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Home My WebLink AboutCampus Kids Panel 3February 18, Moderator: Interviewees: 1998 A &M College Campus Kids Kitty Worley (KW) Helen Thomas Perry (HP) Mary Bolton Eckles (ME) Rosalynn Williams (RW) Bill Lancaster (BL) Observer: Will Worley (WW) KW: This is Kitty Worley, today is February 18, 1988. I am interviewing for the third time. 98, not 88. This is February 18, 1998. I am interviewing for the third time, but this is the first time I have interviewed Mary Bolton Eckles, Helen Thomas Perry, Rosalynn Reynolds Williams, and Bill Lancaster. This interview is taking place in room 103 of the Conference Center at 1300 George Bush Dr. College Station TX. This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station TX. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Please each person introduce yourself so that your voice is identified, can be identified on the tape recorder. Mary, will you start? ME: Mary Bolton Eckles HP: Helen Thomas Perry RW: Rosalynn Reynolds Williams BL: Bill Lancaster KW: I think we have all passed that test and we will now begin. Remember there are certain rules that is that we can't say anything that is gonna hurt anybody and we also have to talk one at a time if that's possible. And if I go like this, you know I was a school teacher for many years and you all know what it is. So we'll start and go in order, but if you want to say something about the same thing, just kind of wave your hand and indicate it and we'll turn it over to you from time to time. Uh, I'll ask this question of all of you first. How old were you when you lived on the A &M campus? ME: I was born on the A&M campus in 1910. KW: And you lived here on the campus until? ME: I married. KW: Okay, Helen. HP: I was born here and lived on campus for 14 years. KW: And Rosalynn. RW: I was born and lived on the campus, I was born in Bryan, but lived on the campus from the day I was born. And uh, my folks built a house right off the campus on Suffolk and Pershing and I think it was like 1940, and I was born in 1926. KW: I see, and Bill. BL: Well, I never lived on campus, but uh, we built the first house off campus, in College Park residential area. I was born the 4 child of our, the 4 of 5. And our family had wanted 28 and of course we went to school on campus and uh, went to church on campus, and all 1 of the activities were on campus, so we were right there in the middle of it all. KW: Yes, uh I think you did say something about how many years. Would you like to expand on that? Tell us a little more about.... ME: Well, from 1910 to 1928, and then I moved back here in 1960. KW: I see. And Helen, is that house where you are now, when was that rebuilt? HP: Um, my parents moved off campus in `39. And uh, they built in College Hills, which was just opened across from the A &M entrance. And uh, I lived there until I was married, and then, I built next door to them and I still live in the house next door. KW: Well, tell us about the house where you were born and where it was. HP: I uh, have wonderful pictures of it and uh. The house went with the job on the campus. Uh, you were assigned according to your position in the University and what department you were in. So as children, we grew up knowing everybody on campus and what they did and we were always roller skating in and out of their offices. And we did really terrible things. Much later that house was moved... and it was across from the vet med. department on... BL: Uh, well, it's called Raymond Stotzer Parkway now, but it used to be University Dr. ha- ha-ha. HP: And uh, we got to keep up with who was in it for a while, but after it was moved we kind of lost track of it. But my parents home in College Hills was declared a Historical Home and its featured in the calendar as are some of the others here... BL: Yeah, three of the homes in the calendar here are represented right here. These three, so. KW: Oh, I think that would be a good time. Mary. ME: I heard your new house was built for you all. Wasn't it? I think ... you were the only ones that ever lived in it HP: I have pictures of our campus house it here, which you can see. And behind the houses were the servants quarters. Everybody had their maids' house behind their house. And uh, I sort of half grew up in the maids' quarters up and down the street. KW: Well, Mary, your house was close to Helen's house? ME: Oh yes...there was one in between. HP: One house apart. KW: I see. Do you remember who lived in that house in between? ME: Yes, the Conners. BL: A.B. Conner. KW: Oh, I see. And Rosalynn, what about your house? Where was it? RW: Okay, we lived on the street, I think it was Clark St., I'm not sure. But it was right between the drill field and Kyle field. The Shepardson's lived on the corner nearest Kyle Field, our house was next, Ide Trotter lived on the other side of us. And so, Bill maybe you know, this street, I think its called Clark St. And uh... BL: I think it is. RW: During all football games all the traffic walked right by our house and so we had great fun seeing everybody. And every other Thanksgiving my mother probably fed 40 people. All of the relatives and friends would come and walk in and eat turkey and dressing whenever 2 they happened to get there on their way to the game, you know... ME: And also, they had to use the restroom because... RW: Oh that was true. That was probably the most important thing... HP: And they parked in our yards and driveways. We were right behind Kyle Field. And your yard became just their parking area. KW: Mary, you want to add to that? Those those times? ME: No. No... We wished they had a bathroom... and then they came over for lunch and then they came back for sandwiches and cake before they got on the bus.... RW: And my mother loved it. I mean, you know, we always volunteered because we got to see everybody. All of our friends and relatives, you know. Open house. HP: Open house, it sure was. RW: Now, when my folks built their home, right a block off of the campus at Suffolk and Pershing. This is it, and it's been declared a historic house. And my sister's oldest daughter owns this house now...Tammy Harding KW: Oh. I thought that was a Tiner. Somebody named... BL: A Tiner's daughter. RW: Well, yes, cause Cassandrea Tiner Hager did the drawing, but the one says owner Ken Harding. Ken and Tammy Harding. Tammy is Nancy's oldest daughter. KW: Well, yes, that's right. RW: And we're real thrilled that they kept the character of the house and they have improved it a lot, modernized it somewhat. But, they still kept the character of the house and we're just thrilled its still in the family. KW: The George's lived there when we came. Coach George, you remember him? Uh, okay. Describe what, you've told a little bit about your house. Can you, do you want to describe your house uh, Helen? What it was made of? HP: Uh, when my parents moved here, from Alabama, there were 4 children. And then they had me, right away. And the house was very small, and uh, they had to build on the back of it they were trying to make it for a large family. So, they put a sleeping quarters and a big dining room across the back of the house. Uh, my mother was a writer and a book reviewer and she would bring all of the campus kids into the home to tell stories to and provided a lending library. RW: I remember that. KW: Mary, do you want to tell us a little bit about your house? Oh, and you said that about restrooms. Surely, they were just outside toilets right. BL: oh no... RW: Oh no...modern day... ME: ...All of them were men, no women. KW: Say this again. ME: Well, it was just an all men school, they didn't have restrooms for women. They didn't need them. They should have, but they didn't. KW: They didn't. But at your home you had an inside bathroom... ME: Oh yes, always, yes. HP: The wash was done outside in big pots. ME: And the servants quarters, as you had said, were behind all of the houses. KW: And did the servants, they lived there? 3 ME: They lived there. They lived there. KW: And we are still seeing some of those campus houses around town. They are only recently disappearing So, you can tell us a little bit about the style now that house that you built afterwards. RW: Well, now the one on the campus was a regular, what we called a campus house. And it had an E.B. Reynolds done on the front. Just kind of like a military house. KW: Sure. RW: Uh, reservation, you know, it was that sort of house. Frame. BL: Well, each name was stenciled on a tin strip on the front door. RW: Yeah, right. It was black with white lettering on it. BL: Black with white letters. Obviously a stencil. KW: Yes. And the, and the students could come and visit their professor it was a very... RW: Well, the main thing I can remember about students visiting was when they aired out the freshman. BL: yeah ha -ha. RW: And my father was very sympathetic. I mean we had many a freshman sleeping on our floor, living room floor... KW: Tell us about airing out. HP: They would sleep in our attic overnight. RW: Oh, poor things, they would air them out and they would have to go hide in trees or wherever. KW: Well what does air them out mean? BL: Let Will tell you about airing out. HP: If they caught them they would paddle them and a few other things. BL: April l$` WW: Well, about the time I came here in 1939, they cut out air outs. But, when they aired out the upper classmen said okay, you freshman air out. Which meant you had to find a place to live overnight somewhere in the dormitory and this is what you all are talking about now that they stayed in your attic. RW: They could not spend the night in the dorm. HP: It was right after yell practice, when they would always yell and carry on. And we always went to all of the yell practices. And at the end of the yell practice