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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNorthgate Panel 2Interviewer: Debbie Jaseh Interviewees: Johnnie Holik Lil Sorrels Ann Hornak Debbie: What kind of business was your family involved in at the North Gate Area? Now for Mr. Holik I think that kind of a strange question because anyone who was an Aggie knows about Holik's foods but if you'd like to tell us a little bit about it, when the shop started and things like that. Holik: Well, the place of business is remembered by most of the Aggies as you say or other people who knew us it was located on the campus and the last place it was located on campus was in the building that is upper story of the old exchange store building right behind Eppright Hall. Debbie: Right. Holik: And huh before that, there was a wood building that my dad built before that exchange building was there. There was a wooden building that he was allowed to put up on his own on government property and huh it, well that was the original shop and that was probably in about 1895 or somewhere along there and huh it went through the war that way and after World War I was over. They moved another big wood building that had been used as kind of of a base change building on to that site and then the original building was demolished. Several businesses occupied that old wood building, there was Charlie's Mitchell Tailor Shop, shoe repair shop huh something else but I can't remember just what was there. In about 1931 I believe it was just about all the business moved off of campus except the cleaning and pressing shop that was operated by the ex student association so it was allowed to stay there. But when we moved, dad had a building built at North Gate. We occupied that building that was 1930 or 31, well it was about the time that we decided we were going to start making some books. Debbie: That was about 1931 that you moved off is that about the time that ya'll's business started Ms. Sorrel's Sorrels: No ours started much earlier than that my parents immigrated from Czechoslovakia. Debbie: O.K., where in Czechoslovakia? Ann: Moravia is the center part of Czechoslovakia and huh my uncle was here and he was in the tailoring business and my father went into partnership with him and we live in the back of the shop in a little house where we worked was on the corner of Tauber Drive and University and then we had our business there for quite a while and then when the shop was built in what Lil: July 2, 1932 Debbie: And your businesses were next door to each other then Ann: And it became the Uniform Tailor Shop. I don't know what it was called when we were in the little house, but the Uniform Tailor Shop is what it was called. Debbie: In the 70's, I was into history a long time ago and in the 70's I remember reading where the different 2 businesses were and when exploring the North Gate area, then, because I lived in the North Gate area, but I remember reading about the Uniform Tailor Shop. So the business, would you say the majority of the businesses that came from North Gate came from off campus of from on campus? They were originally on campus and then they moved off. Is that kind of what happened? Ann: I think that we were considered a part of on campus at that time but I don't know about the rest of them. Holick: North Gate at the time moved off campus, moved off the campus, it was a photographic studio, Sosolik Studio, and our...And I think the barbershops I'm not sure Debbie: What was the first business that you remember having or knowing about at North Gate? Ann: Uniform Tailor. Debbie: Your uniform tailor shop Ann: Yes. Lil: And the pharmacy, as kids, that was our favorite place to go. Debbie: Which pharmacy? Lil: I guess it was Aggieland Pharmacy, the one on the corner. I can't remember the name of it, but I remember as kids, our biggest treat was to visit daddy at the shop and be given a nickel and go to the pharmacy and have a Ann: Oh no, for me it was a lemon phosphate. Lil: Will you come much later 3 Ann: A double dip cone for a nickel. Debbie: And huh the street that your business is on what was the name of your street huh the first one Ann: It was Tauber Drive or Tauber Lane, it's called now. It was Tauber Road. Debbie: Do you remember why it was named Tauber? Ann: Yes, the Tauber's had a farm in back. Debbie: Ok, ok. And it was toward Bryan, would be where the Tauber Farm was. Ann: It was there for a long time. Debbie: And huh when you looked down the street, was the farm still operating? Could you see farmers? Ann: Oh, yes. We used to go there and see the pigs in the pig pen and chickens and the ducks. It was an operating farm. Debbie: And huh who were your business neighbors on either side once you moved to the place where your business was? Lil: The Holicks and then huh the Sosoliks and the Zubiks were across the street, but the neighbors to the other side, I guess was the pharmacy building. Debbie: Do you remember Mr. Holick? Holick: Well there was huh, I don't know about what year, but there was another building put up around the corner there that turn into a pharmacy and was operated as a pharmacy by different people for quite some time. It's now campus photo studio. Campus Photo. I believe it was on the corner of University and what is now Main Street and huh 4 that's huh and across the street there were a good many businesses that were in there. Later the cleaning and pressing shop was in there. Lil: Wasn't there a jeweler there - Preston Dobine Jewelers? Holick: Dobine Jewelers had a small place in there. Lil: Mackey's Cafe, Johnny, Mackey's Cafe, that cafeteria next to the shop, Mackey's. Johnnie: Yes, that came quite a bit later. Dorothy: Yeah, about 45, no, 40 something. Debbie: When did Lauderstein Cleaners remember, was that much later? Holick: They built a building adjoining ours. Debbie: When was that, do you remember? Holick: Do you remember Lauderstein building being there? Lil: It was Maggie's Cafe and then Lauderstein. Holick: It was Maggie's Cafe, the Lauderstein, that's right. And Lauderstein was there in 1940. Yea, it was somewhere around huh probably around 1935 -36, very likely, I don't know, that's just a pretty good guess. Somewhere in the right ball park. Debbie: How many people worked at the businesses in that area? Do you remember, were there a total? Ann: Well ours varied with the seasons because huh we had usually, they were Hispanic tailors, daddy imported from San Antonio usually and during the busy season there were 4, more than that really. 