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HomeMy WebLinkAboutEarly Education I Panel Group 4Early Education Oral History Grou 4 Taylor Riedel Art Bright Ken Morgan Horace Schaffer * *�& Taylor Riedel has yet to return transcript College Station Oral History Teachers October 26, 1995 Interview Group: Arthur Bright Taylor Riedel Horace Schaffer Ken Morgan Moderator: Ellen Horner Transcriptionist: Mary Tucker Video Camcorder Operator: Helen Sheffield Ellen Horner - I'm Ellen Horner your moderator for today. Let us begin by introducing yourselves. Art if you would introduce yourself. And tell us how long you have been here. Before we start that I would like to say that we have to be very careful about talking in turn, because it is very difficult for the transcriber to do the interpretation or do the transcribing if we have two people talking at once. Does that sound familiar. So Art? Art Bright - My name is Arthur Bright. And I was born in Indiana. And graduated from a small Indiana college. Went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri and got out and taught one year in Rolla, Missouri, before I came to College Station. I started in the high school in 1956. Ellen Horner - Taylor? Taylor Riedel - My name is Taylor Riedel. I first came to College Station in 1940, when I was a Freshman at A &M, took some time out for the service. And came back and got my degree, bachelor degree. We move to, got married we moved to Greenville, Mississippi for one year. Then came back here. That was 47. 1 started here in 47 and taught in the high school, junior high, junior high principal, superintendent till I retired in 1974. Ellen Horner - Horace? Horace Schaffer - My name is Horace Schaffer. I was born in College Station. And started at A &M Consolidated in 1934, graduated in 1945. Went to the military service. Came back to Texas A &M. Came as a teacher to A &M Consolidated in 1951. Junior high principal, high school coach, and physical education teacher. Retiring in 1994. Ellen Horner - Mary I'm going to digress a little bit. I didn't get these interview data sheets. Do you want to turn the recorder off? Mary Tucker - No let's just go ahead. They can do them as we go. Ellen Horner - OK I would like to pass these out to you. We need to have these. I'll not read it to you. I'll let you do that, read those at the end of the session. Also as we go along, if you mention any names that are hard to spell, like Riedel. If you would help Mary with those. I would like to start out. Of course, this is early for the school district and facilities and so forth. I believe, Horace you've been here the longest. How would. What were the facilities like when you first came here? Horace Schaffer - You mean when I started to school, or when I started as a teacher? Ellen Horner - Let's start with as you were a teacher? Horace Schaffer - That was in 1951. Of course, Taylor was here before me. But, when I came we still had the white buildings on Timber Street. We had a junior high and high school where the community center is at the present time. Ellen Horner - OK. Where did the white buildings? Where were the found? 2 Taylor Riedel - Along Timber. There was Ernest Langford who was head of the Architecture Department at A &M at that time designed them. And they built them in 39 and 40. Helen Schaffer - Ellen can in interrupt, and ask him to move over on that corner. Since no one is going to be there. And that will solve our problem. Taylor Riedel - So, that's when the white buildings. You ask about the white buildings? Ellen Horner - I ask about the white buildings. Taylor Riedel - Oh yea. And that was the whole school system, was in those white buildings up there at that time. And then a little later they built this, the high school building, which has been torn down, behind here. What's remaining of that is the little shop, music room out here. That they still use, I think as a teen age cantina. Ellen Horner - Which is right back here. Now you are talking about. Taylor Riedel - Right over here. Right by. Ellen Horner - I'm turned around. This is the building you are talking about. Horace Schaffer - This was the high school. Ellen Horner - Right. Taylor Riedel - But there was. The original high school was right where that building was. Ellen Horner - I see. Taylor Riedel - It was a white building just like, like the ones up there on the corner. Ellen Horner - White frame buildings. Taylor Riedel - On Timber. White frame buildings. And it was torn down, and that was. An interesting. I don't know what you want to do. An interesting sight light. Hello Ken Morgan. 3 Gracie Calbert - Is this his place right here? Ellen Horner - Yes. That's where his name is. Ken Morgan - Horace, Art. Taylor Riedel - Ken how are you? Ellen Horner - Hi Ken. If you will just come right over, sit right here. And your name tag is right here. Ken Morgan - Did I get your spot? Gracie Calbert - No I'm taking pictures. Ken Morgan - Your taking pictures. Ellen Horner - Before we go on with this, let's introduce Ken. We are getting voice recordings, we would like to know your name and how long you have been here. When you came? Ken? Ken Morgan - Yes? Ellen Horner - He doesn't want to tell us. Ken Morgan - No, I don't mind. I'm just trying to get my brain together. You want me to give you my name too? Ellen Horner - Uh huh. Ken Morgan - Well I'm KC Morgan now. I use to go by Ken, I still do if you know me that way. 1 came here in January 1954. Been here ever since. Ellen Horner - Taylor was telling us about. We were talking about the facilities, Ken. As you remember them, when you first came here. And Taylor is tell us about. I've lost my train of thought. Taylor Riedel - Well, I was saying that the high school was behind here. And then it was torn down, when they built this building. Ken Morgan - It wasn't completely torn down. Was it? They just modified it. Taylor Riedel - No. They just modified. And then it was torn down. But it was torn down when they built that one, behind. But, when they built this particular 4 building that we are in now. If you notice, it is raise quite a bit from the street. It required a lot of dirt, to build it up. So they made a deal with the, the, a Mr. Holik. There were three Holik brothers that owned a lot of land around here. And this was John Holik. And John had a place down the road here. And so he agreed to sell the school people the dirt, if they would build him a tank that would hold water. And that he would, that would be stocked with fish. They agreed with that, and there was one other, another stipulation he wanted two cases of Pearl Beer. Ellen Horner - OK. Horace Schaffer - Is that the tank that was just by ................. Taylor Riedel - Yea. Yea that one. Yea. Ellen Horner - OK. Was this a private group of people who bought the land? Or was it the school district? Taylor Riedel - No it was the school district. Ken Morgan - So then this building was built. Ellen Horner - OK. What do you remember about the facilities Art? When you first came. Art Bright - I came here as a result of the ultra- modern high school, that was built down here. It's been torn down now. But, as I was getting out of the Army. No, as I was going on leave from the Army. The night before I could leave the base, I went to the post camp and pick up a copy of Life Magazine. It had ten colored pages of this ultra- modern school, glass, no walls. Everything was moveable, pull out a couple of pins and move it. I got to Bryan, my wife was living with her father in Bryan at the time. And one day I drove down College Ave. and it was a separation between the two cities then. And I came to this, the College Station city limits. And I couldn't remember where I'd heard College Station before. I'd never been to Texas before. And two days later I 5 remembered, well that was the place where this school was. So, since I had a teaching certificate from Indiana, I told my wife, well I'm going to go down and visit that school because when I get out of the Army and go back to Indiana it might be the difference between getting a job and not getting a job. To say I had visited a national school. So I came down and walked in and Dr. Richardson who was the superintendent at the time, spent about an hour and half with me and show me all around. And when I got ready to leave, he said how would you like to come down here and teach. I still had 21 months in the Army, so I thought he was being nice. And I said I guess it would be all right. But any way, in about 15 months later I got a letter from him that his records showed he had offered me a job, and was I interested? Well we couldn't work it out the first year. Because I didn't get out of the Army until September 30th, and he wanted me to take an early. And I would not. I had seen all the World War II veterans get called back in for Korean Conflict when they hadn't finished two years. So, refused to take an early. But, then he still offered me the job the next year. And came down. So actually that old building that was torn down couple of years ago out there, the reason I got to College Station. Ellen Horner - That was very interesting. Ken? Horace Schaffer - That was the junior high when you came. Because I was teaching across the hall, and he brought you down to see me. Art Bright - Oh, is that right. Horace Schaffer - Yes, I was head coach then. Art Bright - The unusual thing about it was that Dr. Richardson hired me. And I met my principal the very first day we came to school. Apparently Mr. Skrabanek the high school principal did not have any say so at that time. Dr. Richardson hired me and I guess Mr. Skrabanek was told, he will be teaching there, I don't know. But I never saw Mr. Skrabanek until the first day of school. D Ellen Horner - Ken. Tell us about your recollection of the facilities when you first came. And how you came. Ken Morgan - Well, I came here in midst of ignorance, a certain amount. Not talking about this area. But, I was running a cotton poison dust formulating plant in Mississippi. And I warehoused cotton. I think I have worked with cotton ever since I've been out of school. But I didn't realize that cotton was totally exiting anywhere except the Delta and Brazos Bottom and some other places where cotton was still growing. But, I was unhappy so I came over and was planning to go back to school and work on a doctorate degree at A &M. I was plain ignorant in following up in that I thought I could come over here and go to school in the summertime and work out a degree. A &M didn't offer doctorate work during the summertime in those days. So while I was here I looked around. And I don't remember how I got in contact with Dr. Richardson. But anyhow he offered me a job. Well I came over on vacation. And he offered me a job in November. 