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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 06i Memory Lanes Oral History- Military March 26, 1997 Moderator: Dennis Maloney Camcorder Operator: Foy Page Transcriptionist: Tina Rodriguez Interviewees: Fred Dollar Robert Logan Fred Nabors DM I guess the first question is, have you had any relatives in the Spanish - American War? We've discounted the Civil War. I know none is that far back, but Spanish- American War any relatives? No nothing from it, O.K. that was fast, and no photographs. Nothing from it. No. None. Nothing from relatives in the past. OK, how many members of your family were in World War I. Anytime between 14 and 18, 1914, 1918. This is fast, huh. all right, I guess I'll start now with Mr. • Logan. Mr. Logan where were you when you heard about the United States entering World War II? RL I was on a bus coming back to Camp Wallace Texas. I was on a bus and did not know about the attack until I reached Houston. Military policeman met me, and he asked, "Are you a soldier ?" And I said, "I'm Lieutenant Logan." "Go get on that bus. War is being declared, and the Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbor." That's when I knew about it. DM And how old were you at the time, sir. RL I was twenty -two. DM How did you feel' when that happened? Was it a surprise? Did you feel that the atmosphere was Such that... 0 2 RL Surprised, I felt like, the world had gone to Hell, to be frank about it, because during that weekend I had been to Waco. And my wife, my future wife, and I had planned our wedding for April 5, Easter Sunday, 1942. So it was, quite a shock to me, because of the event that we had planned. DM And, uh, Mr. Nabors, the same questions. Where were you and how old were you when you first heard about the beginning of World War H. FN I was twenty -one years old. I was a basketball player at Texas A &M, and we were working out for basketball, must have been Sunday, and I heard on the news that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. It was about 4 o' clock in the afternoon and I suppose I wasn't too shocked because I kind of suspected it anyhow. DM Do you feel that the atmosphere on campus was such that we were ready to go to • war? The Cadets... FN We weren't too shocked. I don't remember being too shocked by it. DM And, uh, Mr. Dollar, where were you and how old were you? What was your feelings? FD I was about 19 years old, a sophomore at Texas A &M, and I was going around the corner of Puryear Hall in route to Sbisa Dining Hall where I worked as a student. Somebody had a radio, and they said the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor. It was a shock in a way, but it wasn't one that was devastating since we knew so many things were happening; that anything could happen. I think that is why we expected that Japan might act in this manner. 0 9 DM And, uh, we already know that for Mr. Logan he was in the services. He just got off one bus on to another and he was off to war. What did you do next Mr. Dollar? FD I stayed in school, of course, until we were inducted; which was later on down the line. They took part of class to one Army post and one to another, inducted us, brought us back, let us finish the semester, and then sent us to Officers Candidate School where we were commissioned. DM And Mr. Neighbors, I guess you since you were on campus the same time. FN I graduated in May `42. June 2, I entered the service. I had not taken advanced military in school, so I was not an officer. I was inducted into the service at Camp Barkley, Texas. • DM As a private. FN Yes, and later went to Fort Belvoir Officer Candidate School. DM Oh, all right. We already know Mr. Nabors gave us copies of a newspaper and a write -up on his involvement in the war. And I need to ask both Mr. Logan and Mr. Dollar if you have any memorabilia or any kind of information that we may be able to copy and return to you. FD Can't think of any, but I'll look. RL No, sir. I don't have anything that I would be able to contribute in this manner. DM OK, now who in your family, both men and women joined immediately? Do you have any? We'll start with Mr. Logan. E F11 RL My brother -in -law, Chief Petty Officer D. G. Mays went into service. Well, he was already in the service. He was in the Navy. He was stationed at Pearl Harbor when the attack occurred and he was later decorated for his service during that particular time. MY brother George A. Logan was a first lieutenant on active duty at Camp Wallace, TX. He'd been called about six months before the war began. DM What branch of the service were you in Mr. Logan? RL I was in the US Army. DM You were in the US Army? RL My brother was Army. DM Uh -huh. RL Brother -in -law was Navy. And that was the extent of the members of our family. • DM Both from your family and, and Mr. Nabors, you, what branch of service were you in? Any family members joined immediately after... FN I was in the US Corps. of Engineers in the US Army. DM Uh -huh. FW And there were no other members of the family. It did happen that my high school graduating class had 6 or 8, uh, members who were killed in Pearl Harbor. They happened to be just the right age. RL If I may interject here. In my class of 1940, 20% of those officers who went to the Philippines, they lost their lives or were captured during the war. Class of 1940, my class. DM That was Mr. Logan. An' Mr. Dollar? • ` FD DM No other members of the family. No other, and, uh, what branch of the service were you in? FD In Army. DM The Army. Almost a mood point with A &M. OK, and now we already know that Mr. Logan was in the service and then, when, when you, Mr. Nabors, went into service, where did you train, and how long was the training, and where did you go after that? FN I trained at Plattsburg Barracks, New York, and October ,1943, we went on maneuvers. From the maneuvers we went to Ft. Belvoir as demonstration troops. From there we went to Ft. Dix, New Jersey, and had final inspection and boarded ships to go to the European theater of operation from Hampton Roads, Virginia. Camp Patrick Henry was the camp we left from We stopped off in North Africa and spent about two months in Oran, Algeria, North Africa. Then went to Morocco, where we boarded a ship for England. We trained an additional six months in England before D -Day. And then we went in to the European theater of operation in France. It was D -Day + 21 and then uh ... DM Wow! So you just went straight from the basketball court right into the, right into the major operation. FN That's right. DM That must have been. What did you feel like as a young man? Were you real enthusiastic about it? I mean you have to be a little afraid, I'm sure, but what was just, what did you think was the feeling of the, of the young men at the time? i 0 6 FN Just Duty, Honor, Country. DM Man. FN Training with A &M. DM Yeah. [laughter] i know how that feels. And Mr. Dollar, your training, and how long, and where did you go after that? FD They sent us to Officers Candidates School, at Ft. Lee, Virginia. I had been here in the 3rd Headquarters Battery/Field Artillery. When horse -drawn was changed to motorized