they'd say, "Freshman, air out." And you'd, move or you'd be run down. These boys just took off as fast as they could go. And they were being chased. BL: Where was yell practice? HP: At the YMCA. Steps of the YMCA. BL: The steps of the YMCA. ME: YMCA, yeah. RW: In those days they didn't have microphones and so I didn't know until I was grown the ugly words they were saying. Ha -Ha -Ha KW: That's wonderful. RW: You know, I mean you didn't know and they were using some bad words up there. KW: Now you can hear them for blocks. BL: Yes, Yes. 4 KW: That's fascinating. And how many rooms were in your house Mary? ME: I don't know, we had an upstairs and a downstairs and had two, two sitting rooms, and uh it's on.. BL: It's now Laura Lane. KW: Yes, it's where the English Prof. is living. ME: And I was born in the one two doors down. And we moved up here in 1918. KW: Well, was that a full attic? ME: We had upstairs rooms and my, my mother always kept them rented cause we needed extra money. KW: I see. Who did she rent them too? ME: Well, the Doak's lived there for thirteen years. BL: At least ME: But, before that Bess Gatlin and the girls who worked in the library. There was no place on campus for them to live and they, they rented the rooms upstairs. KW: When they came to parties or just any time? Were the girls staying there. I don't understand what you mean by the girl's rented rooms ME: Well, these, they worked on campus, but they had no place to live unless they lived in Bryan and they lived there and but the worked in the library. KW: I see. Now tell me a little bit more about the Doak's there and do you have the Doak's name because I think everyone would want to put that.... ME: Well, they, they lived there for thirteen years. KW: Is that Henrietta and ... ME: Doak, yes. BL: Clifton C. Doak KW: What was the `C. C. '? BL: Clifton C. Doak, C. C. Doak. KW: C.C. Doak - D- o -a -k. And they moved, I wonder how soon they moved off into that house on Pershing. ME: Well, they built that house, they moved from our house into that house. KW: Okay, and they lived fourteen years in your attic so to speak. Well it wasn't an attic.... ME: Well, it wasn't an attic, they had, they, they cooked and they had had, it was a three room with a bath. KW: Upstairs. But they looked like they'd be mighty hot up there because what goes between the roof and outside. They didn't have... HP: It was hot everywhere. KW: It was hot everywhere? HP: Oh yes, oh it was of course. BL: They they moved in about `39. And well then everyone moved off campus. KW: I see. I think did we get what street each one of you were located on? I think that would be good. I think you've said it, but let's do it again. Mary? ME: It was Throckmorton. Called Throckmorton or Quality Row. HP: Yeah, Quality Row. BL: <Laugh> HP: That's what it was called KW: We had that at the University of Delaware... 5 HP: Throckmorton RW: Okay, I think it was Clark Street, but it's where the Student Center is now. KW: Yeah. BL: Didn't you live for a time with the Dunn's like facing down... RW: Yes, and I didn't even mention that. Early on, we did. And we lived down the first street right across from the railroad tracks. BL: Yeah, it would be parallel... RW: The Dunn's lived on the corner...What were their names? BL: The Baker's.... RW: The Baker's...Yeah... BL: The Baker's were on the corner, the Dunn's, and then the Gabhart's lived there too. Yeah, and we were second or third from the corner KW: Bill, it might be good to, to, to say who he Dunn's were, the Gabhart's and the uh, the third family you mentioned. BL: R.J. Dunn, Richard J. Dunn of course was the band master at A &M for many, many years. And uh, he wrote the Spirit of Aggieland. KW: That's real impressive about the Spirit ofAggieland. HP: And taught the symphony in high school. BL: And the thing about Colonel Dunn, or Major Dunn, was when he first began he uh, taught the children of the public schools which met on campus. He devoted his time uh, to the symphony orchestra, even teaching. He taught us violins, and cellos and everything they had in a symphony orchestra. Which was a major part of the school program at the time. KW: And they could come to him uh, during the school day. I understand Mary, that they went to your house too for your mother to have music lessons. Do you remember that too? ME: Well, we, she rented one of the sitting rooms for, for uh, we had a music teacher. She came out from Bryan and taught. That was after Consolidated was there, which was in 1920. KW: But, and, that was in your home. And the music teacher, was her name Conway or something like that? ME: mmm - hhh KW: And she came .... ME: Out from Bryan and taught it in our house. KW: In your house, yes. HP: Bill's sister started playing harp for Major Dunn. And uh, was a wonderful harpist and played at my wedding. And is still playing the harp in Houston. KW: Really. And started with Colonel Dunn? HP: Yes. KW: Do you have anything to add to the music department? RW: No, other than that we lived next door to the Dunn's and they were my families best friends. BL: What did you play, what did you play in the orchestra? RW: I didn't play anything. HP: I played the violin. RW: I was not talented. Nancy, my sister, did. She played the drum. 6 BL: But you didn't play something? RW: No, I don't think so. HP: I played the violin. BL: ...Mary has a picture, a 1937 picture of people who, who were in the orchestra and I thought you were in the picture. KW: That picture was recently in the calendar or .... BL: On a T -shirt. KW: A T -shirt, yes. Uh, I think you need to explain Quality Row. Who would like to do that? Helen? HP: I'm not sure where it got it's name, but that's what it was called many years ago. Nobody knew the name Throckmorton. HP: Uh, in fact, we didn't go by streets. I know 516 was the number on our house, but no one ever used it. They just knew where people lived. Names were on the steps. BL: Well, they had names on the doors, they just knew everybody anyway. HP: Right, it shows that uh, the name on the steps in this picture. We just went by the names of the people that lived in the homes. BL: Now, there were two houses on that street probably were the oldest homes. Where the Ball's lived and the Winklers lived were stone houses. KW: That were on the campus? BL: North, okay. That's where, those must have been the original houses for the administration or something, but they were big stone houses and I think that is where the Quality Row came from. Because that's where some of the ... KW: Came from there... Deans or Administrators or something like that. HP: Well on Quality Row the Bilsing sold milk, and my parents had hens and we sold eggs to the neighbors. RW: ... You sold that on Quality Row... KW: And they rented out the upstairs. ME: Yes. KW: Now that's fascinating. Now I want you to describe the landscaping of your houses. Uh, it suggests here that you tell us about trees, and shrubs, and lawns. We can see some of those through the pictures. So, if you'd like to start Mary, and who took care of the maintenance on what you are gonna describe? ME: Well, I think my father did, did most of the maintenance. KW: Did you have brothers? ME: I have two brothers, younger. KW: And that's Preston, and.. ME: Frank KW: Frank, Preston and Frank Bolton. And, uh, were they good at mowing the lawn? ME: Well, when they had to. Frank, Frank, <Ha -Ha> Frank... I could say that Preston was spoiled and he didn't have to do anything because he was the baby. <Ha -Ha> Frank, Frank played golf as much as he could, so he wasn't around any more than he had to be. KW: Do you remember your, uh, the maintenance and who took care it? HP: Uh, to get the car, my brother had to mow the lawn. Dad did the edging. And we sat outside all of the time. No television, not much radio...we had big trees, and all of the 7 neighbors would gather until the quiet a bit after dark and we would visit in lawn chairs and rockers while the children played in the street lights and chased around the houses. KW: Uh, what about goat head stickers... and those kinds of things. <Ha -Ha> Do you remember those? RW: Goat head stickers, boy do I remember those. I used to walk bare -foot across the drill field and that was full of grassburrs. BL: That took nerve. RW: And we'd go up to... what was the name of that uh, little pharmacy that was up there? There was an indoor bowling alley. HP: Uh, Casey's RW: Casey's Confectionary, we'd go up there to get a candy bar or something. KW: About where was Casey's Pharmacy? BL: In the YMCA RW: In the basement of the `Y' yeah. KW: And it was still there in 1939 when we came? WW: Yeah. KW: Casey's ?? BL: Confections. KW: Confections? BL: Casey's Confections. RW: And I could remember being scared as I walked past this uh, bowling alley. Was that a bowling alley or ..? BL: Yeah, bowling alley. The bowling alley was built over the swimming pool. RW: Okay, well the bowling alley was, was in my era I guess. And I used to just uh, you know the Aggies were all there and I was just a kid and I'd walk ME: The pool in, in, in there every afternoon in the summer we, we took our little brothers and sisters and we all went to the swimming pool, Miss Amy, Ms. Marstellar was there and she supervised us an taught us to swim. KW: And Marstellar of course is a street here now and what did he teach? ME: Dr. Marstella was head of ... BL: Dean of Vet Medicine. ME: Dean of.. KW: Vet Medicine? And you went there for, and you went, did you have dates for the bowling alley, or was before that time? RW: Oh no. I didn't go to the bowling alley. I very carefully walked past it and into Casey's. BL: Well, the billiard tables on one side .... RW: I think they had billiard tables too, but it was kind of dark in there, dark and scary. BL: It was dark. KW: So it was sort of off limits in a way to little children maybe? RW: Well, little children wouldn't have even wanted to be in there. That's the only way I could get to Casey's. Well listen, about trees, we used to have a huge mulberry tree. And we used to have great fun eating the mulberries. And then in the backyard, we had a huge back yard. And my dad had strung lights out there, so we had great fun playing out there. Red Rover and all of that stuff. KW: Helen? 