HomeMy WebLinkAboutOral History Transcript_John A. Orozco_March 2023 HERITAGE PROGRAM
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Oral History Transcript
Interviewee: John A. Orozco Interviewer: Meaghan O’Rourke Date: March 29th, 2023 Location: John A. Orozco’s Home Keywords: City of College Station Police Department; BLUE HEAT
Transcriber: Meaghan O’Rourke
*Please Note: This transcription is verbatim with the exception of a few edits for false-starts,
repetitions, pauses in speech, filler words and additional clarification.
*Disclaimer: The thoughts and views present in this transcription are not representative of the
City of College Station but solely of each recorded individual.
00:04 Meaghan O’Rourke (MO): My name is Meaghan O’Rourke [the Historical Records
Archivist for the City of College Station] and it is March 29th of 2022 [2023] and I’m here with
John Oɾozco, a retired College Station Master Police Officer, and he is here to tell me more
about his experience as a police officer and with his band BLUE HEAT.
00:28 John A. Orozco (JO): Good golden morning. Thank you for visiting and havin’ a
discussion about the past, basically. To get to the meat of everything [idiom for most important
part], BLUE HEAT was a band that I started back in the late eighties, early nineties. We
performed all through Brazos County for the Drug Abuse Resistance Education Program
[D.A.R.E.]. It’s been over twenty years since I’ve been retired so if my minds kinda foggy or
cloudy on those issues don’t hold me to it. We had adequate documentation as we’ll go through
with all the printed materials and proposals an’ all that kinda stuff.
01:23 (MO): Yes sir.
01:25 (JO): But [dental click] yeah, the BLUE HEAT band was a good thing. I thought it served
a purpose of communicating that you didn’t need to have drugs to have a good time an’ that
police officers were real people too. How that happened was when we performed as a band we
were in uniform, all the officers played in uniform, and we were identified as College Station
Police Department BLUE HEAT. The name BLUE HEAT came from a softball team that we
played at in the city.
02:03 (MO): Oh cool.
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02:04 (JO): Yeah, several of the members in the band, and myself included, played on the
softball team and if anything, we were known for – the College Station PD – was havin’ a good
softball team. We were good, all the people. We used to have tournaments in Austin an’ I just
remember the Austin one but there were other ones that we went to. We would play all weekend
long and had a good time and we won! We won. Matter of fact – well they don’t have ‘em
anymore – but they used to have trophies that we would win and put ‘em in the display case
‘cause we were that good.
02:47 (MO): That’s awesome.
02:48 (JO): Yeah, and at the time the brass [the supervisors] was playin’ with us. We had our –
at the time I was there – the major of the police department was there, the captain was there, we
had a coupla sergeants playin’ an’, y’know, then patrolmen like myself. We were real
competitive and whenever we went up against the other teams around locally, like the sheriff’s
office or Bryan PD or stuff, they would always bring in ringers [sports idiom for skilled players
who are not professionally a part of their team/organization] to come in to help them, kinda,
make them better.
03:24 (MO): Yeah [laughs].
03:25 (JO): We would compete an’ we ripped them on everything we did. We did softball, we
did basketball, we did [dental click] football. We had a thing called the “Pig Bowl” an’ [laughs]
all that stuff was competition between the team – between Bryan and College Station. So as time
went on, we had better working relationships. It wadn’t just competitive and tryna out do the
other team an’ rub it in their face like most teams do or did. We built some comradery, and those
guys knew us as they went on and they’re promoted, or they went to different assignments and
stuff. So, that’s how we started doin’ that stuff. Also, with the BLUE HEAT, we used them or
rather those that knew us because of all the athletic things we did, were happy to have us play for
Bryan school district, the middle schools over at the Civic – I think it’s the Civic Auditorium in
Bryan – whatever that’s called that they have concerts and stuff like that. They [Bryan] had their
own – at the time there was a group they called the Jump-Out Boys. Those from that era that I’m
talkin’ about will remember ‘cause while we were tellin’ kids “Don’t do drugs”, well the Jump-
Out Boys were officers who were in BDUs [Battle Dress Uniforms] and plain clothes and then
they would jump out and make arrests an’ stuff. Whenever they were in Bryan workin’ the street
an’ stuff, everybody knew that – y’know, they’d see a crowd gather and stuff like that – that’s
‘cause the Jump-Out Boys had got over there and y’know ran some people down or what have
you. So, it was a good touch, y’know, we were tryna do some good stuff. Well of course now,
D.A.R.E that was Nancy Reagan’s big push about dealin’ with drugs, y’know that kind became a
scapegoat [term for something that bears the blame for wrongdoings or is the root of irrational
hostility] – everybody kinda made fun of it and stuff. I think now that it seems like you need that
now more with all the dadgum narcotics that’s happenin’ now, goodness gracious. Yeah. So,
anyway, BLUE HEAT was a show that y’know that ‘Police were real people too’ and that we
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have feelings and we wanted to have a good time without getting’ all silly an’ stuff. There was a
positive message to the whole theme. Everything, every song that we played – there weren’t any
breaks. We played – it was about an hour and a half long show and we rehearsed for a whole
year to get tight and get right before we presented it. When we did so, it was received
overwhelmingly that it was great fun, and we all had a good time. All the band members were
confident that what we played – they were proud. They wanted to get out and play more after
that and we did. We played, like I said, for College Station and Bryan, Navasota Independent
School District, [dental click] there was another one. Anyway, in that short time frame, we
played several times. Now all that stuff came from a donation from H-E-B as sponsorship and
they provided us $5,000 to use it for PAs [Public Address system] or rather the sound system and
the lighting, a lot of the help with roadies and stuff to carry our equipment in and stuff like that.
We as band members didn’t receive anything. We did that on our own time. Of course, the police
administration wrote a proposal, and they patted it themselves, got it to 10 grand and that was for
our time and all that, but we donated our own time and equipment. So, that was somethin’.
08:13 (MO): How many years did you play?
08:16 (JO): I played a year and some change. Interestingly enough, that was the beginning of the
end. I mentioned earlier that there were some things that – programs that I was involved in, that I
created, that I was proud of, that we needed and I saw a vision to do certain things but some of
the other members in the department and stuff for, I feel, for lack or better that they were more
concerned for themselves and weren’t really interested in what was goin’ on or might even be
jealous to be honest with you. Anyway, it put a push on me that they were squeezin’ my time
that whatever I was dedicatin’ to the band, they wanted me to go right back and finish up a tour
of duty or those kind of things. It was enough. They said, “Well, you’re spendin’ too much time
with the music. You can do the music, or you can do your SORT team.” or “You can do the
music, or you can do your investigations.” And started puttin’ the squeeze on me. Well, of course
I’m gonna stay with what I have to do. The BLUE HEAT was all volunteer or whatever but they
were squeezing me out of that, so I didn’t want to fight that, so I went ahead and just reassigned
out of those positions. So, BLUE HEAT for me ended, like I said, shortly thereafter. After it was
goin’ good, and then it wasn’t.
10:05 (MO): But you started it didn’t you and you got it in order.
10:10 (JO): Correct. Yeah, I coordinated everybody’s activities and did the set list an’ played all
the instruments. The other band members had rudimentary skills. They had kinda played off and
on with other people themselves – jams and that kind of stuff, but not organized. I brought
everything together and put it in a tight package ‘cause I had experience. I’d played
professionally when I was in an’ up in high school and college and some years. I toured
professionally with a couple other bands that were – they’re kinda still around. One of ‘em was
Iron Butterfly and another one was Steppenwolf. So, those experiences I learned a lot bein’ on
the road and what have you. [Dental click]
11:07 (MO): What was your band name?
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11:08 (JO): The band name was Sweetbriar. That one was Sweetbriar. Then after that was
Albatross. So, any of locals back in the seventies would know those names because that’s what
you did. [Laughs] Y’know, if you go to see live music, you would see us because we were top
bands in the area.
11:30 (MO): That’s cool. What venues did you play at?
11:34 (JO): Oh, some of the venues that I played at were around here locally – well, let me think
– like all the stuff up in Northgate that they have now, those all were different names and stuff.
But yeah, we played some areas like there was Miranda Bar [Miranda’s] that was right next to
Duddley’s [Duddley’s Draw] or Fitzwilly’s [Fitzwilly’s Bar & Grille] now, it was called the
Alamo and then it was turned into Fitzwilly’s. I don’t know what it is now. We played at those
places. We played at the Campus Theater, but it was somethin’ else now [Campus Theater >
Shadow Canyon > Daisey Dukes > Shiner Park]. I don’t know what it is. We played at those
places and then we did a lot – matter’a fact – well I was part of that, I was part of the first
College Station Fourth of July Picnic.
12:27 (MO): Oh cool.
12:28 (JO): I got pictures of all that stuff too.
12:29 (MO): With Willie Nelson?
12:30 (JO): Well, no, this was at the City of College Station, yeah.
12:33 (MO): Okay.
12:34 (JO): We did play at the Fourth of July Picnic, yeah, with the band. Yeah, we were there.
Man, that’s joggin’ my mem’ry about all those kind of things.
12:48 (MO): What year was that?
12:50 (JO): That was in ‘74/’75 some’m like that. Yeah, some of the bands that were there at the
time that were around – there was a band called Hidden Image. They were our nemesis – to the
Sweetbriar band.
13:07 (MO): Oh [chuckles].
13:09 (JO): Yeah, we would play all the contemporary stuff. Y’know, I don’t read music. I
learned to play by ear and so I listened to a lot of records. So, favorite groups that we were into
we like ZZ Top, when they came out with their first album ‘n stuff, Foghat – let me see – course
Deep Purple those – I call ‘em narcotic bands. Yeah, all that stuff.
13:41 (MO): [Chuckles].
13:44 (JO): We had a good solid rock sound. We were a four-piece band. Then the other group
that was against us was Hidden Image. They played harder rock. They played stuff like Robin
Trower. They played stuff like Jethro Tull and some heavier stuff like that. I don’t wanna say we
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were pop rock but we weren’t as hard as the other group and that would be like listenin’ to some
of that metal stuff that kids play now to –
14:21 (MO): To more classic.
14:21 (JO): Yeah, yeah classic rock. So, we did all that. It was all fun. Matter of fact durin’ that
time, we had recorded a 45 [45 RPM record] on the Mad Yak label [chuckles].
14:35 (MO): [Chuckles].
14:37 (JO): We had regional play that we had around there so if you were anybody, you would
record a record and we recorded a record. Matter of fact, if you look on YouTube the song is
called “I’ll Get By” by Sweetbriar band.
15:00 (MO): Cool.
15:01 (JO): Unfortunately, they misspelled my name which is they put R-O-S-C-O-E.
15:08 (MO): Oh no.
15:09 (JO): Yeah, yeah. I didn’t care. We were just excited that we were on the air – “Wow,
yeah.”
15:14 (MO): Did it play on the radio station around here?
15:18 (JO): At that time, yeah, we did. It was on KORA [98.3 FM] and actually WTAW [1620
AM & 94.5 FM] at the time ‘cause they had a different format. It’s all talk radio now but back
then they were playin’, y’know, stuff and they had a thing called “Teen Time” where
highschoolers, teenagers would call in and wanna hear – “I wanna hear – ”. Yeah, so we were,
“Hey, hey, hey that’s us.’ So, anyway, that was it.
15:44 (MO): [Chuckles]
15:46 (JO): No, it was good times. We had a good time with that. So, I digress. Goin’ back to
BLUE HEAT – but after they put the squeeze on me, and I left I don’t know what happened with
‘em but then I retired in 1999. Like I said, I did maybe it was a couple years we played. Like I
said, those places I’m recalling, like I said, because they’re so vivid in my mind, I remember the
College Station Middle School, where we had the concert, that’s been demolished, the school
itself but that’s where we rehearsed and had the concert. Then the other one was at the Bryan
Civic Auditorium – I think that’s the name of it – where we had it with Bryan. Those were our
first two performances that year. Then after that, the other ones fell in, but I don’t remember
exactly the sequence of how all that stuff happened. I know I’m missin’ out a coupla other ones,
but we played all through those. Then after that, like I said, I don’t know what happened to the
band – what happened to ‘em overall. But do we know about the band members?
17:02 (MO): Yes sir. Can I ask you a question about who or what was influential in your
decision to become a police officer?
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17:10 (JO): Oh, that’s my father hundred percent. Yeah, Pops man [dental click]. Ah. [claps
hands and rubs palms together] Ah. [Dental click] I get kinda worked up right now ‘cause he’s –
they’re movin’ to Tampa, Florida. My mother had a stroke this past Thanksgivin’ and has been
in rehab and they’re gonna move her – my sister moved down to or rather came down here for
three months while she’s been in rehab and they’re gonna transport her to Tampa. My sister
retired a Federal Probation Officer. She did twenty with the federal probation and six with Naval
Investigative Service [Naval Criminal Investigative Service/NCIS] and she’s retired from that.
