HomeMy WebLinkAboutTransportation Panel Group 04City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
This is a 1 - . Today is A'6�-e /6 ,
(month) (day) (year)
I'm interviewing for the 1' time 6ronii5
,
(Mr., Mrs.,
5a voi, ► Coseor /i4,947A at4 /16 `rteo v , i-rao v-e. A 1 r
Miss, Ms., Dr., Etc.)
This interview is taking place in Room / 0 z- of The
3 .4f, at 1300 George Bush Dr.
College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the
Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference
Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station,
Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project.
Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is
identifiable on the tape recorder.
The City of College Station, Texas
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
INTERVIEW AGREEMENT
The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and
preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape
recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the
archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and
Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may
be determined.
with
(Name of Interviewee)
i vot'S D4r 7.
• , rtaL, CA) er a w dery, 8.
► • Ael 0 Erw g r cPi7 9_
4 • (Ma lien 10.
5.
6.
I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews
11.
12.
In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights,
title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic
('reservation Committee and Confereny, � nter dvisory Committee.
Interviewer (signature)
Date /4›, /'7'7( ,
e II i � rr Qu is _ j 4 tv 67?
Interviewer (Please Print)
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
Interrviewer (Please Print)
a
erviewer
Place of Interview
Signature of I
List of nhotos. documents, mans. etc.
Interviewee (Please print)
/7 3A-- 470,c,
Signa of Interviewee
Name
Address
3 5 /.e /4 ' / 7'7 ,ft�,5
Telephone S'1
Date of Birth 4/7/97
Place of Birth
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
Date
Initial
In progress
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. rr 1�
-, ,L) /2 , 14 k.).. r/ / o C g-r/ De-,n/
Interviewee (Pl print)
S ignature of Interviewee
!ce?, A tt_ c r,V . # ic-4 4 ,LA dt/ 6,o ry .s_Ca P-ce J
Name
Address
Telephone '7/ - 7 7 , - 41--3 4 f
Date of Birth _ " - 4%. . / /
Place of Birth RP ,/,4»J. 7
'
Ellen M- J02 c7
"4- '
Interviewer (Please Print)
Signatu5e of I, erviewer
n
� n [C ( ?. CeA(2-
Place of Interviell
List of photos, documents, mans. etc.
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
1 C1 /0
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed
Date
Initial
In progress
/24/k /02.,
Place of Interview
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
_A-RA- . �3t,4-16
In } rview�ee (Please print)
/ W
Signature of Interviewee
4 LK
St,. L J, S Q!e J Md A M veer c n�
Name
4 77 CA
Address
E7,, iN &-e
Interviewer (Please Print)
- 711 1 .0-14a4 .
gnatu e of Ij terviewer
6qt -4r7e
Telephone
Date of Birth 2'v /9i3
Place of Birth Sri to
Date
Initial
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed ✓
In progress
List of photos, documents, mans. etc. C4 pies n - Gd ,jp f be. A p4-e p4-ea rPAte.f
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
City of College Station, Texas 77840
ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET
I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College
Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and
contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of
original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed.
Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all
claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense
thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of,
any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the
parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties
hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with
Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of
action in whole or in part are covered by insurance.
Interviewee (Please print)
Signature of Interviewee
Name
gy 4/, V
Address
Telephone`
Date of Birth �L /et$ 12
Place of Birth G u.,
E/ /&M 771. /40,e,v
Interviewer (Please Print)
r A f t-
Signatu of In viewer
Place
of Interview
List of uhotos, documents, mans. etc.
INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed �
Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and
employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability
of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property,
arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by
CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such
indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in
whole or in part from the negligence of city.
Date
Initial
77C(16
In progress
co rks:
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: ar,Spe),/-424A4,1
Oral History Stage Sheet
Name 50.�� �/1 r+ n Interview No.
A tits ( o ir- La r idi, c Interview date 1
lnterviewerEl e tr �l,�e
yC Interview length
interview Place �1 hm ,,ti,,ti in ea `
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape dis •• I f :
Given to interviewee • n ■ i Received Yes No
Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by
,( Pages Date
Sent to interviewee on
) 19(ame)
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by Pages Date
(name)
Final copies: Typed by Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
2' Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
e. _ .rks:
Final copies: Typed by
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Memoryy�Lane:T:81NA 5��`'
(_ �Q j fP Interview No.
Name
/-fit /er, Interview date LI _ ( - 910
Interviewer rite n?OCQ u _ 1-kre vl e r Interview length
Interview PlaceP„,,, �.
