HomeMy WebLinkAboutEastgate Panel 2Eastgate Oral History
Group 2
Pat Holland
Patricia Huebner
George Huebner
Mary Jane Hirsch
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
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sign of Interviewer
Place Interview
List of photos. documents. mans. etc.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
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(Pleas print)
ature o Interviewee
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Tel phone
Date of Birth
Place of Birth Aid 6-Xf
In iewer ease Print)
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
In progress
Date
In
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
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Signat -re of Interviewee
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List of photos, documents, mans. etc.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
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INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
In progress
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
- PATRIr.,fj T H NE
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Date of Birth 9 - ,Z - 19.1, I
Place of Birth
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Place
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
U -- -4/1 ature (of Interview
Of Interview
List of photos, documents, mans, etc.
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
In progress
The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and
preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape
recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the
archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and
Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may
be determined.
I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews
with
(Name of Interviewee)
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The City of College Station, Texas
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
INTERVIEW AGREEMENT
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8.
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11.
12.
In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights,
title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of ollege Station Historic
Preservation Committee and Confe , • '#Ce s isory Committee.
Interv' wer ( ignature)
Date 7,/ 7/
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Interviewer (Please Print)
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. ,,
/ /a`/ i %!S`c�I
InterieFee (Please print)
SignatufFe of Interviewee
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
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Place -f Interview
Interview r
D ate
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Name
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Address
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Telephone
Date of Birth /-
Place of Birth ...0`,L7.0:5 //a
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INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
In progress
List ofyhotos, documen . mans, etc. & 4' /7." /- . �urvmk 11-e„44, -''
Ali o_ oar Gr/a / � r �9 � l ,'.'e r/ � �.� / tr , �� � .
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Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Remarks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: Ea 51- G at e
Interview No.
Name Pa+ (-toil moot Interview date 91/2
Interviewer Lea Fe r - r i s Interview length
Interview Place Teen 0rrk4 /Zm. Z
Special sources of information
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Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
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Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
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(name)
(name)
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Remarks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: E c4 *+- Cm* e,
Oral History Stage Sheet
Interview No.
Name f) -v c Ia 14 u e bile v- Interview date
Interviewer LP a Fe.vrr C5 Interview length
Interview Place C. 5 • T -€ n C.e a hex- (Lrn . 7
Special sources of information
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Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
First audit check by
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Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
•
(name)
(name)
Date
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
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Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to binf/ery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Remarks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: E t GcitG
Name CeQ Interviewer Lea Fe.r r i 5
Interview Place P.. 5
Special sources of information
Oral History Stage Sheet
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes
Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages
(name)
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
Proofread by: 1)
2
Photos out for reproduction:
Original photos returned to:
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Sent to bindery by
Received from bindery
Deposited in archives by:
Interview No.
Interview date
Interview length
Ce v-k -eiv- TLrn . 2
(name)
(name)
Where to:
7/95
Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Date:
Date:
Date
Date
Date
Date
No
No
Remarks:
Memory Lane: Fa st - (fie,
Interview No.
Name It-4arj N :rs Interview date ` , f
Interviewer i_ ect Few r i S Interview length
Interview Place C. S Te t ri Cc n.ke.v -vv4 . 2.
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
Final copies: Typed by
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2' Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
(name)
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Lea Ferris: It is September 2, 1995, I am interviewing for the first time Ms. Pat
Holland, Dr. and Mrs. George Huebner, and Mary Jane Hirsch. This interview is
taking place in Room #2, at the Conference Center at 1300 George Bush Drive.
This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the
Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It
is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project.
Now, I want each person, we're going around the room, let each person
introduce yourself, and would you spell you name for the transcriber please and
tell when you came to this area. Now that is what we want first and then we will
come back and let each one of you tell some of your history. Okay Mrs. Holland.
Pat Holland: I am Pat Holland and I came to this area, to College Hills, to go to
work for, the College Hills Estates Development Company in October of 1937.
Lea Ferris: Okay, that is a long time.
George Huebner: I am George Huebner, that is H- u- e- b- n -e -r, I came here as a
freshman in 1937. Pat and I married in 1941, moved away and came back in
1945.
Lea Ferris: Back again in '46, okay, and you came back in '46 Mrs. Huebner?
Pat Huebner: Yes, I will have to amend his. We came back in '45 and stayed
through '46,
George Huebner: Right
Pat Huebner: Then we left and came back in 1950 and been here ever since.
Lea Ferris: Ever since. Okay. All right, Mary Jane.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I am Mary Jane Hirsch, H- i- r- s -c -h. I was born here in
December 1931. My family lived on campus and we moved to Walton Drive in
1940 -1941.
Lea Ferris: Okay, then we have people that go back to 1937 and 1939, this is
real good, we go back a long way. Now Mary Jane why don't you start because
you have been here the longest and tell a little bit about when you moved off
campus and into Eastgate.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well I remember that everyone was told that they had to
move off the campus, and so the families began to look for places, to move and
build houses.
Lea Ferris: When was that? Do you remember?
Mary Jane Hirsch: 1930, middle '30s.
Lea Ferris: Middle '30s
Mary Jane Hirsch: See I was born in '31, so...
Lea Ferris: And you were born on campus?
Mary Jane Hirsch: So I only remember what I heard since then.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And uh my father was hired by J. C. Culpepper to survey,
he was a Civil Engineering Professor at A &M, and he was hired to survey
College Hills. And he drew the plat, I have talked to my brother and learned that
my father did not survey the first installment so, please change to: "and he was
hired to survey the second phase of College Hills." and in payment for that he
was given two lots on Walton Drive. The address is now 1305 Walton. And
remember our family building the house, we would go every afternoon to watch
the house to see how it was, see how it was coming along. It was just the house
of our dreams.
Lea Ferris: At that time, you were still in campus housing.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes, yes, and then...
2
Lea Ferris: And when did you actually move over there? Do you remember the
year?
Mary Jane Hirsch: I thought it was '40.
Lea Ferris: Okay
Mary Jane Hirsch: Now Helen Thomas was just telling me that she thinks it
may have been '41, but I really think it was about 1940, but then my father
continued to survey, and he surveyed back of Walton east and that was called
Wooded Estates.
George Huebner: Woodland Estates.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Woodland Estates.
Lea Ferris: Okay, we will let Pat Holland, now you came here in '37 when they
were first building those homes. You pick it up and tell us about when you
came.
Pat Holland: Okay, uh I came here as she said in 1937, October of 1937 and
when I came here there was only the Field House that that was the office. It
was located where Dr. Bob White Dental offices are now. And then farther on
up the hill there was the H. E. Hampton's home at that is now 1004 Milner Drive
and the Parker D. Hanna home which was 1006 Milner Drive.
Lea Ferris: They were here when you...
Pat Holland: They were here -- -they had just been built and were the only
houses in College Hills at that time. Actually there was nothing but a bald dusty
hill with remnants of patches of stubble indicating that very recently it had been
a cotton field. Mr. and Mrs. J.C. Culpepper had purchased the land from the
Dominik family who lived on the adjoining propery which is now Dominik Dr. and
Culpepper Plaza, etc. All of this land was a part of the Richard Carter League,
and , as you know, richard Carter is buried on the east side of he hill.
3
I was a very young woman when I came here to work for Mr. Culpepper whom I
had known practically all my life. He had come to Texas from Mississippi and
had setled in Cameron where he had gone into a candy wholesale business with
a Mr. Bragg of that city. He married mary Lake Henderson from a very influential
family in that area. They had one son, John Cecil Culpepper, Jr. who was just a
baby when they began the College Hills Estates venture.
Lea Ferris: Mary Lake?
Pat Holland: Mary Lake Henderson.
Lea Ferris: There is a Mary Lake Street.
Pat Holland: Yes, Mary Lake Street in Bryan is named for Mrs. Culpepper.
-- -Well, I'll finish my story of how College Hills came o fruition. As you know, all
this was hapening during the depression years, and even though Mr. Culpepper
was part owner o the candy company, it became necessary that he handle one
of the routes that serviced retail stores from Waco to Houston. After Highway 6
was finished his route took him by this big old wide open coton field located right
across the highway from Eastgate of Texas A &M, and he began to dream of
developing that space into a beautiful subdivison. The ground was so poor it
didn't even grow Ipod cotton; nevertheless he contineued to dream an envsion
beautiful homes and a business section or strip with stores, shops, etc. And
finally it became a reality.
Lea Ferris: And that was about '36, '37?
Pat Holland: That was the end of '36 and the first of '37.
Lea Ferris: Those were hard depression years.
Pat Holland: Mr. Culpepper knew Ben Tisinger who was a wealthy and
successful real estate developer in Dallas -- -they formed a partnership and
named it College Hills Estates Development Company. They brought A.B.
Boughton here as the cheif developer. Mr. Tisinger had been a patient in the
tubercuar sanitarium in Kerrville for a lenghty period of time previously, and he
4
had known other patients there with like interests and had gone into various
phases of real estate after release from the sanitarium. So he contacted them
and all came to work for College Hills Estates. There was a M.L. "Cotton"
Antony and his wife, Marie (Mariehad been a nurse in the sanitarium). Mr.
Antony was made business manager. Also, Paul and Ruth Duhrland and Jimmy
Garrett from that group came. Paul became head of sales, Garrett was a
salesman. Also, locally they employed Brama Jones who had played football for
A &M, but at that time was a veterinary student. He was employed as a
salesman.
Lea Ferris: What was the name of the developer again?
Pat Holland: A. B. Boughton.
Lea Ferris: Do you know how to spell that?
Pat Holland: B- o- u- g- h- t -o -n.
Lea Ferris: Okay, so they came in and were the developers and built the...?
Pat Holland: I was employed as secreary and just "Girl Friday" in general.
