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HomeMy WebLinkAboutEarly Education I Panel Group 2Early Education Oral History Group 2 Floris Sheppard Kitty Worley * *Floris Sheppard has yet to return her transcipt Marge- I'm Marge Haislett and I'm a moderator this morning and I came to College Station to teach in 1968 and I taught first grade at College Hills through 1972. Kitty- I'm Kitty Worley and I came to the district in 1955. 1 taught from 1955 to '62 in the second grade. I also taught from '62 to '88 in the high school, and during the years '57 -'58, 1 taught only the last three months. Floris- Floris Sheppard. I came here in 1957 and I taught the second grade. Marge- Thank you, I thought maybe we'd begin this morning by describing the facilities. We know what schools are like now, what was the school like when you taught? Kitty -Well, I'd like to answer that question first because I think that I have never taught in a room as convenient as that second grade room that was behind the present cafeteria. It's a gym now, I think, for the middle school, but it was a cafeteria also up on the corner of Timber. Those rooms were made so that the walls under the windows, had blackboards that could be lifted up and you had places where you could make dioramas. I'm sorry that I don't have pictures of some of the wonderful things we made in those places. There was a row of closets the what would be the front of the room, which was a blackboard facing the kids, but it was full cupboards facing the place where you hung your clothes. And there was a bathroom, a toilet in the room. On the window side, toward the playground, were closets and also shelves and this was at the students level, so that you could paint all along there, stand and use that for painting. It was the most wonderful complete room I have ever taught in. The other thing I want to say about that is when they were getting ready to build College Hills, they had to cut down, they couldn't make the rooms quite as large and I remember Taylor Reidel, superintendent, saying to me " I'd love to have the faculty meeting in my room because it made me clean up and have just proper writing on the board and all the displays. You don't need all this space." When at any rate, under the window I had, of course, school opening, Halloween, Thanksgiving, everything in good order. I've never had anything in that good order since, and I , when Taylor said something about, "Kitty, you don't need all this space ", I just went over to that door and said, "Oh, yes I do ". Here's the opening of the school, etc. Marge- So you helped plan the new building? Kitty -Well, they didn't pay as much attention to us as we'd like cause of course Christine Dulaney knew all about that. Maybe it was better use of space, you can tell cause some of you taught there, Marge. Marge- Floris, what do you remember about the facilities? Floris- Well, 1 didn't get a place like Kitty. I stayed in those in one little room thing. Kitty- I stayed but you were further over so your room was different, I never moved either. Floris- It was adequate. We had plenty of room and good seats for the children... Kitty- But your room didn't have a bathroom, did it? Floris- No, it didn't. we did not have a bathroom and my children had to go outside. Kitty- Those rooms were made first for elementary and then for upper elementary. They had separate toilet areas. Marge- Now were you in the row of cement block rooms where Mrs. Coulter was, were you in that? Floris- No. In the wooden structure. Marge- You were in the wooden structure that's supposed to be temporary. Floris- Yes. Marge- They are still using those today I believe. Floris- Well some of them still... Kitty- I believe the last one went recently. Floris- I can remember driving by there and noticing but I think a lot of them are gone. Marge- Well, were either one of you in the rooms where the partitions could be folded back and make one long room? V Kitty- Yes. Floris- Yes. Kitty- Well I taught with Georgia Williamson. I thought you two were together... Marge- In third grade, I know it was like that. Kitty- And in second grade, I had Georgia Williamson and she was good in music and I wasn't very good in piano playing but I was good in like (singing), course, the musicians, Marge and Floris, put me to shame later. That was a good feature, and for anything special, like a program, you could push it back. Floris- I believe we'd had the same thing but I can't remember who the teacher was. Kitty- I traded music for Spanish a couple of times ... In another room I would go and they would push it back when Mary May Sorenson was there. Marge- She taught third grade didn't she? Floris- Yes. Marge- Cause that when I used to come but that was in 1960. Kitty- That was a little later. Marge- How about playgrounds in the early years? Kitty- I thought the playground was wonderful. We taught all of our own PE. You know, we taught Thread the Needle, Snatch the Bacon, Deep River and other traditional games. We had regular material that we followed. I don't think there was much supervision and nobody was coming over to see that we did it but I know we played "Snatch the Bacon ", and "Red Rover." We could play on the area in front of our rooms but there was a grassy area behind the brick buildings, there was ... behind where the cafeteria was there on Timber corner, there was an area. There was also a little driveway there into the place, I remember playing games where you needed a firmer surface or a relay. I really liked teaching PE. and I liked doing jumping rope and you know the numbers could be done in Spanish and if I sound like I really would like to go back to teaching the second grade, I kind of think I would. 3 (all laugh) Marge- Well, how about the curriculum? What emphasis was there? Floris- Well reading, writing, and arithmetic was the main thing, so you got those in but I don't think I've been in any school that had any more extra things coming in. You had somebody come in and help with music, you had somebody come in and help with other activities. You had to do most of your own art, you had to do your own bulletin boards, things like that, but those are things that you involve the children. But as far as for outside help, I don't think, support, I don't think I ever had that. Kitty- In the summer of '55, Frank Colter and other parents of children, as far as I know that I was going to have in the fall, I don't really remember how early we got the list, we painted the room and Frank wanted colors that were alive ... Mine were bright green, bright orange, and a cream color, that was especially pretty I think. That was done by parents. What was the question right before this? That I didn't answer? Marge- Curriculum. Kitty- I think it's exciting about curriculum cause Christine Dulaney worked with me more than once in the summer before I was hired. Actually I went right in when I came to College Station in February I came to talk to Les Richardson, superintendent, and then later that summer we went away. When I came home, there was a letter, and I can remember running almost from our house to the school thinking that they might have hired somebody else, you know, because we weren't here to get that mail. But it was so exciting and Les Richardson made me an offer as 2nd grade teacher immediately. Christine came over before school started and we went over the workbooks, the textbooks, and I don't remember any place, ever, that 1 taught where you got right on the line and you know what was required that you take, and I wonder how many weeks long it was now, but it seemed like four weeks of Zola Knowles and Mrs. Sloop's method. I thought that was wonderful and I had just finished in Houston Cl something that I thought would be similar. No way, that was one of the best courses I ever took. Marge- Let me ask you, Les Richardson was the superintendent? Kitty- When I was hired, yes. Marge- In 1955? Kitty- Yes. Marge- Well, tell us a little about the Sloop method. You taught the Sloop method, too, didn't you, Mrs. Sheppard. Floris- I taught whatever... Kitty- You taught that material which was an emphasis on phonetics. Marge- Can you tell us how that was developed? Kitty- Mrs. Sloop had already died, I believe. She was out in California, They moved from here, and the Economy Company still used Mrs. Sloop's name on the material when we received it. It was a very, I say, strenuous course for students. They really had to know their phonetics. She had the first one that she published herself or she printed and put out herself for her classes in the first grade. Marge- And that was here? Kitty- That was here and developed in College Station. And Tag was a goat, because Tag gave you a short "a" and goat gave you your "o" and your a silent "a ". You know the first one says his name and the second one goes to sleep. But the publishers changed it to a dog when I came along and dog is not hard to teach. Marge- Do you think children were successful with that method? Kitty- Yes, very successful. It wasn't the only thing we used of course 'cause the basal texts came with many other approaches to reading but that was the one that we stressed, Mrs. Sloop's method by way of the Economy Company, workbooks and readers. Marge- There were no kindergartens in the public school at that time were there? 