after the first 2 years, many of us were very disillusioned. We did not want to get away from the horses, so I changed to Quartermaster, thinking I would get into the remount service. Fortunately, I didn't, because that was a very foolish thing on my part. I was very blessed to not be in remount service. After being • commissioned at Fort Lee, Virginia, I was assigned to a Quartermaster Base Depot and sent to Europe. We first went to England. Later we landed on the Utah portion of Normandy beach sometime after D -Day. It was a good while until our military forces broke through the German defenses. This is something most people don't realize. We landed on the beach about August 1. Now, you remember that June was the date of the invasion. One could still hear gun fire because we had not broken through St. Lowe France, which was a few miles inland. In the evening, we couuld hear, what was later reproted as a Germman reconnaisance airplane. Finally, Patton broke through St. Lowe. One reason I remember is that we sent most of our trucks to St. Lowe with supplies. They kept all but one truck and sent it back with a message that they were keeping everything else. 0 DM Uh, during W.W.II', we know that there was a lot of concern about safety and security, in fact, I remember in history class myself, taking military history, that, that the enemy was astonished at how much everyone knew and how loosely we were on information that they believed it was all disingenuous. And so, in a way, we helped ourselves by being so open about it, but there had to been concerns about censorship and editing of letters and mailing information back and forth. Mr. Logan, could you relate to us any experiences you may have had in terms of letters, and in forms of telegrams, newspapers, uh, radio programs and that sort of thing? RL I don't have a great deal of knowledge about that, I, very fortunately, was not overseas during actual combat. I did go into the Philippines at the end of the war • and helped clean up there. Then ended up in Japan. But, uh, as far as being a commanding officer in reviewing letters and things like that, as far as security and for military secrets and things, I didn't have that experience. I did serve here in the States, and people were mostly conscious or more concerned with their gas coupon and food rationing coupons. Because, as you say, things were rather loose and the information we had great radios at the time, and they kept us advised as to what happened. In fact, when these fellows were going into North France, we knew about it, because it was on the radio. They'd come out saying. So, I cannot give you anything further than that. DM Uh, hm, and uh, Mr. Nabors, could you relate any experience in terms of sending mail, radio programs, transportation? E 8 FN Yes, as a matter of fact, my wife kept all of my letters, she was, I was not married at the time, she was my fiancee and I was reading one of the letters, fairly recently, and I was a little bit surprised to read my own writing that after two weeks you could speak of operations in your letters. You had to censor anything less than two weeks old from combat, but after two weeks, you were allowed to tell about it in your letters. DM And you were self - censored, is that it? You were told what you could put in? FN I was the platoon commander. As such, I censored the letters that were written by all the members of my platoon and of course my own letters. DM And what about newspapers, were you able to get newspapers from the States over there or were they censored? 19 FN The Stars and Stripes was distributed regularly by the Army. DM No, much FN And occasionally, European newspapers, but not very often. DM No newsreels or movies? FN We had movies and newsreels, occasionally in rest areas. DM I see, and were they in any way censored, do you think, or, uh? FN No. DM Couldn't think, okay. And Mr. Dollar, your experiences in terms of censorship in letters, transportation, just..? FD I was a unit mail censor, and I still have my mail censor stamp that I used until the war ended. After VE Day there was no further need to censor the mail. E 9 DM Telegrams, oh you ' were the Censor. FD Yes. DM Okay. FD ... I had to read all the letters that the enlisted men wrote, stamp with my name and serial number and sign. Ou rule prohibited us from stating our locaion, commenting about the enemy, using profanity or being critical of any part of our Armed Forces. If a soldier violated these rules, it was my job to cut the offending words out of the l�tter, and if appropriate, to explain the problem to the soldier. DM Don't criticize the Army, or..? FD We could not be critical of the Army or individuals in our correspondence. DM I see. l ie FD In other words, it was the "clean war ", in so far as our letters were concerned! DM Uh, huh. FD My job as mail censor was to cut offensive stsements from a letter. Often I would call the man in was involved, and explain why this had to be done. When I was in Europe, I became acquainted with, some, some of the European civilians. They were amazed that we could criticize our President. This was in Belgium, and they had a king. No one could criticize the king in the newspaper of the radio. Once, we had a man of Chinese descent. He wrote a very critical letter regaurding a racial group, so I called him in and explained why his remarks needed to be deleted. That angered himi, He never wrote another letter the whole time I was censor. (Laughs) • 10 DM What about, uh, telephone calls? I suspect we didn't have AT & T long distance back then, so I don't think we'd have any information on that. What about in the States? FD V -mail. DM V -mail, okay, and What was V -mail? i FD V -mail was a photograph of a letter that was several times smaller than the original. This was for the purpose of reducing the weight and volume of a tremendous amount of correspondence. FN It was microfilm, sent by air, and printed in the US. About four by six inch print of the letter. First,you'd put it on an 8 1/2 X 11" V -mail form, and then it would be collected by postoffice and microfilmed. DM And reduced? FN ....after it arrived in the US and distributed. DM I see, and Mr. Nabors, was there censorship involved in there, as well. FN It was the same, V- mailforms were censored. DM Same, same thing. Two weeks later, you could write about the battle, you could write all you wanted about it. FN That was, that was what I'd learned from reading my own letter. Maybe I was wrong. I don't want to contradict anybody else. DM Well, you're in a unique position, where you can decide whether or not you're a liar, is that it? That's interesting. Uh, Mr. Logan, you have a lot more experience 0 ii • in terms of what it was like, around, around the States at the time, if I'm not mistaken. RL Yes. DM And, so. RL I was in the States, I, I served in North Carolina, and Florida, and Texas, and also in New York City.', DM Great. You can give us, maybe, some information, uh, uh, lets focus on A & M just now. We're gonna go to the other places. Could you tell, uh, are you, maybe you weren't at A & M at the time? No you weren't. RL No, I graduated... DM No! . RL .... in 1940, which was... DM You were already out... RL ... the year before the war began. DM ...by then, okay. RL I was commissioned a Second Lieutenant from the ROTC program. DM Okay, I have a few specific questions about A & M. So, let me go back to Mr. Nabors and Mr. Dollar, Mr. Nabors, uh, A & M's mission at the time was the war effort the centerpoint, uh, the Corps, the A & M newspaper, the college band, the orchestra, the Mothers Club. What was, uh, what was going on on campus when you were... FN Well,... 