HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 09•
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Interviewer:
Interviewees:
James
Will W
Pat M
Clyde
I'm James Burk.
am interviewing
interview is taking
1300 George Bu
the Historic Prese
the city of College
And now I would
identifiable on the
name and some
community So
WW: I'm Will Worley.
and stayed until 1
finish. In 1947 I
JB:
MILITARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
1
oday is February 19, 1997. I am interviewing for the first time. I
Clyde Schaffer, Mr. Pat Mann, and Mr. Will Worley. This
lace in room 101 of the College Station Conference Center at
Drive in College Station, Texas. This interview is sponsored by
ation committee. The Conference Center Advisory Committee of
Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project.
• . e each person to introduce themselves, so that their voice will be
ape recorder. And we will start with you Will. You will give your
g about yourself. Perhaps, how long you have been in the
g like that.
Class of `43 of A &M. A native of Dallas. I came to A &M in 1939
42 when I went into the service, then came back after the war to
'ed while in the service. Had one child and my second one born
g my degree at A &M . Went to work for nine years in industry in
uge, back here. And then at the age of 35, I taught Electrical
until I retired 32 years later. And we have lived here ever since.
They all live in Austin. Three of them went to the University of
ing them and all our grandchildren, son -in -laws and daughter -in-
egrees from the U. of Texas (Laughter). I have one degree from
her Masters' degree and one of our daughters has her Masters'.
ggieland.
Pat....
I was born in Arlington, Texas or near there. You remember when
through there, cut over the of farm there, and, I went to school in
ed NTAC which you will recall was a part of A &M at the time.
ials stand for?
'cultural College is what it stood for. It is now a part of the U. of
was drafted into the military in March of `43. Went to Ft. Knox,
e Aviation Cadet Program. Was a bombardier overseas. After the
here and, transferred to A &M to finish a degree in Wildlife
when I was
Houston, Baton
Engineering at A
Had four children.
Texas. And coun
laws, we have 19
here. My wife ha
And that is all for
JB: Great, thank you
PM: I am Pat Mann
the toll road goe
Arlington. Atten
JB: What do those •
PM: North Texas A
Texas system.
transferred to
war, I came ba
Science.
JB: Clyde?
CS: Yes, sir, I am C de Schaffer from Anderson, Texas. I was born in Anderson,
moved to College Station in 1925, and spent my school time here at A &M
Consolidated all 11 years. And, after that I went into the service March of `43.
And, left here and went to Fort Lewis, WA. I was in the 44th Infantry Division and
I spent about n$ne months up there. Then we came back down to Louisiana on
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maneuvers for ee months. And from there we went to Salina, KS. for some more
training. From ere we went to Camp Gilmer, NJ. And that's when we left to go
overseas. And it ook us twelve days to go over. And I spent the rest of my time in
the service over i ere until the war was over. We landed in Cherbourg, France.
And I went thro gh France, Germany, Austria, up the Swiss border, and also up the
Italian Border. nd after I made my time over there, came back home and married
my wife who lived in Anderson. And from there I, did not get a whole lot of
education. I got a couple of years at Blinn College. And I went to work for the
Highway Depart ent, Engineering Department, and I stayed with them about twelve
years. And then . ' er that I went in with the US Postal Service and I spent 29 years
with them. And i ow I am retired.
JB: Great. Thank yo very much. Now we have to do the legal business. With the
interview agreem ts. I am supposed to read an interview agreement with you, so
here we go. This is the City of College Station, Texas. Memory Lanes Oral History
Project its intervi w agreement. The purpose of the Historical Preservation
Committee is to ather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape
recorded intervie . I suppose that's sound tape and video tape. Tape recordings and
transcripts result' g from such interviews become part of the archives of the City of
College Station stone Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory
committee, to be sed for whatever purpose may be determined. I've read the above
and voluntarily o er my, portions of the interviews with Will Worley, Pat Mann, and
Clyde Schaffer. i i view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby sign
rights, title, and terests pertaining to it to the City of College Station Historic
Preservation Co si si'ttee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee. I have
signed this with i s y own name of course. That takes care of my legal obligation.
(Laughter) Here are forms for you to fill out to take care of your legal obligations.
And I will take a est while you do that. (Time passes as they fill out forms)
Well, questions at we have to raise this morning have to do with military in this
area, roughly the first half of this century. I'd like to begin asking about the Spanish
American War, ght at the beginning, actually the end of the 19th century, And I'm
curious to know s ether any of you had family members who were in the Spanish
American War.
ALL No.
JB: What about
CS: My Dadmadei
have to go any
JB: Was he drafte s ?
CS: He wasn't.
JB: He was on
CS: Yes, yes. Th
PM: I had some unc
service. (Lau
JB: And you, W
2
.W.I? Did any of you have family members who fought in W.W.I?
to Navasota and that's as far as he got the war ended. So, he didn't
er.
e was on his way to go to be drafted.
way to be drafted?
is as far as he got.
e that served the end of W.W.I. I can't give you the details of the
ter)
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WW: My father -in -law
W.W.I. The fath
battles over there
JB: Lucky man. We
Let's turn to the
actually, where y
2nd World War.
WW: I was inGuionH
out and that sort
were most vulner
JB: Do you remembe
WW: No, I sure don't
JB: Pat, what about y
PM: As I said, I was
called them junio
JB: Did you have
PM: No.
JB: This was just ecial?
PM: I think it was a I . ther's Day Parade. It doesn't coincide with Mother's Day, but if I
remember right i at's what it was for. On December 7, we heard about it there
during the parade
JB: During the par= de. How did that Happen?
PM: Oh, they had a P. . system there, and it spread like wildfire as one heard it the rest
of us heard it and it went from there.
JB: I see. And yo Clyde?
CS: Well, all I recall . ' out it, I was going to school here at A &M Consolidated, and, it
kind of surprised all of us. I think quite a bit when it was announced. And, next
thing I thought a out was when was my time? Because I'd been hearing about the
war, you know, . oing in the service. And, will I be next to go in the service?
(Laughter) They were waiting for me to get out of school. And, it was about outside
of going into the service.
JB: Well, let's talk ab gut Pearl Harbor Day a little bit more. After you first heard about it,
Clyde. Did they.. Did classes close down? Or did you continue with classes for the
rest of the day?
CS: No, as far as I recall we continued with classes.
JB: Went back to Business as usual.
CS: Correct. W back to business as usual.
JB: That Geomet
CS: We had some pr
pupils. They sai
JB: When you go
CS: Well, really I do
for 50 years.
young men ha
3
as in W.W.I. And also a couple of my wife's uncles were in
r -in -law was in a Mortar Battalion. He was in several of the
`Course he came back.
lets.... We don't have many details about these earlier wars.
nd World War. I wonder. I'd like to hear from each of you,
u were when you first heard about the entry of the US into the
Where were you on Pearl Harbor?
on Sunday watching a movie. When we came out, the news was
f thing `Course this was particular with the seniors, because they
ble to be going into the service.
what movie you were watching?
at's about all I can remember about the beginning.
u?
olled at Texas, NTAC. They had a Cadet Corps there. They
Aggies. And, we were having a parade on that Sunday. And, we,
parade every Sunday?
is tough.
stem teachers. They didn't take too much back talk from their
, "Let's go ", and you went.
home what was the reaction of your family9
't remember a whole lot, but my dad he worked here for the college
d, he was kind of upset a little bit, because, being a new war and the
g to go, you know.
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JB: Like you.
CS: Like me in partic ar So, that was about it. I never recalled him saying too much
about it.
JB: Now, Pat, you we en't at home. So did you have some contact with your family on
that day or what?
PM: On that day, well ' er the parade, yes, but there's nothing in particular I remember.
School session went right on next week.
JB: Was anybody surprised, do you think by this?
PM: Oh I think we were all somewhat surprised.
JB: But you just w nt about business as usual.
PM: Business as usual. I spent two more semesters there before I was old enough to be
drafted. I was ju 16 at that time.
JB: Didn't waste . y time.
PM: Went from the e.
JB: What about yo Will? How'd your family respond to this
WW: Well, I can't r -member, now. I do know that afternoon we were in DOPM 1
which was wh re all Electrical Engineers and Signal Corps lived, so we had, one of
my classmates, we had a kind of a internal radio system in there, so he got on the
radio and start d talking as if he was a Japanese, and saying what was going
happen. And . 11 this sort of thing And of course, I was a junior, but the seniors
they were ve vulnerable because they went on into the service the following
May. They u shed their contract in ROTC, and even though they didn't graduate,
well, they gav them a commission, and put them on active duty. Being a junior, I
had a contract but we had not gone to summer camp. So, we would not get a
commission wi en we graduated. And they speeded up the program, and that
following si ss er we went to school full time. So we did not go to camp. So we
did not fill all 1 f the requirements. So, as a result, they sent us on OCS before
we'd get our . ommission. Well, a couple of us said, `What the heck. I'm not
going to go 0 S, so the two of them volunteered for direct commissions in the
Navy. The fo owing classes, sophomore and freshman, were pretty vulnerable,
and they reall didn't, they get advance ROTC contracts. But the class of `44 did
not get a ch . s e to finish school. And they went on to OCS and got their
commission. : ut the next class, which would be the class of `45, they, in order to
stay in schoo they would have to enlist in the Enlisted Reserve Corps. And then
they left them in school until they needed them. But, what I have here, I think, are
the orders for 52 of them, March 17, 1943, and I'll give this to you when I get
through. I w s t to give you this copy. Each enlisted reservist listed the enlisted
reservist RO C student's name below, then at A &M College of Texas, will report
at their own expense to the commanding officer, Camp Beauregard, Louisiana,
March 25, 1943, for active duty. So here's 52 of them all were taken in together.