Since I had had a fair background training in bookkeeping, I bacame Mr.
Antony's assistatn where I was very busy; One of my most difficult jobs was the
ayroll. The men on the work crews, working under the various building
contractors were paid every saturday, and they were never satisfied with their
checks. Some of those men had had good jobs with good salaries before the
Depression, and they were not happy working on those labor crews for the low
wage -- -some of them were totally frustrated.
Lea Ferris: Okay, now then let's stop just a minute and let the Huebners talk a
little bit about when they came. Now you came in '37 as a student and all that
was a field over there.
George Huebner: Yes, I didn't understand much of what was going over there,
obviously until the 1940's. I didn't pay that much attention to what was
happening on out here because I was over here...
5
Lea Ferris: You were a student, you weren't thinking about a house note.
George Huebner: No, I wasn't worried about that at all and uh I knew they was
over there, but that was all I knew actually. The only thing I recall back in that
time were the McCall's Service Station there, the Blue Top Courts were there.
Lea Ferris: Is that a tourist court?
George Huebner: Yes. Old Blue Top.
Lea Ferris: Do you remember that Mary Jane?
Mary Jane Hirsch: I do, Blue Top.
George Huebner: Near to the blue top courts was a restaurant known as the
"White Way."
Lea Ferris: White Way.
Pat Huebner: It is about where Charlie's is now.
Lea Ferris: I knew there was some businesses there before the houses came.
Pat Huebner: It was the first Tom's Bar -B -Q.
Pat Holland: Well...
Lea Ferris: Now wait just a minute. The name of it was what Mrs. Huebner?
Pat Huebner: Apparently, when we came here some people named Arhopulos,
they were Greek people.
Lea Ferris: Now spell it please.
6
Pat Holland: Well I know there were Putz' here.
Lea Ferris: Mary Jane I understand that the streets over there were named for
deans. Is that right, do you remember that? I read that somewhere.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes, uh -huh, that is true, deans and presidents. Bolton,
Francis,
Lea Ferris: And Munson.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, now the Munson is I guess the rest of my story.
Lea Ferris: Okay, pick it up.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Uh, as I was saying, the Woodland Estates was done later
and my father helped survey that or surveyed it and he had some graduate
students helping him draw plats. And there were 5 acre tracts back there that
they laid out. And I remember Dr. Andres was the first one...
Lea Ferris: Andres. A- n- d- r -e -s, probably?
Mary Jane Hirsch: A- n- d- r -e -s.
Lea Ferris: ...d- r -e -s. Okay.
Pat Holland: He bought the Hayes home.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Oh that Hayes, and they were the horse people.
Pat Holland: Hayes, was an English professor.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Oh he was?
Pat Holland: Dr. D.W. Andres was a medical doctor located over in Southgate
area, and he bought the Hayes home. It was not a large house when they
bought it, but the Andres added another wing' also, hey built servants' quarters.
7
Mrs. Andres was crippled necessitating water exercise, so the added a
swimming pool so she could be exercised in private rather than in the public
pools.
Mary Jane Hirsch: But the graduate students were drawing the plats of the lots
and there was a cow trail back there that didn't have a name. And so the
graduate students put Munson on it.
Lea Ferris: Okay well that's...
Mary Jane Hirsch: And they took it to the city council, my father used to tell this
story that he said it was approved by the city council before he even knew about
it. It was kind of ha -ha, you know, this is an old cow trail, where there will never
be anything to it. And that is how that...
Inaudible
Mary Jane Hirsch: He surveyed I think some of College Hills and Woodland
Estates and drew the maps.
Lea Ferris: And that is after Mr. Culpepper purchased it & then he surveyed it
Mary Jane Hirsch: And in return for that back part he received another lot,
which was the corner lot that is now Gilcrest and Walton Drive.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I don't think Gilcrest was there then. Was it?
George Huebner: No. I'll bet it was later.
Lea Ferris: Would you name again the streets that were named for the deans
over there. Francis did you say was one of them.
8
Pat Holland: Well, Harrington, Puryear, and James Parkway was named for
somebody else.
Lea Ferris: Somebody at the university and Munson was named for a university
professor.
Pat Holland: They were Milner and Gilchrist and Bolton, Foster, Marsteller,
Ahsburn, Walton, and Kyle.
Lea Ferris: Those were all either professors or deans or somebody at the
university.
Pat Holland: Oh yes, deans or something at university.
Lea Ferris: I know when we did Southgate we talked about how those streets
were named, you know, Jersey, and (inaudible) how the cows. That is
interesting how our city got the names of the streets. Was somebody at the
university. So the first College Hills what was called College Hills went back to
about ..to Ashburn
Lea Ferris: To Ashburn, that was kind of the last street, Ashburn. Was that the
newer part?
George Huebner: No, when they were laid out in four different installments.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
George Huebner: The initial one was on the north side, which extended from
Texas Avenue back to Williamson Street back where the school is.
Lea Ferris: Oh, okay.
George Huebner: And, also, from Lincoln to Francis, wasn't it? I think it was.
Lea Ferris: Back to Francis.
9
George Huebner: Yes, and then there were three other installments after that.
Lea Ferris: I see. Did Dr., uh Mr. Culpepper develop all of that.
Pat Holland: Yes, Mr. Culpepper and Ben Tysinger.
George Huebner: Uh you might be interested to know to that the initial plat for
the north end was written up in July of 1938.
Lea Ferris: Okay, July '38.
George Huebner: I have a copy of that.
Lea Ferris: Okay, well then College Hills was one of the newer developments
of the three developments around the campus, and I assume that's because as
Bill told us, the campus used to face the other way so they we kind of the back
side until the highway went through. Now then, I wanted to ask you about that.
The Highway 6 was finished in 1936, do you remember that? Anybody, you
probably do.
Pat Holland: It was new when I came here.
George Huebner: It was here when I got here.
Lea Ferris: All right. It was.
George Huebner: In '37, I know that.
Lea Ferris: Okay, I know I read somewhere in the history of this last night that it
was .... Do you remember when the highway opened?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well I born in December of '31, so I
Lea Ferris: You were about five years old, so it has almost always been there
for you, but it did made a big change in the College Hills Addition where you um
10
Mary Jane Hirsch: I, I don't remember it being called Texas Avenue.
George Huebner: It was Highway 6.
Lea Ferris: 6. Do you know when it named Texas Avenue? Anybody.
George Huebner: I don't know.
Lea Ferris: I have no idea. I did not find that in my reading.
Pat Holland: I have been here a very long time, and I remember its being
renamed, but I don't remeber the date.
ha -ha
Pat Holland: It was Highway 6 a long time, and then, then...
Mary Jane Hirsch: So it wasn't Texas Avenue when I was a child?
George Huebner: No, no.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I didn't think I remembered it.
Lea Ferris: Okay, we are going to get to some of your stories, but the Time
Incorporated, in October 19, 1938. Do you remember that?
Pat Holland: I remember that.
George Huebner: Yes.
Lea Ferris: Everybody. Did anybody, any of you old enough to vote for that?
George Huebner: No.
Lea Ferris: Had a voting over at the little depot.
11
Pat Holland: Yes, do you want to know how that came about I can tell you.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Holland: Mr. Culpepper, Herschel Burgess, and Dr. Lipscomb, who owned
Lipscomb's Pharmacy over at Northgate, met with the Bryan Fathers and made
the euest that we be taken in as a par of the City of Bryan. The Bryan folk found
that rather humorous. They said they did not need College Station and that it
would be too expensive for the City of Bryan to attempt at that time. They
remarked that actually College Station was just the hole in the donut. So this
culminated in the charter being drawn up- - -vote was taken - - -we officially
became the City of College Station, and we've growing ever since. The birthing
of our city was not easy, but just look around you and be proud. We have a
beautiful clean vibrant young city, and we have only just begun. We really owe
Bryan a vote of thanks for forcing us to claim our own identity.
Lea Ferris: We have the book, The History of College Station, right here and it
has some of that, you know, in it, how those men ....
Pat Holland: Well, I was his secretary at the time, and I know...
Lea Ferris: That's the way...
Pat Holland: That's the way it happened.
Lea Ferris: Okay, now lets go back to the early College Hills days. When do
the, you were there, you said when you moved there were just two houses there.
Pat Holland: Yes. Let me tell you what I saw and how I felt the first time I saw
College Hills. I was already confused and disgusted because I had had so much
trouble finding a place to live. The people here just did not rent room to young
single women at that time because of close proximity to the all male institution. I
was so humiliated by their atitudes. They made me feel like I might be a recruit
from the "Chicken Farm" over at Brenham.
12
Pat Holland: Community, so anyway...
Lea Ferris: Things have changed.
Pat Holland: Yes, so I had to had to take a room in a big old boarding house on
West 26th Street in Bryan for a while. It was so hard to get out to College Hills
from Bryan - - -I did not have a car, and the buses ran out College Road to the
campus, and I would have to walk from Northgate to College Hills. It just wasn't
working out so Mr. Culpepper contacted Mr. and Mrs. Louis Mais who he had
known for a long time and was able to prevail upon them to let me rent their
guest room in their new home. - - -But back to my story my first impression of
College Hills -- -now just try to picture this: I stepped out of the car and looked
around -- -there was nothing just nothing on this side of the highway except this
old bald hill covered with the stubbles of the old cotton patch and those two
lonely houses and the little office building. I suddenly felt like I was suffocating,
and I thought, :Oh, what have gotten myself into "!
Lea Ferris: No streets. No ...
Pat Holland: Well the streets were being built. There was Foster, there was a
portion of Milner and all you could see was dust and smell that tar from the
streets and all the hammering and the sawing which indicted there were many
houses in progress.
George Huebner: What year was that?
Pat Holland: That's 1937, October of 1937.