1 was real unhappy in the work I was doing, so I told him I would take it. So, I came here in January 1954. Taught science down at the end of the hall, down there. If I can still find it. And the lab was out here in the old wooden building. And that was the end of 54. And I believe we moved into the new school after 55 began. That was the way I remember it. Taylor Riedel - I think that's right, because I came here in 56 -57 and then it had been one year I think before hand. Ken Morgan - We moved over there in, Dr. One thing I would like to say. Well a lot of things I would like to say today, but I don't imagine I'll have the time. Dr. Richardson told me, he says, after I'd been here a while. He said, now. Well he told me right away. He says now if you can't teach Biology, I'll get somebody that can. And that was. That was the curriculum. And I still like that kind of 7 curriculum. I think a lot of this stuff today is a bunch of garbage. I have grandkids in school here and I'll hush. I'll get off that right now. Ellen Horner - Well talk about that in a minute. You will have, still another chance. Horace Schaffer - I'd like to add a point, if I may. I think I'm correct. When we moved to the facilities from the campus over here at Timber Street the campus did not include any athletic facilities. There was no gym, at that time. No track or any athletic facilities. Ellen Horner - OK. Horace Schaffer - Just education facilities. Ellen Horner - Oh right. Well when was the old wooden gym built? Horace Schaffer- In '42. During the '41 '42 school year. Ellen Horner - During the first year of the war. World War II. Horace Schaffer - Yes. Ellen Horner - And Tiger Field? Horace Schaffer - Which one? Ellen Horner - The old Tiger Field. Horace Schaffer - The field at Oakwood? Ellen Horner - I'm , I'm turned around here. Right. Horace Schaffer - I think it was built right after we moved in. Immediately, after we moved in. No kind of dressing facilities, but we had a field. We dressed on the porch of one of the white buildings on Timber Street with a canvas sheet for privacy, a water hose for showers. Ellen Horner - OK. All right. Did only boys use that? Or did, was it? Horace Schaffer - There were no girls in athletics. And we eventually took some scrap lumber and built a one room facility out here under the oak trees, next to the Oak trees that are still there. The construction wasn't too good of a 0 job. You could see through the cracks in the walls. But, that was our dressing room until the gym was built in 42. Ellen Horner - And how many people took advantage of looking through the cracks? Horace Schaffer - I don't know, we were so tired when we came in from football we didn't worry about that. Ellen Horner - OK. Art Bright - I had the same experience. Dr. Richardson didn't tell me that, but Mr. Skrabanek did. When I met him if he had any kind of syllabus or anything for us to use, and he said you were hired to teach math and if you can't teach it, I find out and you will be gone next year. And that was, like Ken said, the rest of it was left up to us. We developed our own curricula. Ellen Horner - That was very interesting. Do any of you have anything else to add, about the facilities or your recollections of. Tell me something about the heating and air conditioning in those days? Taylor Riedel - Wasn't any. Art Bright - Wasn't any. Ken Morgan - There was no air - conditioning but, another thing that interested me in those days. I hope I don't get off track too much here. Ellen Horner - That is what I'm here for. Ken Morgan - We ran a school system, even through this man's tenure, (Mr. Riedel's) on what the school system wastes now, as far as I'm concerned. There was a little notice above the light switch, and it reminded you to keep those lights off. When you left that room, you turned the lights off. We've got kids today that don't know how to do that at home, not to mention the schools. And every penny counted. I didn't have anything to teach Biology much with either. And I went to Dr. Richardson, somewhere during that year. I said, could 0 we get some microscopes? He says, if your not going to quite teaching and run off somewhere, I'll see what I can do. And we got some microscopes. At least we got a few. But we, our budget was unbelievable. And I'm not complaining. think we turned out some of the best kids that were ever turned out in this country. Taylor Riedel - When your talking about the heating, there were space heaters in all the wooden buildings. Ken Morgan - We had radiators in this building. Taylor Riedel - This building had radiators, but they were not. They were individual. It was a gas fire burner. Each one had, you filled the radiator up with water. And it was a closed system, but it wasn't on a, like you would normally find a steam heat radiator where they are connected to a central system. It wouldn't any air conditioner. Horace Schaffer - Windows. Ellen Horner - Windows were the air conditioners. Art Bright - And the fans. Taylor Riedel - There was some fans. Horace Schaffer - Windows were open, in fact some of the golfers today could hit golf balls through the windows. Ellen Horner - OK. Art you've had the experience of working with heating and open air conditioning in those days, and also today, because you've been doing some of that type of energy conservation, and so forth. Can you lend some insight into that? Art Bright - Well we didn't get air conditioning in the schools. I think I'm right in this, until a large majority of people had air conditioners at home. And when the kids got used to air conditioning at home, and they come to school without air conditioning, we gor air conditioning in the schools. Taylor knows more about IiX this than I. But I think that's when we started air conditioning, because the public demanded it. But there was a lot more air conditioning in town, in homes, and businesses, before it ever go in the schools. Ellen Horner - Horace? Horace Schaffer - There was no cafeteria when we built these facilities. We had a cafeterium when the gym was built. We had PE until 10:30, then moved the tables, mopped the floors (the kitchen was underneath the stand). We served, cleaned the floors and started PE again. They also had a stage for assemblies . .................... a cafeterium. Taylor Riedel - It was really a general cafeteria. Horace Schaffer - Yea, that's right. Taylor Riedel - General cafeteria. Ellen Horner - Who did the cooking? Taylor Riedel - We had cooks. Horace Schaffer - Cooks, also some of the high school students worked in the cafeteria, for their meals. Art Bright - They had to work for their meals at that time. Ellen Horner - I like that. Facilities. Let's see. Looking back what would you consider your most difficult aspect of teaching? Let's start with the head - honcho, Taylor Riedel. What, we'll change that teaching, but dealing with the community? Taylor Riedel - Well, let me. I'm going to qualify something. Ellen Horner - Sure. Taylor Riedel - We thought we had problems in those days. But we really didn't. If you think about what's going on now. At that time, and whether it was better or not, I don't want to argue that point. But the people elected the board of trustees. The board of trustees selected the superintendent. And the 11 superintendent with the approval of the board, hired the teachers. And we ran the schools. It wasn't done by committee. It wasn't done by all this other stuff. Now I know I'm flying in the face of current wisdom that you need to get everybody and his dog involved. But, it was much simpler, at that, back in those days to carry on the kind of school program you felt like you needed. And if you didn't do the kind of job you were suppose to do then they got somebody else, to come in and do it. It was that simple. But, there wasn't, we didn't have all this hands on business. Ellen Horner - What about your dealing with individual parents? Did you have the involvement and the, let's say the antagonism that maybe later on was evident. Taylor