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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 05Moderator - Charlotte Bergstad Camcorder Operator - David Transcriptionist - Sharla Beason Interviewers - Buck Weirus Charles Lewis Romey Sorenson Oral History February 19, 1997 "Military" Y1al Co 109 1 We are interviewing for the first time Mr. Buck Weirus, Mr. Charles Lewis, and Mr. Romey Sorenson. And this interview is taking place in room 105 at the College Station Conference Center on George Bush Drive in College Station, Texas. And this interview is being sponsored by the Historic Preservation Committee and Conference Center Advisory Committee of the City of College Station. It is part of the memory lane Oral History Project. CB I am going to have everybody introduce themselves and say it nice and slow please because we want to get it on video and on the tape and this way the transcriber who listens to your audio tape will be able to identify your voice more easily when you talk. So if we could start with you Mr. Sorenson. RS My name is Romey Sorenson, I live here in College Station. CL My name is Charles Lewis, I live in Bryan. BW My name is Buck Weirus and I live in College Station. CB Great, have ya'll all lived here long, long time? RS I have lived here 50 years. CB 50 years. And you Mr. Lewis? CL Well, I went to school here and graduated in 1939. And lived here except for the war years, the World War II years, and also Hived Maryland for 21 years. But I'm retired here now. CB Well great and how long have you been back? CL Since 1979. CB Well that's the same time my husband retired and we came back here. That's great! BW Well, I came here in 1938 but I went to World War II in 1943 and I came back here to work in 1961 and I've lived here ever since except when I retired in 1984 I moved to San Antonio and my wife died in `89 so I moved back here in 1990. So I had a break there for five or six years. CB Well, I'm glad to have you back. BW Thank you. RS I was a student at A &M from 1931 to 1935. Frrom 1935 to 1937 I was employed by John Deere Company and from September 1937 to November 1940 I was a professor at Tarleton University. I was in military service during the World War II years from November 1940 to March 1946. CB And been here ever since? I bet you know some of my neighbors. I use to have for a neighbor Army Lou, Loupot. RS Oh yes, he was my neighbor at one time. CB And Dr. Al Price? RS Yes, I know Al real well. CB He's been here since about 1946 -47. And so those are my neighbors. My illustrious neighbors and I love them very much. So that tells you that I live on Walton Drive. Well, since you all were here as students before the War or during the War, I won't have to ask questions about the Spanish American War. How about that? That was before our time isn't it? Well let me ask you this, Romey, Where is your home? RS Originally? CB Originally yes. RS I was born in Rockport, Texas. CB Rockport, OK. RS My mother and dad moved quite a bit while I was in school. Live in several places in south Texas, I finished high school in Corpus Christi, and came to A &M in 1931. CB OK, and Charles, how about you? 2 CL I was bom in Roaming Grove, Texas. That's a town between Corsicana and Hillsboro in Navarro County. CB OK, all right, and so you lived there most of the time until you came here? CL Hived there until I came to A &M and I really never did go back, my father died and my mother moved. CB And Mr. Weirus? BW I was born in Minneapolis and Hived in Chicago on a dairy farm in upper Wisconsin until I was fourteen years old. I came to Texas by myself to be with my mother in 1934. And I came on the train from Minneapolis to Kansas City including the Bluebonnet Special from Kansas City to San Antonio and I went to high school in San Antonio , Central Catholic High. I came up here in 1938. I graduated, I had to change courses, I had a conflict with calculus. CB I can understand that. BW So I graduated in 1943 in January. Went to OCS in Fort Seal, on a mission and went on from there. CB So I can imagine all three of you were in the army then during the war, CL No, the navy. CB The navy, I forgot there was the navy. I'm sorry. My husband is retired air force so you'll have to forgive me. OK, now let me see. I wanted to do, Where were you when you heard about the United States entering World War II and what did you do next. Who would like to go first? BW Well, I was I the mess hall, cleaning tables, December 7th. And when I got back to my room they said "Oh you don't know, but the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor." I said where is Pearl Harbor? And they said it's in Hawaii. I said "they bombed Pearl Harbor, that sounds ridiculous to me." I didn't believe it at first. I thought is was another one of those out of the world things CB Orson Wells things. RS I'll never forget where I was when I heard about the United States entering World War II. I was inducted into federal service in 1940, and was stationed at Brownwood at the time. As I was driving up to my father -in -law's home in Stephenville, I heard on my car radio that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. I told my wife then "Well, this is it, we're in the war." 3 CL In the spring of 1941, I signed up for training in the Navy Aviation Cadet Program. They allowed me to finish what I was doing and I went on active duty December 4th, 1941, and on December the 7th, Pearl Harbor, so I'd been on active duty for 3 days at the US Naval Air Station in Dallas. CB Well, bless your heart, you got in just in time didn't ya? CL My decision to join was not so bad after all, because everybody was going now. CB Did you fly off