HomeMy WebLinkAboutEarly Education II Panel Group 8 Fran Dodson
Dick Birdwell, Joyce Birdwell, Jack Grant, Knox Walker
Kymberli Rucker
Richard Molina
Conference Center, Room 101
FD Is everyone here? Born and raised?
DB Not born here, but we used to walk?
FD I know ya'll have.
KW Where do you want to start?
JB Oh, you ready for us to start. I'm still getting all my things together.
FD That's ok, wi'll wait.
FD Thank you. Ok, now. Would you like to introduce yourself?
KW I'm Knox Walker, I was born in Bryan late 1927, my parents and I lived on the campus om Lubbock
Street, now Joe Routt; and my Father was a civil engineer with the branch schools. We remained living
there until A & M kicked everyone off the campus in the late 1930's. We left in 1940 and moved to the
edge on Bryan. So anyway I was there about thirteen years. Anything else?
FD That's fine, thanks.
JB I'm Joyce Patranella Birdwell, and I was born in Tarrent County. Moved to College Station in 1934 -35.
DB 31.
JB No,(Laughter) I was born in 31. And my father has the first grocery staor in Northgate. I went to the A
& M Consolidated School system. Graduated from A & M Consolidated High School. Fine.
DB I'm Dick Birdwell. I moved to College Station with my family in 1945. My father was manager of the
Shing Store at A & M, what was called Shing Store now is called University Bookstore.
JG I'm Jack Grant. I was born in Flinn, Texas in 1930 and in 1935 we moved to Bryan. My daddy had the
first Gulf station on what is now University Drive was then called Schulfer Spring Road. Uh, strange I
don't remember moving, even at the age of five. I guess it wasn't very iimportent (Laughter). Went to
Consolidated up to the 9th grade and transferred to Bryan High for some unknown reason, and finished at
Bryan High School.
FD Interesting. Can ya'll tell us how you got to school?
JG I'm Jack Grant. I walked because we was about what four blocks from the school. From the chicken
house is what we called them (laughter). Eventually probably got a bicycle and rode most of the time. It
was going back and forth to school.
DB I'm Dick Birdwell. I lived one block from Jack, and I also walked to school, walked past his house
across the vacant lot in order to get there.
JG Cut across the street in folks yard.
DB Yea, right. Some where along the way I got a motorcycle I think about my sopphomore year in high
school. Not a motorcycle, a motor scootter actually and so I rode that motor scooter back and forth to
school.
KW Let me break in here because we're talking about schools, two different kinds of schools. In early
1940 Consolidated School left the campus; it was on the east end of Lubbock Street, and they moved that
school over there where we are now, on George Bush. I went to school at both locations. Many kids went
to the grade school which was on campus and the high school, which was on campus too, until the spring of
40, and then we moved to George Bush.
JG I'm Jack Grant, I went to the one on the campus for the first year uh, and they built the new dorm. Is
that what they called the old band hall at one time too? And we had to walk all around because the sheep
pasture was in the way and had probably another mile to go around that thing. But most of us walked. I
walked to school. I couldn't afford a bicycle. I did afford a motor scooter to cut down on bus fare. Ah,
going to Bryan High, which likke to killed me on the highway, had accidents running into cars and back of
buses, and stuff likethat.
FD Did ya'll have brothers and sisters?
JG I had a brother, an older brother that went to high school on the campus.
FD Did anyone ride horses to school or have to cross creeks or rivers or anything like that?
KW Sometime the school buses did.
FD School buses did. Umm and I guess all your parents and other relatives lived here with you. Umm
we've already talked I think about how your family happened to get to this area. Ya'll have a lot of
proprietor from mom's and dad's didn't you? Do you still relatives living here in this area?
DB Yea, I'm Dick Birdwell, Joyce's mother has been a resident of College Station since 33, 32, 31.
JB Char Durman.
DB Built a house on Guernsey Street.
FD What was her name?
DB Elsie.
JB Patrenella Sauer, Sauer.
FD I don't think know her.
JB She's in a nursing home at Southwood in College Station.
FD Umm. What were the roads like in the surrounding areas?
JG Ah, the roads primarily in the neighborhood was gravel or dirt roads. Eventually had asphalt around
the community on South Oakwood and eventually did that oon College Hills, but most of it was gravel.
FD What about between College Station and Caldwelll? College Station and Houston?