12 DM ... a student? FN ... things kinda we t to pot. DM Did they? In what way? FN After Pearl Harbor, we had an accelerated program. Every morning, everybody went out an' took alestinics before breakfast, and everything was rush, rush, rush. The College advanced the graduation date by about one month from where it had been previously, and it was the following year, the, I think they advanced it even further for the Class of 1943. I saw them in training at Fort Belvoir. They had graduated early. DM And, and Mr. Dollar, hurry up and wait if you were in the Army, right? FD Yes. I • DM Uh, huh. Mr. Dollar, uh, can you add anything to that in terms of any orientation regarding W.W.II going on like in Guion Hall? FD I had the advantage of or disadvantage of staying here a little longer. I am class of `44, and the army did not take us out until May of `43. One of the things the University did, which was rather significant, was to start three regular semesters to help accelerate our opportunity to graduate. DM Trimesters. FD After the war started. Yes. DM Uh, huh. FD And that enabled bus to get more hours and finish quicker. One of the things that was real interesting was the number of rumors constantly. The rumors covered 0 13 many things. Some, I remember, were that the Army would permit us to graduate prior to induction, 1 commission us all, or take us immediately. This kept things in quite an upheaval. One of the professors said he had a difficult time learning during the first world war''when he was in the school and that we would experience the same. he implied we were not learning much and he probably told the truth about it. during the time', I was here, the houses on campus were moved off campus. These houses were located where the Memorial Student Center is on the University Drive. many of these homes were moved by pulling them with teams of mule. Logs were placed under the houses as they were pulled to serve as a substitute for wheels. the houses were moved through the area now occupied by the president's home. I had so little money, that watching the houses move was my 0 entertainment a lot of the time. (laughter from all) I told somebody, once, that during my freshman year, here, nobody had any money, I said I went to two picture shows and bought two Cokes. They thought I was lying. I could have told them about students who didn't do that, because moost of us had very little money. we did not think we were poor, we just knew we did not have money. This seems like a joke now, but it was a real opinion at the time. DM What about local support groups for families and such, did you recall any of that, or what the churches were doing, Mr. Nabors? FN Well... DM In College Station, or Bryan. 0 14 FN I remember a church at Northgate and attended fairly regularly. Uh, as far as • support groups, I don't recall anyone specifically offering support. Uh, we had our own outfit, you might say that we were our support group. DM Yeah we weren't }n to the `70's idea that we need counseling for every little trauma in life at that point. It was part of the, that society wasn't. That it was a group effort. FN I'm reminded about what Fred Dollar said about being poor, I think I made two movies for a year, and one Coke, and two ice cream cones for a year, but I remember one time when I first came and I asked my dad to send me five dollars so I can buy a bicycle. By the time the mail got here with the five dollars, I decided I didn't want a bicycle because I would be repairing it all the time and other people • would be riding it, and at the end of the semester, I still had that five dollars in my billfold. FD I must go back and tell you one thing, I was here when they filmed that movie. DM No, I'm going to get to that, no not yet, not yet. Mr. Logan wanted to add something, I'd like to.. RL Of course, in the 30's, Fred mentioned about moving houses off the campus. That started, they use to be houses all back in here and over where the Drill Field and those places ere. And they were moving, began moving houses off in 1937, as I recall Fred, those houses the smaller ones, can be located over in Bryan, Texas, on this end of North Avenue. There is a number of those old houses, do you remember what they looked like; flatboard? Houses and the reason for it was, • 15 the legislature decided that it was cheaper to pay a housing allowance than to repair these houses that were getting twenty to twenty -five years old. I remember that very well. And so far as support groups, our family supported one another. That was the main support group, we moved around so much, you know, you just didn't have time to participate in a lot of this counseling thing you have today. We were very self sufficient, my family was. But there's one other thing, as you know, the counselors assign the students now. But, when I was a student, almos± every professor could be considered a counselor. Because you were always welcomed and they would always give you their complete attention. They were very helpful and I don't know of any exception. I don't know if it's that way today, Ihave a feeling it's not, but it was great then, because you could go in and talk to anybody, at anytime, about anything. That was really good support as we define support today. DM No more teachers in Socratic method, your teacher was your mentor, as wall as a father figure, a counselor, a genuinely caring person. Well, we're specialized now. RL You were genuinely acquainted with your professor and, "a Logan speaking" when I was here, about 75% of us students here worked. Doing some type of work lere and earning money out of the WPA, the student program. FN It was NYA. RL NYA, yes we mewed the grass, shoveled the coal, from the coal piles, we worked in the dining hall we cleaned the dormitories, and all the janitorial work was dome by students here, And I was shocked, when I read the items in the paper about to 16 how much they are charging per class for tuition or things of this sort these days. In our day, we had to get together $25 in cash, that was tuition, and then $5 in fees. Thirty dollar$ in cash in the beginning of each semester, and you had to lay that down when yo u registered, to the fiscal officer at that time. And believe it or not, it was a little difficult for us to raise that $30 during the school semester, too. DM Thinking about it, we wished we had those prices for my kids. RL You wouldn't like the pay that you would be getting, either 25 or 30 cents an hour. FD The students did all the janitorial work. I had a roommate that was a janitor, of course I worked at the dining hall. I would say "Charlie get up, and go to work." He said he got the seniority. He had worked