carriers? CL No, I, here's what I flew right there CB Oh, you brought some pictures, how wonderful! Now you'll have to tell me what that is. CL That's a Martin PBM Mariner. CB OK. CL A anti - submarine patrol bomber, or it could do an number of duties, but that's the main one. CB Well, wonderful and what other pictures did you bring? CL Here's my crew. CB And there's your crew. Oh, you had a large crew, sure did. My husband's a pilot or was a pilot in the Air Force, so planes all look the same to me, I'm sorry. It's kind of like the cars today. And your other pictures... CL This is a reserve duty after the war. CB Oh, I see. CL A Grumman S2F anti- submarine plane. CB Alright, well how wonderful. We'll get if it's OK with you, we'll get pictures of these later. So you were out looking for submarines then, OK Did any of you have any other family in the war, besides you all, any brothers? RS I had no immediate family CL I had no immediate family. 4 BW I had no immediate family. CB Oh, well BW My stepbrother. CB Yeah. BW He was in Chicago, went to the University of lllinois. CB Alrighty, during World War II, well let me ask you this, this is something that I would like to know it's not in my notes - -were any of you ever stationed at Bryan Field. RS I was not. CL No. CB No, nobody. Well maybe that's why nobody heard of it a whole lot. Ok, how about during World War II, sending and receiving letters to your family or to your wives back in the States, before we do that let me ask you this Where were you all stationed? Let's start. RS I was stationed at Brownwood, Texas, initially. CB In Brownwood, right? RS Stayed there until my unit moved to Fort Blanding, near Gainesville Florida; then we moved to Camp Edwards, Massachusetts, before we went over seas. In March 1943 we first went to Africa, and on September 9, 1943, made an amphibious landing at Salerno, Italy. In August 1944 we made a second amphibious landing in southern France. CB OK. CL As I said I began my service in Naval Air Station in Dallas. I was sent to Naval Air Station in Corpus Christi where I received my Navy wings. Same place President Bush went except that I finished before he did. CB Did you get to see him? 5 CL I was gone before he arrived. Then they commissioned of the PBM Martin Mariners in Norfolk Virginia. We picked up our planes in Corpus Christi and flew to San Juan, Puerto Rico for what they call a shake down cruise. To get us familiar with the airplanes and working together. Then we were assigned to duty BW I was an assistant at Ft Sill first sail and an instructor in 1943. And then I went to, overseas in 19 in the spring of 44 as an overseas replacement, 29th division, but my orders were changed. And I went to instead I went to Camp Beckers, Kentucky. While there it was a brand new activated battalion and they ordered us to Fort Seal again to take school in Fort Seals. And then we had to go overseas but they sent us to Fort Hood to take our battalion test and then we went overseas from there. CB And then where did you go, Europe? BW Europe, yes, we went into and medium artilleries. CB OK, so you were in the artillery division BW Yes. CB And Romey how about you? You saw a lot of action. RS Yes. CB But were you infantry? RS Yes, I was in the 142nd Infantry, 36th Division. CB OK, OK BW But we still landed around Africa, and we trained there for the amphibious landing in Italy and we landed there and went up through Italy and Naples and all north, 6 in the Panama Canal Zone to protect the shipping coming down from the East Coast to the Canal. The Germans kept a U- boat or two out there in the Caribbean to harass our ships. And then the next thing I know we went to Salinas, Ecuador, of all places, where we flew a screen from Salinas, Ecuador to the Galapagos Island in the Pacific and then up to the Carinto, Nicaragua, this was to prevent any ship entering the Canal Zone without detection. After Pearl Harbor, there was nothing between the Japanese and the Canal Zone except water. And we had to be sure they didn't slip up on us. And then my main duty was anti - submarine duty and flying out of Bermuda to cover the convoys going across the Atlantic. CB How interesting! You know my husband is a student of World War II. I watched the videos that Walter Cronkite did and so forth and Joe taught Military History over at A &M for 3 years and I had never heard that. To me that's interesting. I didn't realize that we were doing things like that. How about you, Buck? What did you do? until we brought back and trained in Southern France situation. We had another amphibious landing there in Southern France. CB Ok, as I remember my husband like I said is a student of military history and he really liked the movie Patton, were you involved in that? BW No, we weren't under Patton, we were under General Mark Clark. CB OK BW And he was the one that was over us during the time that we were in Italy and part of France. CB Oh, OK BW And later General Prescott. CL Since your husband is interested in Military History there is a book I'm sure it's in the library called 'The Battle of the Atlantic ", it was written by a retired Navy Captain, I think there's about 12 volumes in his whole set, but one of them is called 'The Battle of the Atlantic." A lot of people didn't know there was a battle of the Atlantic or to what extent it was. CB Well Romey was there did you have a problem sending or receiving your mail or was there any censorship in your mail RS Well, I guess there was some censorship, but we never did put on our letters exactly where we were. Just some where in Italy, for example. CB They did photograph them didn't they? RS I have some of the letters I received when I