5 Holick: None of them had more than 2 or 3 employees, somewhere along that line. Debbie: And I imagine that varied with the season as well as it does now. There's more people needed during the school year then in summer when it slows down. And huh what kind of things did ya'll do for fun as kids growing up in that area? Ann: Well, skates were ours. You know I went to A &M Consolidated that was in the old stucko building. Our favorite thing was to be able to visit the shop, put on skates, particularly skating at the Y, but huh just usual things that kids do. We didn't have too many toys, we weren't very well to do at that time to say the least, but we spent a lot of time, practicing violin where I took lessons from Johnny's father. He was the first band leader and he used to spend Sundays with us, always have Sunday dinner and then my brother, my sister and I all took lessons from Mr. Holick. Lil: In fact, I still have some of the music that he's written. They were violin exercises. Debbie: And who wrote the music? Lil: Mr. Holick's father. Debbie: Tell us about your father. This is going to be a very special year since it's the 100 year anniversary of the Aggie Band. Holick: Well, a lot of it is pretty well known by a lot of people. He had some publicity where he happens to be and 6 the kind of business and things like that. But he came over from Czechoslovakia and huh when he was 17 years old he and one brother relocated on a farm in Kansas for a couple of years. The were hot... they had to stay out. They on this the farm was so large they even had a chick wagon. They'd stay our for 2 or 3 days at a time. They just got tired of that they hopped a freight train. Advertised somewhere other than near Orange, Texas and they thought they were catching the right freight train, something pretty close to it anyway. They got side tracked in Bryan by accident. That's the reason I'm here right now. And it so happens that he found an uncle on his paternal side that had a place of business here and so he decided and he found that they had a boot shop here... English name but he was an Englishman and he had a boot shop around the corner huh and old railroad station there and huh so dad got a job in the boot shop and his brother went on somewhere that's the reason he had stayed, just the chance that car got switched off. That changed the life of 10,000 people right there. Debbie: Yes, it did. Yes, it did. It's amazing how some little things like that can. Holick: Yea, anyway, he got in this boot shop as a boot maker in there. Well, uh, he got talked into coming out to put in a shoe repair service at huh at huh A &M College, who is the man that has a great big statue in front of the main building. Debbie: Sul Ross? 7 Holick: Yes, I can't think of names like that. Sul Ross was the one that talked him into coming out to College Station and he put in this shoe shop in 1891, that's our establishment. While he was there he was a musician, played the clarinet. He probably played the clarinet while he didn't have something else to do sometimes. That lead to attracting musicians that were there and he got to be the first band master and the story goes on from there about him being a band master. I could take a lot more time..., anyway, he was band master on and off while they hired a regular full time band master from time to time. There was something happening. He'd get drunk and they would fire him, kick him out and huh he'd get the job right back. He got the job back 3 or 4 different time and they'd pay him a little extra for blowing several bugle calls and so that's the reason he got established in College Station, Texas and that lead to later establishing that little wood building shoe shop right behind Jack Rawl Hall. Debbie: There really was a closeness almost a single community between people who were on campus and the business people as almost as if you were one and you weren't crossing the line. So many times these days we see that imaginary line on university drive where your either on campus or your off campus, but that didn't exist back then did it? Johnnie: Not really, I think there was a lot of course. Everything was a lot smaller in those days and there were fewer students and fewer faculty and everything else and 8 everybody got to know everybody real well and it got to be more like a unit on the campus of Texas A &M. Lil: I think that's the big difference: the size of the campus, the size of the community - it was just totally different back then. Debbie: Well I'm not sure if there's anything you left out or not. We're just kind of like I said, I'm not really gonna follow these questions huh. Lil: What was the name of University Drive before it was University? Johnnie: University Drive. I thought he did a pretty remarkable job of some of the things that he did huh. When he came over here he had some schooling... in the Czech language. He could really read and write the Czech language very well of course, but then he didn't know how to speak English, read and write anything in English. He had to learn all that all by himself. And anyway he... and he not only got to speak English very well but he got to be where he learned to read and write it too, all by himself. Debbie: I think there were a lot of the people that came over did that. I notice your parents came from Czechoslovakia as well. Was there a large Czech community in the North Gate or... Ann: Oh, in the North Gate. I don't know that there was so, but in Bryan there was. Debbie: In Bryan there was, and why did your parents come to Bryan. Did they pick it or did they wind up like Mr. 9 Ann: Well they first came to New York. My mother had a sister and they didn't care for New York so... Then mother also had another sister here in Bryan and so my father was trained in Vienna as a tailor and huh so and my uncle was a tailor and huh it was a natural thing for them to come here because both of them, brother -in -laws, were in the same trade and huh that seem to be was they had a business to come to, you know at that time, when you immigrated you had to come somebody to vouch for you financially and you had to be able to do some kind of constructive work and huh since my father was highly trained in the tailoring trade, this was a major place for him to come and they were specialists in the uniform making. My father was known all over the world for his uniforms. You know even during World War II, he got requests for uniforms all over the world and my brother told me something that I didn't realize that huh during the second World War, naturally everybody was trying to make a fast buck and so they increased the prices of their uniforms tremendously and of course they made officers uniforms. And I think at that time they were charging about $400.00 and my father remained at the same price that he had prior to the war and he made his uniforms for $81.00, the total package, until all of his materials ran out and he couldn't, you know, buy the material again for the same price, but he was a very patriotic man, very patriotic. 