This is true all over campus. The different branches, the infantry, and so forth,
were all taker in about that time. And of these 52, when they came back for their
50th class reunion, which would be the class of `45. At Christmas time of 1995, I
wrote everyo a that I could find and asked them to come back. The 50th class
reunion was 4pri121. So of these 52 I got 27 of them to come back plus their
4
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JB
WW
JB
PM
JB
PM
JB
PM
JB
CS
JB
CS
JB
CS
JB
WW
JB
WW
JB
WW
PM
wives. We had
never come ba
or 8 of them w
well, and none
said, "I'm goin
pilots of one
years come bac
Hilton Hotel it
Roberto Zunig
So you org •
Yeah.
That's good.
beginning of th
was declared?
The family me
he went into
immediately, b
service, one br
Were they all •
No, it was sca
Engineering, (
No, Navy?
No Navy.
Clyde, what a
No. I had one
brother and o
went over to J
years over the
That was in th
That was in th
what they wer
business over
was going ok
thought he tol
We still have t
Yes we sure
And Will, yo
Well, I had o
of which was
Now, tell us
That was the
torpedoed an
That's good.
By the Japanese.
Flew the B -25's off of it.
5
about 50 of them in our home at that time. Some of them had
to school, they had gone off somewhere else. And of the 27, 7
re dead by that time. They all went into the Signal Corps. pretty
f them were killed in the service. However, of 52 about 6 of them
to get in the Army Air Corps." Which they did. And became
g or another such as that. So it's interesting to be able to after 50
like this and also when you come back in a big group over in the
hard to get to see those persons whom you knew best. Got
who lives in Mexico City. He came with his wife.
d your own reunion.
et's think again about your family at the beginning of, at the
war. Who in the family, if any, joined immediately once the war
'd anybody?
ers? Yes, I had a brother in school here. Class of `42. I believe
Air Force Aviation Cadet Program. The others did not join
t we had 8 children in the family. All five of the boys were in the
ch or the other.
the Army?
ered out from Merchant Marine to Aberdeen Proving Ground
aughter) Air Force two of us, and, did I miss anybody?
y and Air Force.
out your family?
brother. He was younger. I was oldest in the family. I had one
sister. And so he went later on. He finished A &M, and then he
pan after the war was over. And spent some time; a couple of
e.
service?
service. In the army, he went over there with , I don't know just
doing, but they were kind of, in other words taking care of
ere as war was over. Looking around and making sure everything
for us, they were concerned. Yes, the States were concerned. I
me he wound up in the MP's while he was over there.
oops there.
o.
family.
y two sisters. A number of cousins, male, were in the service, one
n the Hornet, when Dolittle flew off on his raid to Tokyo.
o don't know, what was the Hornet?
ircraft carrier that they flew off of to bomb Tokyo and later it was
sunk. He was on board then, but of course, he did survive that.
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JB
CS
6
WW It was the B -25 s that flew off of the Hornet. That's the main one I had of all my
cousins that we e in the service.
JB Well, if you ha s to think what was the effect of the service on the other family
members who j , ined, we'll talk about their experiences in a moment. But if you
think about th- i experiences. Did it affect their life? What did they go on to do
after the servic ?
PM Well, I think m s st of `em, I know the rest of the family thought little brother,
which was me, ouldn't be old enough to be in the service. But as it ended up, I
was the only o i e who was in combat. It worked out that way.
JB They treated y i u with new found respect after that.
PM But most of th m had a sense of responsibility. If it was my turn to go, I'll go.
JB Let's talk abou life during the war a little bit. I am curious, now to think how you
got your info I I . tion about the war. Whether you were here or in the service,
telegrams, left s, news reels, how did you stay in touch with what was going on.
CS Personally, my . elf, since I went in and got in the infantry, I only came home one
time while I w. s in the service and that was when I left Fort Lewis, Washington.
Just before I le' , we got two weeks vacation to come home.
JB Was that at yo own expense? (Laughter)
CS No, not all tog- l er, but partially, yes. And I came back home and, boy, I had a
real good vaca ion while I was home. Because during the war, people were
raising practic everything they could to help benefit the war. And dad got the
bright idea tha the government needed a lot of peanuts to make oil for the Navy to
use on the shi. s. So, he decided to get into the business while he was working at
A &M. He ha about 30 acres of peanuts when I came home. It wasn't done by
tractor, it was s one by mules and sweep plows. It was just fortunate that he had
plowed them :I up, but you had to go in there and turn `em upside down so they
would dry. W - 11, that was my job, so I spent two weeks turning peanuts upside
down.
JB Glad to go ba ' k to the army?
CS I was glad to .. et back and I never did ask for another furlow.
JB But while you were in, how did you stay in touch with the family, did you get
letters?
CS Mail was the my way.
JB No telephone
CS No telephone.
JB No E -mail?
CS No E -mail. • nothing like that, the only thing we got was a letter occasionally
and not a wh Ile lot of those.
Were your leters censored?
Oh, yes. Not so much going over, but occasionally they were. But coming back,
every letter wEI sent back was pretty well censored, because my parents said they
were always pen.
JB But, the lee s you got weren't censored?
CS Very few. y one or two were censored. I guess they just spot checked it every
now and then and made sure what was going on, but packages, I don't know how
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they done those_ I don't know whether they were opened or not, but every now
and then you'd get a package.
JB A box of peanuts?
CS Yes, peanuts. 1 got over there and everything was going pretty hot and heavy and
it was cold at at time. That was the worst winter they had in 25 years.
JB What year was i ?
CS 1944. That wa coldest they had in 25 years and it would be. Snow on the ground
was very deep erywhere you walked. So I tried to stay as warm as I could but it
was hard to do My fiancee I wrote here a letter and told her it was getting pretty
cold over here, I need something to warm-up with. Well at that time occasionally
I would take a 'ttle drink of that tonic they have around, so she sent me a package
and low and b :l i old I got that package and it was an oxydol box. What in the
world is she s- I ding me a box of oxydol I haven't got time to take a bath anyway.
Clean clothes i didn't matter, but I couldn't figure out, so I ripped it open and I
looked in sure - ough it was all oxydol. Man this is a new one to me. Well, I will
just give this u away. We was in a village there and they didn't know what it
was and I sho ed them how to use it, but before I did let me scratch a little of that
stuff I found . omething caught hold of it, she had put a pint of good whiskey in
there. I kept at bugger to myself I didn't tell nobody, every time I got good and
cold, I'd take . little drink of that.
JB: Willing to sh. - cookies, but not the whiskey.
CS: Cookies, not e whiskey I had a dear friend, who was my #1 man under me lived
in Wisconsin i s mother would send him the cookies, cause he didn't drink, smoke,
curse, nothing but fight. She would always send homemade cookies over there, I
ate all his coo es as much as I could, and I shared some of mine with him.
JB: I have to ask i is a personal question. You are free not to answer it might be
incriminating. Did you marry this woman?
CS: Yes I did. Ye we have been married 52 years now.
WW: I was married i the service too. We got married 52 years ago last October 1.
We met at the University of Delaware. After I graduated from OCS and she
graduated, we got married.
JB: So you were si , rried before you got into the service?
WW: No, no. I ma i ed her in the service. Being from Texas and she from Delaware,
she was a littl; leery of Texans, our reputation wasn't that best back then.
JB: How did you 11 stay in touch?
WW: I did not go o erseas I was stationed in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. Then down
in Virginia. s d then in Arlington, Virginia I was in the Army Security Agency a
cryptographic officer, so she started teaching school, but pretty soon got pregnant,
so she wound up living with me in Arlington, until I got discharged we had one
child.
JB: It was easier to stay in touch with her. What about the rest of your family?
WW: Well, they Lived in Texas of course, and you know you had free if you wrote FREE
in the upper r_ght hand corner. If you wrote air -mail you would write two
FREE' s, but l don't think it would make any difference. Actually the letters came
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JB:
WW:
JB:
Pat
JB:
Pat:
JB:
Pat:
JB:
Pat:
JB:
Pat:
JB:
.JB:
Pat:
Clyde:
Pat:
CS:
Jim:
CS:
Jim:
CS:
Jim:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
fast. I was stat
Really it was a
And were your
Oh, not in the
What about yo
E -mail or B-
in the states tr
censor a few.
You helped c
Interesting, rea
What kinds of
We were supp
might have
Letters you rec
I don't know,
You were a bo
letters have tro
Yes, it did. W
Negros. Twen
replacement.
Philippines on
about 34 days
You weren't g
I am curious.
news reels or
war itself?
Very little Ne
Very little, I n
We were more
know different
Mostly just
paraphernalia.
Oh good.
This here is tr
done. Just am
This is you?
Yes, anyway,
So you had ph
One of the gu
would get a double roll of film. This here is overseas in Germany
How did you get hold of film overseas in Germany
Well, we took a Kodak plant. They had a big plant in Germany. We just so
happened to find plenty of cameras. Everybody got a chance to get all the film
they could finc We just kept what we wanted.
