HomeMy WebLinkAboutEarly Education II Panel Group 4GROUP 4
HAZEL VON ROEDER
JIM LANCASTER
WILLIAM BREAZEALE
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees,lrom all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
IJ40viewep/ (Plepse print)
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Name
Address
Telephone �/
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Place of Birt
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Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind; attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
(-�'J
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CM, its officers, agents and employees, ('tom all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
—� i L
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nterviewee int)
ature of Interviewee
Name
Address _
&yS 7 r �►. xi 7 �70�
Telephone
Date of Birth - Z �
Place of Birth , -_
Interviewer (Please Print)
Signature of Interviewer
Place of Interview
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
In progress
List of photos, documents, maps, etc.
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind; attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees,' all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
' 3
Interviewee (Please print)
Signature of Intern ewee
Name
Address _ _
C <� LZ� �7(� � r � 177?
Telephone j
Date of Birth 1-
Place of Birt
Interviewer (Please Print)
Signature of Interviewer
Place of Interview
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
In progress
List of photos, documents, maps, etc.
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind; attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
1
This is the Conference Center in College Station and this is an oral history
memory lane oral recording session and we are concerned primarily with the oral
history of College Station, but not necessarily that. My name is Bill Lancaster, I
am moderator of this group of three. We will now ask each person to identify
themselves primarily to get a name with the voice. So Hazel, tell us again who
you are.
HVR - OK, I am Hazel Royder Von Roeder, class of 1940.
JL - I am Jim Lancaster, class of '43. I now live in Austin, Texas.
WB - I'm W.G. Breezy Breazeale. I did not go to school at Consolidated, but
remember a lot about the first building they were ever in and I'd like to leave that
with the committee and have an early entry and discussion because I have an
11:30 appointment elsewhere. Thank you.
BL - All righty. Well, with that Breezy, why don't you just tell us about the school
when you came here. Tell us when you came here.
WB - I came here as a freshman, September 1931, and it was not my first trip.
had an older brother who was class of 1930 and he invited me over during the
winter of 1929 and `30 to see Arkansas play basketball. And, I rode a train from
Palestine to Hearne and the train from Hearne to College Station had gone so
corps of cadets picked me up and helped me hitchhike to the campus for my first
trip to see Arkansas play the Aggies.
BL - This was in 1929.
WB - In 1929 and just to add a little bit more to this story, when it come time to
go to the game they uh, it been pouring down rain all day, and they lived in the
shacks over behind Law Hall and they said we don't want to go to the game, so
they gave me a painted up, slickered raincoat and a campaign hat, and a
coupon book and told me to go to the game because I wanted to go, and to
make a long story short I got to the game, and I was barefooted because it was
pouring down rain, didn't even take my shoes with me, and the O.D. (Officer of
the Day) ticket taker at Deware Field House said you being a cadet we can't let
you in here you're barefooted. You're not in dress. So I explained my problem
to the OD and he said, "Well, wait around the corner a few minutes, I'll try and
get you in. So a little later on he come and got me in. Well, that was my first trip
to the campus. My second trip was to the turkey game in 1930. Rode a Model T
Ford over here. Crossed the Trinity River in a ferry boat. The same ferry boat
that I crossed when I came to school in `31 and graduated in `35 and the thing
that I remember I thought might help the committee is the first building that I
knew of as A &M Consolidated High School. My children went to school here at
this Community Center location. I've drawn a little sketch.
BL - Tell us about that.
WB - And somebody questioned where the streets went through. I don't know
where the streets were then, but this is about to where we were. Uh, this is the
Satellite Power Plant. This is the Trigon, that's the Physics Building, at the
present time. This is the corner, west corner of the one to 1 -12 Cadet Corps
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area. At present there was a two -story stucco building right here that was the
high school as I knew it. And across the street from it was a very popular place
and, I expect George McCullogh put it there because of the high school because
every body lived in the other area of the campus and most of the Confection
businesses went to Casey and Bill Sparks, Class of `20. (Jim Lancaster
questions this comment that McCulluogh built this after 1939, when dorms were
built.) They had the Confection in the YMCA basement. And everybody knew
they knew everybody and they knew who's credit was good and who's credit
wasn't good. So, I'm sure that's why Bill and George McCullogh built over here
and I'm sure the street wasn't Joe Routt then, but this is the Satellite Power
Plant, no windows or no doors in it. And that's uh, I don't know what that was.
I remember the old building that was red, white, or probably maroon and
white, two -story building that was the high school and out behind it here all the
way to present highway, Texas Avenue, were sheep, sheep and goat and cattle
pastures. They had there corrals in different areas and they had their pastures
out there. And before I left here, or soon after I left, they ran out of space and
the University let them use Pfieffer Hall and do I have the general location about
right from the Academic building to the Physics building? Did I spell it right?
BL - I don't know about the spelling.
WB - I looked in my Longhorn, back to `28 and I couldn't find it. Anyway, the
university let 'em.
HVR - It's Pfeuffer.
El
BL - Here it is.
WB - OK, let the committee correct that.
BL - Alright.
WB - Uh, the University let them use the building as I remember it but they had
condemned it. And so to make it a little bit safer they went in there and
reinforced it length wise about uh at the ceiling, near the ceiling, north and south
three times, at least three times cross ways. They braced it with rods. And the
reason I brought this was to demonstrate what a 3 3/4 inch steel rod looked like.
They were 3 3/4 inch in diameter and they put a big plate on the outside next to
the brick with an old rod nut. And they were 30 feet long, they lapped together
and welded them to get them to the length that they wanted, and pull that
building's height to where it was safe to use. That's Pfeuffer Hall. When they
tore it down I was working here, and I went over and talked to the contractor and
I said what are you going to do with all those 3 3/4 inch rods out there and he
says their going to the yard with junk just like everything else. I said," well
would you sell any of them before you send them to the junk man ?" He said,
" yes, I want a cent and a quarter a foot, all you can haul away ". He said, "what
do you have to haul it in ?" I said, "I don't have anything to haul but I'll put 3 or 4
in the street and drive my vehicle over and tie it to the front bumper and the back
bumper and take them home where I can cut and weld them ". So I, 1 made about
5 or 6 gates out of the 3 3/4 inch rods and I took a picture of one of them this last
weekend over at my ranch to bring to this meeting. Cause that's a 16 foot gate
6
made out of those 3 3/4 inch rods, heated it, welded it at the corner, bended it at
the corner, and then put net wire on it. And I have several of them in use. And
my reason for bringing this rod (a 3/4" birch dowel rod) is to demonstrate that,
because, I think of A &M Consolidated the old school every time I open that
gate. And I tried to get an angle there, it doesn't look like a 16 feet wide to get
closer. The gate closer is a piece of the rod that runs into a cross tie post with
the handles down, but, uh, that's about all I remember about the school being
there and then they moved to this area but when they moved out of that other
area I have no knowledge.
BL - Now, let me ask you this. When did you leave A &M? What did you do after
you graduated from A &M?