5 Kitty- No. Marge- So children came to you all ready to learn, not having had been taught the ABCs and all, at that time. Kitty- Of course I was teaching the second grade and I think the first grade had done remarkable preparations, you know, getting the children ready and getting them to the second grade at a point where when I taught in Houston I felt like the third grade didn't do it quite as well in some cases. The first year I came, I taught a special group, because of some work I got in Houston but after that we switched back and forth. Marge- Was there any such thing as special education classes in Consolidated at that time? Kitty- It was started by Polly Kent. Do you remember? That the first special education room was the one on that long row of brick buildings. Polly Kent took special training and may have already had a lot of special training. There were in the second grade at that time just four of us, Georgia Williamson, and I were in that first building and in the second building was Christine Dulaney and Shirlene Bailey. And I think that it would have been after, I don't when it was started whether it would have come under this, you know, these years, whether it had been '59. We ought to ask Polly Kent what the first year was. But I think that it is so significant because until that time, we had children in our classroom that we had to go one -on -one. And often I had community helpers, so that reading groups and so forth could go forward in spite of the fact that you would have a child that would eventually go into special education. I know some of you can remember some of those children, precious children. Marge- Did you teach handwriting in those days? You know, nowadays, it seems, anything goes so long as you can read it. Can you tell us a little bit about handwriting? Kitty- Yes, we had a handwriting book that we didn't always use. But, it had the basics that we could teach them. The children, mostly they were in the second grade -they could still print, but we did begin to do cursive writing. And when you start that, they D were so proud of being able to write like mom and dad, you know like real writing. To them that was real writing. They had their little books and they would try. Marge- Were you very strict on the formation of the letters even with the printing, starting in the correct places and all? Kitty- Yea, yea. well, we would try to, well, the thing that where it worked out where it was the easiest to teach and I felt these people had done a lot more work and investigation on it than I had, so I was to follow the instructions book. Marge- Well, you know that's one of the criticisms today that we are not teaching handwriting very well. I wondered if you felt that it was the quite strict adherence to the guides at the time? Kitty- Well, I don't want to get on a soap box here, but I feel very strongly about that program and I know that most third grade teachers, even here, wanted us to teach writing rather early in the year. So that they could then start immediately with the teachers writing on the blackboard so that there was a great deal of discussion. I'm very proud of my handwriting today because when I write nine mean men mining in the mine, I write with all the hills the same. I cared about writing. There's a thousand ways to teach it. I had a lot of training and used it in teaching handwriting. So, I'd like to go and teach some courses in handwriting right now. Floris- Well it would bean improvement. Kitty- None of my grandchildren, no not one, not one of my grandchildren write the way we were brought up to write like Floris- Real cursive writing, I mean let's say the Palmer method, Amen! Marge- Thinking about the whole school day, Kitty would you start in the morning and just kind of run through the schedule of what you did? Kitty- I? Marge- What did you do first? 7 Kitty- I think it's a good thing that these two aren't here to chime in, but I don't think Floris will mind because when Barbara was born and I went, I didn't teach the year'58- '59 until the end of the year. So when I came to that program at the end of the year and tried to do what I had done before and what I was going to manage to do there after, the very first day I only got through ... I'm talking about when I came back, the very first day I only got through three reading groups. No math, no geography, no science. I mean, I was shocked. The children behaved themselves, but there was just something about the way we organized our day and it was well organized. You had your three reading groups, generally three reading groups. And while you had that, those reading groups, the children that were still to come were being prepared. Maybe you had the organization of materials on the blackboard so that each group knew what they were to do. They had arithmetic to do when you worked with arithmetic and you worked with the circles and primarily of course the reading, the arithmetic, and the spelling. Every day and especially in the morning was very well choreographed. You know how it was, everybody liked to do it. I don't remember problems. Floris- You could get it organized and the children knew what they were supposed to be doing when, what, they would just start getting out what they knew that this was going to go to reading and you had the outline of math and you wrote it on the board and they just got busy. Marge- Well how did you begin at the very first? Were there any announcements from the principal? You know, did you have the Pledge of the Allegiance or did you sing or how did you start the day? Kitty- Well, we did start the day with the Bible and a prayer and a salute to the flag. I don't remember any controversy at any time. I do remember one child and I let the children read the Bible quite often maybe more than I read myself. We read the 23rd Psalm, the 24th Psalm. I don't remember reading anything except Psalms, but maybe we read some others, the 100th Psalm. Anything like that, so the children read and t':' then it was always very short. Then it was the Lord's Prayer and then it was the salute to the flag and then for most of those years that I taught I also jumped rope and counted how far and put it up on the board how far I got that day and how many more that was and that was just an opening routine of jumping the rope. Marge- Everybody jumped rope? Kitty- Just me. And I jumped the rope. I remember that this was basic to how far I got this time, how much further it was, did you think I'd get that far tomorrow, you know, etc. because I loved to jump rope. Marge- Teaching math? Kitty- Well, you threw it, you put these things in all the time because its a self contained classroom but they did have, they had the stick, book, workbooks, and they did have to do specific jobs and you did teach math. You didn't just let them be there with a workbook, but you had to get your reading groups done and everybody had a reading group. I would like to tell you that one of my favorite readers is still in town if you would like to talk to Penny Hancock Hervey. She could make Mr. Joe's rabbits just scared to death of that fire. I still can remember, everything that she ever read was like that. Marge- Floris, did , do you remember if the district told you how many minutes that you had to spend on reading and how many minutes you had to spend on math? Floris- I don't remember if I was told how much time we had to spend on it. Kitty- We were encouraged. Floris- Well, you were encouraged to do it but they didn't say you had to. It was an outline that you could fit your program into because to get reading circles you got to, you've got to have all these things going at the same time. Marge- But not like the Education Act in Texas of 1984 where the teachers were required to spend thirty minutes on math and eighteen minutes on spelling. Floris- No, no. we didn't have any of that. Nobody told me what I had to do. E Kitty- We had the science cirriculum. Floris- Kitty and Georgia Williamson Kitty- And you are exactly right and Christine Delaney told us exactly really and we had regular meetings and even when they went to College Hills, Shirley, Christine and Georgia Williamsons, we went over there and still kept ourselves together. That is so that we knew what we