8 HP: The yards were beautiful and many campus girls would marry in the yards....the Kyle daughter. KW: How about Betty Jo Hale? She had a picture and there's a lady named Adcock here that was in her wedding, so. HP: That wasn't on campus. KW: That wasn't on campus? HP: No, these were... weddings with beautiful trellis and... ME: ....got married in Guion Hall. HP: Well, that was a reception. KW: Who all got married in Guion Hall? ME: Lily Bess was the first woman to be married in Guion Hall. I was married in Guion Hall. KW: Lily Bess was? BL: Kyle KW: Kyle okay. From the Kyle Field. BL: Yes. KW: And the Kyle Street. HP: It's not the same Kyle. KW: No? HP: Kyle Field is named for the Houston Kyle. RW: Yes. KW: Oh. Oh. One of those is Dean Kyle isn't it? ME: Dean Kyle. They claim, they claim that they it was really of Houston, the doctor that Kyle Field is named for. BL: But E. J.'s name is on the plaque. Ha -Ha ME: I know they finally got it put on, but it took a long time. BL: It was 1955 he got the board to do that. HP: The street that I live on is Kyle Avenue. KW: Is Kyle, right, right now. HP: Yes. KW: And that's which Kyle then? HP: That's uh, Dean Kyle. KW: Dean Kyle? I see. About how many houses, maybe you could answer that Bill. About how many houses were located on the central campus? BL: Knox Walker has a, a count or a list of all of those. KW: Okay, so we, we don't... BL: Fewer than 100, uh, 50 you think? HP: 50 to 60, yeah. BL: 50 to 60 I guess is a good number. KW: Yes, well we talked about the numbering and the naming of the houses. Now, would anyone want to explain it? Was it pretty reasonable and make it easy to find a, your way around? ME: Everybody just knew everybody. BL: You just knew everybody... ME: When you went away in the summertime on your vacation you don't, you didn't lock up your houses, you just left your door open. If anybody needed candles or something, from 9 KW: RW: KW: HP: ME: BL: KW: BL: KW: HP: KW: HP: KW: RW: KW: RW: ME: HP: KW: RW: KW: RW: KW: RW: KW: RW: KW: ME: KW: HP: HP: KW: HP: BL: HP: KW: next door, they went in and got it. It was, it was just... Just open. The good old days. Ha -Ha The good old day. Well, how did they assign where you lived? Do you know? Uh, I don't know the official way it went, but... I, I think it went probably by your jobs. yeah. Yes. Deans and Directors had littler bigger and better houses and... Sure. When uh, my parents came from Alabama all their belongings were in one box car. And it was put on a spur here. And uh, Will was uh, the black man that helped my dad in his work. And he took a wagon over to the railroad uh, spur and unloaded that box car and then took the belongings to our house. I think it was about two blocks. I see. Now was he part of the family that lived in your back yard so to speak? No. No. He cooks and maids did. Not couples Do you remember the people that lived your, in those servant quarters? We didn't have servant's quarters. You didn't have servants? Well then how did you get your laundry done? Oh we had two people that came by the day.... They came on Mondays.... Came on Monday and washed. Came on Tuesday ironed. Wait a minute you people. We had a cook and a maid that cleaned Say that again. We had a wash woman. Separate from and always cooked supper for us. And you had that everyday, that help. Well, the wash woman didn't come eve No, no. But the others.. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And that's the way... How about you Mary? Yes. Yes, we, we always had a cook that lived in and she fixed three meals a day. And she lived in. Saturday was her only night off and that's when we had chili and went to the Assembly Hall for the movies... Every Saturday night the Assembly Hall showed movies.... Where was the Assembly Hall? It was probably between the All Faith's Chapel and the dorms. Pretty much where the All Faith's Chapel is now. And that's where all of the Aggies went to the movies and threw peanuts. And uh, that was just a routine. Every campus kid went to the movies every single Saturday night. Were the Aggies noisy or obscene? the house. And then we had a wash girl. the maid that did the housework and the ironing ryday. 10 RW: Oh my! BL: Oh, perish the thought! Ha -Ha No, no. RW: It was wonderful. BL: Well behaved, well behaved! HP: It had a balcony with wooden floors and when a good line came on they'd stomp the floor, so you'd miss the next two or three lines. RW: Oh, it was a wonderful experience. ME: I read, I read it to my little brothers. I read, the, you know the... KW: Oh it had subtitles. ME: Oh yeah, it was all, it was all, .... KW: Silents, before talkies. Silent films. HP: I don't remember silent films. KW: You don't remember the silent films, but you do? ME: Oh yeah, I read to my brothers. KW: And let's see... RW: There were talkies by the time we got there. KW: yeah. RW: I'm just younger than I thought....ha -ha KW: I know.... ha -ha ME: I have a story I want to tell, but not now. KW: Not now? All right, but everyone who listens to this tape will want to know. Well, it says a resolution adopted in 1939 stated that on or before September 1, 1941, all campus residents must be vacated and not be rented again. We'd like to know if you remember, now Mary had gone, but the others of you. Of course, you had already moved off Bill, but do you remember that time? HP: Yes. KW: When you had to move off. HP: Army personnel moved into our homes on campus. And then stayed there, and then Breezy Brazil lived there for a while. ME: Well, we never, we never moved off KW: You never moved off? ME: No, my father moved from the, from this house to the President's house then, then retired all together. KW: That's right. ME: But we never lived off campus. KW: That's right. Because then he became President and uh, that is Dean Bolton, President, ME: Frank C. Bolton KW: F.C. Bolton. And you remember when he was President. Of course, did you come back to that house? ME: Oh, Oh, yes. Well we came back to the President's house because he lived in that house. KW: Do you remember what year it was he moved into the President's house? ME: It was 1948. BL: `48. ME: `48. KW: `48? 11 ME: He was President from `48 to `50. KW: I see, and Helen do you remember anything special about this time, about 1941? KW: And this is what I understand. Then some of the military lived in those houses.... END OF SIDE A TAPE 1 SIDE B KW: ...explain that again. We might have missed a little bit about the military. ME: Well, whoever was colonel or head of the military and had a house on Throckmorton. Quality Road KW: Quality Road. ME: Right, right across from Guion hall. HP: one of the homes was made USO, The Silvey Home ME: Which home is that? KW: Silvey. ME: Oh, the Silvey Home KW: Now, is that the Silvey Home still standing behind the Episcopal Church. HP: Yes. KW: Are we going to fast for you? KF: Um, how do you spell "Silvey ?" BL: S -I KW: S- I- L- V -E -Y. OK. Now, it is suggested that we talk about the roads. And I'm going to talk to you a little bit bout what we will be talking about. The central campus area was bounded by Sulfur Springs Road... BL: Which is now University Dr. KW: Which is now University Dr. Texas Ave on the east. Jersey St. on the south. ME: ...the old Texas Ave? BL: Yeah, Highway 6 ME: We didn't have that when I started, we had only one called Wellborn Road KW: Old Highway 6 on the west. BL: See Highway 6 didn't occur until the mid- 30s. KW: Tell me about that again. BL: Highway 6. The university used to face west. The Academic building, where the bell tower is now, that was the direction the university faced. In the early `30s they built uh, they turned it around so that it faced east and then the Systems Administration building with all the columns on it now, the System Administration building, was the main building that first faced east in the entrance that came to there. That's when Highway 6 was built. You see, Wellborn Road used to be the main highway to Houston and Navasota. KW: And it was Highway 6 at that time. BL: I guess. KW: That's what it says here. BL: But anyhow, the university turned. The university of course knew that the highway was going to be built. KW: What year was it moved? BL: Uh, well, I believe it those buildings were built in `32 and `33; the Scoats building, what used to be the animal science building, I don't know what it's called now. And uh... KW: That was about the time it was turned. 