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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTransportation Panel Group 04City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project This is a 1 - . Today is A'6�-e /6 , (month) (day) (year) I'm interviewing for the 1' time 6ronii5 , (Mr., Mrs., 5a voi, ► Coseor /i4,947A at4 /16 `rteo v , i-rao v-e. A 1 r Miss, Ms., Dr., Etc.) This interview is taking place in Room / 0 z- of The 3 .4f, at 1300 George Bush Dr. College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is identifiable on the tape recorder. The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. with (Name of Interviewee) i vot'S D4r 7. • , rtaL, CA) er a w dery, 8. ► • Ael 0 Erw g r cPi7 9_ 4 • (Ma lien 10. 5. 6. I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews 11. 12. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of College Station Historic ('reservation Committee and Confereny, � nter dvisory Committee. Interviewer (signature) Date /4›, /'7'7( , e II i � rr Qu is _ j 4 tv 67? Interviewer (Please Print) HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interrviewer (Please Print) a erviewer Place of Interview Signature of I List of nhotos. documents, mans. etc. Interviewee (Please print) /7 3A-- 470,c, Signa of Interviewee Name Address 3 5 /.e /4 ' / 7'7 ,ft�,5 Telephone S'1 Date of Birth 4/7/97 Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. rr 1� -, ,L) /2 , 14 k.).. r/ / o C g-r/ De-,n/ Interviewee (Pl print) S ignature of Interviewee !ce?, A tt_ c r,V . # ic-4 4 ,LA dt/ 6,o ry .s_Ca P-ce J Name Address Telephone '7/ - 7 7 , - 41--3 4 f Date of Birth _ " - 4%. . / / Place of Birth RP ,/,4»J. 7 ' Ellen M- J02 c7 "4- ' Interviewer (Please Print) Signatu5e of I, erviewer n � n [C ( ?. CeA(2- Place of Interviell List of photos, documents, mans. etc. Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. 1 C1 /0 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress /24/k /02., Place of Interview HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. _A-RA- . �3t,4-16 In } rview�ee (Please print) / W Signature of Interviewee 4 LK St,. L J, S Q!e J Md A M veer c n� Name 4 77 CA Address E7,, iN &-e Interviewer (Please Print) - 711 1 .0-14a4 . gnatu e of Ij terviewer 6qt -4r7e Telephone Date of Birth 2'v /9i3 Place of Birth Sri to Date Initial INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed ✓ In progress List of photos, documents, mans. etc. C4 pies n - Gd ,jp f be. A p4-e p4-ea rPAte.f Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interviewee (Please print) Signature of Interviewee Name gy 4/, V Address Telephone` Date of Birth �L /et$ 12 Place of Birth G u., E/ /&M 771. /40,e,v Interviewer (Please Print) r A f t- Signatu of In viewer Place of Interview List of uhotos, documents, mans. etc. INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed � Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. Date Initial 77C(16 In progress co rks: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Memory Lane: ar,Spe),/-424A4,1 Oral History Stage Sheet Name 50.�� �/1 r+ n Interview No. A tits ( o ir- La r idi, c Interview date 1 lnterviewerEl e tr �l,�e yC Interview length interview Place �1 hm ,,ti,,ti in ea ` Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape dis •• I f : Given to interviewee • n ■ i Received Yes No Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by ,( Pages Date Sent to interviewee on ) 19(ame) Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Pages Date (name) Final copies: Typed by Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2' Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date e. _ .rks: Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Memoryy�Lane:T:81NA 5��`' (_ �Q j fP Interview No. Name /-fit /er, Interview date LI _ ( - 910 Interviewer rite n?OCQ u _ 1-kre vl e r Interview length Interview PlaceP„,,, �. Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Sent to interviewee on / 1I 1q1/ Received from interviewee on Cj /1 Copy editing and second audit check by Proofread by: 1) (name) ame) Pages Date Pages Pages Date Pages Date Pages Date Date: Date: 2' Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Original photos returned to: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date Croce Date I* City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Memory Lane: r C - . bh Oral History Stage Sheet Name Int erview No. �c�k� � Interview date 41—I(c -9(. lnterviewerLI [e (Yl r,r �; s - (4, n o f Interview length Interview Place 2 �,� 7 Z- '� Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Date Signed R Yes No Restrictions- if yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) First audit check by Sent to interviewee on �? 