Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMilitary Panel Group 10• MILITARY ORAL HISTORY FEBRUARY 19, 1997 MODERATOR: KITTY WORLEY CAMCORDER OPERATOR: WILLIE INTERVIEWEES: MARGARET RUDDER VERDA BARRON TRANSCRIPTIONIST: RICHARD MOLINA CIA /0 • • • 1 VB I am Verda Barron, the widow of Joe Barron, I've been here in College Station since May, 1945, 52 years ago. I saw it grow from a very small place to a metropolis almost now. There +ere very few living quarters. I had a baby 7 months old I hate to tell, she's 52, rig t now. I'm from West Texas originally. I came here with my first husband, E. . Ames as a travel agent, he drove Greyhound for many years, because the bus agency , . open. He was on the city commission for 6 years and passed away in 1965. I m. ried Joe Barron in 1969 and had a very wonderful 25 1/2 years before he passed way n January 9,1995 with Lou Gehrig's disease. I'm still here. I'm working with Free H alth Clinic down town and other voluteer programs. KW That's a wo derful way to begin. Margaret do you want to tell us something about yourself be ore we go into the questions. MR Well I'm also I guess you'd call it a West Texas person and it took me long time to find out that the r. ch I grew up on was in the hill country. But it was, and , I married Earl Rudder in 19 : d 37. And I shouldn't say it, but I didn't know how to cook and when he got the coachi g job, he was a football coach when I married him, when he got the coaching job Tarleton he put me back in school to learn how to cook. Now you don't need to use that, that was just a thing thrown in. We had 5 children. And we came here in late J uary of 1958 to live on the A &M Campus. A &M was pretty small at the time . Less the 7,000 students, it'd been a little more than 7,000 in the fall but it always dropped off a little bit at the start of the second semester. It was all male and all military and there was very little in the way of air conditioning on campus, and everybody knows that at the stmt of fall semester, in particular, it was hot. KW And it rained every day. • • MR Yeah. Anywa we lived in what they call the old president's home 5 years and on the 26th of Janu 1963, it caught fire from a faulty chimney. And, we lost practically every thing we had, •ut we felt very fortunate that nobody was hurt. It happened right at noon. Do you reme ber that? KW Oh very well. MR MR They say the rst fire truck there was sort of undone by the fact that Law rO'\ the house had first been occupied by Sullivan Ross a very historic place. And the fireman was •o excited that he didn't turn the proper thing in his fire truck and water stream didn't each the blaze so a strong wind hit it and it was frame. As you know, Anyway the r:ason we felt so awfully lucky is the fact that they had painted it the fall before and it 1. *Iced better than it ever had since we'd been there. But the windows upstairs were : most all stuck tight, and if this had happened at night we'd have been in real trouble. ell then the A &M board bought a house at 115 Lee Street for us to live in totally furnished . Kitty I'm going to depend on you if I'm going into too much detail. KW Oh no that is fine 2 Anyway, it had belonged to Dean Brooks who was Dean of Arts and Sciences and he had passed away and his widow was elderly, and in bad health and was in the hospital. Her doctor told her that he wasn't going to release her until she decided to have either someone live with her or go live with somebody. So she just picked up her clothes, and her dishes, and silver and went to live with a sister. And left everything else. It was just a God send for Is. Because we had lost everything in the fire but there it was you know the pots and pans and all the necessary items were there. And it was so close to the Campus. Just a half • • KW MR I probably did VB My great grandfather fought in the War of 1812, but I don't know much about that. KW And what t World War 1. Do you have any special memories about World War 1 that you've h d from your family. KW I was too young. VB Well I just knew that my daddy didn't go because he was a farmer and he had a family. KW And so we wi move right in about entering World War 2. Margaret do you remember where you heard when we were entering World War 2. MR block off the campus . Also it was close for the children to go to school. Oh! we could just open the back door & they could walk across the street and be on the Consolidated campus. It was perfect. 3 Well I think we'll start now you've each given a very good introduction. We'll start with the military questions and we'll go rather quickly over the first one so we can get to the Campus. Because the first one asks what about our Spanish - American War. Did you have anyone in your family in the Spanish American War? Any... ut I don't know that I did. I remember where we were when my husband was already in, he had been called in the summer of 1941. He received his commission when he graduated from A &M in 1932. And he was coaching football at Tarleton at the time the war started or at least when they were getting • KW MR troops togethe KW mm hm mm 4 . And he was so anxious to go in. I couldn't believe it. We had our first child, he was z. year old. This was 1941. And, we were in the first home that we had owned. And he literally sold our house before he got his orders. That shook me up a little. But an .y then, he was called in the summer of `41. And I've forgotten whether that was what , ou asked me or not. Yes uh huh, it . s like when did you hear about it and uh huh? Oh well Pearl arbor you know that of course... We were already stationed at Fort Sam Houston in Sa Antonio and were having dinner at an Aggie classmate's home. There were the two •ouples that were Aggies there was Earl and me and the other couple, the Schunian , I d•n't know if anybody knew him or not but he was a classmate of Earl and then there we e two West Point couples. And when that came over the radio everyone • became quiet, they knew exactly what was going to be next move, that they'd be in it. KW It did didn't i . And like you say who joined in your family immediately, your husband VB I was single t en and a whole lot of us where in Hollis, Oklahoma. And we heard it, I suppose on t e radio and as you say we really got quiet. We went back to Wellington, that was my h.me, and we just sat around for hours at night discussing what was gonna happen, `caus- all the fellas were of age. It really put a depression on things. was ready to g;o was he? o you remember when you heard about it Verda? • • MR Oh. Absolutely and he always felt grateful that he had the ROTC training that A &M offered to you. KW uh, Which of course, how old were they, they asked the question well you weren't married MR The thing I re ember the most about was when I heard the about invasion starting. then Verda VB No, but Joe graduated in Class of '41in the morning in early June, and he reported in the afternoon to F i n Sam Houston for the service and he was immediately on the border for patrol duty do ' there. MR I can tell you - xactly where I was. KW Oh I bet you can. Why don't you tell us about that because that is a part of Earl Rudder's history that w''d like to have. 5 Well before h. left to go over seas he was stationed at Fort Dix, New Jersey. He was put in command oft he second Ranger of battalion, to actually train it and get it ready to go over seas. Before hat he'd been with the 2nd Division at Fort Sam Houston, then with the 83rd Div. up at Camp Atterbury; Indiana. General Freidendahl was assigned the job of going all over the States to observe Ranger training at the various divisions and they had given Earl the job of Ranger training in the 83rd division. So uh uh, uh, he liked General Freidendahl liked what he saw and told Earl he wanted him to have the Ranger 2nd Battalion. But anyway, I went up to New Jersey where he was stationed at Fort Dix, to see him before he left to go over seas. And while there, we were with a couple that were both native New Yorkers. And I was up there 10 days and this girl and I just became real • MR VB 6 good friends., he worked in New York City. I asked her wouldn't she like to come down and spend her 2 weeks vacation that summer with me. She said, "oh yea" so I had just picked her up in San Antonio, we'd spent a night or so out at Randolph Field where my college roommate and her husband were. And went on over to Austin, so I could show her where I went t ' school, and the capitol. We were there in the Stephen F. Austin Hotel and about 3 o'cloc in the morning we hear all the commotion. Extra , Extra, read all about it! The newspape hawkers down on the street, so I remember getting up and throwing something ove my night gown what ever I had on and going down and buying a paper. Well needless o say we didn't sleep any more that night and so the next morning which we had plane- • to leave Austin that day and go to Brady where the 2 children and I lived while Earl gone. Anyway we couldn't find a place to hear anything about the war, and we finally ended up in the back of Leon's Shoe Store listening to a radio. So we listened to it s uite a while and then went on to Brady. Listen to the r o, no TV yet. KW No TV, when= did your family go of course it was Joe Ames, wasn't it? Joe, no. E.E. was born, but And they had older es was my first husband. He was ready to go about the time that Peggy e drove the Greyhound bus, then and they declared that a necessary job. going away party already arranged for him, but he didn't go. But he was than most of them at that time so that was another reason that he did not go . But he • didn't go into the service he kept driving the greyhound all during the war years. • • KW All during the war, well and then of course it says here I think they've got lots of good questions about the World War II like sending and receiving letters. They asked you about that? Do you want to start on that Margaret? MR Well you menion the letters, I guess it must have been in 1991, an exhibit was put together. It was called" W.W.II Personal Accounts from Pearl Harbor to V.J. Day," and they contacte me for letters that Earl had written me at particular times during the war. So I sent `em .. d they kept 2 of the letters and we went down for the opening of the exhibit at the .B.J. Librarythen the exhibit made the rounds of all the presidential libraries in th country everyone of them. And every time they open at a new library (they'd stay 7 ut 4 months at each place), I'd get invited to go to the opening of it but I'd never did o except to the one in Austin. But it's quite a nice thing. And there were periods of tim , the longest one was about 6 weeks that I didn't get a letter at all. Earl was good about ' ting and his letters were good but you wouldn't know from reading his