were teaching in science and what we were teaching in related courses just because we taught some related geography and a little Texas History. You know, a little, but it was all a worked so, so you had a scope really because after all, it was important what we taught before the third grade came. I don't know if I have one of those anywhere but I have seen it so that you saw the, you know, the scope and sequence and we had, for instance, all the spelling books for our own grade. But I can remember that say, Martha Nemec, I took her through the fourth grade spelling book. I don't think that anybody would complain later where I think nowadays sometimes maybe they complain if you go to far, I don't know. We seemed to be able to go as far as we could. Floris- Let them go ahead otherwise they get bored. Kitty- But they really did emphasize more in reading particularly, that you not go on but that you go across that because Consolidated had a book room full of every basal text that I think that had ever been done. You'd always remember Neighbors on the Hill and we always did that, we sent for the maple syrup. We had a toaster and servedthe syrup on toast you know that there were certain things that you did that enriched the reading program without ever going into a third grade reader. There was no need to do that. Although we certainly had readers that could have read anything. The spelling text was the only thing I ever went, you know, "out." You know there's just lots of arithmetic that you can do without going out of your level of textbook. 10 Marge- You touched on discipline just briefly but ... What, how did you manage the children in those days? Can you, can you remember some of the ways that which you could manage their behavior? Floris- Isolation was the best. Marge- Isolation? Where could you put them? Floris- Well, we each had a cloak room and you could put them there and keep them in sight where you could watch them. (put on a show for the children.) Kitty- It's funny I don't remember it very much because I think I taught in the second grade seven years and in the third grade too. It was so different than high school that I mean you could manage- management is important, I think. But you could look at somebody and that was all they needed. Now there was a time, and we were allowed in those days, I guess you would say, to spank lightly if you, if you reported it. And I was paddling a little boy with my hand. Now that was a last resort, when his mother walked in because we were going to go to the picnic and she said, you know, "let me help you ", and of course we explained what the problem was and that how many times we had, asked him to stop. We didn't have the business that came later you remember you put a check, a mark on the blackboard but you had some of your own methods and they knew when they went to far something had to be done even if it was a little pat on a you know what. Marge- You could give a little pat in the classroom? Kitty- 1, 1 don't think you really could. I think, cause I know in Houston it was the same way. You would have had to call. I don't remember ever touching anybody like that except that one little boy and it was a pat and I don't remember. And we certainly wouldn't have used anything but our hands. But in Houston, I remember that the rule was that you went, you know, you sent for the principal and you had two witnesses I said I'm never going to paddle anybody. 11 Floris- But there are other ways that you can do that because paddling many times is a reflex and then, and then you, it gets out of hand and so if you just stop, think well the other way, there are other ways of isolating this child and making him realize his unbecoming behavior that you're not going to put up with it. So, I don't remember ever having to really feel like I had to paddle. Kitty- No, I didn't, but I didn't used to. And I think it's important in a way to mention it in relation to our discussion here that we were very close to the children. We knew their parents, we might know their grandparents, we certainly knew their older brothers and sisters, where in Houston, when I taught that one year in Houston I said I'm never going to paddle somebody and on one day, this was the third grade, I paddled three. But with all the, you know, the witnesses, the principal, and so forth and I and you always hear these kind of things and then I never had another moments trouble with those three boys. And that's true. They, they were pushing me in a sense to that point. Now there was a darling little boy in Houston. His mother came and she said, "If he ever misbehaves, you wop him ". Well, I wouldn't, why that child was so fragile. See, he lived scared because he had a mother that would ask you to wop him in front of the child and actually in front of anybody that would listen. So you see, we really didn't have a displine problem to speak of. Marge- Because you had a more personal intimate situation here with knowing the community. Kitty- Yes, that's right. It was a totally different situation. Marge- Speaking of community, in what ways were parents involved? That's a big topic in education right now. With all these organized programs getting parents or grandparents to come into the schools. Did that take place when you were on campus? Kitty- Well, that was the best thing about teaching in Consolidated. Mrs. Delaney, I'm sure told us exactly how to organize it. We had room mothers, Mrs. O.D. Butler, 12 Dorothy Clark. I can name you all I think of the ones I had in those years because it was done a little differently. They were a committee and they helped for each party that you had. And of course somebody like Mary Owens, who you can imagine could be a "ghost" and come visit your classroom and of course somebody like Dorothy Clark was a professional anyway. I can still tell you the kind of things that she did and anything that was done for us, was always done in the best way of cooperation. Floris- we had excellent cooperation as far as I can remember. Marge- What kind of parties, what parties were you allowed to have? Floris- Well, we had a Halloween and the we had Christmas, Valentine's. Kitty- Valentine's was probably the best because you were almost over excited at Halloween and then Christmas is you know a busy time for everyone. Floris- Thanksgiving of course we had a little something. It wasn't very a party but we usually had a program based on the history of why we have Thanksgiving and the first Thanksgiving. And they loved it. They loved it. And they loved to make those turkeys and those hats. And they got to put them all the way around the bulletin board. Everybody's so proud. Kitty- And the turkey that you make with your hand, that was even done then. And the turkey with the pine cone. Marge- Did you have an Easter party? Floris- We used to have like a little Easter egg hunt with little candy eggs and things like that. It wasn't, because it wasn't everybody that especially if you had foreigners that had no idea what it was they just loved the eggs. But people that did not always go along with that idea but you just go ahead and have an Easter egg hunt and it don't matter. But Easter is observed overseas too and so they didn't mind having a... Marge- How about the end of school? Kitty- That was wonderful. I can remember every single picnic. A mother and I were talking about it the other day and that you could not ask children today, there again I 13 don't always emphasize it how much it seems different than what we know, but starting out from here, we walked to the corner of Park Place and, Suffolk, I guess, and had, this is one, sometimes we'd walk to the Billy Goat Bridge Park but, you know, you went fairly early in the morning while it was cool. But this is one I remember, that I don't remember any problem with it. And yet we walked past what was the county road which is Holleman but we stopped at the Owens' and then at the Novak's and then we went on to back of that lot that belonged to the Divens, the Holicks, the Holicks had a store there. That was a long walk! I assume, I'm fairly sure that cars must have brought us home cause I don't remember the walk home. But I remember very well, if anybody was tired we just played a little Swiss Navy Halt. You know, one of those kind of games. Marge- What did you do after you got to the picnic site? Kitty- Always had a regular meal, like your lunch. Marge- Play games, too? Kitty- And play games. In that case, I suppose, I know we read stories at each place. Mary Owen wasn't living in that house then, that's the other family, but, and then the Novak's, too, Chris Novak's family. Marge- And their children brought their own sack lunch? Kitty- Yes, I think so, don't you, I know we had some kind of treats. Floris- We had some treats I think