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received Yes No
Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by Sent to interviewee on / 1I 1q1/
Received from interviewee on Cj /1
Copy editing and second audit check by
Proofread by: 1)
(name)
ame)
Pages Date
Pages
Pages Date
Pages Date
Pages Date
Date:
Date:
2'
Photos out for reproduction: Where to:
Original photos returned to:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
Croce
Date I*
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Memory Lane: r C - . bh
Oral History Stage Sheet
Name Int erview No.
�c�k� � Interview date 41—I(c -9(.
lnterviewerLI [e (Yl r,r �; s - (4, n o f Interview length
Interview Place 2 �,� 7 Z- '�
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received
Date Signed R Yes No
Restrictions- if yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by
Pages Date
(name)
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on �? 101
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
(name)
Pages Date
Pages Date
(name)
Final copies: Typed by Pages Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
) Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
•
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bin dery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
_.. ..arks:
Memory Lane: 604v5 por co
First audit check by
Sent to interviewee on
Final copies: Typed by
City of College Station
Memory Lanes Oral History Project
Oral History Stage Sheet
Name n, a■c\ Interview No.
° ° Interview date - /(p_ y f „
Interviewer . a✓ Interview length
Interview Place
Special sources of information
Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date
Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd
Describe Photos
Interview Agreement and tape disposal form:
Given to interviewee on Received
Date Signed Restrictions- Yes No
estrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No
Transcription:
First typing completed by
Pages Date
(name)
C) Iv i l(G (name)
Received from interviewee on
Copy editing and second audit check by
(name)
Pages Date
Pages
Pages Date
Date
Proofread by: 1) Pages Date
Z, Pages Date
Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date:
Original photos returned to: Date:
Indexed by: Date
Sent to bindery by Date
Received from bindery Date
Deposited in archives by: Date
irks:
Moderator - Ellen Marquis- Horner
Interviewees- Claire Allen
Sara Allen Cofer Landon
Sarah Holmgreen
Brooks Cofer
SA- I'd like to introduce, this is my cousin Claire Allen.
EM- Wait, wait a minute. Okay she's got to turn this on. It's on?
Yes ma'am
SA- This is my cousin Claire Allen, who married into the Allen family. She
married the grandson of the founder of Allen Academy, John Allen, who had just
passed away. Claire Allen is my guest today.
CA- Thank you.
SA- And I'm Sara Allen Cofer Landon. I live in Houston. What else shall I say? I
was born in Bryan, but that was just temporary. We lived in an apartment at
College station.
EM- Okay, and how long were you here?
SA- Urn, until I married in 1946.
EM- Okay.
She didn't tell her birthdate though, did she?
SA- I will tell you I don't mind. I was born September the eighth, 1919.
EM- Okay. He was too. Very good.
BC- Okay, I'm Brooks Cofer. I was born in 1922 on the campus. I live here in
Bryan and practice law.
EM- Good.
SH- I'm Sarah Holmgreen. I was born in Peking, China in 1923, but I have lived
in this area, with the exception of college and three years, for seventy -one years.
EM- Okay as we go through our interviews I would like to ask your cooperation
with a few things. If we have spelling that we need to have, if you would spell
words and if you would please not let more than one person talk at once. Okay,
sometimes we will get carried away and people say "Oh yeah," and so we have
two or three people talking and it's hard to transcribe it. Particularly the spelling
of the names of people and possibly places and places of business. I have
looked over what they want today and I am going to (If I can find my questions
here) we're going to divide things up into (Got too many papers, just a minute.)
Gracie, Sarah has some questions about documents.
G- Okay.
SH- I brought a bunch of pictures and stuff and I thought you would like to look
through them. [- garbled ]
EM- It's not too bright, bright is it for you? Did the light bother you?
EM- Okay let's start with childhood if you were here, as part of record we would
like to know where you were born and lived and where you went to school and
how you got there. So, Sarah could we start with you?
SH- I lived in (Sarah Holmgreen) I lived in Bryan on East 31st Street and walked
to school because I went to Travis school. Then we moved when I got to high
school out near the location of the triangle on South College Avenue and I either
rode the bus or bummed a ride with my father when he came in to work. After
that I was driving, so I could go where I wanted to.
EM- Okay, Brooks.
BC- Our question is how we got to school?
EM- Urn hum. You've already told us where you were born. You were born on
the campus.
BC- Well, I rode a bicycle or walked.
EM- OK and where was the school?
BC- On the campus at, where the old music hall was and then high school was
Pfifer Hall; down from the academic building. I usually walked to school,
actually.
EM- Sara.