letters that he . in a war. And, he didn't talk about the war after he got home. The things I know about it I have learned from the people that were in it with him. And so many of them would come to see us there when we still lived in Brady, and even when we moved to Aus in and subsequently over here. But that's about the only time he ever talked about it. I knew the first time that he had a chance to go back. Colliers Map'ine, (see Shawn On the cover of Colliers in 1954, this is Earl and this is our oldest son who was 14 at the time). And when they called to ask him to go and to take our son to France to do a story for the 10th anniversity of D -Day in 1954 he wasn't sure that he could stand to go back. Becaus what they had been through, he lost so many of his Ranger Battalian on D- Day. • • • General Omar Bradley described the mission as the most difficult assignment he had ever given a soldier in his entire command. And the success of the D Day invasion depended on this little group of 225 specially picked men to go up those 100 foot cliffs knock out the six big Ge an guns that were positioned to fire on Omaha and Utah Beaches and on the ships in th channel, they had to get rid of those guns,so the troopers could land and that was their : signment. Well if I had known that, I'd of been going nutty. But, everything kin • of went wrong as things do. It was a bad day and the waves were real high. The t g had to be exact and they were to have hit the beach I think it was 6:30 AM. instead o that I think they were 38 minutes late because when they came across the channel in there larger ships and they were loaded into their landing craft, and I think there were . • • t 10 of them they had that was in his little group that was to go in and the rest of the ba : ion at a certain particular time were to come in to reinforce them when they got the si : . , but instead of that they were assigned this British guide boat that was supposed to • e them into pointe du. Earl said that as soon as it got day light, he could tell that they re headed for the wrong point. There was another point one that looked very similar b t it was about 3 -4 miles to the east. He tried to convince the British guide boat that they - re headed for the wrong point, but they wouldn't listen. So finally he just took co d of his own little fleet of boats and turned them to the west which meant that they had • come in parallel to the coast line. And if they could have gone in on time, the Germans had all these underground tunnels and they were underground because the Battle Ship Texas was lobbing shells over on to the land. They couldn't stay above ground becau of all the shelling. And if they could have landed there on time they 8 could just havt practically walked in. But the shelling stopped at the appointed time and the Germans came above ground to see what was going on. And the Rangers were just sitting ducks. The Germans were there shooting them, dropping grenades on them and cutting the roles. The way they were getting up those cliffs, there were 2 ways actually, Earl borrowed some kind of fire fighting ladders from • • • MR 9 the London fire department that could be thrown up agTinst the cliffs, that were 100 feet high and then they had rockets on a the landing craft that would fire these grapling hooks with ropes on :hem to the top of the cliff and the grapling hooks would dig into the soil and they would climb the ropes, that's how they made it to the top of the cliff. He went in with 225 men and at the end of the first day only 90 could bear arms, and he had been shot through the leg which he was lucky that it didn't hit the bone and he had two neat little scars, one where the bullet went in and another where it came out. Then he was standing in, I guess it was sort of his command post, and he was between two men and a shell I suppose from ' :he Battle Ship Texas came in but it missed its mark, came in too close and they were s •'ng inside this bunker of stone and it hit the side of it. It killed the men on each side • f him and I think that he just felt that he was spared for some reason. He got shrapnel i his hip and on his arm that was with him the rest of his life. He stayed in command oft e mission the entire time. KW When did yo ever hear all this Margaret? Well, as I saic. I had picked up this friend from New York and I was showing her Texas. I had a brother who was also in the service he was on Saipan and his wife and her two little ones lived on a ranch.. So this friend of mine and I went out to their ranch to spend a few days wit them and I was out there when a friend that lived in this little town Menard called and as ed me had I seen this San Angelo paper and I said no, He said , "well get one ", your hu band's picture is on the front page, and he's been wounded, it didn't say how badly. . didn't know much of anything. But I'm telling you he was so crazy about that battalion and I remember in one of these letters that went in this exhibit I was mentioning about the Ranger group that he commanded he said," they gave their all so freely as good • • VB Oh yes KW Of course! soldiers shoulc ." It was scary, I mean, I'm glad they were specialist in hand to hand combat and in cliff KW Do you want t share with us what was that Major Baron's experience? VB Well, I can't r ;member all of them because I was just told he was in the two major battles in German y d France. KW Was he from &M? VB He was born d raised in Brazos County KW Oh, I didn't ow that. 10 VB Went to Consolidated High School, was Valedictorian of A &M Consolidated High School in 1937. An huh, anyway, I remember some of the things that he told me after he been on border du a while he went back to Fort Sill to Officer's Training School and then overseas. This 14th Armored division book that is out now tells all the moves they made before they wont overseas. But, he told me a lot about how they rescued General Patton's son -in -law. I read the book on his rescue. And they followed some of the area where Earl Rudder was, but I have forgotten the story that he told me about that. But I • • KW VB MR VB remember one story he told me. They went to a lot of these prison camps near the end of the war. And there wer a lot of soldiers that had been killed and he said they were stacked, he told me how many men, like cord wood beside the train tracks. But a lot of fellows, Ukranians, that had survi ed were going to be sent back and they didn't want to go back. But they were going to -end them anyway. And he just went against his commanding officer, and said that's wh we fought this war, we're not sending them back and they almost sent him to the federal n for that, but he found a general whose name I have forgotten that backed him up. An they let those men do what they wanted to do, go where they wanted to, rather than se d them back. He fought in two of the worst battles in France: Hatten and Rittershaffer, anuary 9, 1945. Do you reme ber anything about letters being censored? VB Did you get V letters? (e- mail ?) MR Not many, but I got some. MR My brothers u -ed those some, but Earl rarely did... . • KW What about to egrams? I did from my high school teacher. I had some le ers that even had words cut out with scissors. I did too. On of my high school teachers wrote to me while I was living in Houston and they were tho•e little V letters all the time. 11 • • MR VB KW Oh yes, I got some telegrams, and then actually, he wrote me soon after D -Day and asked me, had a Maior Street written to me, said he had asked him to. And, that's somebody that came in with a few supplies They were marooned up there on the point for 2 1/2 days with no reinforcement. They ran out of food. They ran out of ammunition, and the only thing they had to fire were German guns that they had picked up when a German soldier was killed. There's a different sound to a German gun than to an American gun, I didn't know that but hen the troops finally came across from Omaha to where they were at Pointe du Hoc They could hear these German guns, and they started shelling into them. And the first • rson that came back that I saw which really brought the war home to me, because he ha ' been severly wounded. He told me that Earl jumped on a pill -box and waved the erican flag and stopped the firing, but Earl never told me that. You know Earl just neve talked about it. that's the re VB I don't think many of them talked about it. The last few years of Joe's life when he would meet with somebody that had been in the area where he was they would talk about it, n that I don't know a whole lot about his experience. KW show that in the video. Willie, you've got the picture of the, uh. Turn it around for Willie this beautifully done of Joe Barron's war experience. He would ha loved this. Yes VB He really only had two medals. I think they played with them and lost them , I didn't • know where his bronze star was. Right before Joe died they brought it home. 12 • • • KW Who is they? VB His son Dave. And, I think Dave lost all of them, but two, but so the army sent me all of MR MR u these this last ear. I will leave this and a minature one to Joe's children when I'm gone. Well, you kno ' when the house burned, all of Earl's medals burned and it took a long time to get the replaced. And, actually, he had every medal that the army gave for bravery with t e exception of congressional medal. He had all the rest of them. If you'll look beside hi portrait over there in the Rudder Center , they asked me for those and I was so glad becau with the number of children that I had, if something happened to me they'd get sca ered around. Wouldn't be anything. So, I was glad to put them up there beside his po ait in the center named in hs memory. KW I think that's autiful. VB Well, I'm goi g to give this one to Joe's daughter and then in 1992 we spent Christmas in Washington, ave, his son was in the pentagon then, and he had a miniature of these made. So, I . • another picture made and I'll frame it, it'll be long and slim and I'll give it to Dave, I'll give this to Vivian, because they really don't know very much about.. . Earl's highest medal was the Distinguished Service Cross that's right next to the Congressional Medal of Honor. And, then, you've got the silver star, and he got the bronze star, . couple of times. He got the purple heart twice. VB See this, this i. two bronze stars. 