101 Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by (name) Pages Date Pages Date (name) Final copies: Typed by Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date ) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: • Indexed by: Date Sent to bin dery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date _.. ..arks: Memory Lane: 604v5 por co First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Name n, a■c\ Interview No. ° ° Interview date - /(p_ y f „ Interviewer . a✓ Interview length Interview Place Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Date Signed Restrictions- Yes No estrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Pages Date (name) C) Iv i l(G (name) Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by (name) Pages Date Pages Pages Date Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date Z, Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date irks: Moderator - Ellen Marquis- Horner Interviewees- Claire Allen Sara Allen Cofer Landon Sarah Holmgreen Brooks Cofer SA- I'd like to introduce, this is my cousin Claire Allen. EM- Wait, wait a minute. Okay she's got to turn this on. It's on? Yes ma'am SA- This is my cousin Claire Allen, who married into the Allen family. She married the grandson of the founder of Allen Academy, John Allen, who had just passed away. Claire Allen is my guest today. CA- Thank you. SA- And I'm Sara Allen Cofer Landon. I live in Houston. What else shall I say? I was born in Bryan, but that was just temporary. We lived in an apartment at College station. EM- Okay, and how long were you here? SA- Urn, until I married in 1946. EM- Okay. She didn't tell her birthdate though, did she? SA- I will tell you I don't mind. I was born September the eighth, 1919. EM- Okay. He was too. Very good. BC- Okay, I'm Brooks Cofer. I was born in 1922 on the campus. I live here in Bryan and practice law. EM- Good. SH- I'm Sarah Holmgreen. I was born in Peking, China in 1923, but I have lived in this area, with the exception of college and three years, for seventy -one years. EM- Okay as we go through our interviews I would like to ask your cooperation with a few things. If we have spelling that we need to have, if you would spell words and if you would please not let more than one person talk at once. Okay, sometimes we will get carried away and people say "Oh yeah," and so we have two or three people talking and it's hard to transcribe it. Particularly the spelling of the names of people and possibly places and places of business. I have looked over what they want today and I am going to (If I can find my questions here) we're going to divide things up into (Got too many papers, just a minute.) Gracie, Sarah has some questions about documents. G- Okay. SH- I brought a bunch of pictures and stuff and I thought you would like to look through them. [- garbled ] EM- It's not too bright, bright is it for you? Did the light bother you? EM- Okay let's start with childhood if you were here, as part of record we would like to know where you were born and lived and where you went to school and how you got there. So, Sarah could we start with you? SH- I lived in (Sarah Holmgreen) I lived in Bryan on East 31st Street and walked to school because I went to Travis school. Then we moved when I got to high school out near the location of the triangle on South College Avenue and I either rode the bus or bummed a ride with my father when he came in to work. After that I was driving, so I could go where I wanted to. EM- Okay, Brooks. BC- Our question is how we got to school? EM- Urn hum. You've already told us where you were born. You were born on the campus. BC- Well, I rode a bicycle or walked. EM- OK and where was the school? BC- On the campus at, where the old music hall was and then high school was Pfifer Hall; down from the academic building. I usually walked to school, actually. EM- Sara. SL- Well, my home originally, though I was born in Bryan in my grandmother's home. The first home that my family had was an old bachelor apartment that had been converted into four apartments for faculty members. My first school was the original A &M Consolidated School building at um, well, at that time College 2 Station didn't have named streets. Later on I went to school at the old Pfifer Hall and then when I went away to College I came back and worked in the condemned laundry which was at that time the Agri - Aeronautical Engineering department. EM -OK, where did you go to college and how did you get there? SL- I went to college, Randolph Macon Women's College in Lynchburg, Virginia. And of course, we went by train and we sent our trunks ahead which were picked up. We usually got on the train here if it made connections with a train in Hearne. Otherwise, our family drove us to Hearne and we caught the train there. EM- OK, now you say here did you get the train in College Station? SL- College Station. As a matter of fact, whether it stopped in Bryan I'm not sure. BC- Oh yes. SL- It did? Okay. Well later I think the Sundays it might of stopped in Bryan. Is that right? BC- The Hustler. The Hustler didn't stop in Bryan. The Hustler stopped only between Houston and Dallas at College Station and Ennis. For water. BC- Up the line. And it was kind of a speed train, a new invention, but it made a specific stop in College Station, both coming and going from Dallas to Houston. EM- OK. OK, we're going to get back to trains in just a minute. Claire. CA- I can't give you any information. I was born in Crosby, Minnesota. I married into the Allen family. That's all I can say. EM- OK. OK, let's get back to the trains for a minute. Do you remember what it cost to ride to Houston or what the cost to ride to Virginia was? Any recollection? SL- I have no idea . We might go back to Papa's checkbook and see. BC- Used to know guys that would get on the train in Bryan and ride to College or College and ride to Bryan. I think that you could pay the conductor fifteen to twenty cents or the like and ride the train. 