up from the first floor of the • Academic Building to the fourth floor. He said, "They don't get very dirty there, and I shift it around a little bit." One morning, I shook Charlie, and said, `You had better get up, or you will be fired." He rolled over and said, "Well, I didn't want to tell you, but I have already been fired." He became a successful person. DM Well, while we're on with the school and tuition and that just as a point of interest and for my own sake. Mr. Nabors, were you given any kind of special treatment, being a basketball player, come on now, be honest. FN I have to confess that when I enrolled, I wasn't given any kind of special treatment. But, I had a little advice from one of my fellow basketball players. I was having some having some success in the game, you might guess. He said," If L 17 you go to tell the coach your not going to be able to come next semester, he'll get you a job. And sure enough, I did and he did. DM Was it a real job, r was it... FN It was a real job. It took me a while to find out what I was suppose to be doing. DM Okay, so this is not new, huh. FD I can tell you a little bit about the athletes and the things they did not get. They didn't get any extra food or anything special. I had to wait on some of the athletes. We brought food out to them as long as they would eat. They would ask if they needed extra pieces of bread or meat, and that meant that they were going to eat it. We were all friends, the waiter and those people who we waited on. They knew I would get into trouble if anything was left on the tables, so several • times I would see some of them stick a roll in their pocket to keep me from getting in trouble. The athletes recieved all they wanted to eat, but nothing special. DM And Mr. Logan, I would like to get some information from you in terms of what your family might of done while you were away. Working for the war effort, such as in the factory, shipyard, prison of war camps, what were they involved in for the war effort? FN My mother and father who lived in Georgetown, moved up to Killeen, Texas, where they, my mother worked with post exchange for fifteen, twenty years, and my father worked for the banks there in Temple, and they lived in Killeen. My brother, as I hav� already mentioned, was in the Army, and serving in Europe. n LJ 18 And my sisters, one worked with the special services organization, and the other one worked for th county there, and uh, their husbands were in the service. DM You know, while think about it, since you traveled so extensively in the States during the war, I think you might be able to give us a lot of insight in terms of rationings, blackox I its, shopping, and fashions. What society was doing in general for the war effort. I know we've discussed the sense of solidarity with the family and the commun4, the professors, and that sort of thing. But the nation, as a whole, since you have traveled so extensively, Mr. Logan, we'll start with you, will you give us a feel for that please, sir? RL Well, when we were stationed on Carolina coast, we observed blackout procedures there at the military post. We were only allowed to go home usually ® sometimes on a Wednesday evening, and then on Sunday. And other times, usually during the day time, at the end of the day, we had to be back on the post. So, I can't add a lot to that particular thing, but I do know that people were concerned about rationing, and how we saved up gas coupons to take a little trip somewhere. The people had gardens and so forth that is back at home. My mother and father and neighbors, and so forth, and they shared with each other. And somebody needed something somebody always had a little extra that they could have it. DM Were these victory gardens? RL Yea, there were victory gardens in the larger cities, where they would set aside some vacant land', or something. People could go there and have a spot say ten by 19 [7 ten, out in country down in Texas. Why there were gardens out in the fields that were planted, and operated primarily by the women and the older men of the area. And they made food available when ever people needed it. DM Can you tell us anything about the prices and credit and shipping and receiving, advertising? RL The prices, of course, were controlled by the government, they couldn't raise the prices, and so forth. And, uh, occasionally, there might be a change in price, but very, very seldom was there. And uh, you got so many coupons each month for gas, depending on what your occupation was, and where you were working and so on. And tires and all types of other things were rationed at that time. I think our greatest shortage occurred as I recalled in 1942,43, when food became short. I 0 know Fred over here, the food service man, we sure fed us lot of mutton in early...'42 and `43. DM 42 and 43 RL `43, but we were not use to having any. But, otherwise we all buckled down and did the best we could with what was available. DM And Mr. Nabors, could you add something to that in terms of prices, credit for things, shipping, and receiving, advertising? What the work force was like when women started to work, rationing, blackouts, gardens? FN I was in the service in `43 and didn't suffer any lack of food or anything like that. After we were overseas, there was a rule the post office required that your parents or friends had to have a letter of request before they could post something to you. U 20 P.O. Box number. We liked to have coffee, which was probably rationed, but I still got some coffee from my parents. It was real handy to trade for other things, because the Europeans were without coffee for a long time. DM And Mr. Dollar. FD Particularly in Euro e, coffee was very short, and it wasn't in abundance in the United States. On!the post, one could get everything needed, and a little more such as candy bars and other confections. One could not buy those things off the post a lot of times.. DM So, on the home fxont, it was a lot different from the military? FD Yes, on the home front, one could not buy a lot of things. Sugar was short, and people accepted this ffact. As Bob pointed out, everybody had gardens and were • productive, because that was the kind of economy enjoyed in the United States. My family had a farm and a country store, that had been built during the oil boom. Stocks of many things in the store were real low. As far as the farm went, things were plentiful. I recall that one of the big shortage were automobile tires as Bob also mentioned. That kept a lot of people from making trips, even though they had gasoline coupons. Almost everybody accepted this as an absolute necessity to win the war. It is amazing to me now, because I never ran into an exception to the fact that people willingly accepted any condition that would assist in the war effort. DM And Mr. Nabors, before you had gone off to war, the war was going on from `42, so you were a student then. Can you recall any changes in terms of how the local 21 businesses were afTected, or churches, or social organizations? Any changes from before the war was declared. FN No, I don't believe so. DM Rather, small community anyway. FN I think till I was in service, things were pretty normal. DM Stayed pretty much the way it was. We're talking about a small community anyway, aren't we? How many people would you say was in College Station? FN I lived in Denton at the time, and I hitchhiked back and forth. There wasn't much of interest in Bryan. You can ask anybody, they didn't date the girls in Bryan very much, occasionally, but very rarely. But we like to go to Denton, there was a place with two universities. Texas State University, they had a name for it, then it . was CIA. I believe it was a women's college in Denton. DM Industrial College of Texas FN And it was a popular place for Aggies to go. DM Well, the women were there. FN Yes. DM Well, I can see why. DM I'm going to go back to Mr. Logan, and I'm going to finish with Mr. Dollar, cause I know he brought this up before. Do you think you know anything about the movie, "We've never been Licked" in 1942? RL No, I've seen it a couple of times. DM And Mr. Nabors. 