13 • I • 14 MR And he got two foreign medals. The French Legion of Honor with Croix de Guerre and Palm, and the the Belgian government awarded him the Belgian Order of Leopold. He also received Presidential Unit Citation. VB I think Joe told me that his outfit rescued Olin Teague, now where that was I don't know. Well now, Teague landed on D -Day on Utah Beach. They didn't have such a bad time, I don't know w y. KW That's Olin T ague MR Tiger KW Tiger Teague KW MR Class of `32 a: A &M, and was our congressman for 32 years. Everything is 32. KW He was a congressman? MR And a really good Aggie. And another thing he did and... Kitty, when I get started, I talk too much So you . VB I love to hear her We love to hear, honey. We have never heard it. You know we read. I've seen that article. It asl us things like the Eagle, where neither one of you were here in College Station during World War II. So, you were close. • • • VB I came in `45. KW You both camp, after. Well, did you want to talk about movies, because I think these are pretty interest' ng . Movie Toon News it says here that you remember we all watched those news re:ls. MR Jan. `46. KW It was quite MR Roosevelt. Yes, but I thi with my children to look after, I seldon went to movies, see I had two [children] wh n he was gone. And I went back to Brady to live, even though we had been living in Step enville, because he was coaching in Tarleton. But my parents were on the ranch 36 mile. from Brady. And, his mother and brother were in Brady, so I chose to go back and stay here while he was gone that 2 years. KW So you didn't •ee many movies? MR No, I was just watching those kids move. erent growing up. What about do you remember the fire side chats of.. . 15 And, it was just over at the end of sometime during `45. Joe came home in VB Well, I didn't see a lot movies. It's quite different today, I'll never forget. I went up to see Patton. and I shocked at the language in it. Now, you just don't... It's terrible now, so you just ha e to close your ears and eyes to some of it now. • • KW Roosevelt. MR VB I remember t Yes,Oh, listen at the time Roosevelt died, I went into a real depression. I really did. Up till then, I h. • been... I guess Earl and I had been married about seven years when the war came. I . dn't had a piano and I'm one of those freaks that played by ear and first thing I did w n he left was go buy this awful looking old upright piano. And I played that thing, bu when Roosevelt died I couldn't touch it. I couldn't play. I was really depressed. KW That's where remember the news reel when Roosevelt .. . VB I really realiz: in the Persian Gulf War how different it is today. We watched it all on the movies. MR Well, certainl we see it everyday. VB I couldn't believe we knew everything so quick. And we never really knew some of it. MR 16 I wish I had c pies of something I read in some of my notes that I had for something else, when these m n came home, they didn't come home to any parades, and they didn't expect any. hey were just glad that they came out alive. And, of course, in Earl's case, I know that s favorite command was that Ranger group, and he used to say that they were like a bunch of Aggies. They were so loyal to each other, and they wanted to have • reunion, I inc.dentally, I guess this Parents' Weekend will be the 18th, I believe, • • • VB You're going o have them again? MR Oh yeah. VB It's about the ame time the reunion, well, it's in March. MR No, its April t e 18th . It's Parents' Weekend, and they love to come here, and not a single one went to A: M, but you think they all did. VB MR VB MR the 18th year at I've had the remnants of that World War II group of Rangers . They come here eve year and I have them for barbecue every year. Then They give an award to the outstan .' ng member of the Rudder's Ranger unit in the Corps of Cadets at the Awars Cerem.ny. Oh, I was thi 'ng about the Sul' Ross Reunion Oh yes, that's in March. I had an invi : tion to that one. And you said , our husband's class.. . VB Last year was his class, but this year was `42, and my friend from Georgia... Well, Dick Hervey, I beli ve was in that class, too. MR Dick Hervey d Buck Weirus both were in class of `42. 17 • • • VB And Jack Kee class of `41 thi. year. MR I go to all that tuff just like last weekend. You all went to the performance. We're getting KW No, but we'll KW Oh. KW Oh yes, now t MR KW off the subject aren't we? MR No, that was t e group of University Associates. Is that what we're talking about, where they had the o ginal production of "You the People ". CO and Dot asked me to go to a reception. They've got a reception for the Was that, co ected with this? Was that the same group? MR The Frank Shannon was in the production. me to it. What happened the night of the performance the other night. at was A &M all the way through. It was celebrating that victory of the capitol campaign. You know A &M started out 5 or 6 years ago to rise 5 hundred million. Thinking that's certainly ambitious I thought so, too. And instead of 5 hundred million , they raised 637 million, and this was a celebration of that. And that celebration brought us all the way through what we're talking about now, Sul Ross. All of tw at, but of course A &M College during W.W.II, I think you all came right after, so how was it different. 18 • • • MR KW MR Well when we came in 1958, it was so small compared to what it is now, and all male and all military. Actually, during my husband's administration there were 4 changes made and he would were made at changes made the most contr the student mean they commotion o of the house. bulldog, that came up that "Maggies" an What year could accuse lot of good s They wanted hardest one, up until `63, University, th they wanted t which A &M 19 ertainly give the board a lot of credit for this, too. Four big changes that &M which had allowed it to grow and people still tell me it was the during that time that makes A &M what it is today. But the biggest, and versial one, was the decision letting the girls in. When Earl got up before , and announced that the women would be admitted, he got booed. I d him, and, then, in the middle of the night one night I heard all this in front of the house. They burned him in effigy out in the trees in front hey really didn't want the girls to come, and we had this big English ade himself at home all over campus, anywhere. Anytime that something controversial, they would paint that dog, and they called the girls they painted him, "Maggies go home! this? `63 and, the o her changes letting the girls in, making the corp. optional and ( nobody arl of not being for the military because he had certainly taken advantage of being in the military when he was at A &M and all and then the war.) But he knew that a dents wanted to come to A &M that simply did not want to be in the corps. o concentrate on their studies. So that change, you know that was the next d then he changed the name. It was called agricultural- mechanical college d that was sort of controversial. Because, now, the Texas A &M A does not stand for agricultural and the M does not stand for mechanical, keep the sound. And most land grant colleges throughout the nation, the one in Texas use the name followed by State(i.e. Texas State • • • University), but this was not considered a popular Choice for the name. The fourth change was acknitteing the African Amaericans and that was done very smoothly. KW We're back on OK, well those are the 4 major changes. MR VB KW 20 And the inte ation, But you know the boys in college. The men, they would chant or yell, "We don't t to integrate!" By that they meant the girls, they didn't mean the minorities. T ey didn't want the girls. But now, I bet you, if you would put it to a vote, they would vo e for the girls. And, I'll tell you another thing , I think if Earl hadn't been an old footbal coach, he could see that the coaches were having a little trouble recruiting players to co e here without the girls. They didn't t to come here, because their girlfriends were not here. And, of cours , since the war they didn't want just the ROTC. VB ROTC is a lot different today than what it was, but so were the inductees into the service different fro what your husband and Joe were. They were very devoted, and they loved their country. And they went and fought for their country, and Joe did so love his country. Honest, to sa when they went, he broke down and cried. He didn't understand why other people didn't e their hats off for salute. He didn't understand that. KW And you felt it here in College Station, What others you know of, did any of your family go away to work during the war? I worked in a ship yard did any.. . MR Where did you worked in a ship yard? • • • VB KW VB KW MR VB KW In Houston, di you? In Wilmingto , Delaware. Oh really? 21 But I was gra• ted from college, worked in a ship yard, then went to teach school that fall. Well, • • you know anything about the local area, here what was happening? Oh here's somethi g that we ought to start on. Do you remember about regarding rationing? Oh yes, ma' Sugar, particu arly Who wants to •tart on rationing, OK Verda. VB Well, I'll tell ou about when I first married, uh, my husband had to come from Houston to West Texas, . d there was gas rationing. He had no gas so a man named Mobley from Navasota, he r the bus station there, he sent his station wagon, his black driver, as our chauffeur, and gas to West Texas so that I could marry. Ames and somebody said to me a few years ago, "Oh I came to your wedding, yours and Joe's wedding." And I said, "No, you didn't." H- said, "I came to your wedding, because you had a chauffeur." I said, "that was my first h sband." But, he had no gas stamps, so this friend let him have the station wagon. And e moved me to Houston. MR It was hard without gas. • VB And I remem r my Aunt in Navasota. She hoarded the sugar stamps. I think when she • • MR MR died she still ad some. I still have a f w of those in my little ration book.. You know, everything seemingly was rationed. Yo mentioned sugar; meat. But, see that didn't hit me as hard as it hit a lot of people, becau e my parents lived on the ranch 36 miles and they'd keep me in meat. And, my mot er would bring over chicken that was already cut up, ready to be fried. VB Do you know ow to cut up a chicken now. I could but I ranch and di going to mak anything. B you in just a My mother s said that's o n't want to. But Earl thought I was a little strange for growing up on a ' t know how to milk a cow or dress a chicken. He thought for sure he was me dress a chicken one time. And I'm sure this is nothing that concerns t anyway ... Well, I really have a good story about rationing, but I'll tell nute. We were by the ranch one afternoon and they weren't expecting us. d I'll be glad to give ya'all a chicken but there's' no time to dress it. Earl 22 You could see his brain working about that time, and, so, they put it in a sack, brought it home. The next morning, he got up and leaving for work, and I went out there to say g .