was overseas, and they were something to look forward to. While we were actually engaged with the enemy we weren't able to get the mail but when we had a lull or in a rest area we got our mail without any problem. CB Well I don't imagine you were able to save the letters you got from your wife. RS No, I maybe have one or two, but not many CB Well, back in the states. RS I had no way of really taking care of them. CB That too yes. RS And so it was a real treat for all, everybody over there when mail time came. CB Oh yes, my husband was in Vietnam and that was one of the things that he really looked forward too. And my son when he was in boot camp, that was, mail is just very important to a man in the service. RS We landed in Africa, March of 1943, landed in Italy, on September 9, 1943. And then landed in France in August 1944. CB Let me ask you this. What are the things that you remember the most? Let me ask Buck a little bit. What are the things that you remember the most about World War II? BW Well, I remember besides being in the service eating K- rations and C- rations and the food the Army had Imagine, supplying the whole Army all of the world it was a big job. But huh, I remember the censorship, I was the censoring officer, what do you call it? You mentioned it? CB Oh, the censorship. BW Yea, I was the censorship officer at the time for our battery. And then huh, it's like he said, we'd just take the mail and read the man's letter. Anything improper. The huh, the rationing, the C- stamps for gasoline and the T- stamps were for trucks, the levels of classifications where I think a regular person using a car for a job, I think you got about five gallons a week and then you'd go into a restaurant they'd have signs about the sugar about the rationing sugar stir like hell we don't mind the noise. The signs on the walls always reminded us that everything was rationed. And meat was rationed. And people didn't object, no one complained about it. The whole nation was at war and everybody had to play their part in it. CB And everybody banded together you know. I vaguely remember and I have to admit to you I was born in 1940, Ok, but I do remember my mother saving bacon grease and huh we would somehow for some reason, I should say we had it in the back of the wagon, we were taking it someplace to make soap. So that's one of my memories of the war. BW Another thing I remember McClendon, was of the former student association and he was writing for an address. He kept up everybody, kept up with everybody. I found my classmates all over the world really and I got letters from them and we wrote one another. And when I came home from overseas. I found in high school in California places like that because I could always find the student in the student offices where these guys were stationed and huh he had moved from Dallas keep the records straight and before the student office I was writing him I didn't even know where he was stationed. 8 CB Well great, Did you all find that, well, let me ask you this, What do you remember most about the war? CL Most vivid memories is a convoy escort in the Atlantic Ocean. They would have as many as 100 or 140 ships in a block, rows and coh'mns plotting along, that's a beautiful site from the air. One cruiser was out front, 2 destroyers on the flanks and the airplane ranges out 50 miles ahead, 25 miles on the side and about 10 miles on the rear. That way if sub was on the surface we can chase it out under and also advice the commander of the ship where he was. So it got to the place where the better probability of a sub being sunk than it was that he would sink anything. And that's what beat them the convoy escort system, surface ship and air escort all the way from the East coast to Europe. CB Well good. BW In other words had to because of fuel than other planes would pick up. CL The plane would pick you up. CB Oh, you mean you put the tires on the top of the car. Oh, Ok, you said you put them on a roof; I was thinking of a house. Well I guess that's one thing that the families did was sort of keep you in the dark as to what was going on here in the States. RS I think that's one thing that they didn't want to worry us with. CB Well probably so. RS People at home were going through lots of hardships. We didn't appreciate how much until we got back. Our unit went overseas in ships. I think the thing I remember about that more than anything else was the complete blackout we had at night. CB Oh, while you were on the ship. RS The ship yeah. We followed a zig -zig course all the way across.It was an impressive sight to see the bright lights of the neutral countries as we passed through the Strait of Gibraltar, especially after the black -out conditions we had experienced for several nights. CB Yes, it would impress me, too. RS Another thing was when we invaded Italy. It was winter and it seemed like Italy was set on edge with the high mountains. The hardships we had due to the extremely cold weather and the rough terrain stand out in my mind. 9 CB And how many were there on the crew? CL We had about 12 people on the crew. CB Well yea, yea 12 people, so one out of 12. CL One out of 12 we were very fortunate. CB Yes, you were. CL I was told that surface ships sunk that submarine the next day. I wasn't around when that happened. Back to censorship, I was the censoring officer for a while in our squadron. And you might think it would be interesting to read other peoples personal mail. But I found it the most boring job I have ever had in my life. CL Yes. But I told my crew members that I will not censor your mail. I would set it aside and let somebody else read it because I didn't want them to think