WB - I graduated in `31 and went into teaching and coaching in El Paso County
for 6 years. And before Pearl Harbor I was called in the military service and got
out in `45 and came back here and helped organize the first Department of
Student Affairs because of the returning Veterans. So I came back here on
November 1, 1945. Dough Rollins was the first dean, and he ran into my
department head, Dr. Ed Williams, over at Patranella's Grocery Store over
where the travel service is over there now and said I'm trying to put a staff
together do you know of anybody that I might get. And I was over in East Texas
at the time rebuilding the old family home, maw's place for my mother. He was
the only person that knew where I was and he said, I know where he is and I'll
tell you where he is, under one condition you tell me how much you going to pay
n .
him. And so Dough called me over there and I came over and visited with him
on a weekend and seen the Baylor game, which was the last part of October.
He offered me a job, with department of student affairs. Durward B. "Woody"
Varner, Class of `40 was assistant dean. Then Benny Zinn came along a little
later, was head of Student Affairs and organized it. And I worked in the Cadet
Corps for 2 years and they wanted me to wear a uniform because I was in the
National Guard. I asked to be relieved of that responsibility and they put me with
civilian students, so I moved my office to Puryear Hall. I spent many years there
in Puryear Hall and we had one dean about that time, a West Point General. He
and I did not agree on some of my philosophies, and so I resigned from the
department. I was interviewed and was accepted for the first full time manager
for the University's Mail service, and was there for 5 years and retired in 31 st of
August 1974 and haven't caught up since. But that's briefly my tenure here and
it's a wonderful place to live and this is a wonderful thing this committee is doing.
BL - Well tell me about your children at Consolidated school.
WB - I have 2 children they both graduated from here (A &M Consolidated), when
it was in this area (Community Center). Bill in `64 and Peggy was in `68.
BL - Now, that was the time they entered school all the city school system was
here on this property.
WB - That's right - This present location because I remember them talking about
the up side down swimming pool where the auditorium is. Any other questions?
BL - Uh, well
7
WB - I appreciate the opportunity to do this first because I have another
obligation. The, the Vice President of Student Affairs has a luncheon twice a
year for retired people that were in the department and that is a great collection
of people.
BL - I bet it is.
WB - John Koldus started it, and some of us continued. Any other questions?
hope these have been enough demonstrations to know what the rod looked like.
BL - That was an excellent demonstration. It sure is.
WB - It's been a pleasure.
BL - We'd like to have you stay. We many come across something else here in
a minute. Stay as long as you can.
WB - Keep that picture.
BL - And, uh, you know, something may come up in a little bit. If you need to go,
well go ahead stay a little while.
WB - I want to hear some more tales before I go.
BL - All right, Hazel lets hear about the Von Roeden family.
HVR - Oh, ok. Uh, I grew up in WellbornTexas. My first four years of school,
uh, I went to the Wellborn School which was a, you've heard of a one room
school house, but this was 2 rooms. We had a classroom and an auditorium.
Uh, my fourth year I was to go to Consolidated and the first day they decided
there was too many students in that class for one teacher. So they sent us back
to Wellborn and needless to say the teacher there was very unhappy that we
0
were sent back. So I started the Consolidated in the fifth grade and Mrs.
Davidson was my teacher. Uh, in the sixth grade Mrs. Sims was my teacher and
in the Seventh grade Mrs.Doake, Mrs. Berry, Mrs. Rogers and let me see there
was another one. We graduated from Seventh grade in high school. Then we
went to Pfeuffer Hall. As before was told it was a condemned dorm. And when
it would rain the walls would swell and they would drill a hole in them and the
water would pour out. We had some good times at Pfeuffer Hall.
BL - Did you ever take bricks out of the wall?
HVR - Well, I think there was a few bricks already missing. Uh, one thing that I
remember about the high school, it was most enjoyable because there wasn't
anyone else on the campus but cadets. They were all in uniform. And even
though you were supposed to be attending class, sometimes, you know, your
mind would wonder and you look out and there were all these nice looking
Aggies in their uniforms walking across the campus. My senior year was when
the school was moved to the present location. That was a frame building and it
had a music hall. We graduated in Guyon Hall, which I thought was really
something great. Some of the memories that I had back in grade school, uh,
was in the seventh grade. And one of the students and a teacher somehow got
into an argument. I don't know whether he was misbehaving or what, but the
teacher drew a circle, oh, by the way her name was Scott, Mrs. Scott. Drew a
circle on the board and told him to stick his nose in it. And he decided he wasn't
going to do that so they had a little hair pulling episode. Uh,
E
BL - Who was this student, now?
HVR - Beg your pardon.
BL - Who was the.... am I not supposed to say?
HVR - Well, he would probably tell you himself because we'd mentioned this at
our reunion that we had. He said oh he well remembered it. But I'd rather not
mention his name.
BL - Only reason I asked was because I thought you'd mention it, so don't say it.
Tell us about, uh, uh, well, of course College Station was little then and Wellborn
was what, oh, how many miles was Wellborn, from College Station.
HVR - Well, I think it was about 5 or 6 miles and of course we had to ride the
school bus into College Station. And as I said before um, I found out there was
two groups of children when I came to Consolidated, the Campus Kids, as we
called them, they , they were children of the professors at A &M and then there
was the Country Kids, and that was Wellborn and Peachcreek and uh, (Union
Hill )see, I guess that was all that, came to Consolidated.
BL - Of course the word Consolidated itself uh when this occurred, it gets back
to what you were asking about when this school system got that name, do you
have any idea, before your time here?
HVR - I really, I have no idea
BL - When uh consolidation actually took place. Apparently it was back in the
20's.
10
HVR - I do know that uh Wellborn at one time did have a high school. And that
building, was uh, part of it was torn down and then there was a remaining part
had an auditorium and the one room that, that I went to.
BL - Do you have any idea when it was high school?
RVIUMONNENT31 .. S
BL - Before your time?
HVR - Oh yes.
BL - Way before your time.
HVR -Way before my time.
BL - I guess it ceased to be a high school I guess when the consolidation took
place whenever it was. Well did, was most of your social life centered around
Wellborn pretty much or what was the relationship...?
HVR - There really wasn't much social life in Wellborn except, you know, going
to church, uh Sunday school church and uh training( ?) on Sunday night. Uh we
did uh, have (hay) rides and picnics. But uh, we'd also come in to Bryan to go
to the movies. My first movie that I remember was Shirley Temple, first talkie
rather, I did see some silent movies, but Shirley Temple, uh, I don't remember
the name of the movie but she sang on the Good Ship Lollipop. (It was) At the
Dixie theater and I think maybe I might have paid 10 cents to get in.
11
BL - Uh, well now as far as, back to this entertainment thing now, what time
would you get home from school after you came to College Station? When
would ya'll get home from school and what would happen when you did?
HVR - Oh uh, it would usually be, I would say around 4:30 uh because the bus
that we rode also had to go to Union Hill first. And uh, take students home from
Consolidated. And then when I got home of course there was work to be done.
BL - Now what did your family do, they run a farm?
HVR - No my father had a general merchandise store and my mother helped him
in that for a while but there was 6 children so she had her hands full, taking care
of children at home. And I was the oldest daughter so I had uh my work cut out
for me when I got home. Helping cook, wash dishes and then study.