Riedel - No, no. I'll tell you an interesting story, when I was junior high principal. We had a young man who was a, in the seventh grade. I believe he was. And his father, his father was appointed president of A &M. Shortly after that he got into some trouble, and I had him in the office and talked to him. The next day I got a phone call that the president of A &M would like to come and visit with me. And I thought oh my gosh here I've done this. And he and his wife came they walked into the office and they said, we appreciate what you did yesterday, and we just wanted to personally come by and thank you for doing that. So, I think we had a lot more corporation with the parents in those days. Ellen Horner - Horace? Horace Schaffer - I think one of the most difficult things was keeping up with the student's achievements. We had such great students, you had to really work to challenge those students. I had so much fun, it didn't seem to be much of a problem teaching. And speaking of Mr. Riedel's story, I had the same situation when I started teaching Math, with the president of Texas A &M. I gave his son a D. 12 Ellen Horner - Now wait a minute now. You gave it, or he earned it. Horace Schaffer - I put it on a report card. The student took the report card home at lunch time. At 2:00 the president of the university was knocking on my door. But it wasn't like today. Instead he said I'm leaving town, I'd like to know what I need to do to my son before I leave. That was the attitude of the parents they were very cooperative. Ellen Horner - Ken? Ken Morgan - I would like to follow up Horace comment there about keeping up with the students. I had a student, Bob Adams, he came to me and he said Mr. Morgan, couldn't we have an advanced Biology course. I said well we could try. I said you get enough students interested and I said will take it to the superintendent. We will see what we can do. Well he got the students, their names, and their concerns. They went to Mr. Riedel and they got an advance Biology course put in. That's the example of what kind of kids that we were dealing with. They, were interested in learning. And one other thing was they were kids, they'd get in trouble. And yet when they got caught they took their punishment, everybody forgot it, and it was wiped clean and we went on about our business. There was no problem. But, but they were great kids. I don't want to sound old fashion, but they were good students. And they competed. I can remember one, I maybe shouldn't call his name, Condy Pugh, learned a little slower, than a lot of the other kids. They were sharp and faster. But, Condy competed, he worked and he is now a medical doctor. And that was the way the kids worked. Ellen Horner - Art? Art Bright - I've been sitting here trying to think what problems I had. I accepted Dr. Richardson's job offer intending to stay two years, or three years at the most, get my master's degree and I was going back home to Indiana. But, I found a 13 bird in hand here at this school district, so few problems that I decided there was no place else I could go that had as few problems. So I stayed here. And my experiences are all positive. I did serve as principal of the high school for four years and got smart enough to get back out of that. Mr. Riedel gave me the job and he told me to begin with that I wouldn't like it. And it took me less than six months to figure it out. But I did have one man threaten to shoot me, one time. Told me that if he ever saw me walking down the street, he would use the rifle he carried in the back of his pickup truck to shoot me. But, If I remember right, think Mr. Riedel wanted me to press charges against him. But, I didn't. I didn't think that he was doing any more than just being loud and boisterous. And, later on I helped paint a house for his daughter. And he and I had some interesting conversations. Horace Schaffer - There was of course always exceptions, we are saying the incidents all humorous now, it wasn't at the time they occurred, but there was a family that had a young man who was difficult to keep up with during the school day. Some members of the family came to pick him up they were from Houston. They parked in the middle of the playground, just before school was out. They were shouting and yelling and screaming, they wanted the boy and didn't get out of the car. A teacher on duty told me about it, I was the principal, so I just walked on out, wasn't thinking. The closer I got to the car, I heard them calling me, calling me names and all of a sudden I heard a click, click. A shotgun was pointed at me, so I turned around and eased back into the building and called Mr. Riedel. He said he would call back in a minute. He finally told me to go back and tell them if they take the boy it's kidnapping. I said, I will go back and tell them. Well, I did, my heart was working overtime. Oh, thank goodness, after told them, I went back in, the boy with me, and they ......drove off just before the bell rang. I was so relieved. But, I ................... 14 Taylor Riedel - My positive experiences so out weight the negative one that I find it hard to remember anything. Ellen Horner - OK. Let's go to the positive experiences. Art, can you think of one that just really stands out? Art Bright - I had a student that probably was the smartest person I've ever met in my life. And we got an invitation during his junior year to a math tournament at Sam Houston. Two persons made up a team. To make a long story short. We went over there, and the test was divided in two parts. They gave you one hour test and the students had a break. And they picked up the test and they started grading. Another part of the test given and then they were picked up and taken to lunch. By the time lunch was over the test was ready and so forth. After the first part of the test, I ask him how he did and he said, "oh I did all right." 1 said, "well did you get done ?" He said, "oh I was finished in 10 minutes but I checked it three times and slept 30 minutes." And I said, "do you think you did all right ?" And he said, "I made a 100." And he made the same statement after the second part of the test. And sure enough he had a prefect score on the test. They found out he was a junior and they said OK you come back next year. If you can make a perfect score on the test, the test is too simple. They said, "we will make it more challenging next year." So the next year, we went through the same sequence. The boy said, "well they did make it harder, I only got to sleep about 10 minutes, this time." And I said, "you did OK." He said, "I made a 100." I knew everything. If I didn't, I just made a careless mistake and I would've had to make it 3 times because I checked it three times. And he made the same statement on the other one. And sure enough he had a perfect score on that one. And to this day if I meet any of the professors from Sam Houston that were there they will ask. Do you have any more Allen Laverty's. But that `U was very positive. He was so much smarter than I. I'll tell you another thing about him though. I was... Ellen Horner - Will you spell his last name? Art Bright - L a v e r t y. He was a very awkward young man. And I was coaching, teaching high school, coaching junior high basketball. And he wanted to be an athlete. And he couldn't even run up and down the floor without arm$ going this way and fall down and so forth. But, back in those days we had a policy that we never cut anybody, as long as you come out to practice . carried 8 players on a regular basis. I had a total of 15 uniforms and everybody got a chance to suit out twice. They would make one road trip and played one at home. Well Allen got to take one of the road trips and he was entertaining all the kids in the bus doing math things in his head. A student came to me for a problem that Alan could not answer. I thought and thought and finally I said, "well you ask Allen how much a million to the zero power is ?" So they came back up in a little bit and said a million. No that's not the right answer. So they went back, come back up in a little bit and said zero. No that's not the right answer. Well he stewed and he fussed all the rest of that trip. But I want you to know the next morning at quarter after seven when I got to school, he was sitting at the door. He said the answer to that is one. He said you give me a trick problem. But there were a lot of students that were a lot smarter than the teachers. I think Ken or somebody made direct reference to that. The only thing that we had was some experiences in life that they hadn't experienced yet. Ellen Horner - OK. Positive experience. Ken Morgan - I'd like to add one about his sister. And ......... I came here and started teaching in January, mid term. The only teaching I'd ever done was six weeks of student teaching as a Vocational Ag teacher. I picked up Chemistry, General Science, Biology, and Freshman Algebra. I was until twelve and one 16 o'clock every night trying to be one day ahead of the kids. Well in Chemistry had just basic Chemistry and then Organic Chemistry. Two Chemistry courses twelve hours of Chemistry. Course Penny had not had that. But, sometimes we, and I managed. But when one day I remember that the students a question came up. Somebody ask me a question, I didn't have any idea what the answer was to be. And I said what do you think about that Penny? She