HomeMy WebLinkAboutEarly Education II Panel Group 5 GROUP 5
HELEN PUGH
R.B. HICKERSON
Early Education
July 31, 1996
Moderator: Mary Jane Hirsch
Interviewees: Helen Pugh, R.B. Hickerson
Moderator - ...but certainly we're not limited to that, I'd say memories you had of the history of College
Station and to just hear your voice and to know something about you. Just introduce yourself so that the
tape recorder will get a record of your voice and something about yourself when you came here something
about your family and so lets start with you Bill.
BH - My name is Bill Hickerson and I lived at 218 Pershing Street, College Station. I came here in 1936,
we built the house in 1936 and I still live in it. When my children started school, they started school in
this Consolidated when we moved here it was on campus but by the time my children were old enough to
go to school they had built a new Consolidated school.
Moderator - And your children were?
BH - Ann Hickerson, Dick Hickerson, Jr.
Moderator - OK where were you born Mrs. Hickerson?
BH - I was born in Erin County and that is Murchison and that is 20 miles kind of south west of San
Angelo. My family people were ranchers and I wasn't born in town. I was born in my grandmother's
house. But that was in Erin County too. They had ranches in there.
Moderator - Oh I see, and when did you come here?
BH - 1936.
Moderator - 1936 with your husband?
BH - Yes, with the agricultural, Texas A &M Agricultural Extension Service.
Moderator - And were your children born here?
BH - One was born in El Paso before we got here and one was born here.
Moderator - OK and they went to school at Consolidated.
BH - Went to school at Consolidated until they got into high school and then they both went to Bryan
High School.
Moderator - Well let's go to Helen Pugh, Helen tell us about yourself.
HP - Oh dear let me see good or bad?
Moderator - Well start with your name.
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HP - I'm Helen Pugh and I first moved to College Station with my husband, Marion Condy Pugh the day
after we moved February 7, 1941 and lived at 305 Highland. Then we left for a while, but permanently
we moved here, on 307 Fidelity and been here since February 1947. We had one son, Marion Condy
Pugh, Jr. He was born in Fort Worth on 1/8/43 and I was born in Fort Worth on 10/20/17 and so was
Marion oon 9/6/19. What else would you like to know?
Moderator - Did your son, Condy, go to school in College Station?
HP - Yes, first he went to Trudy's Kindergarten and loved it. Everybody loved Trudy Hardaway.
Moderator - Trudy.
HP - Trudy Hardeway. And then he started school here in the first grade. We lived at 307 Fidelity Street
at that time. In the late 50's we moved to 601 Fairview and we lived there ever since.
Moderator - So you lived in the South Side Area.
HP - That's right.
Moderator - As did the Hickersons. And was the school on the campus when your son went to school?
HP - No it was here.
Moderator - They had already moved over here. Had they been here long in this area?
HP - Evidently I didn't know about the school on campus at all.
Moderator - Do you remember about the year?
BH - Well I think it just lasted about three years on after we got and moved here.
Moderator - On campus.
BH - And my daughter went to kindergarten with Mrs....
Moderator - Lyles.
BH - Nope my son wen tot Mrs. Lyles, Mrs. lived in that broad house, Tanzer.
Moderator - Oh, Mrs. Tanzer, yes.
BH - She went to kindergarten with Mrs. Tanzer before her husband died. And then after he died, she
started teaching here and they all had her in the fifth grade. Before my daughter started school, she was
six years old when she started school I think the school had been going on about two years and I'm not
sure about that. But not before that.
Moderator - I'm going to jump, oh excuse me did I interrupt? I'm going to jump in and say I'm going to
be an interviewee for a second. I was born on the campus in 1931. I mean my family lived on the campus
and I went to school on the campus for the 1st grade and I have a brother who is a year older and Mrs.
Tanzer was his 1st grade teacher and then when I was in the second grade I remember distinctly moving
to this facility and Mrs. Brownly was my teacher.
• BH - Were you in the third grade?
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Moderator - I was in the second grade and I remember Mrs. Brownley letting me carry books an put them
up and that was wonderful. We had little cubbie holes for our things.
BH - Both of my children had Mrs. Brownley Holsman in the fourth grade.
Moderator - I had Mrs. Holsman, wonderful lady.
BH - Do you know what year you started over here?
Moderator - In this school?
BH - What grade were you in?
Moderator - I was in the second grade, it must of been `38 -'39, 1939 -1940, I'm not sure.
BH - You were born in `31?
Moderator - Yes.
BH - And Ann was born in `34. So you were 3 years younger, older. This must of been the 3rd or 4th
year when she started . Cause she started when she was 6 years old here in this school.
Moderator - You know another thing I remember is I was not in 4th grade and everybody skipped a grade.
BH - My daughter skipped from the 1st to the 3rd grade. And I didn't want them to, but they did anyway.
Moderator - Everybody did. Texas put in the 12 year system.
BH - When she was in the 1st grade and there were a few children who weren't real good in the first
grade and they put them in the second grade.
Moderator - I always wondered if they had a second grade.
BH - Yes they did. Bobby Caro was promoted to 2nd grade, who was the dean of school. Barrles was
promoted to the second grade and Clifford was promoted to the second grade. I remember those 3 cause
they all lived kind of close.
Moderator - Well you have answered a question that I have been asking teachers. Did they have a second
grade the year everybody skipped a grade and now I know.
BH - Some of them were promoted to the 3rd grade and some of them promoted to the 2nd grade, so they
had a second grade.
Moderator - So we only went to school for 11 years, Ann and I.
BH - Yes I am going to tell a joke on Barrios. Ya'll all remember Barrios. Well my daughter married a
boy in the Air Force and he ran into Barrios in the Air Force, and he said he used to live in College
Station. And my son -in -law said "Well I married Ann Hickerson and did you know her. " And he said,
"Yeah' think I remember her. She was a lot older then I was. They were the same age."
Moderator - My memory is kind of like that too about a lot of things. Well how did your children get to
school ?
BH - Walked . We just lived 2 blocks from here.
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Moderator - They walked to school.