BL - Just for my own information of course the Royder family is well known here,
now who are your brothers and sisters? Six of you all?
HVR - There were six of us yes. My oldest brother, (others) called him little
Sam, or we called him, my family called him Junior but he was, uh, his name was
Horace. And then I have a brother named Milfred who lives in Houston. Uh,
Horace is deceased, and uh, then there's Norman and he's deceased. I have a
sister named Jean Shaw who lives in De Soto and I have a brother Donald who
lives in Wellborn. I moved back to Bryan in 1963 and I've been back here ever
since.
BL - What was your father's name?
HVR - My fathers name was John S. Royder.
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BL - Was he a brother to Douglas Royder?
HVR - No, Douglas and my father were first cousins. Uh, the Adam Royder lodge
in Wellborn was named for my great grandfather.
BL - When did they come to this area was it way back there?
HVR - Oh, yes my, my, um, my great grandfather (Adam) and his mother
(Barbara) came from Germany when he was sixteen years old.
BL - Do you remember when that was about?
HVR - No.
BL - Back way back there.
HVR - Way back, yes. Um, after I graduated uh from consolidated in 1940 um I
stayed home for a year and then in 1941 1 went in nurses training. I'm a graduate
of Jeff Davis school of nursing. Uh I went into the service during W. W. II. 1 was
in the army nurse corps, I married a GI from Oklahoma was married 3 years and
he died of polio. Uh, in 1950 1 decided I wanted to go back in the service which
really enjoyed, and I transferred to the air force. I went to flight school and was a
flight nurse with the rank of captain during the Korean War. I've been in nursing
for 50 years, and I finally retired I thought, well, it's time to quit.
WB - Congratulations.
BL - You, you came back then to this area where you said....?
HVR - And then I came back (in December 1966). I've lived in various places as
uh I remarried the second time to a, was a pilot and uh after he got out of the
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service he crop dusted so we were in numerous states: Mississippi, Alabama,
Louisiana. But we came back here in 1966.
BL - So you've been back here a long time.
HVR - Yes. You know you always say growing up, oh, if I ever get away from
here I won't ever come back?
BL - Well that's...
HVR - It looks pretty good.
BL - Well that's interesting. You've not had children to come through the
consolidated.
HVR - Oh yes I have.
BL - Oh you have? OK well tell us about that then.
HVR - I had 3 Daughters, Um if I can remember what year they graduated now.
Um, Deann you remember Deann the moderator? I believe she graduated in
`72.
ML - They're our children's age.
HVR - (mumbles) Terrible not to know when your own daughter graduated, but I
don't remember exactly.
BL- Well you got a daughter who was with..... (Dee Ann)
HVR- Okay. Then my second daughter, Jill von Roeder died, when she was a
senior in high school in 1975. And then I have a daughter Penny uh, who
graduated from Consolidated, and the year I don't, I don't know. (1979)
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BL - (mumble)
HVR - And then, uh, both of them are graduates of A &M. They both married
Aggies. My oldest daughter lives here and uh, Penny, my youngest daughter
lives in Taylor. She's expecting her first baby and she's no I won't tell how old
she is. She probably wouldn't like that. But my daughter DeeAnn, uh, has 2
children and a stepdaughter. She lost her husband 4 yrs ago with cancer, and
uh, she remarried and she's has a very wonderful husband and a very nice step
daughter.
ML - She's our daughter Laura's age. They grew up together.
HVR - Oh yes, Laura yes.
ML - Good friends.
BL - Well?
HVR - So what year did Laura graduate?
ML -71.
HVR - 71 ? Well, I was way off wasn't I?
BL - Well you said `72. They may not have been together. They knew each
other.
HVR - Well, I know they were in Bells together
BL- Well, that's what I remember.
HVR- Um but I think they were in the same class.
ML - I think so.
15
HVR - Anyway we'll say the early `70's.
BL - That's good, that's good. Well, all right. We'll come back in a little bit, after
we go around the room some more. Get Jim can tell us about....
JL - Hazel made an interesting comment, I thought. She said that the school bus
carried her, went first from here to Union Hill.
HVR - Um -hum.
JL - Now Union Hill is about where Sulphur Springs and College Avenue run.
HVR - It turns....
JL - So, that's now in Bryan.
HVR - Yes.
JL - I don't know when that division was made.
BL - Uh, Union, we used to call uh Union Hill the Midway. Were they the same
thing?
JL - Pretty close to it. Midway addition was put in there.
BL - Those people went to uh Consolidated, uh somewhere.
JL - George Ayers who had the barbecue place? George at Midway. (mumbles)
BL - Kapchinski.
JL - Maybe George is wrong?
HVR - Martin?
JL - Across the street. What's the one across the street.
16
ML - Youngblood's?
JL & BL - Youngbloods!
HVR - Yes, Ben Youngblood.
JL - Ben Youngblood. He went to Consolidated.
HVR - Yes, he did.
JL - So, that was Union Hill.
BL - But know they, they became part of Bryan. Bryan annex, all of that I think,
just before World War II in `40 or `41, so it became Bryan at that time. And so
they um, um,
JL - But those kids went to Consolidated.
BL - Oh ya. That's right. But now, the school bus thing is interesting. They
didn't have but 1 or 2 school buses at the most and it had to do everything.
HVR - Well, believe it or not the first school bus I rode, it did not have glass
windows in it, it had flaps,that you roll up on the side. And then when we got a
brand new blue one that had glass windows in it, we thought we were in high
cotton.
BL - That first one was a Model T.
HVR - It was, and one bus driver we had was named Mr. Sykes.
BL - Well, was that Dr. Sykes?
HVR - Yes.
17
BL - All right. Now, was he superintendent or principal ever? Do you
remember?
70w iltil m•7
BL - Do you remember Mr. Sykes?
JL - I was trying to remember. I thought there was Mr. Gross.
HVR - There was a Mr. Gross.
JL - Gross was the principal, but I can't remember Mr. Sykes.
BL - Jon and James Sykes.
JL - Oh ya - I remember them.
BL - His daddy, their daddy was.
JL - Drove the bus. Isn't that interesting. He drove the bus.
HVR - I think later that Mr. Sykes was. Um ... (principal)
BL - All right. Do you remember a Mr. Parrot?
JL - My gosh. Was he connected with the school?
HVR- Ya.
BL - His name was S.V. Parrot.
HVR - Yes.
BL - Mother said that S.V. stood for Saint Valentine. Do you remember him?
JL - I remember him. I don't remember him working for the school. What did he
do? He's...( Lancaster later comments he thinks Mr. Parrot was one the school
board)
ilm
BL - You don't remember him with the school?
JL - No, I do not. I remember, I remember his car with two spare tires.
BL - That's right. A Dodge, a Dodge, with two spare tires.
(someone enters - all look at yearbook)
?- Well we thought you hadn't seen oit for a long tim, that we have a 1941
yearbook. We thought we'd come in and share that with you. Belongs to
somebody named Munson. Handsome devil...
WB - Bill since I was unable to attend that last meeting which was on
transportation, I have a very vivid memory of the trolley.