0 Eib 22 O FN I don't remember. You don't remember, well I know Mr. Dollar has something to say about it. FD Oh, yes, I remember the day that Walter Wanger, the producer came in on the train. Everybody came in by train. He was a big, red headed fellow, one of the things he said when he got out on the platform was, `we could have made this picture anywhere ' i the United States, but we wanted to come to Texas A & M. Oh, we liked that. It was joy to our ears. They brought in a crew of people, and one would think those people had never had any food. They ate heartily. Mr. Cliff Hotard, who was the director of Food Services, was very gracious toward them I recall one time one of them was going back to Hollywood, and he asked Mr. Hotard if he would let him take a pound of butter with him, which Mr. Hotard did. • Butter was in short supply in many locations during WWII. There was a lot of interest on the campus in the movie scenes. They would shoot them over and over. Some of the students got in on part of the scenes when the dance was filmed in Sbisa Dining Hall. One of my friends had a date and participated. He said they were required to remove their shoes so they would not make any noise during filming. Sbisa really served as the Student Center, in those days. During the Spring of each year, there was a dance in Sbisa each weekend. The whole room would be filled with dancing couples. The biggest and best orchestras would come for a few hundred dollars. Each orchestra would arrive in a big bus. The bus came to the front ldoor of Sbisa. I would be thereto open the door because it may was my job to wax the floor before the dance. I did that to save fifty cents, that's C7 23 what it cost to get in. We thought the picture show featuring Texas A &M was the greatest thing that ever happened. The filming provided great excitement. There was nothing else happening on or near campus. Everybody wanted to go on active military duty. If there were exceptions to that, I wasn't aware, because everybody was in the same mind, the same spirit. I told somebody once when I left here, I guess I could not do much, but I thought I could do everything. I believe almost everybody had that psychological concept. I really don't know where it came from, but I guess it was a good thing, looking back on it. Because we didn't think there was anything we couldn't do, and maybe we accomplished something that we wouldn't of done otherwise. RL I have one experience. 0 DM Mr. Logan speaking. RL Logan, yea, if I may, one of the outstanding events that occurred during my tour at A & M was in 1937 or `38, President Roosevelt came to our campus, and it was electioneering for his third term. And they brought him in on the train, and as you remember, the President was a crippled man, and so they set up a reviewing stand over on the Drill Field. And the Corps of Cadets was to present to put on a parade. Well, in those days, as Fred mentioned, they were horse drawn artillery, and there was a horse cavalry here. And as we all went passed the reviewing stand, of course, we did our best to salute the President. But the last unit in the parade was the cavalry unit, made up of about 60 cadets with their officers and so forth. And they 411 carried a pike, which had a little red flag on it. And this cavalry 0 24 unit was the last unit in the parade. The rest of us left the field, then the Cavalry Commander would;, say, "Left Wheel Hold." And the cavalry unit would turn and go back to the oth r side of the Drill Field, and, then, they would march up there and they got them nut straight across the reviewing stand on this side o f th e end. And then he woul give, "Left Front in to the Line Hold," you know. And they'd line up in a single Iine. And then he'd yell, " Charge," all these cadets with their pikes on big horses. I mean the captain out in front, with his saber down, everybody running at the reviewing stand, I mean at the President. And everybody in front jumps out there waving their hands and shouting. And uh, of course when the cavalry unit got up there, the troop commander got where the commander said," Left Wheel Hold," and they marched off the field. Well, they said that the old President just got a whale of a big kick out of that. Now, somebody may have pictures of that, I don't, but that was one of the most exciting incidents here that I remember. DM Mr. Nabors. FN I'm pretty sure that the movie was filmed in the Fall, because I was gone before it was filmed. FD Let me add something. Dollar speaking. Concerning president Roosevelt's visit here when he came in, he couldn't come in the dining halls, as I recall., so they prepared food for him. One of my friends in the A & M Bakery cooked him an orange chiffon pie, and that was one of the originals, if not the original, orange chiffon pie. E.F. ( ',Schmidt, who currently lived here in College Station prepared the • 25 pie. President Roo evelt liked that pie so well, he wanted some to take back to Washington with him, so the Physical Plant built a refrigerator on the train. Mr. Schmidt baked fifly of those pies and they went back with President Roosevelt to Washin on D.C. That's not the end of the story. That was before the dormitories, wher the Corps lives were built, and money was scarce. During the Depression, nothing was being built. A loan was needed to build dormitories. The story is, and this may not be totally true. Elliot Roosevelt, who was on the Board of Regents, went to his mother, and he went to Jesse Jones of Houston (he was a member of the Cabinet at the time) who provided a loan that was eventually paid for by a bond issue. The money they received to build the dormitories and dining center amounted to $40,000 for each one of those pies, so they were called "The I • $40,000 Pies ". You'll find that story that was related by the man that baked the pies, in the book, Mom's Aggies and Apple Pie I had the privilege of introducing the author of that book to Mr. E.H. Schmidt, the head baker, who provided the pies. It's quite an interesting tid bit in the history of Texas A &M. DM Mr. Nabors, did you have anything like that? FN No, I was not around at that time. I attended junior college at Arlington, before I moved to A & M. I moved to A & M in 1940. DM Mr. Logan, do you want to... RL He was a frog. DM He was a frog. I know about that. C7 26 RL But anyway, I wanted to mention, Fred mentioned the new dorm area over here in • Duncan Dining Hall. My senior year, I moved on to the campus from the Poultry Farm, where I'd worked and gone to school for three years, and I was a waiter in the new Duncan Hall, and I think Fred was there at that time. And I had the privilege of working in the southwest corner and feeding the athletes who lived in Dorm 12 over there. We gave them all the food they wanted, but they got the same fare as everybody else. FD I didn't come till the Fall of `40, they were used by then, I think they were opened in `39. RL Yea, that was our senior year. FN Yea, I was in Dorm 12. I • DM Mr. Nabors, since you have been in the military and overseas, can you tell us something about C- rations, mail call, and receiving, censor letters, boxes, receiving local papers, entertainment. What was it like to be in the service, and what sense did you get of wh i at was going on at home? FN What was going on at home? We had excellent correspondence between the people at home and less excellent from the soldiers coming back. But I do have a suitcase full of letters that I wrote back, that my wife saved. DM And were these censored by the military at all. FN I signed by name at the top and that censored it. DM Oh. FN As an officer. 27 ® DM What was it like for those of us that weren't officers, what was it like for them? FN Well, they didn't have any trouble. I was with the engineering outfit, and they were more mature than most outfits. And we never had the slightest problems with any infractions of rules, as far as I was concerned. DM A low superiority � v"h the engineering line, is that it? FN Ah. DM We heard about you guys. FN Engineers in the enlisted ranks were generally from construction to like carpenters to concrete pourers and... DM ...Builders FN ...Electricians, you know they had, I guess you'd call it an occupational specialty, • and for that reason they became older, they were older recruits, draftees than the other ranks usually had. So, we had an exceptionally good bunch of people from that stand point. But as far as people in the US, I believe that 99% of soldiers were well supported by correspondence of people at home. I remember one time in 1944, the post office department had been very cooperative in mailing Christmas packages. I had ai fiuit cake in my jeep, and a few other presents, but during the Battle of the Bulge, I lost my jeep, and my jeep driver. But there were a lot of presents that didn't get utilized, but they were sent. They were sent from the people in America. DM So there was no problem in terms of shipping things to the States, back and forth. FN It was a problem, but they went through the trouble to do it. 28 • DM I see. And Mr. Logan, could you add anything to that? RL No, sir, I couldn't. DM Mr. Dollar? FD I think you asked about the ration. DM Yes, C- ration.. FD A ration is the food for one person for one day. We had a variety of rations. FN 10 and 1? FD 10 and 1, yes, and then we had the K- rations, which were for use just for short periods. These could be carried in your pocket. One could not eat K- rations over a long period because they wouldn't give you a balanced diet. But they were good for temporary usage, and then we had one thing, we call a D -bar. It was a candy • bar of solid hard chocolate, it wouldn't melt unless you applied a lot of heat. It was about 4 inches long, and a couple of inches wide, and about an inch thick. It was for emergency use for high energy. When the requirement for supplies was calculated for the European Theater, General Marshall said," Double It!" Now, that doesn't sound very wise from an economic view point but that mountain of supplies covered up many mistakes that were made during transportation and combat. I was on Normandy Beach when rations were being unloaded. They would take them out of the hole in the ship with a big boom, and try to drop them in amphibious ducts for transportation to the beach. We had food rations floating all over the water but we lost very little. FN Cargo net. 40 29 • DM Mr. Nabors. FN They didn't take it out of the cargo net until they got to shore. FD But and we would',take those amphibious ducts roll them up to the beach. Then, we had the Red B ll Express which was apparently named after the Red Ball Truck Line here * the United States. These trucks would haul supplies 24 hours ady as far foward as practical. This went on for months until we crossed Europe. We even brought in a few refrigeratedvans to hold hams for issue. We tried to supply the American Army with everything needed for both health and morale, including a variety of food, candy, gum, cigarettes and grooming supplies. DM Mr. Nabors did you want to add something to that sir. FN Yea, I wanted a couple of things, chewing gum was popular with the kids in the • United Kingdom and any time you'd meet a kid on the street he'd say "Any gun, chum." That was a very common greeting. The chocolate bar was developed by a competitive process they took 6 candy companies and asked them each to make a competitive chocolate bar and they chose the one that was the least palatable. But they sure were good for trading, you could trade them for eggs or anything in Europe. FD He reminded me of a comic strip during the war. This French woman and her mother were on a passenger train with this soldier and this young woman said, "Don't smile at hen he'll offer you some chewing gun." i i DM Mr. Logan. RL Yes. 0 30 DM Could you explain any of the following that you and your family were involved in Ar during W.W.H. Jul t pick out whatever you'd like battle engaged, in medals received, famous g nerals you encountered, military service in other ways. Any relatives or your own experiences. RL Well, like I mentioned before my brother -in -law, Chief Petty Officer Mays was in the Navy and, he as in service at Pearl Harbor during the attack and he was decorated for his actions there. And he continued service and retired after 25 years in the Navy and my brother served in England and Europe and so forth and huh as far as he was primarily involved with taking care of the citizens of the country in which in which he was stationed, in other words, military government. As far as I was co cerned I was here in the States and teaching and training troops . so I had no real experience along those lines. DM Any of your students turn out to be people of any kind of stature in the theater? RL Not that I can relate to. There were 6 of my comrades here at A &M, my senior class that won the! medal of honor though. DM Is that right, who were they? RL Huh? DM Who were they? RL Well there was a fellow named Whitley, Whitely, who else was that, I can't recall them off hand, but they were... DM 6 out of your clads, that's amazing. RL Yes, sir. 0 31 FD I believe their photographs are at the MSC. DM I remember seeing them and Mr. Nabors the same question, battles engaged in medals received, famous generals, military service in any other way. FN Your talking about me personally? DM Yourself and family members. FN Well