3 SH- No, I was lucky, I got to ride the train for free. Daddy was the physician for the Southern Pacific rail line. So we had a pass that I could use till I was twenty - one, and it worked halfway to Waco. From Bremond, one had to take a bus. SL- Well I spoke. I'm the only one here who rode the old electrical trolley. When we went to Allen Academy for Sunday dinner with our grandmother we got on the trolley at College Station, probably right about where Walton Hall is right now and rode all the way to Bryan down Ursaline Avenue and got off at Allen Academy. Then later, there was a bus that went from College Station to Bryan. BC- Well, the station was where the chapel is now. SL- That's probably it. BC- That's where it's at, the station was on campus and it went to downtown Bryan by the old fire, the first fire station is, where the Eagle building was at one time. SH- All I remember are the tracks on College Avenue which is now Texas Avenue. SL- The bus station was a block from Main street. A block east of Main Street. BC- That's right, yeah. EM- What about the schedule for the, uh. Let's go back to trains: trains trolleys and the buses. Do you remember anything? Have any recall about that? BC- Well the buses ran hourly. SL- I think so. EM- Oh. BC- Actually, between Bryan and College Station. That was the main trip. SH- There were innumerable trains from here to Houston and Houston to Dallas. Three or four a day, I think three a day going each way, at least. One about noon, one late in the afternoon. EM- Did the trolleys and buses, were they there at the same time? The bus replaced the trolley. BC- Poppy said that the first inter -urban was gasoline operated. 4 I didn't remember that. BC- And then it was electrified. That is, the Bryan and College Station interurban and then after the trolleys left, we had the gasoline bus. He used to tell us about pushing the car up Union hill on an ill -fated trip to visit the Bryan 400. EM- That's very interesting. Do you remember anything if there were any hobos on the train? Do you have any experience about that? BC- Sure. They used to come around begging the campus houses. SL- Yeah, that's right. During the Depression. Why that was frequently they came. And you didn't turn them away. You were glad to offer them. BC- But you see the campus was off from the station so much, though there was a spur that came from Missouri Pacific station to the mess hall and power plant and coal was used to operate the power plant or bring the supplies to the mess hall for meals that were served. SL- And occasionally on Thanksgiving for the turkey day, a special train would come up with the people from Austin. They used to have football specials, you see, that's where you get it. And then when the Corps trips occurred, why you took it to Dallas, or Fort Worth, or Houston. Why, they would have any number of trains that would come pick up the Corps and go to Dallas and Ft. Worth, and then bring back, you see. EM- Did College Station Consolidated have football? BL- No. SL- No. SH- Trips. That's something we didn't miss. We had specials like they were talking about to football games; it was all kids, mamas and daddies, and the band, and the football players, and everything. Particularly trips to Mexia, Corsicana, Waxahachie, Waco, and those were really fun. EM- Those trains, I can't imagine that, that's very interesting. Do you remember any incidence about the hobos? SH- Not so many because we lived in Bryan, away from the railroad tracks. Oh, I used to see a few; for a little while we lived in what is now part of the county Health office, Wilkerson Memorial Clinic in 1931 -32. And it was right across the block where the public library, is now from the Southern Pacific depot. My 5 favorite hangout was the depot. The station manager put up with my brother and me. We used to [ see ] some of the men riding the trains, but we saw very few actually panhandling. They did, I know because people who lived closer to the railroad had numerous people coming and knocking on the door, asking for work or food or this sort of thing. EM- Urn, uh. SH- Particularly as Sarah Allen said during the 30's, during the Depression. EM- Sarah Allen, you mentioned that you could look at Papa's checkbook (laughter), if you, if you have that information; that would really be neat to have that. SL- Actually. Actually, it is a very detailed account of his expenditures from the time that he came to Texas A &M in 1910. I'm told. I, I don't know, Bubby has part of the ledgers, I, I haven't had one. BC- I think I used to have some, but I may have disposed of them, or I think I gave you and Dittedee each one for some year. SL- But they, they are fascinating and yes, if I knew that they could be preserved I might... possibly you could make copies of them. EM- I was going to say, (SL- Because.) if you could have copies made or if Gracie copy them. SL- Yes, it really is a very, very interesting account. How much he paid for help. How much he paid for groceries, and to whom. It's fabulous. BC- Well, especially the days when you were receiving state warrants for your teaching services. SL- Well that came later, that was during the Depression. That was in the 30's. You see, you received... it was a promise to pay from the state, which Travis Bryan down at First National wanted to discount it, yes, so you could get some operating money for that particular month. EM- Hum. (Yeah) Everybody had to help everybody else didn't they? BC- Oh yeah. (Yeah) In those days. EM- What did you remember about hitch - hiking? BC- Oh...(lots of laughter) 6 SL- Well, we didn't do it. (more laughter) We picked them up, and there was never any question about picking up a man in uniform. BC- What, who was the famous Aggie hitchhiker? SL- Oh, that hitch - hiker, oh. All over everywhere. BC- All over the United States. There were certain rules that you followed if you were in the Corps and were hitch - hiking. It didn't matter what your classification was. When you arrived at the scene, you put your bag down and in that order the rides were accepted based on your location in line. So your bag could be ahead of a Senior. EM- Oh really? BC- You could go any place like that. And hitchhiking was a way of life among the cadets because my freshman year in thirty -nine, I think there were something like sixty vehicles owned by the students. And that was a very small parking lot. So, In order to get around some way, either by the railroad or hitch - hiking, hitchhiking was quite a fad. SH- Every weekend there was line at the Eastgate going south and a line across the street going north, and on the corner of 25th it was then, and College Avenue. There was always a line on that road to Dallas or going west. And like Sarah said, you never passed an Aggie if you had any room in your car. SL- I often thought they took down the license numbers (laughter) for retribution or, or some such. SH- And that continued through W.W.II, really. Even maybe. But, I think after the civilian students started coming and people were more affluent there were more cars. EM- OK, let's get to the airplane service. Now I know Sarah has quite a bit about the Civil Air Patrol and... SH- Actually, mine is mostly about private flying. EM- That's fine. SH- I brought a little map that I sketched in several fields that were privately owned and used. The one that my father and Byron Black first started flying from was where Bryan High School is now, a cow pasture airport. Then, they transferred the scene of operations to Leonard Road, where Bittle Lane 7 8 intersects it which is on the western edge of Bryan. This was a much larger field and even had a couple of hangers built there. But still it was private aviation with barnstormers, and air shows, and this sort of thing. Then Coulter Field was established about the time of W.W.II. At that time we lived on College Road where Old College Road and College Road intersect now. And there was a private air strip that belonged to my father in the triangle formed by Old College Road and Wellborn Road. Was about sixty -five acres in there that was just open land with some trees and he had a hanger right in our front yard that he kept his plane in. And then Guy Davis and Robert Putz had hangers down at the other end, closer to Wellborn Road. They used the field, taught lessons there and everything. In summertime, one or two summers in the late thirties, early forties, the cotton dusters dusting cotton down in the Brazos bottom, stayed at our field. They parked their planes along the fence in front of our house and took off like the Dawn Patrol every morning. Even before that there was a place out here at College. I thought it was just about where 2818 and Wellborn Road intersect. But I... BC- You're, you're right. It's, I think, about where the Kanas lived, on Wellborn Road, and the barnstormers used to come in there. SH- The barnstormers used to come in there, put on shows and take people for rides. I think, my first airplane ride was in a Ford tri -motor off the little field on Leonard Road; it was horrifying (chuckling). During W.W.II they established a Civil Air Patrol because of German submarines in the Gulf. It was decided there weren't enough military aircraft to patrol our Gulf Coast. I know Daddy served down there in 1942, Summer of 1942. They had organized a wing here, that both my father and father -in -law were in. And they went, some of them went down to the Gulf Coast to patrol there. And they said no more submarines were sighted after the civilian airplanes began their patrols. EM- Hey Sarah, give me your father's name. SH- L.O. Wilkerson, Dr. L.O. Wilkerson. EM- Initials L.O.? SH- Yes. EM.