Lea Ferris: You had arrived as a student, I believe
Pat Holland: I had decided I just could not stay. Then I thought of my father
and what he had always taught me, 'your word is your law', and I had given my
word to Mr. Culpepper that I would come here and work. So I went on inside the
office bilding where I received the warmest welcome from the most wonderful
bunch of people, and suddenly I was feeling a little better. I decide to give it my
best try one day at a time. It was a real challenge, and I finally started thinking of
13
my job as pioneering, and one day I woke up to the fact that I was really
enjoying it, because I was a working part of the actual growth of a new
communitiy. I watched the pretty houses spring up everywhere, and the old bald
hill was losing its stubble and becoming beautiful. I began to feel so much pride
and love for the place.
Lea Ferris: Are you still living in the same home?
Pat Holland: No. We uh bought the Spear I. Shelldrupp home. He was a ...
Lea Ferris: Excuse me again, which home?
Pat Holland: S. I. Shelldrupp. S- H- E- L- L- D- R -U -P. He was an English
professor over on the campus and he and his wife built this home. She had a
terminal illness and they lived in the house only a little while. Then they went
back north where she died. And the house was for sale and there was another
English Prof. who lived in it with the idea that he would buy it if he could raise
the money and he couldn't. And so it went on the block with Mr. Culpepper and
then he sold it to H.T. and me and that in July of 1943. We moved in to 1013
Milner, well it was 225 Milner at that time. And we have lived there ever since.
Lea Ferris: Okay. Now Mary Jane long about that time you had moved over
there.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. We had moved over there in 1940.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh
Mary Jane Hirsch: And the Thomas house was there and Leland house was
already there.
Lea Ferris: The one that burnt.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. The Leeland's house burned all the way to the
ground.
14
Lea Ferris: So it was that house was there?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. And uh we lived there until 1942 when my father was
in the Army Reserves and he was called to active duty as many were during the
war and so we were gone till 1945. And the house was rented to a Col. Bevens.
Do you remember him? And they had, I was talking to Mary Leeland this
morning, and she said she remembers that they had six children. And uh then
we were back for only one year, and then in 1946 or early '47 we left, my father
took a job at Dow Chemical Company down in Freeport. He became a chief civil
engineer for them, so we left and our family didn't live here after that.
Lea Ferris: When was that again? About '47?
Mary Jane Hirsch: About '46 or '47.
Lea Ferris: Right after the war.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. We were here a year uh after the war, '45, '46 and
then we moved.
Lea Ferris: And then when did you come back here?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Uh, my husband and I moved here in 1956.
Lea Ferris: Okay, so you came back as an adult.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Uh -huh, and I been here ever since.
Lea Ferris: Okay. Okay, now then tell us uh, the Huebners, tell us about when
you came now.
Pat Huebner: Well, as permanent residents, we came uh first to Bryan in '50,
then we moved in the house we now live in '53.
Lea Ferris: Which is?
15
Pat Huebner: 1010 Walton.
Lea Ferris: Walton. You are on Walton.
Pat Huebner: We were next door to the house that considered the highest
elevation in College Hills. The Lauterstein's live there. He had a big ....
Lea Ferris: Now wait just a minute. The Lauterstein's. Do you know how to
spell it.
PatHuebner: Lauterstein
George Huebner: J. B.
Pat Huebner: J. B. And I think they owned all of south side homes.
Lea Ferris: Is that house still there?
Pat Huebner: Oh, in deed, yes it is.
Lea Ferris: The highest elevation in College Hills. I haven't understood why
they call it "Hills ".
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, if you ride around over there or try to walk it is hills,
even if you run in the park from one end to the other that there
Lea Ferris: Well, I walk over there all the time.
Pat Huebner: Uh, we have four children and our oldest daughter was always
rather a serious little girl. When they opened the area, they called Carter's
Grove, we went back to see it. Uh we went back to see it, I guess she was, well
let's see, she was about four and half when we moved into the house, she was
about five and half or so, and we went back, drove back and looked. She was
utterly dismayed, and I said, "Meg, what is the matter ?" And she said, "Where is
16
Carter's grave ?" She thought we were going to a cemetery, and there was
nothing back there but empty lots.
Lea Ferris: Now, Carter's Grove is on the other side of Francis. Is that all
called....
Pat Huebner: Berkeley, and back in there.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh. Berkeley and Neal Pickett, and Merry Oaks, that is
Carter's Grove. But, Francis, you know, is on the other side.
George Huebner: Runs east to west.
Lea Ferris: That's on the other side of Francis.
Pat Huebner: Francis comes on up to Texas.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh, uh -huh.
Pat Huebner: Now, College Hills was not there, that was Clay Hills where
College Hills School is.
Lea Ferris: It was called ...
Pat Huebner: Clay Hills. The kids called it Clay Hills. I astonish myself when I
think about the fact that those kidos would go down there and play and it never
crossed my mind to have to go and check on them. I knew they were just as
safe.
Lea Ferris: Well that creek runs back behind there, uh -huh, they have that
nature trail back there now.
Pat Huebner: The school opened in uh ...
Lea Ferris: Yes, that was on my list when that college building ...
17
Pat Huebner: In about '59.
Lea Ferris: The College Hills School. Uh, Mary Jane where did you start to
school?
Mary Jane Hirsch: On the campus.
Lea Ferris: Okay, you, you went to school on campus. Did you ever come to
this building?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes, the building where the interview is taking place.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Pat Huebner: What was the school in that stucco building where you make the
turn? It's not there anymore.
Mary Jane Hirsch: No it's not. It was on a kind of curve
Pat Huebner: It was called the Music Building.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. It was an Aggie Band Hall.
Lea Ferris: What? Over there? The Aggie Band Hall was over there?
George Huebner: On campus, yes.
Mary Jane Hirsch: It's not there anymore.
Pat Huebner: It was where the new dorms were, where you make that real
huge turn.
Mary Jane Hirsch: We called it the new dorms, Corps dorms.
George Huebner: Right across from what was called the "South Station" Post
Office -- no longer in that location ...
18
Lea Ferris: But you actually went to school a couple years in this, if you were
born in '31, you started about '37, and when did they ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: I was in second grade when we moved to this school
Lea Ferris: This school. Okay. ie., (The school on George Bush street.)
Mary Jane Hirsch: And we called it the Chicken Shacks. And I remember
moving, I remember packing our things at school and moving.
Lea Ferris: Why were they called the Chicken Shacks?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Cause that is what they looked like. Do you remember over
here, they were separate buildings?
Pat Huebner: It was just a long, flat, flat rooftop and you go in a different door
for each class. It was a lot like chicken shacks, I thought.
Lea Ferris: I get the idea.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Let's see, I had Mrs. Holzmann in the third grade and after
the third grade everybody in school skipped a grade, because they put in twelve
year ...
Lea Ferris: Yeah, I remember when they put in the twelve year system.
Mary Jane Hirsch: So everybody in College Station skipped a grade. So I was
never in the fourth grade.
Lea Ferris: I grew up in Oklahoma, right across the river, just three miles on the
other side of the river, and I know my Texas friends only went through eleventh
years and we had twelve years. I remember how thrilled I was when ya'II had to
go twelve year. Okay, now then, do you remember any of your neighbors Mrs.
Huebner?
19
Pat Huebner: Oh many.
Lea Ferris: Okay
Pat Huebner: The very last neighbor, who was there when I moved there, he's
drawing plans for a new house. So I guess we are going to be the senior
citizens after, well, Willie Leighton across the street, she's still there. But next to
us is a vacant lot and then the Virgil Faires house (inaudible)
Lea Ferris: The Faires.
Pat Huebner: Fa ire s.
Lea Ferris: Okay. That is a little different ...
Pat Holland: He was an engineer or something.
George Huebner: He was head of the Mechanical Engineering Department.
Lea Ferris: Did you buy your house new? Was it a Culpepper house?
Pat Huebner: Uh, no it wasn't. Dr. Redmond built our house. Harold
Redmond.
Lea Ferris: From Redmond Terrace?
Pat Huebner: Uh -huh. Funny story about that was we were graduate students
for three years before we got our house, and I went to a church party, not at the
house next door but the other house, the Helwig's ( ?) house one night. And uh I
got in my car to leave and of course we didn't have street lights and I had no
idea in kingdom come which way to go or how to get out of there. It was dark as
a pit. I finally just drove around until I found the spot where I could look at the
university and I thought, oh I need to go that way.
Lea Ferris: That way.
20
Pat Huebner: I remembered being at her house and thinking, "I hope we have
a house like this someday ", and sure enough, three years later, he built their
house, and their house is rather similar to that one, so there wasn't another like
it.
Lea Ferris: I guess the sales really boomed.
Pat Holland: They did.
Lea Ferris: Mostly the college people that were moving off campus?
Pat Holland: Yes mostly -- -they were mostly professors and the military
administrative people from the campus. There were srtict regulations imposed at
that time. They were selective as to the residents who moved in - - -1 guess you
would call it an exclusive neighborhood in the begining. Of course those of us
who pioneered this place have seen all those good rules and regulations
trampled and done away with quite a few years ago, but it's still a good place to
live.
(Changed tapes)
Pat Huebner: They paved that not long after we moved
Lea Ferris: Ask, just a minute, ask that question again so we can get it on the
tape.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Are you ready?
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, I remember Walton Drive being gravel.
Pat Huebner: Red gravel.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Am I right?
21
Pat Huebner: Yes.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And I remember a tree in the middle of the street, sort of in
front of our house and down a little bit towards the Leeland's house.
Lea Ferris: Well, Walton Drive probably didn't go ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: It deadened at uh Thomas', didn't it?
Pat Holland: Walton Drive deadened into the Thomas house at the time, yes.
Which is on Kyle.
Lea Ferris: On Kyle, okay.