12 BL: Right. KW: Well, tell us a little bit about the road, like the main roads. We haven't talked about the railroad yet, let's just talk about the roads. And I think there's pictures you're passing around of cars that travel on those roads. HP: This is my parents first car in 1925 and the baby is me. BL: ha ha ha ME: We all called her little Helen. She was never Helen, she was little Helen HP: That's right. HP: Talking about the roads this picture shows the university when it faced Wellborn Road. Well, my brother used to play down here, this area was the campus dump and we played at the campus dump collecting test tubes and everything else we could find and that was great fun. HP: and that was before the university faced what is now Texas Avenue. KW: OK, now tell us what happened about visitors for dances - unless you have something else to say about roads. These roads were not high quality - what were they like? BL: I can remember when a bunch of them were gravel. KW: I can remember when they went around trees. Well, is there anybody else that would like to say anything else about roads? Well, how about visitors? Think about visitors for dances, graduation, and where they stayed... RW: They stayed right in our house. My mother was very careful about what kinds of girls she took in. BL: ha ha RW: We had all kinds of rules KW: All kinds of rules? RW: Yes, and it was kind of like it was kind of a duty of the college professors to open their homes to these girls when they would come for the dances. KW: even after 1955 we kept them in our house. RW: A long time, yep. And it was usually for two nights. BL: Well, the only accommodation on campus of course was the Shirley House and the Aggieland Inn. KW: When was the Aggieland Inn built? BL: `20s KW: In the `20s? And of course the girls liked that. The boys would put them up there. ME: If their parents let them, but there were a lot of parents that didn't want their - uh - you know you just didn't do that kind of things. RW: That's right. ME: And if you were chaperoned the dances were in the mess hall, and at midnight- BL: you were shut down. Ha ha ME: we all came out and we walked down to the houses where our parents had cake and sandwiches and things for us and then we went back to the dance. Students were not allowed to have cars some, they did, some of them, but they weren't allowed on campus. KW: So that they could take their date off campus if they did have a car somewhere, I guess. HP: There was no place to go. ME: No place to go KW: Well, how about Bryan - places like that? Tell me a little bit about what Bryan was at that 13 time. BL: The end of the... RW: Yeah, and you know, I don't know. There was a big rivalry. Is there still? HP: Yes. RW: It was just terrible at that time the rivalry between Bryan and College Station. KW: Well, when did the trolley come in? BL: 1910? ME: I went to school on the trolley until 1920 when we all walked down to one of the mess halls back there and get on the car sometimes we would get there on time and sometimes we didn't but when we got into Bryan we'd walk for three blocks to get to the school... KW: Now, I thought you went to school on the campus. BL: This was before the school was built on campus. ME: In the 1920's when when when... KW: So you had to go into. ME: We went into Bryan on the streetcar... KW: On to school. That's right Mary. You have a little bit of head time. BL: She's preceded us... KW: I think that's exciting. Can you tell us anything else about it, going on the trolley to school in 1910, so you would have been... ME: Well, I didn't start in 1910. Uh, my mother taught me the first two years. I didn't go to school until the 3` grade or go so I didn't start in to school on the trolley 'till I was in the 3' grade. KW: And the boys, what happened to them? Your brothers? Me: Well, they weren't ready for school. KW: Ah, oh I see. Well, what about you and Bryan maybe shopping or whatever... HP: We went in to get our school supplies and our clothes. Just before school started. And that was fun. We did swim in the pool at the country club in the summers. That was an outdoor pool. It was where the golf links are now. And that was a lovely pool and we would go out and swim there. KW: That was the pool that has been here all the time? Since 55? BL: No No. There used to be a club house there that is not there any more. There is a pool there now. But it was built much later. HP: Yeah it was a country club and we would go out there and swim during the summer with dances at the club house. Now we would go to the movies at the Palace. We were lucky enough to know someone going that direction. And the Aggies hitchhiked and always got to ride in back. You never went to Bryan without a carload of Aggies. That was just part of the trip to Bryan you'd take the Aggies in and you brought the other Aggies back if you had room in your car. KW: Oh, I see. Um, anything else you'd like to say about that? RW: Well, as far as the swimming pool, we lived close to the A &M pool. The in -door pool... BL: ...next door to Kyle - they just tore it down. all: PL Downs. BL: It was built in `32 and before that you were swimming on campus it was over in the YMCA building - that pool is still there by the way. They paved over it. But when they built the new pool P.L. Downs in 1932 that is when they put the bowling alley in that she 14 was afraid to go by. RW: That was a wonderful pool. BL: Oh yes. RW: It was huge and we used to swim every day. HP: every day all the campus kids RW: Twice a day. BL: You'd get a family ticket for $3 HP: And we go back at night and swim from 7 to 9. BL: 3 to 5, 7 to 9 HP: And we were there every minute. And we had film over our eyes all summer long, you know, from the chlorine. RW: We had 2 family tickets. One for the assembly hall for the movies and one for the pool so we could swim. We'd spend lots of time in that pool. KW: And your before... ME: that was before...my time was before and my time....and I did my swimming in the YMCA and Mrs. Marsteller taught us all to all swim ... and one time one of my brothers misbehaved and I corrected him. My mother stayed home and slept. They had their nap in the afternoon and we took all the kids down and Frank misbehaved and uh before I could get home Mrs. Marsteller(?) called my mom and said he needed it - just let her know. all: ha ha ha HP: She mentioned Mrs. Marsteller. I'd like to say, these neighbors gave so much to the campus children. Mrs. Marsteller and Maj. Irwin, who was in the cavalry, got together and taught us horseback riding on the cavalry horses. Every Saturday morning we learned to ride English saddles we learned to jump and we had horse shows. Cynthia and I rode every Saturday morning and Mrs. Marsteller and Maj. Irwin taught us to ride. We had the only mounted girl scout troop in the United States. KW: The only mounted girl scout troop in the United States? HP: His (Bill Lancaster's) sister and I were in it. HP: We would ride to the Brazos river and back. KW: That's a long way HP: These were regular Army horses, cavalry and artillery horses. RW: And the enlisted men would saddle 'em, and feed 'em, but all we did was go around and jump on 'em and ride. all: ha HP: And I won a silver cup at the A &M Horse Show. RW: I'm proud of you, I'm learning things about you that I never knew KW: you didn't play the music with colonel Dunn you didn't ride the horses. RW: No, I didn't ride the horses Nancy did. BL: I rode the horses RW: I ride these days I have my own horse. BL: Well, braver than I am. KW: Well now, tell us some of the things that your parents did like bridge parties or card parties, who would like to start? 15 ME: Every year they'd always have some big party and they'd have everybody in the whole community and they had one big party and then they had bridge parties and social parties and various kinds, but they'd usually have one big party and pay off everybody and start all over, and you borrowed silver and china and everything from the neighbors because you did not have enough to have everybody -we did this that's the way we did it HP: And they dressed formally. ME: yeah yeah KW: There is something written about the Gilcrest parties do you remember anything about the Gilcrest having parties regularly? ME: No, I was gone by the time the Gilcrest had parties, though I lived at home two years during the war and then Mrs. Gilcrest and I were very close friends. HP: Every Halloween the faculty had a costume party at Sbisa Hall where they gave prizes and we children didn't get to go. We would run all over the campus and do things with yard furniture and all that on Halloween while our parents were in dancing in Sbisa at the Halloween party. KW: Would you like to talk about a social event that you remember? RW: As far as my mother? Or are you thinking right here or those older people who liked to have parties? She wasn't a bridge player, but she would have luncheons and dinners and one of her favorite things was Mexican food. She was a very good cook. KW: Describe how they dressed. You know, like we had crocheted gloves where I came from. RW: Well, what I can remember when you went to college, you better be dressed right. KW: Where did you go? HP: I went to TSCW. Texas Women's University now. KW: We haven't talked about Texas Women's University and their connection. Would you like to say something about this? RW: It was A &M's sister school. I went up there in `43 and I was already engaged to Steve Williams when I went up there. Of course, that was during the war and we would ride the train to Dallas and then take a bus up to Denton, and if I didn't have on hose and heels and gloves and a hat, I mean my mother, you know. (laughter). So, I'll never forget the day when I started seeing people at like an airport dressed in all different ways(laughter). You know, I was horrified. BL: This was true during football games even. RW: Oh right. BL: People dressed up. RW: You dressed up. You really did. HP: Hats and heels to football games. BL: Anybody who showed up in shorts was . RW: Oh it was terrible. ME: You wore your new long dress. BL: That's right. ME: You ruined it at the first ball game because it was in September and it was hot and you had your new winter dress on. BL: That's right. RW: And as far as dances are concerned, I mean all the regimental balls and everything, I think I had a bigger wardrobe of evening dresses than I had daytime dresses. 