gave me the answer just like that. I said that's right. And we went right on. And I'm sure she was right. But Penny was one that she tried to play tennis. And Penny, I'll let Horace tell that one. Ellen Horner - OK. Horace Schaffer - That was what I was going to say. But first of all I like to repeat what I said a few minutes ago. The intelligence of the students and the cooperation of the parents couldn't get any better. But this young lady, so uncoordinated, she wanted to play tennis. I said you really think you can play tennis. She was just like her brother. She said I can play tennis. But I can not, she could not serve the ball. But, being the intelligent person she said, give me the steps in serving the ball. So I showed her one step at a time. Bring the racket up, put it behind your head, and bring it forward. That was the way she served the rest of her tennis career. But she got pretty good at it. She went to the regional finals and lost seven -five, seven -five. I remember one coach asking his top players how do you lose to someone who couldn't serve. They said coach, I was always watching her steps for serving and then ball was past me. She can serve that thing. Ellen Horner - Analytical Horace Schaffer - Yea. And all the students were like that. They were always going to find a way to complete assignments. Parents respected the teachers, 17 that was really great, because they were always ready to cooperate with the teachers. Ellen Horner - OK. Mr. Riedel Taylor Riedel - Well now I'm going to follow up. I guess we reminisce on something Ken said about Bob Adams wanting the advanced Biology class. Well Adams lived right on the corner of Timber and. Right here at the edge of the school district in the old house that. Mr. Cashion moved that off of campus, you know when they moved them off of campus. The lived over there. I got a call from Bobby's daddy one night saying that Bobby had run away from home. And I said Oh yea. Well later on that night, I thought well hum. And I walked over to the old wooden gym there and you could always get in. I got in and walked up behind the stage you know those kind of dressing area up high. And there Bobby was he wasn't over 50 yards from his house. But he had run away from home. I go, Bob what are you doing here? Well he said, well I'm running away from home. I said OK. He said, well will you tell, you're not going to tell my dad where I am are you. I said no I'm not going to tell him. So I went home and I call Homer. And I said Homer, don't worry about Bob he OK. He said where is he? I said I can't tell you where he is, but he's OK. And you could throw a rock and hit the house from where he was. Ellen Horner - How long did he stay there? Taylor Riedel - Oh he did. Just part of the night and he went back. Horace Schaffer - This young man seemed the center of attraction. But he was that type of student. He was a good student. But in Math, in the eight grade, having all the problems put on the board from homework, each one explaining their problems. Everyone had everything just perfect, well Bobby went to his problem and it was not correct, the only one, I said I can't understand it Bobby. 18 Here we have everything correct except for your problem. He said I didn't work it, Dad worked it. Ellen Horner - Oh dear. Taylor Riedel - I don't know if. I wonder if there's anywhere in this meeting, or any other groups covering the, the kind of the history of the school district. How it started. How it was formed, and so forth. Ellen Horner - We can, we can do that right now. Taylor Riedel - I think that's kind of interesting. Ellen Horner - That would be real good. Taylor Riedel - They started out on campus actually. And then when they formed what they called the A &M Consolidated district they took in first going toward Bryan. What was that Shiloh? No. Horace Schaffer - Going toward Bryan. Taylor Riedel - Yea, up toward, about midway in Bryan. Horace Schaffer - You know that's what it was called, Midway. Taylor Riedel - Midway school district. Then Wellborn school district that was independent school district at one time. And then out here at Peach Creek and Shiloh was over here. You know where they had that restaurant. And they put them all together and formed A &M Consolidated Independent School District. And the interesting then there is see there is seven trustees. And they had a gentleman's agreement that two of the trustees would come from Wellborn, and one trustee would come from Peach Creek and the other four would be from in side the city. Well there wasn't any way that could be set up legally. So it was sort of a gentleman's agreement and it. I can't tell how many years it held for years and years and years. If a Peach Creek man decided not to run for reelection. Then someone from Peach Creek would file and no one else would, We: would file no that thing. And that gentleman's agreement lasted for gollie a long time. Art Bright - Well after I came here. It was in effect when I came here. Ken Morgan - It went through Mitt Williams at least. Taylor Riedel - So that. I thought that was kind of interesting situation. Horace Schaffer - What was the first year for the school district? 1929. 1 know. Dr. T.O. Walton was a student at A &M Consolidated. Taylor Riedel - I don't remember. I mentioned to Marge Haislet that they ought to talk to Mrs. Burgess Horace Schaffer - Yes. Taylor Riedel - Ethel Burgess. She taught back in those early days. And her father was the president of the university, Dr. Walton, T.O. Walton. That earlier. And she could. I'll tell you another one they ought to talk to if they, if you can do it is Allen Kraft. You know had the Kraft Furniture store in Bryan. Ellen Horner - I think he's been here. I'm not sure, but. Taylor Riedel - It's like talking to this table, because he can't hear. You have to hallor. But, but he tells the story about living on the campus and going to school on the campus. Then his family moved to Bryan, but he still took the trolley or a bus or something from Bryan out here to, back to the campus to keep going to Consolidated school. So Allen would be an interesting person to talk to. Art Bright - Mary Leland graduated from this campus school and she attended the school when it was on the campus over there. Ellen Horner - And so did Mary Jane. Mary Jane Hirsch. Taylor Riedel - That's right. Horace Schaffer - Yea. Ellen Horner - And Nancy Tiner Reynolds. Nancy Reynolds Tiner. And Horace did. 20 Horace Schaffer - Six years on the campus. There were two schools, elementary and high school. Ellen Horner - I didn't realize that. Horace Schaffer - The elementary where I attended, I don't know the street. The one coming down by the student center. That comes to a dead end at the dormitories and the boulevard going up toward the campus from George Bush and where they meet, right there was the elementary school. It was the old community building that A &M had. And then we had playgrounds on each side all the way, or almost to where the A &M Library is. Library and back over here where all the dorms are located. And the high school I think was over by Pfifer Hall just by the Academic Building. Then the elementary and high school moved to Timber Street and Jersey Street. Taylor Riedel - That was in 39 they moved here or 40? Horace Schaffer - It was 40. 1 believe. Taylor Riedel - 40 1 believe that was right. Horace Schaffer - I believe it was 40. And we enjoyed attending school on the A &M campus. We had this big two story building for the elementary school and it was pretty nice , with all the big rooms. It was really a great place to go to school. And had your farm out behind, sheep and goats. And another side you had homes, the professors lived on campus. It was just a half block down from the school where some of the people lived. The president's home was right there on the next corner. It was very interesting attending school on campus. We did have athletics but no facilities. We practiced on the old Aggie field that it is now a parking lot on the west side of Kyle Field. We played our games there. It was sure a lot of fun. Ellen Horner - Let's talk a little bit about the curriculum. Several of you had mentioned that the curriculum was up to you. OK, can you, do you have any 21 recollection about when state curriculum started or let's just talk a little bit about it. What the kids studied. Ken Ken Morgan - I can tell you about when it started. It was about the time decided to quit teaching. They started all this stuff, about setting up curriculum. And I drug my feet, and drug my feet and drug my feet, and I retired in 1980 so along about then it's when it began. And that was mild compared to what I understand it is now. But I guess I'm a grouchy old individualist, but I think if a teacher is a teacher they know how to teach or what they want to teach within basic guidelines. And let them teach. I'll hush. Horace Schaffer - I can give you, or show you how up -to -date our school was back in the 40's. We had classes of course, all of the English; the grammar, the literature; American History, World History, we had all the math; Algebra, Trig, and Geometry. We had General Science, Biology, Physics along in there that individual teachers taught. We had Music, Homemaking, Shop, Mechanical Drawing, Typing, Spanish, and Bible. Ellen Horner - And Bible. That's interesting. Who taught the Bible courses? Horace Schaffer - Oh gosh. It was a Pastor Sweet at one time. Taylor Riedel - Different ones at different times. Horace Schaffer - Different ones would come over. Like Colornal Dunn the Aggie Band Director came over and help with the orchestra. Of course that was in the 50s after we moved over here on Timber and Jersey. But, it was also in the 40s yea. My Mechanical Drawing teacher was a Prof. at A &M. He came over and taught Mechanical Drawing. Art Bright - Who was the principal then? Taylor Riedel - Newt Heilscher. Ellen Horner - Will you spell that. Taylor Riedel - Oh no. I don't 22 Ellen Horner - Was it Newt. Taylor Riedel - H e i I s c h e r I believe Newt. We did the, we always a lot of. Especially in our, I taught Industrial Art and Shop. And we had a big program with the Industrial Art program, Industrial Education they call it now at A &M, to do student teaching. I actually did my student teaching over hear. I don't, we didn't have a whole lot. That was the main deal whether we had student teachers back in the early days I think. In our Industrial Arts, Shop, Mechanical Drawing that sort of thing. Horace Schaffer - But it, for that period of time that was a great curriculum. Art Bright - Back in that period of time Texas A &M wasn't much involved in teacher education. Taylor Riedel - No that's right Art Bright - Other that those areas Taylor Riedel - Yes, that's correct. Horace Schaffer - There was great corporation between A &M and the school. Really good corporation. In my first year of coaching football is the only time can recall an A &M Band playing at half -time for our high school team on Tiger Field. We had such a crowd, the stadium was full and people were standing all around the field and in the street Taylor Riedel - And one of the first high school radio broadcasts of a high school football game was on this old field out here. The man who has since who has been private television personality in Houston, Dick Gottlieb, I don't know whether he. He did the play, he was over at A &M as a student. He did the play by play, he was sitting on the entrance to the dressing room on the far side of the gym. There was an awning, a kind of flat overhang. He was up there on top of that, he was doing it through A &M radio station. At that time it was what WTAW? I don't remember the A &M station. But it was the local A &M radio 23 station. And he broadcast the high school football game, and it was one of the early one that was done. Horace Schaffer - I think you can kind of see how A &M Consolidated begin. Ellen Horner - Right. Art Bright - Ken, when you got the advanced Biology class, was that an accepted state course that we just weren't teaching? Or was that an entirely new course? Ken Morgan - No. The kids had to buy their own books. We strictly, it was just something that we wanted, that Bobby wanted to do and the kids went along with it. We had fantastic classes. In fact for a long time. I'll leave it that way. I had one little girl that flunked with me years later. I can't think of her name now, you'd know her I know. And she had to take it over. And the next time she decided she'd go to work. Well she went over at A &M and took advanced standing credit, got credit for Zoology. Helen Sheffield - What year was that Ken? Ken Morgan - Oh, I don't know. It was after we moved over to the new school on 2818. Ellen Horner - It'd have to be in the 70s. Mid 70s. Taylor Riedel - It had to be. Ken Morgan - OK. I'm suppose to stay. Helen Sheffield - I was teaching at Klein at that time. And I was in charge of advanced course ................... We used a freshman A &M Biology book for our course. Ken Morgan - I don't remember for sure. Helen Sheffield - It must have been around 71 or something like that. Ellen Horner - No it was later than that. 24 Ken Morgan - Oh. We were earlier than that. We were I'd say we were in the late 50s when we started that. Do you have any idea? You remember. Taylor Riedel - 60s I think it was in the early 60s. Ken Morgan - Yea, I guess it was. Art Bright - The reason I asked the question. We had student demand for a calculus class and we investigated the possibility. And the state didn't even have a high school calculus program. And we had to write our own syllabus and get it approved before we were allowed to teach it. But I don't remember what year that was. We had to wait a year, because we had to write a whole thing, and send it to the state. Taylor Riedel - Same way Art with the, with the computer. You member we put in that special computer program. With Bob Smith over at A &M and we had to write it up and send it off to the state, get them to approve it. And the kids had to actually class work here, but then they went over on the campus and used their computer lab over there. Art Bright - One of my grandkids picked up and old text book that I had around the house. And out fell a card with a lot of holes punched in it. And they said, "Grandpa, what's this ?" And I said that was the very first generation computers. You had to feed the information to the computer off a card like this. And they just can't understand that at all. Now, because they just sit down to type it in. Ellen Horner - What do you perceive as problems in the school today that you did not face? Don't everybody talk at once. Art Bright - I don't think the teachers, or the administrators, probably even school board members, get near the community support that we had in the first part of my teaching. I didn't retire until 90 so I taught in part of this deterioration. But I would say through, the late 70s the community was totally behind the teachers. Like others have said, it didn't make difference who the person was, if 25 their youngster got in trouble they backed you all the way. And I was on the tail end of an era. I think that is the biggest thing from my standpoint. Ken Morgan - It began a little bit before, before the end of the 70s with me. had a student, a good student. But she got off track like kids do. And I gave a Genetics test and I always let them take in pencil to work the problems in pencil so they could erase and get it worked right. Well I gave the test back and this girl failed, practically failed her test. And it was simple basic problems. And something told me. I didn't have it recorded. I handed it out, let them see their test, then picked them back up to record them, because I'd graded them that close to time to hand them out. Something told me that I needed to copy this girl's test. Something told me. The copy machine was broken down, I drug my feet two days. The copy machine got fixed. I went down and copied her test put it back in my room, handed them back their papers. Then she came back to me and says you missed graded this. She had changed her problems in the mean time. And I had something instinct had just told me I needed to do this. Well her father ends up coming over and wanting a conference with me, because he is backing her up. And it was one of those days we had a bomb scare and all the kids were out on the tennis court. So I was in the air - conditioned building having a conference with her and her father. He was a big wheel with the extension service at A &M. And you know we discussed it and I told him what had happened. He wouldn't, he wouldn't believe me. I said just a minute, let me go upstairs. I've got a copy of this test that I copied before I handed it back to her. And I, 1 went and got the copy, brought it back. He looked at it her and said is this your, is this your paper. She said yes. He said well had did it get changed. She said I don't know. And do you know, he never admitted to this day that she had lied about that test. And this was before 1980. But that's that's what was happening, wasthe parents were getting where the teacher was at fault. The 26 student is right. She was a good student, and I thought a basically good kid. But she had gotten in with a wrong friend in class. And they just weren't working. And if I had not copied that test, I don't know how it would have ended up. But that was in the 70s, the late 70s. Horace Schaffer - I'm glad we didn't have to cope with TV. I really think this has really put a burden on today's youth. I could see it developing all the years taught, the disrespect for the adults, and the disrespect for the teacher. The attention span is coming down. The lack of interest in going out and studying and looking for things like we have been talking about. Instead, it's time to watch TV, or see shows. Ken Morgan - And Nintendo. Horace Scaffer - Right. I think that is one of the big problems the teachers have to face now. Instead of teaching, they have sessions on how to act socially, have parties, etc. You have this, instead of time being put into basic teaching. you have all these classes to overcome what they see on TV and so forth. And you have to reward them. I know in the end of my teaching career I taught Physical Education, I could see the change in student's. I think they changed quite a bit. I'm glad I didn't have to have much of that when I was a principal. Ellen Horner - Taylor? Difficult situations today. I mean what do you think they are facing today, that they didn't? Taylor Riedal - Well I think it just, I think it just mirrors the society in general and I think it has been a breakdown of the home, and the responsibility, as far as taking responsibility for your own actions. Where you know that if you do something, then your going to be responsible for the outcome of that either good or bad. I think the schools are just mirroring the reflections of general society. Helen Sheffield - Do you think integration had anything to do with any of this you're talking about? 