brim hats, campaign hits. And you'd get out in them and you'd get a ride real easy.
But still in 1940, soldi
rs were not popular in the country side, they were the scum of
the earth. When I courted my wife, we were in Comanche. We went to church on
Sunday. We listened t a sermon about the evils of the USO. (It's sort of significant
that after War was de lared we became very popular.) And that preacher preached
that sermon with me s tting in uniform in the front row. Needless to say, when we got
married we did not as him to marry us.
NS- What do you remember about sending and receiving letters during the War and about
censorship of letters d telegrams'
DH- I don't remember mu h about any telegraphic or telephone communications between
my home and myself. ut I remember the APO Box Office and the free franking
privileges, we didn't have to buy stamps, we just wrote free on the envelope. I
assumed that there vdas censorship taking place when I was overseas in sensitive parts
of the country, but I never had any personal knowledge that my letters were being
censored.
NS- Dr. Butler, do you remember anything about letters?
•
OB- Well, similar experience, the mail delivery was sporadic. Depending on what the
situation was you mi
of a month. Like the B
that was over. I didn't
t get six letters at one time that had been written over a period
a ttle of the Bulge, that time you got no mail delivery until all
know anything about censorship I presumed that my letters
were censored, but I never knew anything about it.
LH -You had to censor your men's letters, did you not?
OB- We did have our intelli ence officer for field artillery battalion did a have a crew that he
trained that worked th the soldiers on what they could or could not say. I don't
know that they read t e letters that were produced, but they did supervise what was
said.
LH- It was a little bit differ t we had to supervise, we had to read the letters, scan them,
you couldn't read all f the letters, but we scanned them and certainly randomly
checked, it's true. Ant the six weeks before the invasion we didn't send any mail out;
we got mail in, but no
they called V -Mail, w
of paper and they pho
mail out for that six weeks. And they had a little device which
r ich I remember very well. You put your letter on a single sheet
ographed it, sent it on film, and regenerated it in the States.
You got pretty fast turn around on that kind of mail. In two years that I was overseas I
wrote about five- hundred letters home. Peggy wrote me more than that, maybe six or
seven - hundred. And I always sent her letters back in my mail, so we ended up with all
the letters back and forth.
OB - That's wonderful. I don't ever remember corresponding that much.
LH- She wrote me a letter a ost every day. And I didn't get one everyday, I didn't send
one everyday, but once in Belgium I sent her a little Belgian flag in the letter, that
probably was in viola4n, but she knew where I was and she knew what unit I was in
and every once in a while there was some news report on X unit or Y unit in
somewhere. So she knew approximately where I was, could trace my path across
Europe there. I think t
met her brother; well I
hurt for three months
e girls in the offices in which she worked, they had a great big
map on the wall where their husbands or boyfriends pins were and they move them
around as far as they knew where they were. Some of them were in North Africa and
some of them were in Iurope. I had a unique experience with her family. I had never
might of met him passing me. He was going out the door and I
was coming in the door one time. But he was a pharmacist and as soon as he
graduated from UT they put him in the Army Medical Corps at Camp Barkley and
gave him commission d he went overseas within six months after he was inducted in
the Army. And walkin up the gangplank in New York he met a nurse from
Wisconsin. By the time they got to England, in 1942, they were engaged, got married
there in 1943. I didn't et to England until 1943. So they'd been there a year, but he
didn't have any service time at all because he been sent, directly over to a station
hospital , after I got th re in the Bristol area, I got to visit them, a couple of times after
they married. Then of ourse we moved into Germany and about Christmas time I was
d went back to the hospital. I got to see them again. At that
time they had a station hospital near Chartres, France, which I passed earlier, going
across to France in a tank . So I hitchhiked back over there and spent some time with
•
them. When the War was over, because he hadn't been in the service much less been
overseas very long, he didn't have the points to come home. But he got an emergency
leave to come home because she went home pregnant, and was having extreme
problems with the pre
NS- What do you remember
ancy with the only child they ever had. So he went home on
emergency. He got hoiae before I did. Interesting, kind of
about newspapers and about news reels at the movies, about
radio programs, telephone calls, transportation during the War.