16 ME: Well, you got three new ones for the RV dances because it was Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. RW: We couldn't be seen in the same dress. ME: Oh no. RW: Oh heavens. KW: Did you borrow each other's dresses? ME: Oh no. RW: I never did. No, huh -uh. My mother was a great seamstress, too. She made some of them and we bought some of them. HP: Oh it was wonderful. ME: We had a good seamstress in Bryan and she made them all. KW: I see. Helen, you were an artist, already an artist? When did you .. . HP: I never really started taking art until I was in college, but let me go back a little bit and talk more how the women, like Mrs. Marstellar. They all, we were such a family. We kids were given so much, we were tutored in French, art, cooking, etiquette, music. I can remember different women that lived on campus would have the children into their homes and teach us these things. French, I remember, especially. KW: Well, what about .. . ME: I want to say that at the parties and all, they would have tea parties in the afternoon and big, big teas. And as soon as we were eleven to thirteen, or fourteen, we served at those parties so we learned how to conduct ourselves at parties and things. We served at the tea parties, and we had little evening dresses, too, to wear to dress up for the tea parties. HP: There was a lot of entertaining and we were brought up watching our parents and our neighbors entertain, and that's how we learned, and we took part in everything. KW: And then none of your parents worked outside except to help other children out of friendship. BL: There wasn't anything to do. No place they could work. RW: They not only didn't work, they had servants and you know they didn't have washing machines, but you know, when I look back my mother didn't have it bad. I mean, you know. KW: It was pretty hot though. No air conditioning RW: Oh my goodness, yes. KW: Where did you buy things like groceries and things like that? Would you like to comment on that? ME: You called into Bryan, in the morning. You called your grocery list into Bryan in the morning and it was delivered in the afternoon. If you got out of something, you borrowed it from the neighbor. HP: We didn't do that we shopped at Luke's at Northgate (Luke Patranella). And it was every morning, the women would go to Luke's and buy their groceries. And Luke's had a delivery boy also who drove a little motorcycle. His name was Sam, I think. BL: No. HP: And then the ice was delivered by Mr. White in a wagon. And we kids would run after the wagon .. . ME: ... and get on the wagon .. . HP: and chip off the ice and steal it. We would steal the ice. 17 RW: That's the way my folks did it. Luke would deliver the groceries. ME: I was talking about before Luke's. KW: Before Luke's? ME: Before Luke's. RW: See we've got two generations in here. HP: Once a year, at Easter, Luke furnished all the eggs and the ladies on campus would dye them, and the children would have an Easter Egg hunt. KW: And this was Luke Patranella now, right? all: Yes. KW: Was he still at Northgate? Or is that .. . ME: Later during World War II he moved over to Eastgate. (everyone is talking at once, debating about where Luke's moved during this time) RW: No. HP: No, northside. BL: No, eastgate. KW: Oh he moved to the eastgate. HP: And Manning Smith was in his grocery store, too and then later took it over when Luke died. RW: That's what I remember. Okay. Luke Patranella moved to the eastgate and Manning Smith took that over when .. . BL: Luke died ... in `46. HP: But the Easter Egg hunts were a big to do. KW: Where were they? Do you remember? HP: They were, um .. . BL: Behind what's now the President's home. HP: Between the flower gardens and what I guess now is the students MSC Center garage. BL: Well, south of the parking garage. HP: Yeah, the parking garage. There was a beautiful park area, and it was behind our house. They would go down there and hide the eggs and then they would turn the kids loose. It was a wonderful sight. KW: Do you remember anything like that, Mary? ME: No, that was after my time. KW: But they must have done something with the Easter eggs, or something you remember? ME: Well we had our own. Daddy made the mistake of putting one up the drain of the house and I never could figure that out, so I learned that there was no Easter Bunny. (laughter) KW: So you had to find out who put that egg in the drain? ME: Yeah, it just didn't work for the Easter Bunny. HP: At Christmas we had pageants and they were always held at the YMCA. And we all took part in the different things. I remember Preston Bolton was my husband at one of the pageants. He was quite impressive. And that was fun. Caroling we did from house to house. RW: Whatever church you were in HP: Everyone went to the YMCA to church except for the Methodists. They had their own church. Everybody else went to the YMCA where Norman Anderson led the services. KW: We just had the 75th anniversary. 18 RW: The YMCA is very special to me because I was married in the YMCA chapel. all: Oh, you were? KW: When was that YMCA put there? It is still beautiful. BL: 1917. RW: It was long before I was born. That was the place. ME: The Christmas party that they had, it was a big party. And it was originally given for the students that couldn't afford to go home and were left there on campus. And so when we all went and there was always a present for every child, an orange, or apple or something. And then we had our little pageant and stuff KW: Every year, in the YMCA. ME: Yes WW: (mumbling) ... on the top floor. KW: What? Who lived on the top floor? Of the what? WW: Of the YMCA. KW: Oh, you lived on the top floor WW: That's right sure. (everyone talking at once) BL: The Y was built originally with two floors the third floor was added on .. . KW: And when did they add the third floor? RW: I don't remember, but .. . BL: It was the early twenties. RW: In the early twenties, the third floor .. . WW: It was added about 1925.. . BL: It was built originally in `17, they must have added the third floor, but in the 1917 annual it's two floors. So they added this bachelor's quarters thing later. KW: And you remember that, the bachelor's ... Oh no, you just remember working with that. ME: The social club met there and then they had to go up all of those little winding stairs up to that second room, the third floor, I guess it was. And they had to take all their food up there. They had to take all of their dishes and everything up to that. I don't know how my mother, she went always, but she was very crippled and I don't know how she ever got up and down those stairs, but she did. BL: Sound like a herd of horses going up those iron stairs. I don't know why they didn't put the regular set of stairs there. ME: They couldn't wash the dishes or anything up there. I think there was one little sink, but you took your dirty dishes home. BL: The MSC supplanted all of that when it was built in 1950. It was a sign of moving to civilization. RW: It changed. HP: We had the equivalent of OPAS. KW: You had the equivalent of OPAS? HP: Yes. In Guion Hall. There were famous poets, singers, musicians, and orchestras. They would appear in Guion Hall and we children were all made to attend. KW: You were all what? HP: Made to go. Our parents saw to it that we went. 19 RW: At the dances, you had big bands, but I guess that came later. ME: Real bands. Real good bands. Back in my day we had the main top bands. HP: We had all the top bands at Sbisa. That's where I met my husband. KW: Well, I want to know something ... Oh my goodness. There's so much here. We talked about buying groceries and ice, and then summer picnics at the fish tank. Does anybody remember that? ME: Yes, I remember those. We didn't have a horse and buggy, but we were always invited to ride with somebody else. And that again was where I swam. One of the coaches taught me how to swim out at the fish tank. KW: And where was that fish tank? BL: It's still there it's out on the property right across from the fireman's training fields. KW: And does anybody else want to comment on going out there? Now you said a horse and buggy, when did you get your first car, do you remember? ME: It was a Saxon and nobody ever heard of a Saxon and that was our first car. Now what kind it was, I don't know, but it had a habit of the rear axle breaking. KW: A habit of breaking the rear axle. It was called a Saxon? S -A -X .. . ME: It was a Saxon car, S- A- X -O -N. KW: I see. And you remember about what year that was? More or less? I mean, were you little? Grown up? I mean, you weren't grown up, because that was later. ME: Maybe before the twenties, but not much before the twenties. KW: Now, does anybody want to comment on the college zoo? BL: I don't remember it. It was out across the tracks. ME: It was over on the west side where you went to get your milk. (everyone talking at once) KW: Well, now we get to talk about elementary school. Each one of you tell me where you attended elementary school and high school, and we'll go from there. ME: I think I told you mine. I went to Bryan school until 1920. KW: And then you graduated from there. ME: I graduated from Consolidated. KW: Oh, you came back. And that was on the campus. ME: That was on the campus. It was across the street from our house. That's why the music teacher could be there because it was just across the street (elementary). KW: They could leave the school building actually and go into your home. ME: And next door, one of the original old houses was the teacher's. And that's where the teachers lived. KW: So some of those teachers weren't married .. . ME: No, they weren't married and they lived in .. . KW: They lived in the what? ME: Huh? KW ? ? ?? KW: How about you Helen. What would you say about elementary school and high school? HP: I went to this school which was right off Throckmorton. And it had seven grades and all the campus kids went there. And high school was a condemned dormitory and it was Pfiffer Hall, pictured here. They knocked out every other wall to make classrooms. Now 20 Aggies, to be crazy, painted a few of their rooms pink, so they painted