I was in 5 campaigns, in Europe, I think the 2 highest ones were the Batt le of the Bulge in which the 51 st Engineers Battalion, which I was a member, of held the line and did a phenomenal job. It was relieve by 5 divisions and we got quite a few medals for that and we got the presidential unit citation. And then another high point was crossing the Rhine. The bridge was captured at Remarkgin, and it was necessary to build floating bridges immediately to support the troops that l were across the river. My battalion built a 25 ton floating bridge. It was very instrumental to the success of the operation. FN Mine and one other that built floating bridges immediately after the capture of the Remarkgin Bridge. The story I've got in the Eagle tells a little bit about that, And in the other article I wrote a narrative about my experience in the Battle of the Bulge. I felt obligated to do that because some other writers were taking a lot of credit of that. I did my part to have it on file in Army history. DM Any famous generals while you were over there crossing your bridges? Any famous generals crossing your bridges. Did you meet any? FN Not really I did rein across Colonel Smith who was later Brigadier General. He was assistant dvision commander of the 82nd Airborne Division. I remember one 40 32 occasion when my platoon, was using bull-dozer to push the snow off the road and this Colonel Smith came along and said "I want you to take that bull-dozer and go down there and pu�h the snow on a different road." I got orders to work this road and not that one. Oe said `You got different orders" FN So I had to take his orders Dm OK FN Really quite a well known, he was a colonel at the time but he later became a Brigadier General Assistant Division Commander of the 82nd Airborne. DM And what about family members that might have been involved in World War H, Military Service in any other way that they might of done. FN Well my family members were supportive in that they were all involved in the war effort. One was in the civil service and one was working for a Navy yard and the other one was a teacher instructing Air Force at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. That was my three brothers. They were all involved less directly than I was. I might say, my father was extremely pleased that I took the opportunity to go into the service. I could have avoided the draft because my profession was Petroleum Engineer, which was in very great demand. It wouldn't have been a problem at all for to have obtained deferment for occupations. DM That's interesting why did you decide to go your sense of patriotism, adventure or just bravado what was it? FN It's just that I didn't want to live with myself unless I did go. i DM So a sense of du I 33 FN Well a little more complicated than that. When I was senior at A &M. The draft board called and I had to go and be interviewed for the draft board and the chairmen of the draft board asked me, "If I let you stay in school until you graduate will you then join the service." So by promise I was obligated to go in. Dm So when a man gave his word it still meant something is that right. Before the lawyers took over. FN I thought so. DM Yeah, I agree with you, that's admirable. FD "Mr. Logan back." DM Mr. Logan. RL Back when we took our oath as United Stated Army Lieutenant over here that bound us to do service and that was our oath and that was what we did without question. No doubt in our minds that that was what we were supposed to do and when we got the call, he reminded us, and there in the actual war, I was grateful that I was able to serve my country. DM I tell you times have changed. When the war was over did you stay in the service Mr. Logan. RL I did I stayed in the service for 22 years and retired as a reservist. And huh Dm What changes do you think were going on what changes did you experience. You didn't really leave the service. RL Changes in personnel, there was a number of veterans that stayed on. Different commanders rose, from the ranks and came in and took over. There was a change 0 34 in the discipline of the soldiers that were in the service. Change in uniforms huh, personnel changes, I spent quite a lot of my time in personnel service, personnel work. They huh, the personnel management programs were enlarged to keep the good soldiers in the service. So that was primarily the work that I did and after my service I was invited here by General Rudder to work at the university. And I came here and served 19 more years as a student financial aid officer here at the university. Then retired. DM I knew I recognized you. RL Your one of my many many good customers. $20.00 for 30 days, for 25 cents. Dm Yea it helped. Huh and Mr. Nabors when you came out of the service, I assume that you had left then. What was it like going back to civilian life, the changes, the attitude toward people, finding a job, marriage and all that. FN Well there was shortages, gas rationing and huh I guess I separated from the service in October 1945. There was still rationing. And yet it was not a real inconvenience, I never had any problems I guess, what so ever. I immediately started looking for a job. Took me about 3 -4 weeks to get a job. I was beginning to get worried but it was just a circumstance all the companies were expecting a big return of veterans, that they didn't want to hire somebody that might later replace with a veteran coming back from the service. DM What about your housing, did you have difficulty finding housing and just things that you needed to get on with life. 35 FN Yes housing was extremely difficult. First job I got, they wanted me to go to work VMW in West Texas in an oil field. And my employer L.F. Peterson was division engineer for Stanalind Oil & Gas. he said "I can't send you to West Texas because you are married and you won't be able to find housing out there, so I'll find you another place at least temporarily. They sent me to Nocona, TX, and I was able to get a one room apartment on the second floor. And we stayed in, that for a while. And it was real tight for housing at least for 3 or 4 years. Dm How about the cost of living after the war, Mr. Logan. RL It remained about the same. We had price control, you know. Periodically, they would release some options for that but, we were all again in the same boat, I mean looking for housing and a number of the people came back here to go to 19 school and so forth. Many of veterans did, so it was quite a difficult time. And the placement of personal after the war as far as I can remember, the restraints continued for a while and another thing was the families that had been living away from their home towns, they went back, and they were taken in by their mothers and fathers and somebody like that. And huh, they lived together until they could find a place. That was the way it was handle at that time. DM Do you have anything else RL No sir Dm It's interesting you know your perspective is such that you didn't know the hardship and I find this a lot from people that experience the depression and W.W.H. This was normal life. The whole idea that you didn't go out and do all • 36 the things that were, accustomed