27 Taylor Riedel - Well, let's start. We had separate school systems here. The Lincoln School and here. And there were about a total of 90 students at the Lincoln School. I came back from vacation once, right at the end of August one year. And I had a telegram from a man who eventually became Justice of the US Supreme Court, Thurgood Marshall he was in Dallas at the time. And he said unless you integrate the school system starting with the September term they were, they were going NAACP were going to file suit on the school district. Well you know this has kind of been in the wind for a while and the Texas Legislature has passed a law that said you could not integrate the school system without first having a vote of the people, the eligible voters in the school district had to approve it. If they didn't approve it you couldn't integrate, and if you did you were going to lose your state funding. Now that, you know eventually that was thrown out as not being legal. But it was until it did though. So we, to make a long story short, our new attorney in Houston who represented the Houston School in their integration suit, Joe Reynolds. And we hired Mr. Reynolds and we got on a stair -step basis, first year integrate the first grade, the next year first and second. Helen Sheffield - What year was that? Early 70's? Taylor Reidel - No, no. Art Bright - 60's, early 60's. Taylor Riedel - Early 60's. And, and so we went through the first step. The one we integrated. Some of them, they could stay or go whatever they wanted to do. And then I'm still blamed for this but I tell you I'm blameless. There was a fire that burned half of Lincoln School down, and so that made us speed up the integration system. And we put it on a volunteer basis through seven grades, i think, and we kept the high school over there another year and then we integrated. But we really didn't have any problems at that time. There wasn't 28 any problems with integration everything worked out real smooth. I don't know, don't think, I don't think integration has had a lot to do with it. I think its had maybe, I don't know, I hate to say this on record, I think it Helen Sheffield - Lowered the standards. Taylor Riedel - Lower the standards, classroom standards have been Helen Sheffield - I retired from Hearne, I know. Taylor Riedel - Yea, yea. You know to accommodate. To more accommodate. You know we were talking about all these great students we had back then. And we did, but we, we were dealing at that time, Ken was mostly our, were college professor's kids. We had a few from, you know, from the Wellborn area, and a few from Peach Creek, but mainly they came from over on campus. So normally, I think you could say that was a better home environment. You know, education was excepted, and was respected. And as he community grew, then you know you had all other kinds of people come in. Who, I'm not saying, that the college people were any better. Maybe they weren't, weren't as good. But there's a different feeling about it, you know. Ken Morgan - But you know, there was a the, the, a challenge to kiddos then, even the Blacks made a difference. Now this was not through 50. 1 mean through the 50s. It was after we moved the school over yonder. But I, and again, I was dealing with, perhaps more a better, higher than normal, average kid in my advanced Biology classes. But I had some Black kids. I remember some girls in particular, in my classes. And those little girls worked hard, they did a good job, they were competitive. And, and I had a boy or two. One was outstanding, in fact he was blackballed by the Blacks because he was so smart. But if they were challenged then they had the right attitude. These kids did well. and, and I really enjoyed working with them. And this was after we had been integrated a while. 29 Art Bright - I happened to be in my first year as principal on the first year we were integrated. I was assistant principal the year the school burned down over there. And the next year I took the principal's job. And there were some things that happened out of integration that probably a lot of people don't know about. When I came here we didn't have lockers in this school that got torn down over here. We had little cubby holes and I was told that everybody was on the honor plan, nobody'II take anything. I didn't believe that, so I walked down the hall one day and stuck a dollar bill in a locker, in a cubby hole. I didn't know who's cubby hole it was or anything, but it was out there visible. When I came back on the way to go home, after school, the dollar bill was still sitting in the cubby hole. The person who had the locker, wouldn't touch it and nobody else touched that dollar bill. It was still there. But there were lots of incidents that happened in that first and second year after integration that when we found out who was doing them, they were White kids who thought that the Black kids would be blamed for this. Probably none of those kind of things would've ever happened if integration hadn't taken place. But I can name you at least three incidents in which very good White kids were stealing things because they thought the Blacks would be blamed for it. So, I don't know why that happened, but integration did create that kind of a problem. Ken Morgan - And there were a few problems between the Blacks. Catch one with a knife to another one's throat, once in a while. Horace Schaffer - Well i felt like in the beginning as a junior high principal i noticed a little difference, then we got over it. But I didn't see that problem in discipline, In the beginning. But again i blame TV, the media. As we go along can see things changing. But in the beginning I remember calling all the parents from the Lincoln from the Lincoln School to come over and i told them we aren't 011 planning on changing any of our rules or anything just because we were integrated, and they all agreed. Ellen Horner - If you were to select the most memorable event in your teaching career, good or bad, what would it be? The most memorable event. Ken Morgan - Well, I can think of one that was memorable. We had a lot of fun a lot of good times. But Alphonse Holik won the local science fair. Then we took him to Houston, he won the district science fair. And then he went to St. Louis for the national. This was in 62 it was after the 50s. I believe it was 62. But that little boy really got a lot out of that, and I did too. It was quite an event. Ellen Horner - Which Holik was that? Is that the one that had the shoe store? Ken Morgan - No. Ellen Horner - No. Ken Morgan - No. His father worked for the University in some capacity. Taylor Riedel - They owned all this land here originally. Ken Morgan - I don't know was that Alphonse's family too? Taylor Riedel -Yea, yea. Ken Morgan - Is that right? Taylor Riedel - John and Alphonse, what was the third one? There were three brothers. Horace Schaffer - Steve. Taylor Riedel - Steve, yea. Ken Morgan - I didn't know any of them. Taylor Riedel - Steve, John, and Alphonse they owned all this, this land here. Ken Morgan - But, and again maybe I had one other thing. We went to the science fair, science fair for sputnik in Houston. I watched these teachers they come in there and they would mother hen these kids. They had done half the work. The parents had done half of it, or all of it. my kids, our kids here at this 31 school it was voluntary nothing mandatory, they did all their science projects themselves. They sought out resource people, nobody none of the parents did. Alphonse did every bit of his. He may have found some resource people, but none of his parents did his project. they weren't educated enough to do it. And so he did it himself. And that's another thing that bothers me today is so many things there's not enough parents for the kids instead of the kids doing it. Horace Schaffer - I believe was, the things I can hardly remember is, when I was a principal I just didn't want to get out of the class rooms so I took a class of remedial math 18 boys, and it was a challenge. But I don't think I'll forget how they worked. And i don't know, it was just a lot of fun, and seeing them develop. And on open house I guess 90% of them brought parents, I think that was right. Ellen Horner- Art? Horace Schaffer- I had a couple of kiddos yell to him the wind is not hitting me but I'm drowning down here. And hail, it hailed too. We later teased him because he didn't have any hair. We could see the hail bouncing off his head. Art Bright- I'm told that the water got completely out of the ditch and up to the little platform slab area that we danced on out there, had dances outdoors. And I'm told the water got up to that, so that was all under water down through there. Taylor Riedel- Well you know, along that same lines. Horace, do you remember we had that guy named Bullock who was a policeman here? And so, he got ahold of, some way he got ahold of a tremendous smoke bomb. And we had wooden buildings back behind this, and so he goes and sets it off right out here. And this huge billows of smoke come out, looked like a monster fire. College Station didn't have a