JG It was Highway 6, one lane almost.KW It was concrete, it was very, very narrow and no shoulder.
FD Can you remember what some of the first paved streets around this area were?
DB Ah, Dick Birdwell, the significant thing about the A & M campus
and highways is sometime in the early 30's, I don't know the exact date, Highway 6 was moved from
what's now Wellborn to what's now Texas Avenue and the campus was actually turned around. The front
of the campus faced on Highway 6 and the railroad station and that was an asphalt road back then, and in
33 or 34, I don't remember at the time but somewhere in that time Highway 6 was built where it is now.
KW It was about 37, Bill.
DB And it was built as a concrete highway. When I moved to College Statin in 1945, there was no curb
and gutter anywhere in College Station.
FD In 1945?
DB With the possible exception of at Northgate, here may have been some curbe and gutter at the front of
the stores then. That was a gravel street though, but all the roads except for Highway 6 which was concrete
and Wellborn Road which was asphalt was graveled.
FD Umm.
KW A.large number of the streets on the campus weren't paved until 1932 or 1933. I remember when that
happened.
FD And you think that was the first.
KW Well, you know that Highway 6 was paved. But most of the streets on campus like Lubbock Street
where we lived was mud, gravel and cinders until 1932 -33. I remember this distinctly as a small kid. The
main entrance from the west side was paved, of course there wasn't any Eastgate. There weren't any roads
going out to Highway 6. So most of the streets on the campus were simply gravel and mud and cinders,
because coal was burned to generate power at the power plant. Old highway 6 was a dangerous affair; the
shoulders sloped severely. So you had to drive that car right down the middle of the raod or you were going
to go off in a ditch. I don/t know why they built those thing like that. And the concrete wasn't white, it was
gray funny looking stuff.
FD Do ya'll remember your parent's automobiles, anything about that? What they might have paid for
their first cars?
DB When we moved here we had a 1938 Plymouth, this was 1945. So it was seven years old. Nobody
between 1941 and 1946 bought a car because they didn't manufacture any cars. They were manufacturing
airplanes and tanks. And I remember that we bought a 1946 Ford and this was something you put your
name on a list and waited to get them. I think it was late 1946. And I think we paid $ 11,000, I think that
was the price. Brand new four door, V -8 Ford Sedan and it was the first time I'd ever seen a car without
running boards (Laughter) . Moved the doors out and made them a little wider.
KW Added the trunk and took away the running boards. ( Laughetr).
FD And who used that automobile the most and who drove it?
DB Ah, when I got my drivers license I drove it. It was the only car we had. We had only one car in the
family.
FD Did your mom drive?
DB My mother drove and my father.
FD And what about gasoline? Do you remember how much gasoline might have been back then?
KW Nineteen cents a gallon.
JG Jack Grant, daddy had the station and the first pumps he had you had to pump up by hand and they were
still selling white gas for the T- Models and the Model -A. Uh, daddy had bought, I don't know, probably a
1930 Chevy hard top and then he also back in 1940 I think he bought a Ford Pickup to make deliveries on
campus. He would tell people who worked on campus that he would contract for the service on their
vehicles. So the professor would drive to the campus, call daddy on the phone that he needed his car
worked on, daddy would drive the Ford up there and they would pickup the car, bring it back to the station,
service it and get it back up there for him to leave at dinner time. The cars were always busy. A driver
would come by and say I need this tire changed or something and one of the attendents would get in the car
and go to the person's work, let him go to work and bring the car back to the station and then they would
deliver it back to them.
FD So they really serviced their customers back then. That was nice.
KW His father only had one competitor; his name was John Bravenec. They were the two serious people
that ran filling stations. Your dad had about half of the business and Mr. Bravenec had the other half.
JG Well I think he had all the Universiy, had full service contract offered. I think one year, all the time he
was here, he lost it one year to Mr. Bravenec.
FD And he had the Gulf Station?
JG Bravenec had Siinclair.
FD And what year did your dad open that station?
JG It was probably 1935, 36 cause thatis when we moved here. Ah, probably here because of prohibition.
Prohibition got so bad around Flinn and bootlegging and everything we had to move out of there
(Laughter).
JB Joyce Patrenella Birdwell, our family had a personal car. My father had a pickup truck for Luck's
Grocery, because in those days you ordered your grocery by phone and you charged them and he would
deliver them to the house.