LH- Transportation was most interesting. They had a sort of informal travel network; which
1
car was going where, ort of like the Aggie set -up. I wondered if they didn't learn it in
the war. But you advertised when you had a car going to Lubbock from Brownwood
or you had a car goin to El Paso from wherever. And you'd be filled up. One guy
bought a new Pontiac, I can remember. And he carried six guys, seven guys in that
new Pontiac back to Lubbock every weekend. Paid for his new car that way. There
were locations in Brownwood where, if you wanted to go somewhere, you'd go down
there and sit just like it was a bus station. Of course buses were running too. But you
could sit and you'd c ch a ride. Sometimes you'd pay them for expense, sometimes
you wouldn't pay for ything. If you're going where a driver was going, you could
go. Used a lot of tele ams. I remember my wife and I telegraphed each other
arranging meetings, arranging dates, and stuff of that nature many times. Of course we
had a slight advantag , the telegraph station in the small town where she lived was in
the front of the drug .ore, that her father owned. So she got telegrams like that, and
could send them frequently. We sent birthday and holiday greetings by wire from
•
•
England on Easter and birthdays we would wire something , send money back, we
could choose presents, but have them delivered over here. But the news reel that's
another thing, The "P4the" news that came on for fifteen minutes before almost every
movie you saw. I've
en some of those lately, but I don't know whether you all have
or not ,some are rebroadcast on television, and some of those other ones, you know
they're pretty element ry. I don't think they quite told it like it was. Well there was
one similarity. The be ' g of those news reels often showed a flock of airplanes
going overhead in formation. Well, I happened to be at the place where that happened
in real life. The break
nine abreast, three fli
of them to pass over i
i t of St. Lo, were you there for that? The Air Force came over
is in column of squadrons. It took an hour and half; for 3,200
The ground literally shook from the vibrations. First came the
B -17s, next the B -24s. B -25 s, B -26s, then the A -20s, and finally a bunch of pursuit
planes, all in one spot out in front of us. "Short Falls" killed sixty troops and one three
star general.
NS- Where is St. Lo?
LH- In France.
DH- Not far from the beac es.
OB- Fifteen miles from 0 a Beach.
DH- I remember this about {transportation; every bus station, every railroad station in this
country was loaded with people. You could not find a place to sit down and what few
trains I rode weren't military troop trains they were loaded with people and they didn't
have facilities enough on most of those trains to feed the people so they had
•
sandwiches and food pre -made, but I had the unfortunate assignment of a being a
troop commander on two train troops. One from Boise, Idaho to Orlando, Florida and
that was a combination where I was in to charge of about three - hundred troops. The
rest on the big train were civilians. I had all kinds of problems keeping those soldiers
and civilians apart. But then I was in charge of moving three troop trains from
Windover, Utah to Ma ch Field, California. Those trains were one - hundred percent
military where we had ur own feeding system, own stoves, and prepared our own
food. That was quite experience moving those troops by train. But I don't recall air
transportation. In my day there was no commercial carriers that I knew anything about
during the War. It was
and DC -3 which was a
said was one of the me
was difficult in those c
pooled situations. Nei
get copies of Army Ti
edition of the news ma
would just get like Ti
all military air transport and we moved by B -17, B -24, C -54,
common carrier two engine Douglas plane that Eisenhower
st important military vehicles of World War H. Transportation
ays. There wasn't a lot of car transportation except those
� spapers, Army Times was published even overseas. We would
n es. I still take in Stan Mauldin. Kilroy was here. The overseas
azines came in much smaller than the regular issues so we
Magazine abbreviated and smaller size. Our most interesting
thing about that is that in about February of `45 things were easing up some and there
was a story in Time magazine that General Electric had begun making some of its
regular products again, like irons. And by that time we were authorized to send some
soldiers on leave to Paris or somewhere and of course our clothes were mighty
wrinkled carrying then around in duffel bags. So just on a jest I told one of the
•
soldiers, highly educat d guy in my fine direction, said I said write a letter to General
Electric to send us an ' on. Which he did and they did (said in a surprised voice). They
sent us an iron (lau g). Which served a battalion to iron clothes for people going on
leave to Paris or somewhere like that. So Army Times was our major source of
information while overseas.