Pat Holland: It is right there where Walton and Kyle come together. All the
homes built by Culpepper were FHA.
Lea Ferris: I see.
Pat Holland: And they had to meet very rigid specifications and one of my jobs
was to type all the specs for the homes. I saw a brick home up there that was
well on the way to be to being finished, and the inspector came and it had to be
torn down. That is how carefully those homes were built at the time. And ...
Lea Ferris: Now the streets were put in paved as they went in?
Pat Holland: I know Milner was paved it had been gravel in the beginning, but
when I came here they were, as I said a little bit ago, they were beginning to top
those streets with a little bit of.
George Huebner: Asphalt.
Pat Holland: Asphalt. Like they said the Faires home, that was the first big
house built. I got to know all of those people who came in to build their homes
there. I'm a people person and I enjoyed working with those people and we had
22
job after job. Now we had, I forgot to mention in the beginning, we had an
architect on our staff. She was Marianna Thomas.
Lea Ferris: Oh wow, a female.
Pat Holland: Yes and she did all
Lea Ferris: Mary Anna
Pat Holland: Marianna Thomas, her husband was going through vet school at
the time. And so she and I worked together, I did the typing, she did the big
part. And we were the only females in the bunch until our staff slowly grew as
the hill grew. And Mrs. Ruth Duhrland, who had been ....
Lea Ferris: Duhrland, Paul's wife came in ...
Lea Ferris: D u r
Pat Holland: D u h r I a n d. And she came in as the main secretary at that
time. And I continued to work under Cotton Antony, who was the Business
Manager, and I know when I decided that I could live here was this is an
interesting little story to interject here. Cotton took me over on the campus to
show me the Northgate Post Office, that is where I was to go and pick up the
mail everyday. And we went right at the noon time and we had to stop for the
Corps to march into Sbisa Hall. The band was playing, the Corps was
marching, and I thought this is not too bad, really.
Ha -ha -ha
Pat Holland: Then my job began to take on a different light.
Lea Ferris: All right, now ya'll have told about some early businesses, were
there other businesses springing up along the road there?
Pat Huebner: Not really. We had to go into Bryan for bottled milk.
23
George Huebner: Uh, there was a grocery store at, on a Hwy. 6 and what is is
now, University Drive.
Pat Huebner: Mais Grocery
Lea Ferris: Mais
Pat Huebner: No, I think it is Mais
Lea Ferris: Mais
Pat Holland: I lived in ...
Pat Huebner: Just, just a note, I'm sure there was much planning that went on,
but apparently the surveyor other than Mr. Munson did our area, because the
Lauterstein house, it was the first house; when they finished it and, surveyed for
the lot line, his garage and part of his bedroom were on our lot.
George Huebner: My lot.
Pat Huebner: So
Lea Ferris: It wasn't Mr. Munson. Ha -ha
(inaudible)
Pat Huebner: 50 20 feet was purchased from the next lot.
Lea Ferris: Where is the Lauterstein house?
Pat Huebner: Lauterstein house
Pat Huebner: Where you make that tremendous curve, it's the third house. On
the south side of Walton, after Nunn St and painted blue.
Lea Ferris: On Walton?
24
Pat Huebner: Did you know Julia Burns?
Lea Ferris: No, no I didn't know ...
Pat Huebner: Did you know the Parkers?
Lea Ferris: I didn't know anybody.
Pat Huebner: You don't know anybody on that street.
Lea Ferris: I just wondered which street it was ...
Pat Huebner: It's Walton.
Lea Ferris: On Walton.
Pat Huebner: And so, everybody had to move over and as a result, The Faires,
of course, had built their house and then our house was built later and the lot
between us and the Ferries was a very small lot and it went wanting about 25
years because it was too small to meet anybody...and finally an architect found
a way to put a house. But we were all , we're, part of our house is on the next
lot, and it really was ... but they scratch their head when they look at the
surveying so ...
Pat Huebner: There is a reason for that. Uh you see when, when it was being
laid out uh there were certain specifications, as we all know, but uh the City
owned, we don't own all of our lots. The City owns the front part of our lots so
there would be sidewalks there all over that area were to have sidewalks. And
uh then, but that was taken into consideration. And there were certain things
that had to be met that time that uh caused ...
Pat Huebner: .. terrific curve
Pat Holland: Yes. Yes.
25
Lea Ferris: Uh, Mrs. Holland, now a days when uh the developers develop,
they have to give the city certain lands for parks.
Pat Holland: Right.
Lea Ferris: Were to park lands given by Dr. Culpepper or Mr. Culpepper, at
that time? You know the two parks over there. The park off of Marsteller down
there and then Thomas Park?
Pat Holland: Not at that time.
Lea Ferris: You remember, anybody remember how those were purchased,
and when they became parks?
(inaudible)
Pat Holland: But they weren't in the ...
Lea Ferris: In the original ...
Pat Holland: In the original plans. I can still just see the plan. It was on the
wall in the Office Field House. And we have not touched at all on the business
section of College Hills. That was built later and I want to tell you folks
something that you probably don't know that on the corner of Putz Lane, it was
then, it is now Lincoln and Walton Drive, Mrs. Schulman bought ...
Lea Ferris: S c h u
Pat Holland: S c h u I m a n, who had all the theaters in Bryan, was going to put
a big theater out here, right on the corner there. And she signed all sorts of
papers to that agreement. And the first thing we knew, there was this big sign
out there; and signs were absolutely taboo on College Hills. There would be no
signs!
Lea Ferris: Like billboards.
26
Pat Holland: Yes. Big, big this thing was. And there was a statement on that
sign that made all students angry because she stated that Bryan was the home
of the Texas Aggies. At that time the football players were not offered a
scholarship. They came with the idea that they were guaranteed a job and they
were guaranteed a place to live. That they played football at that time. And we
had one Henry Hauser of the what became the big 1939 team and he worked for
us. He ran the driving range there.
Lea Ferris: What was his name?
Pat Holland: Henry Hauser.
Lea Ferris: Howse r
Pat Holland: H a u s e r. When he couldn't work it Marshall Robinet worked it
for us and also ...
Lea Ferris: What happened to the theater?
Pat Holland: Anyway these boys were very angry about the, this little sign that
said that Bryan was their home. So, one morning we went to work and that had
all been painted out, that part of it. And then the big part of the sign stated that it
was the future home of this theater.
Lea Ferris: Now was this after College Station had become a city?
Pat Holland: No. This was the beginning of College Hills. It was on the corner
of Putz Lane, which is Lincoln, and Walton Drive.
George Huebner: They don't intersect though.
Pat Holland: Well, at that time, that, it went on around and you have to realize
that ... you don't realize it now.
George Huebner: I understand.
27
Pat Holland: And it was placed where, you know, Dr. Walton had his office and
next to a service station ...
Pat Huebner: Oh, I know where you are now.
Lea Ferris: Is that in where Bob White lives now?
Pat Huebner: No, that is across the way that little cut through there by the
donut place
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Holland: At the end of what was to be the business section or what is the
business section. Anyway one night, way in the wee hours, the sign burnt and
that was the end of that. But they had talked to Mrs. Schulman, they had had
many meetings with her and she continued to say that there would be a theater,
but she didn't know when. She would not remove the sign. So, it was burnt.
don't know who burned it, nobody knows who burned it.
Lea Ferris: I'll bet they had a pretty good idea.
Pat Holland: Yeah, anyway it burned and that was the end of that. So ..
Lea Ferris: That would have been probably about '37 since we became a city
in '38.
Pat Holland: Well it burned in '37. Urn the end of '37.
Lea Ferris: Now you said Putz Lane, now what business did the Putz's have?
Pat Huebner: They were farmers.
Pat Holland: Well, they had the beer joint down along the way on Hwy. 6. Now
I think that is real strange about the beer joint, it was later in the cafe, White
Way Cafe, but he also sold alcoholic beverages. At that time, you know the law
28
did not allow alcoholic beverages to be sold within so many feet of an institution,
an educational institution. Therefore, the beer joint over there and, ma'am?
Pat Huebner: My understanding is you couldn't sell it at all in Brazos County.
You had to go across the bridge.
Pat Holland: Go across the bridge, but he had beer right over here.
Pat Huebner: The Putz family owned all that area where, where the Golden
Corral is.
Lea Ferris: Oh, I see.
Pat Huebner: All of that and it still there off on University. The Putz still live up
there.
Pat Holland: Yes, I see.
Pat Huebner: It wasn't just that Mr. Putz, but the family owned all land that they
filled in south of University Drive.
Pat Holland: He and then Uncle Ed Hadlika had the other beer joint, you know,
that was ...
George Huebner: They sold beer. I know.
ha -ha (inaudible)
Pat Holland: Yes. I know.
Lea Ferris: I wonder how do you know, how do you know about that George?
George Huebner: Uh, I heard about it.
Ha -ha
29
Pat Huebner: Cause he went out there one time to see it.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Pat Holland: Well, if I may, I will tell a little interesting part of this area out here.
There were several businesses north of College Hills and of course, Vanoy
Cafe, which you know was actually a part of Blue Tops. And since there was
Blue Top Courts ..
Lea Ferris: Now where were the Blue Tops Courts?
Pat Holland: They were
George Huebner: Right where Advanced Computer is and Red Lobster.
Pat Huebner: There where Red Lobster is.
Pat Holland: Red Lobster and all that.
George Huebner: In that area.
Lea Ferris: And those were the old fashioned, little individual ...
Pat Holland: Yes. Right across from, well it's on the corner of Lincoln. Right
there on the corner. It had a blue top, too.
George Huebner: Yes.
Pat Holland: And I ate every one of my meals there except when someone
would take me to the College Inn.
George Huebner: What was that restaurant called?
Pat Holland: Vanoy.