SL- Well, my home originally, though I was born in Bryan in my grandmother's
home. The first home that my family had was an old bachelor apartment that had
been converted into four apartments for faculty members. My first school was the
original A &M Consolidated School building at um, well, at that time College
2
Station didn't have named streets. Later on I went to school at the old Pfifer Hall
and then when I went away to College I came back and worked in the
condemned laundry which was at that time the Agri - Aeronautical Engineering
department.
EM -OK, where did you go to college and how did you get there?
SL- I went to college, Randolph Macon Women's College in Lynchburg, Virginia.
And of course, we went by train and we sent our trunks ahead which were picked
up. We usually got on the train here if it made connections with a train in
Hearne. Otherwise, our family drove us to Hearne and we caught the train
there.
EM- OK, now you say here did you get the train in College Station?
SL- College Station. As a matter of fact, whether it stopped in Bryan I'm not sure.
BC- Oh yes.
SL- It did? Okay. Well later I think the Sundays it might of stopped in Bryan. Is
that right?
BC- The Hustler. The Hustler didn't stop in Bryan. The Hustler stopped only
between Houston and Dallas at College Station and Ennis.
For water.
BC- Up the line. And it was kind of a speed train, a new invention, but it made a
specific stop in College Station, both coming and going from Dallas to Houston.
EM- OK. OK, we're going to get back to trains in just a minute. Claire.
CA- I can't give you any information. I was born in Crosby, Minnesota. I married
into the Allen family. That's all I can say.
EM- OK. OK, let's get back to the trains for a minute. Do you remember what it
cost to ride to Houston or what the cost to ride to Virginia was? Any
recollection?
SL- I have no idea . We might go back to Papa's checkbook and see.
BC- Used to know guys that would get on the train in Bryan and ride to College
or College and ride to Bryan. I think that you could pay the conductor fifteen to
twenty cents or the like and ride the train.
3
SH- No, I was lucky, I got to ride the train for free. Daddy was the physician for
the Southern Pacific rail line. So we had a pass that I could use till I was twenty -
one, and it worked halfway to Waco. From Bremond, one had to take a bus.
SL- Well I spoke. I'm the only one here who rode the old electrical trolley.
When we went to Allen Academy for Sunday dinner with our grandmother we got
on the trolley at College Station, probably right about where Walton Hall is right
now and rode all the way to Bryan down Ursaline Avenue and got off at Allen
Academy. Then later, there was a bus that went from College Station to Bryan.
BC- Well, the station was where the chapel is now.
SL- That's probably it.
BC- That's where it's at, the station was on campus and it went to downtown
Bryan by the old fire, the first fire station is, where the Eagle building was at one
time.
SH- All I remember are the tracks on College Avenue which is now Texas
Avenue.
SL- The bus station was a block from Main street. A block east of Main Street.
BC- That's right, yeah.
EM- What about the schedule for the, uh. Let's go back to trains: trains trolleys
and the buses. Do you remember anything? Have any recall about that?
BC- Well the buses ran hourly.
SL- I think so.
EM- Oh.
BC- Actually, between Bryan and College Station. That was the main trip.
SH- There were innumerable trains from here to Houston and Houston to Dallas.
Three or four a day, I think three a day going each way, at least. One about
noon, one late in the afternoon.
EM- Did the trolleys and buses, were they there at the same time?
The bus replaced the trolley.
BC- Poppy said that the first inter -urban was gasoline operated.
4
I didn't remember that.
BC- And then it was electrified. That is, the Bryan and College Station
interurban and then after the trolleys left, we had the gasoline bus. He used to
tell us about pushing the car up Union hill on an ill -fated trip to visit the Bryan
400.
EM- That's very interesting. Do you remember anything if there were any hobos
on the train? Do you have any experience about that?
BC- Sure. They used to come around begging the campus houses.
SL- Yeah, that's right. During the Depression. Why that was frequently they
came. And you didn't turn them away. You were glad to offer them.
BC- But you see the campus was off from the station so much, though there was
a spur that came from Missouri Pacific station to the mess hall and power plant
and coal was used to operate the power plant or bring the supplies to the mess
hall for meals that were served.
SL- And occasionally on Thanksgiving for the turkey day, a special train would
come up with the people from Austin. They used to have football specials, you
see, that's where you get it. And then when the Corps trips occurred, why you
took it to Dallas, or Fort Worth, or Houston. Why, they would have any number
of trains that would come pick up the Corps and go to Dallas and Ft. Worth, and
then bring back, you see.
EM- Did College Station Consolidated have football?
BL- No.
SL- No.
SH- Trips. That's something we didn't miss. We had specials like they were
talking about to football games; it was all kids, mamas and daddies, and the
band, and the football players, and everything. Particularly trips to Mexia,
Corsicana, Waxahachie, Waco, and those were really fun.
