HomeMy WebLinkAboutOral History Transcript_Karl Mooney_December 2022 HERITAGE PROGRAM
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Oral History Transcript
Interviewee: Karl Mooney Interviewer: Meaghan O’Rourke Date: December 15, 2022 Location: College Station City Hall, 1101 Texas Ave. Keywords: City of College Station Mayor; Texas A&M University, Athletic Department, John
David Crow Transcriber: Meaghan O’Rourke
*Please Note: This transcription is verbatim with the exception of a few edits for false-starts,
repetitions, pauses in speech, filler words and additional clarification.
*Disclaimer: The thoughts and views present in this transcription are not representative of the
City of College Station but solely of each recorded individual.
00:03 Meaghan O’Rourke (MO): My name is Meaghan O’Rourke. I’m the Historical Records
Archivist for the City of College Station. It is 2:36 [p.m.] on Thursday, December 15th, 2002
[2022] and I’m here with –
00:14 Karl Mooney (KM): 2022.
00:15 (MO): 2022!
00:17 (KL): Yeah, you said 2002.
00:19 (MO): 2002? 2022!
[Laughter]
00:21 (KM): Let’s see, 2002, you were how old? [Laughs].
[Laughter]
00:26 (MO): [Laughs] Couldn’t talk probly.
00:29 (KM): Not conducting interviews that’s for sure. [Laughs]
00:30 (MO): Yeah [laughs] – Nope. I’m with former mayor Karl Mooney and go ahead – You
served from 2016 to 2022.
00:44 (KM): Right.
00:45 (MO): For how many terms?
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00:47 (KM): Two terms. One, I was elected. The present mayor, John Nichols, was my
opponent, but I’m very glad that John is now the mayor. The second term, I was unopposed,
which turned out to be a blessing in disguise that I had no idea in August, when the last
opportunities to become a candidate were announced, that I would be as thankful as I was that I
didn’t have to beat the campaign trail. Mainly because in October of that year – October 10th to
be precise – my wife suddenly and unexpectedly passed away.
01:37 (MO): I’m sorry to hear that.
01:38 (KM): So, anyway. But yeah, that’s – sometimes God’s got things figured out and we
don’t understand why he’s got it figured out.
01:48 (MO): Yes sir.
01:49 (KM): I still don’t understand that one.
01:52 (MO): I’d like to hear more about you and your family first and then I’ll lead into –
01:56 (KM): Okay, and then get into all the crappy politic stuff?
01:59 (MO): [Laughs] Yes, yes.
[Laughter]
02:01 (MO): More about the campaign and how that went.
02:03 (KM): Yeah, sure.
02:05 (MO): So, first off, when and where were you born?
02:07 (KM): [Dental click] I was born in Newark – it’s N-E-W-A-R-K – New Jersey. [In non-
rhotic dialect] “New Jersey”.
02:14 (MO): That’s my street name – Newark. I say Newark [rhotic pronunciation] but I guess
it’s Newark [non-rhotic pronunciation]. [chuckles]
02:19 (KM): Well, it all depends. If you’re in Delaware, with the city of the same name, it’s [in
rhotic dialect] “Newark”.
02:26 (MO): Okay.
02:26 (KM): Alright. So, you just never know. Y’know, you could be talkin’ to somebody – Are
you over in Castlegate?
02:33 (MO): Yes sir.
02:33 (KM): Yeah, I know the street. Yeah, it’s actually a loop.
02:34 (MO): Okay [laughs]. Now you know where I live. [Laughs].
02:36 (KM): [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [in agreeance]
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02:39 (MO): And everyone else does. [Laughs].
02:40 (KM): Yeah, no, I know some folks who live on that street. As matter of fact, just as you
come in on that street, on the left-hand side. I know the folks that live right there.
02:48 (MO): Okay.
02:48 (KM): Yeah, yeah. [chuckles]
02:50 (MO): So, you were born in New Jersey. Start there and how did you get here in College
Station.
02:56 (KM): How did I get here? I lived in New Jersey for most of my boyhood until I was 18.
Then I went to Trenton State College, which is now The College of New Jersey in Trenton, New
Jersey. Lived in the dorm for one year and then moved just across the Delaware River into an
apartment for the first time. Yeah, Mm [grimaces] Cooking for myself, cleaning for myself, all
that other stuff.
03:29 (MO): [Laughs]
03:30 (KM): Lived there in Morrisville, Pennsylvania. Ended up staying in Morrisville,
Pennsylvania ‘cause even after I graduated from college, I got a teaching job right there. So, I
didn’t have to go very far. While in college, got married, had my son – who’s now 51 years old –
in 1971. Then [dental click] stayed there, [dental click] finished my baccalaureate degree,
became a police officer, for a while, [dental click] back in New Jersey in the town next to my
hometown. Then [dental click] moved up to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. While I was a police
officer, I was also going to school, working on my master’s degree. Finished my master’s, then –
04:33 (MO): What did you study?