BL - Tell me about the trolley.
WB - That ran from the old assembly hall to, to Bryan, I don't think I ever rode it
but two or three times because of the, I had limited funds.
BL - All right now, it was in existence. When are you talking about? Name a
date.
WB - Well it would have to be during the time my brother was here in '30 or
when I came in '31, because I remember very vivid the Trolley.
BL - Now that's interesting because I've heard reports of that thing ceasing it's
operation in 1923. 1 didn't think that was correct.
WB - No, that's not correct because uh...
BL - That's what I thought, so.
WB - I was ten years old then and I'd never been over across the river.
BL - I'm glad to know that thing. That...
19
WB - It was in '30 or `31.
BL - It was still being used that time. Do you remember the trolley?
JL - I know where the tracks were.
BL - You don't remember seeing the trolley?
JL - No.
WB - Come in to stop to about where uh, uh, Henderson Hall and uh the
Chapel...
BL - That's right. Came in and turned around right there and went, it left the
campus, east of the hospital building, and right by campus theater, off campus,
there by the campus theater.
WB - And the two good reasons I never did ride it very much: I didn't have any
reason to go to Bryan and didn't have many, much in the way of funds, so but
now, I remember it very vividly.
BL - Hazel do you have any recollection of the Trolley?
HVR - No I don't.
WB - I wanted to add that since I missed the transportation meeting.
BL - I'm glad, I'm glad you did, because, uh I like to have more history of, of, the
trolley. The Edge family, Eugene Edge's son, owned the bus company. The
Bryan /College Station Traction Company that came in to being I guess after the
trolley did. Andf uh, I don't know if they had anything to do with the, the trolley or
not. But uh, their grandson of the Eugene Edge family that lives here now, I'd
like to communicate with him, because he has his knowledge of the trolley.
20
Because uh, I've seen maps where it came on to the campus there where the
Campus Theater went north, uh, East of the hospital and came in behind the
Assembly Hall. What's now ... the...
WB - He said he remembered seeing the tracks, did it come where any close,
anywhere near uh, College Avenue?
JL - It crossed College Avenue. The street wasn't there then, uh, it comes out
WB - The reason I asked, uh, Dr. R.W. Ivey, the barber, never owned a car in
his lifetime, and he never missed a day at the barber shop. He rode some kind
of public transportation from Midway to uh, Northgate.
BL - The trolley track is Cavitt Avenue. You know where Cavitt Street is?
WB - Yeah.
BL - Cavitt Street, uh, is the trolley track, and it, it crossed at an angle, what's
now College Avenue, there, and veered off more to the east. I'm sorry, to the
west. And uh, north of where Skaggs - Albertson's or Albertson's is now. And it
came over uh, near Boyett Street and turned south into campus. I've seen maps
of that. But see that would have been right behind where Ivey lived.
hvQNIm]I'TiM
BL- He could have just gone from his house from what's now College Avenue,
just a few blocks, there was a cabin.
WB - Seems like the latter part of his day was on some kind of a public bus.
BL - Well the bus came into being, uh, after....
WB - But I bet he rode that trolley in his early days.
21
BL - The bus came into being.
WB - But he never owned an automobile. I've carried him hunting and fishing
dozens and dozens of times.
BL - You know Ms. Ivey still lives.
WB - Yep. Her birthday is on leap year and she is passed one hundred...
BL - She was in one of our sessions here. She and her daughter.
JL - Beatrice?
BL - Beatrice. Is her mother still living?
HVR - Yes, Beatrice lives around the corner from me and...
BL - Now?
HVR - Yes, she just lost her husband.
BL - That's right.
HVR - And uh, Mrs. Ivey is a hundred years old. And when I went over...
BL - Still sharp.
HVR - Right. When I went over to Beatrice's to take some food, um, Mrs. Ivey
said, "Yes, I remember the name Hazel being mentioned in our household," and
says, "You're no spring chicken either, are you ?" And here she is a hundred
years old.
BL - That's right, well I'm glad you brought that up. The trolley thing.
WB - Well, he's a grand old fellow in his late years. Uh, I visited him one
afternoon after he was confined to his home because I carried him hunting and
fishing so many times. He was a World War I Marine in Guatonomo Bay and
22
brought home with him his issued .45 Colt revolver and uh, he just thought it was
none other like it in the world and there's probably not many. And at one point
and time he got to barber, uh, the gunsmith down the road, they'd call him
trigger -smith that's where Shiloh is located, he carried it down there one time
and said, " I want you to rebuild this gun. I want a new cylinder and a new barrel
and micrometer sides," and he said, "Mr. Ivey, I'm afraid it will blow up in your
face if I weaken the receiver and put the rear micrometer sights on it," and he
said, "I'm afraid to do it, " and he said, "It's my gun and my face, do you want the
job ?" So he did. He rebuilt the thing and put new sites, new barrel, new
cylinder. And he never did know what a cleaning pack was, so he never did
clean it. And we shot a lot together with that old 45, and, uh, his primary
interest in target shooting was shooting turtles with that 45 pistol. So I'd keep it
a few days or a few weeks and clean it up good, wrap it in a greasy cloth and
carry it back and give it to him and he'd say come get it when you want it, I'm not
going to be able to use it anymore. So I carried it to him one afternoon.
Cleaned up and ready to store away. He was in the rocking chair. One of those
platforms about a foot high, so he laid it on his platform, till I got ready to leave
and he called Mrs. Ivey, she was in the back room sewing and he said, "Come
in here, I want you to witness something and you'll be the only witness when I'm
gone." He said, "He's helped me many many ways and especially with this
particular pistol," and he said, " I'm giving it to him in your presence when I go
west. I don't want any of it to go planting and I want to tell him not to give it to
23
you." So I still have it and they've never asked for it , but it's, it's, it's a real real
treasure. I just had to tell that.
BL - Something else about transportation you might be able to help. While you
were here in school, University turned around, went from facing west to facing
east. Do you remember that?
WB - It didn't turn much while I was here because the dormitory 12 area was
built in Duncan Hall and finished `39. There was an entrance from over there
where the highway is now and, but I don't remember when the Administration
Building was built.
BL - Well, uh, do you remember anything about Highway 6, when it was
completed?
WB - Well, they called it Highway 6 but it was an alternate route because the
main 6 was Wellborn Road.
BL - Wellborn Road. That's what I'm asking, when that switched. Do you
remember?
JL - They built it in the 30's.
BL - Somebody said to use the date 1936, here the other day, when they
officially opened that. I thought it was earlier than that. That's what I'm fishing
for.
JL - It probably was a little bit earlier than that. But they opened it probably in 36
because it was really built as part of the highway expansion for the Texas
Centennial.
24
BL - Oh.
JL - They waited until Centennial Day to do the dedication.
BL - It was actually built before that.
WB - That's right.
JL - Yeah, but not too many years because the right of way was required in the
early 30's.
WB - The roads weren't used.
JL - That photograph I've got of `32, it shows it under construction.
WB - That's when they were building it.
BL - Now the interesting thing about that photograph, it shows Highway 6. It
doesn't show the main entrance to the University.