EM- Those trains, I can't imagine that, that's very interesting. Do you remember
any incidence about the hobos?
SH- Not so many because we lived in Bryan, away from the railroad tracks. Oh,
I used to see a few; for a little while we lived in what is now part of the county
Health office, Wilkerson Memorial Clinic in 1931 -32. And it was right across the
block where the public library, is now from the Southern Pacific depot. My
5
favorite hangout was the depot. The station manager put up with my brother and
me. We used to [ see ] some of the men riding the trains, but we saw very few
actually panhandling. They did, I know because people who lived closer to the
railroad had numerous people coming and knocking on the door, asking for work
or food or this sort of thing.
EM- Urn, uh.
SH- Particularly as Sarah Allen said during the 30's, during the Depression.
EM- Sarah Allen, you mentioned that you could look at Papa's checkbook
(laughter), if you, if you have that information; that would really be neat to have
that.
SL- Actually. Actually, it is a very detailed account of his expenditures from the
time that he came to Texas A &M in 1910. I'm told. I, I don't know, Bubby has
part of the ledgers, I, I haven't had one.
BC- I think I used to have some, but I may have disposed of them, or I think I
gave you and Dittedee each one for some year.
SL- But they, they are fascinating and yes, if I knew that they could be preserved
I might... possibly you could make copies of them.
EM- I was going to say, (SL- Because.) if you could have copies made or if
Gracie copy them.
SL- Yes, it really is a very, very interesting account. How much he paid for help.
How much he paid for groceries, and to whom. It's fabulous.
BC- Well, especially the days when you were receiving state warrants for your
teaching services.
SL- Well that came later, that was during the Depression. That was in the 30's.
You see, you received... it was a promise to pay from the state, which Travis
Bryan down at First National wanted to discount it, yes, so you could get some
operating money for that particular month.
EM- Hum. (Yeah) Everybody had to help everybody else didn't they?
BC- Oh yeah. (Yeah) In those days.
EM- What did you remember about hitch - hiking?
BC- Oh...(lots of laughter)
6
SL- Well, we didn't do it. (more laughter) We picked them up, and there was
never any question about picking up a man in uniform.
BC- What, who was the famous Aggie hitchhiker?
SL- Oh, that hitch - hiker, oh. All over everywhere.
BC- All over the United States. There were certain rules that you followed if you
were in the Corps and were hitch - hiking. It didn't matter what your classification
was. When you arrived at the scene, you put your bag down and in that order
the rides were accepted based on your location in line. So your bag could be
ahead of a Senior.
EM- Oh really?
BC- You could go any place like that. And hitchhiking was a way of life among
the cadets because my freshman year in thirty -nine, I think there were something
like sixty vehicles owned by the students. And that was a very small parking lot.
So, In order to get around some way, either by the railroad or hitch - hiking,
hitchhiking was quite a fad.
SH- Every weekend there was line at the Eastgate going south and a line across
the street going north, and on the corner of 25th it was then, and College
Avenue. There was always a line on that road to Dallas or going west. And like
Sarah said, you never passed an Aggie if you had any room in your car.
SL- I often thought they took down the license numbers (laughter) for retribution
or, or some such.
SH- And that continued through W.W.II, really. Even maybe. But, I think after
the civilian students started coming and people were more affluent there were
more cars.
EM- OK, let's get to the airplane service. Now I know Sarah has quite a bit
about the Civil Air Patrol and...
SH- Actually, mine is mostly about private flying.
EM- That's fine.
SH- I brought a little map that I sketched in several fields that were privately
owned and used. The one that my father and Byron Black first started flying
from was where Bryan High School is now, a cow pasture airport. Then, they
transferred the scene of operations to Leonard Road, where Bittle Lane
7
8
intersects it which is on the western edge of Bryan. This was a much larger field
and even had a couple of hangers built there. But still it was private aviation
with barnstormers, and air shows, and this sort of thing. Then Coulter Field
was established about the time of W.W.II. At that time we lived on College Road
where Old College Road and College Road intersect now. And there was a
private air strip that belonged to my father in the triangle formed by Old College
Road and Wellborn Road. Was about sixty -five acres in there that was just
open land with some trees and he had a hanger right in our front yard that he
kept his plane in. And then Guy Davis and Robert Putz had hangers down at the
other end, closer to Wellborn Road. They used the field, taught lessons there
and everything. In summertime, one or two summers in the late thirties, early
forties, the cotton dusters dusting cotton down in the Brazos bottom, stayed at
our field. They parked their planes along the fence in front of our house and
took off like the Dawn Patrol every morning. Even before that there was a place
out here at College. I thought it was just about where 2818 and Wellborn Road
intersect. But I...