to doing is normal life. People say "my gosh you weren't able to getup and travel around your weren't able to buy a coke whenever you wanted. But how could you possibly live, but that was normal, wasn't it? That was normal life. FN I said a good many times that if we had a depression today, there would be some of the most surprisied people in the world because they couldn'tbelieve how bad it was. As an example, Tarrant County school system was only able to keep the school open for 6 months instead of the usual 9 because they didn't have enough tax money. That was the situation there, it's worsein other counties. I read a book by fella out of Snook; Bob Skrivanek. FN Skrivanek, he had it a lot worse in Snook than I had in Stephenville, Texas. It was . worse in Snook than it was in Stephenville, but it was bad enough. DM That's interesting. Do you tell your children the stories about what it was like. RL "Logan speaking. I tell them how we made our gardens and even in the 30's when the depression was on. My father lost his hearing, he wasn't able to perform his work as a fiscal officer and so forth. Mother worked in the stores and we all had jobs as soon as we got old enough. We planted a garden, we planted trees, neighbors around us did the same and we shared everything. So, and during the 30's and up until the 40's we were tempered somewhat as to what rationing and so forth meant. Sharing with each other in the neighborhood. I think that was a tempering part of our lives. You had to do certain things in order to have certain things we worked for them. I just wish that could be the same today. G 37 DM In fact, philosophically as a nation I think were starting to turn the corner on that, the whole idea that if you want something you really have to work for it. We can only hope. RL I've told so many stories that my kids have started numbering the stories. That's number 56. DM But you know, I don't know if you know him but Sidney Loveless, Colonel Loveless. RL Yes DM Interesting man, my children rode with him, his horses and riflery and everything and he was for awhile, I don't know if he's discontinued or not but his writing stories about his life. Little anecdotes and he's shared them with his grandchildren. • This is something that I wish that guys like yourself; my father's age and that would do. It's unfortunate your always someone's father your always an older person and people don't realize that the same fellow that was 20 years old had gone off to fighting the battles and handling things in the war and the depression you know there still inside these men and were losing all that. RL Well, I have. DM This is one way that we capture, by the way. RL I have 3 sons and a daughter. The sons all have children and occasionally even as late as a year ago one of them walked up to me and said 'Dad how did you and mother make it from your army pay and huh with us four children. I said `Nell primarily because ya'll were good children and you helped us, too, and your 40 38 mother was an excellent provider for us." So those type of things we try to pass Aw on to them. Some of our philosophy about hard work. and we told them about how we earned 25 cents an hour, of course, they said "oh no" you know DM Attitude is RL Greatly say that I'm very proud of the way they think. DM Well were very proud of you men. We appreciate all you've done. We really do appreciate you coming in an sharing. RL We're delighted. We look foward to seeing the video on this. DM We'll edit, we'll have those Hollywood guys come in like with the Star Wars movies and put the hair back on. We'll spruce you up some. RL You know, when we were cadets we used to have a military walk, a military • approach here. We'd start way over there where the foreign students live now, that would be our assembly point. Then we'd come across the golf coarse where it is and then,where the cattle pastures were, and this high ground up here was what we were going to capture and we did that every spring. And so finally I moved into 202 Timber over here. DM You took it RL So I took the house. DM That's funny. RL We'll never forget all the good times we had here and we had some rough times. I can't say enough as we've mention before the council and the concern our professors had for us, we're great. 0 to DM I don't know how we can ever get that back with the emphasis being on research 4W now rather than education. RL We thank you for your courtesy. DM Well, we appreciate it so much and it's very generous of you gentlemen to come and spend your time. City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Memory Lane: Mi lit Interview No. Name Malory Interview date 2 /19/97 Int erviewer Dennis Maloney Interview length Interview Place CS Conference Center Special sources of information Date tape received in office 2/19/97 # of tapes marked o Date { Original Photographs Yes No # ofphotos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed bY /j� Pages Y� Date - , ,(n ame) First audit check by a,­:, C c Z, -- pages Date Se (name) Sen to interviewee on a4 1�, 112 Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Pages Date C7 (name) Final copies: Typed by Pages emarks: Date Proofread by: 1) Pages Date Z; Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bindery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Memory Lane: Military Interview No. Name Fred Dollar Interview date 2/19/97 Interviewer Maloney Interview length Interview Place CS Conference Center Special sources of information Date tape received in office — 2 /1 V 97 # of tapes marked a Date Original Photographs Yes NO — # of photos Date Recd Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disp sal f rm Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by Page Date ,-� L f7 (name First audit check b ��- Pages r Date 3 ` 6 g ( nam� Sent to interviewee on Received from interviewee on Copy editing and second audit check by Pages Date (name) Final copies: Typed by Proofread by. 1) Pages Pages Zi Pages Date Date Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Indexed by: Sent to bintlery by Received from bindery Deposited in archives by. Date: Date Date Date Date City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Pro Oral History Stage Sheet Memory Lane: Milit Interview No. Name Robert Logan Interview date 2/19/97 Interviewer Dennis Maloney Interview length Interview Place CS Conference Center Special sources of information Date tape received in office 2 A 9/97 # of tapes marked a ? Date Original Photogmphs Yes No # of photos Date Recd T Describe Photos Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on Received Yes No Date Signed Restrictions - If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by _ S`i V,'/�� �`, Pages 'yl Date , 3 6 jZ ame)T — JJ First audit check by z Pages y Date !� v (name) Sent to interviewee on - 2� r X99 - Received from interviewee on A Copy editing and second audit check by ��it��f pages V Date (name) Final copies: Typed by 4�m t�) 1 tqq r &r ages ` Date Proofread by: 1) Pages ' Date 2 i Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Indexed by: Date Sent to bins lery by Date Received from bindery Date Deposited in archives by: Date emarks: