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HomeMy WebLinkAboutLarry Holt TranscriptionCity of College Station Heritage Programs Oral History Interviewee: Larry Holt Interviewer: Unknown Place: College Station, Texas Project: Mayors and City Council Transcriber: Brooke Linsenbardt 00:11: Larry Holt (LH): (Terry?) tells me his mother’s out at (Port? Fort Hudson?), or whatever it is, Park Hudson. Interviewer 2(I2): Oh is that right? Park Hudson, yeah. 00:16: LH: And (Steve Henry’s ?) mother’s out there now so B.C.’s. I2: Yeah. Sees them. 00:21: LH: Well yeah, he may bump, he hadn’t bumped into Steve yet, but I think he expects to. I2: Yeah. 00:28: LH: Because (Henry?) said he was now retired from the military and doing. I2: Yup. Yup. 00:32: LH: You heard that? I2: Yeah. Mrs. (Henry’s ?) very forthcoming with information about her son. [laughs] Interview 1 (I): Oh the, the side of the (word?). Well we are cleared for takeoff here so we are ready to go if you are. Interviewer 3: (I3): Okay. I, I am ready to go whenever y’all are ready. I: Okay well we’re going to start now. Our guest is Mr. Larry Holt, the son of (O.M. Holt?) who was mayor of the city of College Station from 1976 to 1980 and we appreciate your. 01:07: LH: Actually I think he was mayor from ’73 to ’75. I: ’73 to ’75? 01:13: LH: I think so. You might check your records there. I: I, I will. I’ll speak with my historian here. But in any event, what we’ll do when we are ready to put this out is we will show you as the son. 01:29: LH: Okay. I? And put his correct dates of service on there. 01:32: LH: Very good. I: Alright. And we’re going to use this as part of the city’s Project HOLD, which is the Historic Online Library Database and then it becomes available for current folks as well as future generations. Let’s talk a little bit about the process of running for office. What, what led to your father’s decision to, to run for office? 02:03: LH: My dad was involved in the, with the council during the sixties for some time before. And had sort of taken a break from city service. And he was actually encouraged by various people in the community to run you know. Some in the business community and some not in the business community. But he had had prior service and you know, due to some of the upheavals at the time, due to the attorney general’s opinion that some college professors could not serve. There was this turnover that I’m sure you’re documenting on the council. So there was, there was not gonna be a incumbent running and he was encouraged to run and he had an interest in city government so he chose to run. I: Did the family participate when he ran for office? 03:00: LH: Well I was, I was not living here at the time. My mother would not participate, no. My, my, my mother’s the was not a, was not a active political wife in that context. I: Do you have any vivid memories of the process of your dad campaigning? 03:29: LH: Well it was a contested election. It was one of the more intensely-collected, contested elections. And he only won by something like sixteen votes. He might have been the, it might have been the closest election in College Station history for my-mayoral standpoint. So it, it was pretty active. I mean for that day in time, before that time, you know the city was pretty much you know, just kind of whatever your turn is, who was gonna sort of get up and get to the, get to bat, it was your turn. But it was pretty contested. They had advertising campaigns. I mean, even that early. Radio spots, which was of course the big media. And it was fairly hotly contested. I: What do you think gave him the edge to win? 04:22: LH: Oh I, we had lived here since 1949 and he, he just kind of knew a lot of people and he’d been serving there in the past. He’d, he’d, he’d had several years of service on the council. I: There’s a saying that all politics is local and would you tell us from your perception how local politics has changed from the time of your dad to today? 04:54: LH: In some ways it’s, in some ways it’s changed and some ways it hadn’t. The, the issues facing the city then and now are pretty much some of the, are some, some of the issues are the same which is how, how do you accommodate growth. The growth was just starting then, starting to move south and so those issues were, were prominent then as now. I think the biggest difference between politics then and now, and this, I’m just speaking from somebody, just a citizen who lives here, sort of a, sort of the intense acrimony sometimes you get from the population. The lack of respect that the citizenry as a whole seem to hold from people holding elected office. The di-, the instability of, of discourse especially directed at, at people in public service. And I find that to be the biggest and most disturbing difference. I: How did your father get along with other members of the city council? 