• bye, and he took that chicken and wrung its' neck and dropped it right at my feet an you know a chicken bounces around. It was awful and he said "I want that for my lunch "and with that he drove off. Well, as soon as he got out of sight I just walked acros ' the street to my neighbor there in Brady. My neighbor had a live -in maid, in their garag apartment, and I told her, "I'm in trouble. Can I pay you to dress that chicken ?" An so she dressed it and cut it up, and he had it for his lunch. And he looked so smug and really didn't intend to tell him. But, we were at a party a little while later and he was b 'ng that he made me dress a chicken. I just finally had to tell him. But that's neither here or there, you can block that out. But on this rationing bit, he was gone • • • to war and it lad never occurred to me to check my tires. They were rationed, too, you know. And vve didn't use long distance telephone like we do now. It had to be an emergency for you to call long distance. And so, one Sunday I decided I'd take the two children, and ; ;o out and spend the day at the ranch with my parents. Well, I was breezing down the highway and had a flat. I got out and put the spare on. I had learned to do that. I cou more miles d• having to c. happened to my dad went whose name i Brady, that 23 permission to buy tires. So I went, and this had just happened a day or so before. And, Lord, I went i n with tears in my eyes telling my poor tale of woe. And Mr. White said to me, "After all, your husband is over there fighting this war for us . The least we can do is keep his wife n tires." So I got a permit to get four. And another time up in Tennessee, an awful plac . And Earl was to go on from there where we couldn't follow him. We followed him long as we could, but they were starting to go to Florida for amphibious training. d I was to leave with the two children to drive back to Texas. The next morning we oke up to the axles in the dirt. All the tires had been stolen, and we had to get somebody to take us to the county seat to the court house where they had to issues a permit. And, you know it was so strange they acted at first like they didn't believe that that had happened. But I mean they took the lugs. They took everything. On the very day that I was to start with my two kids back to Texas. KW Oh my goodn .ss. dn't do it now, but I did, and I went on down the highway. Then several wn the road I had a blow out. Then I was stuck, and Ann was the age I was her, and lead Bud two years older. We walked to the first home, and it someone I knew. I got him to take me over to my parents, and, of course, ver and got the tires and took them and had them fixed. But, a person familiar to all of you around here, was the head of the ration board at G Rollie White, and so, I had to go before the ration board to get • • • MR You know an her thing that we haven't touched on is the awful places we had to live VB No. MR MR during the . I bet you did too. Well, up in In ana it was a huge army post, but no town of any size close to it. So, the first place we ound that we could even have a roof over our head and with these two little ones. Anne six weeks old, and Bud was just two years older than that. And it was an attic. Th e was a window way down at that end and a window way down at the other, and I a little fan about 9 inches around. And had a steep stairway, but you can't imagine hat it was like, and with no kitchen privileges; you know. VB Did you ever r de the train any during that time? MR A little bit VB I went to see y boyfriend in Baton Rouge, LA. KW What year . that? VB Must have bee about `42 or `43. I had to stand up. They didn't get up to give you a seat then, and I st 24 d up quite a long ways. But, we had a lot of soldiers on there. Well, back th= soldiers had priority. The first time I ever flew on a plane was to see Earl when he ' . getting ready to go overseas. He got real good at giving orders... to me too. And he c: led, he wanted me in Trenton, New Jersey. Which is near Fort Dix. I think he calle ' me on Wednesday night and wanted me there b y Saturday noon .. . • • KW With the two children? MR KW Trenton. Oh, 25 No. First thing I did was call my parents, and they came and got the children, but I left on a bus from Brady that afternoon late and when it got to Brownwood, they had Big Camp Bowie over there and all these soldiers just piled in. There was one other girl on the bus, so she and I sat together and when we got to Fort Worth, she said, "let's go run around the corner and get a coke." So we did, and came back and the bus was almost leaving. They had changed to what looked like an old school bus, and we just barely got on there and didn't even th nk about our luggage I didn't have sense enough then to have a carry-on with anything in it, just this one piece of luggage that had everything that I was taking with me for that ten days up in New Jersey. But anyway we got to Dallas, and I had no luggage. And see, I had stayed awake all the night before when he called and told me he wanted me there, the only thing I could think of to do was shampoo my hair. And then I couldn't go to sleep. And trying to get all my stuff ready and all that. Anyway, so I stayed up the rest of that second night in Dallas waiting for my luggage to get there from Fort Worth or whatever. They had to trace it back somewhere. When I finally got it, I just said I'm not going to get left again. I'm going to take a cab right out to the airport, and that was my first plane ride. And I was enjoying it, and I was just dying for lack of sleep. Got to Indianapolis and they had a little lay over about 30 minutes and a lot of people were getting off and I said, "not me." I'm just going to get some rest. About that time, I heard them calling my name to come to the desk. I was getting bounced because I didn't have priority. Some soldier needed the seat so they had made my arrangements to take the train on in to Trenton. what a trip! • • • VB I never did get my luggage when I rode the train to Baton Rouge. I had to go buy me another dress wear. By the time I got back home, I'll say 2 or 3 days, I don't remember, my luggage came. MR KW It's still happe ng today. Well, what about entertainment or watching the troop trains go by or anyt ng like that. Did you have any of that? Convoys? MR MR KW I guess. MR I watched the rucks with the German Prisoners of War, there was a Prisoner of War camp out of Brady. And they would take those prisoners and have them do work, you know, around. I don t know where. • That happens oday, more so today VB They had one p here in Hearne. I came here in `44. It was still after there at that time, but they close it down soon after that didn't they? Brady had an irfield where they trained pilots and then they had this Prisoner of War camp and I ess that kind of helped the economy of this little town. Brady was never very large, pr bably 5 -6 thousand. Can I say just one more little thing? Anyway, like said Earl felt so close to the Rangers there were just 500 or so in the battalion,but n the 8th of December of `44 he didn't have any choice. He was ordered him to take c. mmand of the 109th regiment in the 28th division which is a Pennsylvania outfit and tha was exactly 8 days before the Battle of the Buldge. And guess where they hit. Right t •ugh them. And so he got through that and you know I still don't know 26 • how they coul ' fight , spend nights in foxholes with that snow on the ground. I just don't • • know how the ' even lived through it. VB They had so f= supplies, so little food, so little clothes. MR KW MR And Earl wan d one of these hoods to put over his head. You know and gloves, he kept wanting glove , but he went through the worst of the Battle of the Buldge. Of all the clippings and verything that I had about that, from the Philadelphia Inquerer when the house burned i ey were in a box in the attic, of course, I should of had them in a scrap book. That would h. e been gone too, a scrapbook. Well it might f been or I might have had it somewhere I could get it out of there. Anyway. But , ou know I keep up with the Rangers from all over the country, one I correspond wi h is from California, one is up in New Jersey, these Rangers they keep up with things do here. And yet the 109th group now 2 of them have sent me books that they wrote. • e was called "The Regiment, Let the Citizens Bear Arms!" And the other one was wri by an Aggie and I said about the time that my eyes start going bad on me, I get all this s i to read. But the Title of his book and he finished here in Architecture and was ac ly with this Caudel - Rowlet Scott Group. His name was Williams M. Pena and he appare tly was a pretty noted architect, but his title of his book, and I've never even met the an, but the one that wrote the first book encouraged this fella to publish a book of his o because he kept a diary and he went to A &M, I've forgotten what year, but his book i ' called "As far as Schleiden." And he explained the reason for the title was an people use to say well how far into Germany did you go? " As far as Schleidenn. " That's the titl.. of the book. 27 • KW The book. MR He wrote a ni KW You might show that book. MR Well this book, was published," Rudder's Rangers" published 1979 is getting kind of yellowed isn't e thing about having served under Earl. KW I couldn't believe it. it? Published in nineteen and seventy-nine and the fella that wrote it was a West Pointer. He actually died last year and he was class of `62 at West Point, so he must have been the age of our oldest son. Because Bud was Class of `62 here at A &M. And the man had ever written a book. And, he was stationed with the American Battle Monument's ommission in Paris, France.. And they sent him out to this spot where Earl's group ad landed and he thought, oo!!, anybody that sees that spot you can't believe it how they c go up those cliffs under fire. He Thought surely someone had written a book about it, but when he found no one had , he decided to write one. He was Lt. Col. Ronald L. La e. MR In Cornelius Ryan' s book " The Longest Day" published in 1959 he made an error which the gers have been trying to correct ever since. He said that after all the Rangers went through getting up those cliffs, when they got there they found the guns were not there. That was totally wrong . Because of the heavy air bombardment, the German Sold' camouflaged Two Rangers them. 28 ers had pulled the guns away from the point several hundred yards and hem. The Ammunition was stacked by them ready to fire on the channel. .n patrol found them, dropped thennite grenades down the barrels, disabling • • • KW MR And what did hey do with it? KW They cooked, guess. VB I used mine u i til it got rancid. KW Especially sa ng it in Texas. VB Now, its not h althy for you, so don't eat it. KW No, um, do yo want to talk about the filming of the movie at A &M in 1942? Ya'll weren't here t you've surely seen that movie. Do you have any