BC- You're, you're right. It's, I think, about where the Kanas lived, on Wellborn
Road, and the barnstormers used to come in there.
SH- The barnstormers used to come in there, put on shows and take people for
rides. I think, my first airplane ride was in a Ford tri -motor off the little field on
Leonard Road; it was horrifying (chuckling). During W.W.II they established a
Civil Air Patrol because of German submarines in the Gulf. It was decided there
weren't enough military aircraft to patrol our Gulf Coast. I know Daddy served
down there in 1942, Summer of 1942. They had organized a wing here, that
both my father and father -in -law were in. And they went, some of them went
down to the Gulf Coast to patrol there. And they said no more submarines were
sighted after the civilian airplanes began their patrols.
EM- Hey Sarah, give me your father's name.
SH- L.O. Wilkerson, Dr. L.O. Wilkerson.
EM- Initials L.O.?
SH- Yes.
EM.- Did you get that?
SH- W- I- L- K- E- R- S -O -N. One other thing interesting about the little airport
where Daddy learned to fly, the one where the high school is now. He had the
most beautiful little airplane you ever saw. He had it about three or four weeks.
He had been flying solo about that long. He and Byron Black were both flying
that day and he came in to land, and came in too slowly, and just flat buried that
9
little airplane about two blocks south of that airport. He was fortunate enough to
get out of it. He didn't walk away from it; they had to pry him loose from the
wreck. But he recovered completely. Some of the pictures that I brought are
before and after of that airplane. Of course, W.W.II changed everything around
here, military aviation and civilian flying. Easterwood was a big plus. There
were students here, during the war at the University that were taking pre - flight.
They were Marine students, taking pre - flight training out of Easterwood, and of
course Bryan Air Force base was training instrument pilots at that time. There
was a lot of civilian aviation. It just boomed after the war, for there were army
surplus planes to be bought. Lots and lots of people flying. On my map I also
marked the sites of two forced landings that happened during the war. One man
landed an AT -6 in the Polo Field, had to dismantle the airplane to get it out.
There was not room for it to take off because of a ditch right across the middle of
the field. And he didn't have enough room to get off on either side of the ditch.
Then, there was a twin - engine airplane. I don't know whether it was a bomber,
one of the twin- engine small bombers or whether it was a trainer that landed
behind the F &B station which is right off of 2818 now, west - northwest of the
campus.
BC- Well, the reason you had those incidents was that the Aggies in service
liked to show off a little bit when they were flying through this part of the country,
and they would buzz the college.
EM- Yeah (laughter).
SH- One man that buzzed the bonfire didn't do so well; he pulled the wings off
his airplane (Yeah). The airplane continued across the railroad, pieces of wing
landed on the Bonfire field in front of the MSC's current location. Then the
airplane fuselage landed across the railroad tracks (Yeah).
EM- Do you remember when that was?
SH- Uh, no. The MSC may have already been built.
BC- No, the MSC wasn't here.
SH- It was in- was it in the 50's?
BC- I would say it was through the war.
SH- Through the war. I can't remember. It was in the 40's or 50's. But, urn, that
was the buzz that shouldn't have happened.
EM- Okay, before we go on , what was your father -in law's name?
SH- E.N. Holmgreen, Elmer Holmgreen. He was associated with the university
before the war. And then after the war, was with the government in the Marshall
Plan.
EM- Okay, do you all remember when you had you had your first plane ride?
Brooks?
BC- I don't know whether I took a flight down there on one of those barnstormers
or not. I doubt that I did. I probably was during the war that I took my first plane
ride. Either coming back or visiting, but I did take a lot of plane rides during the
war. But I think that the first one was probably returning for a visit.
EM- Sara?
SL- I was a little leery. I don't think I made any plane ride until I went to my, urn,
daughter -in -law's reception in Arkansas in, sometime,. I'm trying to think. It
must, must have been in the early '70's. But I was married and living in Houston
and it was not from College Station.
EM- Okay. Claire?
CA- It must have been 1973 before I had got on the plane.
EM- Okay and Sarah. (Well, Sarah was practically born on a plane.) I was going
to say Sarah were you a pilot, did you take flying lessons?
SH- I soloed out of Easterwood in 1946. But my first plane ride was in a Curtis -
Pusher which was a highwing monoplane with a rear engine and just a little kind
of capsule out in front for the passenger and the pilot in tandem. It looked like
tissue paper and bamboo. This was back in 1932 or '33, and that was the
airplane my father learned to fly in. It belonged to a cousin of my mother's. He
was one of the barnstormers. and they came here that summer.