10 Debbie: The huh, you spoke earlier of a cafeteria named Mackey where you used to eat lunch at. Were there any other places that you used to go out and do things like that and Mackey's on the corner or Lil: No, next to us Debbie: It was next to you. It was on the north side. Lil: My little girl used to roller skate up and down there and she used to go in there and get water. She used to go in there and ask for Yo -Yo and he didn't know what she wanted so he would come over and ask me. She just wants a glass of water, but don't let her bother you. Debbie: And so ya'll keep talking about rolling skating. There were sidewalks and everything right from the very beginning then Ann: Yea, on the campus. Debbie: Ok, ok, and this was just kind of an extension. Now one thing I heard of was when the post office was built there. It was a CCC protest or a WPA project. Ann: WPA. Debbie: And some one has told me that there was a mural on the wall of the post office. Do you remember that or do you remember anything about a great picture on the side or the inside of the post office? 963 was the phone. Oh, I've noticed that in reading in some of the Battalions, there were phone numbers that were 2 digit and 3 digit phone numbers. So that was very common. They just added a new 11 number when someone got a new line, is that correct? Do you remember what your phone number was? Ann: I don't. Debbie: I remember seeing someone's phone number and it was like 17 and that was it. Lil: Probably the very beginning of the phone. Debbie: And I want to say that was maybe Waldrip or Lipscomb Pharmacy. I believe it was. It just said to dial 17 and Lil: And I didn't dial. Debbie: You just asked it. Oh. Tell us about the phone lines then. Lil: It was just huh. You know we had the stand up phones, yea. Debbie: You had a stand up phone? Lil: Just got the operator and ask for your number, very simple, very nice. You were always talking to a human, not a machine. Debbie: And do you remember the trolley? Do ya'll remember the trolley that goes into town? Lil: He does. Johnnie: Oh my gosh yes. I should say so. Debbie: Tell us about the trolley. Johnnie: Well the first one, the motor cars were gasoline driven and they were sort of open carts with curtains on the side, shielding from the weather sometimes. They had an engine like an automobile only in the front and when they 12 got to the end of the track, they had to have a turn table so that they could go out and turn the thing around and face it the other way. Tracks had to be made so that they could turn in Bryan and College Station. Well motor cars, of course, they burned gasoline and huh we liked the smell of gasoline somehow. Our home was located, oh I guess, three or four hundred yards from the track and huh very frequently when those cars came by we kids would run out there and try to get so we could smell the gasoline. Lil: Give him a high. Debbie: And where did the tracks run? Johnnie: To Bryan and College Station just passed the North Gate area in College Station where the terminal, there you might say, what you consider across the street from Sbisa Hall. Debbie: Ok. Johnnie: And in Bryan, they terminated near the old fire station, close to the county courthouse. Lil: And the tracks ran. We moved from College Station midway, I guess you'd call it. Johnnie: The had electric cars later. Lil: Yea, and the tracks ran between his house and my house. And I remember because we had to walk from my house to his house to take violin lessons. Debbie: And I understand there was also in the 40's, I believe, a bus station that was in North Gate area for the Trailways and Greyhound bus. 13 Ann: I think it was. It seems like it was just there on what is now University by the curve. You know you just went to that spot and that's where it is suppose to be. Debbie: Oh, because I remember reading originally it just stopped on campus, I do believe, and then it moved to the North Gate area. Tell us about the theater. I bet that was exciting for everyone when the theater opened, or do you remember much about that? Lil: We never been when it opened. Ann: Well, tell you what I remember, speaking of theater, is when King Kong came to what was that? Was it the student union and they showed that movie there? It was huh, huh. It wasn't the student union, what did they call it then? I remember it was a white stucho type building kind of an assembly hall. I think it was called Assembly Hall. I think that's what they called, no not Guyden Hall, and I remember our folks taking us. It was the original King Kong and that was the most terrifying movie I'd ever seen in my life. I was scared to even walk out of the building. But I don't remember going to the campus theater. Lil: Well when I was in grade school, I remember if you had a straight A card, whatever you'd get free passes to the movies and if you were an outstanding student, you would get free passes. Ann: And where was this? Lil: Well this was at the campus, but I don't remember it being built. 