ideas about that movie you want to di cuss. Doesn't mean anything special to you? MR KW MR 29 So that's what they did, oh goodness. They asked us to talk about. We've already talked a little bit about ecycling, it says here scrap metal and so forth. I remember grease. You know bacon ease that people saved. I guess it was •robably the first movie first made about A &M as far as I know. I think I saw that movi the day that Dr.T.O.Walton died. Oh my goodn =ss. And Robert Mitchum in there. Yeah, and wh • else was in that. KW Oh I can't even...Noah Berry, and I don't remember the other woman, oh Driskell, Martha KW MR VB MR Driskell or so the steps at Sbisa. MR Was he in the ovie? ething like that. I've seen it and I'm always watching for Will going up KW Any other co ents we want to make about military service. I just think huh. MR I could go on for 6 weeks and never cover it all. 30 Well C- ration , mail call this all, of course, the military right here and you all came after. Now, uh, we' e talked , now we've really done real well on some of these like battles engaged and edals received. Famous generals, we've named a few famous generals here. Well, you kno in Earl's case, he was, they ordered him not to go in with his bunch up the cliff, they said `ve can't afford to get you knocked out." Now I was told and certainly not by Earl, that h was the only person below the rank of Major General that was called in by Eisenhower . : ore the invasion because of the mission that they were given and so I guess it's so, but E 1 didn't tell me that. Joe spoke ve highly of Omar Bradley. Oh, Earl thou : , t the world of him and when Earl went to infantry school in Fort Bennings in late summe of 1941. General Bradley was the Commander of the infantry school at Fort Bennings So that's where Earl first knew him. See he was ordered not to go in with his battalion . d he said "I'm sorry to disobey you sir, but if I don't take it it, may not go" and so he led Battalion up the cliff of pointe du Hoc on D -Day, June 6, 1944. • • • VB I'll back up • tell you something about A &M, about the campus. Back when Joe was in high school w ich was in the 30's. He went to school on campus and, uh, right across from, let me t i ... the Music Hall. KW Because it Pfieffer Hall and the music hall... VB The music hal , right across from it was a little shot gun looking building that was where they had their lassrooms. George, what was George's last name. I can't think of what his name was. KW VB KW VB KW MR Oh this Georg - that had the little place Yeah, the littl hamburger place owned by George McCulloch. We were just 'ng about the little hamburger place before we came in. 31 Joe started sc ool on campus and of course I don't know they didn't have a high school building whe he graduated. They had those little chicken houses, I guess that's what you taught in was 't it, Kitty. Well I taught n you know, when you came up there When did yo start teaching KW `55, second : ade • • • VB KW MR KW MR KW MR When we came here there were still quite a few VB They were stil moving a lot of them when I came here. MR VB KW MR But the camp s was so different then, They moved o i the campus in `38 and `39 The school di . . Wasn't `38 about when College Station was incorporated ? Uh huh, and i was when the houses had to move off. But of course they had the... You mean the faculty houses. ? The faculty h. ses And every ti one would become vacant. They wouldn't have someone else live in it. They would j .t move it off. That house .y out there, I think it's still out there isn't it. Where? Well there's one that's on the corner of Pershing Pershing KW Pershing and George Bush 32 • MR VB MR KW VB Doctor somebody KW It was a doctor, he is in Normangee, now MR Me either, yet KW VB Oh I know w re you're talking about exactly They have se -ral well, Manning Smith's house was moved off campus VB Was that wha your talking about the Gravit's, did they live in that? They moved, think it was further down Well, that's bck on Joe's when he went to school, and you said valedictorian of his class of A &M Consolidated. See he and • of his brothers, Charlie and Weldon. Charlie was my age, Charlie graduated the same year I did in `38. Joe graduated in `37. He should have graduated in probably `36 ut he had rheumatic fever as a child. Weldon, another brother, graduated the same year Joe did. KW From high sc ool He said he rheumatic fe went back to ted to drop out of school then because he missed a few years with the r and he said Ethel Burgess, Mrs. Hershel Burgess, inspired him and he chool and graduated valedictorian. 33 KW Isn't that won MR VB MR MR day he was si erful My mother 7 a teacher Mine was too and so was Joe's 34 And I tell you she was so serious about our school work that I used to have to put a book cover on a book of fiction, if I wanted to read it. But she expected it of us and so I was one of those. I couldn't say too much about my grades once I got in college but I was in high school. I remember my sister was the first one, and she was valedictorian and then my next brother who was in Tarleton when Earl was ( Earl was in Tarleton 2 years, before coming here.), He was salutatorian and my mother was so disappointed, she could hardly bear that, that he was salutortian. Then my next brother graduated from high school the teen. We all kind of got accelerated )and he was valedictorian. KW Did you have to go in from the ranch to a Consolidated school. What happened when I was growing up through the seventh grade my dad ranched in Sutton Count} and the ranch was so far out it was strange it was forty miles and then huh, I had all my children, 4 of them at least uh, I 've forgotten even what year that was but they had built a new road between Sonora and Manard, where we had gone to school. And then since the ranch was so far out, we had to have a home in Sonora. And then my mother got a 1 tired of keeping 2 houses going but anyway they straightened the road out. And I so was taking the kids home from a trip out to Carlsbad caverns and I looked and a sign sai• Valiant Ranch, I think it said 6 miles and I said that's the one that bought out the ranch. So I just wheeled in there, and it was only like 26 miles because they'd straightened i out the road. Used to, you'd have to go through everybody's pasture around • • • KW MR KW every thicket, , ou know, opening gates and all that. Then my dad in 1927 bought the ranch in Me d County from G. Rollie White's youngest brother, Johnny. I could tell you a whole k of stuff on the White Family because they were the family in Brady, but anyway that's for another story. But my mother's first year down there Menard was 23 miles. Mason was 21 and the question was well, how was I going to go to school, days before school uses and my mother never did drive a car, and my dad, he was one of those that got up be ore the crack of dawn and he was out in the pasture at 6 o'clock so, I said listen that's no problem I love to ride horseback, I can ride. Seven miles there and seven back. I said o a boy I got so sick of horses before that year was over. How old were ou when you rode the horse? as MR Twelve, an y see, I had finished well it's a long story, but I practically didn't go to school my firs grade cause see I was the only one left at home. VB You made two grades in one year. 35 No what ha ned in Sonora, we were the closest house to the school campus. And my mother becam friends with the first grade teacher and she would bring books and tell my mother what s e was doing in her class. And my mother, just to give me something to do would teach there at home, you know, and so my birthday was right at the end of April and so I was 6 And the teacher said" well she's six now, let her come to school." So, I was in school less than a month and she promoted me. That's how I got my early start. Anyway that's neither here or there. That's what 're talking about, is how times were different and of course, I think this was interestin we did answer that one about for the military, like housing, places to live and you menti a ned some of those terrible places.. • • • VB MR VB n't anything to rent. When I came here... in May of 45, there wasn't a house to be . We shared a house, it's the one that was behind right across the street from Methodi.t Church, behind that what was College Station State Bank, at that time, a little old I • e house back there. We shared that with a couple. KW Did you have . tchen privileges? VB Yes and we shared a refrigerator, but it wasn't too successful. MR Can you imagine. VB It was terrible KW When did you buy a house on Marstellar VB KW VB College Statio I bet anything Well, there n was the worst place would rent wouldn't it ? `51 I believed `51, and befo that you lived in... These little re t places were holes in the wall. and I had a seven month old baby, too. 36 • • MR 2 weekends ag I had to speak then we decidE we went there 37 o, see since my eyes are going bad I can't drive the highway so Anne drove, to Dallas County A &M Mothers Club, so we were up in Dallas 2 nights and d to make a little fun trip out of it. So I have a daughter in Weatherford, so Jane's 2 little girls from Fort Worth had driven over there. So there were four of my grandchildren right there. And, so we went on to Granbury for lunch and Granbury has become really a nice little tourist place. And the Weatherford bunch and the Fort Worth bunch, they had to leave after lunch but Anne and I we went on to Stephenville. And I said "Anne I remember exactly where your dad and I rented a furnished house for $35 a month and it was just real close to the Tarleton campus too. And as we drove down that little street the man stepped out the front door and I said" Ann e stop a minute and it was the fella that we had rented it in from 1938. Can you believe that? And I'n not lyin' not one bit. And he asked us to come in. He was a single man and, worked f to own that h We started ou and this little Screened in porch over where they drove the car under - neath. And we were so poor that we rented out that one bedroom to the old maid librarian for $12.50 a month and she shared the bathroom and the kitchen and all. Times were tough. But anyway we go into this house for $35.00 per month in Stephenville and I thought, as we were negotiating wi h owner , this tall sort of slender man with red complexion and ears that stuck straight put. But the kindest old fella, he was a retired education professor at Tarleton and he walked in and he said, "now you don't have to rent me that front bedroom , but all that fyrniture in there is mine and I have a lady that comes and cleans it every week and you don't furnish me anything and, I'll pay; you $18.00 per month." See that was one dolla more than half the rent. So we kept him and he was the kindest old