NS- What about telephones` I know today we just pick up the phone and call anywhere.
Did people use those? Did you use `em overseas at all?
OB- We used of course tele , hones for communication in our units, not public phones, there
wasn't any such thing. But that was the secure certain method of communication in
artillery battalion, so e laid many miles of rather heavy wire and picked up ours and
somebody else's too. we were running short of wire as we invaded France. Along
the roads there'd be a many as twenty different telephone wires for different units
lying along the roadsis e. Then one of the Lannes Hope tanks would go across there
and break all of it. We had that was the secure method of communication within the
artillery units. The art' ery units typically served the infantry division as the most
certain means of communication. So frequently we would convey messages from the
Commanding General
The radios were fairly
military radios won't
to an infantry unit through artillery communications channels.
uncertain in those days. They were bulky large radios and my
favorite expression when we went into France, I was communications officer to the
battalion. My favorite expression was I cannot understand why these expensive
ork when every taxicab in Chicago has a radio that works all
the time. The military radios of those days were fairly complex and fairly uncertain.
•
Course had little walki talkies that would work two or three miles. Then we had
larger radios that woul work for twenty miles and then you had bulky radios that
took a whole vehicle t accommodate them that would work fifty or a hundred miles
when they worked.
LH- I don't remember using telephones to call back to my parents or back to my wife.
Seems to me I used telegraphs almost all the time. Even thirty miles from Brownwood
to Comanche I sent a wire instead of using a telephone.
NS- Let's come back to they &M campus for a little bit and talk about that. Explain about
Guion Hall or any orientations regarding World War II. Do you remember that?
OD- Lames and I were already in the Army.
NS- You were a senior here?
DH- Yes I was senior here. Well, we had a drastic change of our motis operandia after the
War came on. We wer instructed to get up at six in the morning and go to the
calisthenics areas and ake calisthenics for about thirty minutes and we were operating
under different rules aid regulations after the War came on. It was most serious
business and we had more strict military training We were more business like. We
were advised that a Wir was going on and the training was better. I was here from the
time Pearl Harbor hap
ened till May sixteenth. So it was all stepped up and
accelerated that I don'tt remember too much about the session in Guion Hall. It was
more in drill days and OTC classes, but we had stepped up civilian pilot training
program going on and at Easterwood airport. In those days Guy Smith, who has just
recently died, was Easterwood airport manager for many years was one of the top
pilot trainers out at Ea erwood. He had a lot of young men learn to fly at Easterwood
Field. And also in the : ll of `41 or Spring of `42 the Navy sent a bunch of young men
in here. They ate at Sb'sa Hall and they were billeted over around Walton Hall or
somewhere in that part of the campus. And they were giving these sailors some kind of
training here. A Granite Ryan was here with that bunch of ASTP training program and
that was interesting sideline to events around the campus at that time.
NS- You remember anythin about Bryan Field, Bryan Base?
OD- Bryan Field was not cr ated when I left here in May of `42. It came sometime later,
sometime during the ar, but not in `42. I know when it was reactivated in 1950 and
they brought about eight- hundred families into Bryan/College Station and assigned
those people to Bryan Air Force Base, but I do remember a friend of mine, Hershal
Burgess, who was on t e committee to help select the location of Bryan Field. He
talked to me about tha many times. You know we had those smaller air training bases
pop up all over Texas. The housing area just North of the campus. Duplexes and small
houses were built as the Bryan Air Field was activated. Somehow Texas A &M
University fell heir to t
possession of the base.
Campus and still own 1
lose as Bryan Air Field was deactivated and Texas A &M got
A &M also got possession of all these houses up north of
at area.
DH- Those houses were mo +ed by the FHA. But anyway they were all insured by the
government when Bryn Field closed in the mid fifties. In 1957 we had a terrible
surplus of housing and the people that developed the area let it go back to the FHA.