30
George Huebner: Vanoy. That's right.
Lea Ferris: Van
Pat Holland: Vanoy. Van o y. Vanoy Cafe.
Lea Ferris: I wonder if....was that the people ...
Pat Holland: Yes. The man's name was Vanoy.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Holland: Then as I said The Blue Tops and then next was My Waterloo, it
was the Aggieland Service Station, and it was a Sinclair station. It was owned
by John Bravenec.
Lea Ferris: He was hired ...
Pat Holland: Was hired, John Bravenec. Bray i n e c.
Pat Huebner: v e n e c
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Holland: Anyway.
Pat Huebner: It is still there.
Pat Holland: No. It burned.
Pat Huebner: But John Bravenec's station is still there.
Pat Holland: Yes, but this one burned. He hired a man from Bryan run it and
then he hired two students. One was the one I married and they also lived
there, those two students did. And I lived at the Lewis Mais home.
31
Lea Ferris: Which was in College Hills?
Pat Holland: Which was right north. Which was over at the corner of Sulpher
Springs Road, which is now University Drive, and Highway 6.
Pat Huebner: That is the store I was telling you about was on that corner.
Pat Holland: Yes, Mais Grocery.
(inaudible)
Pat Holland: No they had a very nice home right next door to the store.
Lea Ferris: That was the back of ... that was Mais Grocery.
Pat Holland: Yes.
Lea Ferris: And it was on the corner of what's now, University and Texas.
Pat Holland: Yes. It was Sulphur Springs Road then.
Pat Huebner: It is where that big diamond diamond um
Lea Ferris: Shamrock.
Pat Huebner: Filling station
Pat Holland: Yes. That's where we
George Huebner: Southeast corner.
Lea Ferris: That was the first grocery store out there for you.
Pat Holland: Well now, there was Burkhalter Store back up right close to the
Lea Ferris: Uh, give us that name again.
32
Pat Holland: Burkhalter. B u r k h a l t e r
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Holland: It was also there, but it wasn't quite as large as Mais Grocery and
wasn't as handy. It was right next to Lee Putz place. But the service station,
had to pass there everyday walking going to work, and so ...
Lea Ferris: H. T. Holland got his eye on you.
Pat Holland: And so H.T. and I finally married in 1939. That is when he asked
me to resign my job and I did and became a homemaker. But there was, let me
get this, there was that service station, then there was the Putz Beer place, and
then there was a small garage and I don't know who that belonged to. Then
there was Burkhalter's Store and then ...
Lea Ferris: So Burkhalter's Grocery and Mais Grocery were fairly close
together?
Pat Holland: Well about ...
Pat Huebner: A block or two maybe.
Pat Holland: Yeah. We didn't have blocks out here then, but uh (ha -ha)
Anyway, then there were some homes interspersed there then the next business
was Myers Lumber Yard.
Lea Ferris: Myra?
Pat Holland: Myers. M- Y- E -R -S. They were to the back of the Louis Mais
property. Then there the Mais family, and they were right next door to their
grocery store. At that time some of the students who lived off campus were
housed in Project Houses. They were just big old wooden structures where a
sutudent could get a room and his meals for a nominal fee. Mr. Myers had built
33
two of those houses over in the vicinity of where Nations Bank is now located,
and there were a great number of students living there.
Lea Ferris: Mary Jane, do you remember shopping at those grocery stores.
Mary Jane Hirsch: No.
Lea Ferris: Do you?
Pat Huebner: Well I have been to Lewis Mais. I never did know about
Burkhalter's. Now University stopped, I mean it was gravel about this wide right
where the Wolf and the Hound or whatever that is called ...
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh. That was the end of University?
Pat Huebner: Of University. Long years really.
Pat Holland: Oh, yes.
Pat Huebner: Then Zarape's was right in that place. But if it rained, you
couldn't go down there.
Lea Ferris: Okay. I remember when we first came here in '72, Zarape's was
down in that hole that's where is was then, it has Anco Insurance there now,
think. They built across there, across from that hole.
Pat Holland: I don't know.
Lea Ferris: But anyway, it is down where that hole was uh 404.
Pat Holland: That whole shopping center there is, that was the end ...
Lea Ferris: Oh I see. When did they put University on through? Do you
remember?
34
George Huebner: I don't remember the year, but I remember they extended it
on down all right.
Pat Holland: When I was living up there, you ran, I mean, it was two blocks on
down Sulpher Springs Road, and that was way back in 1937. And then you ran
into Mr. Ringhauffer's garden. I mean that was the end and we
Lea Ferris: Mr.....
Pat Holland: Ringhauffer. He worked for the grounds over on campus.
Lea Ferris: Have any idea how to spell that name? Ringhoeffer.
Pat Holland: Ring ha u f f e r wasn't it, I think? Anyway, Jane Street is
named for his oldest daughter.
Lea Ferris: What street?
Pat Holland: Jane Street. It is over between the Black Eyed Pea and ..
Pat Huebner: I always wondered how Jane got over there with Nimitz and (ha-
ha - inaudible)
Pat Holland: Well, Jane was his oldest daughter - - -a very attractive girl. Their
home is where the Blackeyed Pea is now located. They owned that block
between Sulphur Springs Rd. and Cooner St. Thay had small rent houses on
both sides of Jane St. Mr. Myers owned some land to the west of it where he
had built two large Project Houses and two nice little rent houses until he (Mr.
Myers) told us we would have to move, because he was going to tear down all
those buildings and sell the property. Mr. Culpepper had bought all of that
property, and later built the Bank of Commerce on that park facing Texas
Avenue. The building is now housing Richard Smith Realty.
Lea Ferris: Uh, when ya'II first put these houses in over there, were there
sewer lines?
35
Pat Holland: There were septic tanks.
Pat Huebner: We had septic tanks when we moved in our house. We moved
in our house in '53.
George Huebner: Septic tanks.
Lea Ferris: In '53 there still septic tanks. When were the sewers put in?
George Huebner: Uh, the sewers
Lea Ferris: They are still putting them in way out on University.
George Huebner: We had a septic tank in '53 but it had been bypassed and
connected directly to the sewer line in the back alley, before the beginning of
1953.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Lea Ferris: Well, it is my understanding reading, you know, the history that one
of the reasons for incorporating and making a city is being able to offer, you
know, utilities, electricity, and
Pat Holland: That is true, we had sewer lines.
Lea Ferris: Because up until this time, you were either depending on the
university for electricity lines coming off and I understand College Hills got in
quite a battle with Bryan over their electrical lines for a long time. You were
serviced by REA, which was owned by Bryan for a long time and tried to buy
them.
Pat Holland: But we did have our own water system. We had our own wells. I
remember when those were dug.
Lea Ferris: For just College Hills?
36
Pat Holland: Well, they serviced College Hills and they serviced that cafe and
the Blue Tops, that service station, Aggieland Service Station. We sold water to
those places.
Lea Ferris: To those places.
Pat Holland: Uh -huh.
Lea Ferris: And then I think we, we being College Station actively obtained
control of those lines in the 40's after about a ten year battle to get them. Does
anybody remember that?
George Huebner: It would be easy to find out.
Pat Holland: Yeah.
Lea Ferris: I just wondered if any of you remembered any of those meetings
about
Pat Holland: No. we were speaking of the Blue Top Tourist Courts. Ben
Tysinger built the first phase of those in College Hill's early infancy. They built in
three phases. They consrtucted as small individual cottages separated by a car
port. The cottage were quite nice - -the floor was an L shape -- bedroom /bath and
then a large storage space and small wet bar. A few were equipped with tiny
kitchenetts in place of the wet bar. They were heavily carpeted and really very
comfortable. A few of our people lived there - -Mr. Tysinger, Jim Garrett and our
architect and her husband.
George Huebner: Didn't Mr. Antony have a hand in that?
Pat Holland: Mr. Antony's wife, Marie, ran the Blue Top Courts. The office
building at the curts was rather large and the second floor had been added as
liveing quarters for the manager. So cotton and Marie and their little boy moved
inot those quarters, and she took over the mamagerial position. She had a work
staff of maids, a day porter and a night porter; during rush periods we were
asked to fill in when the Antonys had to be out of quarters, and I would manage
the courts and H.T. would go on to his work.
37
Lea Ferris: Started parting way back there.
Pat Holland: These times were usual! just routine and uneventful. But there
was one time that really sticks out in my memory as one of the most harrowing
experiences in my life. It was Thanksgiving of 1940, and the Antonys wanted to
go away for the holidays, so they called us to move in while they were away.
We all agreed that business would be very slow as the Aggie /Longhorn game
would be in Austin that year. H.T. and his brother had made plans to attend the
game, and I told him to go right on, because I could handle things at the courts.
However the night before the game became hectic as former students fans
started stopping off in College Station to party and go on over to Austin he next
day. As you may or may not remember that back in those years tourist courts
were not equipped with ice machines where you picked up your own ice; the
office had a call board and you buzzed there and a porter delivered your bucket
of ice - -- regular room service just like a hotel. Well on that night all of our
cottages filled up, and that call board was one continuos buzz and it lit up like a
chrstmas tree. H.T. and two porters worked room service until the wee hours as
our guests partied and partied and partied. H.T. was undicided that he go on,
cause all those Aggie fans would check out early to go to the game, and our
best porter was scheduled to work and we could handle it, so he finally decided
to go. Our oldest son was just a baby at that time, and I was busy with him when
I heard the buzzers start down stairs. I went down and asked Shorty, the porter,
what was going on, and he said, "Miz Pat these folks are not moving out - -only 2
cars left the rest of them are yelling for ice." I tried to call in extra porters but
none were at home - - -we were not allowed to use the maids for room service
duty, ao it was up to Shorty to get the job done. I ran back upstaris to check on
my baby, an when I came back down, I could smell liquor on Shorty, and when
confronted him about it he said some of the guests were tipping with drinks. I
told him if he got drunk on me I would see that he was fired. He promised that
he wouldn't -- -Sure! I had to run upstairs and when I returned that board was
squaking and lights were flashing, and Shorty was lying on his cot, passed out
drunk as a skunk. So I sent the maid upstairs to take care of my baby, and
stared running the ice -- I was mad and scared too. I found a big stick that I
carried with me - -I'd set the bucket at the cottage door, move away a safe
distance, reach back with the stick and tap on the door and then run back
38
upstairs when the call bell started ringing in the office - - -I went down and there
was Dr. Gettys, a math professor in the math department on the campus.