04:34 (KM): I studied urban education and reading, particularly reading difficulties for ădults.
And that proved out to be something that had a much larger impact on what I ended up doing
later in life than I ever thought it would. I worked in elementary schools – at all grade levels –
high schools, junior highs. All that while workin’ my master’s then like I said, moved to
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania [dental click] to work on my doctorate degree. After a year of just
being a student, I actually got involved with another school district in Easton, Pennsylvania. Did
that for another year, and then all of a sudden Bethlehem ISD called me and asked me if I would
come over and be their coordinator of their Reading/Language Arts program for the district –
which I did. My daughter – my oldest daughter – was born while there in ’76. Then things started
to change, the biggest employer in town, Bethlehem Steel, started to have financial difficulty.
[Dental click] Right now, Bethlehem Steel is no more, alright? It had a seven-mile-long steel
making plant, completely gone. Yeah, amazing. So, I saw what was happening with enrollment
[at Bethlehem ISD]. I was also teaching at Moravian College – small, small school – and it was
clear that their enrollment was going down and so their faculty members would be diminishing
as well. So, I worked in West Virginia [dental click] at a community college and also taught for a
state college and also for West Virginia University. And then, it became clear that opportunities
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were West. I had a brother-in-law, at the time, and his wife had moved to Arizona a few years
earlier. They invited us [Mooney’s family] to come out in the summer – that’s stupid, why would
you go to Arizona in the summer?
07:03 (MO): [Laughs]
07:04 (KM): Where, y’know, at 10 o’clock at night it’s still 110 degrees [Fahrenheit].
07:08 (MO): Jeez. [as in shock]
07:09 (KM): Y’know? But we went out [dental click] and saw what the opportunities were,
knowing what the economic issues were going to be in Pennsylvania, where we had a house and
interest rates were 18%.
07:25 (MO): Yes sir.
07:26 (KM): We were very fortunate. A couple days just before we were scheduled to leave for
Arizona, we sold our home. So, went out to Arizona. [Dental click] Went back to teaching high
school and coaching girls’ cross country and track. Alright? [Dental click] Did that and then I
noticed that Arizona State was having some difficulty with their student athletes. They weren’t
taking care of their academics like they should. So, I went over, and I volunteered to tutor during
the summers. I said, “I’ve got some time. I’m a schoolteacher. I’ve got some time in the summer,
I can do it”. I was still teaching summer school for the school district but that was only in the
mornings. So, anyway, so I made that offer to the folks at Arizona State. And they said, “No,
we’ll pay you”. I said, “Oh! Okay, [chuckles] that’s fine”.
08:26 (MO): Wow. [chuckles]
08:28 (KM): So, I was there. I was doing the basic things – going back to my master’s work –
reading, and education, and urban education and realizing that a lot of the football players,
especially, and basketball players and baseball players that Arizona State was getting were from
the urban areas of California. Many of them had the issues that I had been trained through my
work in doing. I should probably mention, that while I was working on my doctorate degree, for
a year, I also became the Coordinator of Education for the correctional institutions of
Pennsylvania.
09:16 (MO): Oh.
09:17 (KM): There’s many stories there.
09:19 (MO): [Chuckles]
09:21 (KM): We don’t have enough time in a coupla days to go through all those.
09:23 (MO): Right [chuckles].
09:26 (KM): Anyway, I’m at Arizona State and they got in trouble with the NCAA [National
Collegiate Athletic Association]. I started examining what the issues were. All of a sudden, I get
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a visit from the football coach. He comes barging in – I’ve got a study hall going on with football
players – and he says, “I wanna know whatch’er doin’”. I said, “What?”. He says, “I wanna
know what you’re doin’”. I said, “Is there a problem?”. He said, “Well, uh, apparently, you’re
doin’ somethin’ because I’ve got at least three or four guys who I didn’t think were gonna be
eligible this season and I just found out they’re eligible.”
10:12 (MO): [Chuckles]
10:14 (KM): I said, “Well, I’m teaching them how to read a textbook.” I said, “In some cases, I
had to tell them to take the shrink-wrap off the textbook. I’m teaching them how to take notes.
I’m teaching them what to look for – how to use a textbook – so that they can actually study.
And yeah, some of them are getting decent grades ‘cause they’re not dumb. If they can
understand a football playbook, they can understand what’s goin’ on in a classroom.”
10:40 (MO): Yes sir.