that I was reading their mail to their wives and sweethearts. CB Did you find it hard to say things to your families? RS Yes, you can only say "I Love You" so many times. CB Well true. CL You can talk about the food, the weather a little bit, but you can't talk about what your doing or... where you are? CB Yes, that would be 10 CL You said what vivid memory, this is a vivid memory I'll never forget. One dark night somewhere in the Caribbean out off of Venezuela we spotted a blip on the radar and as we approached a German submarine opened fire with it's anti - aircraft guns and I peeked over the side and you could see those tracers coming up and all of a sudden they started hitting and they sounded like hail on a tin roof. One hit in the wing and tore a great big hole and one hit under neath the air plane and tore a big hole, but they didn't hit anything vital so they didn't bring us down. One sailor got a scalp wound right across the forehead, a piece of shrapnel, and he stood there by the cockpit with blood just dripping all over him. And I told somebody go see how many people are hurt and he was the only one. A piece of shrapnel stopped in the seat I was sitting on about an inch from me. CL You were allowed to write a letter at least once a week. CB Just to let her know you're still here. CL Yea right. RS I reread some of the letters I sent and I don't know how many times I said I love you or darling, or... CL I saw "We have never been licked" a couple of times and at least in the first part where it was depicting traditions of A &M, it was, pretty true to life I thought. Toward the end, where the war was actually shown, I thought it was interesting that the hero was a naval aviator instead of an army or an air force person, since A &M was a military school. CB Yes, you know I never thought of that, but that's true. CL The reason I became a naval aviator, I didn't take advanced military at A &M, so I didn't have a commission, and I decided in 1941 that we was gonna get in the war, and I wanted to do something the highest duty that I was capable of performing, and that turned out to be naval aviation. I had the education, I had the health, and what it took. And I've always been proud that I did that. CB Well yes, you should. I think any, of course I'm speaking from a prejudiced point of view, since my husband is retired military, but, ugh, I think anybody who had the, they should take advantage of serving their country even if it's just for 4 years. I think the service has a lot to offer to a young man, in growing up, and giving them discipline and so forth. Explain what is was like as a returning veteran after World War 11, to our area, ugh, you were the only one weren't you Mr. Romey, that came back here? RS The only one? CB No, no. Of the interviewees, here, you were the only one who came straight back here to A &M. RS After the war, I guess I was. CB Yeah. What was it like regarding um, let me just throw these topics at, pick out whichever one you want: adjustments to the community, housing, where were there places to live, ugh, continuing college, or fitting in with the non - veteran corps, ugh, of course you'd already graduated, ugh, finding a job, the cost of living, marriage and having children, and medical facilities that were available. 11 RS I think the thing that stands out more than anything to me was the housing situation. We had a very difficult time finding a place to live. We stayed at the Aggieland Inn, which was located on the A &M campus for a while and later with friends until we were able to get an apartment in Bryan- -the Edge Apartments. CL On Edge Street? RS They're a lot different now than what they were then. We almost had to beg to get an apartment, but anyway we did get one and lived there until we moved out to College Station in 1948. We have lived in several places in College Station. But the housing shortage stood out more than anything else. CB Was it because there just weren't enough houses or that people wouldn't open their homes to take boarders, or to rent them as apartments? RS Well, there weren't any. Very few apartments, you wouldn't believe that now, but there were hardly any apartments. CB Well, the society then wasn't geared for apartment living as it is now. RS The enrollment at the university at that time was what, about 4,000...5,000 students? They were all corps, all male students. CB OK. RS It didn't take off until several years after we came here. But of course we know what it is now. CB Yes. RS But I started adjusting to it. I did have a real hard time adjusting back to a normal civilian life. And I guess that might have been difficult for anyone really. But I'm glad I came here. CB Did you come as a, how do I, did you come back to College Station ugh, to continue your education or... RS Well I was actually on the staff of the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. CB Oh, OK. So you came back for a job then. RS Yes, I did. CB Forgot about that part. 12 RS Well, I was able to take one course each semester while on my job. CB Oh. RS So I received my master's degree a few years later. CL Yes. RS I was full -time research for the first 15 years I was here. Later, I devoted 75% of the time to research and 25% to teaching. CB Oh, OK CL In 1941 I went to work for the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station and the United States Department of Agriculture. And that job was still open when the war was over. So I came back to it. I finished the war in Corpus Christi, Texas, and as soon as it was over, we moved back to Bryan. Stayed with my wife's sister and her husband for just a little while. And the rented a garage apartment over on Ennis