entire school pink. Our entire high school was pink inside. It was a condemned dorm. A wonderful building. We would sit in class and pull the bricks out of the wall. And wave and flirt out the window with the Aggies when they went to class out the window. KW: Did you each marry an Aggie? HP: No, but I made my husband into an Aggie. He got his last two degrees here. RW: My husband was a senior at A &M when I was a junior in high school. We met at the Presbyterian young people's, which he was president of at that time. He and his boots and everything. ME: I met mine when he was a freshman and I was fourteen. I married him senior week. KW: Say this again. ME: I said I met him when I was fourteen and he was a freshman at A &M and we married senior week when he graduated in four years. KW: Of course in those days Texas only had eleven grades so he wasn't much older than you were. He might have been sixteen. ME: No, no. He was five years older than me. KW: Oh, five years older. Sometimes they did come here very young. ME: Yes. KW: When you went to school, was there any kindergarten, Helen? HP: Yes, my sister had one in our attic. My oldest sister taught kindergarten. BL: We didn't even know how to spell kindergarten. HP: But most kids started in the first grade in this school here. (END OF TAPE 1) (TAPE 2, Side A) KW: You moved out of Pfiffer Hall in 1938 or 39? HP: Yes, we moved out. I went to my last two years of high school in this building (College Station Conference Center). The night I graduated, we drank champagne on the roof and then climbed the water tower and danced .. . KW: Which water tower? The one on the campus? HP: Yes, and Sgt. Mac was the night watchman on campus who was so good to all of us kids, we were his kids. And he stood down there and yelled at us "Get off that water tower," or he was going to tell our families. KW: So you got off. HP: He had a bad leg. You know.... Yeah, and there must have been eight or ten of us up there dancing that night on graduation, but it was quite a sight. BL: That was a tall tower. KW: It was what? BL: A tall tower. HP: It was the one that was straight on the side. RW: Yes, I remember. HP: It shows in this picture. KW: I don't see how you climbed it. HP: I don't either. ME: You wouldn't do it now. HP: Oh no, of course not. 21 KW: Maybe if I poured some champagne. (laughter) KW: Well, did your parents find out? HP: I'm not sure. This was interesting. This was in `36 when Franklin Roosevelt visited here. KW: Say that again., Helen. HP: FDR visited here in 1936. This was a picture of him at Kyle Field. All the kids turned out for this parade for Franklin Delenore Roosevelt. RW: And the parents, too. I've got pictures somewhere that I can see myself in the crowd. And here he is in this open car - a convertible, you know. That was an exciting time. KW: How many, um, ... I didn't finish hearing about your schooling. RW: Well, very much the same as Helen's. I remember one time when we were in the old high school in Pfiffer Hall, it snowed and they turned out school. You know, because it snowed. So we walked up to the school grounds and threw snowballs at each other and had a real hullaballoo. It was quite an occasion. ME: Well, you lived so close. RW: Huh? ME: You lived so close. RW: Oh yeah. We always walked to school. HP: It was just a block for me. RW: Well, further than that. But then of course, over here, you had to walk further. ...We would walk to school and walk home at lunch. Home at lunch and back. Most of them now are closed campuses.. . KW: Now how many students were in your class. Now you went into Bryan. ..Mary. Were there small classes there in Bryan? Do you remember? ME: No. They were just normal classes, probably. KW: Where were those buildings, where you went in Bryan? ME: Well, one of them is still a school. They changed the name of it, now. I can't remember what it was. BL: It was Bantern ( ? ? ?) probably. KW: Bantern ( ? ? ?). Was it Bantern? (Bowie) BL: Between 29 and 30 ME: No, I don't think it was Bantern. What was it? Well, it's had several names and I'm not sure it's a school now, but I think it is. KW: And it was a big brick building. Even then. ME: Oh yes. KW: Because there are several of those in Bryan. And you went on to elementary in that. Then high school in Bryan. ME: No, I didn't go to high school in Bryan. I went to Consolidated. But when I went in Bryan to school, there was a lady who lived on the edge of the school building and she gave us hot lunches. I mean, parents paid for them, but she gave you hot lunches. KW: You couldn't come home, of course. And then, you came home by a trolley again. ME: And if you got sick, and I had ... anyway, I'd go to school and feel fine, and if you got desperately ill in the middle of school, they didn't send you home, they didn't have a school nurse or anything, they sent you out and you sat in the little arbor outside and waited for the trolley to go home. KW: So you could get sicker. You didn't get sick very often then. 22 BL: You didn't let anybody know if you did. ME: If the (???) came, one of the mothers would drive in and bring in the coats, because we wouldn't go to school without coats. KW: How about you, how many people were in your class, Helen? HP: My graduating class in high school was 25. About a hundred in the whole high school. KW: And you graduated in .. . HP: `41. KW: ...'41. Okay, because I think Mary Ellen graduated in about `44( ?). HP: I was sixteen. KW: You were sixteen when you graduated? HP: I graduated and went to college when I was sixteen ...and .. . KW: And you went to .. . HP: TWU. I graduated from there in `45? KW: We had about the same experiences. ME: In `26. I think I graduated .. . KW: Say that again. ME: I graduated from high school in `26. KW: In `26. And did you go on to school .. . ME: I went to Baylor Belton, which was Baylor College for Women. HP: What's the difference in that and Mary Hardin Baylor? BL: It's the same thing. ME: It's the same thing. RW: My mother went there. KW: How did you get up there? ME: Well, you went on a train, And then your parents came to see you and brought your boyfriend for the weekend. My father had taught at Mississippi A &M before he came to Texas A &M and Dr. Hardy, who was head of the college of Baylor Belton, my father had taught under him. He had been President at Mississippi A&M and so I went there for that reason. KW: Well, do you want to say anything more about college life? Because we haven't said much about the train. I thought you'd be talking about riding up and down on that train everywhere. BL: That orange train came through here. It was the Sunbeam. That was like, you know .. . HP: If we had the money, we would ride it to Bryan to the movies. It did stop at Bryan at that time. Later it was nonstop to Dallas. BL: I tried to find picture of the Sunbeam - of that orange train. It is hard to really visualize how fancy that thing was. HP: It was nice. RW: It was very nice. HP: We took it to college back and forth all the time. BL: That train went from Houston to College Station in an hour... . ME: In the afternoon, your entertainment was to ride down and watch the train come in. BL: That's right. That's right. KW: And you went to TWU on that train. RW: And so did I. 23 KW: And went to Dallas and then to Denton by bus. BL: Four trains a day. The daytime stop we'd call at different places between Dallas and Houston. The night trains were going north, got in at 6:15; Going south it was 30, but it didn't stop anywhere in College Station, Dallas, or Houston. When you get to Dallas at 6:15, they had to go over a hundred miles an hour to do that. They had to slow down 'cause they weren't allowed to go over 70 mph. KW: They wanted to stay something about the Queen Theater. Helen mentioned the Palace. Of course, you said you were before talkies, Mary, and you read some of the titles to your brothers. And I wonder if that was mostly on campus? ME: Oh yes, oh yes. KW: You didn't go to Bryan to the movies? ME: Yes, we went on Saturday afternoons. We went to Bryan on the streetcar and we spent our money on a nice drink afterwards at the confectioners and then you called one of the parents who came and picked you up. And then you got home you went on Saturday nights to .. . KW: To Guion Hall? ME: No, it wasn't Guion Hall, it was the assembly .. . KW: Oh, the assembly hall, yes. The assembly hall. And they would show the movies. Does anybody remember the Queen? ME: Oh, yes. I remember you weren't really supposed to go there at one time. KW: To the Dixie? BL: No, the Dixie was something different. The Queen's deal was built in the mid '30's. KW: And you're saying that you weren't supposed to go there? ME: No, they didn't really like us to go to the Dixie. They let us go to the Palace. BL: That's right. KW: Yes, but you were not so old. ME: That's right. BL: There was still a lesser cloud over the Palace. KW: Well, do you remember stage shows along with the movies? HP: We took dancing and had reviews on the stage of the Palace. KW: Say that again. HP: We took dancing- ballet and tap- and our reviews, our dance recitals, we did on the stage of the Palace. ME: Well, the chatauqua... KW: What's a chatauqua? ME: We had the chatauqua. KW: And where did they have that? Do you remember where they had that? Chatauqua. C -H- A-T-A-U-Q-U-A and it comes from Chatauqua, New York. So, did chatauqua come every year? And your parents went and you went? ME: Once, I was in one of the plays that they did. KW: The plays? ME: Oh, yes, the plays. KW: We had all the readings and the lecturers. Do you remember the chatauqua there, Helen? Do you? I wonder when all that stopped. Mary, do you know? I'm very interested to know. Bill, do you remember the chatauqua? You're not getting any culture? 