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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTransportation Panel Group 01Oral History Transportation January 16, 1996 Moderator: Nadine Stuth (N) Transcriptionist: Florace Kling Interview Group: Jim Boone (J) Rosmary Boykin (R) K.C. Morgan (K) Ed Holdredge (E) Teeny Wicker (T) N: I am Nadine Stuth and I've lived in College Station for 20 years now, and Pll let each one of you go around and introduce yourself; and say how long you have lived here and just a little bit of brief history and then we'll start with the kind of questions I have here for us to start. R: Pm Rosemary Boykin and I first came to College Station when I married my husband in 1946. We have been residents of College Station for most of that time. I am a housewife and a writer on the side; interested in ethnic history of a local nature. N: Thank you. J: And Pm Tim Boone, I began coming here I guess when I was about ten years old. My parents were school teachers, and they came up here every summer to go to summer school. So I began coming here for the summers in 1933, and then came back as a freshman in 1940. Then, in 1952 I came back as a faculty member at Texas A &M, and I've been living here since 1952. N: OK E: Pm Ed Holdredge, I came here as a faculty member in 1939, and had been in the mechanical engineering department then until 1980. N: OK, and Mr. Morgan? K: I'm KC Morgan. I moved here in 1954 and I taught school here in the consolidated school district for 27 years, and we've been living here ever since. It's been a good place to live. N: OK. So nobody... You didn't go to school here, no one went to school here. All right, and everyone came after horses, don't have any of that, and how did you come into College Station, did you come, as far as the transportation, by train or by car? R: We came in, I came in by train, when I first began dating my husband. And that was the first time Pd had to go into College Station, although my father had graduated from here earlier, and my paternal grandparents lived in Steele's Store in the late 1800's, but my first mode of transportation was by train to College Station. N: Did ya'll arrive by train every summer? J: No, we drove up here in a model A Ford. N: OK J: In the 1930's. We were living in Ft. Bend County which is the area in which you will find Richmond and Rosenberg. It's 103 miles from here by the highways we had then, and it was about a three hour ride in a model A Ford. Those cars could maintain 55 miles per hour on the road without any problem, but the highways 1i no_ 1 Cop LI were two lane highways most of the way. From Navasota to College Station, the highway crossed the railroad track some five or six times, you would drive three or four miles and cross the railroad track, go three or four miles, cross it again, so there were a lot of railroad crossings between here and Navasota. I remember that quite a bit, and I remember that two lane highway between Navasota and Hempstead. It's very hilly there, it still is, of course. There was one big hill there, and there was kind of a spring involved in that hill, and it would keep the roadways sort of wet. There was a farmer who lived on top of the hill I don't know how much, how well he did as a farmer, but he did pretty well hooking his horses onto cars and pulling them over the hill But that hill was pretty tough on some of the early cars. But, also in that hilly area you couldn't pass anybody, because you never could get enough room to see. So, our first trips here were made by a Model A Ford, although I rode the train a lot as a student in the 1940's. N: Did you ride the train also, Ed? E: No, when I came here the first time we came on the bus. N: The bus? E: Yeah, but I went home during Christmas and during the summer for four years and rode the train each of those times. I went to Houston, New Orleans sometimes, and went up to east Texas and Memphis that way sometimes. N: Well, was the train service regular? I mean more than one train a day? E: Oh, it was very regular. N: Or just one train a day? E: No, two trains a day, I think, at that time. That was the Sunshine Special, wasn't it? It was non -stop between here and Dallas, Sunbeam. So, it only stopped here between Dallas and Houston. And it made it's round trip once a day and after that it was a train that stopped at every little crossing. Anybody who wanted to get on or off they'd stop the train. J: The trains had names The Sunbeam was the streamliner that didn't stop from here to Houston. You get on like at 6:55 and you'd be in Houston about 90 minutes later. It was about 90 minutes from here to Houston on that train, and this was in the 1930's and '40's. Then the other train was called the Hustler, all the trains had names, called the Hustler, but it stopped anywhere people wanted to get on or off, so it was much slower... Then, there was the Southern Pacific, the Missouri Pacific came through, also, they also had, oh, I guess about 4 trains a day. Some of them went through like at 2:00 am, so it was not a convenient time. But, I know the Aggies used to laugh at that late night train, the Missouri Pacific, we all said it had square wheels, it was a pretty rough ride. But, the trains were coming and going all the time, as were buses. It seemed like buses came through here every couple of hours so it was easy to get from here to Houston, or from here to Dallas. R: Often you would have to go to North Zulch to catch a train. I can't recall which directions except for I remember we traveled north. We had quite a harrowing ride to catch that train one time. That's why I remember. We had a new baby, got on the train with the older child and left the new baby in the car. Oh gosh, just in a matter of a few seconds we remembered that we had not picked up the baby to get 2 on this train which left, I think, close to midnight. So, some people caught the train at North Zulch, and I don't remember what line. J: That was the Denver..., Ft. Worth and Rio Grande, I believe it was called. It later became Burlington Rock Island. It went from Houston up to Ft. Worth and stopped at North Zulch. That was the stop for people here, and frequently people would go over to meet the train at North Zulch. And there was another one up at Valley Junction. Valley Junction was north of Hearne, and there two railroad lines crossed. And if you were going to Austin, you would take the train from here to Valley Junction, just the other side of Hearne, get off that train and there was a little station there where you could wait for a train that went over to Austin, then. But a lot of people here will remember Valley Junction as a place where they were waiting for a train or meeting someone. N: I've always heard that the train station was kind of that little spot right out by the campus, is that where the train station was here? E: Just the other side of the bell tower. N: Right in that area? E: In that area. N: When we first moved here 20 years ago there was a little kind of brick house, kind of a little building. That wasn't the train station? J: No, that was further down, I think that was the pump that pumped water for the steam locomotives. They had a watering station here, and oddly enough, back then the railroad considered this the best water between Houston and Dallas. They liked water that was free of minerals so it wouldn't cause the boilers to become caked up. It was the best water, but the water we drank in College Station was not the best water anywhere. It was full of sulfur, and it had a. . . for a newcomer it acted a whole lot like Epsom salts, but after a few days you got used to it. N: OK, did you come by train? K: No, I moved here in '54. Pm a late comer. I'm not sure why I'm here. I have some transportation memories about other things N: Oh, well do you have the traffic? I mean, I know it's a big subject right now. K: Oh yes, there was. The traffic was very small then and I drove a school bus. Probably what Pll be doing is probably comparing where we are now to where we were then. The old school bus I drove, the seats were worn out, springs were sticking through, the floor board was open, the battery was sitting down there, the cable was a little bit loose. And I drove, Rosemary Drive which was part of my run, and if the bus wanted to sort of shut down on me Pd reach over my heel and kick the battery cables and tighten back up on the battery. We kept going and we got the kids to school and back without any problems. So that's one of my first memories. We produced some outstanding graduates of Consolidated High School in those days, and we did it on a very limited budget. Sometimes I think we need to start looking at budgeting again. And the City of College Station, and this is about all I have to say, in the '50's, Mr. Jones had a Radiator Shop over on Wellborn Road, and out in the lot by his place, there was a used Dodge pickup that someone had brought over from Caldwell trying to sell. They wanted $250 for it. 3 I couldn't afford it because my salary wasn't the best in the world in those days. And do you know who finally bought the truck, the City of College Station bought it and drove it for years. So compare that with College Station today. I don't think they'd even carry one like that to the junkyard. N: Keep those old things going. J: They don't buy used trucks anymore, do they? K: No, by all means. N: One question I wanted to ask if you remember, my father worked for Southern Pacific and he would ride a train, there was a special for the Aggie games I don't know, was it every game or just...? J: Every game. And this went on into the early '50's. N: Right, because we lived in the '50's J: Down in Houston they would make up a special train to come up here for the ball games, all the home games, and that went on until the mid '50's or so. N: It must have been because we did not move into Hearne until 1955. I was just wondering. J: I think the railroad finally discouraged it. N: Yes, they did. J: They didn't like passengers, they liked freight. N: I can guarantee that my father was a freight man. The trains you were talking about were all just the passenger trains, there were still freight trains coming through all the time. J: Oh yes. N: What was there ever any talk of about, I guess, this was not the center of town, it was still outside the town when the tracks... They're always talking about the tracks. J: The campus was right here by the tracks, but remember that the A &M College was built here because of the tracks being here, and now we've changed our tune a bit, and want the tracks to go away, I guess, but then it was an asset. I think it would still be an asset if we had passenger trains, but our last train left a year or two ago. N: When did the air flight service start? R: That would have been Davis Airlines, I believe. No, Coulter Field, I believe had. . didn't we have a passenger plane out of Coulter Field before Davis Airlines came in? J: Seems like there was, somebody tried to start passenger service out there but I don't recall any details about the service to Coulter Field. R: The earliest I remember was Davis Airlines. J: Yes, there was one called Pioneer Airlines that flew in here with DC -3's. That would have been in the early '50's, I believe. They were flying into Easterwood. Then they were replaced by Continental Airlines, who were replaced by Trans - Texas Airlines (TTA), some people called it Tree Top Airlines. They came in here with some nice planes, actually. And then Davis came in with a commuter service that flew from here to Houston, and also from here to Dallas. Davis Airlines provided very good service. I could remember times that I would get on a plane in Houston and we would taxi out onto the runway, and be off up in the air and 4 someone would call the pilot on the radio and say, "You have a passenger back in the terminal," and he would get permission from the tower to return back to the terminal to pick up that other passenger. That was another $25 fare back then, but I don't know of any airline today that would go back and pick up a passenger that missed the plane. R: I can remember that Mr. Davis used to check with us especially on the late night flights and say if you would like for us to call anyone at your residence, to let them know that you are arriving, please let me know and I'll have the terminal call them on the telephone. And it was nice because sometimes we would be running early or we would be running late and this way we were assured at that late hour there would be someone to meet us, and often if he did not have a co -pilot he invited one of the passengers to sit up in the co- pilot's seat, to be co -pilot for that flight. N: Personal service. R: Personal service, yes. E: A friend of mine who just came on faculty here, the first time he rode Mr. Davis carried his luggage out for him, and said: this is the only time you'll ever have a president of an airline carry your luggage. N: That's right. If you were on the faculty, did they, most of the people that came in for an interviews, did they come by train? You said you came by bus. E: I came in 1939, and they weren't flying the plane quite a bit 'till later on. In fact.. . when Pioneer was flying these DC -3's. I made a business trip to Washington DC area and when we got up there we checked them coming back and they said how did you get to College Station. I said this is the way we did it. We went up on one airline and come back on another. Went out of town to Houston and up and came back through Dallas, so then you have to know what's going on to get in and out of here in a couple of days, it's going to leave here now. N: Now, they never flew anywhere besides Houston and Dallas? E: No, that's all. J: For a while we had service to San Antonio and service to Austin, but I guess traffic didn't justify it and it didn't last over a few months. N: We haven't talked about how much it cost to do this J: At one time here to Houston was $25 on Davis. N: And on the bus and train trips? J: Four or Five dollars. E: It wasn't too much on bus and train in those days; you're talking about three or four cents a mile or something like that. N: They talk about interurban trolley, none of you were here? J: Not quite, I never saw the trolley. The trolley terminated about 1924, and I was bom the year before that, but I've heard a lot of people talk about the trolley. That trolley ran between Bryan and College Station, the road bed followed what is now Cavitt Street. So, any time you are on Cavitt Street, you are on the old trolley road bed. If you stay on Cavitt coming south of College Station, it will dead end down in a little creek and you have to move over a bit west to get on to College Avenue, I believe it is. And at that point you used to be able to look over through the woods towards the Northgate and you could see a cut in the trees where the 5 trolley used to go. They built a lot of houses in there and people planted trees and so on, and so that cut is no longer visible. So you came in where College Main Street is, right at the Northgate and the little station was up near where the old hospital used to be, (this doesn't mean a thing I realize) and The Aggieland Imi which is gone too. The Aggieland Inn was across from Sbisa Hall, and that little trolley station was just west of that. One summer that my parents were here we lived in a little building, and we found out later that old building was the old trolley station. It had been moved to a location right where the Hillel Jewish Student Center is now at the intersection of Dexter and George Bush, there's a student center there. Used to have that old house on it. And that house was the old trolley station, it still had the little slot where they could drop the mail in the little slot. I think that mail to Bryan went on the trolley, as well as on the trains. N: Well, let's see what it is, I'll see what else to do... Oh, taxis. You have a taxi story? R: I have a taxi story. My first experience with a taxi story was about midnight of August 31. We were living in College View. This was in 1947. There were no cars around and there was one telephone, public telephone booth close to the intersection of University and South College. And my husband got on the bicycle and rode to that telephone booth, called for a taxi and said, "Please, my wife is in labor and we need to get to St. Joseph's Hospital as fast as you can." That was my first, I think that was my first taxi ride in College Station. We did get there in time. N: Was that the College Station taxi? Each of you can think you had a private car, you had the Model A. Now everyone... Now I know Texas has lots of private cars. Was there public transportation ever the size of the trolley? R: When we were here in... from '46 to '49, we rode a bus, a city bus from College Station into Bryan. So, there was city transportation, then. They were school buses. J: They were the same company that had run the trolleys. It was called the Bryan - College Traction Company. They started the bus system after the trolleys quit operating and they bought some new buses right after World War II. I lived in Bryan at that time and I rode those buses quite frequently. We had good bus service. The buses were new and it was very fine, say in 1948, '49, '50, and those years. N: Did you use them to... I. . . was there much shopping? Did you go to Bryan to do your shopping? R: I have a shopping story to tell you. Since we were living in College View Apartments, and had no transportation, we bought a little red wagon that had the wooden sides. And, so we would pull the wagon from our apartment in College View over to the station where we would catch the bus. Which was again University Drive and South College. And we would hide the red wagon in the bushes, take the bus, go into Bryan to do our grocery shopping, come back, unload, load the little red wagon and pull it across College View to our apartment. We were thrilled to death to have a little red wagon. This was in the post war days and even though we had the money to buy a car we couldn't get a car. They were 6 not available. And so we just used the red wagon to haul. I hauled my laundry up from College View up to the intersection of University and Texas Avenue. On that corner there used to be a Laundromat that had Maytag washing machines in there and a dirt floor. It essentially was sort of like a shed. And so I hauled my laundry up the hill and did my laundry and came back and hung it out. The same time I was carrying our second child, I guess it was. So transportation with the little red wagon was very important to us at that time. N: You were a student? R: My husband was a student. He was a returning Veteran. He had been here at A &M in 1942, was called into the service, and then we returned in '46 after we married and he finished his undergraduate work, then. So then we returned for more graduate work later, but we were able to buy a car in '49. But, when we bought the car we had to buy, in order to get the car we had to buy all these extras, spotlights and I don't remember what else. They said they loaded the car, is what they said. J: That's right because you didn't have much choice. There was a long waiting list of people who wanted to buy cars. They stopped manufacturing cars in 1942 and the next model that was made was in 1946. So after four years there was a great demand for cars. You would have to, in many cases, give a dealer a hundred dollar deposit just to get on a waiting list for a car as they came in. And the result was that when the cars came in they were heavily loaded because you didn't have a lot of choice. R: That's right. N: So they wanted you to buy the most expensive model. J: That's right. My first car, I bought it in Bryan from Halsell Motor Company. I bought it in 1947. It was a 1939 Dodge. What we were doing in those days was buying used cars because there weren't any new ones. And that car was pretty old at that time, but it was good transportation. R: We bought a two door Chevrolet, two door coupe with the front and back seats. N: What color? R: What color? I can't remember. It seems to me it was beige or tan. N: I was just wondering color choices. My father had a blue one. R: We were thrilled to death to get that car. N: Then did you use it to go shopping? R: Well, we got it about a month before we graduated. And I remember that the first and only traffic ticket that I ever received was in that car. I drove it up to that laundromat and it was pouring down rain, and as I said I was expecting our second child. So, instead of trying to find a parking place down the street, I pulled into the alley next to the laundromat to unload all this laundry and before I could get back to the car to close the trunk and repark the car, the policeman was out there giving me a ticket and I said, "I just really want to unload my laundry." He said, "I'm sorry, but your blocking an alley." And that's it. So, any way. N: Do you remember the police as being quite so diligent? E: We had a policeman. N: A policeman? And what did he drive or ride in? 7 E: I can't recall. It wasn't too new of a car as I recall. N: It wasn't the used truck? J: There was a policeman on the A &M campus known as Bicycle Willie. So I presume he was riding a bicycle. I can remember that before WWII there was just one security person out there and that was Sergeant Surber. He was, at that time, he was an elderly gentleman, I would say. But he was the one person that I remember that all of us looked on as the A &M security. N: A &M Security. J: One man. N: And the bicycle... The parking problem was not a problem on the campus at that time. E: Yeah, nobody had cars. N: Nobody had cars to park. R: My husband was telling me that in '42 he only remembered one car on campus belonging to a student. That is all he remembered. J: Yes, I was in the dormitory in 1940 and there was one student in that dormitory who had a car and his name was Haltom. His father was the owner of Haltom Jewelers in Fort Worth. He was pretty popular. It was a convertible. N: Oh, my. J: Pretty popular. N: So most of the students would ride by train or bus, then? J: That's right. By thumb N: Hitchhiking J: Yes, there was a corner, Boyett's filling station located now about where the Deluxe Burger Bar is. Where the University Drive intersects Wellborn Road right by the tracks. There was a service station there and it was called Boyett's Comer, and that's where the Aggies lined up who were wanting to thumb a ride into Bryan to the movies or whatever. And sometimes you'd see forty or fifty Aggies there and they'd line up and number themselves. And number one and two would get in the first car that stopped and the next would move up. So, that was a very popular corner. And the taxi's would come by there, too occasionally, and if you were number three in the line you might break down and decide to use a taxi. If you had the money for it. N: Well, then they got home the same way? J: Same way. In Bryan, I forget where the hitchhiking corner was, in Bryan. E: Well, in that time.. . J: I guess it was by the Palace Theater. The intersection of, I guess that would be 26th and Main Street. R: And I think probably in the later days there was one near East Gate which would travel to Houston or Dallas. J: Well, yes If you're going to Houston, East Gate would be the hitchhiking corner, and you were not allowed to move up north of that comer. That was called up- streaming, and if you were caught up- streaming you would be visited by a few students some evening. But, many times there would be a hundred or two hundred students at East Gate waiting their turn to hitchhike a ride to Houston. But 8 everybody knew that if they stopped they wouldn't be swamped by students. One would come to the car and ask how many can you take, and hold up the number of fingers to indicate how many they could take. So the next two or three people in line would move up and get in the car. R: It was always understood that the first person in line sort of organized the pickups for the rest of the Aggies who were standing there so they wouldn't rush the car when a car would pull up alongside the street. So there was definitely an order in which this was done. And they maintained this routine. J: I was picked up a lot of times by women driving alone. A woman who was driving alone would look for an Aggie to pick up. It made them feel like it was some added security. Someone to change a tire. Back then you had flats more frequently than you do now. And so it was nice to have someone around to change a flat tire. N: Well, was the travel, besides the mechanical breakdowns, it was fairly safe, though? J: Yes. N: And the roads were. ..good road beds, or bad road beds? J: It was paved all the way to Houston and going to Dallas it was paved but there was a stretch around Centerville that was pretty bad. I think some of us recall that. N: Sam was a mechanic also? J: He ran a shop. E: He was a service manager for... And then he stopped and started his own shop. N: Were there many car repair places? There seem to be so many now.. . E: Well there were several. All the dealerships had one and the folks had others. There were lots of others. *Note: Piece of interview missing due to changing the audio tape N: You had almost every type of dealership, here. J: Yes N: When you wanted to buy a car. J: That's right E: They had them. It was a long time before College