They were sold to a non -profit corporation that operated those houses for a number of
War II training was c
establishments in the
years. Recently the noik -profit corporation turned all that property back to A &M.
Now they've demolished a number of them and sooner or later will provide parking
areas and maybe extend the campus to that area.
LH- The rumor that I heard was that John Glenn, the astronaut, spent one tour of duty
living in those houses.
OB- I didn't know that. I jut noticed in the paper where he's thinking about retiring and
he's going to have a p ess conference today.
NS- You remember an about the involvement of Coulter Field? Was Coulter Field
near there?
DH- Yes Coulter Field was here. I don't know if it had any significance as far as World
cerned.
OD- I have an interesting st1ry about the meat supply. In this area after Bryan Air Force
was established there Was no slaughter establishments that would meet the standards
of the armed forces except A &M meats laboratory. All the other slaughter
ea failed to meet the sanitation requirements and they were all
closed down. The me t for the campus of A &M and for the local stores was primarily
provided by the Texas A &M Meats Laboratory. In two and a half years at that facility
processed twenty thousand hogs and fourteen thousand cattle. They had a crew often
people that ran that Meats Laboratory and so it operated commercially.
DH- What year was that, OD?
OD- Well, it was `44 `45. Roy Snyder was in charge of it. Most everybody in Animal
Science Department v'as in a military outfit somewhere with Roy Snyder the
Extension meat specialist operated that and when I came back on board in late `45 I
was there in the Meats
and a half years which
Laboratory and Roy had managed to save $125,000 in that two
Dean E.J. Kyle used to buy the A &M Plantation. That's where
the money came from to pay for A &M Plantation. It was interesting that (End of tape)
LH- I was in that program 4 Texas Tech. Signed up for Physics 212 Career Flight and that
was a classroom experience, and you went ten miles North to the Air Base to get your
flying lessons.
DH- That was the ground school.
LH- Ground school , and what this did , this shortened your pilot training career by one
whole lap. See, you got your primary in while your still in school. That's when I ran
out of money because 1 couldn't find the money for the bus fare. I said enough of this.
I got out and joined the National Guard.
NS- Most of you were gone by `42, weren't you? You were gone by May `42. Were you
here when they filmed We've Never Been Licked?
DH- They filmed that the Fall after I left. So I had no first hand knowledge of that filming at
all. Buck Wierus was here, my friend and classmate. He stayed over to get his degree
and he was very much involved with the making of the movie. He's here today to tell
you about the making f the movie.
NS- Explain in the Military Rations, Mail Call, and receiving boxes from home, and local
newspapers, and what
e of entertainment you had.
LH- C- Rations. We had C- Rations, K- Rations, Ten in one. We had three different kinds of
rations. K- Rations were little packaged one meal propositioned dehydrated didn't
require refrigeration. CI-Rations were canned, expanded, it was a meat component, a
bread component, but ne of the innovations in World War II was a big improvement
over both of those cause, Ten in one rations, and they did require refrigeration and
were much better food although they did have canned bacon in em. They had the
ingredients to make ho cakes and the most satisfying food I ever had in all my life was
hot cakes, syrup, and t at good bacon. Even though you were in the woods over in
France, somewhere yo got that for food . Why it was really something special.
OB- Which one had the cho4olate bar in it?
LH- K- Rations. The ten in oie came from the name, came from the fact that it's supposed
to represent meals for five men for two days. That's ten in one. One package in other
words, ten man day rations in one package. Ten in one , that's where they got the
name. The K- Rations Were paste, so they would stand rain, and everything
DH- In a box about like that
LH- About the size of a Kle nex box. C- Rations were two ordinary tin cans. One ration, one
for meat, one for bread.
DH- They weren't very app : 'zing. Ten in one was a big improvement over K- Rations or C-
Rations.
LH- Interesting the ten in on • fit so well for us because there were five men in a tank crew
and that's our two day rations right there. We didn't have to share with anybody else.
LH- Yeah, had a little gaso ' e heater and still find those in old sports stores. That is as far
as I know, they started using that in World War H and then they spread out to all the
sports stores. Got thos cast iron heaters.