BH - Came home for lunch.
Moderator - Came home for lunch everyday.
BH - My husband did too.
Moderator - Mom had to fix lunch. Did your son come home for lunch?
HP - Oh he usually took his lunch and he walked. We lived on Fidelity Street right next door to Mrs.
Tanzer. She was a nice wonderful lady.
BH - Oh that's when they built along Lee Street.
HP - No that was after.
BH - Oh after Professor Tanzer died?
HP - After.
BH - Oh after he died she moved over there to 305 Fidelity. I remember that she sold that house on Lee
Street and moved over there.
BH - See he died.
• HP - I never knew Mr. Tanzer or Dr. Tanzer.
BH - And they have a boy same age as Dick. He died of the same type of illness his father died.
Moderator - Mrs. Tanzer taught for many years and started the wild flower collection.
BH - My children both had her in the fifth grade.
Moderator - Did they do the wild flower collection?
BH - Yes.
Moderator - They did and your son did that?
HP - Yes, only he wasn't lucky enough to get Mrs. Tanzer, he had Mrs. Ivy.
Moderator - Do you remember Mrs. Ivy?
BH - I don't remember Mrs. Ivy.
Moderator - Well if your child went to her class you would. Remember children who weren't close
enough to walk rode the bus.
BH - They didn't have any buses.
C Moderator - No buses.
BH - No buses right at first. Their parents I guess took them.
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Moderator - Well weren't there children coming in from Wellborn. It was Consolidated.
HP - They had a grade school down there just the high school children came in.
Moderator - Oh is that right? I didn't know.
HP - And then the children around Lincoln had their school.
BH - And then they had a grade school and I don't remember the name of it. But Lincoln was the name
of the high school for the blacks.
Moderator - Well we're asked to describe recess or play time at school so do you have anything to add to
that?
BH - See, my son got hurt at recess. He always stumbled over something, he always had to go to the
doctor. They'd call me from the doctor's office they were always sewing him up.
HP - I remember the area that they had to play in in the lower grades was just a dust bowl and the
children were getting dust pneumonia so I proceeded to take a little project to try to black top that area.
Do you remember when that happened?
BH - No I don't.
HP - I don't remember the year. Condy was born in `43.
BH - Dick was born in `39, so he's four years older. They went to those what do you call it?
Moderator - We called them the "chicken shacks ".
HP - But anyways, I got into some trouble because we did black top and it covered the dust. But the
teachers didn't like it. Well the dust, I mean the blacktop would be better than pneumonia.
BH - Yes for the children.
Moderator - Why didn't they like it?
HP - I don't know.
BH - I don't remember.
HP - Well this was after your time. So that's the thing I remember about playtime.
Moderator - I see, all right, they asked about lunch the menus for lunch but your children went home for
lunch.
BH - They didn't have a cafeteria at first.
Moderator - No cafeteria.
BH - I remember when they put it in but I don't know what year it was.
C HP - It's when they built the building up here on the corner of Timber and Jersey.
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Moderator - That big gym building was the cafeteria wasn't it?
BH - No, there was the cafeteria before they had that big gym. But since my children lived so close they
just went home.
Moderator - Did they have school dances, school traditions?
BH - They did in high school when my daughter got to high school because I've got a picture of her. A
long dress I made for her. They were in Junior High school. She went with Max Manly to that dance.
Moderator - So if she needed a long dress, was there a shop here to get a dress?
BH - Ididit.
Moderator - You did it. Was that true of most of the....
BH - I imagine some of um. I made a cotton ball dress, almost lost my mind doing it. Some a little later I
bought her some dresses, but most of them I made them.
Moderator - Did most of the mothers make their children's clothes?
BH - Oh yes they did. Copeland's did and I think Winn Seacher made her children's long dresses. I
don't know about the Hale's they had two daughters. And one was older and one was younger but I can't
remember. Do you?
HP - No I don't remember Mrs. Luis Mae Hale was a garden club member. I remember my son's first
date was with Suzanne Sorenson and he loved Suzanne they went to Kindergarten together and he always
thought Suzanne was so pretty and so nice.
BH - All the boys did.
HP - Yes, and I remember we took him around to the Sorenson's home and he went in and got her, came
out. They were real close friends for quite a while.
BH - I want to say when my son went to a dance. It was my turn to pick them up and so I picked up John
Harrington and the little Burns boy and Jack Burns. And we picked up the little Thompsons girl which
my son was dating and we picked up Jacks. And I said John do you know Louise, Oh yes I use to be in
love with her they were about fourteen years old.
Moderator - Later when they went out.
BH - Urgle. Do you remember her son's came by to see about putting the air conditioning in my house.
Moderator - I remember Jake McGee and Avon McGee.
BH - They were neighbors of mine they lived across the street from me. My daughter and Jake are still
good friends. They never did date they were just real good friends and still are.
Moderator - In high school where did young people go for a date?
BH - Dates all the time.
HP - I guess they went to Guion Hall, to the shows.
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BH - We had a neighbor that Sunday show and all the kids in the neighborhood from the little ones to the
ones in high school went over together and one kind lady went over there and left that little Carter boy,
his parents took him out to dinner Sunday dinner. And he came panting to our door have they gone. Yea,
they've gone, he ran all the way down Holick trying to catch up with them. They went every Sunday
afternoon for a dime.
HP - I remember when the Rudder's moved into town. And Ann Rudder, it was when she was in high
school and Condy was in high school and she had the most wonderful personality. She was older than
Condy but Condy just loved Ann Rudder and huh they had a wonderful time together. And I never will
forget they borrow our lumber yard truck for their bon fire.
Moderator - Oh their high school bonfire.
HP - High school bonfire and Ann was in charge of that. And it was terrible because Marion wanted her
to feel responsible because she was the main one in charge of it. And I never will forget he made her take
part in paying for that blow out.
Moderator - Paying for it.
HP - Paying for it.
Moderator - Was her father president then?
HP - Yes he was president then and, he kind of just....
• BH - Had the house burned down..
Moderator - No it was before, it had burned.
BH - It's like when he came here he was president, I can't remember.