Station had one dealership. N: They were all in Bryan? J: They were all in Bryan. N: When you said you bought a car, you bought a Chevrolet? J: I bought a Dodge from Hasell, who had been a Dodge dealer since way back before my time. So I bought my used Dodge from him. N: After the war did you buy a new car, also? E: I bought one from Chrysler. In about '56 I bought a station wagon from them. R: Ours was bought out of town. Cal's father was able to locate one of the cars, we were having difficulty so he found ours out of town. N: So, you really had to be on a waiting list. R: Oh yes 9 J: To show the demand build -up: The car I bought in 1947 was a 1939 Dodge. I paid $950 for it. That car sold brand new in 1939 for $450. It doubled in value in less than 10 years. N: Appreciation. Well, how soon was it before they were back up to speed after the war to get you cars on a regular basis? K: Probably in the '50's. I bought a 1948 brand new Plymouth for $1714. With none of this extra cheese bread on it. N: So you were able to get one that wasn't loaded. K: But I got my dad's place in line. He gave it to me. N: Oh, well when it was loaded, I was going to ask you earlier what was it loaded with? R: We had two spotlights. One on either side of the on the outside. On either side of the doors. And I'm trying to think of what else was with that. There were two or three features that we had. J: The radio was extra. R: Yes, the radio was extra. J: The heater was extra. K: Heater R: Yes, and that was it. J: A lot of people bought cars without heaters in Texas. We just put on overcoats, or covered our feet and legs with a "lap robe." R: Lap robe. J: I think the first car that I remember buying that had a heater was one that I bought in 1947. None of the cars my family owned before that had heaters. R: No air conditioning, either. J: That's right. And we never used anti - freeze. If it looked like it might get cold we'd just drain the water out of the radiator. And the next morning we'd put water back in it. But in Texas it never freezes over a day or two at a time. And we just wouldn't think of spending money on anti -freeze back then. N: Well, how available was gasoline. Were there many gasoline stations? J: 10, 12 cents a gallon. It got up to 18 cents I think about war time. But then you had ration coupons so you had to... so you could only buy so many gallons. But there was gasoline everywhere. N: But before the war, if you were going to take a road trip were there plenty of stations? E: As long as you stayed on the ...main highways. N: And before the war, when you were young, were there a lot of paved roads? All the roads were still paved at that time? E: There were paved roads because of the city. N: Main roads. But you would probably have to drive a bus on unpaved roads even in the '50's. K: Oh, yes. They were unpaved. Some of them were. In town they were paved. The Wellborn Road was just a gravel road. N: So when was that paved? 10 K: Well, it's the farm road now that goes down from here to Wellborn. It's on this side of the tracks that's a new highway. But back when it crossed back and forth, a lot of it was gravel. In fact I don't remember that it was paved. N: Wasn't Wellborn Road known as Old Highway 6? K: Yes. R: Yes. My paternal grandfather used to tell that, he lived in Dickinson which is between Houston and Galveston, that cattle used to be driven down that Wellborn Road, Old Highway 6, all the way down to the very front of his store, in Dickinson, and made a turn and followed Highway 6 on into Galveston. That was the route for a cattle drive. That's not transportation, but.. . N: Well, it's getting the cattle to market. J: There were some ranchers who didn't own any land. They were called "right -of- way" ranchers. Their cattle were just running free on the right -of -way between here and Navasota. They grazed on the ditches there and they'd brand their cattle and hope no one would steal their cattle. But they didn't have any land. They just let them run in the right -of -ways. *Note: Teeny Wicker enters conversation. T: I'm sorry. I'm not registered with ya'll. I'm just wondering how early you folks were here. I moved here when I was two years old. And lived at Northgate and it's hard to realize that South Main stopped at Church Street. Dirt road, mud road. And people not knowing that in their cars would turn into our driveway. I lived at the comer of South Main and Church Street when I was a child. People who were at Northgate who used to go to Bryan had to take University to Wellborn Road and go down that way because the street wasn't open at that time. And we were quite excited when that road was open all the way to join Wellborn Road on into College Station. Now it's South Main all the way in. You were talking about the bicycles. I remember both before the war and particularly after the war, there were a lot of bicycles on any college campus, now because of congestion and parking problems, but during that period of time so few people had cars that both college students and professors were riding bicycles. And my father rode a bicycle to work on campus at the "Y" everyday, and used the car only for those things that required going to Bryan. He was a minister, so he was eligible to get additional ration coupons for tires and gasoline. But it was quite a trick as a teenager to be able to get a car from Daddy during the war because of the rationing. When I got a chance to get the car to go out to pick up the girls to go get cokes or something, it was a big deal. But lots of bicycles, lots of parking. I rode a bicycle to school on campus and then by the time I got to high school we lived closer, but I remember having to cross the Aggie formations to go to lunch when I was riding a size 20 bicycle. I had been taught such great respect for the military and that one did not break ranks. And here I was trying to get home to Northgate and back on campus and eat lunch and I knew I never could get there before the formation started in the mess hall. And could I get across that large platoon, get through there, and without getting caught by some brass. And of course all of that doesn't matter and now that street Military Walk seems so narrow and it seemed so wide when I was in first, second, and third grade. But the transportation in those days, 11 of course, we just accepted it for what it was. You mentioned not having heat in cars, of course air conditioning wasn't working anyway. I remember in our car going on trips in the summer it was so hot. We got ice blocks on the floors. We'd stop at the filling stations and fill up and Daddy would hose down the inside of the car and use the evaporative cooling method to cool the car off. R: We used to take a basin, and buy a block of ice T: Yes R: And put that there in the car and hope that the breeze from the vent would blow this cool air. T: If you're lucky, you can get your Daddy to put a watermelon on top of that piece of ice. R: Right. N: Did any of you have a water cooler, air conditioner in your car? My father had one, we had one in our car. J: Yes, we did. It would fit in, above, you would roll the window up and it would hang in the window. And then as the car went down the highway the air would be forced into it and then it would go through some moist pads and get cool and, and come in through your window. N: It didn't do much cooling. J: Well, not in this part of Texas, in dry areas it worked all right, but down here it's too humid. N: We had one that sat in the front seat, right on the floor board in between the driver and the passenger. I was just trying to trace back and find out whether that was what it was. J: Did you plug it into the cigarette lighter? N: I believe so. J: I believe so. There was a little electric fan in there that circulated air over the wet pads. N: Boy, that has to be a big car to have that stuff. R: Well now didn't later on those same kinds of air conditioners have a cooler of some sort in them and didn't.. . J: Well, they had a water tank in there. You'd have to stop every so often and fill it with water. R: But I was thinking that later on they substituted some kind of a coolant that went in there in place of water and then this got to be sort of a safety hazard. J: I don't know. I guess if you poured some alcohol in there, that would have a little bit of cooling effect. R: Well, it would, wouldn't it. K: 'Cause it has the same amount of energy as far as the temperature of the humidity. The comfort is only the same thing. J: There was one aspect of transportation that we hadn't covered that the trains gave us that we don't have now... Each train had a railway post office car on the train. And the mail was transported that way. So you could mail a letter here in College Station to someone in Wellborn or Navasota or Hempstead and it would be put off the train when it got to that town. And most people then got their mail in post 12 office boxes. They could pick up that letter very soon after you had mailed it and read the letter and write an answer to it and mail it. The same day a train coming back through College Station would pick that letter up and drop it off here. So you could write a letter to someone south of here and get an answer the same day. Same way if you were writing to someone north of here as long as they were on the same rail line. I have seen many letters that were written and answered on the same day in a collection of letters I went through not so long ago in the Bryan library. So you can't do that anymore, except now with E -mail we finally have some technology that can beat the old system. N: We've finally caught up with it. J: Where you get mail more quickly, but as far as the letters, it now takes two or three days to get one into Houston. R: Sometimes into Bryan. J: That's right. R: I wanted to hear your College View story that you started. J: Oh, College View, the name that students had for it, (and you were a part of that, I think) the students called the College View Married Student Housing a tricycle motor factory. R: I've heard that. J: And even today, there will be people who come back here and say I was born over there. Or I was a child, a baby when my parents lived in College View. A lot of people have some very fine memories of College View. R: We do. N: Lots of tricycles. R: Lots of tricycles, right. That's the way it looked. We lived in College View twice. We served two terms there. N: So did you not, you said you went up to the laundry, so the laundry, they did not have laundry with apartments? R: Oh no. The second time that we... The first time we lived in College View you had no vinyl on the floors. They used used lumber for the floors. Now remember these were army barracks, so they had already served their time. They were old when they were moved there and then put back together again. So that sometimes you could look down into the apartment below. We did not have refrigerators, we had ice boxes, and the ice man cometh twice a week, waking everybody up in the apartment by lugging the ice block to the top of the stairs, dropping his tongs, picking up your ice block, opening up your door, because you had to leave your door unlocked, so he could put the ice into the ice box. We had wooden shelves in the kitchen and one wall in each of the two bedrooms was unfinished, so it just had the two by four studs, that you can see. We did have a little apartment sized gas stove. Now, when we came back in '54, moved back into College View, it had really been modernized. We had metal Youngstown kitchens, we had an electric refrigerator, the floor, then, had been covered in asphalt tiles and that unfinished wall had been finished, and they would allow you to put an air conditioning unit in the window if you would pay extra. So, they were not the Hilton, by any means, but we were tickled to death to get them. But the first time we were there we 13 were newly married, the second time we came back with three children, so it was a bit crowded. But, nevertheless, we were thrilled to death to have such a place to move into. We paid, I think, thirty dollars a month rent the first time. The second time we came back I think it was ninety dollars a month, something like that. N: More paved streets, I take it. R: Yes, pretty well. N: Being in the transportation mode. How about stop lights? R: In town. We have so many now, I don't remember just where they were located. J: Ed, do you remember when the first traffic light showed up? E: I can't remember. J: I remember that we didn't have them at one time, but I don't remember when the first one came. I remember there was a notorious intersection out there. It's near where what we used to call the Skaggs - Albertsons center. Albertsons store