LH- Coleman lanterns, all kinds of things.
DH- Let me tell you a sharp story I remember about C- Rations K- Rations. Maybe I had
two classmates here, s Byron and Byron Higgins. You may have taught one or
both of them. They we e from around Lampasas, Texas and they were you couldn't
tell them apart, Byron d Byron. I was in Calcutta, India in the Great Eastern Hotel
one afternoon late and ran into one of those Higgins twins. And he just came in from
Missiona Burma and I said, where in world have you been anyway. And he said well,
in the first place we 1 ded in Calcutta Bay and I had a pack of mules and hit a mine
and sank this ship with these mules on so I landed in Calcutta swimming with a pack
of mules. But anyway a said he had just gotten back from Burma. he was with
Maryl's Marauders. Maryl's Marauders had marched out of China, I guess into
Missiona Burma. Then they kind of got away from the Japs in Missiona and he'd come
down to Calcutta for a rest and relaxation period. And he said, if it hadn't been for
these K- Rations I'd n ver made it. God, those K- Rations were wonderful. So he was
a good testimonial for K- Rations.
NS- What about boxes from home. Gifts from home, local newspapers you would get, and
entertainment in the service?
DH ?- I had a lot of entertai
tours through mostly Iiggins Field, not so much as you got other way, but Byron
Skelton, Ida Lupina, Margaret Chapman, and I never did see Bob Hope, but I guess he
was around in those d. ys. But the entertainment industry in World War II were very
supportive. Bands. Th Bands moved around quite a bit. The Quartets the singers, the
ent in my area. Hollywood people USO. They would send
Division commander
entertainment field in eneral were very supportive of the military. I don't remember
very much about boxe . If I got any boxes I got birthday presents eventually, but I
don't ever remember tting cakes or food or anything like that. Not that it just. I just
didn't get it.
LH- We didn't get newspap rs either.
OD- I don't remember much about them. There were radios usually everywhere. Most
everyone had a little radio and we could kind keep up with the Couting Barn, and
Edward R. Morrow, aad Paul Winchell, and you know those people popular in those
days. We were pretty well informed I thought.
LH- Boxes were specified. There were certain dimensions limit of five pounds, and I got a
number of them. I always told my wife send me popcorn and sardines. And I got a
good many of those overseas and that was a special treat. We'd get popcorn and
sardines. I don't know why it was the taste of sardines, that I'd missed.
OD- Boxes were about the dimensions of this and a limit of five pounds
NC- We've talked a lot abou4t what you did during the War. What about famous Generals
you encountered? Did you encounter any famous Generals?
LH ?- Lower level soldiers di 't see very many Generals. When I came up the beach in
Omaha, on the clif R bert Boyle cliff, I came up in my tank, had 5 tanks coming
behind me and there was this sole support way the beach had been, still had artillery
fallen on it, but it was Blear. But in the field just to my right as I passed by, there were
three Generals on ther , I don't know who they were to this day, but it must have been
d Corp commander, First Division and Fifth Corp, and they
Nar
were in this deal and ey had maps spread out all over the place. And half dozen staff
people out there. And onest to goodness that's about the only time I ever saw a
General in the whole ar.
OH Well I had contacts wi a good many, the 2nd Infantry Division from W.W.I and
W.W.II was stationed fit Fort Sam Houston, TX and was kind of a parade outfit. They
ain dignitaries and vast drill field at Fort Sam Houston, TX.
used them a lot to ent
Large enough to have i review of an entire division which was 15,000 soldiers.
LH And they, that division had not trained a whole lot, and were not in really good combat
shape. They moved in a medal of honor winner from W.W.I by the name of George P.
Hays as a commander f the division artillery and he was a really fine soldier, trainer,
won the respect of eve body and shaped up the outfit in really good shape and took it
into France. Then they pulled him out and, made him commander of the 10th
Mountain Division than went to Italy, so he was a fine General. We had General
Robertson, who as a ajor General commanded the division and was quite an able
general. We were in erent armies at different times when we went into France.