George Huebner: Yes.
Lea Ferris: What was his name again?
Pat Holland: Gettys. G e t t y s. He built the first nice duplex on College Hills.
It is still over on Foster. He and his wife had a beatiful little girl, and his wife
thought that she (the little girl) should be in the movies, so she left Dr. Gettys
and took her to Hollywood. I had great respect for Dr. Gettys - - -he was always
kind and very pleasant to work with during the time we were building his house
for him. I had not seen him in quite a while and was surprised to find him
waiting in the office. We talked for a short time and then he said he wanted to
look in Cottage #23. Of course the place was vacant,but he did a thorough
inspection. As he was leaving he gave me his telephone number and asked me
to call him when the occupants of #23 returned. As he got into his car he said,
"I'Ilbe back" by that time I was becoming concerned, a little apprehensive and
really just a little scared. This man was not acting like the Dr. Gettys I always
known, I could not decide what was wrong - - -he was not drunk, that much Iwas
sure of.
Pat Huebner: That's good. I thought she was.
Pat Holland: It wasn't long before my husband came in from the game very
unhappy - - -the Aggies had been defeated. Since he worked all of the previous
night, I insisted that he turn in early. I did not mention the bad day I had had and
the Gettys incident. A while later I had heard the call bell begin to ring, and I
started hurring down to answer it disturbed my baby and my husband. About
half way down the stairs I met Dr. Gettys - - -he was coming up the stairs and
calling my name. He said he had been watching, and his wife had come back to
# 23, and he wanted to go out there. I tried to explain to him that I was sure
there was nobody in that cottage, but then he accused me of trying to help her
hide out, so I got the keys and was about to take him back out to # 23 when Mr.
Black, who had the pharmacy next door, accompanied by a number of other
men hurried into the office. Mr. Black apologized for all the trouble, but that the
39
doctor was really sick. He told me to just go back upstairs and they would
handle him. With that they forcible took him outside. I locked all the doors,
turned on the "NO VACANCY" sign and started back upstairs when I met H.T.
coming down - - -he asked what all the noise was about - - -I told him we'd discuss it
in the morning, and I fell exhausted into bed. We were later told that Dr. Gettys
had suffered a complete breakdown. We filled in for the Antonys at the Blue
Tops several times after that but never another time quite as eventful as that
Thanksgiving of 1940.
Lea Ferris: Mary Jane, why don't you tell us a little about what you remember
about your childhood growing up over there. Did ya'll go to movies, where did
you go, how much did they cost?
Mary Jane Hirsch: We went to movies in Bryan, the Palace Theater.
Lea Ferris: Over in downtown Bryan. And you drove your car, did you
(inaudible).
Mary Jane Hirsch: I remember Black's Pharmacy. I remember Jean Black
came when I was in the Third Grade we were very close friends. I just saw her
and that must have been ...
changed tape
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yeah, there used to be Luke's, Luke and Charlie's in
Northgate and Luke Patrenella moved over right there at the Eastgate right next
to
Pat Holland: In the business section.
Lea Ferris: I knew there was a Northgate, I never knew there was Eastgate.
Pat Huebner: Like where Partner's is now.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Joyce was a good friend of mine.
40
Pat Huebner: What about Elsie Sauer, I think? Do you know Elsie Sauer, she
is his widow?
Pat Holland: He was at the end where the guitar place is now.
Mary Jane Hirsch: (inaudible)
Pat Holland: No.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well he died.
Pat Holland: And Edna Pruitt, moved her beauty shop from northgate over to
College Hills business strip..
Lea Ferris: That was there when I came.
Pat Huebner: Mr. Culpepper had quite a suite at the other end.
Pat Holland: Yes. Also, if you remember Manning Smith was in there with
insurance ...
(inaudible)
Lea Ferris: The Thomas Waltons were where?
Pat Huebner: They were in a seperate building. Dr. Walton Jr. was a physician
and had his own building.
Lea Ferris: Was Walton Drive named after?
George Huebner, Pat Huebner: Thomas Walton Sr, his father.
Pat Holland: Who was President.
41
Pat Huebner: Of the university.
George Huebner: President for about eight years.
Lea Ferris: I see.
Pat Holland: And, also Nita Smith, had her uh ...
Pat Huebner: A little later yeah.
Pat Holland: Uh, her ...
Pat Huebner: Dressing.
Pat Holland: You know, she ...
Pat Huebner: Dancing.
Pat Holland: Well, she made uh.
Pat Huebner: Pantaloons and square dance dresses.
Pat Holland: Nita Smith had a shop there where they designed and made
dance costumes for the opry in Nashville.
Lea Ferris: She had a little business over there.
Pat Holland: Yes. Square dance costume business.
George Huebner: That was in the 1960's.
Lea Ferris: But, but back to the movies. You went downtown, there was no
movie out this way.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well the Campus Theater, yes.
42
Pat Holland: That came later.
George Huebner: Yeah, that was later on.
Lea Ferris: But in the 30's Mary Jane, ya'll went into the movies. What did the
movies cost you? About a dime.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Probably, I don't remember. I remember we always
stopped at the pharmacy across the street and uh to get a drink.
Lea Ferris: Coca -Cola.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Or a soda. Uh,
Lea Ferris: Talking about downtown.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yeah. We went to the Palace Theater and occasionally the
Queen, and our mama wouldn't let us go Dixie.
Lea Ferris: Pat, do you remember when ya'll would go out to eat? I mean, you
mentioned these cafes or restaurants or cafes or whatever they were. Do you
remember about what the cost of a meal would be?
Pat Huebner: Couldn't have been very much. I went to TWU in Denton and I
would come down here for the weekend. We ate at the restaurant that is now, it
has been a bicycle shop, but was Vanoys. And White Way was the other one,
but the Aggieland Inn was a lovely, lovely inn and they had lovely meals there.
Lea Ferris: But if you ate at these little cafes or little restaurants ...
Pat Huebner: Uh a hamburger was twenty -five cents.
Lea Ferris: Hamburger or chicken fried steak probably?
Pat Huebner: Chicken sandwich was thirty -five cents.
43
Pat Holland: Well; I can tell you how it was done at the Vanoy Cafe. If you
were, like I was, a regular customer, you could buy a meal ticket for a week for
$2.50. Breakfast consisting of bacon, egg, toast, and coffee was $0.25; The
midday special was $0.30; the evening meal was based on what you ordered,
usually running approximately $0.50 to $0.75. A burger was 15 cents ; a
sandwich ran about 25 cents, and with the sandwich you got olives and potato
chips. We were talking depression times here - - -I paid only $10 per month room
rent, but then my salary was only $65 per month when I first came here in 1937.
Pat Huebner: Uh -huh, now when we came back here there was uh a cafeteria
uh, Hotard, Hotard's Cafeteria and Youngbloods. Best food in the whole world.
Lea Ferris: Did Hotard own that?
Pat Huebner: Yes. After he left there he put in a cafeteria way down in Main
Street. Then he put one in, you know where in Town Shire is that building that
sets by itself there. Hotard's and Youngbloods.
Lea Ferris: Did your children go to College Hill Schools?
Pat Huebner: Yes they did.
Lea Ferris: And then the junior high was, this was your middle school, junior
high, and the high school was in it too.
Mary Jane Hirsch: This building ...
Pat Huebner: This was the high school for my kids was over there that they
tore down where the new school is across the street.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Pat Holland: Yes. Everybody went to school right here on this little hill,
Mary Jane Hirsch: The high school that they had just built ...
44
Lea Ferris: Did they run buses over to College Hills or did you, were you
responsible for walking or what?
Pat Huebner: Oh, you took your kids to school. They had to live out in the
country to ride the bus.
Lea Ferris: Well most ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: I remember riding the bus in the sixth grade.
Pat Holland: My oldest son, yes my kids rode a bus over from College Hills
George Huebner: Over from College Hills ?
Pat Holland: Yes, the bus stop was at the corner of Foster and Francis. Later
on our kids got a motor scooter with a sidecar which they rode until we bought
them an old junk car after our oldest had gotten his driver's license.
Pat Huebner: That was in the days when on our school board we had a
representative from Peach Creek, from Wellborn; it was a gentlemen's
agreement that each area was represented and you only rode it in accordance
with that.
Lea Ferris: I see. That is very ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: Talking about those uh cafes, when my parents built this
house, they built servant's quarters behind the garage. And I remember the man
that cooked at that cafe lived there with his wife. I guess his wife worked at our
house, I don't remember. I do remember going back there and visiting with
them.
Pat Holland: That man was from Cameron. He was ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: Did, do you remember his name.
Pat Holland: I was trying to think of it, but I can't ...
45
Lea Ferris: Mary Jane did ya'll ride bicycles back ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes, Mary Leland and I would ride to the Campus to visit
the horse barn.
Lea Ferris: all over that ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. Oh, yes. That was our, I remember riding to school,
well when I was a little older.
Lea Ferris: All those streets over there in College Hills, then ya'll rode back and
forth.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, when I was older, I remember the year I was back in
the ninth grade, I remember that, actually before that.