Anyway, so Mom’s doin’ okay, but she can’t care for herself so my sister decided she could do
that. Mom is eighty-eight – so they’re gonna transport them startin’ Friday [fraɪdi pronunciation]
and then my father [sighs] [dental click] he’s ninety-two [chuckles] [claps hands and rubs palms
together] Man, that guy’s solid as a rock. Learned so much from him. He was a Police Lieutenant
in Bryan, and he was the first Hispanic officer with Bryan PD [Police Department]. Just like so
much stuff that has caused the division and descension on the streets and in the press and all that
kinda stuff, he weathered all that. We talked about how he couldn’t write tickets, or he would
write tickets, but he’d get chastised by the brass ‘cause somebody would complain on him, said –
he said, “Hey, aren’t you Mexican?” He [Orozco’s father] said, “Yes sir.” He [man receiving
ticket] says, “Can you write me a ticket?” He [Orozco’s father] said, “Yes sir. I mean, you broke
the law.” [Man receiving ticket says,] “I don’t know ‘bout that. I’m gonna go talk to the chief
about that.” Those kind of things happened regularly, all the time. Anyway, so, but Pops is a
legend among his peers – all the people that he supervised and stuff – they still remember LT.
[Dental click] He had great discipline, structure. Man, I’m so proud of him. Mmm.
20:03 (MO): What is his name?
20:06 (JO): Lieutenant Miguel Orozco. He goes by Mike. Like I said, they know him as LT or
Lieutenant. Let’s see where I was goin’ with that – the fact that he – I had a point I was gonna
make, but I’ll come back to it in a minute. But anyway, the fact that he’s movin’ on, like I said
he’s ninety-two. Oh yeah, he was, also, a Korean War Vet [veteran]. I remember as a kid goin’ to
all their drills and stuff. He was in the reserves after – he was in the army, after he got out of the
army, he joined – well, actually, he went on the G.I. Bill, bought him a house and also, got him a
barber’s license.
21:07 (MO): Cool.
21:08 (JO): He was a barber.
21:11 (MO): In Bryan?
21:13 (JO): In Bryan. Correct, yeah. Well, he got it [his barber’s license] in Houston. I take my
hat off because I’m bald headed now. [Chuckles]
21:21 (MO): He used to cut your hair?
21:22 (JO): He cut my hair ‘til I was seventeen. At that time in the seventies, the afro was big
an’ so I had an afro.
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21:36 (MO): Cool.
21:37 (JO): And he was okay with it. He didn’t give me any grief – I mean he was right on top
of everything, man. That was another thing too, you would say, “Well, hey guy, you were in a
band. I bet you were around drugs and all that kind of stuff.” I said, “Negative. I did not.” Matter
of fact, that was one of the things that in our [Latin] culture, I mean, you are the family name.
You represent and I was. I have one sister and [dental click] when I was travelin’ on the road and
playin’ in the band an’ ‘course everybody around me that didn’t have any – well just, y’know
how – well, you don’t know – but in that time period, that was a big thing, narcotics, drugs and
all that stuff. Yeah, sure, I was offered, and I was around it, but I never partook in it because I
knew that how would it be if I’m up in Roswell, New Mexico and get arrested and it shows up in
the paper and then it’d break their hearts [his family] and mine. I never did. I was very, very
conscious about that. So, I made it a point to steer away from that stuff. Just get away from it and
stuff. Yeah, that was my deal with Pops. Anyway.
23:06 (MO): You grew up in Bryan?
23:09 (JO): I grew up in Bryan. Well, that’s another things too. Pops and Mom, I don’t know
how they did it, but I was sheltered, basically. I think about it because I went to a parochial
school, Saint Joseph Catholic School, right there off of William Joel Bryan from whenever – that
was before they had [dental click] a head start program. That was a government program where
they had to help underprivileged kids and all that kind of stuff. We were on the west side of town
where we grew up – where I grew up through my freshman year in high school. I went to Saint
Joseph’s Catholic School from grades from when I entered ‘til they only went to the eighth
grade. I am thankful for the religious background. [Clap hands together] Thank you Lord
[chuckles]. It gives me strength when I need it. Also, I was an athlete. I was a good athlete
lookin’ back on it. I had a good coach. His name was Lawrence Pavlas. His son was named
Lance Pavlas [former Texas A&M football quarterback]. He played for Texas A&M at the same
time Bucky Richardson [John “Bucky” Powell Richardson, former Texas A&M football
quarterback] did. Lance Pavlas was ‘bout six-three. He was the perfect pocket back pasture, man.
He would drop-back and what have you. Then that Bucky Richardson guy, the coach – I think it
was Slocum was the coach – Bucky Richardson came in and they needed to do somethin’.
Anyway, Richardson wadn’t so much of a pasture but he had attitude and grit an’ so e’rybody
liked that more, y’know, ‘cause he was kinda like a Johnny Manziel [Johnathan Paul Manziel,
former Texas A&M football quarterback] just kinda the hot dog, did stuff an’ whatever. I dunno
what he’s doin’ now but Lance was the classic drop-back pas[ture] like Joe Montana [Joseph
Clifford Montana Jr., former National Football League quarterback] and all those guys, just,
y’know, had that.
25:38 (MO): What sport did you play?
25:40 (JO): I played e’rything, well, I take it back. The ones that I excelled at was football.
When I was at football, I lettered in all four seasons – from Saint Joseph’s – I started playin’
when I was in the fourth grade. Went through there – went through that – and like I was goin’
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back to my coach from Saint Joseph. He was a good punter and place kicker, so I picked that up.
I punted and place kicked for the team from then all the way through high school. I played
runnin’ back – I was quick. Some of my aspirations back in the sixties was to be on the Olympic
team. I wanted to be an Olympian. Bob Hayes [Robert Lee Hayes, 1964 Olympic gold medalist
and Super Bowl VI champion] was my idol at the time. He was the fastest man in the world an’
all that stuff. I wanted to do all that. I was fast, but I wadn’t Olympic fast. I did have some moves
an' I wasn’t that big but just like anything says size is in the heart. I could deliver a lick on
people that would – you see those rams that butt heads –
27:05 (MO): Mhmm.
27:06 (JO): Yeah, that was me. I broke a coupla helmets.
27:08 (MO): Oh wow.
27:10 (JO): ‘Cause we could do that back then.
27:12 (MO): [Laughs]
27:13 (JO): You could put your head down and anybody that knows the stuff about football
says, “Did ya put your hat on him?” I said, “You bet, man.” Boy, I tell you they were some good
times. [Laughs] I’m surprised I don’t have a concussion from all that stuff. That’s prolly why I’m
goofy anyway.
27:29 (MO): [Laughs]
27:30 (JO): All those things happened, [dental click] after I got out of Saint Joseph, I went, at
that time, matter of fact that was a turbulent time because integration was just now happening in
Bryan in the seventies. They had built Bryan High School proper and everybody that was at the
middle schools, the junior highs went to Stephen F. Austin. Stephen F. Austin used to be the
main high school, but then they built Bryan High an’ so they took the juniors and seniors and put
them at Bryan High and the freshmen class – I guess we were freshmen – yeah freshmen and
sophomores were at Bryan High. Of course, then they had teams too. Where was I goin’ with
that, I wanted to make a point about the segregation ‘n stuff. Oh yeah, e’rybody that went to
ninth and tenth grade – the freshman and sophomore people – came from Neal [Neal Elementary
School], which is over there in Bryan on the west side, Lamar Junior High, Anson Jones
[Elementary School] [dental click] and I’m thinkin’ of some other one, but those were the main
junior highs that they went to. So, dependin’ on your age and the class, that’s where you went –
you went to Stephen F. Austin or Bryan High. So, when I went out of Saint Joseph, I mean, there
was only like eighteen kids in our graduating class.
29:38 (MO): Oh wow.
29:39 (JO): Yeah, and only confidence that I had about anything was what I’d learned from my
coach. Like I said, he was a great coach to me. Man, he showed me how to move, run and do all
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that kind of stuff. I had the natural ability, and I learned the aptitude. After that, like I said, I was
[a] runnin’ back. I mean I was built – I was prolly a hundred-sixty-five pounds in the eighth
grade, so that’s about where you wanna be to do somethin’ – and I was fast, very quick too and
elusive. Some other runnin’ backs that I enjoyed were like Calvin Hill [former National Football
League running back]. He used to play for the Cowboys [Dallas Cowboys, National Football
League Team] and whenever there would be a stack he would jump over the pile and stuff like
that, so I used to do that.
30:36 (MO): [Chuckles]
30:39 (JO): We were undefeated one season when I was in the seventh grade, yeah, and we
played in the Greater Houston area for parochial schools. They have a name for it; I don’t recall
what it was called. I played against Gary Kubiak [former National Football League coach] at
Saint Pius [St. Pius X High School]. Yeah, that era, so our teams, y’know, met each other.
Anyway, like I said, I was a good athlete. When I [dental click] got out of Stephen F. Austin
goin’ into my junior year the coaches, which at that time they had just hired coaches Merrill
Green, which they named the stadium after, a guy named Henry Colwell, a guy named Bill
Moore, another guy – Mmm it’s on the tip of my tongue, I can’t recall that – but those guys right
there [dental click] Coach Green and his crew – we would leave Bryan High for spring drills and
stuff and go practice with varsity from being a sophomore and go practice with varsity an’ stuff.
I did pretty good.
32:27 (MO): That’s a big deal.
32:28 (JO): Yeah, it was such that they wrote me up in Texas Football.
32:34 (MO): Cool.
32:35 (JO): Yeah, as a runnin’ back. They got my mug in there tryin’ to be all tough.
32:40 (MO): [Laughs]
32:41 (JO): The guys, y’know, they put a little snip-it in there – it was when they go through in
the back of the high school news of people that are up and coming and what to do. They [Texas
Football] say, “[indiscernible] Orozco, runnin’ back, can do this and do that” and what have you,
whatever. It’s interestin’ enough, in that same edition – I have it, but I can’t put my hands on it
right this instance – I was readin’ the article, again, and on the next page there’s a write up about
this guy from Tyler, Texas named Earl Campbell [Earl Christian Campbell, former National
Football League running back]. Yeah. So, I said, “Hey, we were writtin’ up in the same – for the
same time period about the same stuff.”
33:32 (MO): Yeah.
33:34 (JO): He was a – well, we know his history and all that stuff. Anyway, that was part of
that. Anyway, so, fast-forward through football so [dental click] we’re comin’ into after the
spring drills and everything and after that off-season, we were workin’ and they had us doin’
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some drills where we were doin’ some game – hold’n your ankle out behind your back and
hoppin’ around on one leg. Basically, knockin’ each other off the mat and stuff like that. The guy
that I was with – cheap, man. Anyway, he ducked, and I ran right into the wall and separated my
shoulder.
34:27 (MO): Oh my gosh.
34:28 (JO): Yeah, so I was out, had separated my shoulder, so that was a big deal and so I did
that. Started recovery to come back an’ it was tough. I didn’t get the same playin’ time that I
woulda got ‘cause I was injured but I made it back. [Dental click] That started the beginnin’ of
the end of football. I mean, I played football, I say, all my life from the fourth grade up to then.
That’s when I started – my dad, like I said once again I appreciate him – I was in a sling for three
or four months because I had pins in my shoulder, and I couldn’t do anything and I didn’t really
care to read a lot [laughs] but anyway.
35:26 (MO): [Laughs]
35:27 (JO): I was just listenin’ to music and carryin’ on like that. Anyway, he [Orozco’s father]
bought me a guitar. That fit right under my arm, and man, I tell you what – little Mel Bay record
to listen to tune the guitar and all that stuff. I learned and next thing you know man, [strumming
motion] I’m playing, I’m figurin’ stuff out. Then I had a neighbor, that lived right behind us. His
name was Glenn Joyce, and his father was Lloyd Joyce, who was the mayor of Bryan at that
time. So, we were neighborhood friends and what have you. Anyway, he’d like to ride a
unicycle. I remember that was always [goofy].
36:13 (MO): [Laughs]
36:14 (JO): I’d ride my bike too, but I hadn’t done a unicycle. I made it in the summertime – Oh
yeah – well, the point I’m getting’ to, that summertime I made it up to there was one music store
in town that I could get to it was called H&H Music [H&H Music Co.] and it was right there on
Villa Maria an’ right across from Sul Ross school [Ross Elementary School] and that little
shopping center that’s where they had a music store. So, I wanted to learn how to play but I
couldn’t afford it and like a said Dad just, he was busy workin’ with the PD and cuttin’ hair ‘n
stuff. Oh yeah, when he was cuttin’ hair – he cut hair for fifty years at the same place, Razor’s
Edge.
37:08 (MO): That’s awesome.
37:09 (JO): All those guys that he had – he had two other guys that worked with him – that’s
when I figured, man, Dad was a hard worker and Mom too. He would do his assignments on
patrol ‘n stuff, sergeant for a while, ‘course he made lieutenant and then he would come and
days-off or what have you then he’d be at the Razor’s Edge over there on Stillmeadow [Drive]
getting’ his hair cut and stuff, ‘course I’d get my hair cut there too. I would dust ‘n sweep up
after ‘em and stuff like that. So, it was a family business that he did. [Dental click] Where was I
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goin’ with that – we were over at H&H Music, we did that. Oh heck, I shoulda stayed with what
I was doin’.