Moderator - He came here as president.
BH - I can't remember him not being president.
Moderator - There were several Rudder children. Mrs. Rudder was at church, Sunday with...
HP - The Rudder's had 2 boys and 3 girls. `Bud" was the eldest, Ann was the oldest girl.
Moderator - She had an older boy that was already grown, Bud.
HP - Bob is the younger one. But they were wonderful people and just melted right in with our
community.
BH - He was the one that started A &M back on its feet. And I tell you every year he was in there they
improved . And that's when A &M started improving under him. And he had control.
Moderator - He really did.
BH - I think he was the best president we ever had.
• HP - I'll never forget the corner of the golf course where you turn on to Jersey. Use to be Jersey its George
Bush now, it was always like a city dump. I mean everything was dumped in that corner. And I couldn't
take it any longer. And I went to the city, no that's county, went to the county, no that's state. I mean I
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just got the go around, so one day I just couldn't stand it any longer. I went in picked up the phone and
called Earl Rudder and told him the situation going on for a year, I know. Do you know it was fixed the
next day, cleaned up and taken care of.
Moderator - Did they have scouts then?
BH - Yes, my son, was cub scout and boy scout.
HP - Because Ernest Tanzer was an Eagle Scout and he was great in scout work and lived next door to us.
Ernest was an influence on Condy becoming a Cub Scout.
Moderator - After school sports.
BH - My son was an athlete so he was busy. From the time he was in the sixth grade on he was staying at
school practicing something. That's the main reason we let him go to Bryan they had a stronger athletic
department and a bigger school and they did get to go to state.
Moderator - Did he get to go on to college then?
BH - Yes he played baseball for A &M.
Moderator - Oh he did, great.
HP - Well they had plenty to do they were always busy with something.
BH - Mr. Grant own the lot right in front of my house he had the Gulf filling station over here and he left
that lot vacant and there must of been 30 kids in our neighborhood and he left that lot, the kids called it
Grant Field and every day as soon as they could get out there they were out there if it was basketball,
backboard, football during the day they played baseball during the baseball season. But it was going on
all the time.
Moderator - Where was this?
BH - Right in front of my lawn, the vacant lot it belong to Mr. Grant who lived next door.
Moderator - It is still there, isn't it?
BH - If they got to fuss out on the field he sent them home, so there was very little fussing. But he said he
could sell that lot and when he got old he sold that lot but he left that lot there all those years for those
kids.
Moderator - So did they have Little League?
HP - Yes my husband sponsored the Marion Pugh Lumber Co. White Sox.
BH - My husband coached in the Little League. My son played in all the leagues named them he was in
everyone of them, Little League, Pony League, Junior something League, finally he got to High School.
Moderator - I remember we had the College Station Recreation Center Councils Citizen Committee.
BH - I was on it.
Moderator - I was on it once, too.
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BH - Mr. Marls was on it, use to play football her, I can't remember everybody that was on it, there were
seven.
HP - And you were on the council?
Moderator - Yes but probably later when my children were young. Do you have anything else Helen to
add to that?
HP - You know you forget so many things and then when you get to thinking it seems like just yesterday.
BH - It was a wonderful place to bring up children. They never had to worry about none of the children I
know had any trouble they were busy all the time. Playing, chores.
Moderator - You know I was a moderator for school teacher the last time I was a moderator for this. The
teacher just insisted they never had any problems with the children and I'm going. But they said it they
said the parents supported the schools the children were just super.
BH - I never heard them complain about any bad children in school.
HP - Well, there were two and one of them is on the police station with the police department now.
BH - Well surely they did some little things. I remember someone called my neighbor one night and said
that they had their son over there. I had forgotten what he was doing. He said, "My son's in bed." And he
said, "Well he told me what his name was and it's the same as yours, so you better get over here." So,
little things happen. Somebody would run through our yard every once in a while and pull a switch and
• our lights would go out.
HP - Oh!
BH - That would barely happen, but you can't say they was compared to what they do now.
HP - Oh, yes. It's a larger town now.
BH - That was just mischief.
Moderator - Do you remember some of the teachers, Mrs. Pugh?
BH - Oh, a Mrs. Holsman, oh she wrote a book. Mrs. Layman. She was supposed to be there.
Moderator - Yes, Will Layman. Is that the book you meant?
HP - Yeah, I saw Mrs. Layman, I believe.
BH - She loved her.
HP - Do you remember Margaret Scoalfield? Scoalfield. Maybe she was gone by then. And her sister, Sue
Scoalfield. Both taught. I had Margaret Scoalfield in about the fifth grade or sixth grade.
BH - I think she married.
• HP - She married. She did, she did. Miss Scoalfield - she had red hair and she had a...
BH - She had kindergarten for a long time and then she taught first grade, then she went to kindergarten,
I don't know who who's that would be, was there a Mrs. Buchcann.
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BH - I don't know.
BH - - Her sister was Mrs. Martin and Martin was in the Extension Service when we first came, just
before we came here Mr. Williams was made director but before him Mr. Martin.
HP - I will always be grateful for Mrs. Sloop that Condy learned to read.
Moderator - Can you tell us about Mrs. Sloop and her reading program?
HP - Not too much. The only thing I remember you know it was phonic, phonetics, whatever you know
and he wanted to spell mother MUTHER, you know, because it's mother, he learned to read and I'm so
thankful for the Sloop system of reading.
Moderator - And didn't she publish that?
HP - Yes.
BH - And there was an awful lot of jealousy in that?
HP - There was.
BH - Politics.
Moderator - Between the teachers?
• BH - No, the book publishers they just...her out and then she died. She was fighting them pretty well until
she got real sick.
Moderator - Well, did she get it published?
BH - I have one of her books, I taught, I used that book, I taught fourth grade and I used it.
HP - Now you see I didn't know that you taught fourth grade here.
BH - In Bryan.
HP - Oh, in Bryan. I didn't know that.
BH - But I want to tell you when my sons had her in first grade and one day he came in and he said he
called me Bill. and he said, "Bill, has the Batallion come yet ?" And I said, "What ?" Our paper, The
Batallion, he was trying to show me that he knew phonics, the Batallion, and if you pronounce it like she
taught it would be battalion.