EM - Have a name, can you give us a name?
SH - Lawrence Hughes, H- U- G- H -E -S. They spent the summer here, and he
taught people to fly. Guy Davis was one of the boys that was always out at the
airport, he became the owner of Davis Airlines, which was really our first
commercial airline. Matter of fact his first, the first commercial airplane was one
that he bought from my father a Beech Craft Bonanza which was a 4- passenger
airplane. And started Davis Airline with it.
EM - Oh, that's very interesting. Uh -do you remember who some of the other
early pilots were, and airplane owners?
10
SH - Robert Putz, as I mentioned earlier and Guy, Byron Black, James Vance,
J. E. Vance was, one of the people that was interested. I don't know if he ever
owned an airplane or not, then there was Mr. Dick Cardwell, who was the
manager of.. .
SH - Coulter Field.
BC - Coulter Field, that's right.
SH - And then in the '40's it just multiplied. I have no idea how many people
there were involved in flying from then on. Claude Edge who owned and was a
partner in Lilly Creamery was pilot in the '40's and '50's and somebody else, but
I can't remember now. Lots and lots of people were flying, particularly after the
war so many of the young men that came back who were trained pilots flew, got
into all of sorts things when flying.
BC - But Joe, he continued after he was a fighter pilot
SH - But he kept up in the Air Force Reserves, the squadron that was here that
went down to Ellington to fly. You missed the fly over.
Em - That's Joe Holmgreen her, who was her husband
11
SH - Oh - there were, I guess 15 young men who lived here immediately after
the war, going to school. They went to Houston twice a month to Ellington Field
and flew to keep up their flying status in the reserves. At final review in 1948,
they did a fly over the unit was out on the field there, in front of Memorial Student
Center, and they came in on a V formation in AT -6's, four of them maybe.
EM - Do you recall anything else that we might could record for posterity?
SH - Lots of silly personal things.
EM - Well? Tell us one or two that are very outstanding to you Sarah.
SH - Oh, one was my own flying adventure. I had flown with my father a good
bit, and had handled the controls just in the air, and when I started taking flying
Hal Murray was my instructor at Easterwood. I guess I'd had a couple hours
solo, I got in the pattern to land; there was a plane on the ground in front of me,
and one right behind me. I thought, I can't do this, I can't go in between those
two. So, I did what I thought you were supposed to do. I pulled up out of the
traffic, turned to my right and pulled up sharply to 500 ft. to go around again.
When I got on the ground Daddy was there, he said "what were you trying to do,
were you trying to kill yourself ?" I said, "No sir, I had full air speed, I was
watching my air speed indicator carefully." He said, "Well, you better watch it
12
more carefully from now on," because he thought I was going to do what he had
done and stall out, ruin somebody's airplane. Joe and I were engaged at the
time and he was working laying out the plans for the student housing north of the
campus where the brick houses are. He had a turquoise Ford Coupe, and when
I was taking flying lessons I'd go circle his turquoise Ford Coupe out there. We
used to really have a lot of fun, the airport was just "the hang out place" for a lot
of children my age, because everybody was so fascinated and it was so new.
Every Sunday afternoon, everybody was at the airport. Oh I forgot too when
mother and daddy moved out on farm road 60, they had a farm out around the
Brazos River to the left of farm road 60. Daddy had a hanger, and flew from out
there until he had a loss of sight in one eye for several hours and decided that it
was time for him to quit flying without another pilot in the plane with him, I think it
was in '56. So he never flew again alone. He used to fly on medical calls. Lots
of times people in Normangee or Madisonville even further away than that would
call him and ask him to come see them, he'd say, "OK, I'll buzz your house,
come pick me up." (Oh) so he'd fly, there was little field over at Normangee, not
really an airfield, but a pasture big enough to land in. and there was one close
to Madisonville, and lots of times he'd just land in a field down in the bottom if he
wanted to fly down there and visit a patient. Every once in a while he'd fly
somebody to Houston that needed medical attention that was not available here,
patients that were well enough to fly, rather than driving. Its much more fun to
fly.
EM - The farm that your father had, was that a working farm?
SH - Yes ma'am, we had cattle and raised feed. In Normangee, we had a little
place where we raised corn, and we had a cattle feeding operation out on FM
60. We had enough acreage there to have cattle. Now I don't know whether it
was self supporting, but, well I think it probably was back then, but then when
the drought came along in 1954 we had about 2 -3 years of drought when it just
became almost impossible to make any money feeding cattle and so we decided
to give it up.