FD Oh, that's nice. And where was your family store located?
JB In Northgate.
FD Northgate, Umm.
KW The last time we did this, I talked about her dad in his position in the commumity, all the things he did,
that's all recorded in the previous interview. Your dad was a philanthropist. He was always interested in
doing things for the commumity. I know that helped business, but he still wanted to do that, that's the way
he was.
FD That's great!
KW There weren't many people like that around here.
FD That's wonderful! Now you probably have sisters and brothers?
JB No, I'm the only child.
FD Are you really? Well, I'm thinking about all these other Patranellas that I know that you sort
of remind me of. It asks here about drivers licenses and how old you were when you got it. You said when
you got your drivers license Mb. Birdwell, you were able to drive that, was that a new car that ya'll got?
DB Yea, the time I got really old enough to drive it wasn't new.
FD It was 46 you say?
DB It was brand new when we got it.
FD How old were you when you got that drivers license?
DB Sixteen same as now. I was in at A & M Consolidated. I was in the first class they ever had for Drivers
Education. But Knox's brother and I and two girls were in this class, it was four of us that took drivers ed
at A & M Consolidated and we had Carber Sheer Chevrolet furnished that car that was equipped with dual
steering wheel and dual brakes so the instructor could sit on the right hand side while
you were sitting on the left and you did something wrong, well he couldtake over the driving. Seems to me
that was like a course that lasted maybe two months, ah once a week for two months.
FD And Mr. (Audible) had furnished that car?
DB And we did a lot of the driving and eventually took the test and went down all four of us together to
the State Office. I don't remember where it was we took our tests to get our drivers licenses. We were all
between 16 and 17 years old at that time.
FD Do ya'll remember trips out of town, with your family and how long it took you to get there? Did you
go to Houston?
DB Yea, we would go to Galveston. I remember our trips tp Galveston. Wha I remember about our trip to
Galveston, was how long it took you to get through Houston. You went to Washington Street in Houston
and out Telephone Road on the other side.
KW Everybody had a different route.
DBB But it was 45 minutes from one side of Houston to the other, and Houston wasn't near as be then as it
is now. You can get across Houston a lot faster than what you could in 1945. Occasionally, I remember
going to Austin to see the State Capitol.
JB How long did it take you to drive to Houston?
KW Took an hour to get through Houston.
JB No, to Houston?
KW Two and a half hours.
DB You'll be in downtown Houston.
FD Were you going to the beach when you went to Galveston?
DB Yea, yea sure.
JG I'm Jack Grant, most of the time we visited anywhere was to my grandmothers, which was in
Madisonville, Centerville and Leona. And it was in a 1939 Chevrolet. Daddy was a Chevrolet man, other
than he had four pickups for service. I don't know why. Most of our trips were going to Houston to see
my uncle, he lives in Fairbanks, which is this side of Houston. And it took about two and a half
hours to get there because we didn't drive very fast. And ah, we went by the Owl, which took about four
hours to Houston by train. Ah, it stopped like a Greyhound Bus. It stopped every place (Laughter). It was
cheap, gosh I don't know how much. It was right downtown Houston when you got there, that's where the
train station was.
FD The whole family will get on the train.
JG You could go and shop and everything else. You almost had to spend two days just to go to Houston,
because it was four hours to go down. I mean gee -whiz, you didn't have that much time if you had to come
back the next next time.
JB It took up most of your day.
JG Or come back that night and get back maybe about 3:30 or 4:00 in the morning. It stopped more often
at night than is did in the day time and was real slow, but it was efficient.
KW The highway that my mother came in on from Galveston in 1922 to work on campus was not paved
all the way. In 1922 part of it was graveled.
FD It was a rough trip.
KW Part of it was paved, part of it wasn't.
FD Do ya'll remember people having car pools to get to class at A & M? Did people get togethet and car
pool then?
DB A lot of people walked to class you know from where Jack and I lived. It was pretty close to a mile to
the main part of the campus, but it was a lot of people that walked back and forth. Jack was talking about
the train about riding the Owl. There were two trains. The Owl was one train and the other was the
Sunbeam. You can get from here to Dallas on the Sunbeam in three hours. If you went here to Dallas on
the Owl the Sunbeam 00000000nly stopped in
KW Always stopped.
DB It stopped in Corsicana.
KW Later on they didn't stop anywhere.