14 Debbie: Were there grocery stores in the North Gate area? What do you remember about the grocery stores? Where were they at? Did you go into Bryan to do your shopping? Lil: Yes. Debbie: You went to Bryan a lot to do your shopping. Ann: Yea, Luke Patranella. His brother had a grocery store. Lil: No, it was in the North Gate in Bryan. It was kind of around the corner. Then they moved to the East Gate. He did a lot for the community. I think he was the one who had the Easter egg hunts for all the school kids. I believe so. Johnnie: The old... later that huh on Ursuline Avenue passed Allen Academy and to... they ran cars, oh I guess, 7 o'clock. But those electrical cars were quite something. They were much larger and had motors on front and back so that they didn't have to turn them around everytime they got to end of tracks to go the other way. Debbie: How long did the trolley run? Do you remember when it stopped? Or did it run for a long number of years? Johnnie: I think during World huh huh it wasn't running. I think they discontinued along about 1932 -33 along about there. I'm not sure. And huh it had operated to it, seem to me, that it had operated for about 10 -15 years and then they started operating it again. And they operated for a year or so. I remember it was quite a useful piece of machinery, I tell you that. There were not too many cars that were operating. There were a lot, of course, but not 15 so many people had cars. There was a lot of walking done for getting from one place to another and getting there the best way you could. Debbie: You were telling me that you used to walk to Bryan with your daughter. Johnnie: She didn't have to do that, she just did it because. Dorothy: I didn't have to... Debbie: You did it for the exercise. Dorothy: Get my child out for a while. There wasn't any other form of entertainment. Go down to Kennedy Pharmacy and have a lime aide. Debbie: And huh what were the roads between Bryan and College Station, which were the first ones that were the first roads from North Gate area because North Gate was what was to become College Station at that time. Ann /Lil: In front of house there was a big ditch that always caught rain and then you had your tar asphalt cause everyone had to build their own bridge across the ditch, Dad had to build it. Debbie: And where was this ditch at? Ann: It is now what is 3500 South College. Debbie: Ok, ok. Ann: See that is what we moved to 3500 South College and at that time the road was paved and dad built the house the Ivy's lived across the street. It seemed like there was one other. 16 Lil: Well it come a small community very few houses rural and you had to bring in your own electric lines when that became available, build your own bridges, you had to build your own side roads when it was necessary to get to your house. Ann: We had a windmill. We didn't have city water. That water was cold and wonderful. Debbie: And what type of, where was the house at that you lived? Dorothy: We built a house on North Avenue. Holick gave us the land, he gave all of his children lots. Debbie: And did you have to build your own roads or did you have to... Dorothy: They built the road - gravel road - I like it great because, my heavens, you'd go out in the back yard naked, to hang up your clothes. You could hear cars coming from far away. I liked it down there. Debbie: Did you have your own well? Dorothy: No, we had city water. Debbie: Oh you had city water so there was city water to North Avenue. Ok, huh, how about the North Gate? What did you do for entertainment when huh you were at the shop? Dorothy: Played poker. Debbie: That sounds like a lot of fun. Dorothy: On Sunday, a bunch of us would get together, they didn't have ice boxes like they have now. We used to get an old wash tub, get some ice out of college, chopped it up in 17 some beer and just driving, and stopped wherever we wanted to stop, like an old vacant house, and go through it. We thought that was fun. Debbie: There's a lot of people that think that's fun now. The huh, huh, where did you huh you talked of your daddy having the material for the uniforms. Where did he get the materials from? Ann: From New York Debbie: They were from New York? And what about your shoe repair material where did he get those from? Johnnie: They came from what we call ... I mean there was a ... much larger supply places and they were located in Dallas, Houston, Austin, and huh the materials that we were able, the materials that we used came from manufacturers all over the nation, ... different things like rubber heels and soles and thread all various things. Debbie: Ok. They came to you then to sell. Johnnie: They came by train and they were, usually, they were decked out as real gentlemen. Debbie: The huh one thing I know now days when we go in to purchase things and so often when we pull out that plastic credit card and I know $85.00 having been an army officer is very inexpensive for a uniform, but the $400.00 I did not bat an eye at because I remember very easily spending at least $400.00 right away. So I know people couldn't afford a lot of time to shell out $400 right away. How did you run 18 your credit system or did people pay cash? Did they save up? Lil: Well, I still, my family had one of the roll top desks they traded for a uniform. Debbie: They traded a roll top desk for a uniform and how about you, did you run a credit system or did you? Johnnie: ...but nearly everybody... A lot of people would ask for credit and a lot of them didn't pay their bills. It was very common to extend credit to just about anybody without any particular reference. Ann: In the depression era, you know people just didn't have that much money. Prices still just flabbergast me because I'm from a depression era and I'm just used to paying a nickel for a coke instead of a dollar. I have that kind of remembrance of that kind of upbringing, so to speak. So people were more generous in trusting getting credit and that kind of thing. Lil: Kind of being sympathetic to that persons life or problem. Ann: Right. Debbie: So your biggest seller in your father's shop was selling military uniforms? Ann: Yea, that was it entirely. I think it's interesting too that dad was quite instrumental in huh the style and color of the uniforms the Aggies wore. He and the Commandant would get together and decide what kind of uniform the officers would wear and all the accessories and 19 so forth, so that there was a little bit of style in there and, well as, yes, just strictly regulation. It wasn't just the kind of thing to do it by the law. Debbie: Did he make anything besides the uniform? Ann: No, it was the Second World War. I think he contracted with Bryan Field and made some of the airman's uniforms, but they didn't go beyond the