38:07 (MO): You’re talking about biking over to H&H Music, but you couldn’t –
38:11 (JO): Oh yeah, at H&H Music I couldn’t afford any lessons so how you did it back then is
that you just go in there an’ tryda play somethin’ – pick up a guitar, y’know, an’ man, they were
very very very strict. I mean, I guess they knew who players were or not and I was just a high
school punk kid with a little afro startin’ to grow out. [Laughs]
38:43 (MO): [Chuckles]
38:44 (JO): Tryin’ to play, so, “Hey, hey, hey” y’know, “Hey guy” y’know, “You gonna buy
that?” That kind of deal. I’d say, “No.” But I would be watchin’ other guys that were playin’ and
tried to see how they’d do it, and they’d see me and then they’d turn their back on me [turns
around].
38:59 (MO): What?
39:00 (JO): Yeah, so they don’t – I mean back then –
39:02 (MO): Like, “This is my style. You can’t steal it.” [Laughs].
39:04 (JO): Yeah, they would shield themselves so you couldn’t play ‘cause that’s how – now
you have YouTube, then you can learn how to do everything. Back then, you had to earn it. Like
I was sayin’ earlier that listen to a lotta records. I listened to a lotta records to figure out how’da
play that stuff an’ just learn the rudiments an’ what have you an’ whatever I could pick up after
watchin’ somebody or either run into people that played and we talked about that and gettin’
together and what have you and all that stuff happened. We played for parties an’ y’know
anywhere that I could play for stuff that’s the way it went and usually it was just for – didn’t get
paid for any of that stuff early on. We’re doin’ that, we did that – I was tryna get to before I got
to it with the band. Oh football, yeah, in football I was a place kicker and that was one thing too I
had to – yeah I got some pictures I’ll show you ‘bout that too that I had a special – back then
e’rybody kicked straight like if you watch some of the old NFL [National Football League] films
everything was forward kick with your toe as opposed to soccer-style [kick at an angle with side
of foot]. I had a special shoe. It had a flat end, and it was elevated a little bit. It was designed just
for place kickin’. So, I did that. I hadn’t checked in a while, but I was record holder for most
points after – PATs [points after touchdown] during my career at Bryan High ‘cause, like I said,
I kicked for my whole career all the way ‘til I graduated. It was tough but [coughs] I enjoyed it. I
remember that pretty good. Matter’a fact we went to the playoffs one year – bi-district – and we
had a guy, now he’s a pretty big shot in Bryan – and he’ll remember it too – you tell Harry
Francis. We played baseball together too – some select leagues that we knew. Anyway, we were
playin’ in Baylor Stadium, and they decided, again, to put the squeeze on me and once again,
they’re tryin’ somethin’ new. I don’t know, I just gotta go with the flow, just there and do my
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thing ‘cause I’ve always been consistent and do my thing. Anyway, Harry Francis – they put him
in there a couple times. We were behind and he couldn’t make it, so they put me in. Man, it was
cold, freezin’, but anyway, I kicked a forty-three yarder.
42:27 (MO): Wow.
42:28 (JO): Yeah, and so that was a saving grace.
42:31 (MO): That’s impressive.
42:32 (JO): Yeah, so, anyway, did that. [clears throat]
42:37 (MO): So, what led to you joining the police force and did you go to a police academy?
42:44 (JO): You bet! I’m sorry. Yes, the police academy was after [dental click] when I
graduated, I went to Blinn. We called that Blinn-dergarten back then.
43:02 (MO): Blinn-dergarten? Oh, like kindergarten [laughs].
43:04 (JO): Yeah [laughs]. I graduated from there too. So, that’s what you did if you didn’t have
the grades or the finances to go any further than that. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do,
but I was playin’ in a band, and we were startin’ tour and stuff. So, I had to decide, well, am I
gonna do school or am I gonna do a band and what have you and what have you. So, anyway, I
was with the band and the band ended up breakin’ up and that’s when I decided, well, I gotta do
somethin’, y’know. I hadn’t worked a lot of odd jobs. I had been a lifeguard when I was younger,
y’know, a teenager and what have you. Been a ranch hand, worked on a ranch. I was a student
worker out off of FM 50 at A&M dealin’ with countin’ boll-weevils. Y’know, did all kinds of
stuff. Y’know just tryna find my way, make a few bucks and what have you. Playin’ music and
all that stuff and it just wadn’t workin’ out. Then [dental click] I had to make a decision. I said,
well, heck, let me see if I can work for police. I didn’t want to get to far away ‘cause I didn’t
know, y’know, if I was tryna go to work at a large department or something like that. I didn’t
feel that –from what I knew of Bryan PD, I knew that. I knew all the guys and stuff – that’s
another thing that I feel that was kinda slighted a little bit. When I didn’t make application to
Bryan, they said no go – Nepotism. I said, man. There were a coupla guys that were workin’ as
officers right then. One of ‘em was a [detective], another one was –
45:15 (MO): That were family?
45:20 (JO): Yeah, they were brothers, yeah.
45:21 (MO): Okay.
45:23 (JO): I’m sorry, yeah. Yes, it just didn’t seem right, so then that’s where I went to College
Station and work with them. They selected me, and then I started from there in 1979. So, that’s
what started that. So, using my understanding of law enforcement and stuff, one of the things
they did then, thank goodness, was we had to go to the police academy. Now, gosh, it might be I
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don’t know how many weeks, but it’s multiple weeks. Anyway, it was only two-hundred and
forty hours.
46:07 (MO): Oh.
46:08 (JO): [Laughs] yeah, so that was somethin’. It was out there – now it’s called the RELLIS
campus – but that’s where the training was.
46:17 (MO): Okay, they still have some training out there, yeah.
46:19 (JO): Yeah, well, yeah, those structures are still there. I was in one of those. I mean, I
don’t remember what class I was in. One of the guys that was the instructor, was a legend. His
name was Bill Cooksey, and he was one of those guys who was like a Texas Ranger and just had
an aura about him.
46:45 (MO): [Laughs] Did he have a handlebar mustache?
46:56 (JO): Handlebar mustache –
46:47 (MO): Did he have a – [chuckles] like the mustache to go with it?
47:01 (JO): Yeah, that’s what I’m tryna [shuffling noise] – We’re gonna find out right now. Oh
I’m sorry. [Flips through photo album to find a picture of Bill Cooksey]
47:11 (MO): No, you’re good.
47:12 (JO): Here he is. [Shows a picture of Bill Cooksey]
47:14 (MO): Nope. Nope, but I could see it with, y’know, the hat. I could see him with the hat.
47:18 (JO): Right? That’s him. Yeah. Anyway, that’s that part. We’ll look through that [the
photo album] later. Did the police training and then started. They put me on the first shift, I
believe, and took off from there. Then, the rest is, they say, is history. [Chuckles]
47:50 (MO): What did you start – what position did you start in?
47:53 (JO): Patrolman. Yeah, back then, they – that’s all you did is start at patrolman – back in
1979, January 1st. Yeah, I think that’s what it is.
48:06 (MO): Did – I’m sorry go ahead.
48:07 (JO): Yeah, but that’s what it was an’ then after that, y’know, I got into different positions
laterally, and I created a bunch of positions for myself that the PD didn’t have, which is – one of
the things that I mentioned early on is how the PD grew. We had a growth spurt – we had a
police chief at the time that – his name was Marvin Bird – and the police department was more
kinda like Andy Griffith [in reference to The Andy Griffith Show]. Everybody knew everybody
and the whole town knew them, and you liked ‘em or you didn’t like ‘em and everybody knew
everybody’s business and that kind of deal. So, that’s kinda the way we were operating at that
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time. As we grew, then, of course, the department had growin’ pains and we needed to be more
professional. Some of the guys were and some of ‘em weren’t [chuckles]. As we move through
the – as my career went the way it went, I was part of a lot of programs that is better than it was
when I left it but did not get recognized as such, but I have [pats hand down on folder of
documents] adequate documentation for all the programs that I was a part of and the things that I
did. I’m proud of those things. Those that choose to differ of that stuff, well [pats hand down on
folder of documents] there it is right there. Those that know, know, and of course they have
different interpretations of how everything unfolded but just like any dynamic in a group, you’re
gonna have leaders and followers and you’re gonna have people that do a lot of talkin’ and all
that kind of – snipin’ – and that kind of stuff. That was rampant. Goodness gracious. That was
the saddest part of College PD, fallin’ to that. A lot of the people did that. They, y’kow, could
not – I mean, I guess they did, now they got over that stuff – because you have to have some
standards [chuckles] and those standards need to be met. We had some people that didn’t have
that same mentality. They just liked to do it the old way – “Because I said so” – that kind of deal.
Yeah, a lot of that happened, y’know.
51:02 (MO): What programs did you implement?
51:04 (JO): Oh goodness, well, let’s see, to begin with like BLUE HEAT, the band, I mean that
came out of a concept from – I was trainin’ to be a – well, I think I was in recruiting and training
at the time. I don’t remember how I got involved in it, but it started to get to the D.A.R.E. stuff
because we had a coupla resource officers when the program was just started. The College
Station Middle School hired a group from San Antonio called ALAMO CITY HEAT. They did
what we were doin’ there, where they played in uniform, and they had all this patterns that was
goin’ on, kids are havin’ a great time. I said, “Man, we can do that!” I said, “Yeah, man.”
Nobody else was on-board about that ‘cause I didn’t talk to anybody else ‘bout that until after
everything cleared an’ the dust settled. I talked to the guys and asked them ‘about whatya’ll do,
how’d ya’ll do that? That’s how I learned about them being sponsored by H-E-B, all that kind of
stuff. Man, I could do that. Alright, so, fast forward to where we are and what you’ll see on the
videos that I mentioned here, they decided, “Yeah, that’s a good idea.”. They were kinda –
‘cause police do not have that – I mean, they’re very direct an’ understanding [understandable]
dealin’ with a lot of statistics and tactics an’ all that kind of stuff as opposed to what are we there
for, y’know, and what’s the point. So, “Protect and Serve”, okay, who you protecting and
serving? How’re you gonna do that? What can you do to bridge better for your community and
make it better? How’s that gonna unfold? I saw that BLUE HEAT as a vehicle to do that.
Workin’ with the family and the kids and the teachers, well man, that’s a win-win once we get in
there. So, I sold them on the concept an’ stuff. Then, we talked about how it would unfold an’
then had to do auditions for all the guys. The department put up a notice on the board, y’know,
“Hey, we’re gonna start a police band an’ stuff” Y’know, a lot of the people say, “’Rozco, ain’t
nobody wanna do that” – y’know that kind of deal, but that’s how people were.
53:27 (MO): Then people did [want to be in the band].
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53:59 (JO): Yeah, that’s right. Anyway, so when a coupla the guys that were interested or had
been playin’ and I was playin’ with some other bands – I’ve played in about forty bands.
54:18 (MO): Wow.
54:19 (JO): From classic rock to country. I play everything except brass and woodwinds – well
actually, I play woodwind, I play harmonica. Play the fiddle in a country band, play guitar in the
classic rock bands. The country bands that were big at the time, we played a bunch of stuff –
Hall of Fame was a big place, another one they had Lakeview Club, and all those. Played with a
bunch of bands out that way. Anyway, I knew a lot of musicians, so it was easy for me to reach
out an’ ask these guys, “Hey I need – I’m tryna put together a PA system to do this at the other”
– that was until we got funding from H-E-B – and they were able to handle that. They could put
me – I had connections and knew people and that allowed me to talk to the guys about that and
have team meetings about that. It was a struggle until the brass got involved. That’s when we had
our bass player, our Major [Deputy Inspector] Mason Newton. He was a good sport. He’s a good
guy. When he got on board, that “Yeah, I’d like to play.” Well heck, everythin’ else fell into line
then ‘cause now he ran interference an’ stuff – he was able to talk to the Chief an’ stuff. Matter’a
fact the proposal he presented was the points that I had made. I woulda written it up but y’know
he [pats chest] wants to make sure e’rybody’s got their say in it, what have you. Anyway –
56:12 (MO): How many auditions did you have?
56:17 (JO): Oh, it was case by case – how many officers we had at the time – probably about
fifty. Not everyone participated but some of ‘em did. That was it too, some of ‘em had some
skills an’ stuff but then didn’t have the experience and they were intimidated that they’d have to
be on stage and y’know they just weren’t comfortable. They’d, “I sing around the house. I sing at
home” an’ “Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Well, good. Well, here, we’re gonna play somethin’
and see how you feel about singing this.” They’d do it an’ they’d say, “Okay, well, we appreciate
you man, alright. So, next.” That kind of deal. Jus’ kinda worked it out. Then a couple of ‘em
came up and played and sang but I’d ask ‘em “Anybody have any interest in music and can do
your thang an’ all that kinda stuff” And those that came forward said, “Yeah, I played drums. I
played in a country band here coupla years ago.” So on and so forth. So, those guys –
57:21 (MO): Had band experience.