Moderator - Well, when I went to school we didn't do phonics, it was sight, so that was before Mrs. Sloap.
BH - He's still a good reader.
Moderator - I was going to mention some more about Mrs. Scofield, we had a verse speaking choir. This
must have been before ya'll came, and I remember the kids in my class, we'd go around to churches or to
civic groups and we'd say our little verses.
BH - Was that when ya'll were going to school on campus?
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Moderator - No, it was here. I must of been in the 3rd grade, no that was Mrs. Holzman, it must of been in
the 5th grade or 6th grade. 5th grade. I remember Bill Munley, Jimmy Pruitt, all those kids, we would just
go say our little poems. It was a lot of fun. She was a drama teacher.
BH - None of my children ever had Mrs. Scofield.
Moderator - Yes, well she married and left.
BH - I knew the Scofield's, they lived over there by us.
Moderator - Oh they did, I see... You know, Mrs. Holzmann lived to be 100 or 120.
HP - Well, my great grandson will be in the call of A & M, Class of 2017.
Moderator - Is that right?
HP - And that is the year I'll be 100. So I'm planning to go to his graduation exercises.
Moderator - I would too.
HP - Well, this is my great grandson.
BH - Well, he's just six years old, he's starting the first grade this fall.
Moderator - Do you remember Miss Eleanor Hanover and she became Mrs. Nance?
• HP - Oh yes, sure.
BH - Yes, I knew the name.
Moderator - My brother told me all the boys were in love with Eleanor.
HP - But I know we went with, it might of been the first trip that the Aggies, 1st traveling Aggies in 1966,
they were the Nance's were on that trip with us.
BH - Nance, None Nance he taught history and took the whole outline...so they called him Nose Nance.
Moderator - Is there anything else you'd like to add about school or other suggestions are the enjoyable
part, the textbooks, the size of classes, things like that, as parents.
HP - Well, one thing, I'll never forget they say forgive and forget, but I just cannot do either one hardly.
For the architect that design this building "Caudie, Rowlett, and Scott", they got world renown
recognition for this building. But no other building, they went to San Angelo, built a building there, but
San Angelo School had money, they air conditioned the buildings. Here it was all windows, no air
conditioning, sit down over there. It's not this building. No it was over here.
Moderator - I was thinking it's the one that was torn down.
BH - It was the high school.
HP - The high school that's right and I never will forget when they had the open house and we were in
• and the only thing that would divide the rooms was a chalk board.
Moderator - I taught in that building.
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HP - And they'd sit at those windows and just day dream. You know all that if you taught there. And the
one's that were in the back , of the room next to you heard you more than they did their teacher.
Moderator - They finally put partitions up between the classrooms.
HP - And how they got by, they build it, they left us with no money to landscape it, no money to buy
furniture.
Moderator - Very interesting information but about when was this that that was going on.
HP - That they had open house.
Moderator - That was not this original building, it was later wasn't it?
HP - It was that new modern thing setting over there, with windows. The auditorium was this round thing,
it's till there, I guess it still links. But then they were recognized as Paris and everything for that building.
Moderator - Do you know who Art Bright is, the math teacher?
BH - Who?
Moderator - Art Bright, he said he was coming through College Station, he said, "College Station, that's
where they built that school I heard so much about." So he came over here and talked to them and ended
up coming here for years and years and years moved here. But that's how he knew about College Station
was the building.
BH - I never thought it was that great.
HP - Oh, I never did either, nobody else.
Moderator - The people that used it thought it was terrible but it got lots of...
BH - Period where it was one of those open schools they called it. And that was that period, wasn't it?
They had that one grade school in Bryan like that. I didn't teach in that school, thank goodness.
HP - The teachers didn't even have a place to put their purse.
Moderator - Is that right?
HP - I mean, you know.
Moderator - I was only there one year and I moved over to the new high school.
HP - But I just got mad ever time I passed by it and I thought there went all my school taxes, on that.
Moderator - Now it's torn down.
HP & BH - Yeah.
BH - Well, what are they using that building for anyway? They closed it in down at the bottom, didn't
they?
HP - Yeah, they redid it. I think.
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BH - Junior High.
HP - I don't know.
Moderator - Another thing it's asking here is how many months for summer vacation or what was the
school year, or length of the school year?
HP - That's one of the things I just have written down. That school usually started in September. And
they would get out at the end of May.
BH - End of May.
HP - End of May.
BH - I think they still do that.
HP - I think they still do too, but school starts in August.
Moderator - And was it air conditioned?
BH - Oh no!
Moderator - And was it hot?
• BH - I never taught in and air conditioned building. I taught `till 1970.
Moderator - How did you meet?
HP - When we first moved here, we didn't have air conditioning, only window fans.
BH - Now it bothered her in my house when I was upstairs. But the downstairs didn't.
HP - Oh, and the band. The high school band. `Cause I remember we lived next to Earnest Tanzer and he
was big in the band. But the band didn't have more than 20 people. They had no uniforms
Moderator - No uniforms ?!
HP - No uniforms. And to see it today is really remarkable.
BH - Well the whole school is. I think they have the best school in the State of Texas right now.
HP - Oh, yes!
BH - Have to put it up there. Well, when my children were gone, they have like princton one year. Physics
another. They just didn't, It didn't make it like that. It's always the best school. Of course, the kids are the
years. Wherever they do to go to school, college they do well.
? - You know I remember when I was in the ninth grade, it was after the 2nd World War. And there were
few teachers who couldn't stand up who could teach, because they were desperate for teachers. And they
didn't have an Algebra teacher for the ninth grade. So Mr. Bunting, the Superintendent. He was the
• Principle then, unless Mr. Richardson was. Anyway, Mr. Bunting taught the Algebra `cause he couldn't
find a teacher. And the children, including myself, didn't do very well. I didn't know what was going on.
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And so he got Mrs. Blumbing to come in to finish the year. And it just. And it just, opened it up.