street, not far from your apartments. CL By the way it's still there and I think people are living in it. CB Is that right? CL After the war, I didn't have any civilian clothes, I didn't have anything to wear but uniforms. And you couldn't buy very good clothes in the store. So I bought a couple of old suits and one of them I think was the tackiest thing I've ever owned in my life. But I remember going to an Aggie football game, dressed in civilian clothes and I felt like an idiot! Everybody was looking at me, I'm not dressed right. But nobody was paying me any mind at all. CB Because you were out of uniform? CL Yes. CB Or you weren't in your uniform? CL Well, I went; I wore a uniform for four years at A &M and four more years in the navy. I didn't know anything but uniforms. CB Well true, I'm sure you didn't. 13 CL And the first week I went to work in the Experiment Station; I sat there and looked, `What am I doing here? I don't belong here, I'm a naval aviator!" But I got over it pretty fast. CB Oh, did ya? CL Yes. CB So ugh, let's see. Is there anything that you would like to add to this discussion? I think I've covered most of their questions. RS I'd just like to mention that I have some photographs here ofA &M back in the 30's. CB Oh, how wonderful. RS As well as some photographs from World War II that might be of interest. Maybe later you would like to look at them and see if you'd be interested in them. CB Oh, I'd love to. I don't know about anybody else, but I'd love to. I think history is an important part you know that we should always go back and review. And I was mentioning earlier I love talking to the older people because you have so much to learn from them. Even though I lived through World War II myself, I don't remember it. CL You were just too young. CB I was just a little girl. I was only 18 months old when the war started. So I don't remember a lot of it. Now my husband did, because his dad was a barber, and my husband's three years older than I am. So he remembers quite a bit about World War H. CL I have a 30 minute video of the war in the Atlantic. It's pretty good, but it disappointed me in some ways. But I do remember that they said that the Allied Forces in WWII sank eight hundred and sixty -some German submarines Now, that's a lot of submarines CB Boy, I'll say it is. CL A lot of men went down, but as he said they sank tons and tons and tons of our Wiping. CB Fortunately, it was supplies, although I know you guys needed the supplies. Um, you know those things can be replaced. The men cannot. 14 CL He was talking about going across on the troop transport. CB Uh huh. CL We didn't offer the troop ships any escort. They - those big of ocean liners can go too fast for submarines to catch up with. They can just outrun `em. And the only way a sub can get one would be to be just lucky enough to be right on its track. And as he said they zig- zagged. CB Yeah CL We never did lose one. They never sank an ocean liner full of troops. CB Well that's great. RS This is a picture of the final review in 1937. CB Oh my. RS And I have a picture of a Mother's day ceremony and a picture of the campus in 1934. CL I was probably in the thing CB 1934? CL `37 he said. RS `34 here. CL Oh thirty.... CB 1934. CL I started the next year. RS Here's a picture of the old railroad station that I wanted to show you. CL Yes. CB How neat. RS Here's the mother's day ceremony. Quite a contrast of the way it is today. CB I can just see by looking at the uniforms. 15 RS Yeah, (laughter) Here's the campus in 1935. And, by the way, in the archives they have a lot of good pictures. CB Oh do they? RS Yes, campus pictures. Well let me find this one. I don't want to take a lot of time here, but ... here's a composite. CL Yes. CB Well let me ask you this, uh, I know that you, uh, I guess this is more for Romey because he was, uh, he had his feet on the ground, so to speak, during the war, but, uh, did you guys, you've got pictures there, but you all didn't have cameras and stuff like that, did you while you were, uh.... CL I didn't have a camera during the service. There were too many things you weren't supposed to take pictures of... CB Uh huh (grumble, grumble) Uh huh CL It was just easier not to have one, I guess. CB Yeah. RS No, but there were people who did take pictures. CL Some people did take pictures. CB Uh huh. RS I didn't take any. CB Well, I was gonna say, you know, if especially being in the infantry, you uh, you have to travel light, uh a camera ... CL Bonfire RS This is bonfire 1936. CB Oh my! (laughter) What a difference isn't it? ( continued chuckles) Quite a difference. 16 RS Yeah. CB Did you see this Charlie? CL Yes, I saw that one. RS Look at the bonfire (laughter) I like the little outhouse. (laughter) CB Aggies always put up the outhouse. Oh that is ... RS Quite a contrast, though, isn't it. (laugh) Oh definitely! (laugh) A little bit taller now. CB You'll have to come over and see this David. It's something (chuckles all around) CL When I came to A &M in 1935, the campus was pretty well torn up, and under construction. Can I look through this? RS Sure! CL ... with construction. And I think it's been that way ever since. (laughter) 17 CB (laugh) Yeah. Kind of like Atlanta (laughter) It's been under construction since the, uh, Civil War. (chuckles) Well, let me ask you this, did you ever hear any or see any of the newsreels, uh of course. I know you've seen `em now, uh, you know in looking back, but during the war did you ever see any of the news reels or hear anything about those? Did you know that was going on? RS I didn't CL I wasn't here to look at the picture shows. CB Yeah, ... okay, lets see they said during