57:22 (JO): Yeah, that had exper –, yeah.
57:23 (MO): Not just solo like on the side.
57:25 (JO): Right, yeah, not just jammin’ around for fun an’ stuff like that. That’s the other
thing too, e’rybody all of ‘em that started an’ then didn’t end up playin’ with the band used that
excuse, “Well, I don’t have the time.” or y’know, “I just, I don’t like that.” or whatever. Yeah, all
that kind of stuff.
57:47 (MO): Were you the only judge?
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57:48 (JO): What’s that?
57:49 (MO): Were you the only judge at the auditions or were there other people making
decisions?
57:55 (JO): Yeah, well, it was – well, I guess I was. I mean, I was the only one ‘cause they
didn’t know what they were doin, I mean, ‘cause I was askin’ them – I would demonstrate and
I’d play, “Hey, we’re gonna play – try this.” So, I’d play a riff an’ stuff like that and they would
do like “Ah, I can’t do that. Uhhh [struggling], that’s kind of hard.”
58:18 (MO): [Laughs]
58:19 (JO): “Alright. Well, look if you could practice this an’ do this part like that.” An’ so, “I’ll
try.” They’d come back again, and they got better and they’d say, “Yeah, okay.” “Well, what
were tryna do guys –” an’, y’know, so on and so forth. Then we’d play and jam, y’know, just bit
and pieces. It wadn’t a formal thing, where you come in audition, “Let me see your resume an’
stuff”. No, it wadn’t any of that. It was just word of mouth and just the feel and how did it feel.
58:47 (MO): Okay.
58:47 (JO): And what was the comradery about stuff ‘cause there was a coupla guys in there
that they had equipment and they played on their own, but man, they did not wanna – they were
not conducive to the environment.
59:07 (MO): A little stage fright?
59:09 (JO): Well, I never knew ‘cause they never played out to me like that. I mean they would
say, “Yeah, well –” and we’d have a jam and they’d all kinda get back there an’ stuff. Then, I’d
start playin’ – playin’-playin’ some’m as opposed to their chord and they’d try to strum harder
and then I’d, y’know, like, y’know, you got little band queues that you look at each other,
y’know, “Go.” They’re like –
59:38 (MO): It didn’t have the rhythm that you were looking for.
59:39 (JO): Yeah, they didn’t have the experience. I mean, they reached their level right there.
59:47 (MO): Yeah.
59:48 (JO): I didn’t fault anybody on it jus’ the way it was.
59:52 (MO): Who were the original band members?
59:54 (JO): The original one, beside myself, was Mason Newton, who was on bass, then we had
Bubba Sayers was on drums, and then we had Volie Schultea that was on guitar and keyboards
and Gary Bishop, who was on vocals and tambourine. Actually, everybody had vocals. That’s
one thing I wanted everybody to be able to sing. So, they would have – I didn’t want to carry the
whole show myself so, y’know, these guys would sing country, these guys would sing a little
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rock, an’ these guys would – y’know. I could hear some of ‘em could harmonize an’ all that
stuff. So, worked all those details out an’ stuff.
1:00:43 (MO): What was your setlist of songs that you played?
1:00:45 (JO): Well, that’s – you have to review that ‘cause I don’t recall. The ones that come to
mind [indiscernible] are “Bad Boys” [by Inner Circle and the opening theme song for the
television program, COPS]. We opened the show with “The Heat Is On” by Glenn Frey, yeah. I
remember those two songs, but again, that’s – Oh, well, you heard “Takin’ Care Of Business”
[by Bachman–Turner Overdrive].
1:01:07 (MO): Yes sir.
1:01:08 (JO): Yeah, that was one of ‘em. So, whatever was popular at the time that the general
population would know.
1:01:15 (MO): Yes sir, they could sing along.
1:01:16 (JO): Right, right. Yeah, that’s where we were going. I was tryna keep everybody –
keep it as simple as possible and not make it too boring or what have you. As you saw what you
saw, they were really into it just from the volume, y’know, just the little frills, the extras, the fact
that there was a lead in the guitar part or when they [chuckles] – we had one guy, one of our
[laughs] I don’t want to name his name, but he thought he was Garth Brooks.
1:02:02 (MO): Oh. [Laughs]
1:02:04 (JO): I shouldn’t say that, but anyway. Boy, he wore a hat an’ everything and boy.
Yeah, he would do Garth Brooks stuff. We’d just play it and follow along and just like, “Maaan,
uhhh, tomorrow never comes, hmm hmm hmm.”
1:02:29 (MO): You threw it in to –
1:02:33 (JO): What’s that?
1:02:32 (MO): Someone likes country music.
1:02:33 (JO): Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, Garth Brooks was big at the time.
1:02:39 (MO): Yeah.
1:02:39 (JO): Man, it was big. Matter’a fact I went to a concert of his over at the Reed [Texas
A&M University’s Reed Arena] but yeah, it was big. He [BLUE HEAT band member] was all
about that and oh, and George Strait. Oh yeah that, man, those two guys phew [shwoo] man. So,
everything they wanted to do THAT stuff all the time an’ had to pull ‘em back a little bit, “Hey,
we’re playin for kids man." Y'know, and they [the kids] don’t get it. They don’t know about love
and all that stuff or drinkin’ and stuff. You gotta –
1:03:11 (MO): [Laughs] You gotta make it age appropriate [laughs].
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1:03:13 (JO): Yeah, exactly. So, we did that, but we worked it all out. Like I said, when you see
the video and how we addressed the crowd and massaged them to push them towards that. Like I
said, you could feel the build-up to “Takin’ Care Of Business” because yeah.
1:03:31 (MO): Yeah, because the kids were screaming. They were very excited. So, did you
play just for CSISD, just the schools in the area? Or did you play –
1:03:41 (JO): Well, yeah, that’s what I was sayin’. We played for the schools that requested us
to do that and, once again, we had to get approval through the brass. That’s where Mason
Newton, Major Mason Newton, was able to run interference on some stuff, when we got a
request to play Navasota. So, we played out there.
1:04:04 (MO): Did you play for city events or at an event?
1:04:07 (JO): Yeah, we did. We played – those were all for the school districts that we played –
but outside of that we did play for some city events. We had a coupla other people that didn’t
want to be a part of BLUE HEAT because they didn’t have the time or whatever but then when
they didn’t have to wear a uniform then oh man, they’re out there havin’ a good time now. I
don’t remember what we called ourselves, but it wasn’t BLUE HEAT, but we played for some
functions at Central Park [Stephen C. Beachy Central Park]. We played for some functions – Oh
we played at the Hall of Fame [Texas Hall of Fame, night club in Bryan, Texas] for a banquet or
a city event –
1:05:02 (MO): A ceremony or something?
1:05:03 (JO): No, it was a –
1:05:06 (MO): Picnic?
1:05:06 (JO): Picnic or some sort like that, yeah. Of course, we played country stuff so. I played
my fiddle and all that kind of stuff.
1:05:19 (MO): Cool. But you didn’t wear your uniform?
1:05:20 (JO): No, no, yeah. We’re in plain clothes. That’s what I was sayin, those were some
other events that we did for the city. We didn’t get paid for any of that stuff. That was just our
own time because we wanted to. Like I said, we had different band members with us back then. I
mean – I say back then – that wanted to play with that not with BLUE HEAT.
1:05:49 (MO): So, two city bands.
1:05:50 (JO): Uhhh, yeah. They were two independent bands but those guys [dental click] I
don’t know what the deal was with e’rybody. It just worked out that they wanted to play and then
they would ask me, “Hey man, ‘Rozco, you wanna play with us?” I’d go, “Sure, y’know. What
do we got? I don’t mind.” ‘Cause I like to play and it was gonna be fun and I knew I could play.
I like to play those big events like that.
1:06:24 (MO): Yes sir.
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1:06:25 (JO): So, that’s where they did that. They liked it too ‘cause they knew that I was gonna
lead them and put them together. It turned out good. Ohh goodness.
1:06:37 (MO): Did you ever make up any songs – original songs?
1:06:39 (JO): No, not with those guys, no. Most of the stuff were all covers. I mean the only
original stuff I did was when I was playin’ with other bands on the road and all that kind of stuff
and the records that I have and what have you.
1:06:52 (MO): What was your favorite song to play?
1:06:55 (JO): [Dental click] That’s interesting. I’ve never really given that kind of thought.
Well, I’ve thought about it, but I didn’t put it down like – Man, that’s, I like to play that.
01:07:15 (MO): Yeah. You can name a couple too.
01:07:17 (JO): [Dental click] Well, I guess, I song that I like to play – me, personally – Allman
Brothers "One Way Out” [The Allman Brothers Band]. I like that and [Dental click] “Just Got
Paid” by ZZ Top.
1:07:32 (MO): Yeah [chuckles].
1:07:34 (JO): Then, as far as country, “Lookin’ for Love” [by Johnny Lee]. That’s where my
wife and I we started datin’ on that song an’ stuff.
1:07:54 (MO): Oh really? [Chuckles]
1:07:53 (JO): Yeah, yeah that was back in the eighties.
[Laughter]
1:08:00 (JO): Yeah, we’ve been together forty-one years.
1:08:02 (MO): Do you sing that song?
1:08:04 (JO): Do I sing it to her?
1:08:04 (MO): Yeah.
1:08:05 (JO): Occasionally, I have not lately but yeah.
1:08:08 (MO): I sing that to my fiancé [laughs].
1:08:10 (JO): Do you? Yeah.
1:08:10 (MO): I do, yeah [laughs], but I did it more like kind of teasing [laughs].
1:08:16 (JO): Then, I guess the other one would be [dental click] aw, “Always and Forever” by
Heatwave that’s a soul song and that was our wedding song we had so anyway.
1:08:30 (MO): Did you get married here in Bryan?
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1:08:33 (JO): Yeah, yeah in College Station.
1:08:35 (MO): How’d you meet her?
1:08:38 (JO): When I was workin’ on duty. I was [dental click] got a call that there was a kid
runnin’ around runnin’ down people on a moped.
1:08:49 (MO): Oh [chuckles].
1:08:50 (JO): I said, what in the heck? So, I get there and there’s a guy – a kid – big, tall, lanky
high school kid [makes a speeding motor vehicle noise] goes over to Todd Trail [street in
College Station, Texas]. He sees me an’ he gets after it [indiscernible] I pull up there and he runs
inside the door. I said, “Man.” So, I go up there and I hear the back door slam. I said, “Aw,
man.” So, I bang on the door and door opens up. Now, you wouldn’t know anything about this
but to other people they might. There was a sitcom that came out in the seventies called Love
American Style and the opening credits show a heart and explosion and fireworks and all that
kind of stuff. That’s what I saw when I saw her when she –
1:09:46 (MO): Oh yeah? [Chuckles]
1:09:47 (JO): Yeah. So, that’s like that. She had just woken up from a nap. She was a lifeguard
at Bee Creek. She said, “Can I help you?” “Yes,” I said, “I’m looking for whatever there, we got
a call.” I explained the whole situation. She says, “Oh, that’s my brother.” I said, “Well, I need to
talk to him.” [indiscernible] “Well, I don’t know where he is.” [indiscernible] was like, “I think
he went outside.” “Yeah, well, if he did, I need to see him again” [John Orozco]. She looked
young too. I said, “How old are you? What’s your date of birth?” So, she gave her information.
Okay, so we’re cool.
[Chuckles]
1:10:28 (JO): Anyway, so I said, “Well, I’m gonna need to talk to the parent.” She said, “My
mother’s not here.” I said, “Okay. Well [dental click] if we can work that out.” I said, “Yeah”
what have you. So, I went on an’ it got to be – I went through the whole shift thinkin’ about her,
but, y’know, answerin’ my calls and everythin’. This happened around ten o’clock. Y’know,
here it is two o’clock now and I’m getting off. So, I go ahead and get off. Then, I’m thinkin’,
man, [dental click] this is kinda that – I had that thought, “He who hesitates is lost” [idiom and
proverbial phrase]. I was like, hmm. So, I called, and the mother answered. I introduced me and
told her what I was doin’ and I wanted to find out about the boy. She said, “Oh, yeah, okay.”
“Well, he did this, an’ did that, whatever.” She said, “Is he in trouble an’ stuff?” I said, “Well,
we got a complaint an’ I need to find out what’s goin’ on. I’ll check with the person that made
the complaint and they could tell me if they felt threatened or they did any damage to your place”
or whatever. Y’know, she was like, “Well, whatever” y’know. She didn’t care just whatever. I
said, “What about the young lady? Do you know what her status is?”