EM - When he sold his cattle how did he get them to market? And where was the
market
SH - There was an auction barn here in the early 50's. A lot of times, if you had
registered cattle and wanted to sell them, you'd have an auction on your farm.
We had one dispersal sale out there, and then cattle were brought in to the
auction barn here in town. People would come and buy, and truck them out in
the 50's.
EM - How did you dispose of the corn? Or sell.
SH - You fed it to the cattle
EM - OK there was no selling of it
SH - No, we raised it strictly for feedlot. It was sort of an experimental thing back
then. When A &M got rid of their Cavlary horses they had an auction in
downtown Bryan, on Bryan Street, between 25th and 24th St. They blocked off
the street and had an open air auction of the horses. And I bid against Daddy.
Do you remember Denmark, Sergeant Segar's little mare?
SL - Oh, yes in fact I, I took horse backing riding lessons on Saturday mornings
and uh, I remembered the horses were numbered 27 and 29 were the gentle
ones that they saved for the little girls. You wanted 27 or 29.
SH - Denmark was Sergeant Segar's own little horse and I wanted her so badly
and I was bidding on her, so was Daddy at that auction. Finally somebody
poked me in the ribs, (I didn't go with my father obviously,) said, "Do you know
who you are bidding against ?" I said, "No, but I want that horse." They said,
"Well shut up and you'll get it ".
Did you?
SH - Yeah, daddy bought her and another horse from the Cavalry. One thing
wrong with her, she was petrified of cattle. And you wouldn't have thought so
because she grew up over there by the cattle barn. But you couldn't work cattle
from her, I found out.
SL - He was quite a character anyway.
SH - Sergeant Seegar?
BC & SL - Yeah, he really was
SH - He was here with the regular Calvary and he was sort of Major Domo over
the Calvary stable and equitation, taught all of us kids how to ride.
SL - In fact, I remember that some of the professor's wives, in the early days
when their children were small decided to take riding lessons, a Captain Buckley
in the Calvary was getting up this class, and I remember my mother persuaded
her neighbor, Mrs. John Mitchell, to go. And finally Captain Buckley said "You
know you ladies bother me just a little bit with all your young children at home
and these calvary horses are not exactly the best for you ".
EM - I want to return to the streets in Bryan - College Station just a few, uh,
minutes. Uh Sarah, I know you live over on Timber, Right?
13
SH - Yes, ma'am
EM - OK Can you tell us a little bit about that subdivision and the streets and uh,
how, well
SH - We moved onto Timber from what is now Winding Rd. in 1960. Glade St.
was a lane that went down to the creek and stopped. There was no Anderson
St. Park Place did not go through, it went to Glade and up on that hill where the
apartments are now, Taos and Scandia.
EM - Scandia?
SH - Yes, was dairy farm, the Dobrovolny's, I believe it was the Dobrovolny's
dairy farm, I know there was a barn up there and windmill and all that, but I don't
remember when those streets were really developed. But it was in the early to
mid 60's.
SL - Well the first streets in South Oakwood, you better check me on this were
Pershing and uh Lee, and Suffolk. And they were north of Glade, you see,
Glade was well
EM - Fairview, was Fairview one of them Fairview, or did that come later.
SL - Oh, no it was probably about the same time over there where Madeley's
Drug Store was. No it was probably.. .
EM - And Dexter?
SL - Probably
SH - What was the Scoates Lakes. Wasn't that Scoates Lake.
SL - Yes, Scoates Lake became College Park. And at first there was just the
winding road, the circle around and then they went out to... and then Pershing.
Herschell Burgess started South Oakwood after College Park
SH -
SL - Well, actually no it wasn't it was just right east, it was just east of it.
EM - Over toward Wellborn Road?
SL - No, No, No, that's west.
EM - OK, all right I'm sorry, I'm turned around, OK
14
SL - Right where the little Episcopal Church is now.
SH - We lived on Taurus, which is now Winding Road, when the Knoll was
being developed.
EM - When what was being developed?
SH - The Knoll, the area known as the Knoll is where Caudill, Orr, Lawyer
streets are, in that general area.
EM - Over by South Knoll, OK uh hum
SH - Yes, they call that area the Knoll, and a lot of the architects, built homes in
there. Of course Claudill had a home there.
SL - Bill Hensel lives on Winding right now.
SH - Everything, really, literally, south of what is now Holleman, wasn't that was
just pasture.
That was just pasture
SH - Right when we came in '71, Southwest Parkway was not through to Texas
Avenue, that was all pasture. I can recall behind our house on Guadalupe it was
hoses grazed there.