24 BL: No (mumbles.) HP: I remember the circuses and the gypsies and the hobos and the tramps. KW: Well, tell us about that cause there was a train which seemed that you would have had quite a few hobos. HP: We did. They would get off and try to get a meal. And they always made a bee line for our back door. My mother fed them. I'd get to talk to them and learn all these wonderful stories, sitting on the back steps. But the gypsies... KW: Where did they come from? HP: I don't know, but they would camp, as did the hobos in the north end of the college park lake. The Lancaster house faced the lake and it was overgrown in the north end. That's where these tramps and hobos and gypsies would camp. We were never allowed to go near there. Although, we rafted on the lake a lot. KW: Do you remember ice skating? I understand they ice skated one year. BL: Just that one year. HP: It never got that cold. BL: Oh yeah, it froze in `28 or `29. Enough where M. C. Hughes and Norman Rode took pictures of them ice skating. BL: They had ice skates they were unheard of KW: When did they quit ice skating BL: About thirty nine, forty sometime when something else happened. KW: Thank you for coming Mr. Peterson, I am just so sorry. Yeah it is just to bad. BL: Well, really with the drainage I can't ... It wasn't all that clean KW: We discussed typhoid early on, do any of you remember any special diseases or dyptheria or any problems like that? HP: Just measles and mumps and that kind of stuff. BL: Wasn't there a typhoid thing on campus in 1918, I think that's what it was? ME: That was the flu. BL: Was it the flu where so many died? ME: And that was when we had soldiers on the campus. They camped and they lived in tents. KW: Were you going to say something? HP: This is a very personal story. Aggies(??) and the kids on the campus were close friends. We would roller skate and they were always there. One campus small girl got lost and the entire cadet corps turned out to look for her.. And I thought that was so splendid that Aggies turned out and spread out all around looking for this little girl. They found her later she was on her roof, and she fell asleep. KW: She fell asleep on what roof? HP: Her own roof. BL: I had forgotten about that. HP: Do you remember that at all? Oh, we were all terribly upset. KW: We've talked a little bit about roller skating, riding horses, theatrical productions, swimming, water fights between the southside kids and the northside kids. Do you remember that? HP: We had nothing to entertain with, so we had our own circuses and we'd all take part, and we would have our puppet shows, where we made our own puppets. BL: It's Puryear. 25 KW: Do you know how they spell Puryear? KW: His own name was Puryear. Street people all over town called it Puryear. BL: That's what it's named, Puryear. KW: But he had the misfortune of carrying over into our house to see the puppet show, when all of the kids got together. HP: Well, I think that's the first time I've ever heard that he was crippled. ME: Yes, he was always crippled, because when I was there, he had to walk with a cane and he'd weigh you; he'd smoke and he'd hold his cane up and tell you how much you weighed HP: Oh, that's wonderful of him, yes. ME: And his house on Texas was an old one. BL: He owned it. ME: He built it himself and he lived in it, and of course when he died, it went to the state, but it was a good house. HP: No one's lived in it since. BL: It is a green colored house, no other house was painted green. HP: He could paint it any color he wanted. KW: I think we've talked a little bit about corps parades and military reviews, do you want to say anything more about the Bonfire, what do you remember about the Bonfire. HP: This was when we kids used to take part in building it and it was more trash than anything else, but we helped out. ME: And an outhouse. They grabbed somebody's outhouse and put it on top and that was real funny. BL: Yeah, I built it. HP: This is the way they used to build it. BL: I'm afraid they wouldn't be impressed with that one now. HP: There's two outhouses now. HP: Two outhouses? BL: Yeah, that looks familiar. HP: This is '35. KW: '35, Bonfire in 1935. HP: It's about the same as when you came in '39. BL: We didn't burn .. . ME: I lived ... in 1945 and I remember my father went to the phone and he came back and he was dying laughing and I said, "What is it ?," and he said, "There's a man crying on the telephone 'cause his truck is on top of the Bonfire. HP: Well this is really the way a Bonfire should look. HP: Not huge. KW: We've already talked about Casey, we're doing pretty good on these... YMCA and the Y renting rooms; that was only the third floor, but did they rent rooms out every floor? ME: I don't think there was more than one, maybe two, there couldn't be many rooms. The bachelors lived there, but then I don't .. . BL: I think on a regular nightly basis, I don't think this was the quarters where they stayed. HP: Well, what about hospitals and doctors? BL: Old Dr. Marsh didn't care at all. 26 ME: Oh, no. Dr. Ellinger was the first one. Dr. Marsh lived on campus next to the hospital, over there on Third. all: Where did you say he is now? ME: I don't know if he's even here anymore. BL: A building is there now. HP: A building is being built. KW: Well, some people went to Bryan to get born. Where were you born? ME: I was born on the A &M campus, Dr. Raysor came out in his buggy. KW: And that was in what year? ME: 1910. KW: 1910, born on campus. Dr. what was his name? ME: Raysor,R- A- Y- S -O -R. KW: And born on campus. What about you Helen, where were you born? HP: I was the only one of my family born in a hospital. I was born in St. Joe's, my father rode the trolley in when I was born. KW: They did what? HP: He rode the trolley. BL: Was he late getting there? HP: Yes, he was late getting there. BL: Was it St. Joseph's .. . HP: Yes, on the west side of town. But Dr. Marsh treated all of us kids on campus. And I remember him giving me 21 Rabies shots when I was 14. ME: And Dr. Marsh making house calls of course. HP: I don't remember Dr. Marsh making house calls, because it was so easy to get to the college hospital. KW: Where were you born Rosalynn? RW: Executive's ( ? ?) hospital. KW: Where were you born, Bill? BL: I was born at home, attended by Dr. Marsh who lives in College Station HP: Was that that house that was further down on Dexter. KW: We heard that some people went to Houston to get born. BL: How did they get there? ME: You went to Houston on the train early morning and shopped and came back on the train in the afternoon. KW: The whole family went? ME: Yes, ate at the Forum. BL: Oh, yeah. Yes sir. KW: Ate at the forum? BL: A cafeteria. It was uptown. KW: Do you remember trips to Houston? ME: Oh, yes but we used to go in the car, drive back and forth. KW: Well, why don't you tell about, and I think this is always true about the good 'ol' days and what you tell your grandchildren, what chores did you do? Bill, you can start first since you're the one that probably cut the grass. 27 BL: I mowed the yard and took care of the lawn. Yards weren't what they are now. Grass died in the summer time, you didn't fool with it until it came back in the fall. KW: With all that help you had, did you have to do much around the house, Rosalynn? RW: Well, once the parents built the home, then I don't remember it being very hard. It was my job to help vacuum the house on Saturday mornings. Then I got to ride my bicycle with the rest of my friends who were already out riding their bicycles. And here's something I found interesting to me, I knew my parents had been planning to build a home, but I didn't know that the campus had to be vacated. I didn't find that out until later. RW: We never had moved, but we were all happy to get into a nice house. KW: Now, Bill, when did you move out there, you didn't live on the campus as I recall. BL: Never lived on the campus, my father was involved with the leadership that developed College Park, which was the first residential area off campus. You either lived on campus or in Bryan before that. But in 1921, he and four other men developed what's now College Park. KW: And what, uh, that house across the street from that house that you moved to, was that one of the early houses? BL: No, the house that we lived in, the house next door, north of us were the first two houses built on campus. They were built at the same time, in 1922 by the same contractor. After that, through the 20's, the houses were built around the park with the lakes there. - his house was built in 1929 which faces, is one of the houses that faces the park there. The others were all built in the late 20's and early 30's, but that was the southern extremity of the community. KW: Was Pinkie Down's house built for fifty years? BL: Oh, no. KW: No? That was before that? BL: No, the Doherty's(?), several people lived in that house after the Doherty's- Wilcox's, the Harvey family, Jake Sloan. Do you remember the Sloan's? KW: I thought the Wilcox's lived on Lee. Did they? BL: Well, they went to Lee KW: Yeah, tell us about the marlin cause she wrote in the Twelfth Man and then we always said Colonel Munnerlyn was the Spirit of Aggieland. BL: M- U- N- N- E- R- L -Y -N, Munnerlyn. HP: I just remembered something. It's kind of off the track, to stop you. The Orth's- he was an architect. He lived on Quality Road. His daughter, Sara, her face is around the freeze of the Systems Administration Building. KW: Now, say this again. This is Orth? HP: Orth. O- R -T -H. He was an architect and his daughter was very lovely and her name was Sara and when they were building the Systems Building, the decorators and designers used a plastic mold of her face all around the top of the Systems Building. BL: Outside? HP: Outside. Do you remember that? ME: Yeah, I remember. KW: Well, that's