- Did you get that? SH- W- I- L- K- E- R- S -O -N. One other thing interesting about the little airport where Daddy learned to fly, the one where the high school is now. He had the most beautiful little airplane you ever saw. He had it about three or four weeks. He had been flying solo about that long. He and Byron Black were both flying that day and he came in to land, and came in too slowly, and just flat buried that 9 little airplane about two blocks south of that airport. He was fortunate enough to get out of it. He didn't walk away from it; they had to pry him loose from the wreck. But he recovered completely. Some of the pictures that I brought are before and after of that airplane. Of course, W.W.II changed everything around here, military aviation and civilian flying. Easterwood was a big plus. There were students here, during the war at the University that were taking pre - flight. They were Marine students, taking pre - flight training out of Easterwood, and of course Bryan Air Force base was training instrument pilots at that time. There was a lot of civilian aviation. It just boomed after the war, for there were army surplus planes to be bought. Lots and lots of people flying. On my map I also marked the sites of two forced landings that happened during the war. One man landed an AT -6 in the Polo Field, had to dismantle the airplane to get it out. There was not room for it to take off because of a ditch right across the middle of the field. And he didn't have enough room to get off on either side of the ditch. Then, there was a twin - engine airplane. I don't know whether it was a bomber, one of the twin- engine small bombers or whether it was a trainer that landed behind the F &B station which is right off of 2818 now, west - northwest of the campus. BC- Well, the reason you had those incidents was that the Aggies in service liked to show off a little bit when they were flying through this part of the country, and they would buzz the college. EM- Yeah (laughter). SH- One man that buzzed the bonfire didn't do so well; he pulled the wings off his airplane (Yeah). The airplane continued across the railroad, pieces of wing landed on the Bonfire field in front of the MSC's current location. Then the airplane fuselage landed across the railroad tracks (Yeah). EM- Do you remember when that was? SH- Uh, no. The MSC may have already been built. BC- No, the MSC wasn't here. SH- It was in- was it in the 50's? BC- I would say it was through the war. SH- Through the war. I can't remember. It was in the 40's or 50's. But, urn, that was the buzz that shouldn't have happened. EM- Okay, before we go on , what was your father -in law's name? SH- E.N. Holmgreen, Elmer Holmgreen. He was associated with the university before the war. And then after the war, was with the government in the Marshall Plan. EM- Okay, do you all remember when you had you had your first plane ride? Brooks? BC- I don't know whether I took a flight down there on one of those barnstormers or not. I doubt that I did. I probably was during the war that I took my first plane ride. Either coming back or visiting, but I did take a lot of plane rides during the war. But I think that the first one was probably returning for a visit. EM- Sara? SL- I was a little leery. I don't think I made any plane ride until I went to my, urn, daughter -in -law's reception in Arkansas in, sometime,. I'm trying to think. It must, must have been in the early '70's. But I was married and living in Houston and it was not from College Station. EM- Okay. Claire? CA- It must have been 1973 before I had got on the plane. EM- Okay and Sarah. (Well, Sarah was practically born on a plane.) I was going to say Sarah were you a pilot, did you take flying lessons? SH- I soloed out of Easterwood in 1946. But my first plane ride was in a Curtis - Pusher which was a highwing monoplane with a rear engine and just a little kind of capsule out in front for the passenger and the pilot in tandem. It looked like tissue paper and bamboo. This was back in 1932 or '33, and that was the airplane my father learned to fly in. It belonged to a cousin of my mother's. He was one of the barnstormers. and they came here that summer. EM - Have a name, can you give us a name? SH - Lawrence Hughes, H- U- G- H -E -S. They spent the summer here, and he taught people to fly. Guy Davis was one of the boys that was always out at the airport, he became the owner of Davis Airlines, which was really our first commercial airline. Matter of fact his first, the first commercial airplane was one that he bought from my father a Beech Craft Bonanza which was a 4- passenger airplane. And started Davis Airline with it. EM - Oh, that's very interesting. Uh -do you remember who some of the other early pilots were, and airplane owners? 