fire department then, they used the University alone over, it was on a, about half way up to the University, I mean. Where was the fire station Horace over at A &M? Anyway it was over on the campus. And 32 we, it took us a long time to recover from that. That fire drill that bust. But, it was interesting we had one policeman in College Station at that time Horace Schaffer- Norwood Taylor Riedel- No, Bull. Curtis Bullock. Norwood was the Marshall, constable. Ken Morgan- Oh that was right. Horace Schaffer- But it's .....remember how students did accept your, as a disciplinarian, and so forth. And they respected you and you mentioned .... I remember I kept telling students in junior high, when you come to the office you be polite and be quite and wait your turn in line. But, well this Peach Creek boy wandered in one morning, he was about 6th in line I was standing there watching to see, he finally got up there after about 5 or 6 minutes. And I said what do you need Travis. He said, there's a fire in the trash can by Mr. Schaffer's office. Right there by this office, and looked out and sure enough it was. I said Travis you're suppose to come in and tell us right away. And he said, you said to wait in line. And I said it was an emergency. Well I didn't think it was an emergency. So they do listen to you. Ken Morgan -Was that Travis Carroll? Hoarce Schaffer- Travis. Ken Morgan- He was a good kid. Horace Schaffer- He sure was. Ellen Horner- Well we've pretty well covered, can you think of anything else that you, you would like to go on record for, Ken? Or off the record, soto speak. Ken Morgan- Not at the moment, I guess. I really enjoyed those early years. One thing I'd like to, I'll say. I started teaching when science teachers ere a little bit scarce, I think. but a lot was expected of teachers then and we took it as a part of the job. Which I would be interested in seeing how it would work today. drove a school bus, and took kids to balsams, for no money. I filmed football 33 games for years, for no money. I did a lot of things like that. We worked football games locally, concession stands, no pay. And I didn't know the kids were good, the school was small. We had a lot of fun, there were some times when we had problems. But sometimes it bothers me a little bit when I take a look at how things look today. Horace Schaffer- How money is spent in the schools. That really tears me up. just think it's wasted, so much of it, I think it's to many. We've sot too many people in too many places we could do without. And spend it on the students. But, like you said the teachers didn't mind. I started the tennis program. I guess close to 10 years I sponsored with money, the tennis program. But, later we started getting things, that was the way it was handled ........with the superintendent. You didn't go in you had to fill out, depending on if I need a bus, got to fill out this. I get a dollar for this, I fill out this, fill out this, and fill out this. That was one reason I quit coaching tennis. But we go into, we were a small school, I grant you that. But you check out your money, you bring back what you don't spend and sign. That way I don't think, I wouldn't dare spend very much money I wanted to bring it back. And it just worked real good. But I realize we were small then. But I think some of those principals could still be applied to a certain degree. Ken Morgan -Well I remember several years, Mr. Riedel let me go to the national science teachers conventions. I had a cab -over camper on a pickup. And he let me have a credit card. I bore all my expenses. I lived in the camper. My wife went, it became her annual vacation for her, and I went to the national science teachers meetings. In Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Arizona, in Virginia, Oklahoma, and all I had to do was, he give me, let me have a credit card for my gasoline. And that was, it benefited me from going to professional meetings. And the 34 school really wasn't out except a substitute teacher and some gasoline. You remember those? Taylor Riedel- Oh yea. Yea, I remember them well. Art Bright- Well, as I said before, I came here thinking I'd be here two or three years and I was going back home to Indiana. But, I have nothing but good memories of all my relationships with students and teachers in the school district. When Dr. Richardson left I'm sure Mr. Riedel didn't know about this, but three different times, he tried to recruit me. He didn't come to me personally, but he sent word by, graduates from this school that taught for him. And three different occasions they came by and told me that Dr. Richardson had a job for me down on the coast. And at the time they were paying three, four thousand dollars more than here. But I never even contacted Dr. Richardson, because what few problems I had here, I knew how to face them. And to go someplace else you got new problems you've got to work with. And I have nothing but positive memories of teaching in this school district. Ellen Horner- This is looking to the future in view of your experience. What impact do you see the doubling the size of the high school on the students in this district. Art Bright- Well I taught in this school district in high school from the time we had about 205 students until 1,500 1 guess when I retired. And I'm going to tell you that the best time was from 450 to 600 students. When you've got a high school in that range we had all the academic programs basically that we have now. There are some special programs we didn't have that have been government created. But, we were teaching Calculus and teaching advanced Biology and so forth. I know from a cost basis probably it cost less for student to have one big school. But, I think, schools are too big. I would say from my experience 600 students is a maxium sized school. When you have 600 35 students, every student knows every other student, every teacher knows every student, and every student knows every teacher. And it just eliminates a whole lot of problems when everybody knows everybody. Ken Morgan- And a lot of times you had taught nearly everyone of them. There was a time when you taught everyone of them, and I taught everyone of them. We knew them by name, we knew their background, we knew where they'd been. Art Bright- Even if you didn't teach them you knew them. Ken Morgan- Right. Art Bright- Because they'd come in with friends for something and so you knew everybody. I guess the cost per student may be high. But, if it was left up to me I would not have enlarged our present high school. I would have started another high school. Horace Schaffer- I agree with Art. The larger you get the more discipline you nave, the more discipline you have, the less teaching you have. And I just think it's going, starts being a problem. I don't know that minor, but I think of one little old thing, like the city. You have one huge school where people come from every place to this school. Where if you had another high school out, your traffic would be different in the community and so forth. It wouldn't be so jammed up in one place, it just going to be concentrated there. And in this community it seems like the student's a number. I mean there's so many of them. I remember 1500, 1 wonder where number 1 is. This is my personal opinion, I think they made a mistake. I didn't vote for it. I'll be honest about it, I'll even go on record. I just don't like it. Ken Morgan- Well another thing that had bothered me over the years, and again I have been out since 80, so a lot of things have changed during that time. But I remember when the superintendent and his secretary, and maybe an M assistant superintendent ran the school system and we had a 1000 or more students then in high school. And now you've got all this echelon of assistants, to assistants, to assistants with unbelievable salaries. And I really question the wisdom of it, that's my personal feelings. Art Bright- Well having taught through the 80s and 90s I have to add one thing to that Ken. Part of that echelon has been created by government regulations. Taylor Ridel- Oh yea. Ken Morgan- Federal, State, and even local. Art Bright -In order to comply with regulations you just had to put in more and more personnel. Ken Morgan- But that does not teach students. Art Bright- No. It just adds to the paperwork. Ken Morgan- I realize that a lot of it is brought on by mandates. But I questions our schools being as big as they were 20 years ago. That's sad. And not only that I'm real concerned about this, out -come based education and goal 2000, and all that garbage. And I hear that it's getting, it's here to a degree. You're familiar with some of that aren't you? Us former teachers, I think should start taking some stands on this, whether it does any good or not. My granddaughter came in recently, she's a freshman in high school. And, by the way Jerry has banned television in his house. They don't watch television, they don't even know what the news says. They don't do it. He said it was a waste of everbody's time. She came in with a 44 on something. And he said you made a 44? Yea, but I can take the test over. You get a 70 if you make a 100 the second round. What are we doing? The kids are using the same system, my own grandkids use it. Where's you competition? Where's you initiative? Where's the, reality? The old real world out here isn't quite that way. K1l Art Bright- That's one of the big changes. Teachers used to set the standards in their classrooms. And I don't think teachers have that poragative very much anymore. Standards are set by Edict, and publications, and so forth, coming out of Federal and State agencies. Ken Morgan -But now my, my. Art Bright -Like you say, our people used to tell us, if you don't teach we'll find somebody who can. That was a big challenge to me when I came here. When the principal told me that, man, I felt I'd better get on the stick and work. Ken Morgan -My grandkids in elementary school, appear to be getting good training from what I can gather. We have one in the first grade, and she is already reading and they're using phonics. The right method of teaching reading basically. I think they are doing a great job, but when they hit 7th grade. 