JL - It wasn't. It wasn't constructed.
BL - When was the main entrance to the University...
WB- Right in there
JL - In between that date and `36.
BL - O.K. Oh, that's right. Ok, `32 is the date of the photograph.
WB - Right.
BL - Ok that's right. It was built, the main entrance was built before `36.
JL - If I had to put a date on it, which would be pure clear speculation, it would
be 1935.
WB - There was a road opening, road through there, it was in use in the fall of
`31.
Oil
BL - Road where?
WB - East side, on the East side, I don't know what capacity that was.
JL - See that was Bryan, off Sulphur Springs Road. And Rock Prairie Sulphur
SpringsRoad. It is where Texas Avenue is now. And It was a road, you know,
dirt road for a long, long time before it was designated a highway.
WB - Yeah, because Reveille I was picked up after being run over by a car, right
near on the intersection that goes out to uh, Texas Avenue. Was picked up by
George Comnas in the Fall of `31, because that's when she come to the campus,
and they put her in the basement of Leggett Hall in the trunk room, and fed her
from the Dining Hall and uh, two veterinary students took care of her. One of
them is still living, a classmate of mine and leg mended and somebody fed her
breakfast one morning and left the door cracked, she heard the band playing for
Reveille out in front of the newsstand in at Sbisa Hall and she went out and
joined the band and that's where she got her name. And there's a lot of different
stories about the origin of Reveille I, but that's where she was picked up on the
highway over there close to Blue Top Courts.
ML - Who picked her up?
WB - George Comnas, Greek boy, shipping magnet in uh, New York. He was
originally a `34 class, but he joined our class and he graduated and the
veterinarian, maybe I'll think of his name, is retired in Marshall, that uh, took
care of the dog, a sophomore veterinarian , bandaged up her leg and nurse her
back to health. When she caught that door open, she was true to the campus.
26
BL - Part of the band when she caught that door open.
WB - And uh, before classes when we were in school, during that time, they got,
put their funds together because the Reveille Monument over in the Cadet
center in '36, '35, '34, and '33, '32 didn't want any part of it so '36 helped us
finance. And there's a lot of stories and Jerry Cooper said, " I'll never publish
one story and think it's correct because there's about three different stories told.
" When he published a story about it a few years ago, he told everybody's
story.
BL - Told them all.
WB - And uh, The guy that helped raise everything over at the Cadet Center and
discovered Reveille and had it made at Sanderson, we let him put together a
little brochure that they had given out until they ran out. And it said she came in
the early 30's so nobody disputed that.
BL - That's good to get that official rendition. That's great. Well, all right, Jim
you haven't had a chance to talk. What can you tell us about....
WB - Well, I'm going to excuse myself and pick the proper time and not interrupt.
BL - I'm glad you have.
WB - Well it's been a pleasure and I hope you get everything you, you won't get
it all, you get a lot. I wonder what kind of records the school office has on the
early superintendents and so forth.
BL - They're bound to have it unless there's something else we need to do is to
review that just haven't had the opportunity to do it. I've read where somebody
27
has written that up the origin of this school on campus, it began in 1921, was
when it started.
WB - When the stucco building was built?
BL - Stucco building was built and I've heard who is the man who runs the
country kitchen down here?
WB - Frank Meads.
BL - Frank Meads said he entered that school in 1921. It wasn't ready in
September. He had to attend class in Guyon Hall for awhile until that building
got finished. He remembered it now, but how that came, about A &M entered into
it, with oh, some state education agency or something, teaching teachers and
that sort of thing. So it was a, you know, a training thing on campus. But then in
1939 -40 they had put an end to it, for some legal, after they had bought this land
they were sitting on the land.
WB - Ms. Hazel made my day when she verified at Pfeuffer Hall once existed.
HVR - Oh, yes.
BL - You attended Pfeuffer Hall.
WB - Yep. They have the picture, you want that rod?
BL - You'd better hang on to that rod.
HVR - You see this here at Pfeuffer Hall (was built in) 1887.
WB - You tell them how to spell it. Thank you, It's been a pleasure.
BL - Now what uh, Jim and I need to do is to sit down and write up stuff I guess.
But, as a matter of record what do you recall about beginning school in 1932?
181:3
JL - What amazed me is I don't ever remember a superintendent or a principal in
that building. There was an office down there, I don't remember any body ever
being there. And I don't recall there were some numbers over doors. There's a
high school and a grade school . I was I guess I started I don't know when they
actually gave Pfeuffer Hall.
BL - Even `32' ?
JL - But I'm not sure.
BL - Well,when I entered school in '34 it was just the first through seventh
grade.
JL - That's what I assumed too.
BL - Pfeuffer Hall was in existence then,so now do you have any information?
JL - No, I really don't know about Pfeuffer was but I thought that Mr. Gross was
the principal and there was an office there but I don't remember a Mr. Gross.
BL - The middle part of that building, first floor, facing west was that office area.
never even looked in there.
JL - I didn't either.
BL - Could have been a janitor's closet for all I know. I never had reason to look
in there, I don't have any idea to this day who the principal or whatever might
have been, who were all the teachers.
HVR - Mr. Gross was (the Principal)
BL - Well Now, was he over all the schools?
HVR - Uh I presume he was, I know he came out to Wellborn.
P& O,
BL - Well, was he in the office at that stucco building, do you suppose?
HVR - Downstairs
JL - There was an office down stairs and I do not remember anybody.
BL - She just answered our question.
HVR - He was the most handsomest man I ever saw.
ML - That's the difference.
HVR - Black hair, he was very, very handsome.
BL - Was he.
HVR - Teenage girl thought he was handsome.
ML - How do you spell Gross?
HVR - GROSS
JL - Name the teachers,Mr. Sloop was my first grade teacher was Mrs.
Pipkin,was 2nd grade Mrs. Holsman,was 3rd Mrs. Lomax,was 4th and then Mrs.
Bright, Ms. Bright, Ms. Karen Bright,was 5th grade and 6th and 7th kind of get
fuzzy because there was a Mrs. Lairo, a Mrs. Slaughter and Mr. Palmer.
JL - No, this is ... and I cannot remember his name I don't think. (Lancaster later
reveals that this is Mr. Plamer.) Apparently he was the principal but he taught
and really didn't serve as an officer, I don't think.
But, uh, I remember my first grade, my first day at school, I went back home
because no one paid any attention to me. They were giving away Coca -Cola
tablets and Coca -Cola rulers and they ran out of them and that made me mad.
No one paid any attention to me so I just went back home.
all
BL - What did mother do?
JL - I don't know, probably shrug her shoulders, but I do remember it. And I
don't Know, another thing that stands out in my mind, there was a new slide and
a merry -go- round, kids would stand in line and, they'd miss lunch to go down
that slide and ride the merry -go- round. Now the giant stryde was already there.
BL - North end of building.
JL - That's correct. But those other two (meaning the slide and merry -go -round
and who paid for them and who installed them, I have no idea. Amazing what
great interests those were.
BL - Was the merry -go -round there then?
JL - No, it was installed the same time the slide was installed. I just remember
that was a big deal, the stryde.
HVR - The giant slide. I wore the toes out of my shoes on that. And the heels
on my shoes I ruined by sitting on the sidewalks playing jacks.
JL - Marbles, marbles and jacks
BL - There was a drinking fountain down the front of the building.
JL - That's right.
BL - Had about 6 faucets then, very unsanitary by today's standards.
JL - There were houses back there behind, they were helpers, he mentioned the
sheep and the buildings.
BL - Penny.
JL - Penny.
31
BL - Louise Penny.
JL - Penny was the last name, Louise Penny.
BL - Do you remember them that lived right behind that school?
HVR - I don't remember the name of the people that owned a parrot, that when
was in 7th grade and we had the windows were up you couldn't pay attention to
what the teacher was saying for the parrot saying come on in, come on in.
BL - That was Colonel Emmery.
HVR - Yes.
JL - That was the Colonel's house.
BL - Just about where that building is, yea, that parrot would scream and squawk
and call Knox Walker all the time. Knox's mother would holler out the back door
for him, That parrot mocked her,and Knox didn't even remember, didn't know
whether it was the parrot or his mother calling.
JL - I do remember these school buses because the Model T that retired and
that was our dressing room you know for changing clothes to play football, was
that old Model T still sitting there And that blue bus you're talking about was.a
new..Chevrolet, it was blue and the benches ran length ways on the bus.
HVR - Sure did. Oh, and I tell you riding from Wellborn to College Station on a
cold day with no heater wasn't much fun.
JL - But we dressed in that garage and that was the only dressing room we had.
And practice football over there by the animal industries, the Pavilion. We had a
field adjacent to that, that's where we practiced football and... But then of course
32
to me and I hope he has been saluted are something that is Colonel Dunn and
all the time he gave for that orchestra and I assume it was free. I don't know.
didn't have any money to pay that man but he had that orchestra for years and
years and years.
BL - What is your recollection of where that orchestra practiced.
JL - First they were upstairs, where the 6th grade was located, later on, but I
was probably in 3rd or 4th grade when I first remember orchestra and they
practiced upstairs and then later on they were in that building in the back
uhwhich is the garage. I guess.And where they had their cafeteria, where they
served meals.
HVR - There was a garage where they had school buses wasn't it? The end of
the cafeteria.
JL - School buses and they continued on down, it was class rooms That room is
where we practice orchestra is the cafeteria.
BL - In the same room?
JL - No, they were, one was there and the orchestra was the last one as I recall.
(two rooms, one for cafeteria and one for orchestra.)
BL - Practicing I can remember in the orchestra in that room, but I have a
picture of some of us in that room upstairs.
JL - That was where they first practiced. Is I recall is upstairs.
BL - Over that office area.
33
JL - Yea, over the offices, but I hope that Dunn gets some kind of recognition for
all he contributed.
BL - Uh, I had to assume he was paid by the university.
JL - Oh, yes, he was the band leader, oh, yea.
BL - But I doubt seriously if the school paid him.
JL - This is what I'm thinking. Oh, yea, he was the director for A &M.
BL - Hours and hour he would play any instrument, band instrument, or
orchestra instrument whatever.
JL - That man gave hours and hours of his time for the betterment of this place.
BL -Uh now when you mentioned the football games is that after you got into
high school football.
JL - Yes that was high school football I can't remember the coach
BL- Was Paul Edge there at the time?
JL - yes, maybe Ferguson was the coach
BL - Tommy Ferguson?
JL - Because I don't remember Mark Parks being at that old Phueffer Hall, he
was at this place but I practiced football up there with somdody as coach.
HVR - I don't remember Parks at Phueffer Hall, I'm not saying that he wasn't
there, but I just don't recall.
JL - I cannot picture Mark Parks at that old school either, and so I guess either
Tommy Ferguson or Lyles.
BL - WD Lyles?
34
JL - WD Lyles and he was here also,
dressing...
BL - Needless to say there were no showers.
JL -There were no No showers.
BL -And equipment used from A &M?
JL - The equipment came from A &M shoes & everything.
HVR - In '39 it shows here Mr. Grady Elms.
but that
JL - That's who we were talking about. Apparently he was the coach.
BL - He was my seventh grade math teacher.
HVR - Coach Grady Elms.
BL - He was the football coach. He still lives, by the way, in the Washington D.
C. area. Parks, Majors, Paul Edge died.
JL - Which was the same Edge that did the transportation ever since father use
to drive the bus, Paul Edge drove the bus.
BL - Paul Jr. and Paul Sr. ran the bus company but it was his brother that owned
JL - Eugene?
BL - Eugene Edge owned the business, Mrs. Paul Edge told me this when I
talked with her a year or so ago. Eugene Edge owned the company but Paul
Sr. and his family kind of ran it. They would drive the buses but I assume they
came in right after this trolley thing. And then that's why I was curious about
35
talking to the Eugene Edge's family to see if they knew anything about the
trolleys and maybe they are stuck over in the garage somewhere.
JL - We'd sure like to find them
BL - buses stuck off in the garage somewhere like that model T.
JL - Of course these dormitories were built in 1939.
BL - They were finished in `39. I remember I was in the fifth grade which was on
the Southside of that building on that side.
BL - We moved then uh I was in the sixth grade in that building when you were
in Phueffer hall I guess.
JL - You were saying that you move d down here and that threw me off because
went to Phueffer and I guess 40...
BL- She was a senior though and you were a freshman.
JL- So you were in the building?
HVR- One year.
JL - Ok.
JL- One semester.
BL- That threw me off because I know that I went to Phueffer and of course
came down here. I couldn't remember. When did we move here?
BL- Christmas holidays 1939. I've got a vivid recollection.
BL- Oh really. Of our sixth grade upstairs in that building of cleaning out our
desks. I can remember it was Heaton, H.L. Heaton, was out homeroom teacher,
and when we were fixin' to go home for Christmas she made us take all our stuff
36
home with us because when we reported back after Christmas it was a new
game. That's when you all you had one semester, straight semester in 1940 in
this building.Ok I can remember Ms. Heaton making sure. I can see her now,
looking in all the desks to make sure the desks were all cleaned out before we
went home. That was in 1939.
JL- I remember Keith Langford ran the little store underneath the stairs, that you
can buy candy and stuff and he was a high school student I guess.
BL- Well, now, Doug and Cynthia,and uh Doug's in your class ya'll graduated
together. Did you go all four high school years in Phueffer Hall?
HVR- Except for that ... (one semester)
JL- We had eleven grades. We didn't go to twelfth grade.
BL- That's right, it would've been eighth, ninth, tenth, and eleventh. Eight
through eleven.
HVR- Yes, yes I went there except for the last semester.
BL- I guess what I'm asking is, you didn't attend high school in the stucco
building all of your high school other than this last semester.
HVR- The first though the seventh in the Stucco Building and then 8th through
the 11 th in Pfueffer Hall.
BL- I was trying to get a feel for when Phueffer Hall was Built. So you would've
have entered high school in 1936, so that occurred, the taking over Phueffer Hall
would have been before 1936.
37
JL- They sure did take bricks out of that building while they were sitting there in
study hall.