Who was the general o the sixth, was commanding his army, then would then...
OD Ground forces?
DH Yeah.
OD From Bradley, Omar B adley
DH Bradley, Omar Bradle who had a reputation of being a soldier gentleman, died right
recently, 90 something years old.
OD Yeah, 94,95 years old, Omar Bradley
LH He was a really fine general. Of course Eisenhower we didn't see, but, everybody
respected him But th
we were in Pattons army after St. Lo. You know Patton took
over and went all the v1ay clear to Brest and made the vast sweep, that was so
significant and, Patton Jwas a flamboyant, aggressive type of general and then we had
the famous slapping incident on somebody that was in the hospital. So he wasn't
trusted near as much as Bradley. So I expect from a soldier's standpoint other than
Eisenhower that Omar Bradley was the most respected general in the United States
Army. If Patton was appreciated for his aggressiveness and what he did, but he was
not loved anything like
solder's general.
LH We had the same genes
Hubner. Never saw by
the W.W.I trenches at
Omar Bradley was. Omar Bradley was considered to be the
al all the way through with the 1st division. Guy named
n They were sorry but as we went across France, we crossed
3oissons a famous battlefield in W.W.I. And They told us that
Hubner was in command of that infantry battalion, that we were with in W.W.II.
OH Yeah
ODDivision command r?
DH Yeah.
DH That is George P. Hay , who was like that he was a Medal of Honor winner in W.W.I.
OD Trenches were, I don't know whether they crossed those or not? Do you?
DH No
OD W.W.I trenches?
L
DH No
OD Still they eroded, flatt
have seen on the history channel, some I think are probably new footage from the
archives show some of those trenches. All I can say is, I'm glad I wasn't in W.W.I.
DH- My generals that I worked with and knew the best, and respected the most were
captains and majors.
officer was Robert F. Travis, 1928 class West Point. Fine looking man, fine officer,
commanded a wing in �he 8th Air Force Europe. He came out of there flying a B -29
to Korea, he crashed o take off at then Fairfield Susan Airbase in California and was
killed. They changed t e name of the base from Fairfield Susan to Travis Air Force
Base. Then there was Pete Van Devander, a young Captain, West Point graduate class
of `37. Commanded a t
a Mo Preston `38 class
C.R. Smith was my bo
ed out of course they'll be there forever. Recent pictures I
en I was in Boise, Idaho at Gowen Field our commanding
omb group in Europe and became a major general. There was
at West Point, commanded the 379th Bomb Group in England.
s. He was a deputy commander of the Air Transport
Command. Chief of staff of American Airlines before the war and President of
American Airlines afte the war. As we talk about generals I want to pay my respects
to A &M generals. Geo ge F. Moore, Commandant of A &M class of 1908, fine man,
was captured on Corri.i dor. Stanley Malloy, who became a four star general I believe,
very active in the Kore,: i war and to some extent the Vietnam War. Colonel H.L.
Boatner, I guess made s s fame during the Korean War when he had to go take over
the prison camps of the Koreans.
OD Where?
L
DH Korea.
OD Yeah.
DH- But General Moore waS commandant, Colonel Moore then, when OD and I were at
A &M, and left I believe about `41, to go to the Philippines.
OD- And he had the Master Sergeant named King.
OD- A really short guy.
OD- You bet.
DH- And others went with him, many others went with him. Tom Dooley from McKinney
OD- Oh yeah.
DH- Any many others.
Well, we've had some fine generals from A &M, many, many, no need to go into argue
about that, but we had y generals from A &M.
LH- Big men, the captains d majors from A &M who became good generals, reminds me
of a talk I heard at Tech. I was in ROTC at Tech that freshman year I had out there. In
the Spring of that year when France was being overrun, they assembled all seven -
hundred of the cadets " a meeting somewhere and the general came in and talked to
us. And we weren't m ar at the time and so this had a big impact on me. He made
this talk. He said, first f all, if Germany runs the British out of France, which was
almost a foregone conclusion in April and May of `41 , we'll be in the War. Never
forget this. He said as f r as your mission here, he said, you are not training to be
second lieutenants. In t i e War you will be field grade and you got to know what a
field grade officer does. And that's stuck with me a long time.