fella. He was like a .econd father to us. His name was Charlie Hale. r Cox Dept. Store at the time we rented from him. I guess he just happened x se, and uh, for $35.00 a month. And to show you how poor when we were. in Brady, we had this upstairs little apartment that just had one bedroom • • MR VB MR MR KW MR Can I ever! $150.00 for th whole deal. I found a chec for Bud's, he was born in Stephenville in 1940, that shows you how old he is. (My son is ,setting awfully old to have such a young mother.) Anyway Dr. Langford, he had kind o a maternity home. All the girls I knew were going to Dr. Langford and for all the pre • . care and 2 days before delivery and 2 days after. Was 45 dollars. Earl saved that the k and where it said for he put, "one baby boy". Then the next one we had her Anne at B ooke General At Fort Sam Houston and I was in the hospital 17 days and she cost $42.00 and that was for food. She was born in `42. And I can sure get off the subject can't I Linda. More days bef re she's born than after because, I got in a hurry and I said let's get this show on the ro Because the of ers we little They were in s hool. See and, I went to San Antonio because the doctor that I had had with Anne ' • ted me there 2 weeks early. I liked him so much and he was starting to use • KW Renting a roo already VB Can't you rem mber how much cheaper it was to have a baby then. 38 KW No but you go = ead and tell us. Linda is next so how long did you stay in the hospital for • • • this spinal inj ction thing that you didn't have to go through all this labor. So I just had to go back to hi And anyway so I just wanted to rush it up and that ended in disaster so like I said I in the hospital seven days before she's born 5 after she's born. MR And, anyway, et's see the next was Jane, you know they say I should write down for my children's ben fit you know, the facts of how they got into the world. Jane and Bob were both born in Brady. Jane, in 1948. Bob in 1954. KW MR VB You weren't s ppose to put your feet on the floor for 14 days. But I did You can get a copy of this, it will be wonderful. Well, I'm not oing to go into, but anyway Bob was my last and he was 6 weeks premature, I : ve the bill, and the doctor even thought it was a section charged $100.00. And now I thi its like,what is it $10,000.00 or something like that, to do a C- section. VB And they won t let you stay in the hospital very long now. MR We couldn't e en bring him home though, he didn't weight but 4 pounds and 4 ounces and, we didn' bring him home until he was 5 weeks old. KW When you we • at Stephenville was Doc Birdwell there then? VB I remember so well when Earl came here. I was working in the exchange store with Dr. Birdwell and e came in to see Doc. MR Yeah, he and ggy and 3 kids. 39 • • VB Oh was Bob MR VB MR KW Yes, they wer both at the same exchange store at Tarleton. And Howard 'tchell? Was Bob at Stephenville, too? MR He and Bob B : ham. n there, too? Yes, and his 'dow, Eldora. VB And she's sti living VB I know I've s n her Tell us about e exchange store here. Because that's pretty good. We've really done a lot. Look at t : 's, finding a job, cost of living, we did that, marriage and having children, medical facili ies that were available locally. Now when you came in `46 VB `45 KW `45 old St. Jo ph Hospital. VB Was Downto KW I had Fred th e in `47. VB I had Peggy i there at one time she had convulsions and I spent the night there with her. 40 • • 0 MR KW VB That's where I Those sister's Well, nursing KW But that was the only place VB Well later they had a Bryan Hospital MR Yea they sure a 'd KW When was the a Bryan Hospital MR Remember t doctor Walton's other son T.T. Walton was at that Bryan Hospital VB T.T. operated •n me. MR There was a D . Wilkerson, I remember, but I never met him. VB Sara Holmgree , Sara's daddy, but he was involved with that Bryan Hospital KW That was Ella ' ilkerson or something. VB The city owns building now. They later built that brick building. The city has taken that in. VB Oh I think they had some of the courts there at one time. KW Was the Bryan ospital there early VB I had surgery i the Bryan Hospital in 1945. KW As early as wh VB In `45 KW So I don't reme ber that VB September, Oct • r 45 took Earl when he got sick v ere wonderful va s better then, I think than it is now. 41 • • • 42 KW I remember, tltle u VB St. Joseph was not like it is now. I'm not even sure if it was a brick building it might have been a frame • ilding. KW Will said he - nt there when he was in college, but I forgotten that, MR I'm one of the e fortunate souls that only worked one year for pay. Now, we didn't have anything, but i was the year before I married Earl. I had just got out of you know that place in Austi KW University of exas MR Sixty years ag last year. That kind of dates me doesn't it. VB Well mine is using to be pretty soon sixty, well next year I'll be out sixty years. MR I think you're olding your own better than I am. VB Thanks. MR But anyway, t ough I taught that year and I almost didn't get a job. KW Where did yo teach? MR Brady at Earl' . suggestion, we were already dating. Had been for a couple of years. And, huh, he came own to Austin and told me to apply there. So, I had my birthday being the 28th day of A • ril and graduation before the 1st of June. I had just barely hit 20. And they needed some older and somebody who had experience and I didn't think I was going to have a job • first. But the superintendent reconsidered letting me in. I made the grand sum total of $ 00 per month for 9 months. You didn't teach in the summer time so you didn't get pal • in the summer time. KW And what did , ou do beside teach? What grade did you teach? MR I taught, well, I have to confess, Jane always laughed about this. She said "Mom the jock ". No I a physical ed. teacher because, I never even had a class in it in High School. Neith.r did I have a class in home economics, though Earl put me in school to learn how to c. after I had my degree, and were married. No physical ed., was just sort •I II • • • KW MR KW VB MR KW MR of coming int that's for me, You were the Well all of it. school girls. they had at th married teach you talk about hours and you know you never thought extra pay for extra hours. I never even played a with them, the sponsor, I me direct the seni parents hadn't would have I was going to say how could you live on that $100.00 I made $150.0 home. I think my room and board was $40.00 I paid $38.00 the high sch That was roo And she had we, my roo had a private e re- elected the regular pay rol year with the e 43 his own there and I was a tennis player and I had been since knee high. So o go into college. Some of it nearly killed me. nnis coach was the department. So I had all the girls in Junior high and all the high d my senior girls were 2 years younger than I was. And guess what else time because it was depression. They had a rule that they wouldn't hire rs. Isn' [t that neat. So I said I just got warmed up good that first year and e of volley ball but I was made volley ball coach and I met before school I was pep squad leader and that was after school. And then senior class they saw me coming. I was young and enthusiastic. Anyway I had to r play and all that stuff. So but anyway $100.00 a month. and if my bought my first months clothes and paid my first month room and board. I n in a hole at year's end. working at the bank and I lived in town. Roomed and boarded away from month room and board, in one of the nicer homes that was fairly closed to . I didn't have a car then, I just walked. and board onderful meals. Her husband was head of the telephone company. Anyway e and I, had this large room with 2 big double beds and private bath. I trance. But I couldn't' teach the next year, we waited until I was he did tell the school board we were going to marry I couldn't be on the but I was the chief substitute and I taught in every single grade that next ception of first. We must have had a healthy bunch of first grade teachers • • KW And you didn' teach as a coaches wife? MR No he put me i school that's before we had any family. And he had me take the food and clothing cours =s. VB What did you ajor in MR Physical Ed. VB At college, wh n you said you never worked but that one year, I worked 38 years. MR And you still •rk VB Yes, but not fo pay, for volunteer work, now MR Yea, but you d things that you do for me. VB oh yea, alterna ions. KW Oh do you do t • t well. We've got to get together. MR Listen, she is eat she really is. VB I opened my m +uth at the health clinic the other day and told Billy, I was talking to somebody else • •ut sewing she said, "Oh, you do alterations." I said, "Yes." She said, "Can I bring y. mine." KW VB KW 44 because I neve taught the 1st grade. I taught subjects I'd never even had you know And then at th end of that year is when earl was made coach of Tarleton so we left Brady to go to Steph vile. Well did you • that back when you were back in the bank, Imean when did you start doing that. I started sewin when I was in high School and I went to state in high school in sewing. But I quit sewi g after Peggy got up old enough to sew for herself and I went back to helping her aft =r she got to teaching school and she was doing some sewing and she got behind. It might be good Verda to put on the tape who Peggy is now because it will • • VB MR KW Willie KW MR VB MR KW MR VB MR Peggy Callih now. She gr showing pictu In case ya'll then and he c I don't know comment on t Yea All right now That is Earl he was our gre Joe and I visit Listen, he was And where is t That was at th pictures of it. Yea, but an after the war. was our best F really hard. the committee concrete. , she's public relations and marketing officer for the city of College station uated from Consolidated high school in 1963. She was Peggy Ames, ( es). t to see these, these were taken in 1964, Lyndon Johnson was president e 12 couples to go to Normandy for the 20th anniversary of D -Day. you can comment on those but you ought to identify them. Can you ose. Can you see that at all, Willie. ell us again who that is d Tiger Teague. Olin Teague, who were classmates their class of `32 and t congressman for 32 years. And he died about 1981. 