the WWII explain sending and receiving letters, which we did, censorship, which we did, telegrams, western union, sending and receiving, newspapers, newsreels at the movies, radio programs, umm, the fireside chats? Did you ever hear any of those? RS I never did. (laughter) 18 CB Were ... I'm sorry go ahead. CL I heard the Tokyo Rose on my airplane radio. CB Did you? CL Yes. CB As a regular feature? CL Well, when we were out in the Galapagos Islands, we could get Tokyo Rose. CB Yeah, what did you think of her? CL Well, her efforts to undermine the moral of troops seemed to me had no chance of success. You could see that she was a propagandist. CB Uh huh. RS All of those pictures were made in the 30's, by the way. CB Okay, what about, uh, lets see, telephone calls, were you ever able to call home? RS No, I wasn't ever able to call home. CL I never tried to call home. Uh, it was just sort of out of the question. CB Well, I guess if you called home, they'd know where you were, too. RS Yeah. CL Yes. CB Okay, uh, lets see here, uh, of course you weren't going to college during WWII so that wouldn't fit any of those ... Were there very many churches around here while you were going to school? CL Enough I suppose. RS I think that most of the churches were represented. CB Okay. RS A lot of them have moved now, but they were all mostly congregated around the campus. In the early 30s when I was here in school, the college campus was often considered to be the extent of the College Station community CB Yes I understand that. Yes. RS And I think this area, South Oakwood, was developed in the 30s. CB Uh, well, Pershing Dr. and back there, and where I live on Walton Dr. were developed for the uh, professors. RS Yes, that's right. Until about 1926 or 1927 most of the professors lived on campus. CB Uh huh. RS In the late 1920s the need for off - campus housing for faculty families led to the development of the College Park addition, the first residental area adjacent to the campus. Then in the early 30s the Oakwood addition next to College Park was created. CB It seems to me that they ... it was in ... up until the 30's that they were allowed to live on campus, because I had a good friend Helen Perry, who uh ... CB Dr. Thomas was on campus here and she lived on campus ... RS Even up until 1946 there were quite a few houses on the campus. CB Uh huh. 19 RS Some of the heads of the departments, the deans, and the president lived on campus. The original president's home, a beautiful place, burned. Where the MSC is now was a row of houses. CB Oh is that where they were? RS I think some of these pictures show some of these houses. CB Uh huh. RS I mentioned this morning that it was 1938 that the city of College Station was incorporated. CB Well, let me ask you this, being returning veterans in 1946, what were the things that impressed you the most when you got back to the states? Uh, did it have to do just with society or your family, uh, what was the thing that impressed you the most when you got back? RS What impressed me the most was the number of automobiles. (laughter) We saw that we got back to New York. This was very different as we had only seen Army trucks and jeeps for several months. CL And stuff like that. CB Uh huh. CL Oh, I don't know, I think I just sort of eased back into civilian life without too much trauma. CB Without even realizing it? CL Yeah, without, you see I got married during the war in 1944. So when I got out of the service, my wife and I were living in Corpus, so we moved back to Bryan. It was nice to be normal again, I guess you'd say. RS Well back at that time I think the peace and quiet and the small town and the surroundings was the thing that impressed me. We weren't under tremendous pressure. It was just a pleasant atmosphere in which to work. CB Just 180 degrees from what you had been. RS Yes. CB Ok, what about you Charles? 20 CB Ok, well, let me ask you this then, what was the thing that impressed you the most, having in most cases almost ten years since you had been in school, or at least eight years, graduating and coming back to the B /CS area, what was the thing that impressed you the most coming back home, so to speak? Coming back to college? CL I think the trolley between Bryan and College Station had been abandoned by the time I got back from the war. Used to be a trolley and busses that ran from Bryan to College Station on a regular basis. I think being close to A &M, going back to the football games and activities like that brought you back pretty fast, to reality. But I remember seeing a football game in Norfolk, VA between William and Mary and somebody. And we were getting beat all over the world at that time so football did not seem so important. CL I looked down at those kids runnin' around and I said how insignificant this is, what happens down there on that football field. I never have been quite as excited about sports again since, relatively speaking, how insignificant football was to the war. CB Yes, what was the thing that impressed you the most about the college when you got back? Was it the growth, was it still the same? What changes, I guess is what RS It was still an all male school when we came back in `46. CB Uh huh. RS And I think it was a lot like it was when I was here except I think they had done some things to control the hazing for example. CB Uh huh. RS They've continued to do that and don't have anything like the conditions that existed in the days when we were here. As far as I know, it is pretty much the same as it was, as far as the corps is concerned. CB Uh huh. RS But on the other hand, so many students that came back from the war didn't take military science. So