BL- Yeah. Yeah.
JL- Sitting there with tin pipe and take the mortar out.
BL- Take the bricks out and throw them out in the yard. It's a wonder that
building didn't fall in.
HVR- Well, sometimes you'd think it was going to and it would rain and the walls
swelled so...
BL- Well now to make the story worse. when I was at A &M I had classes in that
building. Yes sir, I had Physics in that building it was upstairs And you
wondered if that thing was going to hold you while you were up stairs. That
would've been at least six years about '45, five or six years even after
Consolidated quit using it. It was still used as a class room. Your days were
over in the CE Building.
JL- in 1949
BL- The building was gone then.
JL- I can't remember.
HVR- What building did the singing cadets practice in?
BL- The Stucco Building. It became the Music Hall...
JL- The Music Hall...
BL- Well, I had a class in it I had History class in that building.
JL- Well I had an English class. I had forgotten that I had an English class in that
building.
BL- I had one in my fifth grade room. I had an A &M history class. They were
hard up for space let me tell you.
JL- I had two English classes in that building.
BL- Then about the time they brought in all that barracks stuff.
HVR- You were speaking of the teacher that you had in high school.
JL- No I didn't cover any of those. I had Matt Parks and of course Ms. Mitchell
HVR- ON wonderful
JL- I had Ms. Mitchell and Larry Goodman, he was the track coach.
BL- Nabers, Cecil Nabers.
JL- Bird, a guy named bird, was a coach and also a science teacher.
BL- See, I entered high school in 1941 and when the war came all the men
disappeared, that would be Lyle and David Bunting were the only two men left,
the rest of them all went off to war and college and Tommy Ferguson, But for
some reason Lyle stayed there for a while and David Bunting was there all the
time , he was to old to join the service, But the others all left.
HVR- What about Ms. Burgess? was she uh.
BL- She , did she ever teach you? She was gone.
HVR- Oh yes, yes she did.
JL- She taught you in high school.
HVR- Yes, Ms. Burgess and there was Ms. Spencer, Ms. Caroline Mitchill
M
JL- Ms. Glazner
HVR- Ms. Clazner, Mr. Edge, Mr. Ferguson, oh that trig class with Mr. Ferguson
was a nightmare. I mastered all my math under Ms. Mitchell, and when I got to
trig. I just don't know.
BL- Something fell apart huh?
JL- Bill little .
BL- Mrs. Morris; Mrs. Laker D. Morris
JL- She taught plane Geometry to me.
HVR- Mrs. Mitchell taught me Geometry, she taught me general math, algebra
1&2, solid geometry, and plain geometry.
BL- uh, Mrs. Walling, Mrs. Walling and Mrs. Mcgee taught math and you had
Mrs uh..
JL- Mrs. Keith Jones
BL- yes, her husband was a coach.
JL- a coach in Bryan I believe, Bryan high.
BL- a coach in Bryan and she taught out here, I don't know what she taught.
JL- English
BL- was it? I don't remember
BL- Did you ever have Mrs. Thompson?
JL- yeah, sure did
BL- Uh, and Mrs.,uh.
JL- Tom Ferguson, they were no kin to the Ferguson here.
EN
BL- they had a daughter in your class.
JL- they had a daughter .
BL- she was uh...
JL- let me tell you a story about that lady.
BL- O.K.
JL- This is worth it, this is psychology, Mrs. Ferguson was my home room
teacher, and Mrs. Ferguson called the role the first day she came to that school
and she didn't name me, and she said I'm so glad that one name is not on this
list and that's that Jim Lancaster and she knew clang well I was sitting in there,
she said, she said, "I understand he's a rowdy person." and you know I never
gave that lady any trouble at all, she knew I was sitting in there and she
purposely didn't call my name because she apologized later to me. I had
forgotten that story.
HVR - is that Mr. Tommy Ferguson's wife
JL - No, this .....
HVR - I was gonna say
JL - Cause she pulled that same bit I never gave that lady a hard time
BL - I remember on thing that class did.
HVR - there was also a teacher named Chalk, did ya'II have a teacher name
Chalk?
BL - she's here.
HVR - Is she?
41
BL - yeah she's down the hall, Helen Thomas got hold of her and yeah she's
down the hall Marie Chalk.
HVR - She's an artist.
BL - uh huh, But on this thing here,we went to assembly in the gym one day.
Mrs. Lyle or mabey Mr. Bunting,talked about the 50th boy and how it wasn't but
1 in 50 boys that was you know helpful and...
JL - obedient
BL - obedient, and all this sort of thing, all that sort of stuff and they went on and
on about this 50th boy. Well you know we took it and you know listened to it and
the assembly broke up and it wasn't 30 sec after that assembly broke up that
your class started the 49th club.
JL - that's right.
BL - that was in Ms. Ferguson's home room that 49th club.
JL - I never had her as a teacher, and Mrs. Tanzer was a teacher.
JL - And Mrs. Tanzer was a teacher
BL - She was a science teacher
JL - Yes
BL - Mrs.Ferguson taught Spanish and things like civics.And her daughter's
name was Martha.
JL - Martha Ferguson. Yes. Yes. I had Mr. Ferguson at A &M by the way,he
taught economics.
BL - I remember what it looked like but I never...
42
JL - Well
BL - Well I don't know what else
JL - have you done yours? Have you already been interviewed
BL - Well, no. I'm supposed to write mine up
JL - Oh
BL - I need to get everybody else to do
HVR - Mr. Thomas Ferguson and Grace Barnett married while (teaching at
Consolidated)
BL - That's right
JL - I had forgotten
BL - I still call her, if I ever see her, I still call her, Mrs. Barnett
HVR - Well
BL - It's been 10, years ago
HVR - Well she's deceased.
BL - She died didn't she?
JL - Well where did he go?
BL - They're both dead. He died before she did. She was not too long ago.
HVR - No, it hadn't been very long ago.
BL - But she died. But I knew her children. One of them I went to church with
us...
HVR - We really thaught that was something (when the were married).
43
BL - No, what, really I think we're supposed to be talking about is school today,
and early education, but I think it's the development of the town is what get more
people involved in.
JL - I do not remember a road from A &M I remember the road along the
Dabervolny property. You had to open two gates before you got to highway 6,
but I do not remember an exit on the main campus to hwy. 6.
BL - where the main entrance is?
JL - yea where they built the The Dabervolany and the road there
BL - George Bush.
JL - George Bush Blvd. that was just an old lane that got out to that highway.
BL - well then you say Sulphur Springs Road of course now University Dr. was
Sulphur Spring Road.
JL - No, Texas Avenue was Sulphur Spring Road
BL - oh OK
JL - highway 6
BL - well, Rock Prairie some of us called it Driving Rock Prairie Road
JL - In Bryan there is a Sulfur Spring Road
BL - that's right
JL - North of North Avenue. that's a different
JL - In any of your discussions did you talk about those cattle drives that they did
twice a day.
..
BL - Yes, I got some information on that, that's not on discussion, but I know who
did it and he can provide all the names, is Claude Green. You remember Ethel
and Eva Green and who were in our class. Their older brother was instrumental
in running that thing.
JL - Driving the cattle?
BL - Driving the cattle.
JL - What did they do with that meat? Was that just for him or why did they drive
so many cattle and slaughter so many cattle. That's a lot of meat. They ran two
runs a day.
BL - My question of him was where did they come from?
JL - Off the train, They came off the train.
BL - They shipped them in here by rail and run them down that cattle shoot.
JL - They run them down that cattle shoot twice a day. And I mean that was a lot
of beef. It went somewhere and apparently they slaughtered it and
BL - And distributed the meat I suppose.
JL - because that was a lot of meat.
HVR - Did it go to the dining hall?
JL - Well, some of it did.
BL - Could have but that was a whole lot more meat...
JL - As I recall it was 2 drives a day. One in the morning and one in the evening.
They unloaded off those cars and ran up to that....
45
BL - Beef went totally bad if you got a train load of potatoes... To help feed the
cattle. I didn't know cattle ate potatoes but he said they had a train load of
potatoes out there and he started giving these potatoes away to people who
needed it, you know. He wasted too much... but I need to get that story from
him.
JL - You sure do, because that's just a kids story and maybe that didn't go on
very long. I just remember those guys hollering at those cows and driving that
cattle up there to that slaughter house.
BL - Well he made the other people that worked with him on horses drive those
cattle...
HVR - You're talking about the children that went or the students that went to
Consolidated. There was also another group from Rock Prairie.
BL - That was uh...
HVR - Rock Prairie, Union Hill, Wellborn and Peach Creek
JL - Where's Rock Prairie Now?
HVR - Rock Prairie is still Rock Prairie
BL - It's still Rock Prairie Church...
JL - Isn't that where Jim Carl and...
IMMIOM Ym
BL - Yea.
JL - In that area.
M
BL - Rock Prairie Rd... I remember the road that went out there uh, it ran in front
of that church. Over the hill and in front of that church which is pretty much to
the east of the present path of Hwy. 6. 1 can remember when we'd go south out
on Rock Prairie Rd. where the boys and Dudleys lived out on...
HVR - George Todd.
BL - George Todd,you'd go in front of that little road, Main Road, went in front of
that church... You turn in front of that church, it's kind of a parking place going
up the hill. To my recollection it was, whether you remember it or not you past
the church and take a sharp left and go on out there. Do you remember it going
out that way? I can remember building Hwy. 6 out there veering to the west of
that just a little bit to where it cutting a path... Through the ponderosa. I'm just
wondering if I have a bad recollection of that.
JL - No that was
BL - That was. That was Rock Prairie. I guess that's called Rock Prairie Church.
HVR - Hazel, were there schools like there was a school at Wellborn did Rock
Prairie have a school or Peach Creek?
I:dIimi[: •mii111
BL - Yep, Peach Creek. We talked about it yesterday.
JL - You did.
BL - Dorothy Atwater.
HVR - Dorothy.
47
H - I really don't know, I just know that when I started at Consolidated in the 5th
grade there were students from Peach Creek and Rock Prairie and Union Hill.
BL - I've got an old map, road map, it's really soiled, it's a good road map, the
dirtiest one I'd ever find. I think it's 1940 and it's got symbols of the schools.
HVR - Oh.
BL - And not only Brazos County but every county that had a school within, you
could draw a 3 mile radius circle, and you could have put it down on the map
without a school being in it. And I think that had to be some kind of criteria, don't
you, that kids had to walk over 3 miles to school?
HVR - (In Wellborn they walked or sometimes caught the bus, some parents
would take their children on there way to College Station.
BL - Why is the word Consolidated peculiar in this area? Didn't all over the state
of Texas, didn't they consolidate these schools you're talking about in the larger
district? Why did we hang on to that name when it's a common name?
JL - I imagine it was on account of name of the school. They didn't want to call it
A &M school cause we had one over there. It was differentiated it between A &M
college and grade school. It would be my guess, if I was to guess, it seems like
the word consolidated those would about apply to just about any situation. What
you didn't need it to identify was it from another school in the same area.
HVR - That's right. Most schools just took the name of the town.
JL - That's right.
,
HVR - Where they built the Consolidated school, but here there was that
content.
BL - Did those consolidations take place all over the state about the same
place?
JL - 1921 or `22 or `20 or something like that.
BL - You suppose buses showed that?
JL - Oh, yes. When they put in the buses then they could take you , became
cheaper to operate the bus system than a bunch of schools.
BL - Than a bunch of schools, yeah.
JL - Besides you could offer a whole lot more. If you had a bunch of schools
they didn't have anything. They didn't have labs, didn't have music, or anything
other than reading, writing arithmetic.
HVR - I know there was a school at Harvey. Early, early, school.
BL - Well, that's interesting. Black schools are more widely dispersed.
JL - Black schools are really more widely dispersed.
M - Now, Hazel was there a black school at Wellborn?
HVR - Not to my knowledge. Yesterday, I was a transcriptionist at Lincoln
Center and some of the black people were interviewed and one of the ladies in
the group that I was in went to school at Wellborn. That would be long before
integration.
HVR - They had to be in separate school because it was rare even for us to
have a Hispanic in Wellborn.
:
M - So it was a school somewhere.
HVR - They just want, they didn't live there.
JL - The only one I remember was connected with the school....
BL - Well there....
November, after all the crops are in and they'd leave ...... 3 or 4 months
M - I don't know how...
BL - There's liable to be a young man in third grade. You had to grow up in a
hurry.
HVR - Wasn't the Lincoln school at one time all black?
M -Yes It was.
HVR - Maybe the blacks in Wellborn came (To Lincoln). I don't know when
(Lincoln) came in to existence.
M - They came to Lincoln. This lady went to school in Wellborn three or four
years but I'm not sure where it was located. She called it Wellborn, so it was
somewhere near I guess.
HVR - Do you remember who she was?
M - Celeste Williams.
BL - That's her married name?
M - Yes, that's her married name.
HVR - I know they had churches, you know black churches for the blacks there
and still do.
M - It may have been.
50
HVR - As far as the school, I'm not saying that it wasn't there I just do not
remember one being there when I was growing up.
M - It may have been in the same building as the church. A lot of times they
were, weren't they?
BL - Somebody has written up the history of black education here. We've even
got football tickets. She made a pretty good study of that and that is written up.
The stuff there I didn't have any idea. They'd transport a lot of blacks to a
central location for school and I didn't know all that. I thought there was one
here in College Station, but there wasn't. Lincoln came in later but before that
time, I thought there was a school over there, by, remember the house that was
cut in two and next door to it there was a church. I thought there was a school in
that area, but there wasn't.
JL - There wasn't a school out there by Mr. Jones' house? Wasn't that Lincoln?
BL - Later.
JL - OK. Later.
BL - But not way back.
JL - OK then.
BL - Lincoln came about the time of uh in the latter forties or something like that.
JL - Oh.
BL - Are we running out of time? OK. Well, what else can we add? we might
could capture it all, but one of these days were gonna sit down and write all this
51
someday and submit it to the writing. If any of y'all are good writers well, do the
same thing.
END