uniforms and caps. Yea, they accessorized the whole thing. They didn't do the boots. They went to Holick's for the boots. Debbie: And what was your biggest seller besides the Aggie boots? Johnnie: Well, he ran a extensive shoe repair service and that was about it. And we made a lot ... and we did some orthopedic work. People with all kinds of orthopedic problems. One of our note worthy customers was Arlon Trague. Ann: I think that's interesting you say orthopedic. Huh, dad did sort of the same thing with uniforms. If one shoulder was lower, he built it up so that all the men had perfect posture. And I think they were very skilled in that lower hips and higher hips and shoulders and whatever. Debbie: And that's something that we don't think about these days. Your used to going in and buying your shoes off the rack and people don't get their shoes repaired as often. To make them last or you buy a uniform off the rack. I think the very few that would get custom tailoring now on a 20 made to fit item would be for a wedding gown or the military. Lil: During the fall when the Aggies came in for that semester, mother was working the shop too, and they had the patches. She would do the cross - stitching on the patches and believe it or not, the boys were very conscious of whether that cross - stitch was done well or whether it was not done well. Ann: Our whole family was employed in the tailor business. We as kids earned nickels and dimes by pulling basting stitches. Boy, when you had a quarter, wow. Debbie: Yes, tell us more about what you did in the shop as children. Ann: Well that was pretty much what we did at that age was pulling the stitches ... that would be brought home. They didn't have children in the shop because you know boys just didn't like having kids around when they were being fitted. but huh, dad would bring piles of uniforms home and we'd pull stitches so mamma would do the cross - stitch. It was quite a family thing. The fall rush was always overwhelming. It was going on into the night to get all of these things out. Lil: There's something ya'll might be interested in. I have a contract for the shop and it goes on and on for the sum of $3,124. When they built the shop, 3 yards of concrete was $27.00, digging ditches and laying sewer tile 21 $7.30. a really big show window for $6.30. So you can kind of see the difference in price today. Lil: And that was Murphy & Murphy Contractors. Debbie: That would be great. We would love to be able to get some copies of that. Lil: This is, I think that's when they leased the shop, see, because this is August 2, 1927, so they leased the shop before R.C. Smith and that was $350.00 a year. Debbie: Now did you build the building that your shop was in or did you buy it? Johnnie: My father. Debbie: Your father built the building and do you remember when the building was built? Johnnie: 1932, wasn't it? Is that when you remember when our building was put up ?' Ann: Yea. The contract for ours was in 1933. Johnnie: I'm glad to have that information because I kind of remember it wrong in 1931. Ann: The way it is now. Debbie: Could you turn it to where we could get a picture? Ann: Eventually if ya'll wanted copies. Debbie: The huh, the building of the shop now, from what I have read, the first City Hall, which was not City Hall city offices, were almost directly across the streets from your shops in the upstairs. Can you tell us about that? That must have been exciting when they started forming a city and... 22 Ann: I just remember it was there, but otherwise, I don't recall. Debbie: Do you remember about how the... Johnnie: Well huh, not much about that I guess. I didn't pay as much attention to it. Debbie: You were busy earning a living right? Johnnie: Yea, that was the main deal, we kept pretty busy. Anyway the Sosolik building. Sosolik had the photographic studio and above that, I believe, is where the city offices were. Lil: I think your right, yea,yea. Ann: One of the buildings that was across University, it would be right across from the present post office, the Aggieland Inn. Lil: It was on campus. Debbie: And that's kind of where I imagine that little parking lot is now and across from Sbisa and where some of the North Gate dorm area? Ann: Well huh, you could see it from our shop. Debbie: You could see it from your shop ok? Lil: That was where one of the first dorms was built. Ann: Yea, and that was the entertainment place you would have your meetings. As I remembered, it was not that large, but that's all we needed at the time. Debbie: And huh, when. So most of your entertainment and a lot of your grocery shopping you went to Bryan for or did you stay in College Station? 23 Ann: The grocery shopping, the movies, and riding around, going to Main Street on Saturday nights and parking and watching the people go by that was entertainment. Debbie: That was entertainment? Now do you remember the old bicycle way? Why, I believe there was a bicycle way. Why, at one time... Lil: You mean from where? Debbie: From College Station to Bryan. Is that the way you rode your bike? What were the roads that went from College Station to Bryan? Was it College Main? What we call College Main, the old Main Street. Did that go all the way to Bryan and were there any other streets? Lil: You know it's the same thing, sort of a side street. Debbie: Were there any other street that went into Bryan from the college area or was that the main street? Ann: That was the main street and it was gravel. Johnnie: That was a road extended from what is now Wellborn road and huh continued along the railroad tracks ... Old College Road. Right along railroad tracks until it reached, well it went on to Wellborn it cup off in Wellborn Texas, but it cut off into campus at huh a place just across from railroad station where that tower is and it enter campus there. Incidentally it may be of some interest to you ... became Cavett Street Debbie: Oh great. Yea, huh, now what was the most difficult thing that you remember: perhaps your parents, or you remembering about your business, perhaps getting it started, 24 and I am sure it was hard during The Depression to keep things going? How did that effect the college or was there a large decrease in the number of young men at that time or was it hard on the businesses or was it booming? It seems like the businesses here in