Suddenly, oh, that's what he was talking about.
BH - He's never taught it before.
HP - Probably not, he just had to go in there and do that. And that's sort t of the situation. I don't know if
it was during the War, but after the War. It was hard to get teachers.
BH - Well, I'm sure everybody had trouble during the war.
Moderator - Would you like to take a brief, for a few minutes, and then, we'll think about some other
things?
HP - That'll be fine.
Moderator - Let's do that.
Moderator - After a little break, we're back again. And I think it would be interesting to talk about the
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Parent Teacher Association. Projects they did. And how they worked with teachers as parents. You could
tell us about that.
BH - I can't. I have no experience with that. I don't. I'm not crazy about the PTA.
Moderator - OK (laughter)
• HP - I can't remember what it's called. Can you remember what it's called?
BH - It wasn't the Parent Teachers. It was the something, Parents, something.
HP - But we were in it. And, I know when we got out, Marion Recrivtere, a Lou Cashing, to join and be
president. What ever year that might have been. Lou Bergious Clashing.
Moderator - OK. She was in my room in school.
HP - Oh, really. But I can't remember too much about their activities.
Moderator - But the parents did take a big role in the school.
BH - They helped out with a lot of things. I was a room mother. And we did a lot.
Moderator - What did the room mothers do?
BH - Well, we had a little, tea some times. And brought
Moderator - You'd come up to school to celebrate the birthdays?
BH - Bring some cake and some punch. And the last day of school.
Moderator - Did you do anything for Christmas?
HP - Other than holidays.
• BH - Other than that, yes we did! They had a Christmas tree under there. And they did that. Same thing.
They had a Christmas in the room. And they decorated it themselves.
14
HP - Made decorations. I remember that. Made chains of of, uh, paper.
BH - You, you, you use the gold and silver paper. That's shinny.
HP - Christmas plates.
Moderator - Christmas, yes. I see my Grandma I remember that. And, and then they would have in
the music department. They had a good music department. With Bob Boone. He was the, he was the head
of In high school. He was the head of the....
BH - Music department.
HP - Music Department.
Moderator - I didn't realize that.
HP - Yes. We taught him all he knows.
(laughter)
Moderator - I can remember doing an operetta in the 9th grade. We did it on Friday. And it was the
silliest thing, and we did it through.
HP - And one act plays. They had plays.
BH - Remember And went to to state with their one act plays.
Moderator - So they went to state meet for plays?
BH - In one, one year I know.
Moderator - Well, uh, did they have the sort of things they have now with other academic activities, as far
as state meet. Like in that.
BH - We just had spelling matches.
Moderator - Spelling. Did they go all the way?
BH - Yeah.
Moderator - I guess
BH - I remember them having some.
Moderator - Um. Course they had all the scores, had, they had other scores.
HP - I'll never forget, this kind of senior trip.
Moderator - Oh.
(` HP - They were coming back on this bus, cutting up and having fun. And the senior dance was that night.
fir And Comfy hit his teeth across the handle of the seat in front of him,. And knocked out his teeth.
15
Moderator - Ouch! Oh, so that was permanent loss.
HP - That was permanent loss. I'll never forget it.
Moderator - So school busses are not just real safe.
HP - Well not when you cut up on them. But they were just having a good time. But I guess they did about
all the same things that
Moderator - Do too.
HP - Do now.
BH - As far as I can remember they did.
Moderator - I remember that when we went to school on the campus, when I was in the 1st grade. I can't
remember to the first 2 grades or one. But I know when we came over here and I was in the second grade,
we had 2 second grades. Two different rooms. And we had 2 3rd grades when I was in the third grade.
And after that we had, uh, in the 5th grade. Ooh, that's hard to remember.
BH - I had skip to in the 5th grade when...the in was there.
HP - About 250
BH- At times you had one of them.
HP - Did she?
BH - And didn't Miss A, talking marry, about the baseball team. What did they move?
HP - She taught 6th grade.
Moderator - Oh, really?
BH - Uh, huh.
HP - Now I know Betty Moon as a daughter because she taught at high school for along time. I was there.
BH - Her mother taught. My daughter was in the sixth grade.
HP - I didn't know that, I remember what I made, this for my Mother. Maybe means Mother.
BH - I can't remember what they want.
HP - Oh.
BH - I just can't
HP - I have met her several time and I should know her name but it's just. But we had several different
teachers.
• BH - And when I was just. A slip had a class for teachers and I took her class. And Wally Lou and Betty
were in that class.
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HP - Oh, really.
BH - They weren't married. They married that fall.
HP - Uh, huh.
BH - I think that's where they met.
HP - Might have been.
Moderator - Wally Moon was the baseball player.
BH - And he's coaching now. He came back here and stayed three or four years. And got this coaching job
in college somewhere. So they went to
HP - And then they moved back here because he
BH - They're not here now.
? - Oh, they may have left since then. But anyway, she and I taught together for quite a while.
BH - She's been here off and on. Two or three months since their marriage. And her mother.
HP - What's her name?
BH - Her brother was three and moved away from here and moved up close to Amarillo somewhere.
When But her mother taught sixth grade. Cause she's I mean her mother taught sixth grade.
Moderator - I think your story about the Hewis is interesting. And a big part of this.
HP - OK.
BH - About the blonde hair.
Moderator - About Professor Hewis. Their house was on campus. And when, uh, it was on campus. It's on
a suffix now. Uh, I understand. That Mrs. Hewis was an excellent seamstress. And what she did was she
made those long ball dresses, ball gowns. And had a bundle of them in her closet. And the girls would
come on campus to dances that the Aggies would have. And, um, they would get to sleep on her porch. On
the back porch out there on the upstairs of her house. So she never had to bring their dresses with them.
BH - I'll bet that's fascinating.
HP - I didn't know about the.... I stayed with the Munnerlyn's. Ford and Lil. And it was at the time that
she was writing "The 12th Man".
Moderator - That she wrote the 12th man.