45 him in Washington. He was so kind to us. wonderful guy s taken, Margaret. monument, where. See the French built this big monument. I've got great Earls' name on both side. On this side is in English, there's one just like it on the o her side that is in French. y look at the concrete you talk about concrete they must of had a shortage ee these are old these are 1964. And here this old fella Mr.Ravelet, he nch friend and he wrote me until he was 94. And oh he took Earl's death d this one was a photographer but this old fella was the one who formed d raised the money to build this monument. See it goes way up to the top. It is suppose to represent a Ranger's knife stuck in the ground but look at all that • • • KW This is a very mpressive MR Now that's at erican Cemetery on Omaha Beach KW On Omaha Be MR Now here's o - of Earl and Tiger. And see this is the Pointe du Hoc. KW Now this is th point, that we were talking about cliff. MR And that poin P- o-i -n -t -e Duhoc. Poiinte of the hawk. Like it's a hawk's bill VB Where's that MR Normandy VB MR Well I don't ow I thought it was made in grandcamp. It's spelled just like grand camp but they call it gran camp. 46 MR You know ov there it's so windy and I hated a scarf above all else but I had to have one on my head. VB Look like KW She does look i ike Anne here too MR And here's us with Freddie Teague. She has a scarf on her head too. KW This is when ou went back in huh MR In `64 KW in `64 MR That's the onl time I went with Earl KW is that the onl time you went with Earl MR But listen this trip was headed by General Omar Bradley it had General Matthew Ridgeway, Ge eral J. Lawton Collin, and General Quesada, I mean it was a high powered group. We fe so lucky that we got to go on it. And you might say that we got to spend a weekend over here went on Thursday, came back on Monday. ere was it made • C years active dui See Texas only he was, I guess star. And he KW Oh my goodness. MR And it was ceremony after ceremony. French are big on ceremonies. KW How old was Earl when he died MR `59 KW `59 KW He looked so y ung. MR And he looked in such good health, he served 35 years in the Army Reserve and every summer he would go 2 weeks summer camp for the Army hit and got arm. VB How old was he when he first went into the service. MR Well he was bdrn in 1910, he was 31 when he went in cause he went in in 41. Bud was 47 born when Ear was 30 we'd been married 3 years, when we first married. I would get so aggravated bec use on Sunday afternoon at Tarleton, there was a fella that was on the faculty there, t at every Sunday afternoon, he would come over and he and Earl would work on corres ndence courses that realted to the the Military Reserve. So I thought we could do a lot ¶fun things, if he didn't have that stuff to worry about every Sunday. But ;you know it paid off, he got ordered out as one rank and before he got to his first post he was promoted. but then he was faithful he stayed in the reserved the whole time. he was 5 y during World War II. But he went up higher and higher in the division. has one reserve division and in 1954 he became commander of it, by then he was a one star general and then he got promoted to a major general, two s commander of the 90th division from 54 to 63. He did that along with his civilian job and he would have a full day. And he'd rush home and get into that uniform ( which I had just steam pressed, see that was my job, keeping those ;uniforms, polishing that brass.) All that stuff. drive him self to Austin, come back in the middle of the night. He worked real hard at it and yet he didn't live to age sixty so and they won't C ,` let me go to PX or commensary, no benefits. Isn't that sweet. • KW That's amazin :. MR You know Co : ess has passed the law now that that's not the case but they didn't make it retroactive. Y r u know, I've gotten along with out it, but it would have been nice. VB Especially wh= you had family. MR I don't know y .u'd have to go to fort hood or go to those. and of course there's a lot of medical benefi s too. KW Medical benefi s MR I never did kne what it would have been if I had been eligible to get it. VB Your medical nefits were good, Joe has a sister -in -law in El Paso, she's a retired Army Colonel nurse, and he's retired from military too. And she say's military benefits now are not what they se to be. You don't have the good doctors that you use to have. 48 MR Well, I know t at having Anne at this Fort Sam Houston. I had to stay there 17 days and it cost $42.00 VB You don't get he cream of the crop in doctors now. MR Well, I just do 't think that they had a better one then. RM 13 years befor= I was born MR Now this is g and you see this is that monument that is on the top there and it's based on a German ' nker. And do you know that to this day, (my husband would have been gone 27 years his next month.) They still have memorial services for him in Normandy, every year. d I send a message over which they read. VB That's wonde 1 MR Isn't it nice KW I've been therms and the only person's name that they give you on the hand out is Earl Rudder. 'I II • • • MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB He is well kn anybody that h day, there's an You have a do Yes, a dormito that. But you the minister t kind of tuned Foundation, I students. I tho named for pe G. Rollie Whit I was in there he hyperbaric chamber with Dr. Benbow too, I had to go in there to get my leg to heal afte my heart surgery. I think Dr. Fife is really nice. Yeah, I've bee intending to go back I have a new disease I want to ask him about. You have what. I have heard o I have never h I couldn't find tin my medical book and it sounds like chronic fatigue syndrome. I've got somet •ng that you've got in your house now. What? I've got one of hose cardio gliders. Oh, have you? I got on hers w en I took some stuff there and it really does exercise you. I didn't know t at you could set the tension until someone told me and I started it on number nine to ion. II ID . and you know the latest thing here at A &M, I never have known had as many things named for him as Earl. I read in the paper the other under water basin out in the gulf named for him named after you, don't you? I lived so long they finally named something for me. I couldn't believe ow what I was thinking I was sitting at church, oh not too long ago and t particular Sunday, he talked fast. He talked faster than I could listen so I 'm out and I thought you know I need to volunteer over at the Wesley o to A &M Methodist they want somebody there kind of to talk to the ght I could tell them all kinds of tales about the buildings there on campus le, and those are people I knew. a new disease I want to asked him about called Microfibromyalgia. d of that. 49 L • MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB MR VB KW MR VB MR I haven't even at all. You need to gr Listen I bough bought some one of those, I push your feet It's good for y Yea and I've n inches in the Using that? yes. I didn't use it f I know that but No I don't thi Well I think all on that there is I don't know h The girls all at because I'm 75 I hit 80 last ye up the fact of h of my children school and he j knew that. In t birthday, didn't hanged my its probably on the easiest. But it squeaks. Does yours squeak ase it two, first I gave it a shot of WD 40 and that didn't seem to help. And I g at Wal -mart. Well I bought this silicone, but my daughter -in -law had ay have told you. Have you ever seen them. It has big handle bars, you d arms. r arms and legs both. ver had the strength in my arms but anyway. May daughter -in -law last 3 st and went down from a size 14 to 10 in pants. 50 r that reason, I just use it to keep from shuffling when I walk. ou said one day, I've been real conscious to see if I'm shuffling you do. of this is because look at what these women are spending there time o way their mothers would of my poor mother did all she did. Didn't drive a car - ever. he health clinic are young and they think I'm the most amazing thing ears old. They just think its wonderful. Anyway, my birthday actually fell on a Sunday, so my children brought ng something and I said" no way I don't want anything." I knew that all re coming and all but one of my grandchildren. Brad was in medical t couldn't. Anyway, I knew I wasn't going to have to cook for them. I e church in the little bulletin it said that the flowers were in honor of my ay which one, from my children and grandchildren, and the minister got • • • VB MR KW MR VB MR VB up and said thi her. I said he Well you ought I could remember my dad he was so proud when he hit 80 because he didn't look it. You don't loo i it either I do No you don't I know that I n around more than I probably should. That's what ke-p you young. How many 80 year old do you know that has the memory that you have. MR I'm going to h «id on to that as much as possible. Because my sister she was not only the valedictorian i ;high school but in college and she now has Altzheimers. KW How old is she now, Margaret MR 88 KW 88 KW And when did t MR I think it's bee gone a couple of years, I think I'd better get busy and write down a lot of thiings for my amily. VB It is hereditary i understand. MR her's started, h r difficulty started with this macular degeneration which I have. I have something else that she didn't have but that's what started her downfall. They did live on the anch. See I'm the only one that left the county and I'd say all my, I had 2 brothers and o e sister and everybody ranched. I came way down here. KW I remember Joe Huffman is from Brady too. MR who KW Mary Joe H ii an MR I didn't know t at 51 is Margaret's 80th birthday. Everybody get up and sing happy birthday to ure blew that one. to be proud • • • KW MR VB There's other There's so where we live little tiny town Eastland Cou MR Is that right, died that sprin traffic light. a gazebo and named for hi hundred, a hu outstanding se the only post and A &M. Jane and I eve Campus was him. It's a ne VB He was a well MR He just did so Austin where KW I was going to VB That was just MR He was re-el came after hi bachelor degr KW That had what t school it's a middle school, Earl Rudder Middle school. iked man. uch in his short time and then after that in `88 a state officer building in e had his office when he was Land Commissioner. It was named for him mention the land commissioner. fore he came back. ed for a second term and half way through that term the board of A &M There will never be another president of this institution that just had a and that's all Earl ever had. ople from Brady 52 y people that think that's Earls home town but it really wasn't. No it's when we first married and where he coached football but he was, born, in a of Eden which is between Brady and San Angelo. , not Eden, as I first said. '11 have to get together. No that's the first thing named for Earl after he of 70 was the park right in the center of Eden. Eden is so big it has one d if you just go half a block from that traffic light there's the park. It has plaque and all that. But after that of course, the center on campus was i n `73. But before George Brown, of the Brown foundation gave a dyed thousand in memory Earl and from that they give that award to the or every year. $5,000.00 cash award with a plaque. And he was named mous distinguished alumnus he was the only one, at