we did have a difference there. A number came back that weren't in the corps. So the corps, I guess was not as predominant as it was back before the war. And certainly now since we have female students, it has certainly changed for the better, I think And these things progressively have increased so its really an outstanding unit. Academics are certainly stressed more and more in the corps. CB Uh huh. RS So the changes have really been favorable toward the corps. I just hope the corps lasts for always. CB Yes, I do too. CB Oh so you would say that the end of WWII really started the, what are the guys not in the corps called, the non -regs? RS Yes. The non -regs were those who did not take military science. CB That was the beginning of it. 21 RS We did have non -regs when I was in the corps from 1931 -1935. CB Oh really! CB OK CL Back up on that football, in the years since WWII my enthusiasm for the Aggies has gone back to par. (laughter) CB Well, I will say the Aggie football team is a roller coaster sometimes. Your feelings for them. But uh, this last year hasn't been such a good one, but we've had some really good years in the 80's. CL The teams, the years I was here were not very good. Record about like last year, but the following year, I stayed on for a Master's degree, and the football team of 1939 won the National Championship. 22 CB Oh huh, Yeah, I know when we first came here in 1974, Joe's boss, who was in the Air Force and had graduated in I think 1950 or `51 and his wife was telling me, she said, of course in the middle 70's the Aggies weren't doing too good in football, and you know we would be groaning and everything, and she said," Listen, I can remember when Bob ",that was her husband, "was in the corps" and she said," if they made a first down, we kissed," ( laughter) Not necessarily a score, if they just made a first down, they kissed. So the Aggies have not been you know .... But I don't ... Texans take their football very seriously, but I think the College has gone more for academics and more for the corps than it has for the football. RS I do too. I think that's a good sign, I think that's real good. And I know the corps has gone towards academics more. CB Hm hmm. CB So what did you do when you came back from the war? How did you make your living? You said you worked for the extension? RS No, I was with the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. CB Oh the experiment station, OK. CB What did you experiment? RS Well, my field was in agricultural engineering. I was dealing mainly with crop processing and quality control. CB Oh OK RS My research dealt with several different agricultural products, such as sorghum grains, rice, peanuts, grass, seeds, and forage crops. Research was usually conducted at experiment stations located in different areas of the state. CB So your base was really just right here and you just went to these other places? RS Right CB Ok and you Charles? CL My master's degree was in genetics. My job was in the genetics and breeding of cotton. And I worked in that until 1948 when it was decided I should go to the University of California and work on a Ph.D. and I did that. And then I came back and worked here until 1958, when they transferred me to Beltsville, Maryland, that's an agricultural search service, Plant industry station headquarters in Washington. We stayed up there 21 years. CB Were they delightful? CL It was alright. When they first told me I was going to Washington, I said, "oh no!, I don't want to go up there." The press paints a worse picture in Washington than it really is, when you get there. And I didn't live in Washington anyway, I lived on the outskirts in Silver Spring, Maryland. CB Oh yes, um hmm. Know where that is. Uh, and you were there what years now? CL To `79 CB `79. OK. We were there from `77 to `79. CL Were you? CB Uh huh. And we lived in uh ... ugh ... mind went blank. We lived on the Virginia side. CL Oh Yeah. CB But uh, it was ... CL Fairfax? CB Outside of Fairfax; we were inside the beltway, we were down toward Ft. Bellmore 23 CL Well we were just outside the beltway. CB Um hmm. CL Barely. CB But, its too many people for me. CL Too many cars again. CB Yes, too many cars. Amen for that. CB Well is there anything else that you guys would like to add; you know any impressions that you had during the war, or, um, anything? CL Well, I was impressed with the contrast between World War II and the Vietnam War, which was an unpopular war. World War II was a popular war. End of Tape 1 CL Everyone contributed something to it. People never made any fuss over it when we got home, but neither did they look down on ya like they did the Vietnam Vets. CB Right. They made you feel welcome when you came home. CL Yes. CB Yes. Yes, uh, my husband um, he wasn't looked down on, but then he was a special soldier, but uh, and uh, were were uh, when he came back we went to a military environment, and you know, at a base. I think that helped quite a bit. But you're right, it was a very unpopular war, and I feel sorry for the Vets ... CL Yes I do, too CB ... that have come back because they were not welcomed home as heroes. And or even uh, people weren't even proud that they had served their country. And, uh, that's a shame because they gave up a lot. They really gave up a lot. Any man that goes to war gives up a lot just ... Just leaving his home and, uh, ... CL This airplane right here is not well known among the people of the United States or aware of what it did during the war. It was most of the time went over the ocean somewhere, so it wasn't like they'd be flying over Bryan, Texas or anywhere else over land. It was actually at sea all the time. 24 CB