DB But the Owl stopped at every crossing. And it wasa sis to sevenhourr ride to Dallas.
JB Twice as long.
JG Do ya'll remember the Silver Zeppher? It came through North Zulch. We rode over there and looked
at it one time. That was the first streamline train.
FD Now where did you catch the Zepher?
KW In North Zulch.
JG It didn't come through Bryan, though it was almost worth the drive to get on it.
KW Well the Sunbeam was still a steam engine.
JD What was the Owl?
KW Steam but it was streamlined. They weren't these black raw -iron looking things.
JG The Sunbeam was orange and black and it had fenders over the wheels and was a real streamlined
looking train. It was a fine way to go to Dallas.
FD How much did it cost you to go to Dallas?
JB I went to collge at TSCW in Denton and we took the Sunbeam to Dallas and it was about $ 12.50 round
trip.
FD Round trip?
DB And a pie?
KW The most comfortable thing.
FD Was it?
KW Go down to the coffee shop and be served coffee in the little silver things. Yea, it was elegant.
FD Oh, that sounds nice.
DB The Zepher he's talking about at North Zulch, that train continued to run until wellinto the 60's. I used
to work from 1950 -60. I worked in Bryan for a consultant firm and my boss didn't believe in flying and
when we had business trips he'd send us to North Zulch and we'd catch the Zepher. I'd frequently catch it
in North Zulch, ride to Houston and change trains and then go on to New Orleans. I don't know when they
discontinued that train, but it was well after 1960.
KR Spell the name of the train.
DB Zepher?
KR Un hu.
DB Zepher. They called it the Silver Zepher.
KW State of the Art.
FD State of the Art. And the Sunbeam was orange and black? With what kind of fenders?
DB Well, it had a lot of trim on it that they normally have on a normal train.
KW We, my father and I would go down to Wellborn and race it back half way to College Station.
JG Well this is the time that A & M went to Baylor with the canon and got out there and (Audible) railroad
ties and stopped the train near College Station and loaded the canon on the flatbed and (Audible) Baylor
away with the canon.
FD Oh my God.
DB Finally the Texas Rangers finally stopped them I think somewhere in there. They were really serious
about it.
FD This were out on the track?
I
it
DB They commandered the train. The Aggies did. Senio got out there in his boots and saber waived it
around. They stopped the train and loaded that canon on there and took the train over, took the railroad
ties off and went on.
JB They would also bring the train in here from Houston for the football games and had many cars and the
people would come to the ball games.
JG Then they'll bring the women from TSCW by bus, Greyhound Bus..
FD Bring them in for the game.
JG Most of the travel was by hitchhiking, whenever they'd open up the new main entrance. The Aggie
Mothers Club built benches out in front for all the Aggies to sit on while they waited to hitchhike to go to
Houston, Dallas. They would get one person out there to hitchhike, and a car would stop and they'd say
how many, where to; and they'll call it out and the next person in line would get the ride.
FD I understand that was the major way to get around.
JG They would introduce you, "I'm fish so and so ". And so you know they're real popular to pick up an
Aggie because they were so polite. Most of their transportation was hitchhiking.
FD You said the Aggie Mothers Club provided benches out there.
JG Well, they built benches. That's what they called it then. Yeah, great big long benches.
KW I really don't remember, but I remember the benches.
JG There was a designated place at Eastgate where you supposed to stand in line and wait, and it was
strictly first come first serve. Seniors that got there, eveything else at A &M seniors got privileged, but not
on hitchhiking. We (Audible) whoever got there was first line, whoever came up later was second in line.
It would'nt be unusual for there would be thirty-five or forty people in line at noon on Saturday. Classes
lasted at noon on Saturday and you would like thirty-five or forty people.
FD And this was to get home?
JG To go to Houston for the weekend to have a date or to go home for the weekend.
JB And go to Denton.
DB Or go to Denton DSCW, football games, go on football games out of town.
KW (Audible) I was talking about this elegant car. Let me go back to cars, I can't forget those things. Ah,
Dr. Richie, Packer Robins egg blue magnetic probably about a 1927, probably right out of the great gasket.
But across the street from us E.L. Williams lived. they had a toring car, too, but it did'nt look like Dr,
Richie, it was a Studebaker about 1927 model and what I remenber first was already dilapedated rusty and
they continue to drive that thing right up to World War I or World War II; but they kept it in the garage and
it apparently they they could'nt take the key, or the key stayed in the automobile and one of the Dean
Winkler, hell raising son Matthew, used to come over at night, slip in there and start that thing up and take it
and run around the campus and put it back. And one time in the late 30's we all piled in that piece of junk
to go to the movies at the Palace and every time Jane Williams, would slow up, the engine would die, so we
got things started and she was'nt going to slow up at that time they just put the first stop sign between Old
College road and the new highway 6. We went up to that thing and she ran that stop sign and there was
copy on a motorcycle right behind us and here we went down to College Avenue and cops chasing us and
kids were hollering in the back seat, they had it rough now. The policeman"s cap blew off and we saw that
and we told Jane Williams, and she turned on a side street and angled around and ended up at the campus
palace and went to the theater, no arrest. (Laughter) That was Studebaker touring car.
DB Know, somebody on campus had a Rolls Royce that was about a 1930 or earlier. I remember seeing it.
The thing that was unusual about it, the only thing that you could hear (End of Tape 1 Side A)
KW Bill Lankaster would know. He always picked up on the model and ages of cars.
DB The only thing you would hear when that car came by was the tires making noise on the pavement,
because the engine was just whisper quiet.
KW That was'nt a norm, though. It was a cheap automobile cars you drove for ten years.
DB Most people had model days.
KW It was a cheap automobile cars you drove for ten years.
DB Most people had model days.
KW ea, just keep it going in the 30's that's what they did.
JG There was always something unique about automobiles on campus. Whenever they would have yell
practice and somebody's car was left in the area where they were having yell practice, they "Aggies" would
get the freshmen to pick up the car and put it in between the two trees ( Laughter) they was spaced and you
could'nt get it out unless,
FD Wedged it in there.
JG They just picked it up and set it in between there and it stayed until you got enough Aggies to pick it
back up and take out.
FD Oh my God.
JG So you made sure that you did'nt park your automobile where there was an activity that might be in
away, because it would get put in between the tree.
KW The Aggies were landed a remarkable like of all the crap they pulled this place.
FD They could do anything could they?
They would go over to the train station and comandeer these great big wagons with these big old iron
wheels they used to haul freight, and they would go over and get those things and use them for their
activities on the campus.
JG To haul the wood?
KW Yea, that was hunky -dory.
JG They would go all the way to the Brazos River on there and put those big logs on them and they took
the Aggies to court.
FD Did they take them back?
JG They were baggage cars.
KW I guess they did. (Laughter) They did what they did nearly.
JG They were baggage cars .
KW Baggage cars, yea.
FD Do you remember where? Speaking of those trains again, where the freight cars loaded and unloaded
along the track?
JG It was at the other end of the same building where the passengers (Audible). There was something that
nobody knew very much of there was a turn around here at A &M.
FD What was that?
JG That's where the train can change directions.
FD Where was that?
JG You didn't know that? It's almost where the old train station, I mean the newer one they put down
there. What it is , is a Y it comes up this way and comes back. They could drive up there put engine and
the engine backup and turn around and head backs. It was a turn around. Ah, somewhere in the, I had a
map but I don't know where it is though; but somewhere at the university library there's a map put out by
the Aggie Corp in thew back in. I tried to date it back in the 20's sometime where all the buildings were
and Cashion Cabins was and all those kinds of things. Shows this turn around and it's a Surveying Map
done by the Military Department. It's in the library probably in archives somewhere. It shows all the
streets (Audible) back then and where I had a copy of that map. I had to xerox it in sections and I put it
together.
KW Well I (Audible) with just a little Y like that could turn those things around.
JG It's a Y. You would back out in the Y and pull out the Y the other direction.
KW Would'nt you have to keep going back and forth one time? I never saw them turn anything around,
but I guess they did.
JG Yea, it was a turn around here. There also used to be a (Audible) that ran on campus that went to the
power plant where they hauled in coal. When I first came here the only time they used coal was when the
weather was cold. They had converted to natural gas, but when the weather got cold, gas would get turnrd
off, and they would convert to coal and black smoke started pouring out of those two holes. I guess they're
both smoke stacks. There used to be two tall smoke stacks at the power plant?
KW They brought natural gas into the community I think in 1931. I talked with Bill Scoates. His dad used
to be head of Ag. Engineering Department.
DB Bill Scoates.