North Gate started in the time when The Depression was at it's peak and for some reason College Station was growing. Ann: I remember my father, huh, well it must have been because otherwise they would not have been able to build the shop. Oh, so they were doing very well, of course, my father thought Franklin D. Roosevelt was the most wonderful man that ever lived because he felt that he got them out of The Depression and, huh, were able to build and to prosper more than they had prior. Lil: I remember when Roosevelt came here, that he drove around in the football stadium. And I still have this mental image of him then just as when he was then. Debbie: Do you remember when that was? Lil: I bet I was about 7 years old and that was about thirty years ago. Debbie: Did he come on the campaign train? Did he come on the train? Ann: I don't remember that. I just remember he was in this convertible with a hat on and waving to the crowd, making loops around the stadium. Debbie: Do you remember when Roosevelt came to visit? Ann: Do you Johnnie? 25 Johnnie: I remember when Eisenhower was here I rubbed shoulders with him in the crowd here in the football stadium. Debbie: Did ya'll go to the football games when you were young or did you Ann: Knot hole gang got in for a quarter. Debbie: Got in for a quarter? And where did you sit as a knot hole gang? In the horse shoe? That must be quite a difference because now it's $25.00. Ann: Well, you know in fact, I think that our tickets, kid's tickets, were 10 or 15 cents. I don't believe that we would have gone for 25 cents. Lil: And I think our tickets came from the school. Debbie: From Consolidated. When you went to school if you wanted to. When we see now, when there is a football game, there's this great influx of people into the town. Were there many visitors that came in for football games or for different things into College Station? Lil: I remember we'd always have the home guest. I can't remember their names, but I think he was a chef. And they always brought this wonderful food. Big tins, I can't remember their names. Debbie: Where did they come from? Lil: I can't remember if it was San Antonio or Austin. San Antonio, I believe. They were friends of our parents and they'd always come in for football games. 26 Ann: Oh, and that was also the time, if it was an out of town game, Aggies would line up here on Texas in front of the administration building and there would be a line of Aggies from the Highway all the way back snaking around to the, what is the big white building called now? Debbie - the Administration Building Lil - ok and they'd very politely take turns and people going would always pick up Aggies they'd take as many as they could it was consider a real Debbie - Is that for the out of town games. Ann: Yea, they would hitch hike and then of course you'd pick them up on the road between Bryan and College Station, I remember when I was after I got my drivers license I would pick up Aggies, about 8 or 12, now can you imagine? Lil - and we had a doctor in Houston and I don't think we ever made a trip to Houston that we didn't pick up Aggies it was an automatic thing there were Aggies on the road and they were always there Ann - They were always polite and so nice. You'd be so happy to have them Debbie - So did a lot of the social life actually evolved around a lot of the things that went on at the college for example like the football games and things like that. Ann - I think so, pretty music oriented Debbie - What type of music events were there? Lil - We'd have some of the big band dance. Ann - But that was later, that was in the forties. 27 Lil - Yea, you didn't have a corp dance you didn't have a company dance, you didn't have any dance without one of the big bands. Ann - Usually your Saturday nights you'd go to the drug store and have something to drink going to the movies and then go back to the drug store and have something to drink, then you had to go home. Ann - Curfew, my parents were very strict. Debbie - And what types of things do you remember from the 40's during the war years. Johnnie - Well during the war years there was lots of rationing going on. You couldn't make Aggie boots, so the aggie's started getting boots from their predecessors. They started selling their boots, they had to buy them from the guy that had graduate but we did have, we made all those boots in that movie "We've never been licked" Debbie - "We've never been licked' Johnnie - We made all the boots for the guys in the movies Debbie - I imagine that was a very exciting time when "We've Never Been Licked" when a movie company that came to town can you tell us or there anything that you remember about when the movie was made? Dorothy - My little 2 year old got lost. She got way up high on that thing where they took the picture from. Debbie - Where they took the picture from. Did everyone come out and watch the making of the movie or did they kind of make you stay away. 28 Dorothy - No kind of stay away, well they were right where the post office is, you could go watch but none of the rest. Ann - When was that ? Debbie - It was I believe in the 1940's Dorothy - 40 - 40 or 41 Ann - Cause I don't, well I guess I was in college, I went to Texas University. Debbie - Oh my goodness, how did you manage to do that? Ann -Will they didn't accept women at A &M. It was either Denton or Austin. So I picked Austin during the summer yea you did some but you couldn't Johnnie - celebrities pretty well busy with everything, we had just about all we could handle with local business around here, making boots, Aggies and the surrounding country side, Houston, Dallas & Fort Worth, customers from all those places, but like I mentioned a little earlier, we did some orthopedic work for Congressman Olin Teague, and we now have a thing we have in the shop, one of them is orthopedic shoes and case and so we just did all over the United State as far as that was concern we did get a good many English Riding boots from people located up East. They'd heard of us, made a trip down here to get measured and everything like that but none of them celebrities. Debbie - Do you remember your father ever making uniforms for someone 29 Lil - She remembers one, I remember one, his name is George Fearman I don't know if your familiar with him. He was a columnist for the Houston Post