06:00: LH: Well they were, most of them were his friends and he knew them well. I don’t, I can’t remember, I can’t remember not getting along with, with anybody. They didn’t agree was, they didn’t always agree. Here again he served way back in the sixties, some of the council members had you know, different personalities and approach to matters. Some of them were very close, personal friends of his like (Nikki Holleman?), that they named Holleman Street after. He had a, you know dad was kind of a bridge character between Mayor Langford’s era and then served on the council with people who served later, Larry Ringer and Gary Halter and people like that. But I think he uniformed and got along with pretty much everybody. I: Would that be true also of the city manager? 06:51: LH: He and, he and Ran Boswell were close. He had a great deal of respect for Ran Boswell who was the city manager at the time. I think you know, thought he was doing a comp-, a very (competent?) job. He was also fairly personally close to (Louie Delaney?) who was city, I’m not sure exactly what title Mr. Delaney had but he was, he was the city engineer at the time. And he was well acquainted with those people. Did not have a full-city attorney at the time and he was well acquainted with the city attorney they kind of had on a contractual basis in the sixties. They had (Don, Dylan, and Vass?) and on the (Don Gemislaw?) advised for (them?). And, but he got along well with all those folks. I: The university has been central to College Station ever since its beginning and part of the history of the, of the city has been migrating from receiving city services through the university. Did your father ever comment on the progression of, of College Station attempting to become independent not only from the university, but then subsequently from Bryan? 08:16: LH: Oh yeah. He was involved, he was all involved in that transition you know, very closely. The relationship with A&M is as you know, as you described, it’s you know, been central to the existence of the city. I think his view was that at sometime the city was you know, good neighbor, sometimes it was not. He had a relationship and during, when he was on the council in particular you know, he was working for the university, and he had, he had a relationship with General Rudder as the employer, employee. But I have to say that General Rudder handled those relationships like he did most other things, in the highest degree of, of professionalism and respect. They sort of negotiate over the location of George Bush Drive. The General was interested in having George Bush Drive extend out to the airport at the time and it needed expansion and he needed city cooperation to, to do the expansion. And, and you know, I think General Rudder exceeded every kind of request that the city had. You know, that’s on a positive and I think on a negative they didn’t just, the, the, the, the university sometimes you know, put up road blocks regarding, would not participatory like in sewage treatment efforts on the side of the county that drained to the Brazos River. That was and remains kind of a problem to the development to the west. The university controlled all that land and hasn’t always been helpful in community issues. I: Speaking about your father’s views of the relationship between the city of Bryan and the city of College Station. 10:18: That was sometime a little more contentious. That was, they were in the process of sort of separating their services at the time you know, water and power. And that relationship had a little more friction to it. I don’t think from the city, Bryan city leadership, the elected officials, I don’t think there’s a, a lot of friction. I think there was friction, there was starting to be friction then at the staff level that you know, we unfortunately experienced up until recent times. I: Did your father attempt to bridge what was staff, what was this other staff problems by trying to reach out to Bryan’s elected leadership? 11:09: LH: I think they would probably view as mostly friction coming from the Bryan side so I don’t think he needed, I don’t think, but that’s, that was sort of his perception. I don’t think that he felt like that at least under his brief tenure, that it was not, it was, didn’t emanate from Ran Boswell. I: Are there any special issues that your father spoke about or experienced that would relate to being the mayor of a university town? 11:48: LH: You know, I don’t really think so. I mean it was, that was just kind of the way it was. I think it, and it was, it was, that’s kind of the major industry. You know, I don’t know if it reflect of his views or mine growing up here, but I think the predominate issue at that time was the fact that your largest employer was tax-exempt. So your tax-base from both a school standpoint and a city standpoint was negatively impacted by that since it was, you had to kind of raise your revenue from, from other services. Thankfully as years has gone on, as developed has occurred, development has occurred, that problem’s been ameliorated somewhat. But I think he was aware that to get your tax base up, to provide adequate services, that, that the city was gonna have to accommodate some growth. That view wasn’t always shared by everybody and still not. I: How much did services expand during your father’s tenure? 