Lea Ferris: Uh, one of the questions on my list was, do any of you, were any of
you here when the FDR campaign train came.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I remember ...
Lea Ferris: All right. Tell us about it.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Seeing it. I think the reason I remember it is because I have
seen pictures of it.
Lea Ferris: Are these we saw on TV when he was at A &M and they had some
kind of ramp built for him.
Pat Holland : I was not here at the time of FDR's visit, but my father -in -law told
me a story about it. The people here were in such a dither rushing about trying
to get everything prepared. My father -in -law was a section foreman for the rail
road stationed in College Station. He had a sizable crew of men working for
him, so the people in charge of the FDR visit asked him to use his crew to build
the ramp to be used for getting the president off the train. He was also
46
instructed that his men would be needed to help with moving the president onto
the ramp. They built the ramp alright but when they tried to assist the president
he rudely shoved them aside and told them to get out of his way, he did not
need them. It made Mr. Holland very angry- -- his men were just trying to do
what they had been asked to do, and he felt that the rebuff was totally uncalled
for. So he called his men together and told them to just forget it, they had more
important duties elsewhere and they got on their little railroad conveyance and
left.
Mary Jane Hirsch: We had no idea he couldn't walk.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Mary Jane Hirsch: No earthly idea, but I remember in a black car, he was in a
black car.
Lea Ferris: On campus?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. Now that was before, wasn't that when I lived on
campus?
Pat Huebner: I don't know.
Lea Ferris: Yeah, that would have been in the 30's.
George Huebner: It would have to be.
Lea Ferris: It think he arrived by plane.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes, oh everybody knew ...
Pat Huebner: I remember that same tour. I was a native of Houston and I
remember them going down the Texas Avenue and I recently saw ...
Lea Ferris: I did too. I saw that on FDR and it showed him on in this Texas
thing and it showed him at Texas A &M College. And he had some kind of ramp
47
where his car would drive up and put him a little above the people and would
talk from the car.
Pat Huebner: There was a program not long ago that showed these backups
and lengths they went to keep us from knowing of his difficulty.
Lea Ferris: Disguise that background.
Pat Huebner: In fact, he literally walked on the strength of his sons ...
Lea Ferris: Yeah, I saw that. Very interesting.
Pat Huebner: Very interesting.
Lea Ferris: But Mary Jane you remember as a child going off to see him. Do
you remember any of the early football games.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Yes. But now this is going back to when I lived on the
campus. Cause I lived across the street from Kyle Field. Some people used to
come by our house all the time.
Lea Ferris: Tell us about some of those early football games.
Pat Huebner: Only one I remember is when in '40 we lost the championship. I
remember us sitting in the stands watching ...
Lea Ferris: You weren't married at that time.
Pat Huebner: No. I was just up here. And those boys, as big as they were and
as beautiful as they were in their uniforms, they were crying like babies.
Lea Ferris: Is that right?
Pat Huebner: Nobody moved. It was like paralysis. We all thought that the
end of the world had just come.
48
Lea Ferris: What year did ya'lI marry?
Pat Huebner: '41.
Lea Ferris: In '41 and lived here then a couple of years and then you left here,
right?
Pat Huebner: He was here in school as I was. We thought it was going to work
real well for us, just me on the weekends, but then the war came that December.
So we decided that, since he was going to be gone, we would just quit school.
Lea Ferris: Uh -huh.
Pat Huebner: So we came down here and then we decided to go to Houston
and uh wait to be drafted. And uh ...
Lea Ferris: And then you came back in '40?
Pat Huebner: Came back in '45.
Lea Ferris: After the war. I see then you came back and finished school.
Pat Huebner: He finished in '46.
George Huebner: In '46, first we went back to Houston and worked there until
1950 and came back.
Lea Ferris: Uh, you were a meteorologist, in the meteorology?
George Huebner: Electrical Engineering actually.
Lea Ferris: Oh, I thought it was, okay. Electrical engineering.
George Huebner: And I finished my MS and Ph.D. in '51 and '53 and for the
most part, have been here ever since.
49
Lea Ferris: I see.
Pat Huebner: He forgot to tell me we weren't leaving.
ha -ha
Pat Holland: Well, Lea, those football games were great - -- win or lose, they
were great. I was indoctrinated with the " 39 team." They were all in and out of
our office at one time or another because their team mate Hauser was there.
One day they brought Rev over with them. She was the first Reveille - - -a little
black and white dog.
George Huebner: Yep.
Lea Ferris: The first one.
Pat Holland: Yes, she was the first one. And as she and I became acquainted,
she acted like we were kindred souls. Everytime she came over she would
come straight into my office and crawl under my desk. My desk was one of
those small typewriter desks, and there just wasn't room for both of us. She
would scratch and scratch until I couldn't stand it any more, so I'd say, " Hauser,
you have got to take this dog (I didn't know anything about Reveille then) out of
here." And they told me wherever Rev settled that's where she stayed. And
then she started coming over every day whether the guys came or not. She'd
stay under my desk until I would start getting ready to go home at 5 o'clock, and
then she would start back to the campus. She and I became very good friends.
She was a very loving and intelligent little dog. In later years when she died,
was one of the many mourners who crowded into Kyle Field to bid her farewell.
Lea Ferris: DeWare Hall, I know (inaudible)
Pat Holland: I had the oppurtunity to see the football games during '37 and '38.
I dated Charlie DeWare -- -you know DeWare Field House was named for his
father. Charlie had played for A & M, but at that time he was a coach for the
Fish Team. But we went to the varsity games and there was intense spirit there-
50
Pat Huebner: Can never be told.
Pat Holland: A spirit that we don't have now - -it just rocked Kyle Field. There
was a yell the corps did that I thought was especially nice. It was the -- -what did
they call it- - -went something like this, " We see you ladies " - --
Mary Jane Hirsch: "Ladies" was the name of it.
George Huebner: "Ladies" Right.
Lea Ferris: "Ladies ".
Pat Holland: Anyway, it was nice.
Mary Jane Hirsch: We see you ladies, we hear you ladies.
George Huebner: A lot of innuendoes in that.
Pat Holland: They would kind of get this high pitched voice.
George Huebner: A lot of innuendoes.
Pat Holland: And they would wave their hankies.
Lea Ferris: You mean the Aggies?
Pat Holland: Yeah.
Lea Ferris: All right. Now one of you tell us so we can get it on the recorder.
George Huebner: Go ahead.
Pat Holland: I can't say it, I don't know it.
Lea Ferris: Mary Jane, say it.
51
Mary Jane Hirsch: "We see you ladies. We hear you ladies. We love you
ladies." The yell leaders' signal for this yell was a hand over the breast.
ha -ha
Lea Ferris: I've never heard that.
George Huebner: They don't do it now because they have some new ladies
that might club them up beside the head now.
Pat Holland: That was one of the highlights of every game.
Lea Ferris: Okay, now back in uh, those, those early days over at College Hills.
When you went to grocery stores or shopped around a bit, did you use credit?
You know people used to, when I grew up we had to charge stuff.
Mary Jane Hirsch: My mother used to call Luke's and say, "Luke, do you have
fresh tomatoes today" and this and that. She would tell him what she wanted
and he brought it in his truck.
Pat Holland: Oh yes, make deliveries.
Lea Ferris: And put it on an account and went in and paid it at the first of every
month.
Mary Jane Hirsch: He used to put us kids in that truck and we would drive
around town. Joyce was his daughter's name.
Lea Ferris: Joyce.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Patranella. Uh, Birdwell now. Joyce Patranella Birdwell.
Lea Ferris: Oh, oh, I didn't know she grew up here.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And we would go around and sing, "Amen, amen. Amen." I
remember singing that in the back of his truck. He was wonderful.
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Pat Huebner: Now by the time we moved here as residents that was all closed,
I had to go to downtown by the, I went to Mr. Orr's down by the, railroad track.
But we charged down there, too. And then he opened the Ridgecrest and my
gracious you would have thought that the mountain had just come to Mohabid.
We only had to go down, it's where that, that auto store is now uh, ... Auto Zone.
Pat Huebner: across from the shoe, shoe cobbler place.
Lea Ferris: Okay.
Pat Huebner: By that orange Auto parts store. And that was the first really
Minimax store. The first chain store we ever had.
Lea Ferris: Mr. Orr?
Pat Huebner: Waldon Orr.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I see them from time to time.
George Huebner: I see them every once in awhile.
Pat Huebner: We saw them now long ago.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And do you remember Winn's store?
Pat Huebner: Oh yeah. It over where uh, ...
George Huebner: Mais stayed until they ...
(inaudible)
Mary Jane Hirsch: My daddy bought me a horse because uh, he was still in the
army and we had moved back to College Station, but he wasn't with us because
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he hadn't gotten out of the army yet. And so he sent my brother enough money
to buy a Cushman motor scooter. Very popular. And he sent, so I wrote and I
said, "What about me ?" So he sent me money to buy a motor scooter, but
didn't do that. So when he came back, we went and bought a horse. And I uh,
it, he built a little shed by our house there on Walton Drive. And staked it out in
the lot, vacant lot that was ours. And I used to ride that horse to Black's
Pharmacy. And I would tie it out there and get a chocolate milk shake and
cheese crackers. And I guess I did that almost everyday
(inaudible)
Lea Ferris: We talked about Black's Pharmacy. Where was it located?
Mary Jane Hirsch: It was there where that ...
Pat Huebner: It was between that bicycle shop and next to the new Texaco
station.
Lea Ferris: Okay. BCS, not Schwinn Bicycle Shop.
Pat Huebner: Same, same place.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And they had, I know uh, boys that worked in there, so uh,
bus boys.
Pat Huebner: Yeah. My boy was one of them.
Pat Holland: That was when Mr. Jones had the place.