they brought their own kind of sandwich. Kitty- Yes, I think so. Floris- Children are finicky, they bring their own sandwich. Kitty- But I remember that they didn't necessarily have to carry them to the site. Marge- Maybe the room mothers helped out there. Kitty- Oh, another time we walked to the Kling's, you know the Kling's live on Pershing. And so there were places that we could go that were close and away from the school ground that was a treat to go to. We also went to, this is not the picnic, but we went to 14 the Bonfire every year, two by two, except for the year when Barbara was born in October and I didn't come teach until the end of the year, and I don't know if they went to the Bonfire. But do you remember going to the Bonfire two by two? Floris- No, I think that must have been after I left. Kitty- No, I think it must have been Will Worley's Aggie wife or something. I don't know but I remember going every year and it was a very big thing because you got all the Smoky the Bear and all kinds of ecology tied in with it. Marge- So you taught Smoky the Bear then? Kitty- Very definitely. A &M helped a lot. Marge- Did you have students coming on the campus very much? Kitty- I did quite a bit. I don't know if you did. Floris- No, I don't remember the students coming. Kitty- For the four years I taught on the campus... Floris- You taught longer than I did. Kitty- I did. Marge- Let me ask you one other question... Kitty- '55 to '60. Marge- Excuse me. Say that again. Kitty- I was just saying since I started in '55. Marge- One other question before we take a little break. Can you tell us what you thought the role of the principal was? I, 1 remember Ms. Criswell, what a soft - spoken, kind person she was. Her role as a principal, how did you see it? What kind of leadership did she provide and how do you feel she was able to help you to be a master teacher? I know that's going to take a little thought. Kitty- Well, I was trying to give Floris a little time. It seems like I'm always ... well, I was here and Mrs. Criswell, to me, is a, heroin. I mean ... she's the most tremendous person. 15 Floris- Very cooperative. Very cooperative. And if you tried to get off track of something, you didn't even know she had pushed you back. Marge- So she was able to lead by helping you find the right direction? Floris- That's true. Marge- Not real direct. Floris- She didn't say you have to do this, this is the way we're going to do it, 1- 2 -3 -4. No, she did not do it that way. You were left on your own until you felt that you needed some help and she was there. She didn't ever say, "well you didn't do it right, this way it should be this way ". She just lead you through it until you recognized what had to be done. Marge- So as a teacher you felt that you had a great deal of freedom. Kitty- Yes. Marge- did she encourage you to try new things? To try new ways? Floris- I think so, she did. She gave me ideas of what to do. Maybe some of the other people who had more education in education than I had because I had, my studies were to work with boys, club boys and girls and Home Demonstration, women... Home Demonstration clubs working with both children and adults. My children were up over the children I was teaching, working these Home Demonstration clubs. But I relied on Kitty... Kitty- And Christine. Floris- And Christine and Georgia Williamson. Kitty- Oh my, weren't they good? Floris- Great, great. Kitty- And Elora Dale, everybody lived the whole thing. I mean, we all came early, we stayed late. I'm sorry if I sound like we were like the ideal teachers, but that's the way I remember it. Floris- We did. 16 Kitty- Of course it was such a nice thing for me because my older children were in this school and could come to my room. Actually, when Barbara was born in that October, I didn't expect to come back until she would be in Kindergarten at school, but when they asked me to come back, I just came in a hurry. And I guess she didn't suffer. Marge- Well, did you do things socially outside of school as teachers? You know, like have meetings where everybody would have a covered dish, the faculty, did you do organized things? Kitty- Not very often. At Christmas there was always a party. Another thing I didn't mention was Billy Leighton was a real leader and a person that obviously that could tell you some of the later trends or some of the ideas. We had regular faculty meetings. Marge- Regular, once a week? Kitty- Yes, but I don't think they were that often, as I remember. Floris- I don't remember them being that often, but we had them at least once every four weeks. Kitty- I don't remember them being every week although I do know that you didn't get a beauty appointment or something on a particular day cause that would be a meeting if you needed it. Mrs. Criswell was not a person to over meet, which I think can happen cause you have so many things you are going to do. And the materials that you collect need to be organized. This has really been a fun thing to do Marge. Marge- Yes, well why don't we take a little break and when we come back, let's try and think of maybe some of the difficult aspects of teaching during that time, if you can think of any. Kitty- I think we're looking, I am, maybe Floris is too, maybe through rose colored glasses. Floris- We remember the good things. Marge- Memories are like that. We tend to forget that things that ... surely there were some things that were harder to do than others so we'll pick up on that. 17 Floris- I'll think about that. Break(showing pictures): Kitty- Jody Ellis, Jody doesn't sound right... Marge- Elkins. Kitty- Elkins, but Mrs. Criswell is still living. Here's a little Doxy Wooden, you run into his mother all the time. Marge- Uh -huh. Kitty- Look at the little picture on the corner thereof the little boy. There's one of those pictures, I think it's this next one, is that him? David Pfannstiel? Marge- Surely looks like him. Kitty- I had him of course for four years in high school, I had it all that time in then, he looks like Shirley there doesn't he? Marge- Yes, he does. Kitty- But we sang the Star Spangled Banner, we didn't mention that. We sang the Star Spangled Banner I think every morning in some years or we more like said it. We had that book, that D'aulaire book, and we wrote to them and boy David was good. I guess, probably my singing hurt his ears. Part Two: Marge- Floris, did you have any international students that you can recall? Floris- yes, I had some that I had to go to. Kitty- You haven't started this have you? Oh my land, i said everything off the record. Floris- I didn't know we had started this back. Kitty- Haven't said anything that was... Marge- No, he just started it when you started talking about international students. Kitty- Oh, I don't really know anything that I can't say off the record, really. I mean, you know, in this community I've said everything, somewhere. 18 Marge- Well, we said we talk about the difficult aspects of teaching. Did the facilities make for any problems in teaching? You mentioned having to leave the room in order to go to the bathroom. Are there any other kinds of difficulties that you remember? Kitty- No, that would be like completely outside. No, I think one of the things that's very good, I taught, i think, Almost every summer because I always felt like there were so many children that were just getting to the point. Now the parents paid for this and I assume that I got paid, I really don't remember that part of it. But the room was cross - ventilated. The children were not so used to air - conditioning as they are now. You could teach, probably, in a room like that. But we had fans and we had cross - ventilation that those rooms were ... that was one of the first ones to go. Marge- So the lack of air - conditioning did not... Floris- I don't remember there was a problem because very few people had air - conditioning. Kitty- We didn't get air - conditioning ourselves til after that. Marge- You didn't have a lot of restrictions on what you could do teaching. You had quite a bit of freedom in the classroom. Kitty- Uh -huh. Floris- Mrs. Criswell was a good principal. She let you know ... she left you alone. Marge- But you had enough supplies? Floris- Yes, well... Marge- Was that ever a problem? Kitty- we bought them ourselves a good bit, didn't we? Floris- If you didn't have enough you bought them. I had lovely mothers that came in, room mothers, that came in to help. Marge- Did you have bus service in those days? Kitty- We had to stay. We took turns keeping the bus children because the busses came late, according to after they took the children home they then had to take some 19 rural children home. That might have been considered a problem, that you had bus duty regularly. I do remember that I did use a