L
You bet that's good advice.
NC- We got about ten or een minutes. Time has really passed in a hurry? I'd like to have
you a little bit about y ur adjustments when you came out of the service. You want to
start?
LH- First adjustment I had was keep from cussing every other word.
All- (laughter)
LH- That was a big adjustm4nt. I came home and went into business with my father - in-
law, for about a year. That was not an adjustment, especially when you also have to
live in the same house with your father - in- law because there were no houses...
NC- Yeah.
LH- ...to live in. Fine man. I espected him. Everyway in the world he was great, but that
was not the thing to do Housing was short. I didn't have a car, a couple of months
after I got back, we de ided to buy a car in the black market. By now my wife was not
working for the ration oard any more, rationing was still in effect. We decided we
deserved a car, we wer going to buy that car on the black market. She felt all sorts of
qualms and feelings , b t I'm breaking the law I've been forced to uphold for two and
one -half years now. W nt to Stephenville, bought a four door 1942 model had five
thousand miles on it, mint condition, twelve hundred dollars.
OD- Cash?
LH- More, $1200 more.
OD- Yeah.
LH- That's the incidence I iemember most of all, there, I quickly move in the use of the GI
Bill, and with the GI B which was supposed to pay four years of college, if you
needed it. I worked it ut where, I got six years college, almost a Ph.D. I think If I
were to double up on courses and because they gave me credit for History and P.E.,
and Political Science because I've been in the service, in the War. For those years,
they gave very little credit. I used every bit of my GI Bill, in getting a degree , and
that was my adjustment. I had no problem there. But in terms of personal
psychological adjustment, I didn't see any problem. I didn't see anyone with a
problem. Back then I'n sure there were some.
DH- You were trying to be a Psychologist?
LH- At that time I didn't kn w it but I was.
OD- Well, I was on leave fro Texas A &M for the five years I was in the Army. I came
back and reassumed my position as dining hall steward of Duncan Dining Hall. But at
the time, the Animal Science Department was very short of faculty members and my
hours were such that I
they recruited me to teach Animal Science laboratory during that period, which I did.
And that caused me to increase my interest and , did the Animal Science Department
provided an assistantship the GI Bill provided some money and, so I went full time in
animal science to get a 1
staff of Animal Science,
general education board
State University for a P1
rejoined Animal Science
as off for four hours in the afternoons from one to five, and
Master's Degree which I completed in 1947. Stayed on the
then took advantage of the GI Bill again in `51 along with a
Rockefeller Foundation on Scholarship to, go to Michigan
.D. Was on leave again from the University, came back,
Department, and became head of that department three years
later. I served for twe]
getting credit for fifty
NC- What about housing w
OD- My wife had a house where her mother and sister lived on Fidelity Street, Herschel
Burgess and Dau Russell, Westgate addition, and we converted the garage into an
apartment and lived th
Michigan State in `53 we built the home we live in now. We did convert the garage of
the house my wife owns into an apartment, and we lived there for three or four years
till we went to Michigan State.
NS- Mr. Hervey?
DH- I was stationed at Hic am Field when the War was over. I was there when they
dropped the atomic bomb; and I had a second cousin who was a full colonel in the Air
Force, came by my offi e one day, his name is Bill Hooten. He was a chief pilot for
America Airlines. He s d, I am flying B -24 from Hickham Field to Dallas. If you can
get orders for separatio you can go with me ". And I said I will see you this afternoon.
And I made arrangement to get my orders to go. We flew that B -24 to San Francisco.
We landed at San Franc'sco and we had to refuel and at that time, you'll remember, it
was about a week befor Christmas, December of `45 and the west coast was full of
soldiers. They were t g to catch buses or trains or whatever and they couldn't get
out of California becaus they had no transportation. Bill Hooten invited two or three
more people in the Air orce to fly, going to Dallas, to fly with us on that B -24. After
an hour delay, we flew t Dallas. My girlfriend was living in Dallas and Bill's wife
ty -two years. Then a higher administration job, retired, after
ears of service at Texas A &M.
en you came back? Did you have a house?
re until we went to Michigan State. When we came back from
Now
L
was living in Pittsburgh, Texas. I said how are you going to get to Pittsburgh? He
said, "I'm going to cat
called my girlfriend to
and I said, "I'm driving
Pittsburgh, Texas. (Tai
OB- Wonderfully well.