Lea Ferris: Uh, another question on the list here, was during the war years, you
know the 40's, when I think all of you were here somewhere, did any of you
have Victory gardens?
Pat Holland: Oh, yes.
Lea Ferris: Vegetables, ever.
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Pat Holland: Yes, we did. When we moved to College Hills in 1943 we had
this big back yard, and we turned about half of it into a Victory Garden. I
remember one year we had such a pretty little garden that we were so proud of.
The people who lived next door had rabbit hutches just across the fence from
our garden, and one day a storm came in- - -blew the hutches over and rabbits
were running all over our garden, and by the time we could catch all of those
little creatures and return them to their hutches we had sustained a " crop
failure."
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, uh I have a question. I remember, and I am not sure
if this a true memory, when the war started. We would have air raid practices.
Pat Holland: Oh yes. Blackouts. Yeah.
Mary Jane Hirsch: ... put black curtains on the windows. I remember being out
in front of the house, maybe a neighbor would have on one of those W.W.I
metal hats, airborne ranger, an air ranger, he had a vest that said air ranger.
Pat Holland: That's right.
Mary Jane Hirsch: It may have been my daddy, I don't know who it was.
Pat Huebner: It probably was.
Mary Jane Hirsch: It might have been Doctor Thomas.
Pat Holland: They were in every neighborhood.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Why did we do that?
Pat Holland: Well, in case we did have a raid ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: Did we think ...
Pat Holland: ...we would know what to do.
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Pat Huebner: Pearl Harbor had so inundated us that we did think anything was
possible.
Lea Ferris: I remember my little town in Oklahoma, we had them.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Okay, so everybody ...
George Huebner: Actually, I think it was for uh to get the individuals spirit up,
because they knew ...
Lea Ferris: Civil defense of some kind.
George Huebner: ... they knew no enemy air craft, Europe or Japan was going
to fly all the way over here and do anything ....
Lea Ferris: But we didn't know but what we might be invaded someday and
they would come ...
Pat Huebner: We believed anything then. We had been so completely
shocked.
Pat Holland: Well, I was told, I don't know whether this is true or not, but I was
told that the main reason we did this, in this area, here, was because of the
military school. And if they came this far in they would certainly uh take a
military school. And I guess it would have been a good idea, because think of
how many Aggies were away in World War II.
Pat Huebner: I think they had a story for every town ...
George Huebner: Well, it was psychological thing more than anything else.
They weren't going to bomb us.
Lea Ferris: Do you remember uh, those who were ... Mary Jane, when you
came back here, you didn't live in College Park.
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Mary Jane Hirsch: College Hills.
Lea Ferris: College Hills. Did you live on Glade or did you move back, when
you and Teddy came?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Oh no, no. We lived on Culpepper Drive in Bryan and we
were labeled. Yeah, that's another thing. I remember as a child and even
today, that it was so engrained in me that we didn't like Bryan. We didn't like it
at all.
Lea Ferris: I know the feud ...
Mary Jane Hirsch: ... we hated Bryan.
Lea Ferris: Ever since that annexation thing.
Mary Jane Hirsch: That what
Pat Holland: Well ,too, it was the way the Aggies were treated in some of the
business places - - -not all but certainly some of the places in Bryan. I know I just
couldn't understand it when I first came here and dated an Aggie - -- especially if
he was wearing his senior boots, in some places in Bryan, he was treated a rung
or two less than nice. That still is hard to understand, because without the
students, their economy would have suffered much more than it did.
Lea Ferris: I think the relationship between the communities is the best its ever
been.
Pat Huebner: I do too but so far as I'm concerned its still not good. I can't get
over the fact that Bryan is using all their money to re -do their library and we are
going to build one. Think how nice it would be if we were to build one big, nice
library.
Pat Holland: No not as long as some of us
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Mary Jane Hirsch: Okay, one more thing I remember, when we'd shop we'd go
to Houston
Pat Holland: Yes, and that was the reason why, too.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And we'd stop at Jersey Village. We'd have a milk shake
and watch them milk the cows.
- I remember that (inaudible)
Mary Jane Hirsch: But to buy a pair of shoes wen went to Houston and we'd
eat at The Forum Cafeteria.
Pat Huebner: Well I remember but it doesn't seem to me to be that long when
you left College Station to go to Houston once you passed George Bush Drive,
you were on your way there was nothing else.
Lea Ferris: Well , I came here in '72 and there weren't any lights on George
Bush Drive.
Pat Huebner: Now
Lea Ferris: Well we have become quite a city. In our remaining time I see
some of you did bring pictures which you might like to share. Now, I'm
supposed to asked you if any of ya'll would be willing to leave those and let
copies be made and if so I do want your name on them.
Mary Jane Hirsch: I'll get them back?
Lea Ferris: Yeah
Mary Jane Hirsch: They probably wouldn't want to make copies of all of them.
But I brought what I could find.
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Mary Jane Hirsch: And here's a letter that I thought would be interesting, and I
wish I could find more. It's a letter from my father Colonel Bevens, it's the 16th
of September 1944, my father is in Fort Sam Houston, he's discussing renting of
the house.
Lea Ferris: Do you have your name on all those pictures? Now it said that
copies will be made and the originals will be returned unharmed.
Pat Holland: Mary Jane, you don't have your name on .. .
Lea Ferris: This is the letter from Colonel Munson to the renter at his house
saying that they will rent the house for $75 a month. They might like to make a
copy of this.
Pat Huebner: Well times have changed we left here in '61 to be gone a year
and ended up renting our house to a family for $90 a month. We were asking
$100, they just couldn't pay that much.
Mary Jane Hirsch: We rented our house for $90 it was on Culpepper.
Lea Ferris: And you rented it for how much?
Pat Huebner: $90.00
Lea Ferris: Now we just have a few closing moments. Now is there anything
that you want to get on the records Mary Jane before we go?
Mary Jane Hirsch: Well, one of my very happy moments as a child on Walton
Drive was going over to Mrs. Thomas' house. She's such a good person and a
very close friend to my mother, Mrs. Leland's House, the three families were
very close. Our family, Mrs. Thomas would read to us in that beautiful
melodious voice and she would let me look at her books. Mrs. Leland's greeting
to me always gave me a good feeling. Such wonderful people!
Lea Ferris: Was she a teacher?
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Pat Holland: In her own way, yes.
Lea Ferris: I know, but I meant.
Pat Holland: She was a wonderful person.
Mary Jane Hirsch: And Mrs. Leland is a wonderful person, so friendly and we
would have musical times. The Leeland .. .
Pat Huebner: Mrs. Leland is still living.
- She will be 100 in September.
Lea Ferris: Is that
Mary Jane Hirsch: Mary Leland's mother
Lea Ferris: Okay so you leave us with that nice memory, how about you? The
Huebners? Anything else you can add in the closing minutes?
Pat Huebner: I think we had the best of times and raised our children in the
best of times.
Lea Ferris: And the best place.
Pat Huebner: Well naturally. College Station is an ideal place. And my
children think so.
Lea Ferris: Are your children still living in this area?
Pat Huebner: Well, three of them do. One lives in Dallas. When she comes
home, she says I wish my kids could have what I had. And I wish every child
could have what we gave our kids. It was a wonderful living.
George Huebner: The actual comments I get from my son are living in this
town he couldn't get away for anything, everybody knew him.
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Pat Huebner: He's been gone for twenty years to California and has recently
come back. Every time he goes around, he says they have ruined this town, but
he loves the way it was. I said well George, we didn't have a big shopping mall.
I'd rather go to Houston any day than have it like it is now.
Lea Ferris: Okay and Pat
Pat Holland: After our time together here today reliving the birth and life of
College Station, with emphasis on College Hills, you know exactly where my
love and loyalty is. I love College Station - - -I am convinced that it is one of the
better of God's creations. I don't think there is a better place anywhere to
establish a home and raise a family. Just look at our fine school system -- -when
our kids finish A & M Consolidated they are ready for college -- -they don't need
to go to a junior college to prepare for college. We have been happy here, and
our children say that they could not have been raised in a better place; and in all
the places they have lived since leaving here, they have yet to find the kind of "
quality people" they were raised with in College Station and especially in
College Hills. I also enjoy the close proximity of the campus and all it has to
offer, amd most of all the never ending youth all around us. It has been a good
life and I have enjoyed it... If I had to do it all over again, I would still choose
College Hills in College Station.
Lea Ferris: Well I want to thank all of you for taking part in this and in closing
as relative new comer. I got here in '72, my husband was a naval officer and he
retired in the service when we came to the University. And we just think we
picked the most wonderful place in the world to retire. So all you people were
the fore runners of this wonderful place. I still think it's wonderful. I use to want
them to build a fence and not let anybody else in. Once I got here. I guess we
can't stand in the way of progress.
Mary Jane Hirsch: Can I say one more thing. My daddy was elected, he was a
councilman representing College Hills from the very beginning.
Lea Ferris: And I have one more question we didn't cover, we kind of back up
here just one moment. Mayor Langford retired after 24 years in 1966 and they
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had over 250 people came to his retirement party, were any of you there. I bet
you were all there.
Pat Holland: He lived right around the corner from me on Francis.
Pat Holland: He was mayor when City Hall was in the building where Excell
Restaurant is now located. Dr. Langford was mayor: Florence Neeley was city
secretary; Mr. Gorzycki was judge, and the only 2 city policemen that we had at
that time were Curtis Bullock and Lee Norwood.
Lea Ferris: Yeah, that's where City Hall was when I first moved here.
Lea Ferris: Well we kind of added that little PS. That was the only question I
didn't cover, thank you so much and again you will get a transcript of this and
you can add to it things that you might have forgotten to say today.
George Ferris: Are you going to take what I add, what she adds?
Lea Ferris: That's not my job, I'm done.
Pat Huebner: You've done a good job.
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