lot, taught a lot of Spanish games and things... Floris- You just learn to keep them entertained.... Kitty- You know they kept, they played themselves. Floris- It was not that ... it just meant you had to stay a little bit longer but that was part of the job. There was no resentment as far as I know of having to stay. Marge- The cafeteria was operating. Did it have a hot lunch in 1955? Kitty- We, but I would like to address a problem that I think people don't, I didn't have this problem in Houston although there are different levels of reading and I had a lot of Hispanics in that one year in Houston. Here we had brothers and sisters or family of people of going to A &M and sometimes, I don't remember particularly as a problem, I remember it more as a one way to teach phonics to make phonics work by teaching them to someone who needed it, the class was getting it and the class would help them. I particularly remember this because, you remember Flip, Flip was a dog and Orientals cannot say I, they say Trip, and I bet every kid took that little Japanese woman who came to my class for about a whole year aside and taught her that "fl" was flip, and they learned so much themselves because we would create long lists for them to practice with her but she still said "trip." I think that she finally got to the point where she could say fly instead of fry but I'm not sure, but it did make them aware Floris- She'd say flied lice instead of fried rice. Kitty- Yes Marge- An adult mother came in and participated in the lessons with the children Kitty- Now, I don't remember when they stopped that, whether there got to be too many Egyptians or other people, and some teachers don't care for these extra people, then, and there's nothing wrong with having that point of view, but I've found it extremely 20 helpful to me so that I can remember that I had a number of international people and the young man in that picture just came for part of the day and went back to high school. But, for instance, how did he say St. Nicholas? Well, it sounded exactly like Santa Clause or something they could all see why New York children or New Amsterdam started to say Santa Claus, because he said St. Nicholas so funny. He was Dutch. Marge- So, in essence, you may have been the first ESL, English as a second language teacher at A &M Consolidated? Kitty- There were other teachers who really encouraged mothers or wives to come and particularly in the summer classes, that other picture is a summer class, there were, usually people like that and I don't remember what we charged them, but I do know we must have charged the children who came for extra reading, you know. Floris- I'm not sure. Kitty- But, that could be a problem, too because it would mean it was difficult to divide your group into say three reading groups, sometimes, because there were then some of these people that were very elementary. However, if they were adults, or people like that, you explained to them that your obligation was to these children and that if they learned something, fine. What about all the math that we did? Floris- Change the way to teach math, we had to learn it ourselves. Kitty- We had to learn that toward the end of our teaching, we had to learn the new math, I think that's when I was ready to go to high school, when the new math came in. Marge- Could you talk just a little bit about what the report card was like at that time? Floris- Well, it was simple, for one thing. Then you could write an essay about how the child was doing. I found it more difficult when I was overseas and 1 had about ten nationalities at least in my class. It made it harder to write little notes to them a lot of times. 21 Marge- Sure, I understand. Did you give letter grades, ABC, or was it Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory? Kitty- Satisfactory Marge- And what else, was it unsatisfactory? Kitty- Unsatisfactory, I suppose. I don't remember ever giving any U's. Nobody that was really trying, I think "Needs Improvement" was your other one, wasn't it? An "N" or and "I" or something like that. Floris- I think it was an "N ". Kitty - "N" for "Needs Improvement ". And, I mean, we all need improvement and if it's kind of hard, particularly right at the first to say someone is doing satisfactory when you really want them to go well beyond that so maybe we gave S -, I don't remember. Floris- I think we solved a lot of it then. I really don't remember them bad. But, I know that when I was teaching overseas, we had one month, one day a month that the parents came and you had to defend yourself against the grade that you gave their children. 1 didn't have any trouble except with one person. Marge- Did parents come up for conferences here at Consolidated? Kitty- It just was not scheduled like it was later. By the time my children, well, Barbara maybe by the time she came along, that was a regular thing. Maybe one day set aside or somehow they worked it out I have forgotten. We did not have that in the seven years I was teaching. Marge- Did you have any conference period, any time off during the day? Kitty- Now that's what we should address because we did not and you know, I believe people need that and I've often gone in people's room and said I'll talk to them, "I'll tell a story or I'll do a little Spanish lesson if you'd like so that you can put your feet up." We did not have any free time.lf someone helped and gave you a little time when you wasn't the focus, you know the whole thing. But, otherwise, I don't even know how we went to the bathroom. 22 Marge- So there was no planning period or conference time or anything? Kitty- That would have to be done after school and it was expected that you plan. Marge- And you did have lessons planned? Kitty- We had very definite plans. Well, we had a lesson plan because you needed, you know, you need to know what you're doing and where you're going. And we had those wonderful books that Steck published, the plan book, I mean. And you had to keep up with what you're doing. But when you think of it, and I do think of it because later when my students, high school students, went regularly for several years to teach Spanish in the Elementary, I did not want the teacher to leave the room unless she needed to go to the bathroom, in which I could sympathize with and some of the teachers did leave and some of those high school kids were as capable as an adult. They were just like a colleague in my own class. I can name quite a few. And when they went, the idea was, I felt, because I don't think still back there in the 60's, I started in high school in '62, '62 -'63. So '55 until '62 those seven years I was involved in elementary. We sat... Is this video going to be published, I'm not going to say anything libelous but I've said this to Mr. Reidel before that he looks down from his mighty little chamber down here, ivory tower, down to Mrs. Dulaney and I sitting on a bench and he says, "Is that all you have to do or something ?" Well, you supervise their playground, you did their PE., you did their whole day. There was not a space, is there now even? I mean I'm not sure that there is now. Marge- There is the conference that is required by law that you have 45 minutes during the school day. Kitty- During a day? Wow. Marge- During a day, yes. Kitty- I think I could be a much better teacher if I had had that because think about the times when after say Lincoln's birthday was finished. I simply didn't have time to organize my material, just shove it in the good storage space. 