1:12:06 (MO): [Laughs]
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1:12:09 (JO): She was goin’, “Yeah, she’s at work.” I said, “Okay.” I let that go and so I went
back – I’m still at the office but I’m off duty. I said, hmm, let me call – I called Bee Creek and
tell ‘em, “Yes, I’d like to talk to Debbie Warden” “Hmm, okay. Debbie!” She was up on the
stand or whatever. She came down. Anyway, fast forward through all that, I told her that I was
followin’ up, just talked to her mother, wanted to find out about the brother. She said, “Yeah,
well that’s what happened.” I said, “Well, I wonderin’ what your plans were this weekend?” She
said, “What?” I said, “Well, I was wonderin’ if you could grace me with your presence for the
barbeque that we’re havin’, the policeman’s barbeque?” I said, oh shoot, I already crossed that
line now. Then she said, “Yeah, sure.” We talked about it afterwards and she said, “Well, if you
can’t trust a policeman, who you gonna trust?” I said, “Yeah.” Yeah, we went out and it went
fine. We dated for two years and then we got married and here we are forty-one years later.
1:13:41 (MO): Congratulations.
1:13:41 (JO): Yeah, yeah.
1:13:43 (MO): Did you have any children?
1:13:44 (JO): Yeah, I’ve got two. I’ve got a thirty-nine-year-old. His name is Brandon. He goes
by Bear. He is an HR manager with Starbucks. He’s been with them over ten years. He’s got his
master’s from A&M [Texas A&M University] in HR and whatever that is. [Dental click] My
daughter-in-law is a PhD with the VA [Veterans Affairs] in psychology. She graduated from
A&M as well. Grandson, Jace, he’s ten and he’s an honors student and all that kind of stuff.
1:14:29 (MO): You have a good family.
1:14:30 (JO): They’re a good family, yeah. Then, I have a younger son, Davis, who is thirty-
three, thirty-three. He graduated from Sam Houston [Sam Houston State University] with
kinesiology. He was also on the national football team for Blinn – Blinn-dergarten.
1:14:56 (MO): Cool.
1:14:57 (JO): Yeah, he was a place-kicker and a punter.
1:15:02 (MO): Followed in his father’s footsteps.
1:15:03 (JO): Roger that, yeah. Real proud of him. They have two children – a one-year-old,
Miles – Gabriel first – Gabriel Miles, and then Jackson Davis, he’s four. Daughter-in-law,
Rosalinda, she works for A&M as a project manager. [Dental click] Anyway, they’ve been
together I guess about six years or so. Bear and Lauren have been together about 11 [years]. He
officed up in Seattle for a couple years while she was finishin’ her PhD. Davis worked for M&M
[M&M Apparel] as a manager, the embroidery place there off of Welsh Street, yeah. [Dental
click] Like I said, he got his undergrad from Sam Houston in kinesiology. Rosa got her master’s
in Spanish so that’s what she does. Matter’a fact she, as a manager she travels intermittently an’
stuff so she’s somewhere workin’, and we’ll see her this weekend. That’s the whole group.
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1:16:44 (MO): It’s nice to have family close by.
1:16:47 (JO): Yeah, it’s very helpful. Grandkids, love those guys. Man, they’re fun.
1:16:53 (MO): Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions about your experience as Master
Police Officer and that time with the department?
1:17:03 (JO): Yeah.
1:17:04 (MO): I was wondering, so when you started with the police department, was there a
campus police force?
1:17:14 (JO): Yeah, University PD. Ūpid that’s what we called ‘em [laughs].
1:17:19 (MO): Ūpid?
1:17:20 (JO): Don’t be ūpid.
[Laughter]
1:17:21 (JO): We had a good relationship back then. It was clunky, because you got two,
basically, semi-professional organizations – not anything like they are now. I mean they’ve –
University PD has come around ten-fold since they had a guy named Bob Wiatt [Robert E.
“Bob” Wiatt] – they named a whole area after him, a whole program area. He worked for FBI
and anyway, he became their police chief. He brought them up – their standards – and got them
professional and got them accredited and all kinds of stuff. [Dental click] Same thing with
College Station PD. We finally had some people that saw hey, y’know, we need to be more
professional too ‘cause the people that we were hirin’ were college grads comin’ in and they had
more expectations than what we had. They came in an’ figured well hey, y’know, I’m gonna put
this weapon on and this uniform and I can do stuff. Then find out, no you can’t [chuckles]. You
better not, is pretty much. So, that was tough. Anyway, the universities got along great and once
again, when I was there from seventy-nine to ninety-nine, I knew a lot of those guys before they
retired or went somewhere else. Most of the people that transferred outta there, did so because
they wanted to better themselves workin’ with the state agency or federal agency or somethin’.
City police was not – it wasn’t frowned upon, but you weren’t up to snuff if you didn’t, y’know,
do any good. That was the thing that I have to wear, and I’m reminded of that in my pension all
the time, as a Master Officer, that’s all that I could be. I tried to do all these different programs
and gettin’ in there tryna, y’know, better myself but the powers that be said no an’ I said oh-ho.
Well, I didn’t agree with that. But I was better –
1:19:51 (MO): Well, I think in the name itself, it shows a lot of experience – ‘master’ police
officer. I mean ‘master’ anything is up there.
1:20:02 (JO): Yeah, and the ‘master’ title used to be a ‘corporal’ because we didn’t have any
rank structure and that was the guys sayin’, well, you’re more than a senior officer but – I didn’t
take a test to be corporal, they just made me a corporal like I was opposed to but that was better
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than nothin’ [chuckles]. The corporal, itself, you got to wear some stripes, y’know, and that kind
of stuff, but that didn’t mean – that just means I’m one less stripe from a sergeant. Actually, I
need to have some bars, y’know, that kind of stuff but it never happened. The ‘master officer’
was the result of the standards from TCLEOSE [Texas Commission on Law Enforcement
Officer Standards and Education] – it’s TCOLE [Texas Commission on Law Enforcement] now,
I think – but Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Education, TCLEOSE.
That’s what that stood for. They gave the classification ‘master officer’ and you got that after
you did twenty years of service and completed all the certain type of training which I did over
my period of time. That’s why they awarded me master officer.
1:21:15 (MO): Yes sir.
1:21:16 (JO): They couldn’t deny me. If they didn’t let me do the training that woulda been
pretty bad y’know that you’ve been there twenty years and I mean, all you do is take a test,
y’know, and you get promoted and there you go. I mean, you got that title. So, that’s where I
was, but anything outside of that they made a point to not let that happen. So, that’s where the
rub comes on that, but no, I’m thankful. What I’ve learned about College Station – used to say,
College Station has drive-by shoutings and Bryan has drive-by shootings.
1:22:07 (MO): Hmm.
1:22:07 (JO): So, that was the difference in the two agencies.
1:22:11 (MO): Yes sir.
1:22:12 (JO): Same thing with the University police – all you gotta say is they’re Aggies. Take
that however you want – that, y’know. Here’s an example, for all my career at CSPD, I had to
work traffic for events an’ bonfires an’ all that kind of stuff ‘cause that was what you do. You’re
gonna do that, you just, you’re gonna spend time directin’ traffic, doin’ whatever, special
assignments an’ stuff but that’s it. You’re dealin’ with Aggies. My favorite line was when I’d go
in it’d be a disturbance either at a bar or domestic or just ruckus – a big party an’ e’rybody and
then you come in there and e’rybody “Ugh Err” and I said, “Hey, show me the good Ag”.
1:23:21 (MO): [Laughs]
1:23:21 (JO): “That’s what I thought.” Yeah, so that kind of stuff, y’know. That’s what I said,
“I’m just looking for the good Aggie whoever it is so we can get this thing situated and move
out. We don’t wanna put our hands on anybody, but we will. So, please, tell you right now –” to
do this kind of stuff and e’rybody starts leavin’ and all that bull corn. My last year, in 1999, the
year the bonfire fell, earlier in the season we had LSU had played. Well, I was workin’ – I hated
that position, man, where I had to be on Wellborn Road, and back then they had that overpass
that went over. Do you remember that?
1:24:17 (MO): Yes.
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1:24:17 (JO): Yeah, okay. Well, that right there, I was assigned to make people use the
crosswalk so they wouldn’t walk across the deal. Oh man. I mean, I was doin’ best, and it was
probly ninety degrees and I’m wearin’ my vest an’ everything. They’re comin’ through and I’m
tellin’ people, “Hold up, hold up, hold up. Please use the crosswalk for your safety” and stuff and
they’re just blowin’ by me an’ stuff. ‘Said maaan, and so –
1:24:45 (MO): Dealin’ with the crowds for football.
1:24:48 (JO): Yeah, that’s what it was, yeah, and they were bein’ Aggies, man. Like I said,
when I talk about Aggies it’s not a matter of reference, it’s a matter’a I know how you are. I’ve
seen you. I’ve been there, done that, all that kind of stuff and, y’know, it’s never their fault. It’s
“Oh – [rambling noise]. I’m doin’ this –” and blah, blah, blah and, y’know, “I make more than
you.” Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah – I know. Alright, anyway, so we got this goin’ on an’
they’re just blowin’ by and I’m like shwoo, man, I am sweatin’ big time. Well, an LSU person
comes by and says, “Man, you look hot.” I said, “[Chuckles] Yeah, I am.” And [he] gave me a
bottled water and a LSU towel. I said, man, it was love. I said, “Man, thank you so much.” [He]
said “You’re welcome.” They followed and went over and did what they were supposed to do.
So, now, I’m an LSU fan.
1:25:48 (MO): [Laughs]
1:25:49 (JO): When they play each other – LSU, man, all the way.
1:25:53 (MO): Well, that was nice.
1:25:53 (JO): Yeah, it is.
1:25:55 (MO): Well, and all the Aggies they wear towels in their boots already. One of them
could’ve given you a towel, yeah.
1:26:02 (JO): Sure, yeah. Well, if they just – not one of them went over and did what I asked
them to do. They did just the opposite because they could. What am I gonna do? I’m not gonna
arrest everybody, but that why I knew it was a crummy assignment. That’s the kind of stuff that,
once again, got my goat on some stuff.
1:26:22 (MO): What is your favorite story to tell from being a police officer?
1:26:27 (JO): From bein’ a police officer.
1:26:28 (MO): Yes.
1:26:29 (JO): Wow. Well, probly that one ‘cause it has purpose. Yeah, and people can identify
with that ‘cause, “Oh! You like – [LSU]?” And then they understand why. Yeah, I guess, yeah.
1:26:41 (MO): Is that your funniest story too?
1:26:44 (JO): No, my funni[est] – I got some that Mmm. Well, for example, [groans] lemme
think about this a lil’ bit.
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1:26:57 (MO): Okay [laughs].
1:26:58 (JO): But make sure that you’re okay with it too, that’s why I’m tellin’ you on the front
end. Well, there used to be a place called Safeway. It’s right there on Highway 30, right next to
the liquor store whatever that’s called now.
1:27:21 (MO): Okay.
1:27:22 (JO): It used to be called Safeway. Well, I was there off-duty [dental click] and walked
into the Safeway store and there was an older lady behind me. I’m a young man. Carried my
weapon an’ everything with me, all that stuff. Y’know, plain clothes an’ stuff – and that was
tough an’ all that kind of stuff.
1:27:52 (MO): [Laughs]
1:27:52 (JO): Anyway, so, they give me whatever I paid [for], so I put it on top of that. While
I’m doin’ that – I used to keep my money in my pocket – so I pull that out to get some money.
Oh, I guess about sixty bucks fell out on the floor, more or less. So, I pay for that and looked
back, and that old lady reached down there an’ picked that up.
1:28:23 (MO): [Gasps] Oh my –
1:28:27 (JO): Yeah, I was like, okay. Y’know and so I’m making change an’ stuff. I said,
“Excuse me” – they give me all the stuff. I said, “Excuse me, I dropped some money there.” I
said, “I think you picked it up.” She said, “Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers.”
1:28:25 (MO): Oh my god.
1:28:46 (JO): Yeah. I said, “Hey, that don’t sound right.”
1:28:50 (MO): [Laughs]
1:28:51 (JO): So, I didn’t want to make an issue and it was kinda crowded then – people tryin’
to, y’know, do their deal. She was, y’know, makin’ her way, just nonchalant, “Get outta my way
guy.” I said, “Oh man.” So, I walked to the end of the counter and waitin’ there by the door.
[Dental click] I said – the lady was doin’ her stuff, she never even looked back again. Got that
an’ started walkin’ out and I stood in front of her. I said, “Excuse me ma’am”, I said, “You got
my money.” I said, “I need to have that –” She said, “I said Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers.”
1:29:29 (MO): Yeah.
1:29:30 (JO): She walked on out. I said, “Maan, what in the world?” I said, “Man, I’d just let it
go. It’s not worth it.” I said, “Oh, dadgum it, it is worth it.”
1:29:45 (MO): That’s sixty bucks!
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1:29:45 (JO): Yeah, I follow her out there and she goes to her ol’ raggedy car an’ puttin’ stuff in
there like that and got all these bags an’ stuff – sacks. Doin’ that. I walked up behind her and
said, “Hey, lady, look – “And she goes, “You’re harrassin’ me. Get away from me” and all this
stuff. “Look I don’t wanna get into all that kind of stuff. I just wanted you to know, do you need
the money? If you do, I don’t have a problem with it. But if you’re just tryna beat me out of it
and jus’ be mean and ugly, I got a problem with that.” She said, “I told you, Finders Keepers
Losers Weepers.” I said, “Okay.” So, I picked up that sack and I said, “Hey.” She goes, “Hey!