10 SH - Robert Putz, as I mentioned earlier and Guy, Byron Black, James Vance, J. E. Vance was, one of the people that was interested. I don't know if he ever owned an airplane or not, then there was Mr. Dick Cardwell, who was the manager of.. . SH - Coulter Field. BC - Coulter Field, that's right. SH - And then in the '40's it just multiplied. I have no idea how many people there were involved in flying from then on. Claude Edge who owned and was a partner in Lilly Creamery was pilot in the '40's and '50's and somebody else, but I can't remember now. Lots and lots of people were flying, particularly after the war so many of the young men that came back who were trained pilots flew, got into all of sorts things when flying. BC - But Joe, he continued after he was a fighter pilot SH - But he kept up in the Air Force Reserves, the squadron that was here that went down to Ellington to fly. You missed the fly over. Em - That's Joe Holmgreen her, who was her husband 11 SH - Oh - there were, I guess 15 young men who lived here immediately after the war, going to school. They went to Houston twice a month to Ellington Field and flew to keep up their flying status in the reserves. At final review in 1948, they did a fly over the unit was out on the field there, in front of Memorial Student Center, and they came in on a V formation in AT -6's, four of them maybe. EM - Do you recall anything else that we might could record for posterity? SH - Lots of silly personal things. EM - Well? Tell us one or two that are very outstanding to you Sarah. SH - Oh, one was my own flying adventure. I had flown with my father a good bit, and had handled the controls just in the air, and when I started taking flying Hal Murray was my instructor at Easterwood. I guess I'd had a couple hours solo, I got in the pattern to land; there was a plane on the ground in front of me, and one right behind me. I thought, I can't do this, I can't go in between those two. So, I did what I thought you were supposed to do. I pulled up out of the traffic, turned to my right and pulled up sharply to 500 ft. to go around again. When I got on the ground Daddy was there, he said "what were you trying to do, were you trying to kill yourself ?" I said, "No sir, I had full air speed, I was watching my air speed indicator carefully." He said, "Well, you better watch it 12 more carefully from now on," because he thought I was going to do what he had done and stall out, ruin somebody's airplane. Joe and I were engaged at the time and he was working laying out the plans for the student housing north of the campus where the brick houses are. He had a turquoise Ford Coupe, and when I was taking flying lessons I'd go circle his turquoise Ford Coupe out there. We used to really have a lot of fun, the airport was just "the hang out place" for a lot of children my age, because everybody was so fascinated and it was so new. Every Sunday afternoon, everybody was at the airport. Oh I forgot too when mother and daddy moved out on farm road 60, they had a farm out around the Brazos River to the left of farm road 60. Daddy had a hanger, and flew from out there until he had a loss of sight in one eye for several hours and decided that it was time for him to quit flying without another pilot in the plane with him, I think it was in '56. So he never flew again alone. He used to fly on medical calls. Lots of times people in Normangee or Madisonville even further away than that would call him and ask him to come see them, he'd say, "OK, I'll buzz your house, come pick me up." (Oh) so he'd fly, there was little field over at Normangee, not really an airfield, but a pasture big enough to land in. and there was one close to Madisonville, and lots of times he'd just land in a field down in the bottom if he wanted to fly down there and visit a patient. Every once in a while he'd fly somebody to Houston that needed medical attention that was not available here, patients that were well enough to fly, rather than driving. Its much more fun to fly. EM - The farm that your father had, was that a working farm? SH - Yes ma'am, we had cattle and raised feed. In Normangee, we had a little place where we raised corn, and we had a cattle feeding operation out on FM 60. We had enough acreage there to have cattle. Now I don't know whether it was self supporting, but, well I think it probably was back then, but then when the drought came along in 1954 we had about 2 -3 years of drought when it just became almost impossible to make any money feeding cattle and so we decided to give it up. EM - When he sold his cattle how did he get them to market? And where was the market SH - There was an auction barn here in the early 50's. A lot of times, if you had registered cattle and