13:06: LH: Well I think they, they started, I don’t remember, I think they may have gotten their first deal with Gulf States Utility about that time. I don’t really recall, I don’t recall when somewhere along this time frame they started getting their own water supply. Or at least the water distribution system so. I can’t, I can’t recall what, when in the sequence of time, when all those services came on. I: Now you made reference to development being important for the tax base, especially with the non-taxable largest employer. There’s always been a dynamic tension between the developers and neighborhoods, was it visible during your father’s tenure as mayor? 13:59: LH: There wasn’t that much conflict. There was some. I think it’s, you know, neighbors were trying to protect their neighborhoods. I think in as a, just a historical aside, I think when he was on the city council, Culpepper Center was being developed and it kind of a-budded up next to a residential neighborhood. There, what is now George Bush East. And development, that was a big commercial development, it, it still is. And I think he thinks that, that the city made a mistake of which he was participatory in, in placing Dominik too close to the intersection of, of what is now George Bush and Texas Avenue. But the tension was there. You know, he, he, he thought they got that one wrong. You can still see lots of cars stacking up there. I: You certainly can. Did your family that College Station was hampered in any way by not having an identifiable downtown? 15:16: LH: I don’t think so. I mean that’s kind of just kind of the way it was. I mean you know, he had gone to school here in the early forties so he’d kind of, I mean, he, he had seen a lot of history there. And that was just, that was just kind of the way it was. I mean that’s the nature of the town was, it built up around the university. I: Transportation always a, a point of interest in any growing community. How did your father feel about that and how the city was handling its transportation needs? 15:54: LH: I think he thought it was, not public, I, I don’t ever remember a conversation about public transportation. Certainly there were streets and, and byways that need to be developed and I think he was an active participate in, in that. And you know, the two of course, biggest things of that era was the construction of the bypass and also the other big one was the extension of University Drive. You have to kind of, kind of hard to remember but where University Drive connects to the, to the east with all the Hilton and the restaurants and all that sort of thing, that when I was growing up here, it pretty much stopped there. And at the corner of what is now university, then called (Surfer Springs?), there was a, a grocery store where the U-Rent-Em(?) is now called (Maze’s Grocery Store?). And they had to lop off some of Mr. (Maze’s?) Grocery Store parking lot there which created a little. I: I’m sure Mr. (Maze?) wasn’t happy about that. 17:00: LH: Mr. (Maze?) was not happy about that, no. But Mr. (Maze?) ended up with a pretty good, nice piece of property at the corner of Texas and what is now University. So tho-those were the biggest things going on then was the extension of University and you know, the construction of the bypass. I: The city has a really strong parks service now. Did your father support the parks service? 17:36: LH: he did, but I don’t think it was, certainly didn’t end up. I can’t attribute any, I mean some of that came kind of after his time, all the, the big parks with the Central Park and I, I’d like to give him credit for that but I just can’t. I: What about, were there any preservation efforts to mark the historic buildings like the first city hall or any? 18:03: LH: Can’t think of a one. I: Okay, okay. How about the library? 18:08: LH: That was all of course Bryan. I mean if there was a library, there was no, that was a service that the, that the the College Station did not have. I: So folks essentially went into Bryan? 