Well good, I guess that's the way we paid for it.
ned up in Massachusetts. You could get a letter in 24 hours.
zing that the mail service was so good.
etters censored?
ates not at all.
Pat?
? E -mail I believe it was in those days. Just regular mail all that
g, and overseas E -mail. And our letters were censored. I help
sor a few? What was that like?
some interesting letters.
ormation did you "black out ", if you did?
sed to block out anything about the missions we were on and they
ary parts. The rest of it regular information.
ived were they censored?
doubt it.
bardier you say, so you probably were moving around a bit. Did
ble catching up with you? Were you able to get them?
went over in July `44. We flew our first mission off of Los
-five missions usually you got to go home, if you had a
en we were on our 24th mission, we were shot down in the
egros island. We went from Los Negros to Negros, and we spent
ere as evadees. A lot of our mail was a little late getting there.
tting your letters in 24 hours
o what extent while you were in the military, you were watching
ening to radio programs. How did you get your news about the
s.
er heard the news.
concerned with our training and surviving such as that, we didn't
gs that were going on here in America. I have all kinds of
8
g in Louisiana. This here in Washington, that was about all we
ng ourselves talking
ith the cigar? Doing your best Winston Churchill.
ese are all boys I was in the service with.
tographs? Somebody had a camera?
s, one of my buddies had a camera. Every time he took pictures he
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CS: I took about 3
because the a
develop them,
there was a pri
buildings and
about 400 peo
Were they,
No, no. They
different count
I see.
They just pick =d them up here and there, I don't know whether they considered
them spies or hat, some of them might of been, you know, but, they picked them
up everywhere
There they we e.
There they we e and they were just poor as a snake too, I tell you, I felt song for
them.
They were ha
Oh, gosh, the
we had K rati
getting the C r
The prisoners
death to get
eat them bisc
I don't know
have seen it...
Oh, that's fas
and the Agric
And I got the
book with the
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
CS:
JB:
9
0 pictures, I guess, over there and I only got very few back
y developed the film, I sent them in, being a smart boy, I let them
ut they never sent them back. It was more important to them,
on war camp, right there, I was a little too far away to get to the
that were back in here, but we, came across that and, there was
le in there. The people could barely move.
may?
ere, oh, I don't know what country, Yugoslavia, France, and all
es were in there.
y to see you?
were. They were not feed very well, when we first got over seas
n when we first got over there, in a box, and then we started
tions, but we always had a few on hand in case we'd need them.
ed them, we gave them quite a few, and they was just tickled to
se of K rations, they wasn't worth nothing, but you could hardly
is in there. But they loved them, they really did. They liked them.
hether this is interesting to anybody, but here is a book, you might
Men and Women of Brazos County in the Service WWII.
ating. "Men and Women in the Armed forces from Brazos County
tural and Mechanical College of Texas."
ook from the American Legion and VFW, they published that
county.
That's very ni e.
Its got quite a few people in it.
I bet it does. 've never seen that before.
The Americ .1 Legion knew my dad real well and, they asked him if he'd like to
have one of i ose books and he told them "I sure would," so, they gave him one.
Was this pub shed during the war or after the war?
I don't recall hether its got the date there or not, but it seems like to me it was
published just right after the war started, maybe a couple years after. I'm not
positive on th a t, but, I don't recall seeing a date in there. There might be one, but
I don't recall ; eeing one. Every now and then I sit down and go through the book,
because I know about half of them in there and some of them are still living, some
aren't, but I went to school with a lot of them, too.
That's a treasure. It really is.
I don't know where you would get one, you might be able to find one through the
Legion or. .. C aunty.
Well, we have one. The problem is for you to get it back. (Laughing)
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CS: Yes, I thought
pretty good inf
connection.
JB: Well now, I w
WW: E.R. Whitely,
CS: Yes
WW: Buried him on
JB: Who was that?
WW: E.R. Whitely.
brother in ther
CS: Quite a numbe
WW: Whitely was
JB: If I've heard y
College Statio
All: No. That's ri
JB: So, it won't b
Station during
families who
like, I'd surely
CS: Well, the main
JB: What about th
CS: Just didn't ha
were very, ve
just swap it ba
little more th
know about it
JB: Planting pean
CS: Oh, wehada
that, but I'd a
birthday. Bo
plant about 1
this room up
JB: So you were
CS: Nothing muc
worked with
times it was
a dairy, but
raising cattle
now, though.
JB: But, you wer
WW: Yes, I came
and sophomo
in December
dormitories,
.11
111
I I
.
t to ask
f course, the Congressional Medal of Honor Winner here.
e campus.
10
ybe you guys might enjoy glancing at it and I feel like its some
rmation in there. The guys, who they are, and a service
ere he is right there. See, there's several Whitely's. There's his
, too.
of brothers in there.
th the College of Agriculture. Was supposed to be his career.
ur stories correctly, most of you didn't spend the war years in
t.
extremely profitable for me to ask about your life in College
e war, but if you have any particular recollections from your
'ght have been in or around the area of what they thought life was
like to hear about them.
thing I heard was the ration business.
t?
e a lot of items, especially sugar and coffee and things like that,
scarce. And they finagled a way to get some from somebody else -
k and forth with some other thing that way some of them got a
others did because of the size, you know. But that's about all I
ts. Did your family plant a victory garden?
: arden from the time I was big enough to walk, I mean, I remember
ays get in there and pick those potatoes on, George Washington's
dad believed in that day, George Washington's birthday, he would
0 or 200 pounds of potatoes and we'd get enough potatoes to fill
here.
ever to keen on farming as a career?
on farming, now I've been ranching for about 50 years. Well, I
e Post Office Department. I was a rural mail carrier and a lot of
to getting home. I was also in the cattle business and at one time had
t wasn't too profitable. I got out of that thing. Anyway, I've been
er since and I still have cattle. They are about to get the best of me
Can't rope and handle them like I used to.
here during some of the war years?
e fall of `39. The war had broken out in Europe, so my freshman
e years were fairly normal and then here comes W.W.II when we got
f `41 then everything changed because then they. We lived in the 12
e new dorms, but they moved us over onto the old campus in `42
•
•
•
JB:
WW:
JB:
WW:
and they had a
doubled up thr
To make room
Three to a roo
jumped out an
A war wound.
Of course, thos
were pretty
them went into
classmates, tw
we were not in
service.
JB: Did the students p t pressure on each other to drop out of school and enlist?
WW: Oh, no, not at . i I don't think so. Some of them weren't doing very well in school
and as I say, th y've got to choose their own branch of service so they chose the
Air Force.
JB: They preferred th t to being drafted?
WW: Yes, to be draft d, yes. Very much, they didn't know what they were going to get
into if they did i at.
JB: Of course, after 1 43, you couldn't compete with the draft.
WW: No, what happ i ed then is, of course, one thing that they did in most of the civilian
schools is the • lieges needed to stay open and they even got naval training or
army and so th y developed what is known as the ASTP -Army Specialized
Training Progr: ii And so, that way while they sent many back to school to keep
the universitie open. So A &M got a sizable number of students to keep the
faculty employ d more or less and so all the other students were either 4 -F or
drafted. Then • f course, they took them into the service as the war went on and
then I think they must have gone down to low enrollment here at A &M There
were 6000 wh; , I came here in `39 and they had the people that were in the
service conne ed with it, but when all they left, well then you just had, I don't
know, maybe . couple of thousand students.
JB: So the university as really mobilized for the war.
WW: Yes, they were ii obilized. They cultivated getting things like the navy in here, of
course, and us d part of the Bolton Hall which is where the Electrical Engineering
Department w s. They set up code rooms there for teaching. And then they had
Anchor Hall i 'eh is over about where G. Rollie White Coliseum is now. They
had those for i aval training and some of our faculty taught the navy as well as
taught the AS ' and this sort of thing This is second hand of course cause I was
just a student t en.
JB: But in addition to the students they had military personnel on location.
WW: Oh, most of the students on campus were military so they had plenty of people and,
of course, some of them were married and this sort of thing and so they had some
families, but I can't say much about that. Of course, one thing, when I came here
in `39, A &M Consolidated was on campus, Pfeiffer Hall, a little dormitory, was
where the hi school was. it must have been where you were going to school.
11
avy school here, both radio school, operators, and repair. So, we
to a room and this sort of thing
or the others.
You put the bunks three top high and I've got a scar where 1
hit my chin. (Laughter)
men who did not take advanced ROTC and have a contract they
erable. So many of them, then, went on into the service. Many of
e Air Corps which became the Air Force and of several of my
of them were killed in the war. Except I was in the Signal Corps,
a real bad position and this sort of thing when we went into the
•
•
JB: I've seen the movL
WW: And so in the
freshman bec
Japan and he
outfit when w
steps and this
got back to Ja
broadcasting
roommate wh
observer's sea
dive bombers
wound up
had his boots,
JB: Who is Bill Stem
WW: Bill Stem was
of it. As I say
JB: And you took t
WW: Yeah, not too
all this sort of
JB: I see that must h
making a mo
WW: Oh yes. Oh ye
to have Corps
Regimental B
all this in Sbis
any number o
Now to hous
in these do
some other p
Many of the
JB: Many of the stu
WW: Hmmm?
JB: The students or
12
WW: And then, right behind dorm 2 was the music hall which was used as the elementary
school. And in about 1941 is when they built A &M Consolidated where we are
right now. Not this building, they had some wooden buildings and so, they moved
them off and, o:F course, A &M Consolidated was a consolidated school district is
what it meant.