and a writer I think he's published several books, I remember him and you remember Ann - John Kimbrough - a star Lil - I know during the war they invited for other uniform there were some supposedly well known people, I can't remember them. They were outstanding people, the men, but I can't remember who they were. Debbie - So there was pretty much a thriving little community in North gate then, in itself and it really started in the late 20's early 30's I take it Johnnie - First I remember a place of business was a store we called Boyett Store. We call Boyett they called themselves B O Y E T T and it was a well known family in this area and there was a store there in North Gate and I believe it was the first place of business in North Gate. It was a wood building and they housed the first, I'm pretty sure, the first College Station Post Office. Of course they had the post office on campus which was faculty post office. I believe the first post office was in an old wooden building at North Gate. Incidentally there was a fence around the campus, there was a gate there, a steel fence some of that fence is still there I believe in places. But huh they closed the gates on that thing at 10:00 in the evening the guys that were left on the outside had to climb over or find somewhere to sneak back in. 30 Debbie: Was there some reason they had the fence around there? Johnnie: Yea because it worked kind of sort of like a curfew would work. Debbie: Ah it worked like a curfew would work. Well I can remember they tried that. I was in the first dorm that had women on campus and they did the same thing with us they locked the doors at 10:00 and you couldn't get back in which if it was 10:00 and the doors were locked you couldn't get back in you had to go and knock and tell them why you were late getting back during the week because they wanted you to be in by 10:00 so that they so I can see where we always wondered how they got the idea for locking everything up so evidently that was an original Aggie idea. Johnnie: You were mentioning about grocery store earlier that Boyett Store, we call it Boyett. It was mainly a grocery store, but they sort of had general merchandise store of it too but it was basically a grocery store. Debbie: Ok. Do ya'll remember that store Johnnie: No it burned Debbie: Oh it burned and do ya'll remember when it burned down, a long time ago. Johnnie: Let me make a wild guess I'll say maybe 1916 somewhere along there maybe earlier Debbie: And what were some of the first stores that you remember 31 Ann: Oh in the North Gate Area Debbie: That we haven't talked about. Do you remember any others. Debbie: Oh yea, was there a name I know it wasn't University Drive. Do you remember the name of the street or was it just a road number? Ann: It was just a street # Dorothy: Was it Sulfur Springs? Debbie: I don't think so, that was further down wasn't it? Dorothy: But right here at the North gate is was called something else Lil: and we can't think of it either Ann: Was it a highway even? Dorothy: No Johnnie: Seems like I ought to remember that but I sure don't. they had several things on Sulfur Springs Road but they Dorothy: I can't think of the way back then. Just a road Debbie: Just a road. Did it go all the way to Snook or to the Brazos River? Dorothy: I don't think so Debbie: Didn't go that far did it. It probably went to Wellborn Road where it picked up that gravel road Johnnie: It ended up in Wellborn road but huh that road to Snook that came much later that University Road that was just a dirt road and when it rained it got muddy. Debbie: ah hum 32 Joan: What about the churches were there a lot of churches as there are now? Ann: that Catholic Church was there. Debbie: it was St. Mary's Debbie: And the old St. Mary's is about where Subway and Kinko is now is that correct? It was one block up from where the church that is there now and I understand that was torn down in he 50's I believe. Ann: where the filling station is now Debbie: Where the filling station, right, where the filling station, that's where it was I had trouble I knew it was on that block somewhere. Was there any other churches beside St. Mary's that were in that area. Ann: Oh yea I can't think, remember, I don't recall. A Methodist Church in 1940. Debbie: In 40. And what about the Methodist Church. it was there in 40 as well Ann: Big white building, the tabernacle. Johnnie: A smaller church with a steeple on it. Debbie: But you all lived on campus before. Ann: It was considered campus, it was that Tauber Road and University Drive whatever it was called, it was a little yellow house. Debbie: What's there where the house? Ann: Banks I think yea Debbie: ok ok but its down Ann: And Tauber Road is still there 33 Debbie: ah hum I know where Tauber is. When I first moved here, after I moved out of the dorm I lived in the Casa del Sol apartments and so I walked Tauber Road to campus, many a morning. Johnnie: oh you did, Tauber Road, well where was your home? Debbie: oh no I lived in apartment when I was in the last few times and I got to know the roads quite well because I didn't have a car so I walked everywhere so I got to know North Gate quite well because that was my walking area. Johnnie: I guess you know that everybody knows that North Gate was laid out before the idea that Aggies would ever have cars. The streets were narrow and everything else it doesn't work the way it ought to right now Debbie: That's the way a lot of the places are they were laid out a lot before cars came and now every one wants to park on the street as well as drive Johnnie: Sometimes automobile and get it parked out on somebody's farm and then sneak out and drive a car on weekends and things like that, but if they ever got one them doing it he got kick out of school permanently. Debbie: Oh so you weren't supposed to have a car. Johnnie: No heck no. There were no exceptions. You were kicked out if you were sneaking a car. Debbie: Oh that would how late was this Johnnie: That was as late as 1925 -26 somewhere in there if not earlier of 34 Joan: I wonder if you could tell us Lil who was in your family Lil: Ok Anna & Josef Joan: Is that your parents? Lil: Yes, and my brother Josef or Joe and Anna Frances and Joan: Are you the baby Lil: Ah hum, Lilian Dagmar. Florance: Joe's full name? Lil: Vladmire Josef Joan: and while your parents