is there now. It was a circle. People in the north called those rotaries. And you'd get in that circle and sometimes you couldn't get out. You just keep going in a circle trying to get out and turn. R: But there wasn't a traffic light until they made it a bonafide intersection. J: That's right. You know it was sort of an honor system. You got into that circle and you'd go around it 'till you came to the street that you wanted to proceed on and make your turn. T: I don't remember there being one at University and College Main. J: How about University and College Avenue. T: I don't remember there being one there. J: Well there was a turning circle there, there was an island in the center of it, a big circle and you just went into that and started going around and.. . R: That's right. N: Were there any other circles in town? R: I don't remember any. J: When I traveled the northern part of the country, I remember seeing them up there, they all called them rotaries up there. R: In Europe they have them a lot. J: Right. R: There was one in Pleasantville, one around the old Bindle circle. J: Yes, there was one here, near the YMCA building on campus. T: Where they.. . R: The Bugle stand T: Where they played Reveille and Taps and all every day. I woke up and went to sleep to Reveille and Taps. R: That's also where the only telephone on campus was located. A public telephone was in George's Confectionery under the YMCA. I just happened to remember that. T: We used to call over there and ask if they had Phillip Morris in a can. Yes? Then you better let him out! - LAUGHTER- 14 N: Well, we were talking about going to have a coke with the girls in the car. Was there any particular hang out that, you know, we always hear about everybody cruising for, maybe not you, but the, your students, or something T: Well, there wasn't much cruising during my teenage because of it's coinciding with the war. We did an awful lot of get togethers after supper on bicycles. And we rode all over campus, and I, just a few years ago had the nerve to tell my mother that. We'd ride up to the what we called the Administration Building, the Ad Building which is the one with the dome now. And the steps in front were just perfect to jump a bicycle up. The spacing was just right for both wheels, so we'd ride up those steps and we'd go in the rotunda there and go around on that tile, around that trophy case. How in the world, we ever had the nerve to do that, I don't know, I leave there and think well, one more time we didn't break the glass on the trophy case. If we ever had, I would never have been able to get out of the house again for the rest of my life. We'd go in there and ride bicycles around there and come back down those steps and jump the bicycle down. R: Well, the doors were open back then. T: Oh, yes. In those days, you're talking about safety. R: Yes. T: There was absolutely no problem. When we went on vacation, once a year, we planned about two weeks ahead of time to find the old key to lock the front door, because we knew that we wouldn't be able to find it, and we'd have to find it. We would lock it when we went out of town for a month. Otherwise, the front door was never locked, the church was never locked. I walked all over A &M campus, after dark, or dusk really, and during the daytime, with absolutely no apprehension, and with mother and dad knowing I was doing it, alone or with a bunch of girls. The only thing that we got were some cat calls from the engineers surveying when they'd follow us across the drill field. There was absolutely no reason for anxiety of any sort. It's hard to realize that that condition existed, really so recently ago, and I realize Pm getting older, but nobody used to have theft problems. You didn't have any abuse problems of any sort. It was one of the safest places I know. J: So most of those faculty houses that were on campus, and I'm sure there is another group that will or has discussed that, but there were no keys. The keys had been lost many years before. There were just no keys to those doors. To the front door of the house, even. You just didn't lock then. R: That's right. T: I don't know whether we had the original key when we moved over on Timber Street. My father had bought one of those old homes by the drill field. N: Talking about the streets, the development: When did this part, it started developing and then did they pave the streets right away, or were all these dirt roads for a while? T: Now Bill Lancaster can give much more accurate information about that, because his father was instrumental in opening up SouthGate, that College Park area. We moved over on Timber Street, to be the second house on Timber Street. M.L. Cashion's house was there before us. He was head of the YMCA for many years. 15 And we moved when I was in high school. I'd say the early '40's. I don't remember exactly when Dad bought the house and moved it over. N: The roads were paved yet, or not? F: No. Timber Street was not paved. E: The city started paving sometime in the mid '50's. N: In the mid '50's. T: Timber Street from at least Harvey Road was unfinished It was just a trail, because it too was a mud pasture in rain, but by that time the school had just been built in this area. Of course, it didn't bother us kids, we just ran across the field. N: That's nice. R: Well, did you attend the sloop school that was on the campus then, you did. T: Our folks moved here in 1928 and I was two years old, so I went to school on campus, then went to school in one of the brick buildings it was named, I want to say Gathright, but I don't know if that's right, then the new high school which was this property. The new school was being built and we moved in, into then new facilities in the spring my sophomore year. N: So, this road wasn't paved either, around the schools. Nothing was paved around the schooL T: I think it was because it framed the College. See, the University at that time was strictly square. E: There was two lanes. T: Oh yes, Oh yes. Most places were, but the east was Texas Avenue, North was University, West was Wellborn Road, and South was this street, now George Bush. These streets bordered the developed College at that time. N: And they paved all around that. T: As I recall it was. Am I wrong? As I recall, Jersey Road and Texas and it probably wasn't paved as it is now, but wasn't it tarmac or something like that? E: Probably was, I can't remember. T: I could be wrong. K: I don't remember Jersey being paved in '54. J: No, no, it wasn't. When I lived here, I lived in that little house. It was where the Hillel Jewish Center is, and that's 011 what is now called George Bush and that, it was a road and that road didn't go down all the way to what we now call Texas Avenue. Texas Avenue wasn't there in the 1930's. The Highway 6 came up along the railroad track, the Highway 6 that we call.. . T: Wellborn Road was Highway 6 then. J: That's right. And what we call Highway 6 now, was built about 1935. It came from Navasota, quite a bit east of the old Wellborn Road, and that's when Texas Avenue became a roadway. But there was no road there at all before 1935. R: Well, that was the backside of campus then. J: That's right, the old campus faced west. It faced the railroad tracks, the academic building was the main building. R: That was really the main entrance to campus. J: And that boulevard that goes down to the railroad tracks was the, that was the entrance and when they put Highway 6 through on the east side, let's see, it was 16 1933 -1935 somewhere along in there, then the University built what we call the Administration Building and it faced East. That turned the campus around so our campus actually is kind of two - faced. It has an East face and a West face. T: They both really are awfully pretty, the west entrance, of course Albritton Tower was not there, and the boulevard was well maintained and all those dormitories were newer and in better condition. And you had that circle for the military campus with the megaphone for the bugle with the YMCA on one side and you got absolutely centered on the dome in the Administration Building, it was really very attractive. N: So, you don't remember when the circle went, when they took the circle out? T: No, I'm pretty sure I was living out of state by then, that's a fairly recent.. . E: Well it really wasn't a very big diameter. About 15 feet. R: It wasn't the same type of traffic circle that was at the intersection. It wasn't such a major traffic circle. It was a pretty tight turn, though. T: And all the streets on campus, you see, were very narrow at that time. Military Walk and the entrance, the boulevard that was the original entrance to the campus was one way, and so it was, the street was very narrow and still is, you had to realize the cars were very narrow in those days, too. So it was big enough to accommodate what transportation required. N: And only one student had a car. J: Those narrow streets gave the Greyhound buses a lot of problems, for many years the Greyhound bus station was on campus and the bus would come in , it came in by the Aggieland Inn, which was out across from Sbisa Hall and then it made a, it kind of followed the streets around it to get back on the highway and every now and then the bus would have to back up and make several backward and foreword motions to turn a corner. They would turn right in front of what's now the Heaton Building, which was then called the exchange store, it would turn there and go down by the power plant, and that was a very narrow turn. N: And they came several times a day, you said. J: Oh yes, buses, I would say at least every two hours there was a Greyhound bus coming through campus. T: About the only transportation, that and the occasional railroad. We used to, speaking of the power plant, everything in College Station operated on the whistle from the power plant. 8 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 5 o'clock, they'd blow a whistle. Control of the activities on the campus and for the people that lived here was by the whistle from the power plant. Everything operated on 8 to 12, 1 to 5, there were no evening classes or anything like that, everybody went to work or class at 8 o'clock and got off at 12:00 for lunch, and the whistle blew again at 1:00 and for us kids, at 5:00, when it went off, we'd better head home from wherever we were because supper was at 6:00, so we just left by the whistle from the power plant. N: What, as far as for breakfast, wouldn't you eat on campus, or go off campus to eat lunch. I know there are so many, lots of places to eat now, and try to keep from driving off campus. F: There were places to eat, the students ate at the mess hall.. . 17 R: Sbisa Hall E: I ate two meals a day at the Aggieland Inn for most of the time for four years. I lived in the YMCA, parked in the department, worked in the Aggieland Inn so that triangle was all I had to go. N: You would walk, that was your trail. Did you have a car at that time? E: I didn't have a car until I was 43. N: What kind of car did you buy? E: Well, well in the end of'41 in the spring of'42, my roommate *Note: Piece of interview missing due to changing the audio tape. N: ...Talk to your momma about you. T: When I was a senior, several kids wanted me to play hooky one afternoon. Well, I said "Well, I can't go." They said, "Oh, come on and go." I said, "listen, I'm the only preachers child in this community and I'm a girl and my father is well known and I've got dates lined up next week and it's not worth it." And they said, "They'll never know." And I said, "I won't be off of this campus for more than 30 minutes before word would be out." It was a small school and town then. N: Well, we lived right over here and in... the man that owned our house said he used to keep a horse that he, played with right out here on Dexter. Did a lot of people keep just pleasure horses? T: Oh, well this was just farm land. I mean, it was ranch land. When some of us got together, some of us girls got together to go on picnics as kids do, you know, we were going to take a trip and go on a picnic. We'd come from Northgate and on campus over here where our house was ultimately on Timber Street and play among the grape vines. I mean Taryon -type grape vines that were growing on the trees completely isolated. We would go into the woods. N: You went on your bicycles? T: Don't remember whether we, I imagine that we did. Speaking of transportation, there was, during the war and before the war, a lot of skating, regular old roller skating and roller skating rinks were a great source of entertainment. But we also used skates for transportation as the kids are beginning to do again. ..updated. Lots of skinned knees. J: One thing we haven't talked about, because it is not transportation, I suppose, although it tied into it and that's the lack of places for eating out. You had mentioned a while ago, the Aggieland Inn on campus had a coffee shop and dining room which was very nice. In Bryan, the La Salle Hotel had a typical hotel coffee shop called Talk of the Town and, then Hotard had a cafeteria, in Bryan, on North Main Street. Other than that there were not many places to go out to eat. I can recall people stopping, travelers would stop in and say, "Well, where's a good place to eat in town ?" We'd just look at them and say, "There is none." Although Hotards was very good and then finally Claytons' built a restaurant between here and Bryan on Texas Avenue. N: I remember Claytons'. J: And that was the place to go, but there were very few public dining places tin this area and now we have them everywhere. 