23 Marge- So that would have been a problem of the time, of teaching during that particular period, there was no time during the day to prepare or to rest or to have conference. It all had to be done after the school hours. Kitty- I would say that was a problem, because you also ate with them and maybe we took turns on who was out on the playground, but I don't remember that. I just remember. Floris- I can remember when I was there we had playground duty. Kitty- You took turns? And maybe that way you could be in your room getting something, but I don't remember that. Maybe I just wanted to be outside. Marge- Do you remember what happened in those days when the teacher became pregnant, was she allowed to teach? Kitty- I don't think there was much said. Of course, with Barbara, Barbara was born the first part of October, so I was I suppose pregnant at the end of that school year. I guess and when she was born, I don't remember it at all. But, I also had a scout troop. A lot of us did a lot of Sunday school work. That was just the way of life Floris- You just did things with the community to stay, you have to part of the community and do your part, whatever it was. Kitty- And we had a lot of help. Marge- Well, you've talked about some of the things that were problems to teachers in general of that era. What were some of the best parts of teaching at that time at Consolidated? Floris- I think they left you to do your thing. They didn't do criticism. They just left you to do your job. Marge- You didn't have the visitations, the evaluations that teachers have now? Floris- No Kitty- No, I think that's a positive thing. A teacher needs to be evaluated in some way. M Floris- to be evaluated and know whether you're keeping up and I think that's good, but I wouldn't want anybody in my room everyday. Kitty- The thing that by the time I was retired in '88. Here you are seven years at this I'm starting in '55 in the Consolidated system and I finish at '88. What are the biggest differences and okay, in '55, we were treated like a professional, everybody , you know, helped us and I don't say that I wasn't personally treated as a professional, after all, I mean I was an institution I guess in '88. But, I know that there were teachers that there was too much on their back that had never been on mine and Consolidated, when I finished, I think I'm right, we had something like five, at least four, principals in the high school. Well, you're doing the attendance, that has to be done according to the way that this person wants it , that these papers have to be done, this, that, and the other, and there was so much by the time I finished that was outside of what you needed to do to give those youngsters a comfortable feeling about school. I mean, what's our job, it was more than just teaching reading, it was to encourage them and so by their learning. But, by the end, I'd wonder sometimes when I'd look back is how I got as much done as I did in the high school because you didn't stay in your room in the five minutes between classes you're supposed to be watching the halls. So how do you then, come into your class friendly like, ready to go. Floris- After grabbing everybody out of the halls. Kitty- I just think that it is safe and maybe they do now have hall monitors, because you know, we used to have lunchroom duty in the high school and we also had duty in the grounds in high school. See, actually, we had some duties in the elementary, but it wasn't like it was in high school, because, actually, if you wanted it to be a little teaching, it could be, I mean it was teaching, telling the little boys to stay away from the little girls who had made little houses out of sticks or the outlines, they made that all the time. Those playgrounds were wonderful really and they were so self- contained, you know, Georgia Belle, not Georgia Belle Landis but Georgia Williamson and I, we shared 25 that one and Shirley Bailey and Christine shared that one and I don't know how it was in College Hill. But when did College Hill open? Marge- 1961 Kitty- Okay, so it's pretty past our time, '59. We were all here in a very, I say almost unique situation. Marge- So it's obvious you all have good memories of it. Well, let's move on since our time is getting short. Let's move into some special events. Can you remember some special times? You told a little bit about the picnic at the end but some of the things that we tend to remember, the highlights. Share with us some of those. Floris- One of the things that I will always remember, my children kept asking me, "How old are you, Mrs. Sheppard, how old are you ", so I said I'm 99 and let go at that. And one day I was writing on the board and this little boy said, "Mrs. Sheppard, my grandmother is visiting us and she's 77. You don't look near as old as she does" (all laugh) Kitty- I moved to H.S. in the fall of '62. Well, it was in the early'60s but we were all coming toward the space emphasis and Russia and so forth. I remember that because of bringing T.Ws into the 2nd grade classroom. I know I had changed my math program, although I used to have a children stand on this cupboard and then stand on the heater in the back of the room. It wasn't dangerous, I'm sure it wasn't, I'm right there. Then, they launched a flag onto the moon after they had done so many flashcards. So, we did a lot of flashcards, and arithmetic was very automatic and now they have calculators, I don't know how that works. How can they do things? That was special. A lot about the space, but that might have come a little later but we were moving in that direction. There was a lot of talk about space. Let's see what else was... Floris- Sputnik had happened in 1967, 1 believe 26 Kitty- The first Sputnik was launched in Oct. 1957. Sputnik was what began our thinking and after Sputnik, you thought a lot about Russia and I did launch the satellites and so forth before the American launch. But, we had T.V.'s brought in the room then. Some other special events. All the holidays were special. Floris- All the holidays were special. We did artwork and we told stories about it. Marge- When you mentioned Mary Owen. Kitty- She was a special Halloween ghost. Even after I had Sally, she came, her children moved on. Second grade is a perfect grade, let's face it. Marge- But, she came as a story teller. Kitty- She came as a story teller. But we has others, there was a story telling group here. Trudy Foolwhiler was a part of it. I remember one thing this woman did that I thought was so wonderful, and I had never seen it in a book, it's in a book, I've seen it in a book, but I've never had it so I could learn it. You fold the paper and then you pull it out to be the beanstalk, do you remember that? I don't know how to do it. Well, somebody came and they did that. Lib Coon played the piano, and some of those children did their dancing, whatever they learned in dancing school. They were very, very aware, these children much more maybe, no, I guess not, after all there's all these Friday football games. But they were aware of cheerleaders and those children wore the little maroon skirts and Nancy Palmer, the little Price girl, wanted to be cheerleaders. Those were special events, you know. Marge- Did you have a May pole Dance? Kitty- No, we never had a May pole, but it's funny that I didn't work one out because I came from May pole country. We had May poles every year and I guess all the years I went to school, including the University of Delaware. Marge- Did Santa Clause come? Kitty- Santa Clause did come but not regularly 27 Floris- There had to be somebody, some father or somebody, who was interested in doing it. Marge- I know for a while Red Caisson was Santa Clause. Kitty- Yes, I think that was a little later. Let's see, of course the assemblies. Oh, I can still see, can't you see, when Godfrey, little Mrs. Godfrey walking down because she didn't want the sun to get on her with a little umbrella Marge- Jeanette Godfrey, she was teaching at that time. Kitty- She was teaching the fourth grade. Well, we went regularly to assemblies, I mean fairly regularly to assemblies and the children had very good behavior and that's another thing that when I go some places and I see that children put their feet on the chairs and I see them do a lot of things. Floris- I don't remember telling them Kitty- I don't remember telling them particularly but you'd be so proud of how they behaved. Don't you remember how we were? Marge- Where did you go for the assemblies? Kitty- In the round building, we called it the Tarantula, we told about why it was considered a fine building. We didn't mention some of the things that were wrong with it, because it was such a nice place to go. Marge- That was built in 1950, 1 believe, wasn't it? Kitty- All I know is that when I came in '55 it was very new. I don't think they had students who had gone through it and all and when we came in here in the spring '55, we went through, we toured it, so to speak. And, or children of course, our own children went on there through that building. Marge- Did you ever have assemblies outside? Kitty- I don't remember any, but oh one thing we always had, and that's a funny one I think, is we always had, as long as I can remember, a parade at Halloween and everybody brought their costume and put it on after lunch and I remember saying as I 28 came out of the cafeteria, "What could be worse than a rainy Halloween ?" because they're all, excited. One of mine had the Purple People Eater costume his mother had made, that was Jim Isbell, you remember Edith? And she made this perfect costume. Well, what do you think was worse? There again, you see we did leave them by themselves occasionally but there were mothers in the room then, for a day like that where if I was kind of late getting back from the cafeteria. And when I walked in, ( Will was looking this little boy up because he's in that picture), he had thrown up all the way from the back of the room to the front. So those are some of the disadvantages because Ernest was a wonderful person, but he couldn't get to all these and then.... Marge- Ernest was the custodian? Kitty- Ernest was a wonderful custodian, and then also one of the Merchant women, Marie. Maybe the reason 1 remember the children as being so perfect is then when I went to high school, the children weren't so perfect. I mean they didn't hug me everyday. I said you have to get close to a teacher in Spanish because people do, and I can remember when people who knew me in church gave me a big hug and then the rest of the line hugged me they figured they couldn't get out of that classroom without it. But, they did it of their own accord in the second grade. Here's a problem we had. It's not a big problem, and they must have it still. Texas, here, it's very cold in the morning, so they wear their jackets and everything and you have that nice place where you have to hang them up. Well, by the end of the week, some of them had five jackets there if you forgot to tell them to bring them home. Well the only one that really could do that was Bill Gillam, but we did have to remember. And you tried to have a routine, take your jacket home. But it would be so warm. They just wouldn't want to do it. I remember that. And also you tried to remind them, your mother is going to say, "What did you learn today in school ?" So, I'm sure anybody listening to me would say, "Well that's what they told me in the education class." Last thing you tell them is something positive. 29 So, what did you learn in school today is, you know, what they learned. Something good. Marge- One thing we didn't touch on. Do you remember how much you were paid? And you know what kind of a contract. Did you get your paycheck handed to you or did it come in the mail or did you have to go stand in line for it somewhere? You know, let's talk about that kind of, the business end of teaching. Kitty- Do you remember that? Floris- I don't remember how I got that paycheck. Kitty- I don't remember because I guess Will takes care of everything. But I do remember that my first paycheck in teaching school was $1100 for the year and I got the second highest paycheck. The highest paycheck in 1944, for high school this was, not in the city but in the state of Delaware there was $1500. But she had to sign, Rosalie had to sign a contract that she would not get married. Well I had to, I wanted to marry Will in '44 or else. And so, that $1100 1 remember. But I do not remember and now we could have looked this up because I'm sure I had some record of this. I don't remember. It must have come in the mail or went to the bank. Marge- You were not forced to stand in line at the county courthouse. I know that happened in some places. Floris- No, no. I don't remember but we didn't have to go get them. I think we just went in and signed...... Kitty- Or maybe they were in our mailboxes. I don't remember. Isn't that funny? Floris- I can't remember whether we went in and signed the book that we got them or, I don't remember at all. Marge- How about when you were hired? Do you remember anything unusual about your interview? Was it always with, was it with Mr......... Kitty and Floris- Les Richardson. Marge- Les Richardson. Both of you? 30 Floris- Well, no I would..... Marge- Taylor Riedel? Floris- Taylor Riedel. Marge- Did anybody else interview other, other than the superintendent? Kitty- Well now when I was in Delaware, and I think this is a little bit appropriate because it shows a difference because this had been a rural area, some of it. I had to go around with the principal of the high school to meet every member of the school board and they lived pretty far apart. And I don't remember if we missed anybody because it seemed like we went everywhere. But here, after Les Richardson's, interview, I then remember that, Mrs. Creswell showed me the room that I would have. And then, of course, Christine Dulaney came to the house, my house, to bring me a copy of all the books and there was a rather standard way, do you remember? Or maybe I learned this in Houston, I thought it was here, where you had a notebook for each basal reader and you made out your own questions and the words you were going to emphasize, even though they had a help section. Floris- That makes sense, I'm with that kind of text. There's a space for you to add the words that your children were having difficulty to. They had already put out the words that you, that they were emphasizing. But children differed in every locality and so the harder words were not listed on there, that they were the ones to stress so you had to do your own. Kitty- And we did, I remember having those books and how I hated to throw them away. I don't think that other people could really use them. I mean, I'm sure I offered.... Floris- You could look through them and get ideas from them, but it's hard to take somebody else's straight on because you don't have the thoughts. But it helps if you know what they were emphasizing. Kitty- And the children had special interest in them. So, I don't remember about being paid. But we were paid. 31 Marge- That's good. Do you remember whether or not the school board members ever visited your classroom? Kitty- No, they never did. And I was always a little surprised by that because from time to time, I would hear maybe that some teacher (I can think of a specific teacher, and this was somebody that was there before I came) that they had maybe disapproved of. Well, all right, where did they get their ideas? Is this something that some child took home? I mean, if they don't visit you. I think that's an improvement that they've made even though you might put on, particularly like I did when I was teaching Spanish, a dog and pony show, in a way. Marge- Were you ever asked to go to the school board meetings? Kitty- Some teachers did and sometimes they reported at the meetings that we had. But it wasn't regular and that wasn't something that I'd been required to go to in Delaware and in Houston also, a kind of requirement, but it was a little difficult, was to attend the meetings of the PTO or whatever. We didn't have anything like that at the time. We did have the College Station Education Association and we were expected to be a part of that, but I don't even remember when that became... Marge- But there was no, you say there was no parent- teacher organization, no PTA? Kitty- No, the College Station Education Association wasn't made up of parents either was it? I can't remember. Floris- It seems to me like there was a PTA, but I don't remember. When I was overseas, we had a day a month of each grading period. And the children did not come and you scheduled the parents, and the parents had specific times that you set with them and visited with them and you found out if the children had problems at home and they found out if they were having problems in school. Kitty- That came in the 60's here didn't it? Certainly it came after I left. Marge- Well how about... Floris- But that was overseas. 32 Marge- I know we've had Open House for many years. Do you remember having Open House? Kitty- Yes. We always had Open House. Marge- And what kinds of things did you do for Open House? Kitty- Well we just had our rooms ready and always we had everybody's work where they sat. I think we made the point but maybe I remembering it from some other time that students, the parents didn't bring problems and you didn't talk about problems on that night because the others were around but that if they wanted to see you for something you know you could make arrangements. I remember that it was the Open House was an upbeat fun time. Floris- Fun time and to show the best work the children had on the desk and things on the bulletin board and so on. Marge- Had they ever try to did you try to present a program at that night. Kitty- Yes a little bit. This was a self contained classroom. Kitty - (cont.) So, I can remember that we did a little - sometimes we had the door open between the two rooms, I remember, and did a little singing. Floris- Most of the parents on parent night had to make two rooms so that, you had it very informal. Marge- Were there any times when you had programs for the parents? Kitty- Yes, but I think it was just on our own, like maybe on Mother's Day . Floris- Thanksgiving or maybe if we invited the parents to come. Kitty- The parents weren't working to the extent that they are now. Floris- That's true. Kitty- So, parents could come, and did. 33 Marge- One other thing I want to go back to, you mentioned, uh, teachers being involved during the summer time. Can you tell a little bit about your experiences at Lincoln Center? Kitty- Well what happened there was - Marge- And it was, I think that it's a little bit out of our time frame, but it's important. Kitty- I think it's important from the standpoint that we have not mentioned integration here, and all of this is pre- integration. Integration in College Station in some ways was done rather smoothly because of the fire at the Lincoln school, and of course now we hear other things about that. There was no way that we could be segregated forever by neighborhoods because of the various ways our children had to go to school and the children from the Lincoln school had to go from that, any area here, and go right past the school. So, it wasn't sensible to have them separated. But, at any rate, for three summers I went up to the school because. Marge- To Lincoln School? Kitty- To Lincoln School, and the reason I didn't go after that was by that time we had been integrated pretty much. That was maybe that they were starting a grade at a time, but then that was interrupted, but the reason I'm glad that you bring this up it was a very positive experience. And the reason it came was in those days because of something we don't have now, , is children came to sell blackberries. And I remember that these three boys came and I said, "I will buy the blackberries if you will come in and read some books. Marge- What age? Kitty- They were like first and second grade. And it -you might say it was because, it would have been , say in '62 it would have been the summer of '62, probably or '61 because, you see, I moved to High school in '62. My first year of High school was 62- 63. So, I was really eager to keep up with grade school. People everywhere helped me. I mean churches or anything with boxes of crayons and things. You went up there 34 with me Marge, you went up there with me more than once. Peggy Schaefer, and other too. We had lots of books and these children came regularly during the summer. In the spring a few had come to our house after school. And it was wonderful for me. I think it was my salvation. Because High school I loved, but I had to work awfully hard in High school, because I hadn't taught Spanish at that level in say 20 years. And to go into level 2- as a gringa! I mean my accent. I had to work so hard on that sound because it hadn't been emphasized before but I think that was good, those 3 years, because then when those youngsters came in High school it was a nice relationship. Some of them came to see me regularly. Floris- The Lincoln School was located on Holleman where the Lincoln Center Park or the, uh, recreation building is now. Kitty- Yes, and they had a big auditorium there that we could meet in and serve them refreshments and mainly urge them to take out books and bring back books and read while we were there. I look back on it as a very positive thing. But, the third year was not as satisfactory as the first two years had been. Floris- Well, I remember a couple of summers when I brought the rhythm instruments and we'd play the rhythm band which was mainly you know, the rhythm family, but we talked in songs too. Kitty- Sure. Floris- The kinds of songs that you learned in elementary in those days which was rather different than what they teach now. Kitty- And the big reason we went to Lincoln School was, is all that spring they were coming to the house and so I just called Mr. Riedel and said, "well, couldn't I go over there ? ". And we would meet once a week I guess is what we did. But when they were coming to the house they were coming pretty often. Floris- In the summertime, I think you did it several mornings a week. Kitty- Yes, that's right. Kai Marge- Well, we're almost at the end of our time. Can you think of anything else you like to add? I know when you get home you'll think of lots of things but you can add those into the written transcript that you will be seeing. Kitty- Yes, well I can only say that I'm so disappointed that Elizabeth and Christine weren't here. Elizabeth you remember as a first grade teacher, but she was Fred's, our Fred's, third grade teacher. And Christine was his second grade teacher. I think we should bring up something that we might have said when we are talking about isolating children. I remember that Elizabeth came back from a meeting, well she was first grade then, she came back with this idea that was in vogue. I guess then that you could make a carrel for them so they could read without being distracted and of course I'm sure it works out so that, without distracting somebody else. I think we all had a little carrel in our room where they could go and study or read, but it was usually a positive thing, like your daddy goes to the office, and nobody bothers him. Somebody answers his phone so that we'll take care of everything you need and you be in this carrel, "this office ". Another thing that Elizabeth came back with one time was that the, rooms needed to be less distracting. And all of our rooms, I think, where we had been taught that what, something like 66% of the time a student is looking around. So you want them to be focusing on something that is educational well them we came back with the idea that all this calls to the child and calls them away from the task at hand I remember that. So maybe eventually that went into the special education channel cause we sure had charts didn't we? Floris- We sure had charts, and we looked at the children's work. Kitty- And we put up the work a lot, we had lots of places to put it up. Floris- Yes, we did. Kitty- Those three doors, you could put them on. Just think of that I could use this room and they could all stand there and paint. This would be a nice room. Doesn't have enough blackboard space, though. M Marge- Well, we thank you so much for coming, and it's been a delight to listen to your memories. We're glad that you have such a positive attitude and memories of A &M Consolidated. Course we, our children both went through Consolidated, and we have very special feelings toward it. Think the children got a wonderful education. Kitty- But every once in a while somebody tells me how terrible they were in high school particularly or even in elementary school and I don't remember them being that distracting. I mean they would (that's a high point in their life if they could) maybe get me a little rattled or, in high school. They don't have that, that kind of thing in second grade really. In second they sort worship you. They look up to you. You have a responsibility not to spoil them. Kitty- Yeah, and really TV wasn't so much, you know, we didn't bring that in, but TV wasn't... Marge- Excuse me John, but she just, she just thought of another topic. Kitty- Another factor. Marge- So we'll turn this on for another minute. Kitty- Well I don't know if that needs to be in there, but that's true, it was... Floris- The children didn't have that kind... Kitty- They didn't have as much, if they had Howdy Dowdy or even Mr. Peepers or something like that, there wasn't all this other thing that has come in from TV. Gradually that's changed our Sunday School teaching and our, I mean these are all affected by it now. Floris- Less competition... Kitty- That's right. Floris- ...for attention. Kitty- And maybe an attention span situation comes from it because it used to be in Sunday School you could sing a few songs and sit down and tell a whole story. I don't think you can anymore I maybe exaggerating but I've been told that it isn't the same. 37 Floris- Well, today on the TV we have 25 channels. if they don't like what's on the channel then you ... You have the children that, can't sit and watch a program all the way through. They've got to switch it. Kitty- See what's on the other one. Floris- See what's on the other one. Kitty- I think that would be a factor. We can see now several things that teachers nowadays have a harder job than we did. Instead of parent involvement the way we had, maybe some of theirs is parent interference, maybe. You know that's a word choice in one of those programs. And another thing, we didn't have that competition with TV. Floris- The TV interferes with homework for one thing, that's... Marge- And videos, kids would rather watch the videos than read a book. Kitty- But I understand it works the other way too. That you see say Charlotte's Web then you read the book. And some of the things, it's a positive thing and that they have a bigger vocabulary, because a vocabulary is brought in way beyond their parents. I had a very hard time teaching one student ah, that the "helping" word went with seen and done and I mean he never would accept that really, because everybody he knew said, " I done it ", and "I seen it" and he checked that out at home. Floris- That's true, that's true. Kitty- And they said it, so maybe now with the TV in general, you hear only good language on TV. Well I thank you for adding that to the thing because I think that the TV should be brought up. Floris- I did want to mention before I said... End Tape. 1 I M