HP - And she also wrote the A &M Consolidated High School songs. When I was dating Marion (1939-
40) and came to A &M on weekends, I stayed in the Munnerlyn home (107 Lee Street). At that time, Lil
was wrting "The 12th Man". But she came, when I came in she's say, "Now sit down and listen, what do
you think about this ?"
Moderator - Would she?
17
t ar HP - And she would play parts of "The 12th Man". And then I was just so proud of the fact that I knew
her. And what she was doing at that time. That I was staying at her home.
Moderator - Did she write the Tiger Fight Songs. We are the Tigers, Tigers, Tigers. And also voices ring
out to Thee Hail CHS.
HP - That's nice. We should mention Lil Munnerlyn for doing that when she
Moderator - Her song
BH - Ford was my husband's commanding officer. When he was a sophomore and Ford was a senior.
HP - Well, I know if it hadn't been for Ford. With his insurance Corporation. His insurance business. We
wouldn't have been able to get married.
BH - Oh really?
(laughter)
HP - Because Ford told Marion, `you just get me the boys. Bring `em to me and if I sell `em a policy, you
get a percentage."
BH - You mean in football?
HP - Anybody. Anybody that he could bring and sell
BH - Other than buy insurance.
HP - Insurance policy. And that's how we got money to get married.
Moderator - Oh, your husband sold the policies for Mr. Munnerlyn?
HP - No my husband made the contracts.
Moderator - Oh, I got it.
HP - Marion brought the boys to him. How we manage in this world.
Moderator - Isn't that the truth?
HP - But let's see, what else you got on your list.
Moderator - OK, um.
HP - Crepe myrtle story.
Moderator - Oh, the crepe myrtle story.
HP - Oh, the crepe myrtle story. Well, this really wasn't connected with the school in a way. But it was
Hershall Burgess was president of the Chamber of Commerce. And another one of my projects , I could
just see Texas Avenue lined with crepe myrtle's. So I presented it to Hershall and he got the money. To
pay for the crepe myrtle's. And it was my job to see how many it took. And, and how far apart to plant
them. So I got the highway department. They told us to plant in 20 feet apart, that that would make a
show as you went down Texas Avenue.
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t or BH - Ain't that the truth.
HP - And then each corner we'd planted a redbud tree to bloom in the spring. And the entrance of each
street. To bloom in, in the spring. And then the crepe myrtle were "water melon red" crepe myrtle's. And
so we got all those planted. And that was the first indication that the city was interested at all in what
College Station looked like.
Moderator - Well that's wonderful.
HP - But before that, you know, they could not take any interest in that corner that we cleaned out or
anything. And so they were so proud of those crepe myrtle's, they watered them by truck up there and
watered them. But then when it came time to prune `em. Some thought they ought to be trees. So they
would prune them from the bottom. Some thought they out to be shrubs. So they cut them off at the top.
(laughter)
Moderator - Oh.
HP - So, but anyway, As far as I can remember there was one year especially that they were absolutely
beautiful. And seems like ever since they were struggling.
Moderator - What are they doing with them now? Are they preserving them? As they widen Texas
Avenue.
BH - I don't think there dead now.
HP - They even called me to see because the people that owned business that were in front of their
business, they were told not to touch them.
Moderator - Oh.
HP - And so, a number of years when they were talking about widening Texas Avenue, they called and
said the college was going to transplant them over on their side. Now I don't know if that really happened
or not.
(Could not understand)
Moderator - Well, that's supposed to be a hike and bike trail right in there.
HP - Oh, is it?
Moderator - Right before the university.
HP - Oh.
Moderator - So I imagine their coming back.
HP - But along with planting and all the oak trees that are along George Bush Drive right now in front of
the school, that was another one of my projects.
Moderator - Wonderful!
• HP - That was with the, I don't know if it was the Rotary Club or the Lions Club, one of the Clubs, might
have been Rotary, but they purchased the trees and we planted them, well they're pretty big trees now. But
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I know at first they said don't prune them, don't do anything to them for 2 or 3 years and then shape
them.
Moderator - So that's quite a contribution from the looks of how it started.
BH - Another thing, there was a nursery here, a year or two after, they'd put those trees on special, like
five for $25.00. And I bought some and I know all my neighbors got some, and we all have, and they
wanted Bryan and College Station to be the...
Moderator - Crepe Myrtle City.
BH - Yeah, the Crepe Myrtle City.
HP - I remember that.
Moderator - And Brazos Beautiful still claims that.
HP - I just kind of claim how it started.
(Could not understand)
HP - It was really amusing that College Station took such pride in those Crepe Myrtle's. They wouldn't let
anybody touch them. And they, if you wanted, if they were in a driveway or in the way you had to get
permission from them to move them.
Cor BH - You know, I've had some come out, some other ones that I've already transplanted, and they'll have
some little ones come up that can be transplanted.
Moderator - Do you know what year they were planted, about?
BH - It was before I planted mine, and I've had mine about 10 years.
HP - Oh, it's been over 20 years. More than that.
BH - Well, mine might have been 15. I just can't remember.
Moderator - Cause this all happened in the ...
BH - But mine are not as pretty...and I got them when they had them on special.
HP - Well, Mr. Mucka, Shady View Farms, furnished the Crepe Myrtles.
Moderator - Oh, he furnished them?
HP - Well, no he purchased them for us. Special for us. And he, the highway Department told us where to
put the holes and he did the planting.
Moderator - Oh, he did?
HP - Mr. Mucka.
Moderator - Was that North of Bryan?
HP - Yes, Shady View Nursery.
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BH - I bought some.
HP - And they've got good plants.
BH - But they weren't the ones that I think it was, I don't think that nursery is here now, but they had
them on special that year so I bought mine.
Moderator - Now, what other topics can you think of that we can talk about that would be little bits of
history of our town?
BH - I don't know but it sure has changed since I've been around.
HP - It sure has.
Moderator - Do you know how big it was in `36 when you came here?
BH - Our house was the 4th house on our street.
Moderator - It was?
BH - Yes.
Moderator - I wonder what the population of College Station was.
HP - 1,500.
BH - I don't think it would be that much in `37.
HP - Cause we never knew whether to count the College or to separate them.