18 T: There were pharmacies on both sides of College Main and they did have sodas, a soda counter, and you could get ice cream and sandwiches there, but that was all, no chicken fried steak or.. . R: But there was George's Confectionery. Did you mention George's Confectionery, there? J: Yes, we hadn't mentioned George's yet. George's was on campus and it was popular for soda fountain, hamburgers. All: Yes, yes. N: For lunch as well as.. . J: Short orders, hamburgers. R: Hamburgers and sandwiches. N: Oh, I know what I was going to say: If you went on a vacation and you traveled in the model T in the early days, you would have to take your food with you. Is that right? J: Well, it was about a three hour trip. No, I don't recall that we carried food along the way. N: Well, I mean, if you were going to take a family vacation did you, if you went on a family vacation, did you go by train, or by car.. . J: We went by car, and there were what were called cafes in Texas. Cafes in almost every town where you can get a plate lunch. It'd be like home cooking, really. Beans and chicken fried steak, or roast beef. T: A lot of people did carry food, though. R: We did, we usually carried food. T: They enjoyed the stopping at the side of the road. I'm going back prior to the highway departments starting the roadside parks. But you'd just find a wide spot in the road with a pretty oak tree. For one thing, let the kids peel out and run around. It would be less expensive. Not everybody did and not for every meal, but families usually carried some cheese, turkey, crackers, and melon or fruit. N: What about bridges. The bridges coming into town. The big, I remember that one that wasn't torn down too long ago, the real narrow one. T: Over the Brazos. N: Over the Brazos. Where was that, was that Highway 21? T: Yeah, Highway 21, between here and Caldwell. N: I've heard it was used in a television commercial not long before it was torn down, because it was so neat. T: It had been there for ever, the railroad and the bridge paralleled each other, as they did in those days, across the Brazos. N: So was that the only bridge across the Brazos near here until, for a while? J: No, there was Farm Road 60, former Jones Bridge was on Farm Road 60. N: OK K: You can still see the remnants of it, just north of the present bridge, and it was two lanes. N: Scary. J: One and a half lanes, perhaps. - LAUGHTER- 19 N: A little scary to go across. K: There was also Koppe Bridge until it burned. R: Koppe Bridge, yeah. K: We used to take kids, we took kids out there for a pep rally across Koppe Bridge. Out in the cotton field area out there, and we'd let the kids walk across the bridge and drove the bus across it. It was that rickety. N: Oh. K: That was back in the '50's. N: There is no low water crossings, and that's because.. . J: No. R: No, there weren't. N: You couldn't have one on the Brazos. T: No. I don't know of any places that shallow, but what's more, that river is too treacherous for low river, for low crossing. There are a lot of people that have died in that Brazos because of the eddies and whirlpools and the uncertainty of the bottom. J: There's another bridge across the Brazos, it's between Farm Road 60 and Highway 21, it's called Pitts Bridge. P- I- T -T -S, Pitts Bridge. And the ruins of it are still there, you have to go down the river in a canoe to find it, but. . R: I think there used to be a ferry there. J: That's right, the Pitts Ferry. R: The Pitts Ferry. J: And, it just went, from a country road, across the river into some of the farm land, plantation land that was on the west side of the Brazos River. I think Koppe Bridge was the same way. The road on this side went down to Koppe Bridge. When you crossed Koppe Bridge, you look over there and, and I don't remember seeing a road. K: Well, it was really "turning rows" from there on, and cotton fields. N: Well, they'd be off to bring the cotton to market, or.. . J: I guess so, you got to get cotton into the gin. K: Well that was a way to get across, 'cause there was the road that, I suppose Farm Road 50 was fundamental back m the earlier days, I don't know, but you could make connections to Farm Road 50 through the fields. J: I remember traveling, back in the '30's, in Texas when, we would have to open gates. We'd be driving, especially in, in Southwest Texas, be driving across someone's pasture and frequently would stop and ask directions if we wanted to get to Robstown or to Alice or to one of those towns. But, we'd be following this kind of a trail, or it, at least would be a dirt road, but frequently we'd stop the car and get out, and open a gate. And we'd go through the gate. N: You said, asking directions, well, what was a map, none of those roads had maps? J: Some of the roads were not on maps. N: So that was the only way to get to where you wanted to go? J: That's right, there were a lot of towns, that, to get from one town to the other, you'd have to kind of ask someone how to get there. T: Do it like the crow flies. 20 J: From here, from College Station to Huntsville, for example, was kind of difficult. You could go on Highway 21 from Bryan to Madisonville and then take U.S. 75 down to Huntsville, but that was a long way around. The other way was to go to Navasota and take the road from Navasota to Anderson and finally you'd get to Huntsville. And I remember one time that we just thought that there should be a better way. And so, we just followed country roads, we wound up in Plantersville, and that road was gravel for a good many miles, just gravel. I can remember getting into Plantersville and just a little bitty place on the road, but you had to frequently stop and ask people which turn to take to get to the town you wanted to get to. N: Nothing labeled. J: No labels, no highway signs. K: If we might back up just a little bit, Mr. Boone mentioned, the cattle and the farmer, the ranchers that raised the crops. In the early '50's we still had open range right here in the Brazos County. When I drove the school bus, there were cattle on the sides of the road all over, because if the land wasn't fenced, the cattle had the right to graze. T: There were signs on the highway to be caution for cattle. Between here and Navasota and Hempstead. N: That's because they really were loose, not just for the stray ones. T: Absolutely. No, no. You could drive down the highway and if, particularly after dark, all the sudden, here would be a great big old steer right out there in the middle of the road. And they, subsequently put up the signs to indicate, to warn you it was open land. We hit one, one time, had to stop to pry the fender off the tire. N: Well, if you, what I'm, seems to me, it's amazing The first thing you said is it only took three hours to get from Rose. J: Rosenberg. Or from here to Houston in about three hours. Those model A's did all right, as I say the speedometer went on up above 60, but you could cruise nearly 55 miles per hour all day. That's pretty good for a car that was last built in 1931. N: Well, that's what I was thinking. That's that it can almost take you that long now, to go. Let me see what time it is and we can see what we've missed now. Easterwood Airport. Easterwood Airport. Well, we talked about the airplanes but we really didn't talk about the airport except.. . J: I can remember when it just had some hangers out there and had a short runway. During W.W.II, the government wanted some runways built around the country that military planes could land in on in an emergency and that's how we got our first good runway at Easterwood. It was. It had to be long enough for a B -29 to land on, in case there was an emergency, and as I recall that runway was about a mile long. And a few years ago we decided that that was too short for the big planes, so it was extended. I do remember reading in The Battalion newspaper when, they added the runway, it already provided an emergency landing spot for B -29's. 21 N: The building itself, I mean, when we first came here 20 years ago, it was a fairly old, but not that old of the little building? J: It was post war. Henry Mayfield was the architect of that terminal. That was built after the war. Pm going to say around maybe '48. Do you remember, Ed? E: '48 or a year or two later. J: Yeah, '48 or '50. And that, we thought that was a great terminal. N: I liked it myself. It was really nice to be able to, like you said, the children drive up to the gate and you could watch your daddy's plane land and then he throws his suitcase off. I kind of miss that. It was real personal. J: I really miss the service that Davis Airlines gave us. That was personalized service, I really miss that. K: I do too. J: And he got to Dallas and Houston in about the same times as the planes we have now. Took about oh, 30 minutes to Houston and about an hour to Dallas. T: When I was coming from out of state, from Dallas, not so much from Houston, although, I could have. From Dallas, I found out, after Pd flown two or three times, that I'd actually flown in Jack Marsh's plane that he had leased to Davis Airlines and I knew Jack and his sister Louise. N: Well, when did Mr. Davis, when did that close down? I can't remember. J: He sold to Rio Airlines. Rio was our commuter airline for a while, but he sold that, I lost track of time, I would say in the 19... was it the early '80's? N: I was thinking Davis was still here when we came in '75. It was still Davis Airlines. I just can't remember. That's too bad they can't be that personal anymore. T: It was much better than any other commuter arrangement, in my opinion, that's been set up since then. N: And he flew both ways? T: Yes. He'd go to Dallas and unload, refuel, load up again and come back. N: There was one man, one pilot? All: Several pilots. T: However, I flew copilot on that plane one time and I do not fly a plane. J: He was very careful in his selection of pilots. He was very particular. T: Yes. J: And his pilots didn't make but one mistake and then they had to go and work for someone else. He was one of the most careful pilots that I've ever ridden with. N: Well, if you can fly up next to him you get to see, too. T: Well, they were awfully nice. I know several times the pilot would ask me if I had anybody to meet me. If not, they would call them to let them know I was coming in. They really were nice people. N: Here's one question they want to know: Why your family moved to this area. Most of you moved here because of the University. But you didn't. You came to be a school teacher? K: I came with aspirations to go back to school and work on a Ph.D., which I never had an opportunity to do. N: So, the University brought you here, also. 22 K: The name of A &M and Entomology brought me here. It has a good name at the graduate level. I don't know what the undergraduate level is now. I dreamed of going back to school, but family sort of takes care of that, sometimes. N: Sometimes. J: I would say that it was our good fortune that Mr. Morgan did come back here, because he was one of the outstanding teachers at Consolidated for many years. My son went to school with him and we appreciate the fine job he did as a teacher here. So, I'm glad you came back here and then decided to teach. R: That goes for me, as well, Mr. Morgan. We had four over there. N: Now, when did you retire from there? K: 1980 N: 1980. And what subjects did you teach? K: Life Sciences N: In High School level? K: Yes. N: Well, I guess my kids wouldn't have made it that far. They're just now in middle school. Let's see... And if you wanted to go to the big city you went to Houston or Austin? T: Houston, primarily. It was closest. Easiest to get to. E: If you'd go down to Foley's the day after Thanksgiving, you'd see all of College Station down there. N: Did anybody carpool? Or did everybody just to in their own cars? T: We either went by car or we'd...See, there weren't enough stores in the early days. We'd go to Houston twice a year, at least, as a family to seasonal clothes shop. We'd go late summer for fall school clothes, and then we'd go in the spring for Easter and summer clothes. Because there were no clothing stores here, hardly any at all including Bryan. And, so we'd either drive the car or we'd take the train and we'd combine shopping with a little bit of business down there and we'd go to lunch together and we'd also go to the big movies. Big project. N: So he said the day after Thanksgiving. That was because A &M got a holiday? The faculty got a holiday? And they would go down shopping? Christmas shopping? J: There were no chain stores here, and while there were supermarkets, there was a time when A &M faculty got a little upset at local grocery stores, and so two families would carpool and drive to Houston to buy groceries. Ed may remember that. E: I know some folks who did it. J: It was just a little bit of a boycott of local grocery stores for a while. So that meant that the trip to Houston wasn't all that bad if you'd go down there for groceries. N: How far in Houston would you have to drive to get to a decent grocery store? J: Well, there were Weingarten's and Henke & Pillot's, which later became Krogers, on this side of town. You didn't have to go all the way through Houston. R: Well, I think it is Northstore mall NorthWest Mall. J: NorthWest Mall, where Foley's is. 23 R: That really was a great boost to the shopping, for us. Because then we didn't have to go all the way in to Houston. It was closer to Bryan/College Station. So, we could hit the shopping mall there. Without having to go all the way in and fight the traffic. N: Well, when I first moved here in the late '70's, a lot of people were going to Austin to shop. J: Highland Mall began to attract some people here, but back in the early days, we tried to avoid Austin, didn't we? We had an aversion to Austin. Bad highways. All: Very bad highways. Dangerous, very dangerous. J: 21 from Bryan through Caldwell to Lincoln was a death trap and a lot of students died on that highway. Longhorn students as well as Aggies. N: What was so bad about it? R: It was a small, two lane highway. It was a gravel top farm road, wasn't it? T: Yes, it was winding and it was elevated because of drainage in the riverbed. So if you got off on the shoulder, there wasn't much shoulder and you could flip very easily. R: We've lost students during every game or activity that was held. T: During the '40's I rode a bus home on that all the time because I had to go, well, I would have anyway to Texas University. They didn't let girls go here at that time. I rode the Greyhound and felt perfectly secure doing so. But the bus took up the whole lane, I remember there wasn't any extra space between that center stripe and the shoulder. N: And it was elevated. T: Yes, it had to be. You see, all of that, all the way to Caldwell is low drainage area for the Brazos Valley. So, the highways and the roads, in order not to be flooded all the time just by heavy rains, were elevated quite a bit above the farmland. Just like the road to the bridge is. Out off of Riverside campus. That's a little extreme, but it is still is pretty elevated. N: Well, now that was an airfield? T: Yes, Bryan Airfield. J: Plus, it was Bryan Army Airfield in World War H. And, it closed and everybody felt Bryan and College Station would die, but it didn't. And then it reopened again, as Bryan Air Force Base. So it had two lives before it finally closed for good. N: So they never, I wasn't listening close enough, I guess, to why Easterwood stayed Easterwood, and the airport didn't move out there. I thought there was some discussion at one time of that. J: Well, we had Easterwood before there was a Bryan field. And then, the military had it, and there was some discussion before this last improvement of Easterwood that maybe we should look at Bryan Air Force Base because it had runways, but those runways were old, also, and they would have needed a lot of work. The decision was made to stay at Easterwood, now. T: Back when I was talking about going to Houston, I was talking about before the malls were built. In my youth, we'd go all the way downtown to main street where the dime stores were and the old Rice Hotel and the Forum Cafeteria and the movies. I mean, we went to the center of town. 24 N: Was Foley's and Sachowitz? T: No. J: There was one Foley's. It was Foley's Brothers' dry goods store. N: I can remember one time shopping in Houston in Foley's, down there. T: And Buster Brown shoes. N: Get your school shoes. T: Yes. See, they're really, before, well, I don't want to put a time frame on it, but I'm talking about the '30's, early '30's. And, the only clothing stores in College Station were absolutely related to uniform shopping for students. So we had to go to Bryan which was, literally, five miles away. And, even there, there was very little in the way of clothing stores. And you got to realize that they didn't have the sizing for children and teens, and all this kind of stuff, that they do now. Anyway, the stores did not have, they had very little for families to buy for their children. N: What about if you were going to make your own clothes? Did your mother sew? Were there supplies? Or would you have to go to Houston for that? T: Oh yes. There were supplies for that. Primarily Edge's, which just recently closed. N: And Pruitt's at Southside. All: Pruitt's, yes, later. T: Pruitt's was going strong by the late '30's, I know, because I sewed quite a bit in those days. And I remember getting yard goods there. It was probably the best place to get them. Edge's had some, but Pruitt's had a much wider selection. In my early days, Edge's was the department store, so to speak. And Conway's was the shop for men's clothing No ladies clothing R: And Lewis's, the shoe store for children. N: Now these stores, they would get their supplies offthe train? Or by truck? T: I would assume it was train. Train was the major source of supplies. N: We're talking about transportation in freight. T: Now I don't know where the food supplies, that was a question about the Northgate Lane. The grocery stores were at Northgate in the early days. N: Well, the freight store... There was no freight depot ever, here. A big freight area. J: There was in Bryan N: That would be in Bryan, but not here. J: In College Station there were two passenger depots, the Missouri Pacific and the Southern Pacific depots. But they were passenger trains. I don't recall a freight station. E: Before our time there was a spare line running to the power plant from the mainline And sprayed icees all over south College Station. But when they.. . N: So they used at first? J: The spur came offthe main line just a little bit north of the College Station Depot and it curved around just this side of Northgate, just south of Northgate and went into the power plant. It also went into Sbisa Dining Hall. Sbisa got all of their supplies in by railroad cars. They had a sliding right out there by the.. . T: Kind of where the Duncan Home was. J: It was between the Duncan Home and the Sbisa Hall that the track came in there. 25 T: Pd forgotten about that. R: There were two short railroad lines, but those probably were more in Bryan, than they were in College Station. One was called the Jack train, and the other was called the Peabody train. J: Peavine. Those went from Bryan down to the Brazos bottoms. They were mainly for hauling cotton. R: So, actually that was north of College Station. J: Yes. R: P -Line? J: Peavine. You can still see the remains of the bridge on Highway 21. Going from Bryan towards the Brazos River if you look to the right on the Little Brazos River you can see the remains of the bridge that the Peavine railroad used to go over. R: The big pilings over there? Yes. J: On what's called the Little Brazos. N: Those were just cotton lines. J: It went across the Brazos and then it turned south and followed the Brazos south, I think almost as far as the Koppe Bridge area. I've seen old maps of that track and I don't know how they kept it above water because it was down there where Pm sure it got flooded out many times. But it was used to haul cotton into the gin in Bryan. R: Mr. Zubik of Bryan can tell you about those two shortlines if you need information on those lines. N: They are privately owned? R: I don't know who owned them. I don't think they were. J: I don't know. T: There were a lot of privately owned railways in those days. R: I don't think these two were. N: It didn't carry any passengers unless it was someone coming in off of.. . T: I think you could hitch a ride on stuff like that. N: Well what about... was there a bad problem with hobos coming through on so many trains? T: Well, during the depression I remember as a child, at that age Hived at Northgate, in A &M the Presbyterian Church of Manse. And we did have a rather regular consistent flow of both bums as well as quite honorable men out of luck looking for jobs. And we never turned anybody away. They always did something I don't know how many times our wood pile was moved, but they did something for their meal. J: They expected the work. T: They expected... It helped to preserve their dignity. And Dad would have them do something in order to have a meal. Some of them, you could tell, not really looking for work, but they were hungry. But most of them, during those days, I was not very old, but I do remember feeling the emotion of the time. Some of those men were hard working and honorable. They were talking about having their families join them. They were threadbare, but as neat as possible. *Note: Piece of interview missing due to changing the audio tape. 26 J: They pushed the freight cars in. They would get on the sliding over there and the locomotives would get behind them and push them in and then the locomotives would back out. N: There's a question here they wanted to know: How many passenger cars were there to each engine on the train? J: Well, the Sunbeam which was what we called the streamliner, it was kind of an orange color, it was pulled by a steam locomotive, but it had a streamlining sheet metal skirt around it so it would look nice. It would have six, eight, ten cars. R: Didn't it used to be called the Zephyr? J: The Zephyr was the one that went through North Zulch. That was the Zephyr. The Burlington Rock Island Zephyr. It was also what we called the streamliner It was silver. It had silver siding on it. Silver sheet metal. T: Oh, It was so exciting when that train came through. J: Different trains They were comfortable. The seats were comfortable. If you rode Amtrak, before they pulled out of town last year, you had an idea about the comfort. Plenty of room, not like an airplane at all. Plenty of room to move around. It was just a nice way to travel. N: Did they run specials when the students were coming back to campus? J: We even had, when we played Baylor we had a special train. We'd ride a special train from here to Waco. Just ninety miles. N: So, every event had a special as well as when they would arrive for opening semester. J: The cadet corps went to the games in Fort Worth or Dallas or Houston on the trains. All together. It would be a special train. It was very inexpensive. We would have to buy tickets, but it was very cheap. N: Now you had these streamline trains but there was also the local. Did the local have a freight car? It probably had the mail car. J: Those were called mixed freights. I don't remember a mixed freight coming through here. But in some areas you'd see a mixed freight. It would be a locomotive and freight cars and maybe one or two passenger cars on the back end of that. But they were called mixed freights. N: We already covered where the freight cars went. T: It was quite an event in my childhood when the train came in. And the big old luggage carts, I don't know what you call them, stood as tall as I was at that age. Great, big, metal wheels, tugs on the wagons, and letting the steam out of the steam engines. It was quite an event to go down. I mean, that could be Sunday afternoon entertainment. N: When the train arrived... How average of a number that would. ..I'm trying to find out what the volume was. J: Sometimes thirty or forty people would get off the train or get on. Sometimes, like in the middle of the week, there would be just a few. But, I remember when the last year that the Sunbeam ran, on the weekends you'd have to stand up on the train to Houston, but they took the train off saying it didn't have enough passengers. I never could understand that and it was full, full of people. But of 27 course, I was thinking only on weekends. We'd go home on weekends. But on Wednesdays or Tuesdays I guess the train might have been running lightly loaded. T: I don't remember an awful lot of people being on the platform at the railroad station at any particular time. That may be a completely wrong memory, fact, but I don't remember there being a crowd of people. I remember a time or two when I felt as a child, maybe threatened by people behind me because the train tracks were lower than the railroad station and feeling like I might get pushed of so to speak. Of course, in those days it was segregated so we did have separate waiting rooms for the blacks and whites. Not too many blacks riding in those days. J: If you want to see what the Sunbeam looked like, it appears in the movie that was made here, "We've Never Been Licked." The opening part of the movie starts off with a train scene. That was the Sunbeam. And when that was finned, the train pulled in from Houston, to the station, and they put the actors and actresses on the train, it backed up down the track, several miles, and then came in, again, so they could get a scene of them getting off the train. N: Was that an event to have that filmed here? J: Oh, yes. R: Robert Mitchum was the star in that. My husband was in that. We used to, every year, it was an annual affair, we'd make our children sit down and watch that movie. J: And try to find Daddy. R: And try to find Daddy, and it just so happened that his only appearance was among the corps as they were marching into Sbisa. And this scene would come and he would say, "Did you see me ?" They said, "No, we didn't see you." "Ahight, you're going to have to sit and watch it again." - LAUGHTER - They said they were gone and married before they were relieved of that responsibility to have to sit and watch the movie. N: They really used the original train, the company? J: Yes, and the railroad company agreed to delay the train long enough for them to back it up the tracks, and come in again. Seems like they did it a couple of tunes to get several shots. But the movie people, they were here on campus, as I recall, several weeks doing different scenes and the school was turned out for at least two days while they shot scenes of the cadet corps marching back and forth. T: And the stars stayed at the Duncan's house which was next to Sbisa Hall. J: And it was something having those Hollywood stars on campus. N: What year was that? I forget. J: Oh around '42, '43. R: There was an espionage plot mixed in. There was supposed to be a Japanese involved, student involved in this, well it was quite a movie of intrigue and that sort of thing. J: The only actor who people today would remember is probably Robert Mitchum. The others drifted off into other areas of activity, but Noah Beery, Jr. was in the Rockford Files until he died. R: Yes, that's right. N: I suppose everyone showed them great Texas hospitality. 28 R: Absolutely. J: Martha 0' Driscoll had the second lead; the lady that had the first lead was Ann Gwynne. Both beautiful ladies. I never could figure out why they never got to be big stars because they were both very beautiful ladies. T: I had a pair of shoes that Ms. Duncan gave me. The lady. And I couldn't remember her name. She wore these shoes in the film. J: All the seniors were trying to date those girls. T: Oh, I bet. N: Oh, I bet so. J: Rumors were flying. T: We locals didn't have a chance. J: We were pushing to take them to Franklin's Franklin's was a little night spot right across from where the A &M research center is now on Farm Road 60. That was a neat place to go, I guess. N: Oh, one thing we haven't talked about: Getting drivers licenses. Becoming a licensed driver. J: Didn't have to have one, did we? T: I've been driving since I was, let's see, what was the limit then? Fourteen, when you were eligible, or was it sixteen? But I had been driving about two years before I got my license. The first question on the application at the Brazos County City Hall, I guess, because it was in Bryan, was how long have you been driving? And I just, quite honestly, said two years. I thought later, golly, I might have lost my license. J: I remember that question. The first question on the application: How long have you been driving? Well, here you are applying for a license. It's catch 22. Do you tell them the truth? T: And see, there was no defensive driving courses at that time and there was no qualified driving with a licensed driver. I don't know how in the world they expected you to learn.. And that's the reason apparently they had been paying attention to it. You know, I'm going to get a license and drive and not know how to drive. You know, that authorizes you to drive a car. A drivers license does. So you got to know how. N: Well, did you have to study a book for traffic? T: I don't remember doing any of that. J: The only test that I had to pass was an eye test, and I flunked that. That's how I learned that I had to have glasses. N: Driving a bus, did you have to have a special license to drive a bus? K: Chauffer's. Yes. But now that was modern days. When I got my driver's license in Mississippi I went to the patrolman's house at night, gave him 25 cents, and I guess filled out a little piece of paper and got my license. I was fifteen. N: Did you get a license the same way? E: Well, I went in between classes and my roommate took me in and I went out, we went out on a Saturday and didn't do it, and we went out there during the week, and I had about a ten page booklet. I read it, I took the test, took about five 29 minutes, made a 100 %. I drove about a block, he said that's fine. I parallel parked first. You had to do that. T: I don't remember passing the test at all. I just remember how lucky I was to be able to get a license when I was honest enough to say I had been driving for two years. R: I learned to drive in a cow pasture. So, I had been driving for about two years before we bought our car and took our first job, this was out in Sterling City, Texas. It's a big metropolis, about 800 people. And, took my driver's license out on a country road and just showed that I knew how to maneuver the car, and I didn't have to parallel park. He did ask me some questions, and that was it. But I thought I was going to lose my license before I got it, because the officer said to me, "I want you to increase your speed and when I tell you to stop, I want you to stop, immediately." Well, we had already had the children and I had been accustomed to driving to the grocery store with one child sitting in the front. So I was always watching out for this child. So when he said Stop!, I put my feet on the brake and held on to the steering wheel and slapped him in the chest with my right arm. It so happened that I hit the clipboard and the clipboard hit him. I just knew I had broken two ribs, and I was so embarrassed, and I thought well, this is it, Pll never get my license. It was just an automatic reaction. I told him, whenever I put my foot on the brake, my right arm always comes out. Well, he passed me. N: You were a good child restraint. R: With the caution that the children should always be in the backseat, never in the front. N: Any of you involved in any accidents? No? Good! There seem to be so many now. R: Yes, it's terrible. J: I remember one question about that: How many cars do you think there were in New York City when they had their first automobile accident? Answer: Two. I've heard there were only two cars in New York City and they managed to find each other at an intersection. N: Oh my goodness. T: That's not a joke? J: No, that's supposed to be true. N: I saw something about a pasture and these two Maltese that just run into each other out in the middle of a pasture. T: Maybe that's like riding a bicycle and seeing a rock in the street. I'm not going to hit that rock no matter what! Pm going to go around it. N: We've talked about the paved streets. And the hitchhiking, you said it was just people passing through town that would know where the Aggies would stay? J: All over Texas people knew about Aggies and everybody was in uniform, so you could get a ride almost anywhere. And it was not considered dangerous, then for either the passenger or the driver. People would stop and pick you up. Nowadays, I have to confess, I don't pick up hitchhikers, either, because it is not safe. 30 N: Would you meet a lot of interesting people that way? J: Oh yes. Yes, one time, I was picked up by a real nice looking coupe. Do people know what a Coupe is? It is a car with two doors and one seat. And the gentleman who was driving it was a member of the legislature. I can't remember his name, now, but he was pretty well known, then. And he got stopped for speeding and I remember what a masterful job he did at talking to the patrolman. He talked him out of the ticket. And I sat there and thought, you know, that guy really knows how to deal with people. Because he was stopped for speeding, and by the time he got through, the patrolman decided not to write the ticket. But that's why this guy was a politician, I guess. N: Was it a state politician or a U.S.? J: Yes, he was in the state legislature. He did remind the patrolman of the last raise they got that was approved by the legislature. N: Well, I think it is ten after 12:00. We've just been chatting. . R: It has been really enjoyable. It really has. T: It's amazing what comes to mind in these sessions. N: Talking about the demise of passenger rail, I'm afraid I have to blame my father. He was at Southern Pacific in Hearne for years, and then he said, "A &M, those passengers, they were too much trouble." J: Freight, you know, cattle don't complain. Freight doesn't complain, actually though, the thing that killed rail passenger service was the car. We are all guilty. But it was the automobile that killed the passenger service on the railroads. It killed the interurban railways, too. The interurban railways, which we mentioned we had one here, but the one from Houston to Galveston was a great railway. And that thing, it started out in downtown Houston. I can remember seeing people walking out of church on a Sunday, after services, had a picnic basket in their hand, and get on that interurban railway and in fifty minutes they would be on the beach in Galveston having a picnic. Fifty minutes. You can't do it today with the freeway. But the rail from Houston, once it left town, to Galveston was exactly straight. There was not a one degree deviation in it, straight. They were cruising at ninety miles an hour on that track, and it was fast, and it was a great service. A company went around the country buying up all those trolley lines. They bought them, it was during the depression when money was scarce, but they bought them for less than they were worth. Then they would take up the track and sell it for scrap, and sold the rolling stock, and wound up with more money than they paid for it. So they just, what they did was just scrapped them out at a time when some of them were still making money. N: Well, I think my father said there was one from Waco area to Dallas? J: Yeah. And then once it got there it went down the city streets so you could stop at the different stores. The thing that killed that line was a head on collision. It was still going in 1950, and they had a head on collision and the lawsuits wiped them out. T: I didn't know where they came from, but I remember those in Dallas. N: I know he said he took that home when he came home from the war. J: Yes, that was a fast, fast line from Waco into Dallas. It was faster than the trains. 