JB: Tell me about the ocial life at A &M. How did that change over your four years?
WW: If you've seen ` e've Never Been Licked" I was in the movie.
JB: Well tell us about at.
WW: This was about a corniest movie ever made! It was about A &M, about a
freshman that came late in the semester and Robert Mitchum, Wallace Berry Jr.,
Martha Driscoll were in it. I have a tape of this thing .
e.
`42 they were making this movie here on campus and this
e disgraced because he defended Japan and he had come from
ew Japanese and so forth. But anyway, as I recall our particular
walked up into Sbisa Dining Hall tripped him as he went up the
as my outfit that he.... (Laughter) But he went off and apparently
an and he spoke Japanese, so he was kind of a traitor in that he was
propaganda. Well, he got to be on an aircraft and, of course his
was a pilot on one of the aircraft carriers and he was in the
behind the Japanese pilot and somehow he directed the American
this Japanese carrier and he crashed and died, but anyway they
g him the Congressional medal of Honor, and on Kyle Field they
d Bill Stern you remember him?
sports broadcaster back in those days and so here it was at the end
it was at the end of it. As I say it was really a corny movie.
e off from classes to help make this movie?
uch but I know we did a lot of drilling, you know have parades and
g -They were taking pictures and what not.
ve been pretty exciting in the town to have a Hollywood crew
e.
but what you did for entertainment, since A &M was all male, was
dances and Regimental Balls. So on Friday night you would have a
ll like the infantry and then you'd have Corps dances on Saturdays -
hall, and they had big name orchestras, Glen Miller, Harry James
really big orchestras coming And so this was our entertainment.
the dates? Well one of the dorms got vacated so the girls could live
ones for the weekend and you had to find wherever you could with
ople on campus somewhere and stay in their dorm for that weekend.
would stay in homes of course If I can remember.
ents or many of the women?
•
•
13
WW: Oh, the women, ould be either housed in a dormitory, or in faculty, homes, or this
sort of thing. o, the Aggies they found other places to live on campus.
JB: What if you want -' to drink a beer?
WW: This is the Whit Way Cafe out here at the East Gate. The county was all dry
except for beer
JB: What was the na s i e of that cafe again?
WW: The Whiteway ,afe. Its about where the 707 is now. I took my first beer there
when I was a juror. You go over there drink beer and then walk back to campus,
and this sort of thing. That was about the extent of it. Of course you had Uncle
Ed Hrdlika's ('singing: We'd go out to Uncle Ed's drink your troubles away I'd
rather be a Te s Aggie and thumbing a ride than have Greta Garbo for my
blushing bride. Anyway that was a song that was sung when you go out to Uncle
Ed's and drink your troubles away.
JB: I see.
WW: I think cadets d s n't sing it anymore, but that's what was written during World War
II.
JB: Well Uncle Ed isn't around anymore.
WW: Uncle Ed isn't, I 's daughter is. Her husbands name is Jack Fugate. You know it
would really b nice if you could have her talk about it.
JB: So if you wanted I and liquor you went to Uncle Ed's, if you wanted a beer...
WW: Uncle Ed had b er and that was it. We took our dates out there one night after a
dance and all s e tables were all carved up and beers and all that stuff and they said
gosh is an a place here. And we said well this is what it usually is.
JB: What about churches?
WW: Well, now, this is kind of important because about the only church was in the
YMCA chape and this is a Presbyterian Church and I'm a Presbyterian and
actually the A M Presbyterian church met in the YMCA chapel starting in the
20's. At the orthgate was a Methodist church and then of course the Catholic
Student Cente is -that was a Catholic church maybe you can remember that too -its
where Shell o' station is now, across from the parking garage and that's about all
there was in s e way of churches that I can remember. The Catholic, The
Presbyterians in campus and the Methodists, I'm not sure about the Baptists
church they st have had something on Northgate but all of them were rather
small.
JB: Were the church s involved in the war effort at all?
WW: Oh, I can't say that.
CS: I really don't kn s w either. I wasn't here at the time.
JB: When you were sn campus during the war, were the students involved in helping
recycle mate . s or anything?
WW: Not at all.
JB: You were waste
WW: We didn't hav anything to recycle.
JB: Were there drill for blackouts or anything of that kind?
WW: Not at all. ' s g World War II, along the east coast you'd ride trains and they'd
always put th curtains down and all the headlights of the cars, the upper half of
•
•
experiences wi
and just listen.
WW: What now?
JB: Your experience
your service in
Will: While I was in
Cod.
JB: First, tell me how
Will: Hmm7
JB: Did you flunk out
Will: Oh no. Went in
Massachusetts
I didn't get any
JB: You were an offs
Will: No, I didn't go
spent 3 1/2 ye
Teletype scho
So, you guys h
JB: Don't be so mod
Will: Where? After
JB: No, no, during th
Will: Oh, oh, I went
JB: And then?
Will: And then I went
cryptographic
Monmouth.
discharged in
JB: At the time of co
did?
JB: When you were
what were yo
Will: I was developin
German, crypt
were doing.
JB: O. K. good. Pat
Pat: I think your que
d you get in.
ion was what we did in the service and all that.
14
ere painted black, and you did not have any background light for
submarine -the German submarines along there too. Along the
the headlights
the ocean for
Atlantic Coast.
JB: Pat do you want t
Station during
Pat: I had no partic
and moved her
JB: Well we'll talk ab
and expect you to speak up. What I want to do now is hear about your own
the war and I suppose the best thing for me to do is be real quiet
ill, maybe you want to start.
add anything to this part of the discussion about life in College
e War?
relationship with folks here until I got out of the service in `46
So I don't know what the social life was here.
ut the social life of `46 before we're done here I can promise you
'th the war, tell me about your personal experience, tell me about
e military.
e service? I was first in the amphibian engineers, and up on Cape
of school and sign up to beat the draft?
e service at Camp Walters and they shipped us up to Fort Devans
the middle of a winter and I was at the bottom of the alphabet so
Artic boots. Here we were snowing and all that stuff (laughter).
r?
as an officer, I went into enlisted school and got into OCS. I
s in the service, two years going to school, part of the service.
cryptographic school, OCS, officers school, this sort of thing
1ped win the war, I didn't have much to do.
. Tell us what happened when you finished school.
e war?
war.
into OCS and got my commission.
to Virginia to a cryptographic maintenance school to learn about
chines. Before that I went to teletype maintenance at I Fort
en I went to Arlington Hall in Arlington, Virginia until I got
946.
se that work was highly secret, but can you tell us about what you
the war and you were working with these cryptographic machines,
doing? Many of us have never seen one.
new cryptographic machines and also we got Japanese and
graphic equipment to do some work on and find out what they
e war was over by then.
•
•
JB: During the war.
Pat: I was drafted I
could not get
was in the se
Bombardier sc
JB: Did you call it the
Pat: Army Air Corps
And then bec
we were put t
JB: Tell us a little bit
bombardier?
Well, at that tim
to be the pop
go to Wichita
Ft. Knox and I
center I believ
thing happene
night before y
sober. So the
said 30 minute
OK, so we ha
on that train
orders yet so I
just stay on
the way, a tro
Anna, Califo
around there
went to bomb
to be a bomba
JB: Yes sir.
Pat: Well you went t
would study n
JB: Where did you
Pat: In the desert the
ranges -you dr
program you
4 or 5 months
away we wer
Pat:
class studied a lot of basic things that anybody on flying status
vigation and had a lot of practice dropping bombs, a lot of it.
op these bombs?
e near Carlsbad. They had lots of shacks as we called them - practice
pped a lot of bombs there. And if you qualified and stayed with the
ere commissioned at the end of the service there, there after about
there. Commissioning was after completing the course and right
assigned to go to, they put us together as a crew, they had a pilot
from Dallas azd a co -pilot from Alabama, others were from Chicago, California we
were a mixtur there. Only 2 of us were from Texas. The rest of them were from
Illinois, Pennsylvania and just several states. We trained weekly as a crew about a
week in California and then we were on our way they issued a lot of fleece lined
u'd use over in the cold country so right away they us to the Pacific.
Hawaii, Honolulu for 2 or 3 days.
r what year this was?
clothes that y
We stopped •
JB: Do you rememb
15
ess, barely 18. Went to Ft. Knox, Kentucky I Army and while you
the aviation cadets then unless you were in the service and since I
ce I qualified and went on from there to the Air Force. Went to
ool, gunnery school, and bombardier school, Carlsbad N. M.
Air Force then or did you call it the Army Air Corps?
what we called it then till after W.W.II was the Army Air Corps.
e a separate branch of service, after finishing bombardier school,
ether as crews, we didn't get a leave, at all.
bout bombardier school. How did you learn how to be a
at's something most of us are born knowing.
everybody was wanting to be a pilot I think, Army Air Corps -seem
ar thing. And they said we don't need anymore pilots, but you can
alls, what they called, a classification center, I think they call it, at
got on that train to Wichita Falls, Shepherd AFB, classification
what they call it and on the way down there, well a funny little
there, the sergeant in charge was supposed to have told me the
ur going to Wichita Falls tomorrow, but he didn't, he was not quite
ext morning he came in the barracks of course Sunday morning,
going to catch a train and you're going to Shepherd AFB. Said
a lot of help. One footlocker held everything I had (laughter). Got
d he said when you get on that train somebody will have your
guess I'm still waiting on them. Anyhow, somebody suggested we
s train we don't know what to do with you. So, that train went all
p train, long, you all probably been on -ended up in California, Santa
. which was another center, classification center, so we hung
o or three weeks, then went to gunnery school at Las Vegas and
diers school at Carlsbad, NM. Your question was how'd you get
dier?