were at work did your mother go most every day? Ann: No she was at home Joan: She stayed with the family at home and worked. Ann - At a later time she would occasionally go to the shop, but she was a homemaker. She was known through out the campus incidentally for making speeches about Czechoslovakia because very few people knew where Czechoslovakia was and what its history was and so the campus clubs and the Women's Club would always invite her and she had a full native dress. She would dress up and make talks to the children she went to the schools too, but mainly women's clubs She would translate phonetically you could see her English it was just terrific so that she would not get confused about words. Czech is a phonetic language so she would write the English phonetically and had no problem whatsoever. Lil - And she loved ... she did indeed. She was really a wonderful writer for the amount of education that she had. 35 Joan - Do you have any of her writings? Lil - Ah yes, I think I have a couple of articles that she published in the paper. Joan - Did she by any chance keep a diary? Lil - No, we still have letters during the war, post cards and letters and so forth. Joan - And then, Dorothy, what kind of a family did you have? Dorothy tell us about your family. Dorothy - You mean my children? Joan - Yes, who were your parents too. Dorothy - My parents name was Bucker. Bucker was my maiden name and when I married Johnnie, I had a 2 year old daughter and he had an 8 year old daughter and we have a daughter. Johnnie: Well thell them where you are from. Dorothy: I'm from Omaha, Nebraska and my whole family followed me down here. Joan: Well, how did you meet him? Dorothy: He was on the road traveling and, in Omaha. Joan: Why was he traveling? Dorothy: I guess it was during the depression and the shop wasn't... I don't know. Johnnie: I was a salesman for Catchford rubber company. Joan: And so you were a traveling salesman and you met this beautiful lady. Dorothy: Well thank you. Johnnie: After we met, we were married in about 3 weeks, weren't we? 36 Dorothy: About 3 weeks. Joan: And how long have you been married now? Dorothy: 54 years. Joan: A 3 week romance and 54 years. Dorothy: 64 or 54, 54 Joan: Did you work in the shop too or did you stay home? Dorothy: I worked all over the place too. I worked at the administration building, worked at the old Triple A, I was comptometer operator. They don't even have them now. Lord knows what it is. It was a calculating machine anyway. Johnnie: Those calculating machines that were invented during the last 40 years, I saw those expensive calculators and everything that they had and machines like that. I've seen several of them that were stacked up in warehouses in Houston that were 40 feet high and I guess they didn't know what to do with them. They thought they had to find somebody that could treat them under some kind of thing that they could destroy little cars with and stuff like that. I don't know. They cost thousands of dollars a piece when they were bought. Joan: And your children went to this school? Ann: To Consolidated? Joan: They went to school here, to Consolidated in this building or did they go? Dorothy: No. Joan: Oh you lived in Bryan. Dorothy: Yes. 37 Joan: O.k. Dorothy: My oldest daughter went to St. Joseph's and other daughter went to St. Joseph for awhile and then she went to that school on ... on ... there. Joan: Ross, no. Dorothy: My one daughter graduated from college. My other one wouldn't go, she went to merchandising school. And they both work at the shop. Joan: Do they work there now? Dorothy: No, just on Fridays, help with payroll and that's all. Debbie: Who works at the shop now? Johnnie: I'm the only one left from the family. Debbie: You're the only one left from the family that works at the shop. Dorothy: No, our 2 daughters. Johnnie: From my immediate family. I had 4 brothers and a sister and they're all gone now. I'm the only one that remains, what's left of me. Joan: Did you girls work at your dad's shop when you got a little older? Ann: Yes, but it was mainly letter writing. We learned to type, we did all the correspondence. Lil: We did that at home...women in the shop. Joan: I think that you all have done a marvelous job. We are so excited. Debbie: We are so excited. 38 Joan: We hope that we've got some good notes. taken much better notes that I have. Florence: We need to be sure we have your corrected list. Lil: If we have other documents and things that we don't necessarily want to keep. For uniforms, that type of thing. that kind of thing. Debbie: I'll tell you what, I... Let me cut this off. Florence has instance, patterns of the You know, they're cardboard, 39 I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. ?.. ._.. SO R N L L S Interviewee (Pl ase pr t) Signature of Interviewee Name Lt . SDCZ2 t3-5 Address 3(2A1.5 m V► V ) - 7 - 70 - 7 ) Telephone j Date of Birth 3 / 1 / 2 9!) Place of Birth 'RILiA,U T x• 1., Interviewer (Please Print) Signa ure of Intervie *er Place of interview List of photos, documents. mans. etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. D . ,/f Initial Date 2 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interviewer (Please Print) p Signature of Interviewe Place of terview List of photos, documents. maps. etc. Interviewee (Please print) Signature of Interviewee H AV,) ,`fog -3 / p - F- Name / � 7�vY1. Address - , / 7 (t c A - 1. ,vs1 - 0 k) Te Date of Birth Place of Birth rlpti sue - F - ro;) INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial 7/1 94 1 7 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. __JOHN kit L l ' rviee (Please print A / S ignature of Interviewee Interviewer (Please Print) X FYI a,K ll KJ JJZ._ Signature of Interview C 1 ' _ n Place of terview List of nhotos. documents. mans. etc. Name Address > Telephone Date of Birth 6 C t, 0 7 66 , Place of Birth z -e05 c oo. /3// CS ;f4 e- %v l 7 INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. In progress terviewer (Please List of photos. documents. maps. etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Print) Signature of Intervie crier Place of Interview 1)orp 0 y Interviewee (P1 a Signature 9 Interviewee 1/ .(o e print) Name Address /L(ay) ? 7,5 gfgy Teleiphohe Date of Birth /-//-/ Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. \ Date n Initial