1 don't like what's happening. Ellen Horner- Well they don't have Mr. Schaffer and me anymore. Horace Schaffer- The teachers have a tougher time. Taylor Riedel- There's no question about that. Ken Morgan- Well the earn every penny they make. You know, and I compare their salaries evenly, even if you compensate. They still get paid a lot better than we did. Taylor Riedel- But they put up with a lot more. Ken Morgan- But I wouldn't do it. But I wouldn't do it for their salary. Taylor Reidel- Well the first year I came here my salary was $2,400. Ken Morgan- Well that was state base wasn't it? Taylor Reidel- Yea. Ken Morgan- Well mine was $2,600, and I had a masters. Art Bright- I'll add to that story, why I came here. I didn't come the first year because I refused to take and early release. But the next year Dr. Richardson M offered me the job, and so I finally decided the same reasons that were valid the year before were still valid, so I told him OK. So, I was going to resign in Missouri, but you never resign a job until you've got one in the other hand. Even though I knew I wasn't going to teach there I refused to resign until I gotten a contract. Two weeks went by and they were pushing me, and I hadn't received a contract, so I called Dr. Richardson. He said, "sure you have a job." And I said I haven't got a contract. He said "we don't use contracts. When I gave you my word that was it." I said," Dr. Richardson if you think I'm going to move 700 miles on one man's word, you've got another thought coming. If I don't have a contract, I'm not coming." "OK." he said. And about three days I got every place it said. Bryan wasn't an independent school then, it was Bryan something else, forget. Ken Morgan- It was run by the city. Taylor Reidel- The city. Ken Morgan- Bryan, Bryan School District. Art Bright- Well anyway, every place it said Bryan in there it was all Xed out. And College Station School District or A &M Consolidated School District was typed in. So I signed it and returned it. And come down. At the time, we could take our salaries either on a 9 month basis or 12 month basis. And since I come to get a master's degree, I was going to go to school during the summer, so wanted to make sure mine was on a 12 month basis. I had signed a contract for $3,200. And I prorated that out, over a 12 month period. I knew, within a few pennies of what my taxes should be. And what I was going to pay for TR, Texas professional organization and so forth. And I had that all budgeted out. And I knew just pretty near what my check should be. I got my first check and it was considerably bigger. And I was worried to death about that. And I finally told my wife that I had to go down and talk to them. I thought they made a mistake and 39 they were paying me on a 9 month bases. And along about March or April we'll find that out, and I won't have anything to eat on during the summer time. So I went in to Dr. Richardson's office. I forget the secretary's name. Ken Morgan- Patsy Taylor Reidel- Barker Art Bright- Yea, Mrs. Barker. Ken Morgan- Mrs. Baker, that's right. Taylor Reidel - Mildred Baker. Art Bright- And she wanted to know if she could help me. And I said, well don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but I think I'm being overpaid. Well Dr. Richardson was back in the room, and he came running out and said what do you mean you're getting overpaid. I said, well I figured this all out and I said I'm getting more than I think I'm suppose to get. He said, well how do you know what you are supposed to get. I said well according to this contract. He said what contract. I said well this contract that you sent me. Let me see that. He took it and read it. Rip, rip, rip, rip he threw it in the waste basket. And I thought my God. And he said go get the school board minutes. That's that's what's official. So she came back. He thumbed through and he said look here said the school board minutes your getting 3,600. 1 said well that's not what you told me. Then he laughed, he'd set me up for all this. I was, since I'd given him such. He laughed and he said well he said when I talked to you about a salary said that was the state minimum. He said I knew that I could pay you that much, and you agreed to come for that much. He said I didn't know what I was going to be able to get for you coaching he said. That was determined afterward, he said I just chose not to let you know. Horace Schaffer- Back to you question of future. I still think the moral's of our society until it changes can't work. You can have committee meeting whatever 40 you want, it will be a tough job. I'd see it at Church. You know meeting, council meeting. What are we going to do, of getting people to come to Church. What are we going to do, get someone to serve on a committee. And the student won't come to Sunday school. And they're cutting up in Sunday school. And that's at Church not at school. I know I was Sunday school superintendent for 20 something years. And about 5 years ago when I quit, just before that, I had a young man, a young boy just wouldn't behave what so ever, I don't know what to do with him. I said OK I'll take the class. Sure enough there he comes. I said come with me. So I went over to Adult Bible class pulled a chair up by his dad, you sit with him today. He told me after Church and wanted to know what happened, I told him. OK will you teach it again next time, we'll see if he can't do a little better. But I think we need more of that direct challenge there to get the, going to tell you what to do. I mean the teachers, and I can understand. I'm not knocking the teachers they are afraid of they to do something, now days. Because the public is just on top of them. It is tough to get something done. Ellen Horner- Well I think perhaps a lot of this disrespect for adults has come from the 60s. Our parents today or products of the 60s and the flower kids and Ken Morgan- Some of them are. Not all of them. Ellen Horner- No, I didn't mean all of them. But there Ken Morgan- OK, but I know what you're saying. Because my kids are babyboomers and they are not that kind. Ellen Horner- Well mine were a little bit too young, for the ba, by about 5 years for babyboomers. Its I think that has had an effect on them. Ken Morgan- I agree, I agree. I have a story similar to Art's about Les. He promised me a job, there was no contract. We didn't even talk about a contract, I'd never worked for a school system, I didn't have a contract where I worked. And I was moving over 500 miles, to come here. And after I got here, I don't 41 know whether, how accurate it was. But someone told me that said, we weren't sure you had a job when you got here. I said What, well Dr. Richardson sort -of. Hadn't really committed himself to this. I, that bothered me, because I did go to work when I got here. And then later on I did like Art I put it on 10 month schedule and started at mid -term. So I had a semester work to pay me for 2/3 of a year. Well I was taking home a $170.00 per month. And Les ask me one day how's it going? I said well frankly, I'm having a little trouble buying groceries. He said really, and I said yea. I said my salary is scheduled out through the summer, cause I don't know what, whether I going to have a job through the summer or not. He said the next school board meeting, "I'll see what I can do." So he went to the school board and came back next week whispered in my ear and said you've got a raise coming, but we don't tell anybody this but our wives. Ellen Horner- This has been very informative and very interesting. And you want another one? Ken Morgan- Am I suppose to fill out something? Ellen Horner- Yes, Ken Morgan- Somebody. Ellen Horner- Paper work. Ken Morgan- Marge asked me if I wanted to bring some pictures. So I brought some pictures that you'll, some of you'll might want too see. Ellen Horner- OK Taylor Reidel- Let's see them Ken. Ellen Horner- I'm supposed to tell you that they would like to keep them for a little bit so they can make copies of them. Is that OK? Ken Morgan -Most of them are pictures that I don't know. Mr. Reidel and all of them, Horace and Art will remember some of those. The cheerleaders, Taylor Reidel -Ann Fleming. E,% Ellen Horner- If you know who they are put their names on the back. Taylor Riedel- Ann Fleming. Ken Morgan- Well one of them is a Ross. This is Ross. One of them is a Putty Helen Sheffield- Do you want me to turn it off. Ellen Horner- Yes. Taylor Riedel- That's Putty. And that Rogers. That's Clara Rogers. Ken Morgan- That's Clara Rogers. End of meeting 11:15 a. m. 43