That’s mine!” [JO] “Finders Keepers, Loser Weepers.”
1:30:29 (MO): [Laughs] What was it?
1:30:32 (JO): You wanna know what was in the sack?
1:30:33 (MO): Uh huh.
1:30:34 (JO): A bunch’a bologna like I’m tellin’ you.
1:30:36 (MO): Oh [laughs].
1:30:40 (JO): Sorry, so that’s the joke.
1:30:41 (MO): Oh wait, so did this happen or?
1:30:42 (JO): No, it’s a joke!
1:30:43 (MO): Oh [laughs] it’s a joke!
1:30:45 (MO): That’s why I did that.
1:30:46 (MO): [Laughs] Oh, okay!
1:30:47 (JO): It’s a bunch of bologna like I’m feedin’ you – that’s what was in the sack.
1:30:50 (MO): Oh! [Laughs] I believed you this whole time. I thought it was an actual story.
1:30:54 (JO): Yeah, I used to have a bunch of those, but I don’t do that very much.
1:30:58 (MO): I’m – My fiance’s dad tells stories like that. Yeah, yeah –
1:31:04 (JO): Now you know.
1:31:05 (MO): [Dental click] Ah [laughs] You got me too! ‘Cause he’ll tell stories about like
bein’ a cop and then you actually believe him.
1:31:13 (JO): Yeah, yeah. That’s why I tryda put a disclaimer on the front end. So, I don’t know
how you’re gonna feel about all this.
1:31:21 (MO): [Laughs] That was a good story. Yeah, you made me laugh. Thank you. Well, I
have a couple more questions about stories. What was a time when you were in a high stress
situation and how did you keep calm and focused?
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1:31:42 (JO): Well, thank goodness – like I said my life experiences and training – I was a
martial artist trained in Hapkido, Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, my original art was Okinawa Isshin-Ryū.
Like I said, I trained at the police academy for ten – twelve – fifteen years – they’ve all run
together – for the police department [as] the physical defense and tactics instructor. Also, back
then we used weapons like a short baton and hickory and all that kinda stuff. I used all that stuff.
Back then, we had side-handle batons – I don’t think they use them anymore. Anyway, all those
things. Then, of course, bein’ able to deal with people. So, I said I didn’t get worked up when the
Aggies were actin’ up ‘cause I could handle myself. Matter’a fact, I remember goin’ into the
Dixie Chicken one time and, y’know, I’m vertically challenged so I’m walkin’ and the other
officers that were with me were in front of me. So, they were walkin’ through – they don’t know
– like I said they didn’t have the professionalism that you needed to be able to handle a crowd of
all that stuff. There are some crowd stories out there I’m sure somebody can attest to how we
made calls out there to Northgate – hundreds of people just actin’ crazy an’ all that stuff.
Anyway, I was goin’ through the Dixie Chicken, and I made it a point to try to use, like I said,
life experiences, like when you’re on a railroad track – there’s a cow the railroad track – the
lights make a circle to make the cow look away er’ stuff. So, if you ever see that that’s –
1:33:45 (MO): I didn’t know that.
1:33:46 (JO): There you go. So, anyway, I turned my flashlight on. Back then, that was one of
our pieces of equipment, like a 6-cell battery. It was metal. [Chuckles] I mean, that’s what you
had because they didn’t allow me to carry anything else except a radio, my sidearm, and a
flashlight, yeah. Anyway, so I turned the light on and I’m doin’ that and then the crowd, y’know,
kinda look around and stuff.
1:34:22 (MO): [Laughs]
1:34:23 (JO): I’m walkin’ through there and I’m getting’ absorbed by the other officers that are
walkin’ through, walkin’ ahead of me. We had these stupid brown cowboy hats that you saw
some pictures of. Yeah. Well, while I’m goin’ through there some good Ag grabs my hat like,
“What’re ya gonna do?”, y’know, like wantin’ me to, “Hey, hey, hey, hey” [reaching up for his
hat] that kinda – Heck no. So, y’know, I had my flashlight. I turned it and did a technique like
that [demonstrates], hit him right in the shoulders – pshh – and he fell back and then e’rybody
else looks right like that. I got in ready position. I had my dadgum flashlight. My partners had
already walked through – they were gone. So, it’s just me with, y’know, sixty people standin’
round. The respect that they gave me after that like, “Oh man. Don’t mess with that guy ‘cause,
y’know”. I was in good shape too so, like I said, when I delivered the punch to him, hit him right
where he needed to, and he fell back like that, y’know. He got up and gave me my hat. I put it on
and y’know, kept circlin’ and walked out. No harm, no foul. We went and we got outta there.
Then we got to where the guys were outside. “Where you been?” I said, “Oh, just people actin’
up, man” and all that stuff. “Oh, [murmuring]” So, anyway, so we go the next night and do the
same thing. We’re goin’ through there and this time when I start up like that, those guys were in
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front of me – no they weren’t, they were next to me. I started doin’ that when I went through
crowd, the crowd opened up.
1:36:04 (MO): [Laughs] Respect.
1:36:05 (JO): Yeah, ‘cause they knew that guy with the flashlight.
1:36:08 (MO): Yeah, he knows karate.
1:36:10 (JO): Right, exactly. Yeah, don’t mess with him. I just kept on goin’ and we’re able to
do the bar check and get outta there.
1:36:19 (MO): Cool.
1:36:20 (JO): Those goes didn’t know it, none the wiser. Those are the kind of things. Of
course, when people would try to come up and grab me by my arms ‘course technique’s to grab
‘em and twist their arm and bring ‘em back down and “Hey, take it easy man. Take it easy. Don’t
hurt yourself. Y’know, that kind of deal.” So, all those interactions that I had. So, and then when
I was on our tactical team, I was the point man. [Chuckles] Those guys cracked me up ‘cause
they would say “‘Rozco [claps twice] you’re gonna be point ‘cause we’re behind you all the
way” I’d say, “Yeah, thanks guys.”
[Laughter]
1:37:01 (JO): So, I would be the guy that would come in with the shield – the point guys’ the
first guy in the door and has to make the decision of what’s gonna happen after that. So, then of
course I had a sawed-off shotgun that there’s some pictures of me in there with that. So, when I
walked through, sure enough engage one guy that set his house on fire over there on Park Place.
Went in, finally had to make entry. And so, bust through the door. I’m comin’ through there and
the guy’s fixin’ to jump me, but I was able to push forward like that and give an upstroke and
bring him down and stay on top of him. Then the rest ‘a guys come in ad we got it satisfied. All
those kind of stuff. So, I was never scared. Just, I had trained and my – what do they call it
nowadays – you’re reaction, you’re memory reaction to the training that you do.
1:38:07 (MO): Yes sir. It kicked in.
1:38:08 (JO): Yeah, sure. All my training that I’d do, knowing that we’d be going in certain
situations, what my response would be – how I was going to react to it ‘cause I’d been in to it
hundreds of times and all this kind of stuff.
1:38:25 (MO): Yeah.
1:38:26 (JO): Well, I’ll tell you one that’s funny that comes to mind – this is true. This is true.
1:38:29 (MO): Okay [laughs].
1:38:30 (MO): This is a true story bro – that kind of deal. [Laughs] We were doin’ [dental click]
some surveillance on a place over off of Luther Street where they do all the shootings and all that
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stuff. Well, it was somethin’ like that that was goin’ on. But I was [laughs] – There’s two of ‘em.
I’ll jus’ start with the first one ‘cause I forgot about that one. There’s a place right next to the
Kettle and in between the graveyard [College Station City Cemetery] now used to be a place
called Fort Shiloh. It’s not there anymore, but there used to be a structure there. It was a
restaurant. So, we got there – at that time, the department had a canine and they called it Uno
Pooh and that was the name of an amusement park [Pooh’s Park] down the road at the corner of
Texas Avenue and Holleman [Holleman Drive]. They had a super slide and all that kind of stuff.
The owner owned that, and he donated the canine – a German Shepherd. His name was Pooh, so
they called him Uno Pooh – first one. So, we got an alarm that there was a burglary in progress
and our task force team had just started and formed. We didn’t really have uniforms that’re
consistent – e’rybody wearin’ black and jeans an’ whatever – ‘cause we didn’t have funds for all
that stuff. We just knew that we needed it. If you read my proposal on all that stuff, it explains to
you how all that stuff happened. So, we get there an' they call our K9 unit Uno Pooh to come out there
and I'm point so — but I don't have the shield and all that stuff. I just have [yawns] my side arm 'cause
they don't wanna use a shotgun blast for y 'know that far out and what have you. So, we get on the our
whole team, y'know, we trained to, y'know, how we're gonna be in a stack and get in-line — setup 'n
stuff. Uno Pooh comes up and I'm point guy [laughs] and I'm standin' there, and they give the command
and the handler — the name's Duane Thompson, he's passed since then. He was right there ready to give
the command and I'm right next to 'im. I'm ready boy to launch, follow the dog — that's the way it's
gonna go. So, they go, "Uno Pooh" and he [Thompson] had some command that he said in German,
y'know, whatever it was. And he goes like, "Pooh [K9 Command, indiscernible]" [laughs] and I'm here
and the dog goes [growling noises]. [Laughs]
(MO): Oh no!
1:41:38 (O): And he comes up to me, yeah [laughs]. He comes runnin' up to me and I go, “Hey!
[laughter] Dang it, get off of me [laughs].” They fell out laughin' at me. But anyway, man, that, it was like
[growl noise] "Hey! Get back!" [Laughs]. So, that was that. The other one that was funny like that was we
were — the Luther Street thing I was tellin' you 'bout - [yawns] Oh goodness. I was low crawlin' getting'
to this structure. I needed to go check on this thing. I had a buddy, well, the other team member that was
with me — the rest of the guys were at different areas, and we were all gonna converge and setup before
the person made entry or tried to do something. So, there I am on this cyclone fence and I'm crawlin'
against this fence, and I hear [coughing/panting noise]. I said, "What the heck?" Man, so, y'know, so I
keep crawlin' - I'm low crawlin' so how you do that is, y 'know, you draw your knee up and push away
with your foot and your stuff and you're just grabbin' like that. I had my weapon [movin'] and as I'm
goin'and I'm goin' across and I'm finally getting' to the end close to the parking lot, the cyclone fence
stops. So, I'm still goin' like that, and I look to my right an' this dang dog's right there.
[Laughter]
1:43:18 (JO): He had been followin' me [laughs] on the other side of the fence. Yeah, yeah. I would
probably be like, "Hey! [indiscernible]!" He's like, "What'ya doin'?"
[Laughter]
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1:43:27 (JO): Oh man, that was funny. We cracked up on that too.
(MO): Did he like you?
1:43:32 (JO): Must'a been. Like, I could hear him breathin' but I didn't see anybody. It was dark and he
was dark, so. But, the fact that he was on that fenceline
1:43:43 (MO): [Laughs] He was coming with you [laughs].
1:43:45 (JO): What the heck [laughs]? Boooy, go on outta here! Go on! Hiyah! So, anyway, that was
funny.
1:43:53 (MO): Did you have K9s like an Uno Pooh, like, after that?
1:44:01 (JO): Yeah, the department has K9s I think.
1:44:04 (MO): Oh okay. Are they named in sequential order?
1:44:08 (JO): That I don't know. Like I said, I lost contact with all the tactical stuff. Is there a guy named
Steve Brock still at the PD?
1:44:17 (MO): I'm not sure but I'll look.
1:44:20 (JO): Yeah! Well, if you do, give him my regards 'cause he was part of the SORT team and the
way he's the new generation comin' in. We called him Bamm-Bamm 'cause he looked like Bamm-Bamm
[Bamm-Bamm Rubble, The Flintstones].
(MO): [Chuckles]
1:44:33 (JO): He was blonde hair, and he was kinda buff.
1:44:35 (MO): Yeah [chuckles].
1:44:35 (JO): I hadn't seen 'im in a long time. Y 'know, I thought he appreciated me an' stuff. A lot of
these stories he would know or remember and stuff like that 'cause he was there — he's probably been
there thirty years now. Man, yeah.
1:44:54 (MO): Well, I’ll look for him an’ tell him you said hi.
1:44:55 (JO): Yeah, Steve Brock. I think he’s lieutenant now. Anyway, that’s what comes to mind.
1:45:07 (MO): Thank you. Yeah! Those are really good stories. What was the most difficult situation or decision you had to make?
1:45:16 (JO): [Sighs] When to retire [chuckles]. Yeah, I knew I din’t wanna end up my whole career just bein’ Master Officer an’ bein’ put out to pasture [idiom: to force someone to leave a job because of older age] or givin’ me crummy assignments and havin’ me go work all those things and stuff like that. I
couldn’t stomach that anymore. I said no. I know there’s life after that.
1:45:42 (MO): Yeah.