DH- I commanded the local
I was commanding that
superior officer down
lieutenants, and capta:
the look on their faces
ready, you are going to
LH- I had one major delayed
down at Fort Sam Hour
h a bus ", and I said, "no your not ". I got on the phone and
neet us at the bus station and she came down the bus station
you to Pittsburgh, Texas ". We drove him that night to
e Ends) Then my girlfriend and I went to Greenville, Texas.
Air Reserves Squadron for about four years- 1948 -1951. And,
Air Reserves Group when we had the Korean Conflict My
San Antonio told me to tell all the second lieutenants, first
that they were going to be recalled. And you could imagine
hen I told them. I said, `you lieutenants and captains get
be recalled.
adjustment which I just thought of . When they separated me
on the doctors of course looked at me to be sure I was okay.
And he walked down the hall about thirty feet and said, can you hear me talk? I said
yeah. But he indicated on there that I had loss of hearing in one ear. I didn't think
anything about that and went on back out to Texas Tech and took a degree in music
Education. Taught scho 1 in Junior High School for a couple of years. Then it was
determined that I had a evere hearing loss, enough to get me out of that profession,
so I had to go on back tp grad school. And of course I can tell you I had several
extremely severe explos ons. That's in addition to being inside a tank with a lot of
minor explosions, but t at's what did it for and that is why I am wearing hearing aids.
L
L
I did have to put these
business because of th
purple heart because o
OB- I got artillery hearing
LH- But you don't wear hearing aids yet.
OB- No, but I ought to. My wife says I can hear what I want to, but she says.
LH - Well, all I got to say i the young people who listen to all these hard rock bands those
going to be a lot of co
on till about fifteen years ago. But I got out of the music
t. A latter adjustment because of war. They did not give me a
Fthat.
oss, nerve damage too.
any for us.
DH- I had a young lady ask ine one day, she said, I'm going to ask you a question How
come all men your age lave hearing problems? I said we were all in World War II and
there was nothing what oever done to cut down the noise. We had to endure. My
hearing problems came from flying in those four engine bombers, There was absolutely
nothing to absorb the s ?und of the noise. You had the same problem with tanks and
OD had the same probl ;m. So we're all hard of hearing.
NC- Well, is there anything e se you would like to add?
LH- Well, you have been a v ry good interrogator.
NC- Oh yeah, have done, its een a real treat to meet all of you again.
OB- Well, will you manage ver when we get to together and make corrections.
NC- No they'll do it here, gir s here will do that.
(Everybody thanks each othe for coming and they thank the young lady for taking notes)
9marks:
Memory Lane: Military
Interview No.
Name Dick Hervey Interview date 2/19/97
Interviewer Naomi Shannon Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2 /19/97 # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
4
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bin lery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
(name)
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
emarks:
Memory Lane:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Military
O .D. Butler Interview Ni
Name Interview date No.
Interviewer Naomi Shannon Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2 / 9 / 3 / # of tapes marked
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
(name)
Copy editing and second audit check by Pages
(name)
Final copies: Typed by
Pages
Proofread by: 1) Pages
2 ) Pages
Photos out for reproduction: Where to:
Original photos returned to:
Date
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
Pages Date
Date:
Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Date
Date 1 10- 1 1 -
Date
Date
?marks:
Copy editing and second audit check by
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: Military
First audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
Oral History Stage Sheet
Name Interview No.
Lanner Hope Interview date 2/19/97
Interviewer Naomi Shannon Interview length
Interview Place CS Conference Center
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office 2/1 9/ 97 # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes
Date Signed Restrictions- No
estrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by
Pages Date
(name)
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2 Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
(name)
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date I Li