BH - That's right.
HP - And to this day I don't know.
Moderator - I don't either. I don't know if they count them or not.
BH - Well, I think they do `cause they got 42,000.
HP - On campus.
Moderator - Yeah.
BH - And down there on that thing it says our population is somewhere around 60 or 70 thousand. I
haven't looked at this lately.
Moderator - I haven't either, no.
BH - But it's, if they counted the college, it would be over 100 thousand.
Moderator - But only about 10,000 live on campus. Is that right? And the rest of them live out in the
L ir community, so I think they are being counted.
BH - So I guess they count some of the ones.
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Moderator - Some of them.
BH - But they don't ever count the ones on campus.
Moderator - Well, did the Aggies ever come into the schools in any way or help or was that totally
separate?
BH - They did a lot of nice things.
Moderator - I mean back when your children were in school.
BH - Yeah, some of the athletes would come over, especially the ones that were majoring in physical
education, and they would help with their athletics sometimes.
HP - We got their old uniforms.
Moderator - Oh, you did? For football?
HP - For football.
Moderator - The old Aggie's uniforms?
HP - Uh, huh. Uh, huh.
Moderator - That was convenient. It was the same colors.
HP - That was because they couldn't afford them.
BH - Well, you know what they do now? Once a year they send out this, or put it in the paper, that the
Aggies will help anybody in the yard or in the house.
Moderator - Oh, yeah.
BH - And I got 6 of them and they planted my garden, set out my shrubs, this year.
Moderator - The Big Event.
BH - This is the third or fourth year, oh, it's more than that. I helped a little boy go through school, here,
and he came here in, huh, `88 I believe and he introduced me to that.
Moderator - Yes.
BH - He was in charge of it one year and I've had them ever since. And I gave them their lunch and last
year they didn't even, wouldn't even stay and eat lunch.
HP - I always bake them a cake and some lemonade or something.
BH - Well, I just fix sandwiches and salad, and I made a pie. They ate. But now they say they all gonna
meet somewhere.
Moderator - Yeah, that's what they do. Someone...gives them their lunch.
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L . HP - I remember way back when I was in school here as a child, the Aggies were just wonderful. You
know, everybody just loved the Aggies.
BH - Well, just look at the Aggies. Especially the ones in uniform.
Moderator - Yeah.
HP - But of course, the high school boys didn't like the Aggies.
Moderator - Oh, really?
BH - Mine did.
HP - I mean the high school boys.
BH - Yeah, I remember that.
HP - Now they resented the Aggies being here. And a lot of the parents would not let their daughter date
Aggies.
BH - I didn't let my daughter date Aggies until she was a senior in high school. A...she could date.
HP - Yeah.
BH - I know folks...did the same thing.
Moderator - Well, we can keep talking or
BH - We can keep bringing up different subject. We all have something to say.
Moderator - Yeah. I remember that you were saying one time, Helen, that you helped to get the streets
paved, or something.
HP - Oh, now that was another big deal.
BH - Was that when we got them curbed?
HP - What did Francine, is it Francine?
Moderator - Yes.
HP - What was it you asked me? If I was a
Moderator - Activist.
HP - Activist.
(Laughter)
HJP - She was a rebel rouser.
C or Moderator - She was, wasn't she? She was always stirring up something I guess.
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C oo HP - You know, talking about the street without curbs and gutters, and everything, and so that was
another project of mine to try to get something done and Marion was on the council, so he knew that it
could be done without raising taxes. I don't know what procedure, maybe they have a general fund like
they've got now. I don't know, but anything we don't want but the city wants, they go to that General
Fund and get it. But anyway, uh, so I started out, they did Lee Street in College Station. The nicest street
and homes and everything. So then, we had to do, we had to, if you lived on that street, you had to get the
petition signed, get 80 %, or what ever it was of people that would agree to ...paid 1/3 in front of then
home - City paid 1/3 for Center.
BH - The street came next, we do the same thing.
HP - Bit I remember Gib Gilchrist, was he president?
Moderator - He was at one time.
BH - At one time.
Moderator - He was dean of engineering.
HP - Yeah.
Moderator - For a long time.
HP Well, his remark was he wanted College Station to stay the same little town.
Moderator - Oh, really?
HP - And I said, " But, Gib, we cannot stay the same. We either go forward or we go back." And Mayor
Langford, he didn't like the ides of the curb and gutter, and so we had a little get together with Mayor
Langofrd, and, but anyway we finally, I don't remember when Fairview Street, the street I live on came in,
but I know Mr. & Mrs. Poor lived on that street and they were the ones that got the street petition signed
to do Fairview Street.
Moderator - Is that P- O-O-R?
HP - Uh, huh. Or is it with an E?
BH - Jimmy Poor.
HP - Jimmy Poor and wife Melba.
Moderator - Does it have an E on the end of it?
BH - No.
HP - No, just P- double O-R. But they were he ones that got the, got enough signatures for Fairview Street.
And then it
BH - I was trying to think when they did... Street. I can't remember.
Moderator - But the street was paved, wasn't it?
HP - Well, kind of.
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BH - Kind of. It had those jagged edges out there you know and your yard didn't...and we had that ugly
part along in from of the yard.
Moderator - Uh, huh.
BH - Between the yard and the street.
HP - And if you had grass growing
BH - But they curbed it and paved it and it looks a lot better.
HP - And now we have drainage problems.
BH - In some parts.
HP - But we're gonna be taxed for it.
Moderator - Do you think Lee Street is the first one that was curbed and guttered?
HP - Seems to me like it was.
BH - I think so but ours came, right, when they got through with that they started on ours.
Moderator - I was just thinking we lived on Walton Drive.
HP - Oh, well.
BH - Now that's a different addition.
Moderator - And the people on Walton Drive would probably, seem like they would
BH - Did they curb it when they first
Moderator - No, it was curbed.
HP - I don't remember about Walton. When it came into the picture.
Moderator - Probably later.
BH - It seems like they just started and just kept going until they had all of College Station curbed.
Moderator - Yeah.