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1:45:43 (JO): And there was. Yeah, ‘cause after I retired. I went to be a PI [Private Investigator] and I
made this PI company in College Station a lot of money because at that time there was a bunch of drive
by shootings in Bryan. A lot of ‘em were gang related. I was the only one they would trust to translate.
So, there I was. That was another thing too that I had with the department. They took it for granted that I
was – just because we have a Spanish speaking individual that I have to translate. I told ‘em I don’t
consider myself bilingual. I said ‘cause I was raised with my languages like local colloquialisms, things
that you say and stuff. It wasn’t structured that’s why I went –
1:46:57 (MO): It wasn’t formal Spanish.
1:46:58 (JO): It wadn’t formal. Yeah, now afterwards I did. I went to – like I said when I finished up at
Sam [Sam Houston University] that’s why I made a point to, emphasis on – I was like 6 hours from
getting’ a minor in Spanish. Yeah. I had the fundamentals, but I made it a point that whenever I went an’
translated for anything, I never went to court and testified on that. I made it a point. I said I’m not gonna
testify if you’re gonna use that about what I’m sayin’ – how it’s interpreted ‘cause it might’a been
misinterpreted and I don’t want that. So, anyway, but yeah, that was tough. What was the original
question?
1:47:46 (MO): Oh! You were telling be about when you decided to retire and [dental click] you became a
private investigator.
1:47:52 (JO): Right, yeah.
1:47:54 (MO): How long did you do that?
1:47:54 (JO): I did that for a coupl’a years and then went to work for a company in south College Station
called Creative [indiscernible] – CIC. That was the name of the company. I don’t remember what the
acronym stood for. Anyway, it was an acid management company for medical supplies an’ stuff. I
travelled all throughout the states (United States) usually at universities dealin’ with the medical
equipment and stuff because of my experience as an investigator. I did ten years as an investigator too. I
would go to these locations and do follow-up to see if their inventory was like what they were reporting.
They’d report losses because what they found out the management had decided hey, we’re gonna sell you
this insurance policy for your equipment [dental click] we’ll cover everything in your structure for a
hundred thousand dollars – whatever it is. Okay, well, what they did – they were smart – they went down
in the basement and got old broken stuff and brought it up and said – yeah there was no record of it, but
they wanted those claims paid and they get new equipment for nothin’. S, that’s why they sent me out
there to go and look. I had to – Man, that was a hard job tryin’ to negotiate with them and settle with the
company and tell them whatever. They endin’ up, y’know, workin’ out a price, a fee or somethin’ an’
stuff, but that was tough.
1:49:35 (MO): How did you determine if it was something old that they brought back or something –
1:49:39 (JO): Oh yeah well, I’d ask them to just show me. “Show me where you got that from”. They’d
go down to the basement and yeah, “See back over there. That’s number 4403 back there” “I don’t know
man. Let me go look.” I get my flashlight out. “No, that’s not it. What else you got?” I kept tryna work
with him. They knew they were busted because somebody actually came to check on what they were
reporting ‘cause some of that stuff costs five thousand dollars for one of these little calibrators or
something like that. I said, “No, I don’t think that’s right. Gimme something. I’ll take back what you’re
tellin’ me but it needs to be legit. We need to make sure we’re on the same page.” And that kind of stuff.
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So, anyway, I did that and while that was goin’ on 9/11 [September 11 Attacks] happened. When 9/11
happened, it was tough. The company started foldin’ because they got called out on a lot of the claims
they didn’t want to pay because they had discrepancies and all that kind of stuff. 9/11 happened and I
remember sittin’ at the house before I went out to go back to do one of those assignments. I said, man
that’s happenin’ now. That’s real. I mean, then, I couldn’t believe it and it just made me wanna do
somethin’. So, man, I got online and figured out. I said, man, what can I do to help do somethin’. I said,
man, I wanna do somethin’, I don’t know. I’m retired police and I wanna do something. Just put me in
something – whatever. Put me in coach, man, whatever, ‘cause I could do anything. I can operate. I can
move. I can run. I can shoot – all that kind of stuff. They said, “Well, we don’t have anything open now,
but we’ll see what we can get.” I said, “Well, what is there?” Then we found out that Bush had started
DHS – Homeland Security. That was the following year, but durin’ that time a group of guys that I had
worked with when I was – they were at RELLIS. They were doin’ training. I got to be pretty good buds
with them. They created a company called Foreign Travelling Intelligence. What they were doin’ was the
first iteration of Air Marshalls and they wanted me to be a part of the program. I said, “Yeah!” [Claps
hands] “Let’s do that man.” So, I went over there – well I think I left out a big part. I was a [dental click]
– with my undergrad – I was like thirty-two hours away from finishin’ up and you needed to have your
degree at the time. I said, [Claps hands] “What in the world.” So, they all got absorbed by DHS and went
to train. I didn’t make it, so that made me go back to Sam [Sam Houston University] and finish up. Durin’
that time when I did, I took a [dental click] full load. I took twenty-four hours.
1:53:10 (MO): Whoa.
1:53:11 (JO): Yeah, to get outta there. Anyway, I had a heart attack and that put me back. Then I got
back and got better and went on and then finished up. The rest is history. When I graduated in oh-four
[2004] – oh I was getting’ to the point where how Homeland Security – I met or rather I ran into a guy
that used to work with my dad. My dad had seen him, said, “Hey, how you doin’?” “Hey, good LT.
What’re you doin’?” Blah, blah, blah and all that stuff. He said, “How’s John?” He [LT/Miguel Orozco]
said, “He just graduated from Sam Houston.” “Yeah. Does he need a job?” He [LT/Miguel Orozco] said,
“Yeah! Matter’a fact.” So, the guy, who was a Bryan PD officer at the time, put me in touch with the
RELLIS campus as we call it now. With him, he was the project manager for an Enhanced Spanish for
Emergency Responders. John Cornyn was the guy that wrote the bill. They were paying for people to be
able to communicate with the general population which is a one-eighty [figure of speech for ‘opposite’]
now from everything. Anyway, so I was in charge, and I had forty Latino officers from Texas Rangers to
DPS, people, just – those are the ones that come to mind right now. A lot of those people – officers – they
were all bilingual, so I farmed those guys out [idiom for send to work for someone] to train. The
organization state paid for all their little booklets. They had a training video and all that stuff. Like I said,
I was the coordinator for that whole program. Did that for about a year or so until the funds ran out and
they decided they din’t wanna do that anymore ‘cause population was growin’ too much. All the stuff that
you hear now. So that went through. As opposed to [dental click] riffin’ [RF’n] me. Y’know what ‘riff’’
[RF] means?
1:55:50 (MO): No sir.
1:55:51 (JO): Reduction and Force. So, instead’a firin’ you they put the squeeze on you and next thing
you know you don’t have a job anymore ‘cause it’s not funded. But that’s what – before they decided to do that to me – they knew I could do other stuff ‘cause the guy that had hired me or put me in touch with
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everybody knew that I could do other programs. So, they put me in charge of a program called Aggressive
Driver Behavior Modification. What that was about was support for in all the precincts – I think there’s
ten counties – Robertson, Burleson, Leon – all those in this area that would need to take defensive
driving. The method was comedy.
1:56:52 (MO): Okay.
1:56:53 (JO): I don’t consider myself a comedian, but I can entertain, and I can – instead’a entertainment
I was info-tainment. I would have to show this video and talk to them about that. Like people would go
an’ pay to go to – instead of gettin’ a – from the Justic of the Peace are the ones that were doin’ that –
they would write tickets and stuff like that. So, they would make them go to this course as opposed to
havin’ to pay that and so on and so forth. I did that for a while and then when I had half a dozen
instructors doin’ that and that was all to those regions. So, they’d go out and do that. I did that. Then after
that went away, then we had [dental click] the Central Texas Police Academy. That’s where I started, that
same place. I would be in there teachin’ of course the Spanish part [of] the Police Academy stuff,
defensive tactics as well. Matter’a fact, I was tellin’ you about Bob White. He’s got a structure out there
named after him now. That structure is the same foundation that I implemented and put that into the head
guy – his name was Tom Sheehan – that had wanted to [dental click] do somethin’ greater than what they
had there at RELLIS campus ‘cause they didn’t have anything. They just had two-thousand acres and they
built everything after the fact.
1:58:47 (MO): And reused buildings from World War II. Yeah.
1:58:52 (JO): Right, yeah. So, this was gonna be new and stuff. So, I was [dental click] finishin up my
project with the Aggressive Driver Behavior Modification – that’s a mouthful [chuckles] –
1:59:06 (MO): [Chuckles]
1:59:07 (JO): That course. Then when my day was cut short or y’know they didn’t have anybody comin’
in or I didn’t have to go somewhere – the guys that were runnin’ the police academy – they were out of
shape and everything kind like the way I am right now [pats stomach] but they didn’t know what they
were doin’. I was watchin’ ‘em tellin’ them to exercise and they just did not know. I mean, goodness
gracious. So, I went out there and I was watchin’ ‘em. I said, “Hey man, ya’ll need some help?” “Yeah.
You wanna do this?” I said, “Yeah. I’ll do it.” “Okay.” So, he let me do it and those guys went and sat
down, took a break, took a cigarette smoke, whatever.
1:59:54 (MO): [Laughs]
1:59:54 (JO): Anyway, so, the cadets were watchin’ all this stuff, so I had ‘em – well, I had to think
[indiscernible] on my feet. So, once again I’ve done trainin’ all my career and knew what to do, so all I
had to work with was they had some trainin’ dummies and they also had some pile-ons. So, I laid the pile-
ons down and then had the trainin’ dummy and then said, “We’re gonna execute some punches on this
pile-on dummy then we’re gonna serpentine back. Then we’re gonna do some push-ups, then we’re gonna
run down here, come back and stuff. We’re gonna do that three times.” Y’know, that’s what ev’rybody
would do – they’d get some PT (Physical Training)
2:00:37 (MO): Yeah, you made a course.
2:00:39 (JO): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, I did that. So, I was watchin’’em on the course, and I was on
‘em. I was givin’ ‘em a hard time, “Nope. Hey, c’mon. C’mon, you can do that. Let’s go.” Y’know, and
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so on. They all did it and they kinda enjoyed that, that I was, y’know, pushin’ ‘em and they were doin’
somethin’ with structure, and they felt it and stuff. The director had come out there and says, “Where did
you learn to do that?” I said, “What? This right here?” “Yeah,” he said, “Do you like doin’ that?” I said,
“Yeah”. He said, “You do that now.” I said, “Okay, sure.” So, I went back, and I looked to see. Did an
inventory of what they had for the next – tomorrow – the next day, what they were gonna use. I found out
that they had some kettle bells out there. So, I got the kettle bells and then I set up another course of how I
was gonna use ‘em around. I had ‘em run certain parts and we’re gonna do, y’know, some calisthenics
here an' everything set up. Set ‘em in order and set ‘em up. That’s what I do man. I just coordinate. Be the
coordinator, yeah. So, we did all that stuff, and showed ‘em how to use the kettle bells. They got stronger
and better and then we went for runs and hikes and blah, blah, blah. They would get a kick an’ some of
‘em didn’t like it – just like everything that I’d been in. I said, “Look, we have two-thousand acres to
cover out here. Where ya’ll wanna start?” They’re like, “What?!” Anyway, we’d get into it and
fortunately, some of the guys had already been in the service and came back. So, I’d let them run the
cadence and they’d call the cadences out, y’know, and all that stuff. They’d get goin’ and there’s
comradery, and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, he liked that. They built a course to run over there now. They
have a track over there now. They put some stationary [dental click] units to – y’know, chin up bars, what
other apparatus they had, with the dadgum – I forgot whatcha call it.
2:02:51 (MO): Oh, the escalator – not an escalator [elliptical] [snaps fingers]
2:03:00 (JO): Yeah, but you were right. That’s what I’m talkin’ about.
2:03:03 (MO): I’ll fill it in what it’s actually called [chuckles].
2:03:06 (JO): Right, that and the course – the track was a quarter mile. They would be able to run and at
different stations they would have sit-up boards and all that kind of stuff. So, they had that. Then after I
was leavin’, they built the Bob Wiatt’s facility where they use that for training which has mats and all that
kind and just pshh
2:03:36 (MO): [They] expanded upon what you set up.
2:03:37 (JO): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I’m proud of that. So, after that was goin’ on – they were finishin’
up and stuff like that – I got approached by the National Emergency Rescue Response Training Center
called NERRT- C. They handled the WMD [Weapons of Mass Destruction] of Homeland Security
initiatives. They offered me a position to become an Associate Training Specialist where I would do
threat and risk assessments and critical infrastructure protection, and I did that. I’d log a hundred fifty –
hundred eighty thousand miles a year for ten years travelin’ all over the country – Guam, Saipan, Puerto
Rico. I did all that and [dental click] got many commendations to create a curriculum. All that kind of
stuff. [Birds chirping] They were real appreciative. Like the stuff that I did, they recognized me. So,
lookin’ back, what I left, and I said “If I’d stayed there, it’d been just that but here I opportunity to travel
–
2:04:51 (MO): Growth.