two places at Tarleton d then in `74 they named an army camp, a Ranger camp in Florida for him. t down for that. And then, In 1973 the Rudder Center on the A &M ed for him. I can't think in `82 the school in San Antonio was named for • MR KW MR A bachelor's. '60 Baylor awarded him an honorary doctorate. And you know it was funny, when h was first elected President of A &M, we were invited to Harvard, we studied the ne university president and their wives. I thought I had just gone a long for the ride but the 'd give us something that thick to read for the night. And throw out these problems, and . k what would you do about it? ha. I don't know. I've never done that before. But an . y the first night we were there they separated the men from the woman. And Earl tells t s story about the fella in the group got up he was from Principia College I had never he . d of it before. it's the Christi. Science School Is it, well I'm ad you know that. Anyway he got up and he looked at the crowd over and he said "Well it looks like we got a good group, no broken down generals, no retired politicians, I gu ss we've all come up through the ranks. By then Earl had become buddies with L U, president, University of Houston and Rice Presidents. The four of them they kind if stuck together because they were from the same area. And they kind of zeroed in on E. 1 after this guy had said this. Earl said "I guess you got me on all 3 counts "? KW That's wonde I now this was a study at Harvard MR Yes what do yo call that method that have at Harvard. They present the problem and you are supposed to gure out the solutions. KW Solutions and th y brought in College Presidents when was this MR It was about 196 1 . We were still int he old house KW You were still in the old house MR and you know th one I still call the new house. The one that is there now. ( The Presidents Hous We moved into it in October 1995 KW Yes, re doing fine and were closing this at 12:00 53 • MR MR VB MR VB MR VB MR MR MR VB Anyway, can y campus to see other house built on. I don't know I was so shock Well and you I haven't been they don't call I used to do it Bryan. I still do it at th Anyway, when state had becau hand made in that's an intere And, the scienc 1963. They ha new building, s that brick is so Oh yeah and yo build the house Bernath gave th The concr Yeah, he's was He's dead. u believe after the house burned. Doris Hannigan and I we walked the here we thought they should build the new Presidents home. Where the right across from the chapel. It's where lechner and McFadden dorms are at they're going to do. ow they've done away with "Cain Pool" and "Deware" field house. n campus in a while, I worked with Red Cross up there, not too long ago, e anymore. down at Lutheran Church and then down at theist Presbyterian Church In Lutheran Church some but I did First American Bank hey built the new president's house; Earl called it the best bargain the e it cost so little, see that brick is brick from the old science hall. It was earne in the early 1890's ing point to have on there too hall was built from it, and at the time the old presidents house burned in already planned to tear down the old science halls to make room for a they just reserved that brick to build the current president's house. uch better than the brick today is know, when, the part that was left over after they reserved enough to ople from Houston came up in droves to buy that. Anyway, then Bob concrete for the driveways and foundations. e, you know Bernath. You've got that B- E- R- N -A -T -H oncrete man, he's no longer living. 54 c v MR VB MR MR Dow Chemical know he was it really. I remer cost the state 60,000 to build that house and when it was built it had 6500 square feet and it's more t over and said. " brought the plat Dede Well Well I think Ge with." I said, me see what I c services and the gave the insulation and Ford Albritton gave the doors and windows. You that business Alenco and ahh.... oh we just had all these. donations, and fiber Earl saying it's plenty if they would have just built it yesterday that it an that now because they closed in the space between the house and the garage and cloyed in some space across the back of the house. 55 Did you live there first Yes, I even got to help plan it, Dede Matthews, was the architect, at first they had somebody else 4o the plans. The architect came and he very proudly rolled out these plans on the dining room table and I looked and I thought, oh golly it was awful. it was all one story and you lked into a great big foyer and it had a little square drawn right in the middle of the f yer and I said" what's that "? he said," oh, that's where the heating and air conditioning," 's and then down to the right there was a hallway where the bedrooms went up and down, a ut six bedrooms and I've forgotten where the bathrooms were, but anyway to the 1 ft of the foyer was the living room, dining, breakfast room, utility room, kicthen and gar e, and it looked like Memorial Funeral Home. It had that peaked roof with that windo that came all the way into the peak, so the only thing I could think of to say was " I'll slow it to my husband as soon as he comes in, so Earl felt like I did about it. So a couple weeks later we were at a party, and Dede Mathews was there and came Well, how are the plans for the house coming ?" I told him they had s by, but we don't care for them what do you have in mind? gian Colonial is pretty and he said " well, let me see what I can come up ell you're talking to the wrong person, talk to Earl " and he said well, let come up with and since he was an Aggie, he didn't charge for his decorator was Jean Donaho, also an Aggie. And he didn't charge for his • services. So it eally was the best bargain oh and R.B. Butler, a local builder, built it is his cost with t - best materials, and it has stood the test of time. It really has I love that house. VB Who was living there when the year that Glenn McCarthy came up and they had a party in the garden. MR Where in the h use? VB Yeah. MR It wasn't us. I ew who he [McCarthy] was, but I never met him. VB My husband on the city commission, and they had the commissioners and their wives there. MR And it was the urrent house. VB Yeah, it was a ew house. MR Well you know, there was one architect Professor that sort of blew a fuse about it, he said, after all this is t e 1960s, not the 1860s; he thought we should have gone with a more contemporary • sign VB I'm glad you di . 't. MR Well, I'm glad, KW Well, I think thi has been nice for all of us, and we thank you. MR I knew it was g• ng to be fun... Why did I say all that stuff? KW Well, I think yo should listen to it. I don't think we over take each other very often. How do you thi we did? You didn't put your hand up at any time. We didn't even look to see if you did. How did you do Willie? Willie Oh, pretty good. VB What am I su sed to do with this? MR What grade are ou in? VB Sixth. 56 • • MR And to tell you the truth. I bought myself a little tape recorder something like that you are using. 57 March 6, 1997 Ms. Margaret Rudder 2809 Rustling Oaks Bryan, Texas 77802 Dear Ms. Rudder, We'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be interviewed on February 19, 1997, for the City of College Station Memory Lane Oral History Project on the Military. I truly enjoyed transcribing your interview and find both of your memories of the past very interesting. I ask that you please read over the enclosed transcript, which has been doubled spaced and cross out whatever you feel does not belong. There maybe names of individuals or places that are incorrectly spelled, please feel free to correct these. In transcribing these over a tape, there are times that an individual may have dropped their voice or maybe looked away, or maybe even two people were speaking at once, which makes it hard to understand the tape. Please understand that if anything was put into your transcript incorrectly, it was not deliberately. I ask that you make all corrections and return to the Conference Center by March 28, 1997, if at all possible. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to call me at 764 -3720. Once again, thank you for participating in the Military Oral History. Sincerely, Sylvi1/ artinez Sen'ir Secretary CITY OF COLLEGE STATION Conference Center 1300 George Bush Drive College Station, Texas 77840 (409) 764 -3720 FAX: (409) 764 -3513 Remarks: Memory Lane: interviewer City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Oral History Stage Sheet Military Name Barron, Mrs. Joe R. Worley, Kitty Interview Place College Station Special sources of information Date tape received in office 2 / 19/9 I Original Photographs Yes Describe Photos Sent to interviewee on Final copies: Typed by Proofread by: Indexed by: Sent to bindery by Received from bindery Deposited in archives by: Interview No. ° Interview date 2/19/9/ Interview length 2 and 1/2 hours Conference Center, Leslie Boykin's otrice # of tapes marked No # of photos Date Recd L Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on 2 Received 2119 Yes Date Signed Restrictions - if yes, see remarks Transcription: S. Martinez First typing completed by Pages (name) First audit check by Damian Turner P ages 56 Received from interviewee on I : 5/.7711.2 Copy editing and second audit check by ,.,, ,,,,, (name) l ra.A Pages 1) 14iela O Alert Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Original photos returned to: 44 / 7 me) Pages Date Yj // Date Date 32 7 Pages Pages 56 Date Date: Date: Date Date Date Date / 19 / Date Date X No No 3/3/97 3/4/97 Date °marks: Memory Lane: Name City of College Station Memory Lanes Oral History Project Military Rudder, Mrs. Earl Interviewer Worley, Kitty Interview Place College Station Special sources of information Date tape received in office 2/19/97 Original Photographs Y Describe Photos First audit check by Sent to interviewee on /6 �/ Iname) Received from interviewee on V 3 / 1 7 Oral History Stage Sheet Indexed by: Sent to bindery by Received from bindery Deposited in archives by: Interview No. Interview date 2/19/97 Interview length 2 and 1/2 hours Conference Center Leslie Boykins's office # of tapes marked 2 Yes No # of photos Date Recd Date 2/19/97 Interview Agreement and tape disposal form: Given to interviewee on 2/19/97 Received Yes X No Date Signed Restrictions- If yes, see remarks below. Yes No Transcription: First typing completed by S . Martinez Pages (name) Damian Turner Pages 56 Date 3/3/97 56 Date 3/3/97 Copy editing and second audit check by Lew i s 6, / r Pages Date " /NT 9- ,�^^ (name) Final copies: Typed by LA 4 /Li- Pages Date T /7/ 7 Proofread by: 1) ita P.,,,tiklA Pages Date y /3/37 2; Pages Date Photos out for reproduction: Where to: Date: Original photos returned to: Date: Date Date Date Date