Now what was that? CL Martin Mariner. PBM. CB Martin. PBM. My husband will probably know all this. When I first looked at it, it looked to me a little bit like what they called the Spruce Goose, the one that Howard Hughes had done. CL Well its not quite that big. CB Well, I know it's not that big, but the shape of it and so forth kind of reminded me of that. CL I see. Well, that's a front view of the thing ... a very distinctive wing. And it was a good airplane. CB Um hmm I do have a question, uh, for you guys. I would imagine you saw some of the war movies in the years since you have been back, pertaining to World War II. Uh, did Hollywood "hollywood - ize" them or, are some of them true to life or what? CB Your impressions? RS The one I remember is the General Patton movie. That probably was pretty true to life. CB Pretty true? CL I suppose Hollywood, ` hollywood - izes" nearly anything but, they seemed to capture the spirit of it pretty well. CB Yeah. Patton is my husband's favorite movie. I think I've seen it at least 8 times. He especially likes the fact, well, whenever he gets down he always watches that movie to boost his spirit. Because it was a phase when America really was a winner. RS There have been alot of people who have profited by the war in some respects. In other words, there have been men who have, and I'm not saying this because I don't think they deserve it, but there are a lot of men who have obtained positions now that would not have been obtained if they hadn't been in war. I guess the war brought out some of these leadership qualities in people. If there is anything good about war, that might be it. I think that may be a far out way of thinking But I just think that we have some outstanding men, who do really outstanding service, who are decorated people. 25 CB I agree with you and like I said with my husband being in military, I am biased, I really feel that I am. But, uh, some of my friends think I am very, very patriotic, but I think this is one thing, like you said that WWII did do is it really bound the people together, because we were all working for a common cause, and that was to win! RS Another thing, before the war, we were using wooden machine guns, wooden rifles, and to think of the complete turn around when we got into the War in `41. We had to completely mobilize the entire nation to build the tanks and rifles and machine guns. And to think of the tremendous job that was done in such a short time. CL It is amazing CL How we could mobilize industry and everything so completely. CB Yes. 26 RS It was just amazing, I still marvel at it, and that just shows how everybody was completely in agreement and worked together for the common cause. I just feel like there was not a single family, at that time, that wasn't touched in some way, or affected in some way by the war. CB Oh, yes. RS Every family I believe was touched. CB Yes. RS It just shows what we can do by working together, in the common effort, and how different that was with the Vietnam War. CB Yes, and you know that was, I don't want to say a neat thing, but in more recent times the Desert Storm. RS Yes. CB That was one thing that rallied our country together again. RS Yes, again that is right. CB It wasn't a unpopular war but, It really wasn't a popular one either. RS No. CB But, my husband, bemoaned the fact years before this, what would we do if we ever had to go to war again? It wouldn't be like WWII. CB And he carried on, and I said but I had faith in the American people that we could do that again. And I think there's historic proof of that. RS Yes, and I think that's right, and it was a short war, and that was a big one. CB Pretty much bloodless war on our side. RS That's right. CB Well, listen, let me record these pictures that you all have, on this, and I really appreciate it, I've enjoyed it and I've learned alot and enjoyed meeting you all. RS Same here. 27 CL After the war was over, I stayed in the active reserves. And I flew this airplane out of Ellington Air Force Base, Houston, that's not the crew, that's the whole squadron. CB Oh Yeah, hmm, which plane was that? CL It was an S2F Grumman made airplane, when I moved to Washington, I called the air station out there and said, "Do you need my services ? ", and they said," Well, what is your rank ? ", and I said, "Commander ", `Well we don't need you, we need some junior officers ", so I quit flying in 1978. Didn't see much use in fighting that Washington air traffic and storms over the Atlantic. CB I don't blame you. CL I had a wife and two children at home. CB And what did you have a son and a daughter? CL Two sons. CB Two sons, and what are they doing now? CL They are lawyers here in Bryan. CB Oh. RS One of them lives close to where I live. CL I've got four grandchildren. CB I became a grandparent for the very first time last month. I'm so excited about it. CB Martin. CL And ours was the Mariner. RS Do you want to take photographs of these? CB Well, ah RS Or do you want them at all? CB Well, I don't know, I'm sure they would be absolutely thrilled ... Gracie would probably like to take a copy of a couple of them I know that, because I know she is real interested in the railroad track, the railroad depot. CB Did we get a video of his picture stuff? CL Do you want to? CB Of course, I'll go home and my husband will say, "Oh yeah, I know all about that airplane ", you watch and see. RS I don't know how we are going to take these pictures, if I take them out of here ... I will leave them in there, and if Gracie would like them she can just probably make a xerox copy of them. CB Here I got it. CB It was just stuck inside. RS I don't know what else you would want? 28