31 N: So what were they powered by? J: Electricity. They had a trolley. A trolley wire. Electric motors on them. And that's why they could go so fast. They were a great idea. They were pollution free. The only pollution was at the power plant where you generated the electricity, but it is easier to control pollution in one place than it is to control it on all these diesel engines you have. T: The electric cars might bring that circle back to the beginning. K: I have a question since your father was in the railroad business. Mr. Boone says the trains would go ninety miles an hour, these inter - urbans and so on, trolleys, but they were on regular tracks, weren't they? J: Well, the interurban had it's own track. There was no railroad train on that track. K: Did it have ties? J: Yes. K: Now we have machines that maintain all these railroad tracks and it seems to me like we have more accidents today than we did when men maintained the tracks, the rails. N: That's how my father started out is a gandy dancer. I have his, that big.. . J: Handcar N: Yes, it's like a big crowbar. What do you call that? J: It's a handcar. R: A g... N: A gandy dancer. R: A gandy dancer. I had never heard that before. J: A railroad track maintenance man was called a gandy dancer. N: Well, they used to do it to the rhythm, I guess. K: But it seems that we didn't have the accidents, but we had speed. What's the difference? J: I don't know why these trains keep derailing. T: Are the beds old, or not maintained? K: They are maintained. They have these machines that go down there and pack that rock and level that rail. I don't know how well, how regular, but I saw one on our track by our house the other day. But it does it all by machine what men used to do with oars and picks and shovels. N: I don't know how they watch over the tracks. My daddy was a of engines out of Hearne for years. And one of the things, he had to go around and check the tracks and check the time tables, and sometimes, we'd always go out on Sunday afternoons and wait for the train to come by and watch for hot boxes, and all kind of stuff. But, I don't know if they still do that, or if that's all electronically maintained. J: They have sensors now along the track that watch for the hot boxes, you know, at different intervals there will be a sensor that picks up the hot boxes. But they still have the derailments. Now, I don't know whether there is more freight being moved today, and that is why they have more derailments, or what their reason is. R: What is a hot box? J: An overheated wheel bearing. 32 K: You don't have them anymore much, do you, with the roller bearings? Do they still have hot boxes? Used to you could say I'm going down the train. They'd be glowing red hot. N: And if you reported one to the train, you got a reward. R: Oh, really? N: So if you reported a hot box to the train line you got a reward. Cash reward. J: It was just a smooth faced bearing with waste, cotton waste in there, and they just wet the waste with oil. And that's what lubricated the axle. And it rolled on a smooth face. No bearings at all, just a flat face. T: Well, I think Pm correct out in West Texas on the Santa Fe Railroad. In maintaining that is recent as 15 to 20 years ago the Apache tribes from New Mexico maintained the beds out there manually, so to speak, the men did it. The last time I remember seeing them come through, working on the rails, they had equipment. They were replacing railroad rails, rapidly. And there's several places on that line between Littlefield and Lubbock that it just does not hold up. You can see the trains going over the same areas which parallel the highway. And you can see those trains just going like this and that, just rocking. J: I go along that route quite a bit visiting our son in Albuquerque, and we spend the night outside Lubbock. Those Santa Fe trains are almost bumper to bumper About every 20 to 30 minutes here comes another long train. So, it could be that it's just a lot of traffic, and that is what's.. . T: Where do you stay outside of Lubbock? J: At the K.O.A. campground just north of Lubbock. It's between there and Shallowater. The first night or two I camped, the trains, you know, would wake me up every time they came by. T: Next time, on the way to Littlefield, there is a free campsite there you might try. J: We see the sign there, we keep thinking we're going to try that. T: Lots of letters received by all over the nation. N: It's now 12:20 on 16 April 1996 and we're closing our discussion of transportation in College Station and elsewhere and other things. - LAUGHTER- T: And lots of other things. 33 e. .ks: Memory Lan Name Interviewer City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Interview Place �- l Special sources of information Date tape received in office Original Photographs Yes Describe Photos First audit check by Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Date Signed Restri ' Transcription: First typing completed by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by Oral History Stage Sheet Interview No. Interview date L/- Interview length 47 ,1 o # of tapes marked 2-- Date No # of photos Date Rec'd (name) (name) Pages Pages Proofread by: 1) Photos out for reproduction: Original photos returned to: Indexed by: Sent to bindery by Received from bindery Deposited in archives by: (na e Yes ns- If yes, see remarks below. Yes Where to: Pages ( Pages Date: Date: Date Date Date Date No No Date h 4, Date Date _ y( Date - -/ Date Date irks: Memory Lane: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet (rarcrYiabilA f Interview No_ Interviewer Nadi KO_ A Interview date I I -1 6 -c go' Interview Place --- I Interview length 5(4 195.s. Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Reed Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes Date Signed "ons lf yes, see remarks below. Yes Transcription: First typing completed by I AJ. _ Pages (e Date F ame) First audit check by f // Pages Sent to interviewee on (� /ie ) / Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by l� D Pages " (name) Final copies: Typed by Pages 5CA Date Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to binGlery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date No No D a te - 7 ///g g (I irks: City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Memory Lane: ii Q (\S0r)✓T4anv1 Interview No. Name fcL 0{ Interview date 4- a(,, -qa interviewer A / , n & .54 'i Interview length 61 ,, fl41 Interview Place T j � - ) -- Special sources of information Date tape received in office # of tapes marked Date Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restricti ns- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by 7 Pages 5c42 Date (4iq/ i 1. First audit check by Sent to interviewee on t111i/ /f Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by Oral History Stage Sheet (na name) (name) Pages Pages Date Pages Date Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2) Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to binflery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date R. irks: Memory Lane: Interviewer flf 34-uhf„ Interview Place 1 Special sources of information Date tape received in office Original Photographs Yes Describe Photos Name Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed - Restri chs- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: _ Pages c C a Date CJ / /L //4 First typing completed by,/L First audit check by Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Indexed by: Sent to bindery by Received from bindery Deposited in archives by: Interview No. Interview date -`1(L Interview length ./ , # of tapes marked Date No # of photos Date Recd (name) me) 1 L/r/ Copy editing and second audit check by • k name) Proofread by: 1) 2! Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Original photos returned to: Pages Pages Pages Pages Pages Date: Date: Date Date Date Date Date Date Date Date arks: Memory Lane: (NrOVlS erw4rArivi Name Ed, 1-401A Interviewer %\l Interview Place • Te, I Special sources of information Date tape received in office Original Photographs Yes No # of photos Date Rec'd Describe Photos Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Final copies: Typed by City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet interview No. Interview date 4 4- uo -q U Interview length J G (name) # of tapes marked "- Date Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Y Date Sig -- --' Restri "ons- ff yes, see remarks below. Yes Transcription: First typing completed by .��� Y )" -e'-- Pages CP Date (name) First audit check by Pages (na e) Pages Date Pages Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date 2 % Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date No Date City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project This is , frJ Q S +Ldtl . Today is ArRt ( I , 19? (month) (day) (year) I'm interviewing for the 1 s r time A ��t1_ I (Mr., ivirs., Miss, Ms. , Di. , Etc.) This interview is taking place in Room TG / of The - Melt t Cew' e C' f e u, em , c e at 1300 George Bush Dr. C e vcbe lz College Station , Texas . This interview is sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and the Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station, Texas. It is part of the Memory Lane Oral History Project. Have each person introduce themselves so their voice is identifiable on the tape recorder. with The City of College Station, Texas Memory Lanes Oral History Project INTERVIEW AGREEMENT The purpose of The Historic Preservation Committee is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of the tape - recorded interview. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from such interviews become part of the archives of The City of College Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee to be used for whatever purposes may be determined. I have read the above and voluntarily offer my portion of the interviews (Name of Interviewee) 1. 2. i� ,L � 1'1 7. 3 . . l l m 01 6 r) lip 9. 4 . Rne?Smriio 1 /k ivi 10. 5. T,° -t in 1 %0 I We h 11. 6. 12. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, I hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to The City of Colle e Station Historic Preservation Committee and Conf e C me %% 44 In e iewer (signatu e Date Arai ! Ito. 1991) Arad t as Interviewer (Please Print) I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interviewer (Please Print) Signature of Interviewer Place of Interview List of photos, documents, maps, etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET J cs 2- . Boo/vE -I rZ Interviewee (Please print) `1 nature .f . Intervi�fiee /4 - nature Z , �dc�2i✓ _ Name _ / //c Lc)000 4vExi c/ Address c6LL ? : s r - -' 7 74 Telephone Date of Birth /S 4 7 Place of Birth M©u.S p,v, 7.< INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interviewer (Please Print) Signature of Interviewer Place of Interview List of photos, documents. mans. etc. Interviewee (Please print) I‹ (1_ C `) Sig � r ature of Inteiewee /� . e • / b Name 51 6,2 scHA ✓-i OJ Address Vi-L- c G G" S 7 7/77 Dirt Th . 7 78 Telephone 44-09 - 6 9a -- 4 a Date of Birth 1D —/6— 23 Place of Birth h,, s ; 1 Sc., PP/ INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Ebe..)i Interviewee (P1 ase print) Signature of Intekvieitee List of photos, documents, maps, etc. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET Interviewer (Please Print) Signature of Interviewer Place of Interview Name i'//0 A�S,4 Address C 9 2 3G �3 Telephone Date of Birth 3 — _: 3 '/ Place of Birth INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed Date Initial In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE City of College Station, Texas 77840 ORAL HISTORY DATA SHEET I hereby give and grant to the HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, City of College Station, Texas, for whatever purposes may be determined, the tape recordings, transcriptions, and contents of this oral history interview. Also, permission is hereby given for any duplications of original photos, documents, maps, etc. useful to the history project to be returned unharmed. Interviewee releases, relinquishes and discharges CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from all claims, demands, and causes of action of every kind and character, including the cost of defense thereof, for any injury to, including the cost of defense thereof for any injury to, including death of, any person, whether that person be a third person, Interviewee, or an employee of either of the parties hereto, and any loss of or damage to property, whether the same be that either of the parties hereto or of third parties, caused by or alleged to be caused by, arising out of, or in connection with Interviewee provision of historical information, whether or not said claims, demands and causes of action in whole or in part are covered by insurance. Interviewer (Please Print) Signature of Interviewer Place of Interview List of photos. documents. mans, etc. Interviewee (Please print) Si ture of % ervi'ewee N J Addfess s' o : d 417,r s Telephone (Ve9) 6 925 • o 2 1 Date of Birth �,9w 3. /.5".2. Place of Birth2/Cr.i,42S n Date Initial INTERVIEW STATUS: Completed In progress Interviewee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold harmless CITY, its officers, agents and employees, from and against any and all claims, losses, damages, causes of action, suits and liability of every kind, attorney's fees, for injury to or death of any person, or for damage to any property, arising out of or in connection with the use of the items and information referenced aboved by CITY, its agents, representatives, assigns, invitees, and participants under this grant. Such indemnity shall apply where the claims, losses damages, causes of action, suits or liability arise in whole or in part from the negligence of city.