quite interesting because on some of the other buildings, you have cows and sheep, so why not? HP: Well this was a lovely girl and she lived on Quality Row. 28 BL: The house that they lived in is the one that's now being sold at the end of Glade Street by Bill Fitch's family. That's the Orth house. KW: They built a house in that lot, so then it's the next house where Fitch lived before he moved across the street? BL: Yes. ME: But it was on campus. KW: I remember when it was on campus. BL: It was Thomas', Williams'... KW: Schucklers'? BL: The Shufflers'. HP: Shufltler lived there; Sieke lived there; Orth lived there. KW: Say that again. I think that's an important order. HP: Well, Orth lived there first. Then, Sieke and then Shuffler. And there was a play house in the backyard. BL: No, no. Sutherland lives in the house that was built , but Gilchrist... KW: When was it built, that house? BL: '37. KW: '37- That's the house that Sutherland lives in now and Koldus lived before. HP: On Quality Row. KW: And Koldus lived there before that. And Gilchrist... BL: Gilchrist began... His son is here today in one of the sessions. KW: I saw his son -in -law, I mean daughter -in -law. Uh, well, we talked about the son being special and we talked about the doctor in the hospital, but do you think of anything now? And Franklin D. Roosevelt- we got that. We've done pretty well, Bill. How about any female members of your family were allowed to attend classes at A & M in the 20's and 30's? ME: I went to classes. KW: You went to classes, Mary? ME: In fact, I was supposed to go to A & M. They let professors' daughters go. And when I graduated from high school, I was going to go there and the board decided that year I couldn't go and that's why I went to Baylor Belton. KW: But they had gone there before? ME: Yes, they had gone there. KW: I think Caroline Mitchell went to classes. ME: Well, summertime- I went in the summertime. You could go in the summertime, but not to regular classes. KW: What about you, Helen? HP: We all went there in the summer, but we weren't allowed to go in the winter. That's why I went to our sister school TSCW. KW: And you couldn't pursue a degree; you just could take courses, but they could count on your TWU. Did they transfer? Your summer courses transferred? HP: We transferred A & M courses to TWU. KW: Do you remember anything about that idea that they could write letters to the boys and have the same mailboxes? You didn't try that? Any activities ?.. BL: My sister played in the Aggie Band. 29 KW: She did? BL: The concert band. She played the harp. KW: I've been thinking about Boy Scouts and wrestling class and Girl Scouts. Anybody want to comment on that? HP: Just that troop we had, the Brownie troop, that was very unusual, I think. BL: Well, the Boy Scouts all made Cashion Cabin which was across there from the area where the zoo was. That's appropriate for the Boy Scouts. KW: Way out there by the fish tank? BL: No, no. Not that far out. It would be the continuation... You know where Agronomy Road crosses University Drive and goes down toward... KW: You want to spell that road because I think that's kind of interesting? BL: Agronomy. That's what it's called now. KW: Oh, is it? BL: Yeah, where it crosses it goes south of University Drive or Raymond Stolzer or whatever you want to call it. Cashion Cabin sat there on the west side of the road with just a little... Well, the building now is out at Hensel Park, the same one. KW: Oh, that building, yes. BL: Well, it was. It may be gone now. KW: The Cashion. Was Cashion here when you were attending the Y? BL: He was secretary of the Y. KW: Secretary of the YMCA. Well, anything else you all would like to add. BL: Oh my. RW: Oh, I would just like to tell a personal story. It was something exciting that happened. It wasn't too long after the folks built this house that we had our friends- our families were friends- and Pete Adams who lived in Bryan and was an Aggie and a member of the Singing Cadets. And I was having a slumber party, and so I'm sure my mother arranged for Pete to bring some of his friends from the Singing Cadets. And I'll never forget, we girls, we rushed out onto the balcony, practically hung out over the balcony as these boys were serenading us. And then, of course, they were invited in for hot chocolate and cookies and we pushed back the furniture and we all danced in the living room. You know, I mean, that was (sigh) so exciting. KW: That was exciting. RW: It really was. KW: What year did your folks move out there. RW: Well, I think the house must have been built, I think in '39 or '40. I'll never forget when my parents bought the lot. I used to ride my bicycle and sent on the stone and think, "This is ours." It was a wonderful house. We're thrilled it's still in the family. ME: Well, I have a little story to tell. This last winter, I got a letter from a woman in New York City and she said that her father- he was a chef on the railroad- and she wondered what I could tell her about her father- that he said in his book that he had learned to cook from my mother, in her kitchen, that that was how he learned to cook and that's why he was a chef and he left home very early. And there is a book and he's written up in the book of all the railroad chefs. I wrote her and told her his mother was the caterer- she catered all the parties on campus. And my mother wasn't a cook. He didn't learn from her, but he learned from his mother, probably in my mother's kitchen. In 1923, Fannie 30 KW: ME: KW: ME: KW: ME: BL: ME: BL: KW: BL: KW: BL: KW: BL: KW: HP: BL: KW: BL: KW: went with us. We drove in our old to Mississippi. We went every summer and Preston was two or three and she went with us to look after Preston and his mother. And I was able to write and tell her about that and we do even have a picture of Fannie taken with us in the . And this woman is an opera singer in New York City and she teaches at... I think she teaches in at one of the big schools. She teaches there and tried to find something out about her father, her family. Then it's probably not a black family. I thought maybe it was a black family. Oh, it is a black family. It is a black family? The family was black, but she catered for everybody. She was a wonderful cook, but that summer she went with us to Mississippi to look after Preston because my mother couldn't. Well, that's a good story. And they've been pursuing ?... I found Brooks Cofer told her to get a hold of me. Anyway, they own property here and she was going to sell it. She got a hold of Brooks Cofer and he told her, so she wrote me and that's how she contacted me. Do you remember her name? No, but I have all of her letters from her. She wrote and I wrote her. She sent me pictures of her and who was her manager and everything. That's interesting. That is. Bing Crosby's wife stayed at our house long before she was Mrs. Bing Crosby. Got the grand staff. And she probably stayed at one of those weekends. They always bought such beautiful clothes. She actually double dated with my little brother. She dated a friend of my brother's. Quite a few famous people came through here, so we've all had that experience. We'll, we have done very well. Bill, what do you think? Very well. This is one of the better sessions I think we've had. I think this is wonderful. Don't get started. Well, what happened here is we had opportunity to elaborate even more, that because we've Well, you're all encouraged to add. Yes, add, add, add. What about pictures? a copy of what we had said here and had an if they can at all. Don't want people to be shy about this smattering of information. 31 The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. with : The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews (Name of Interviewee) 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center_ Adviscv Committee. Interviewer (signature) Date c)/ /g q WTI' LL Interviewer (Please Print) I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. kip -1 Interviewer (Please Print) Signature of Interviewer n )43 Place of Interview List of photos. documents, mans, etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET 2 jefA, r .t IM &s pQ regi Intervi wee (Please int) Signature of Interviewee Name s'� Lo 1 1 1 P Ave Address 1.04 - 1'2-01 Telephon6 ' Date of Birth 1— 3 - 2 $ Place of Birth 7t, Ja . LL1 �vs p . Irvia.ru INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed" to -4--' n ,/f A In progress Ale d4-a K - 1AL�C11 e. Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. / // Date Initial Irg �, Sf 7730 I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. mg? Ram PG K Interviewee (Please print) Signatur a of Interviewee Interviewer (Please Print Signature of Interviewer Rdw / Place of Interview List of photos, documents. mans. etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET Name d ress�► 19 43 -6r / Telephone Date of Birth_ ) p Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial In progress HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. , / L / d / 4K1 aftlrert_ Intervie le se print) Signature of In erviewee it � 1 Interview (Please Pri Signature of Interviewer P ace of Interview List of photos, documents, mans, etc. Name 3-03 yc i ai Address b4i4 ,-a d' ( Telephone Date of Birth w 7 /- 2 Place of Birth 4 LegE ST I+I TX INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. °'& / /1/1 /W v Date Initial 0.5 n< 'iiPVo List of photos, documents, mans, etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. [ , _ n ervie ee (• ase print) 'Interviewer Please Prin ) Signatu of Interviewer 06M !d3 Place of Interview Signatu - of In erviewee Name S (,, r. W ► ,le Address 1- ( 7- S3 Telephdne _ Date of Birth I - �-S - q z Place of Birth j a_.,✓ INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. 1 /988 Date Initial