HP - But when I bought my grandson, Kyle Pugh, Mrs. Ltanzer's house at 305 Fidelity while he was
going to A &M, so I told him, well he had to get signatures and, uh, and he got them and we took them to
the City Council meeting, and they approved it except they were just going to do that one 300 block of
Fidelity.
Moderator - Oh, my gosh.
HP - They were just going to do that one block. And I said, "Why don't you start at Wellborn, and come
up to where Fidelity stops at Fidelity, I mean, on Fairview?" Well, he, well, that means we have to get
Nirr more signatures. And he said, "Well, that's no problem.
25
Moderator - They all wanted it.
HP - Yes. But they were going to do, pave and gutter, curb and gutter, one
BH - Do both of your grandchildren live there?
HP - No, just one.
BH - Just one.
HP - Just Kyle, my second one. My first, "King ", one lived in Jody and Satch Elkin's home. I bought that
home for my first one. So, anyway, I thought that was so funny that they were just going to pave one
block. But I think that was a great improvement to get curb and gutter and...
BH - It really was. That's one of the best things they've ever done.
HP - And then remember we had that gravely stuff, or dirt, or whatever it was between the edge of the
street and our yards, and if you let your grass grow to the street, I'll never forget one day that they came
down with a thing cleared it all off.
Moderator - They scraped the grass off?
Moderator - What do you think of the historic markers that are being placed on some of the houses?
HP - Well
BH-
Moderator - Yeah, you know Mrs. Reynolds has one, the Reynold's house has one.
HP - And the Lancaster do.
Moderator - Lancaster's do and Mrs. Gates house got one last year.
BH - That house was there when we moved there, 1936,... house was, Mrs. Martin lived behind back there
too and somebody in the chemistry department lived across the street. I believe they were the only house
on `cause we were the 4th house on Pershing.
Moderator - Luza?
BH - On Pershing.
Moderator - Pershing, yeah.
BH - They're were just 3 streets in our neighborhood.
Moderator - Yeah, your house would be eligible for one of those plaques.
BH - I don't know.
Moderator - I bet it would if you're interested.
BH - But you know, you take a dozen of those houses out there now, they've redone them and put
$200,000.00 in them and they're about $300,000, $400,000.00 houses now. There's some people named,
26
over on Suffolk Street, that bought that ladies house that was in the extension service. It was, I guess, the
cheapest built house out there. Probably cost her $3,000.00. They made a three story out of it.
Moderator - It's a mansion.
BH - They had nine kids. They needed it.
HP - I want to tell you something funny that, when we first came her permanently in 1947, uh, Hershall
Burgess was responsible for that because Marion was playing pro football with the Miami Seahawks. That
was just one year of the American League....
Moderator - OK.
HP - That lasted. Anyways, and Hershall always officiated, uh, in the Southwest Conference and he
always called the game for TCU and Miami. And he was down there and we were in Miami. He came to
see us and he said, "Son, why don't you move to College Station and we will work out some kind of
business."
Moderator - Oh, how interesting. I didn't know that.
BH - Hershall really did a lot for this town.
HP - He did.
BH - We had some, several dealings with him and he always was very pleasant and very good.
Moderator - Yes.
HP - Anyway, so that's what we did. And had no idea what kind of a business it would be or anything.
Well, they started buidling these, they called them pre -fab houses. And we built the first one at 307
Fidelity. And everybody in that area just was having a fit because we were just going to create a slum area
with pre -fab houses. Well, it ended up, uh, it was real nice. It's still standing today. And he, he built, one
on Timber who was the superintendant of the schools, Reidel?
Moderaotr - Oh, Taylor Reidel.
HP - We, we built Taylor, Taylor Reidel's home. And they're still living on Timber.
Moderator - Yeah, that's on
HP - And it was a pre -fab house.
BH - What's the difference in a pre -fab house and a plank house?
HP - Well, it's, it's one side, it's put together, it comes together.
BH - Oh, I see, yeah, what you mean.
HP - Windows in it and everything and they just brace the walls up.
Moderator - Our house on Glade Street was like that. It came out of Dallas. It was a Fox and Jacobs and
Jim O'Brian was building those houses. Do you remember that?
HP - Yeah, yeah, uh,huh.
27
BH - Where do you live now?
Moderator - On Glade Street.
BH - You still live on Glade?
Moderator - We've lived there thirty something years.
? - That was an interesting story. I've never heard that story before.
BH - You know her husband was quarterback on the 1939 national championship team.
Moderator - Right.
HP - On another team, and Hershall Burgess's son was Red Cashion.
? - I'm learning. I've only been here 2 years, I'm learning fast.
HP - Well, Red is so, he's so wonderful, that he gives Marion credit for being in officiating in the
national league. Because he did know the people to contact and, Marion knew Red was a good official.
BH- I think he's a great official. I really do.
Moderator - This will be his last year.
HP - Last year, 1996.
BH - What did he say he was, 60 years old?
HP - No, he and I were in the same class so he must be 64.
BH - He's older that that, he's 65.
HP - He's 64 or 65.
BH - He's going to be 65.
Moderator - Uh, huh. So you went to school with Mr. Cashion.
BH - Cause my daughter's 62 and he's two or three grades ahead of her.
? - Yes, when I was in the first grade, Red Cashion and Lou Burgess, who's now his wife were in my
room, and uh, Joyce Patranell.
BH - Was that? Anna.
? - Anna Jean was in my, and Nancy Reynolds who lives her .
BH - See all those lived there right by me. All of them .
? - Yeah, in that first place, but later the Birdell's moved here, and Dick Birdwell was in our class and he
and Joyce...
28
BH - Well...was in your class.
? - John Gordon Gate was in our class. Real sweet boy. And, uh...
BH - Was, uh, what's her name, Patranella, in your class?
HP - Joyce Patranell. Yeah. You know Joyce and Dick have moved back here now. And Joyce came over
to me one day at the Maroon Club and she said, "Do you remember Nancy Howell ?"
BH - I remember.
? - Lived on the campus there near us and she said, you know, Joyce told me this. I don't know, maybe
this shouldn't be
L
29