2:04:51 (JO): an’ do different things. Yeah, definitely big growth and made some life-long friends and
contacts. I did somethin’ an’ I didn’t have to put my hands on people anymore – just a matter of usin’
mind and my creativity and usin’ my experience to further that.
2:05:13 (MO): That’s awesome.
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2:05:14 (JO): Yeah, so, I’m satisfied – I felt I’ve –
2:05:18 (MO): That is a very very full life of all kinds of –
2:05:20 (JO): Roger that.
2:05:21 (MO): experiences an’ jobs.
2:05:26 (JO): Mhmm. Mhmm. [Dental click] Yeah.
2:05:27 (MO): Can I ask you a few more questions about BLUE HEAT?
2:05:29 (JO): Sure.
2:05:29 (MO): I know we’ve been talking for a bit an’ –
2:05:32 (JO): Oh, I’m fine – yeah.
2:05:32 (MO): Okay. So, I had a couple last interesting questions about BLUE HEAT. So, I kinda
scripted this one. The Rolling Stones’ Keith Richards needs a shepherd’s pie before every show and Led
Zepplin’s Robert Plant is said to need hot tea and an iron for his clothes. Name a unique pre-concert or
post-concert ritual that each band member did or that you did to prepare for a show.
2:06:03 (JO): Yeah, well, that’s interesting because number one none of the guys had any experience
about needing anything, y’know.
2:06:13 (MO): [Laughs]
2:06:14 (JO): We all carried our own stuff. We had our own equipment. We did our own thing.
2:06:19 (MO): Yeah.
2:06:20 (JO): Y’know, if – y’know, for me, I didn’t even care what the guys did ‘cause they’re supposed
to have their equipment. When we go, when we perform, have your drum sticks, have your guitar picks,
make sure you have set strings ‘n stuff before you set out, y’know, and all that kind of stuff. So, as far as
refreshments and all that kind of stuff I mean that’s just extra if it was there. We never thought to ask for
any of that stuff.
2:06:49 (MO): Okay.
2:06:49 (JO): Yeah, no, it was just a matter of that just part of the job. That’s like goin’ to work with
your weapon without any ammunition.
2:06:58 (MO): Yes sir.
2:06:59 (JO): Yeah, so, that’s it. I didn’t have any of that stuff.
2:07:04 (MO): I guess – you did it out of the kindness of your heart. You did it as a volunteer.
2:07:09 (JO): Oh yeah.
2:07:10 (MO): You volunteered your time. It wasn’t – yeah.
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2:07:12 (JO): Right, yeah. I never expected anything – never expected pay. I mean we were just doin’ –
that’s whatcha do. I just let it go as such. Now, if I got paid – I do tell people when I did perform and
people would ask me, “Hey man, you still playin’ and stuff?” “Yeah.” He says, “Where’re you playin’?” I
said, “Well, I used to do this at – .” They said, “Well, man, c’mon what don’t you play at our party?” or
something. “Nah, I’m good.” They said, “Aw, c’mon. We’ll give you somethin’.” “No. Hey, look do you
know what the difference is between a professional and an amateur?” “No.” I said, “An amateur plays
when they feel like it and a professional plays when you pay ‘em.”
2:08:00 (MO): Yeah.
2:08:01 (JO): So, you pay me then I’ll put on a show for you, but no, I’m not goin’ out to jam. I’d done
that, man.
2:08:08 (MO): Yeah.
2:08:09 (JO): Done that for forty – fifty years and no. That’s where I am.
2:08:15 (MO): [Laughs] Did you give out autographs?
2:08:17 (JO): I, personally, din’t but I know that the other guys did. They liked it. Like, I remember
Mason Newton signin’ somethin’ and Bubba Sayers signin’ like his sticks or something like that.
2:08:29 (MO): That’s cool.
2:08:30 (JO): That kind of stuff.
2:08:32 (MO): Did you throw your pick out into the crowd?
2:08:35 (JO): Yeah. Yeah, all that stuff.
2:08:36 (MO): [Laughs]
2:08:38 (JO): More or less, I had a – my microphone stand had a – that’s once again, equipment. I mean,
I had all my equipment. I had a device that attaches to the mic stand with a row of picks. So, when I’m
playin’ – plus I had to–
2:09:00 (MO): So, you’re ready.
2:09:01 (JO): Yeah, and on my guitar I had a couple of ‘em that just stuck in there in the pick guard so in
the event that it falls outta my hand, I can just get it as opposed to –
2:09:10 (MO): That’s so cool.
2:09:12 (JO): all that. Once again, that’s experience for learning that. Just like pluggin’ your guitar in,
you never – and that’s what the other guys learned I’m sure – that when you plug your guitar in – I mean
plug your cord into your guitar you run it underneath your strap, so it comes out and then you plug it in
because if not, if it’s just danglin’ there it could get sep– yeah come out. Then, you’re out of service. So,
all those kind of little things. Tricks of the trade.
2:09:46 (MO): Yeah. Yeah, very cool. Do you still – like after BLUE HEAT, did you ever get back
together and play?
2:09:57 (JO): No, like I said, I haven’t seen those guys in twenty-years.
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2:10:02 (MO): Yeah?
2:10:02 (JO): Yeah, you would think –
2:10:03 (MO): You ought’a have a reunion or something. Yeah.
2:10:04 (JO): Well, I’d like to find out somethin’ from the guys. The BLUE HEAT – well, not
necessarily just the BLUE HEAT but just the PD, we have a reserve group that – err not a reserve but
retirees that get together. We used to get together for lunch or breakfast or something like that. Scott
Simpson was our point of contact that would do that. He’s a volunteer guy that does that stuff. I stopped
getting’ notified that they were havin’ stuff and I thought, what happened there? It’s not that they don’t
know my condition. It’s like they just cut me and put me out cause my wife – before the Kettle [The
Kettle America’s Kitchen Restaurant] went away – was there havin’ breakfast with some other friends an’
stuff and the whole gang was there and havin’ breakfast. They asked how I was doin’ and stuff.
2:11:04 (MO): Scott Simpson sounds familiar – maybe he moved positions.
2:11:07 (JO): I don’t know.
2:11:07 (MO): But, if you would like to do that, I can find the people that are still doing it.
2:11:16 (JO): Well, yeah. Yes and no. I mean, they got things goin’ on too but I don’t wanna burden
anybody. I don’t want to be “that” guy. So, hey man, y’know whatever but anyway I just wondered why
they didn’t do that an’ stuff and if so, it goes back to my original comment sayin’, y’know, those were
some’a those guys that put the squeeze on me because they were that way. Maybe that’s some of the same
guys, y’know, and then that’s kinda cold-blooded.
2:11:50 (MO): Well, somehow, we’re havin’ this conversation right here and I don’t know who
contacted who, but word got to you that I was looking to do this interview and you’re the first and only
one that I’ve done an interview with from PD so far. So, it’s a big deal and I don’t believe that any other
police officer has been interviewed for Project HOLD.
2:12:18 (JO): Wow. The way I understood it that it unfolded was Pete [Pete Otholt] communicated. He
got information from you guys –
2:12:29 (MO): Yes sir, he did.
2:12:30 (JO): And then, he knows us, and he knows our families ‘cause we used to hang out together
when we were playin’ music.
2:12:35 (MO): Yeah, he mentioned, yeah, you might be interested.
2:12:41 (JO): I still have his bass matter’a fact.
2:12:43 (MO): Oh, really?
2:12:43 (JO): He lent me a bass, yeah.
2:12:46 (MO): Oh, cool.
2:12:46 (JO): Tell ‘em he’s welcome to have it back, man, ‘cause I’m not gonna be usin’ it for all I
know, but anyway. He played guitar and did some other stuff. Anyway, he’s a heavy metal guy.
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2:12:03 (MO): Yeah?
2:13:05 (JO): When we were talkin’ about music, we listened to – he was – like he liked playin’ at the
time Metallica.
2:13:12 (MO): Okay [laughs].
2:13:12 (JO): That’s one thing we do, “Nothin’ Else Matters”. We did that one. That was kind of a big
deal.
2:13:20 (MO): Yeah.
2:13:21 (JO): He liked that. He came on after the initial openin’. He got excited about bein’ a part of it.
He was like one of the guys – we talked about auditionin’ and all that stuff – that kinda he didn’t feel
good about playin’ and stuff, but he wanted to. He wanted to be part of whatever was goin’ on whether it
was a roadie or anything and he was that guy. He was a good guy too. Then we did the College Station
one so when it came time for the Bryan one, he knew enough to play it. I don’t, y’know, when he played,
I don’t remember if he actually played but he was there on stage and was part of that stuff.
2:14:05 (MO): I think they did it for a while ‘cause I have pictures from like the late 90s of – I’ll send it
to you and I’ll tell you what year exactly it was – but of him [Pete Otholt] playing on stage so.
2:14:21 (JO): Yeah. Yeah, well, I don’t know what happened with the group after that. Like I said, I lost
contact with all those guys. We used to be good friends for like Bubba Sayers, man, we – matter’a fact I
went to his 50th weddin’ anniversary here last coupl’a years ago.
2:14:39 (MO): Oh, yeah?
2:14:40 (JO): Yeah, and he wadn’t – well, I wadn’t doin’ too good either but his wife had some hip
surgery or somethin’, y’know, and I knew the family and all that and they came out and we visited a little
bit. That kind of stuff. After that, we never –
2:14:58 (MO): I think with, y’know, things going on in the world and social distancing, people kinda lost
touch but I think people are coming around to reconnecting with their friends and family. At least, me
personally, I have. I’ve noticed a difference in the last couple years and then now I’m getting together
with people.
2:15:22 (JO): Right, right. Yeah, well that’s great.
2:15:24 (MO): I have three more questions for you.
2:15:26 (JO): Sure, sure.
2:15:28 (MO): Do you think there will ever be a new BLUE HEAT or maybe even a tribute band within
the College Station PD?
2:15:36 (JO): Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know how they respond to this stuff because what I’ve
described to ya, y’know, there was a lotta – had to go through some hoops an’ stuff and just be tenacious
but have focus and be able to demonstrate that “Hey, you’re gonna get more than you bargained for if you
want me to do this ‘cause I’m gonna take it over the top. We’re gonna go to another professional level.”
As opposed to just loosely jam. I don’t do anything for the heck of it. I mean, I have purpose for
everything. So, that’s – somebody can pick that ball up and run with it, that’d be great. I’d like to see that,
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y’know, to see the legacy continue but outside of that I don’t know that there ever been and that’s another
thing, it’s interesting they’re not into it. Now days, you’ve got all kinds of techno stuff and sampled music
and what have you. Live music is – unless somebody comes in, well, like myself that had some skills to
play and do some stuff – but anybody can be a DJ [Disc jockey].
2:16:47 (MO): Yeah. Well, maybe this will spark someone’s interest.
2:16:49 (JO): That would. Yeah, if they see it and they’re compare and say, “Aw, yeah we – I can do
that.” There’s somebody out there you would think.
2:16:58 (MO): I hope so. That would be really cool. Then, lastly, what advice would you give a newly
employed police officer or anyone working within College Station PD?
2:17:08 (JO): Mhmm. Advice. Well, that’s – I guess I would say, personally, don’t give any advice
‘cause you’re gonna be wrong, y’know. People say, “Well, how would you that? How would you – ?”
Well, those are hypothetical stuff but if we’re gonna talk about somethin’ and we’re gonna get down to it,
we have to have some way of communicatin’, feedback and respect each other’s opinions or views and
what have you. Politics notwithstanding, all that kind of stuff. Advice would be why did you even begin
this project? For me, bein’ Pops and knowin’ what we know about that stuff. I knew that he had to be
firm, he had to be fair, and have compassion. I felt I did all that. If you do those things, you’ll be better
served and the whole point is service. That’s what we’re all about. Protect and serve. That’s why I wanted
to be on out tactical team and create all those things because I wanted to be the one in the line of fire. I
wanted to be the guy that was goin’ through the door to do that. So, somebody else doesn’t have to bear
that brunt. With the training and all that stuff, knowing that – like I said I was never scared – I’m doin’
my job like anybody. Y’know, if you’re a mechanic you know what to do. If it gets hard, well, you just
figure it out and whatever. Well, tactically, the same thing. Y’know, you have a plan. Follow that plan.
Execute it and stuff. When I was trainin’ in the martial arts, I would tell ‘em, “You never meet force with
force. You let the force take the path of least resistance. You let the force dissipate itself. Then you have
control or then you can do what you do to move that thing around or do it.” So [claps hands together].
2:19:26 (MO): Yeah. Well, I – thank you –
2:19:27 (JO): You’re welcome.
2:19:28 (MO): For your time and contributing to Project HOLD. It really was an honor and a pleasure to
interview you.
2:19:35 (JO): Well, I appreciate you. Yeah, I really do. You’re welcome.
2:19:39 (MO): Thank you.
2:19:40 (JO): Uh-huh [in affirmation].