18:21: LH: Well actually I don’t think, I, no, I think actually what folks did, they went to the Cushing Library on Texas A&M campus. I can you know, remember when I was in high school and below, if you had any research project, the university was very accepting of the population using their library. I think the advent of neighborhood libraries is just kind of the necessity of that sort of arisen just because of the sheer inability to get on campus anymore and park. But in times past, all those A&M facilities were, were broadly available to the public at large. I: We talked about the relationship between Bryan and College Station, being sometimes up and down and, and sometimes missed understandings between the staffs driving some of the bad feelings. What about the relationship of the city of College Station with Brazos County? 19:31: LH: If was, I don’t think there was much acrimony, but I think there was pressure and I think my father was interested in others trying to get services to be rendered further south. And you know, I think there was talk that never occurred. And I think it probably, I mean still probably a good idea of having some sort of court house annex down, down this way. But I think they had conversations all along about the county being attentive to College Station’s end of the, end of the county. I: But nothing? 20:11: LH: But nothing really. I: Materialized? 20:13: LH: No, nothing. Well I mean, the county’s you know, done what it’s supposed to do. But I, I think at some time probably having a court annex with, like you see in other bigger counties, is something that’s probably a good idea. I: What would you consider your father’s greatest achievements during his life of public service? 20:35: LH: I, I think getting the utilities, his participation in getting College Station to have some, more of a stand-alone utility system. You know I think it, it’s, I, I think trying to be tied into another political entity has, has its limitations. I: Were there things that your father felt strongly about that, that he still wasn’t able to achieve? 21:08: Uh. Well. No. I don’t think he viewed things, I think, I don’t know if he had that great of long range view on things. I think he was just doing his turn at bat, trying to, trying to do his part for the community that had you know, been good to us all. I: Did he enjoy being mayor? 21:34: LH: He enjoyed being mayor up to a point. He was kind of a outspoken sort of guy and in some ways and I don’t think he enjoyed, I don’t think he particularly enjoyed what interplay he had with the press. And I don’t, and, and, and my mother sure didn’t enjoy getting calls about loose dogs but. I: But they called nevertheless. 22:05: LH: They called nevertheless. I: They called nevertheless. 22:07: LH: You know one caller would say, “Well I’m not going to vote for him next time.” And she said, “I’m not sure I am either.” [chuckle] I: [laughs] Well wonderful. 22:18: LH: But she was a school teacher and she could handle difficult. I: it was, it was. 22:22: LH: Yeah it wasn’t, it wasn’t a problem. I: [laughs] Dear me. When your father left the position of being the mayor, did he have any trouble making the transition back to a more ordinary life? 22:40: LH: No, my dad, my dad was one of these retired people who said he didn’t know how he held a full-time job when he was working. So he had business interests, he was involved in other entities. So he, he kept plenty busy. I: Well what did he do other civic duties once he, once he finished being mayor? 23:04: LH: Well he was, I don’t think they got, I don’t think he, he was involved in, there was after he left, I think there was some things that didn’t happen. There was a, I think, he was nominated I think for an airport authority board except he won that election except, the election to create the authority failed. So that didn’t happen. There may be, or maybe that was also true with the junior college district that didn’t happen. But he, he kind of kept his, kept his hand in affairs. And I may have all that historically wrong. It was either one or both of those that where he got elected to a board of a non-existing entity. I: [laughs] I’m sure. That’s a won-, what a wonderful distinction. Are there any questions about your father that I haven’t asked that you think we should. 24:08: LH: No not really. I will say that he was one of the, you know, if you asked about his character, he was one of the, I was fortunate to have him as a father. He was a very fine, very intelligent you know, very sort of empathetic kind of guy. So I was lucky to have him and College Station was lucky to have him, in my opinion. I: What a wonderful way to end this interview. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. 24:41: LH: Well thank you. I: We’re honored to have you and, and I’m sure that your father is delighted. I’d bet he’d watch it. 24:48: LH: I hope so. I: I hope so too. Thank you. 24:51: LH: Thank you. I: Very much. I3: That was good Larry.