SH - It's amazing, because when we lived out at Timberlake, which was there at
the bend of Old College Road, we were way out in the country. We were even
out further than the old Bryan Country Club. My goodness !!! There were very
few houses in that area, except right in the middle, what they called "Midway"
where old Sulfur Spring Road was
SL - Dr. Ehlinger had one of the first houses out there
EM - And what about the streets and road in Bryan? 29th into urn
SL - Ursuline back over there, Sarah would probably know more about Bryan.
SH - Actually, 29th went out as far as where the High School is because that
where they had the airport in 1932 or '33, but it was a dirt road. And from. . .
EM - Your talking about Bryan High School now.
SH - Yes ma'am
15
EM - OK
SH - From Coulter Dr. south was pasture. Almost all the way. There were 2
farms if I remember particularly on 29th St. south of Coulter Drive, but they were
not more than 1/2 a mile south of Coulter then there were farms out where that
little shopping center is now on 29th street.
Em - Where Winn Dixie is?
16
SH - A little bit, yeah, a little bit back towards town from there but in that general
vicinity there were a couple of three farms, and if you were on roads which were
literally just almost two track wide, worn spots. Going to where the Pebble Creek
is now, that land, part of that land use to belong to my grandfather. One went to
Wellborn east on what is now Greens Prairie Road, past the cemetery in Well-
born, then one started opening gates and one went through peoples pastures to
get over beyond, where highway 6 is now. Used to have to open gaps, and
gates and go on roads that were really cow tracks, and that was something when
that highway opened up and one could drive down to the gate of the farm. All
the roads were like that, they were just bare track in lots of places.
EM - Impassable in rainy time?
SH - And sometime in summer too because the sand would get so deep, you'd
get stuck in the sand back in the days when you had those little narrow tires.
starting to the Model T's
SL - I, I remember my mother mentioned that when she was chairman of public
health in Brazos county she had a public health nurse, and they would go down
into the bottom, but they always kept Saturday Evening Post in the trunk of the
car, so that they could put them down for the car to drive over. That was
probably in the early 30's.
SH - A lot of the old bridges across the river are gone. The ones that we used to
drive over. I know the one across the Little Brazos, north of Hwy. 21, and Old
Jones Bridge north of Hwy. 60 and Koppe Bridge south, west of Wellborn - all
those bridges are gone. Jones Bridge used to be a ferry actually, then they
replaced it with bridge.
EM - Was that the only Ferry in the area?
SH - It was not operating in my memory but that bridge was built before we came
out here. I don't know whether there was a place called Batts Ferry B- A -T -T -S
Ferry
BC - That's out at Wellborn
SH - It is
BC - yes
SH - I didn't remember where it was. Probably where Koppe Bridge was.
BC - Close to Koppe
SH - And the, wasn't there a ferry north somewhere, up in the northern end of
the county?
BC - Oh, there, I saw something once on the Ferry crossings on the Brazos
where they were.
SH - I don't remember
EM - There was one down, an, close to where the Starberry Public Museum is
now, right north of there across the Brazos
SH - That would be out probably out of Brazos County.
EM - Yeah, it would be in between Grimes and Burleson I guess.
SH - When I was growing up, Dad, being a doctor, made house calls, morning,
noon, or night. Lots of time he'd bundle us all up in the car and we'd go with
him. So we got to know the back roads of Brazos County pretty well. Maybe
even at midnight mother would bundle us up,put us in the back of the car,and off
we'd go; We'd stay in the car while he went in and saw the patient and came
back. One time he had to go to Marlin to help Dr. Smith up there. Big Creek
was out between Marlin and Reagan and the road was completely covered for a
distance of, I'd say a mile. The only way to get from the Bryan side to the Marlin
side across the creek, was to walk the railroad track which was elevated, and he
walked the tracks, crossed on the trestle, I think there were 2 or 3 trestles at
night. Dr. Smith came to the other side and showed his lights across from that
side. The road and the railroad track were parallel. We parked on this side and
kept our lights on Dad as far as he could use them. And he walked across the
railroad track, they performed the operation; and he came back the same way.
We sat there and hoped no trains came along while he was in transit.
SL - You know you, I asked once about early taxi service and I do remember that
in 1936, I was to take a typing course in Bryan High School, I had just graduated
from Consolidated High School and my mother and father uh made
17
arrangements with a "one taxi" to pick me up at 15 minutes of eight in the
morning and drop me at Bryan High School.
SH - I don't remember the name of that
SL - I did, it was just a private cab man who had his car that, that he, then I
walked from Bryan High School to Allen Academy which was not, not a bad walk
at all. Stephen F. Austin to uh
EM - from the old high school.
Everyone - From the old, old high school to Allen and took courses there.
18