10:42 (KM): “It’s just that nobody really motivated them”. And I said, “If they don’t show up
here, I go over to their dorm and I drag them out over here.” And he goes, “Oh. Oh, great.” Well
the next day, I get a visit from the Athletic Director. He asks the same questions and I tell him
the same thing. He says, “Before you leave, will you come down to my office?”. So, I come
down to his office. And he said, “We wanna hire you full-time”. I said, “I’m sorry I can’t do
that.” I said, “I’ve already committed, I’m the coach for girls’ cross country and track at Mesa
High School.” I said, “But now, if you find somebody else, great. But if you decide you want
me, I’ll get things set-up on a part-time basis in the evenings, come-in in the evenings and do
study halls and that sort of thing. By the time next June rolls around, I’ll have the program all up
and running.” Well, they accepted the offer. So, I ended up doing that and also ended up doing,
‘cause of my work with the Athletic Department and NCAA issues, got a bit of a reputation for
being able to get schools back on the right track.
12:01 (MO): That’s awesome.
12:02 (KM): 1989 comes up, and Texas A&M is having some serious issues with the NCAA. In
1987, SMU [Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas] got the death penalty for all the
recruiting violations they did. They completely shutdown football. Alright? They could not have
any football games. The football program was done. Alright? Yeah, Mmhmm [as in yes]. So,
there was concern, here, that the same thing would happen to Texas A&M.
12:35 (MO): Yes sir.
12:38 (KM): And there was justification for that concern. So, anyway, I got invited in early July
of ’89 to visit here. I thought it was gonna be more a consultant’s kind of role. The Athletic
Director, John David Crow, was, at that time, the only Heisman Trophy winner for A&M – he
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was the Athletic Director. So, we met over a period of two days – I met with faculty and such. I
headed back to Easterwood Airport after the visit. While I’m over at Easterwood Airport – it
wasn’t the terminal that they have now, it was just a little garage, alright?
13:18 (MO): [Chuckles]
13:19 (KM): Yeah, it was really small. The phone rings and the fella at the counter says, “Dr.
Mooney, there’s a call for you.” And I said, “Okay.” Well, it’s John David Crow and he asks me,
he said “Y’know, we liked what we heard from you and all. Would you consider comin’ here
full-time?” I said, “Well, John David, I don’t think so.” And he said, “Why not?” I said, “It’s not
all about football.” I said, “I also discovered, and I know of issues that are about to hit Texas
A&M ‘cause you’re gonna be sued by the Women’s Sports Foundation because you are not
meeting Title IX requirements, badly.”
14:07 (MO): I was not aware of that.
14:07 (KM): Yeah, and so he said, “Well, what do we have to do?” I said, “Well, there’s a
number of things you have to do but take a look at the recent decision between Temple
University and the Supreme Court and you’ll see what the Supreme Court told Temple they have
to do” I said that “The President of the Women’s Sports Foundation is Donna Lopiano. She is
also the Athletic Director for women’s sports at the University of Texas in Austin and she has
Texas A&M in her crosshairs.” And he goes, “Ugh.” Now, I said, “Look, you can just take my
decision to not come there, and we can leave it at that.” I said, “Or, I know you’re going to go to
the National Association of Athletic Directors meeting that’s going to be in Denver. Find the
Athletic Director for Temple. Ask him what it was like and what they have to do now.” He’s,
“Alright.” Sure enough, late in the morning the next day, he calls me. That previous evening, he
had met the [Athletic] Director of Temple – he’d sought him out, sat down to talk to him. John
David had a little bit of a birth defect where his mouth drooped on one side, so he [in an
impression of John David Crow] ‘kinda talked like this’.
15:36 (MO): Yes sir.
15:37 (KM): Alright? I mean throw in the ‘Texas twang’ and –
15:40 (MO): [Laughs]
15:41 (KM): [In a Texas twang accent] ‘Everything else and it sounds like this’. Alright? So, he
gets on the phone, and he says, [in an impression of John David Crow] “Karl, I met with the
director of Temple, an’ he told me all the crap that they have to do.” I said, “Yeah, I know.” He
said, “Do we have to do it all?” And I said, “Well John David, that’s up to you, but Temple’s
being told they have to do it all and in short order.” And he says, “[whispers indiscernible]. What
if we do –“ and he gives me a short list. And I said, “John David, that’s not gonna be enough.”
And he says, “Would you come here if we did just that?” I said, “John David, I’m not gonna
come.”
16:21 (MO): [Chuckles]
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16:22 (KM): I said, “I’ve got a daughter whose gonna be in high school pretty soon. She’s a
basketball player.” I said, “That would be two-faced of me.”
16:33 (MO): Yes sir. [emphatically]
16:34 (KM): So, he goes, “Well alright, then.” And we hang up and I figure okay, that’s it,
we’re done.
16:40 (MO): Mhmm.
16:42 (KM): Later than night, he calls me again. [In an impression of John David Crow] [Goes,]
“Karl, alright. If we do all these things, how fast do we have to do ‘em?” I said, “John David,
you don’t have to do ‘em all at once, but you do have to create a plan, that’s a reasonable plan.