•
•
•
Pat: Yeah this was all n `44, it was about July `44 and after a day or two we went on to
the Guadal Canal and then up to Los Negros which is a little island off New
Guinea and started flying our missions there. We flew 24 missions before we were
shot down in i - Philippines just before we invaded the Philippines.
JB: What were you b bing before you were shot down?
Pat: A variety of thing., airfields, troop concentrations, couple of passes over the
Japanese navy hich had lots of firepower.
JB: They shot back?
Pat: Yeah, they did, i ey returned fire, lots of it. Yeah, so we bombed a variety of targets
that you find in the Pacific area.
JB: And what plane re you flying?
Pat: We were on a B- 4. We had 8 out of 12 that survived which was a pretty high
percent.
JB: Was this 8 out of
Pat: People.
JB: People?
Pat: I do not rememb
home and the
and all of us ju
tremendously 1
that. We flew
for having flo
JB: How many hours
Pat: About 17 hours.
Jim: Long time to sta
Pat: Gas tanks one bo
hopping you
Jim: Right around he
Pat: Yes, ha, ha, ha
of weight and
get many re
Why don't you t
A Fighter plane
one fighter pl
tanks make a
out.
Parachute
Oh yea and thre
strafed . The
That was the Fi
Yes.
After he was...
Bailed out over
Jim:
Pat:
Jim:
Pat:
Tim:
Pat:
Jim:
Pat:
2 men or 8 out 12 planes?
16
r a crew in that group that ever finished 24 missions and got to go
ortality rate there was tremendous. We were in the 13th Air Force
heard about the 8th Air Force because they had such a
ge organization. We were (Lone Wolf) minority Air Force if I say
sion of a tremendous length of time. We got a commendation
the longest mission in time at that time.
ould that have been?
b we went from Monday, out on another little island. Island
ow out on another little Island.
e. That's it there.
d right there we had just been rescued right here. We had lost a lot
e were living off the land there while we were missing, and didn't
ar meals.
11 us about the mission in which you were shot down.
of us down. We weren't to concerned about it because he was
e but he lucked out and caught us on fire. All those empty fuel
retty good fire hazard. Wing burned off the plane and we bailed
of them did not get out and one was killed in the parachute. Being
strafed me three times and they didn't get me. I don't know why.
ter pilot?
d. We just completed a bomb run. We were over some pretty
•
•
good jungle. It
were fortunate
two weeks to g
Jim: Do you remembe
Pat: It was Negros Is
Jim: Negros Island.
Pat It was midway in
there north of
Jim: So some friendly
Pat: Yea and it took
were scattered
Jim: Yes
Pat: So it took us a li
guerrillas we
together and p'
from the Marc
good little
together.
Jim Do you rememb
Pat: 8th or 10th of N
Jim: November 1944,
Pat: Yes, six months.
?: What number missi
Pat: twenty -four.
?: twenty -four.
Pat: yes, twenty four
and lost thirty -
many bombs.
Jim: How did you, be
this story abou
Presumably yo
the war?
Pat: No they were not fighting, they were there to primarily help and rescue the
Americans.
Tim: So what did they s o with you?
Pat: They treated us s yally. They ask if MacArthur was going to return. I said oh yes.
While we wer there, let me see, when did they re- invade in Leyte? At that time
we didn't kno . Next thing was Roosevelt was still president, they were mostly
poorly educat =d people. They were native, at most third or fourth grade education.
Jim: Huh Huh
Pat: I landed in the jungle in a very high tree, rainy and dreary like today only raining a
little harder. I was too high to drop to the ground, but I finally managed to climb
down. I heard some voices, I got my pistol out, ready to do what I could. I could
hear them coning, there was a big boulder about the size of a car. Just before the
firing started :omebody started yelling Americanio, Americanio don't shoot!
17
took about two weeks for all of our crew to get together. We
ecause of the guerrillas found and took care of us. It took about
t back together with the crew plus seven others.
the name of this land? Was it an island?
d
e Philippines on the west side about the third largest Island up
dano.
errillas found you?
o weeks to get all of out crew together cause as you bail out you
everal miles in thick jungle.
le while to get us all together. We were treated royally by the
't know who survived and who didn't for two weeks we got
ked up three other people that had been in the Philippines, one
of Batan, British Pilot, and 5th Air Force Pilot. We had a pretty
. I think 15 people were in there after about two weeks we got
the month and year when this happened
v. 1944
then you were in the Pacific for what six months
n was this? What number mission?
a, ha, ha I remember losing a pound a day. I went thirty four days
our pounds. But a lot of missions we would fly, there were not to
remember one mission, extra tanks and one bomb.
ore you went out on this, wait a minute I want to hear the end of
we now have fifteen of you with the guerrillas on Negros.
didn't stay with the guerrilla's and fight with them to the end of
•
•
Jim:
Pat:
Jim:
Pat:
18
ds. There was an old lady. maybe weighed 90 pounds. She said
celebrate your new birthday. She saw the strafing going on as the
ing at us in the parachutes. The Jap fighter pilot made three passes
e missed I don't know. The guerrillas sent a young man out late
d he came back late that night with a few bananas. Very
uldn't find any bananas for us. So they decided to have a barbecue
on't know if you are interested or not.
Don't shoot, fri
we are going to
Japs were shoo
at me and how
one afternoon
apologetic he c
in our honor. I
I am
They had a little oat or pig there. It might have weighed 20 pounds. Barbecued.
So they barbec ed him. And I was the only one at that time in contact with them
in my group. ell we talked all night and they asked all the normal questions
about Americ . i s.
What were the u al questions?
The usual questi s were how old are you, and your background, where you came
from, few que ions about the war, they knew it was going on (the Japanese) but
the didn't kno about the big picture. We didn't know either. And one of them I
remember had een to Idaho to harvest potatoes. And anyhow, after barbecue I
got to sleep in e headquarters building, which was a bamboo shack. Any way, I
got to sleep in e number one palace. I remember at that time I wasn't still sure I
was among fri ds. I remember going to bed, it must have been midnight or later
but they were •o glad to see an American. I saw a machete lying on the bed and I
thought, "I am going to move that thing because he is liable to cut my throat with
it. The guerrill, said to leave it alone. We have to leave here in a hurry if Japanese
come we have o know where everything is. I might have gotten an hours sleep
that night. i en we got back to the barbecue there were a whole lot of starving
kids around. I had not been there a day. I was not that hungry yet but anyhow.
They wouldn't take it but you could tell they wanted it for the worst thing in the
world. But I s dn't hurt their feelings but not eating so much. I nibbled a couple
of bites. Fina the kids got something to eat, there were 4 or 5 youngsters there
3 years to 6 ye: rs. Something like that. So after a little sleep. The next day they
said come on, e got to go. And so I began to trust the leader there. I had no
choice. And ent by where our plane had crashed. Meet the mayor of the Free
Talisha. We p : ssed by a group carrying the torsos of the rest of the crew members
bumed. Their leader said he would give them a burial, then after the war we will
know where i ey are. Went by where the wing burned off of the plane and went
about a mile. en we went on to another camp. Every day we walked from
camp to camp taking whatever they provided. They had a very interesting menu.
We got to wh re we trusted them pretty well, the guerrillas. It wasn't a lot of
them now. Ha If a dozen in one camp and half a dozen in another. They wanted to
be good to us. I remember, we got to where we could hardly walk, weak as well as
hurting and th !y had a water buffalo there. It was old. They wanted me to ride
and I got on tkat thing and rode about 50 yards and said "that's all folks" That
was the roughest thing you ever saw. We got to a river once and I remember there
was a lot of commotion and we stopped and hid in the bushes and finally, their
leader came b ck and said lieutenant take that cap off, because I had a Japanese
0
•
hat on. He sai
that so I took it
JB: The C- ration was
Pat: I would have love
JB: K- rations.
But any how we ad one day where we were going through the jungle and there was
a clearing there and there was the biggest commotion you ever saw and everybody
spread out and 't the ground. We were trying to figure out what had happened. I
found out after 15 minutes. They said," Lets go now. There was a monkey in the
tree they saw o e tree shaking They wanted that monkey but didn't ever get it.
We ate camote hich is the root they did up from trees. It looks a lot like a wild
persimmon tree with a root about that big around. You bake it a lot like a sweet
potato. Grind ' up and make some flour out of it, if its dry. He didn't ever cook
it. We had so si e monkey meat, I had some snake meat. We had some water
buffalo after he had died. He cooked it a four times and made it so tough you
couldn't chew . We had some fish. But fish were about minnows, I called them.
They would co . k them whole. Pretty good eating there for a few days. But the
eyeballs sure w re tough. Anyhow.
How long were y s u with the guerrillas?
34 days.
34 days.
Pat: They took pretty
JB: You all were near
Pat: We got to know
or 15 years old
do that." We
my shoes."
said," OK"
out of here a
Pat:
JB:
Pat:
JB:
ood care of us.
brothers.
ach other pretty good in fact we had one kid I remember he was 14
He wanted a promise to take him back with me. I said," I can't
d a tree and I said, " if you get me out of here alive I'll give you
y were the old army G.I.... with soles like a tire, real thick. I
e then wanted to trade pistols with me. I said ,"OK" You get me
and we'll trade.
" they might shoot me for wearing the hat." I had not thought of
off
robably looking pretty good.
to have some K- rations.
19
JB: What kind of pist 1 did he have?
Pat: He had a Japane pistol he got from a crashed Air Force pilot, which I still have.
JB: What is it, like a 'mm?
Pat: Seven or nine? luger type.
JB: Seven or nine?
Pat: I don't know w I ch it is, I haven't looked at it recently. So we got ready everyday
we kept mo ' s • and they said go south if you got shot down, catch a submarine.
They said we lot two more days. We were getting happy then. Our one outfit,
374th Squadro s , came on another bombing mission, and we flashed a mirror at
them and they flashed back. Here came a P -38 down flying about fifty feet off the
water and we an out to the beach and about three or four minutes the PB4 landed.
You all know what that is, its got two engines. We started to crowd on that thing,
fifteen people. I don't remember. About half of us got on and the pilot said "uh
huh ". We need some volunteers for the next trip. But there weren't any
volunteers to ay. (laughing) They divided us up. We had a pile of bananas
about the size f this table. They were heavy in the back of the boat. We were
•
•
•
about to sink th
but the pilot di
here to the fron
pilot. They st
when they start
pilot and the co
bounced off
celebrity there.
pictures, here.
crew, that cre
pretty well ho
headquarters.
they had the J
could they. Bu
that somebody
but I will deliv
down to Mc
via boat.
JB: Ga -lee.
Pat: But we spent so
Christmas Day
home, but we
Francisco. It t
under gove
Washington D
that, the navig
year, we got t
We went do
you got to si
JB: Was the war over
Pat: Yeah, we got po
around early.
A lot ofintere
JB: But Pat, you just
headquarters."
Pat: We got down th
emergency co
who talked to
hospital, then
JB: Maybe next time.
Pat: He was apparen busy on something
JB: Well, Pat, that w s a good story well told. I'd rather hear it as a story than look
through it mys If. Clyde, I wonder if you could share with us.
Clyde: I can't comp e with all that.
20
t thing. We were going down I said, "Throw the bananas out ",
't want to part with those bananas. He said somebody come up
and we might make it. I crawled up between the pilot and the co-
ed taking off and if you have ever been on a flying boat you know
o hit the waves. It goes bump, bump. The pilot looks at the co-
pilot and shook his head `no ". After about five minutes it
e stopped in Mindano. There was supposed to be an important
He was a congressman. We came back home and then took those
ome of them went to another outfit. Fifteen people, army this
two of those crew members were not from our outfit. That's
after we got back, they took us down to MacArthur's
e of those Philippinos gave me a map of a railroad car where
anese cornered and the Japanese couldn't escape and neither
they had a small arms fire. They wanted me to make sure and see
ame and bombed that railroad car. I said," I can't guarantee that,
the map, which I did." The result of that was that they took us
ur's headquarters to interview us. We returned to San Francisco
e time in the hospital there. Then we got to go home in December,
f `44. We started home and thought we were going to get to fly
ded up on a transport boat. We got out of there and in to San
ok two weeks. We notified your folks that you were alive and
t control, but you can't call them until we were sent to
to the Pentagon, for debriefing, and then to Arlington, VA. After
or and I were the two surviving officers which I got to see last
gether after 52 years. We decided we would go to Pilot School .
to Florida and Georgia. And we were in primary and basic and
up for three years. I decided I would finish up here at A &M.
then?
is on discharge based on your service. So we got out the first go
o I came home. The navigator stayed as a career in the Air Force.
ing things, it may not be significant.
eft one thing out, you said," you went to McArthur's
But you didn't tell us about the conversation you and Doug had.
e and we were supposed to meet him in person, but he had some
e up. But I still don't know (laughter). We had an officer there
s a few minutes, then he came back out and sent us back to the
ack home. We did not talk to him, we thought we were going to.
•
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JB: Well, you don't ha
Clyde: He would have
train with abou
and stayed ther
what not. Th
where there fall
truck drivers
enough. Woun
shovels. We m
equipment.
JB: Right
Clyde: Anyway, I was
Lewis Washin
there. But the
were one of th
East coast pre
with me and w
water everywh
place." But it
through with a
company and
that thing but
JB: Why is that?
Clyde: Well I figured
commander S
Tacoma Wa
21
e to compete, all you have to do
ad it, Gaundry, I would like to say I lived here in Bryan. I took a
200 of us I guess it was. Left here and went to fort Sam Houston
a couple of days. Got issued clothing and what not, shots and
one morning fallout well, first of all, before that first morning we
ut. They wanted to know who all the heavy equipment men and
all that you know. And oh well shoot. I can drive a truck. Sure
up at that big building with a bunch of wheel borough and
ved all the dirt they had stacked up there. That was the heavy
ready to leave the next day. And we left on a troop train to Fort
on. Didn't know what we were going to get into until we got
4th infantry division was there. And pretty well, all fit up, we
last groups to come in there. And most of our boys were from the
well. Think there was only three with my group here that was
trained there for about nine months. I got there and there was
re. Rain, rain, rain. I said," oh my goodness , I have to live in this
ever would stop the whole time we were there. Anyway we got
of our basic training there. And I was in the 81mm mortar
e 60cal machine guns were connected with us. I tried to get out of
dn't have any luck.
t was a lot easier than what we were doing. So I went up to talk to
about going up to, I think it was Cort Air Force base in
gton. So I said," well I should be able to just go up there and see
ell I had been doing a little radio work, you know at post." So
transfer. And I went up there. After they told me what I had to do
laining to us that we weren't going to be sitting in the United States
Telephones and Radios. They described what we had to do as a
lay a telephone line down way ahead of everybody else. And
and so forth; uh -no, no, no, this is not for me. So I got back with
ayed with them from then on.
bout this? Did they tease you about having left?
- they kind of carried me on there for a while but it didn't take long
t. But, anyway we left there after our basic training and we came
a And we spent three months down there in the mosquito
ifI can get in,
they gave me
they got to e
with that stuff
radio man
climbing poles
the unit. So I
JB: Did they rip you
Clyde: Yea, Yea, Ye
before they q
down to Lo
infested place.
JB: Lord, that's the orst!
Clyde: I thought that as the worst place I'd ever seen in my life. So it was hot, it was
so hot. We sp i t three months there and I thought it was bad. Then we left there
and went to Si ena Kansas. Dust everyday, you could hardly see sometimes in
front of your face, that far, sometimes with all the dust blowing. Well, I don't
recall how long. Not too long there. One morning we loaded up on troop train
and took off. We didn't know where we were going. Chugging on through the
•
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•
country, the United States, we wound up at camp Kilmore, New Jersey. Well, we
got there and vr:. found out where we were going. We then loaded up the next day
on these little Liberty Ships. I don't know just how many they carry, but not a
whole lot, co I I ared to some of the other ships. I don't know how many of them
things, it was a convoy of 150 ships that went over at one time. The one that I
was on , was o i e of the ones up in the front. And after I kind of got straightened
out, because d • below them crackers didn't do a bit of good. Man, I got so
seasick. And e ryone else also. And they gave us a chance to go up on deck and
we unloaded u . there. And while we were up there, the captain of the ship said
everyone belo . Well, we didn't pay much attention to him. The second time,
everybody below. I wondered what was going on. Well, we saw the head ship up
ahead, it was a battle ship up ahead of us, and all of a sudden we saw something
over the top of le waves. What was that? He just disappeared. A few minutes
later over ano i er one. What in the world is that, I didn't know what a PT boat
was. And the . ptain of our ship said everybody below or we are locking the
hatch. And we decided we better go below and just as we were starting to go
below, we saw i e P.T. boat shoot that barrel up in the air. We didn't know what
that was either, but we came back out and found out that they had torpedoed that
submarine, Ge 11.1 submarine and they got him. An oil slick came up and it was
floating all by Well, we made it on without any other incidents from there on.
And we started pulling to harbor in there in Cherbourg.
JB: Now when you w
Jersey to Cher
Clyde: No, they just
going to, but I
other front bes
the first of Sep
JB: September of `44.
Clyde: Yes, and I don
they said, "we
and the Ge
of the water ev
ship So they
and so forth th
And we took o
over there but
battles there.
or 4 days and
guns and ammunition. From then on we started moving forward. We went all the
way through France. We were south of Paris. We never did get too close into
there, we stayed south of there.
JB: Now you said you were in the 44th infantry?
Clyde: 44th, Right.
22
re in New Jersey, did they say you were going to go from New
ourg? Did they say you are going to Europe now?
'd you are going to a front. They didn't say what front we were
ew which direction we were going and I couldn't figure out any
es European Theater. So we were fortunate that we got there in
ember and the landings were completed. Thank goodness!
t recall how far we were out, but you couldn't see any land. And
an't go in any further because the ships the United States bombed
s bombed a lot of ships and so forth and they were just sticking out
rywhere." You couldn't come in too close with a big ship, troop
oaded us all off on barges and pulled us in through those boats
we got into the beach. And they issued all our equipment to us.
on foot. I don't recall but one time riding the whole time I was
e first time we stopped was at St. Lowe. This was one of the big
doing the landing, we got there and there we stayed for about 3
ey told us we're moving to the front lines. They issued us all four
•
•
•
JB: Do you remember
distract you, I
Clyde: "General Dean'
JB: You didn't play po
Clyde: No I didn't. S
JB: I'm sorry for inte
Clyde: But anyway, w
corporal gunne
losing men left
100% of the t
anything I me
a lot of men an
the radio. A to
company that's
there 9 times o
ahead of them.
time. A lot of
you a slit trenc
send messages
doing. I did a
much choice.
And business
south of there.
Imps also, and
had taken, Stra
pictures)
It probably di
No, well when
That Air Force
anything if the
church when I
project. I got a
building , she
Germany. She
aquatinted abo
chemistry depa
have no idea."
it. Well he cam
We crossed ov
had a bombed
come down an
nine when we were there during the war. She told me the only way they survived
was her mother and the two kids were there and she said the way they would
survive, she would take a bucket, a metal bucket and they each put one of them
over their heads and they got off into the Danube river and she tied them to the
JB:
Clyde:
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
23
he name of your division commander? I'm sorry, I don't mean to
as just curious if you did?
-He was also General of all forces in South Korea.
er with him too often.
e didn't. I might have if he would have stopped by sometime.
pting you, don't pay attention to my question.
started to get orders to go forward. At that particular time, I was
once we got in battle. It didn't take no time before we started
d right. We were fighting constantly, I wasn't with my outfit all
e. I spent 151 days on the front line without coming back for
it was impossible. I knew when I wasn't with my group we lost
I was a forward observer also, and radio operator. I stayed with
of the times I had to go on my own and you go up to the rifle
ahead of you. They were #1 up front. Then when you got up
t of 10, you would have to move out 3 or 4 hundred to 500 feet
You would do that at night time though. Don't go out in the day
es you had to crawl on your stomach to get out there and dig
to get into. Then you start looking to see what you could see and
ack about what you could see, what the German troops were
uite bit of that. I wasn't too happy about that but I didn't have
e moved on the Meher, went through France and into Germany
e picked up there, sure enough. I never was in Berlin, we were
We went through the southern part of Germany and Strasburg.
h Imps was right in Austria. And that was the biggest town we
burg- Germany. (schuftling through papers and looking at
't look this nice when you were done.
e moved in the whole thing was destroyed except this cathedral.
as something else. They could drop a bomb and just never touch
didn't want to. I think I counted three cracked windows in that
ent around it. And we moved into there. That was our biggest
little story on that. The lady that works right here at the Chemistry
ed right behind that cathedral, her and her folks. She was from
ad a brother and herself and her mother and dad. She and I got
t six years ago. Friend of mine lives at Anderson. He was with the
ment up here. He said," who was your liberator ?" She said, "I
He said I might have somebody that might know something about
back and talked to me about it. Had I ever been there. I sure was.
r the Danube river right there at Ulm, Germany and this cathedral I
ut picture there of it. Anyway we got aquatinted. He got her to
visit with him and I went over and visited with her. And she was
•
•
1
bank so that th
stopped dropp
only way they
could still keep
three nights in
visit with her
JB I wonder if we
this transcript
battle to someb
Clyde: Well I will des
Christmas eve
knew the territ
going. So we d
mortars in the
apart. And, we
shoot in front
somewhere.
everybody at
us to it. About
they started
fired almost to
on that gun th
JB: Literally burn
Clyde: Literally b
we just picked
firing. But an
with white
JB: Snow?
Clyde: Snow. You
infantry group
was daylight
Force for whic
to see them co
River. We wa
know how
ourselves up o
day. They wer
dreadful just t
JB: This would've b
Clyde: Yes. And, that's more or less a scene of what a battle was like. There's no end.
You just keep moving. We had our vehicles. I had a jeep and a jeep driver. He just
continually k t going back and forth hauling ammunition, the shells, they were
ammunition 8 millimeter, they were about 18" long and 6" around. And,
anyway, that as one of the battles. Now the other battles, where you get pinned
down by the rman troops, I've been up front. I've been up front with a rifle
wouldn't wash away and they'd all three stay there until they
g those phosphate shells and everything was burning and that's the
ed, doing that. They could get down in the water and they
eir heads up far enough where they could breathe and they spent
e river. And it was very interesting. We'd meet quite often and
d she just couldn't get over that.
ould go back a little bit. A lot of people who hear this tape or read
on't have ever been in a war or battle. How would you describe a
dy who has never experienced it?
ribe one that I think will about cover all of it. That was on
'ght of `44. We were going to surprise the Germans because, they
ry and we didn't and we only followed maps to where we were
cided we would surprise them. Our mortar platoons, we had 12
latoon. And we had them scattered out, I'd say about 500 feet
all coordinated our guns together and, we'd lay out a pattern to
f us because we knew the Germans were going to be in that area,
d, so we laid that pattern out beforehand and we made a point,
.i dnight, would start firing at the same time. Well the Germans beat
e minutes to twelve they must have had the same idea and boy
g. We were ready. We cut loose with everything we had. And we
aylight. From midnight to daylight. I burnt up about three barrels
I was firing. I mean it just melted away.
d up?
d up. We had extra barrels on hand, we had big protective gloves,
t up, threw it out of the way, put another barrel in and kept on
ay, we start firing and, they were firing on us. They moved into us
rms on. No one could see them on the snow.
24
ouldn't tell anybody was moving. And they were right on the
efore they realized they were there. Well like I say, we fired till it
d things quieted down then. Well they called in some of the Air
I was proud, because we called them quite often. And I was glad
e anytime. But, the next morning, we moved forward to the Blyce
getting ready to cross it and we started moving forward, I don't
y for sure we killed. The medics said that we lost about 200 men
the front-line. They said it was about 800, they counted the next
scattered all over that front, and it was dreadful, I tell you, it was
walk through there and see them laying everywhere.
en Christmas day?
•
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•
company too we got pinned down. They fired artillery in on us and, we started
firing m 1 s and chine -guns and mortars and everything else we had to get them
to move out of a way. So that, that's really a battle, there. And that was just
continually, all a time from one village to the next. Right on through
The Germans were backed up and they
couldn't go to ' witzerland so anyway they were just pinned in. That's another
beautiful count 6 . We moved there to Austria and, a lot of ski places there.
Snow, between ' e Alp mountains and, that's the most beautiful place in the world
that I've ever s =en. Well we stayed there until the latter part of April. When we
first moved in a were following these roads around them mountains. And we
didn't know th; war was coming to an end. Everything we saw was still war. We
came around a ountain and here came about 200 Germans and there wasn't but
about 25 or 30 • f us. Oh boy! Boy you talkin' about slamming on the brakes and
heading for the • ther side that mountain. We took everything we had because we
didn't know 1, t was coming up. But what it was , they wanted to surrender.
They knew the ar was over and they was wanting to surrender to somebody. But
they still had th it guns though. Boy they came around and we could see them
facing us with l at mob and just a few of us there. Well, we were getting ready to
cut loose once III ey started, but they didn't. They threw their guns up over their
head and surre • dered. They had a white flag and they was waving it. Well we
asked them wh t in the world was going on, because we didn't know.
JB: Someone there l oke German or...?
Clyde: We had a few ' at could... just a little bit. I never could say too much. I get a
word in every i • w and then. I learned to pick up a little of it but not too much.
But we had a f= guys that could speak German with us then. Anyway we found
out that the wa was ending but they still didn't want to give up back further up in
the mountains • t they finally did. We finally just pushed them up on in the corner
and they coul• i't go any further because the 2nd division had them pinned up
there in Italy. i d, they couldn't go that way cause they was up in the mountains.
They was just ck. And, I can't think of the admiral, the German admiral. It
was kind of od • there. An admiral backup in the mountains when he should've
been out on a p. But he and one of the generals, I can't remember their names,
but, , we cap red those two. And, the war ended there about the first part of
April. And, we stayed there until the latter part of April. I wound up with a fairly
good job. I wa. Sergeant Guard of the whole thing and oh, I had me a Jeep and all
I did was ride a ound and check the guard posts and so forth. And swapped tires
for a wrist wat • I and a case of beer or something along that line, you know? We
all got to find somebody. And , that was a beautiful country. The snow was just
beginning to m It and come down....the river running in the bottom, and the grass
beginning to get green. When we left, it was just beautiful. I'd like to go back for
a visit. I'm hopg to get back over there pretty quick. I wanted to go before but I
think I am goin;; to make it now this coming year.
JB: When did you turn to the states?
Clyde: It was around a middle of may when we got back.
JB: Very quickly?
25
•
•
•
Clyde: Very quickly. ey picked us up right away and just sent in another division there
and, we came ri: i t on back. We walked all the way across there and I'll estimate
it from the time e got off the ship until I got back to a ship, I guess I covered
somewhere in i e neighborhood of about 4000 miles on foot.
JB: That's a long w
Clyde: Long walk. Ye -. It sure was. And we didn't ride. There wasn't a way to ride.
One time we ro e. I remember and that was when the Battle of the Buldge was up
on. They picke us up there one night about midnight. And we took off in trucks
and jeeps to tha front. We were protecting the southern front of it. And, it was
snowing. It wa cold. Black out. You couldn't see nothing And, I loaded all my
men on trucks . i d after I loaded them up I found out there wasn't no space for
me. So the je- that I had. I already had three men on there. All the guns and
ammunition loa ed on the trailer and truck so well I don't have much of a choice if
I'm going go i `em. I didn't care about going but I had to. So I got on the
trailer and stoo s on the trailer hitch and held on.
JB: Held on for de , life huh?
Clyde: Yes and man, I : so ost got lost. They came across a railroad track somewhere
during the night and up over it. And when I went up and over it I went up in the
air and when I ame down one foot hit the trailer hitch on one side and I just hung
on but I made i OK. But that was the only time I rode. We didn't ride otherwise.
JB: And that wasn' i such a great ride either, was it?
Clyde: No, it wasn't. I wasn't such a great ride. But that was about it. I mean as far as,
our fighting ov -1 there.
JB: Well 150 days, that's a lot of fighting...
Clyde: Yes, 150, that' a lot of fighting. Well, I remember one other little incident when I
first got over th - re. They sent me up as a radio operator and telephone guy came
back from 45th . ion. I believe it was. And, he told me how to get to the
observation po . He said, "You follow that telephone line, just pick it up and
follow it when ou get to the end of it the telephone is still there." He said, "I left
it." So I did an ' that was my first experience there. And, when I took off, well I
was by myself . d I was following that line I ran into a crater there about ten feet
in diameter and about eight feet deep. And I said," well I'm not going to lose this
line. I'm going down in that hole." So I went down. I stumbled over something
and went on up and didn't pay any attention. Went on up to the front and the next
day after we go settled, well they sent another two guys up there, the radio man
and the obsery . I came back following that line and it was light - daylight -
where I could s e my first dead German I stumbled over ... down in the hole and
if I would have . 11 bled over him and know what it was. I don't know what
would have hap i ened because that was my first one. But we saw them
everywhere, all over. Some of them were old men too -- that was the bad part of
it. But that wa, about it.
Jim: Well thank you, thank you. It's hard to break away from this topic but we have
one more area tD cover if we can, if you got the energy for it. That's it, if you
could explain what it was like to be a returning veteran, but in particularly
26
•
c
returning after i e war to this area. Um, I can't remember, Will, when exactly did
you come back o College Station?
Will: Well, when I g s discharged, I'd gone back to A &M and only had 40 hours to
finish The dile of course is whether to bring the family back from Delaware
or home to Te : s but I didn't have much decision to make - I wanted to come
back and get m degree. So I came back the Fall of `46.
Jim: And had the to i changed much since you were gone?
Will: No it really ha 't. It didn't have much going on and of course I enrolled that fall
and I left my e and daughter in Dallas with my folks and we had one girl;
College View • artments opened up in February of 1947. These were barracks
along Universi Drive where they now have nice apartments. They moved up
here from Vict a I believe, and made each one into eight apartments. So we
were all veter and since I was graduating in August, I had first choice to get in.
And so I brou: t my family from Dallas and all I had was a bicycle with a basket
on the front. e had to go into the A &P store which is in the middle of Bryan and
that was the ne est supermarket. I'd ride the bicycle in to get groceries. We had
Mays Market o the comer of University Drive and Texas Avenue, you remember
that? Yea and, . f course our son was born right at the end of the spring semester.
And I registere ' the next morning for summer school to finish up in August. But
all of us were v terans and hardly any of our wives could drive a car, including my
wife. Of cours= all of the Texas girls, they drove cars all of the time. We didn't
have a car an ay. So anyway, I spent a year here to finish up and get my degree.
Jim: Did you have tr s uble finding a job?
Will: Oh, not at all. had a choice. I could have gone to GE, back in New York but I
wanted to stay Texas so I went to work for the same company my father
worked for in allas but the branch in Houston.
Jim: And you Pat?
Pat: I had no conne ions to Bryan or College Station before I was a student here. So I
could not say 11 ether it has changed or not. I bet several other fellows here will
want to listen t these other good stories. Now, our esteemed President George
Bush, a great p esident, claims to be the youngest pilot. I might have been the
youngest bomb dier. I did all this and came back and I still, it was about three
years, was not ld enough to vote. But I have had some more notable details.
Some of which, e kind of gory that I haven't related here but I think we have
about run out o time.
Jim: Well Pat, if yo have something you think we should add I wish you would add it.
Pat: It is probably 'significant in all but interesting maybe to you as it was to me. We
have picked up , couple of guys in out crew after we got together after one of
which have be through fall of Baton, the other been there about that long but
never was a prisoner. Guerrillas always had wanted to entertain. They treated us
like we were somebody. Anyway, we got pretty well away from the Japanese, we
thought. And I remember a boy named Buckavinsky. He was army. He escaped
from a death march up in Luzon. He spent three years getting far down as he did.
He became prety much like an animal in his lifestyle. Now we had two Japanese
prisoners there, and after a few drinks there, he wanted to skin these prisoners.
11 11
27
•
First got into . i argument about which one he would skin first. And then they had
a long argumen about, do we kill them first or do we skin them first? After awhile
I told him, "Fell . w, I need those two prisoners to carry my baggage here. So let's
don't do that." i ey finally gave up on it. Lot of stories inside there though I
can't go over it.
Jim: It's hard to tell verything in just a few minutes ... Tell me when you go ... you go
into the Army a 18, you come out and you are not quite 21, and now it is peace
time, does it se-is boring to you?
Pat: The army or pe ce time?
Jim: The peace time.
Pat: Oh, I would no say it was boring. But you know, quite different.
Jim: Had your ambit ons changed at all?
Pat: My only ambiti ' n was to finish college ... and preferably at Texas A &M. And that
was the only re . son I got out of the service, because I really liked the Air Force
and wanted to ay in but I said if I don't get out and do it now, I never will.
Jim: Did you ever • is . about going back in, the Air Force? When Korea started?
Pat: Yeah, I got a to egram in Korea that said, would you like to come back on active
duty, voluntaril It was not an order. I said no, not unless I had another rank So
I passed.
Jim: And was it gen al you were looking for?
Pat: No (laughing). 1 just thought I had enough of that and done my part of it.
Jim: And you were a A &M for three years. And graduated 1948?
Pat: No I was here s om January `46 to January `48. I went full-time. I wanted to get
that sheep skin.
Jim: You were in a sh?
Pat: Well, I had to. got tired of pork and beans, peanut butter, you know. You want
to get it over as quick as you can.
Jim: How was the ell, loyment environment after that? Were you able to easily find
work?
Pat: I think so. It w s kind of ... really easy after World War II. There were a lot of
jobs available t i re. I went to the Chamber of Commerce Management Business.
Spent a good b of time with Radio -Free Europe later on. And spent the last
eighteen years Chamber Manager here in Bryan- College Station.
Jim: Clyde, you wer coming home.
Clyde: Yes sir.
Jim: How were thins for you when you came home?
Clyde: Oh, it was fine. I came home and ... I was not out of the service at that time, but I
got home in Au: st, the first part of August. And in August, Harry Truman
dropped them b I mbs over there. I was getting ready to head to the Pacific and he
dropped them b I mbs. And oh boy, that suit me just fine. So, that was the last
part of Septems er because, I told my wife , I said," I have got now until October
8th I believe" . id I said " would you like to get married ?" She said "Yep." So we
got married Au st 2nd, 1945, and left right after that. I went back up to Kansas
and I spent a couple of months up there to be on the point system to be getting
out. And then I came back home I was ready to go. I was married and had a
28
•
place to live.
and I had a plac
home, really no
further in schoo
going to school
up the next mo
of years in at B
But in the mean
was living with
too well, going
school part and
fortunate to get
engineering dep
money, was not
which I still fee
Post Office dep
He was not do'
there and he sai
time while I wa
let the wife tak
the dairy busine
and that is abo
me.
Jim: Clyde, thanks
making my job
completely to a
I have not thou
Will: Well, what do
Tim: I teach sociolo
from the east. B
Well, I know yo
they are to be sh
sharing your exp
am sure for eve
much.
29
ell, her father owned this place we have now so she had a home
to go. Otherwise, I would have no place to go. But, I came
no big problem. I was like Mr. Mann, I really wanted to go
because I had been out for quite a while. I was working and
at night time. I would go to school until about midnight and get
g about 5:30 to 6:00 and go to work. I manage to get a couple
Then I was going to transfer to either A &M or Sam Houston.
ime, my family was little larger and I had my wife's father. He
s. I had five of us to feed. I said that this was not going to work
o school and no money to feed on. So I just forgot about the
ent on got me a job with the highway department and really
on a good deal there and wound up as inspector for the
rtment. I really enjoyed that work, really loved it. But the
much to it. So I decided that I could do better than that. And
I did but going ... I was just fortunate to be getting in with the
ment because they were not hiring too many but one of the guys.
g right and they needed to replace him And so, a friend of mine
how about taking that job. It suited me fine. In fact, in the mean
doing that, I had a grocery business too for twelve years. And I
care of the grocery business with hired help. And so, I also had
s too. So I had three jobs at one time. Anyway, it all worked out
it. And as far as I could say, it all worked out pretty good for
of you have been really cooperative and most forthcoming,
ery easy and I thank you for that. Before I bring things
close, I do want to say ... Is there anything you would like to add?
t of every question a person could asked.
u do?
at Texas A &M. I came here fourteen years ago ... transplanted
t happy to be here now and I consider myself an adopted Texan.
all brought a lot of interesting things. I do not know how exactly
red but I thank you for the things you brought and I thank you for
riences with us. It has been really an interesting time for me and I
one who sees the tape or reads the transcript. So I thank you very