wanted to sell them, you'd have an auction on your farm. We had one dispersal sale out there, and then cattle were brought in to the auction barn here in town. People would come and buy, and truck them out in the 50's. EM - How did you dispose of the corn? Or sell. SH - You fed it to the cattle EM - OK there was no selling of it SH - No, we raised it strictly for feedlot. It was sort of an experimental thing back then. When A &M got rid of their Cavlary horses they had an auction in downtown Bryan, on Bryan Street, between 25th and 24th St. They blocked off the street and had an open air auction of the horses. And I bid against Daddy. Do you remember Denmark, Sergeant Segar's little mare? SL - Oh, yes in fact I, I took horse backing riding lessons on Saturday mornings and uh, I remembered the horses were numbered 27 and 29 were the gentle ones that they saved for the little girls. You wanted 27 or 29. SH - Denmark was Sergeant Segar's own little horse and I wanted her so badly and I was bidding on her, so was Daddy at that auction. Finally somebody poked me in the ribs, (I didn't go with my father obviously,) said, "Do you know who you are bidding against ?" I said, "No, but I want that horse." They said, "Well shut up and you'll get it ". Did you? SH - Yeah, daddy bought her and another horse from the Cavalry. One thing wrong with her, she was petrified of cattle. And you wouldn't have thought so because she grew up over there by the cattle barn. But you couldn't work cattle from her, I found out. SL - He was quite a character anyway. SH - Sergeant Seegar? BC & SL - Yeah, he really was SH - He was here with the regular Calvary and he was sort of Major Domo over the Calvary stable and equitation, taught all of us kids how to ride. SL - In fact, I remember that some of the professor's wives, in the early days when their children were small decided to take riding lessons, a Captain Buckley in the Calvary was getting up this class, and I remember my mother persuaded her neighbor, Mrs. John Mitchell, to go. And finally Captain Buckley said "You know you ladies bother me just a little bit with all your young children at home and these calvary horses are not exactly the best for you ". EM - I want to return to the streets in Bryan - College Station just a few, uh, minutes. Uh Sarah, I know you live over on Timber, Right? 13 SH - Yes, ma'am EM - OK Can you tell us a little bit about that subdivision and the streets and uh, how, well SH - We moved onto Timber from what is now Winding Rd. in 1960. Glade St. was a lane that went down to the creek and stopped. There was no Anderson St. Park Place did not go through, it went to Glade and up on that hill where the apartments are now, Taos and Scandia. EM - Scandia? SH - Yes, was dairy farm, the Dobrovolny's, I believe it was the Dobrovolny's dairy farm, I know there was a barn up there and windmill and all that, but I don't remember when those streets were really developed. But it was in the early to mid 60's. SL - Well the first streets in South Oakwood, you better check me on this were Pershing and uh Lee, and Suffolk. And they were north of Glade, you see, Glade was well EM - Fairview, was Fairview one of them Fairview, or did that come later. SL - Oh, no it was probably about the same time over there where Madeley's Drug Store was. No it was probably.. . EM - And Dexter? SL - Probably SH - What was the Scoates Lakes. Wasn't that Scoates Lake. SL - Yes, Scoates Lake became College Park. And at first there was just the winding road, the circle around and then they went out to... and then Pershing. Herschell Burgess started South Oakwood after College Park SH - SL - Well, actually no it wasn't it was just right east, it was just east of it. EM - Over toward Wellborn Road? SL - No, No, No, that's west. EM - OK, all right I'm sorry, I'm turned around, OK 14 SL - Right where the little Episcopal Church is now. SH - We lived on Taurus, which is now Winding Road, when the Knoll was being developed. EM - When what was being developed? SH - The Knoll, the area known as the Knoll is where Caudill, Orr, Lawyer streets are, in that general area. EM - Over by South Knoll, OK uh hum SH - Yes, they call that area the Knoll, and a lot of the architects, built homes in there. Of course Claudill had a home there. SL - Bill Hensel lives on Winding right now. SH - Everything, really, literally, south of what is now Holleman, wasn't that was just pasture. That was just pasture SH - Right when we came in '71, Southwest Parkway was not through to Texas Avenue, that was all pasture. I can recall behind our house on Guadalupe it was hoses grazed there. SH - It's amazing, because when we lived out at Timberlake, which was there at the bend of Old College Road, we were way out in the country. We were even out further than the old Bryan Country Club. My goodness !!! There were very few houses in that area, except right in the middle, what they called "Midway" where old Sulfur Spring Road was SL - Dr. Ehlinger had one of the first houses out there EM - And what about the streets and road in Bryan? 29th into urn SL - Ursuline back over there, Sarah would probably know more about Bryan. SH - Actually, 29th went out as far as where the High School is because that where they had the airport in 1932 or '33, but it was a dirt road. And from. . . EM - Your talking about Bryan High School now. SH - Yes ma'am 15 EM - OK SH - From Coulter Dr. south was pasture. Almost all the way. There were 2 farms if I remember particularly on 29th St. south of Coulter Drive, but they were not more than 1/2 a mile south of Coulter then there were farms out where that little shopping center is now on 29th street. Em - Where Winn Dixie is? 16 SH - A little bit, yeah, a little bit back towards town from there but in that general vicinity there were a couple of three farms, and if you were on roads which were literally just almost two track wide, worn spots. Going to where the Pebble Creek is now, that land, part of that land use to belong to my grandfather. One went to Wellborn east on what is now Greens Prairie Road, past the cemetery in Well- born, then one started opening gates and one went through peoples pastures to get over beyond, where highway 6 is now. Used to have to open gaps, and gates and go on roads that were really cow tracks, and that was something when that highway opened up and one could drive down to the gate of the farm. All the roads were like that, they were just bare track in lots of places. EM - Impassable in rainy time? SH - And sometime in summer too because the sand would get so deep, you'd get stuck in the sand back in the days when you had those little narrow tires. starting to the Model T's SL - I, I remember my mother mentioned that when she was chairman of public health in Brazos county she had a public health nurse, and they would go down into the bottom, but they always kept Saturday Evening Post in the trunk of the car, so that they could put them down for the car to drive over. That was probably in the early 30's. SH - A lot of the old bridges across the river are gone. The ones that we used to drive over. I know the one across the Little Brazos, north of Hwy. 21, and Old Jones Bridge north of Hwy. 60 and Koppe Bridge south, west of Wellborn - all those bridges are gone. Jones Bridge used to be a ferry actually, then they replaced it with bridge. EM - Was that the only Ferry in the area? SH - It was not operating in my memory but that bridge was built before we came out here. I don't know whether there was a place called Batts Ferry B- A -T -T -S Ferry BC - That's out at Wellborn SH - It is BC - yes SH - I didn't remember where it was. Probably where Koppe Bridge was. BC - Close to Koppe SH - And the, wasn't there a ferry north somewhere, up in the northern end of the county? BC - Oh, there, I saw something once on the Ferry crossings on the Brazos where they were. SH - I don't remember EM - There was one down, an, close to where the Starberry Public Museum is now, right north of there across the Brazos SH - That would be out probably out of Brazos County. EM - Yeah, it would be in between Grimes and Burleson I guess. SH - When I was growing up, Dad, being a doctor, made house calls, morning, noon, or night. Lots of time he'd bundle us all up in the car and we'd go with him. So we got to know the back roads of Brazos County pretty well. Maybe even at midnight mother would bundle us up,put us in the back of the car,and off we'd go; We'd stay in the car while he went in and saw the patient and came back. One time he had to go to Marlin to help Dr. Smith up there. Big Creek was out between Marlin and Reagan and the road was completely covered for a distance of, I'd say a mile. The only way to get from the Bryan side to the Marlin side across the creek, was to walk the railroad track which was elevated, and he walked the tracks, crossed on the trestle, I think there were 2 or 3 trestles at night. Dr. Smith came to the other side and showed his lights across from that side. The road and the railroad track were parallel. We parked on this side and kept our lights on Dad as far as he could use them. And he walked across the railroad track, they performed the operation; and he came back the same way. We sat there and hoped no trains came along while he was in transit. SL - You know you, I asked once about early taxi service and I do remember that in 1936, I was to take a typing course in Bryan High School, I had just graduated from Consolidated High School and my mother and father uh made 17 arrangements with a "one taxi" to pick me up at 15 minutes of eight in the morning and drop me at Bryan High School. SH - I don't remember the name of that SL - I did, it was just a private cab man who had his car that, that he, then I walked from Bryan High School to Allen Academy which was not, not a bad walk at all. Stephen F. Austin to uh EM - from the old high school. Everyone - From the old, old high school to Allen and took courses there. 18