You have to address the things that are most glaring, right away.” So, he said, “Can you make up
a list?” I said, “Yes sir, I can. I can go right to the Supreme Court decision and just duplicate it.”
[John David Crow says] “Alright then. So does that mean you’re gonna come?” I said, “When do
you need me?” He said, “How soon can you get here? NCAA’s rentin’ rooms by the month at
the Hilton.” And I said, “Alright.” I said, “I’ll be there in two weeks.”
17:33 (MO): Wow.
17:34 (KM): So, I arrived here on July 28th of 1989. [Laughs]
17:41 (MO): And then you told me a little about, and you can talk about it again if you’d like,
your family was still in Arizona –?
17:49 (KM): They were still here, except my son came with me. He stayed with me for a year
and then he went back to a community college that he was familiar with in Arizona. Turned out
to be a great move for him because he got his academics completely organized and found a
professor who was wonderful, got some wonderful opportunities with Senator DeConcini [U.S.
Senator Dennis DeConcini] and others. Y’know and then, a year later, my wife at the time came
here. She was here for two years but then, for reasons I won’t go into, she chose to go back to
Arizona.
18:36 (MO): Yes sir.
18:38 (KM): [Dental click] But my daughter stayed with me. So, anyway. Alright. Let’s keep
goin’. The thing about my campaign was – and it carried on into my time as mayor – I did not
want to be the person who simply sent out flyers, who got on TV. It wasn’t gonna be all about
flash and it couldn’t be about money because I just didn’t have that much money. I did not want
to be beholding to people who gave me money, alright, to support my campaign, unless they did
so with a very clear understanding that this isn’t buying a vote, this isn’t buying my support for
something that you might come up with, whether you’re a developer or whoever you might be –
a lawyer, whoever. Alright, so I didn’t raise all that much money. Instead, I went an’ used my
own money an’ borrowed some money from creditors to be able to pay my campaign. I mean,
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my first campaign cost me about 16,000 dollars, which is nothing compared to, for example the
fella who won the mayor seat for Bryan spent just under $100,000.
19:55 (MO): Oh, wow.
19:57 (KM): Yeah.
19:58 (MO): You networked and budgeted well. [Laughs]
20:00 (KM): Yeah. So, what I chose to do was I said, okay, I’m gonna print up cards that say
what I believe in and that kind of thing, but I’m gonna walk. [Dental click] And Mayor Nichols
[John Nichols] would say this if he were here, he would say, “Karl Mooney worked harder at his
election that I did”, because I walked to over 8,000 homes.
20:31 (MO): Wow [whispers].
20:33 (KM): Alright. So, put that into a different perspective, when I started my campaign, I
weighed 228 pounds. When I finished, I weighed 194 [pounds] on election night.
20:44 (MO): Wow! [Laughs]
20:47 (KM): [Chuckles] Alright. It’s a great way and I remember just before the election, I was
mowing the lawn or something at home and my shirt was just dripping wet, alright, so I went
into the laundry room, and I peeled off my shirt and my wife came by, and she went, “Oh my
gosh, you don’t have a stomach.”
21:10 (MO): [Laughs]
21:11 (KM): And I said, “Is that a good thing or a bad thing?” She says, “Nooo.” Alright, and
my daughter said, “Daddy has a six-pack!”
[Laughter]
21:21 (KM): And I was like, “Okay, uh…” [laughs] “Now you’ve embarrassed me sufficiently.”
When I became mayor, I started walking in a different neighborhood one Sunday afternoon, each
month. The city was kind enough, they made-up signs and I would identify the route and the city
would go out and put the signs up along the route. So, it got to be really good because people
would look for me or they would plan that Sunday afternoon by where I would be. It also had
some very positive things – one of the things I’ve always done is the third grades in College
Station ISD study local government – they study state government and also federal government,
y’know, okay, who’s the mayor, who’s the governor, who’s the president that kind of thing
alright – but I’d go, and I’d speak to these classes. So, when I was doing a walk in Southwood
Valley there was a boy who went to school there and he was in the group with a coupla of his
friends. So, they came up and they kinda sheepishly asked, “Can we walk with you?” [young boy
voice]. I said, “Absolutely, as long as your parents say it’s okay.” Y’know? They said, “Yeah,
yeah, yeah, y’know, parents said it was good.” “Okay, alright, fine. Alright, we’re gonna stay on
the streets, stay on the sidewalks, alright. All that kind of thing.” We finished the walk and I had
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parked my car at Southwood Valley Elementary and one little boy came up and he said, “Can I
show you somethin’?” I said, “Sure.” So, he led me over to a section of sidewalk, that the
sidewalk had sunken down. Alright, and you could see it was muddy and not hard to imagine,
okay, water would settle there, and it would get slippery. He described it – the situation. So, I’ve
always carried my cellphone – I took pictures of it and that sort of thing. By seven o’clock that
night, it was to our Public Works Department. [Dental click] And because it’s at a school,
Monday, Public Works was out there. They picked up the two sections of sidewalk, alright, filled
it in, put a form in, poured concrete over. By Wednesday, it was all done. So, I made a point of
going back to the school and asking the principal if I could meet with the young man. She said,
“Oh, of course.” I asked her, “Did you see the work?” She said, “Well, I wasn’t sure what they
were doing but then I went out and I saw they were repairing the sidewalk.” I explained what he
[the young student] has done. She said, “Oh my gosh, that is wonderful.” So, I have used that
story over and over again. When you think that there’s nothing you can do, I said “yeah, you can
pick up the trash that you see – as long as it’s not gonna be dangerous for you – broken glass or
something like that.” But other than that, I tell them this story. The teachers love it because it’s
like, “Whoa, do you know what you just did? You just empowered these kids to thinking they
can really make a difference in their community.”
24:47 (MO): Yes.
24:48 (KM): Y’know. So, that’s been good – that kind of thing. The other thing is people here
would say, “Oh my gosh, you go to everything.” And sometimes my wife would say that too –
“You go to everything.” Y’know, the thing is, for the organizers of the event and the participants
in that event, that is the most important event of the day.
25:17 (MO): Yes sir.
25:18 (KM): And [redact] was like, “Oh.” I said, “Yeah, [indiscernible] you can send the mayor
pro-tem, but he’s not the mayor.” [Chuckles]
25:26 (MO): Yes sir. From the little I’ve heard from other people, and the little I’ve gotten to
talk to you, I can tell you’ve always been very hands-on, and you make a promise to be
somewhere, you’re there [chuckles] even if it’s back-to-back.
25:43 (KM): It’s crazy. I mean I was, y’know, working at the university. I would sometimes
leave here [City Hall] ten o’clock at night [dental click] get up at two – three o’clock [a.m.],
work on university stuff or sometimes read city stuff. I mean, y’know, we’ve had council
meetings where the document is 700 pages long.
26:09 (MO): Whoa [laughs].
26:10 (KM): [Chuckles] Yeah. And even when it’s only 200 or 300 pages long [dental click]
there are ordinances in there that if you don’t understand that ordinance you have to go look that
up and make sure you understand it, make sure what’s being said here is correct. So, it requires a
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lot of time, which is fine. It’s just that a lot of people don’t understand how much time it really
takes to do the job well. And I’m not sayin’ I did it great every single time. I think people
understood if you’re going to come to me with something, first know that I’ve done the research.
So, don’t come up and give me a song and dance or we could use some other words.
27:05 (MO): [Laughs]
27:07 (KM): Because I will know that right off the top. But if you want to have an honest
conversation with me about something, I’ll be more than happy to sit down with you or get on
the phone or whatever. If anything that helped in all of this, is when we started doing the
electronic signatures, because before that started – before COVID – I had to go back and forth,
back and forth. I mean, Tanya would call me, alright, or her predecessor would call me and say,
“Dr. Mooney, I’ve got a document I need you to sign” – or they would say Mayor Mooney. So,
I’d have to run over and come back, y’know.
27:52 (MO): Was this your idea? “Maybe you should do electronic signatures” [laughs].
27:56 (KM): [Chuckles] Yeah, well, and then COVID also brought about Zoom [Zoom Video
Communications] and some of the meetings that I would’ve otherwise had to run here [at City
Hall] to see, especially if it was just an individual like Ty Elliott, our auditor. The last year,
probably, I think most of our meetings, except for the audit committee meetings, were by Zoom,
where I could still stay at the university [Texas A&M University], close my door – I’d put up a
sign. My staff knew that, okay, yeah, he’s probably doing city stuff. [Chuckles]
28:35 (MO): What interested you in running for mayor in the first place?
28:40 (KM): Well first, I never planned on being a mayor, okay. Although, when I was six years
old, I walked to school – I won’t say uphill both ways – but I walked to school. I always walked
by this one house. It was not a big house, but it had a nice white picket fence – flowers – and the
gentlemen who lived there was often outside keeping it looking nice. One day I walked by him–
walked by the yard – he was outside, and I commented on his flowers. I said, “Sir, your flowers
are really pretty.” He stopped what he was doing, and he came over, talked to me a little bit, and
the next time I walked by and saw him, he said, “Hey Karl, how’re you doin’?” y’know. And we
would chit-chat a little bit, y’know, not a lot. He’d say, “How’s school goin’?” y’know, “What
are you doin’ in school these days? What’d you do today?” That kind of thing. He was just very
kind. Okay, we had a big round table in our house. I had a brother and two sisters and my
parents. Y’know, we always made time for dinner [dental click] cause dinner was when shared
what was goin’ on in your life, y’know. My dad asked me, he said, “Your mother said you were
a little slow in gettin’ home.” I said, “Well, yeah, maybe.” I said, “I was talkin’ to somebody.”
[In his father’s voice] “Well, who’d you talk to?” [Karl said] “His name is Mr. Exarhos.” My dad
said, “Mr. Exarhos? Pierre Exarhos?!” I said, “I don’t know what his first name is. I know his
name is Mr. Exharos.” He said, “Where does he live?” I said, “Well, y’know, he’s right there on
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Ocean Avenue, as I come on the other side of the street from school, it’s that house with the
white picket fence.” He said, “You’re talking to Mr. Exharos?” I said, “Yeah [sheepishly]” He
said, “Do you know who he is?” I said, “He’s Mr. Exharos.” He said, “Karl, he’s the mayor.”
31:18 (MO): [Laughs]
31:19 (KM): [Chuckles] He [Mooney’s father] said, “How often do you do this?” I said, “Well,
two – three – maybe four times a week, cause he’s always outside in the afternoon when it’s
nice.” He goes, [scoffing chuckle], he says, “You’re talkin’ to the mayor.”
[Chuckles]
31:36 (KM): But that stuck with me.
31:38 (MO): Yes.
31:40 (KM): That stuck with me. I mean, even just to recall that name, it’s not a name that just
kinda – like ‘Smith’ or something – that just –
31:49 (MO): You forget about.
31:50 (KM): Yeah, yeah, yeah [in agreeance]. E-X-H-A-R-O-S, y’know? Somebody else asked
me that kind of question, y’know, not too long ago. I told them that story. So, I’ve always
thought of that. I always thought, y’know, you take the time for everybody. It doesn’t matter who
they are, what age they are, but you take the time. Reverend Warren in a book called [The]
Purpose Driven Life – Rick Warren is a pastor out in California, he wrote the book, it was very
popular a number of years ago now – in chapter 4 of the book, it says, “y’know, when people are
about to breath their last, when they know their days are numbered, they don’t ask for their
trophies, they don’t ask for their medals or the awards or any of the accolades. All they want is
the time of the people who love them.” So, I’ve always thought about that. Y’know, it was never
sent – the message was never sent to me faster or more hard than when my wife passed away.
And to this day, I am so glad that I had the habit, whether she was awake or not, before I would
leave the house, I would go over, kiss her on the cheek or forehead, and tell her I love her.
33:29 (MO): Yes sir.
33:30 (KM): Y’know? Had I not done that, oh my goodness, I probably woulda been beatin’
myself up. I was beatin’ myself up enough as it was. That was tough. So, it’s these little things
that happen throughout your life and sometimes we just pfff – discard them – but if we take them
as moments for teaching and learning and we try to incorporate them into our daily lives, I think
we become much richer for it.
34:08 (MO): Yes sir.
34:09 (KM): So. I’m getting too philosophical for ya. I’m not even touching on these questions.
34:13 (MO): No, no. You’re answering more questions than I’ve even asked.
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[Laughter]
34:18 (MO): Definitely, y’know, something I wanna talk about is words that you would pass on
to people that may be in your position in the future. So.
34:31 (KM): Well, obviously, listen to everyone. Make sure you accommodate – within reason –
everyone. Y’know, I’ve been pushin’ for a YMCA here for 12 years. And some people say,
“Why the YMCA?” Well, obviously, it’s got the rec programs, it’s got senior programs, it’s got
swim programs, it’s got all kinds of things and that’s all well and good, but one of the most
attractive things, I think for me, about the YMCA is they do not turn anyone away. Yes, it’s
“Young Men’s Christian Association” but yet in the newer YMCAs, for example in the women’s
locker room, they have separate small rooms that are locker rooms so that women of the Muslim
faith can come in there and shower, change their clothes, everything else, because their faith tells
them the only person who can see you without clothing is your husband. The other thing is they
have a very robust scholarship program. Y’know, I criticized the City of Bryan recently, before
my time was up as mayor, and I’ve shared this with others since then, when they’ve asked me,
again, “Why are you championing the YMCA. You’re done with being mayor, you could just
simply shwoo – fade away into the sunset.” And I said, “No.” I said, “Bryan opened this new
Legends Event Center. They’re charging 5 dollars for a day-pass. There is a significant portion
of the population in Bryan who can’t come near to affording 5 dollars a day.”
36:34 (MO): Yes sir.
36:36 (KM): Whatever program I would help bring to College Station, I wanna make sure that
every single person, whether it be a senior who’s on a fixed income or a little boy or girl whose
parents are barely gettin’ by, that they can come and they can get engaged and involved and have
their quality of life improved. Y’know, before I came over here, I was running a little bit late
because I was [taps on the table like a keyboard] typing stuff out to the YMCA folks. Y’know,
somebody came by and goes, “Damn, you’ve got passion.” [Laughs] And you have to, y’know, I
mean that’s what this is about. You gotta keep the passion going.
37:27 (MO): Yes sir. I’m glad to hear that you’re bringing a YMCA here –
37:33 (KM): Oh, lots of people are. [Laughs]
37:35 (MO): And your efforts to do that. Yeah, my parents have one where they live, and it has
a community garden. Everything that’s grown there is open to the public – like if they need food.
37:48 (KM): You need vegetables, fruits or whatever, yeah.
37:48 (MO): You need vegetables, like you go in there. Anyone that goes in there and
volunteers gets to take home the goods too.
37:55 (KM): Yeah, no, it makes great sense. Yeah, look what you’re doing. I mean, you’re
helping improve the diet and meals, and just the eating habits, y’know? Instead of eating some
junk, alright, here, y’know, have a strawberry or two or three.
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38:13 (MO): Yes sir. I wanted to back-track just a little bit.
38:17 (KM): Sure.
38:18 (MO): I wanted to ask you about how was your wife and your family involved in your
campaign and your time as mayor.
38:25 (KM): Well [sighs], I told you my first wife, she left us. She had her own reasons for
leaving us. I had friends here in town who my oldest daughter, Nerissa, she was babysitting for
them. They knew that I was single, divorced, available – whichever one of those terms you
wanna use. Not having a mom at home – Nerissa was 14 years old at the time when her mom
decided to leave – she would, sometimes when her babysitting chores were done, she would sit-
down and have a Coke and talk to the lady of the house about some things that a 14-year-old girl
just [makes a sound of discomfort] –
39:21 (MO): [Laughs]
39:22 (KM): Talkin’ about that time of the month or, y’know, those kinds of things.
39:24 (MO): Yeah, felt a little uncomfortable talking –
39:28 (KM): Yeah. Just, it didn’t happen. But they also got talkin’ about me as I found out later
on. Nerissa was worried about me. She was saying, “Dad works. He comes from my basketball
games, he comes home, he makes dinner. He works. And he works long hours. He’s working
long after she [Nerissa] was in bed from home.” All this kind of stuff. Anyway, this friend – this
couple – knew this lady who had lost her husband. A drunk driver had crossed over a highway
and hit her husband head-on. She had a little girl, who at the time of her husband’s death was
only seven months old. That little girl was now about 17 months going on 18 months old.
Because of some of the finances and things of being a widow, she had turned to the husband of
the lady who Nerissa was babysitting for. So, they kind of put their heads together, and they said,
“Karl, whatya doin?” Well, I wasn’t doing anything. I was giving money to St. Joe’s [Saint
Josepth’s Hospital] and some other things. This lady [that Nerissa babysat for] was in charge of
fundraisers for St. Joe’s. She said, “Well, I see you’re giving money to St. Joe’s, and you qualify
to be at one of these big fundraiser things.” I said, “Oh [disgruntledly], I’m not coming.” So, one
of them came and went. Finally, she calls me up one day and I’m sitting in my office over at the
university [Texas A&M University]. I’ve got football players all standing around me and she’s
just harassing me, “C’mon, you gotta go. You’ve gotta go to one of these things. By the way, I
know somebody who would love to go with you.” [Sighs] “No, I just –” She won’t take no for an
answer.
41:40 (MO): [Chuckles]
41:42 (KM): So, I’m thinking, okay, this thing’s going to be on Saturday, it’s now Thursday. It’s
dressy and all this kind of stuff. Probably anybody who’s not prepared for it, especially a
woman, won’t have a dress or anything. So, finally – I’ve got these players who are all kinda
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listening in a little bit and kinda having fun with it at the same time – so, finally, I said, okay,
give it your best shot. Well, she calls me back, and she [the lady Nerissa babysat for] says,
“Okay, I gave her your phone number.” I said, “Okay.” “Here’s her phone number. Call her.”
[Chuckles]
42:28 (KM): It took me three tries before I finally dialed the full number. Finally, I dialed it.
Laura would later say that my response was exactly what she needed to hear, because she hadn’t
dated anybody either since her husband had passed away. I said to her, when I heard her voice, I
said, “Hello, this is Karl Mooney. Are you as nervous about this as I am?”
42:54 (MO): [Laughs]
42:55 (KM): [Chuckles] She said that’s exactly what she needed to hear. So, we ended up – they
had buses come over to Post Oak Mall and took us out to a ranch, big ranch, and they had a big
thing in the barn and all of this. We danced. It was interesting because there was a rumor that
maybe the reason my wife had left us was because I was not heterosexual. Hmmm. No, that
wasn’t the reason. Uh…
[Laughter]
43:27 (KM): After a couple dances, we got some food. We kinda went away from the crowd.
Just sat and talked and got engaged in conversation. Finally, somebody yelled [in a shrill
southern accent], “Hey! Did you come in on the bus? The last bus is about to leave!”
43:48 (MO): [Laughs]
43:49 (KM): It was after midnight.
43:50 (MO): Y’know that’s a good sign if you can talk that long.
[Laughter]
43:52 (KM): Yeah, yeah. So, we got, y’know, we got on the bus. Got back in time and
everything. Started seeing each other. And got married the following April. So, I ended up
adopting Tara. Laura – because of the way her first husband was killed – moved up through the
ranks of Mothers Against Drunk Driving [M.A.D.D.]. She was in charge of it for here in the
Brazos Valley. She eventually became the national president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
She testified before Congress. I mean, she – top notch, alright? So, when I – y’know, we talked
about running for office. First for council – okay, fine council and she kinda pushed me a little
bit to do some things and I was like, “Okay.” But mayor was a whole ‘nother –
44:56 (MO): Ballpark, yeah.
44:56 (KM): Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s a different level. Y’know, I learned how to do Facebook,
y’know videos and that sort of thing.
45:06 (MO): [Laughs]
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45:07 (KM): She would be pushing that. Y’know, we would go to events, and she would walk
into a room, and she would talk to people because she was used to that. I remember one time, I
got interviewed with her, alright, by somebody who was asking me about my candidacy. They
said, “So, what are your chances? Whatdya think your chances are?” Alright. She, right away,
interjected and she said, “WE are in it to win it.” [Chuckles]
45:40 (MO): [Laughs]
45:51 (KM): Alright. [Taps fingers on table] Hmph.
45:48 (MO): That’s so great to have that kind of support system from your family members.
45:52 (KM): Yeah. The night [lunch] before the election – both [current] Mayor Nichols and I
are a part of the College Station Noon Lions Club – and one of his supporters came up to me and
said, “Karl, hey, great job, great campaign, but this just isn’t gonna be your year.” I didn’t say
anything. Laura had done her homework. She knew and she had friends placed at each of the
polling places. So, we knew how many people were coming out and what they were like. John
[Nichols] was ahead when the early voting came out and that’s because its mostly the retired
folks – the blue hairs, grey hairs, or no hairs – who show up.
46:37 (MO): [Laughs]
46:38 (KM): Alright, then they start counting the votes for the day. Well, I jump up. Alright,
next thing you know I’m ahead again. The reason for the sadness there, I remember when the
radio and TV station came out and announced that I was the winner. One of the best hugs, we
[Karl and Laura] ever shared was then.
47:12 (MO): Yeah.
47:15 (KM): Sorry I’m doin’ this to ya too much.
47:16 (MO): No, no. Don’t be at all. I don’t expect this to be easy and I expect it to be emotional
because, y’know, it comes with the job and just oral histories in general, it brings out –
47:37 (KM): [Laughs] Yeah, so anyways, so yeah, she was supportive. I was thinking of not
running for a second term for a little while because it was just so time-consuming, and it was
starting to take a physical toll. Y’know, I mean, phew. Just no sleep, y’know, eating irregularly –
just tryin’ to get it all done and to do a good job at it. Y’know, she encouraged me, and I kept
going. Her time as national president of M.A.D.D. was over and she was now working for the
Texas Transportation Institute, alright. I happened to be asked to come down to the Texas
Municipal League and speak. So, I was down there speaking the afternoon of October 10th. The
conference was gonna end on the 11th at noon. Y’know, usually when you go to a conference, the
last day is kinda like, Oh, jeez, Everybody’s –
48:51 (MO): Done. [Laughs]
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48:52 (KM): Yeah, we’re done, yeah. So, Bryan Woods [City Manager of College Station] and
the rest of the folks from College Station, we all went out to dinner together. Came back just in
time for the Astros to begin a World Series game. It got to be around 8:30 [p.m.] and José Altuve
and Brantley [Michael Brantley] both hit back-to-back home runs. Oh! So, I pick up my phone
and I said [text], “Altuve and Brantley!!” and I send it to Laura [taps hands on table] expecting
that she’s gonna reply back. No reply. I said, What? That’s strange. She would’ve replied. She
would’ve had the game on in every room. So, I look at my ring cameras because we had had a
few decisions made here that I had to make – one thing led to another, and it was a couple people
threatened me. So, the police came over, checked out my house and they said, “You don’t have
any cameras. You gotta have cameras.” So, okay, I got cameras. So, I look at my ring cameras –
okay, there she is about five o’clock, she comes home, she’s walking around the house [taps
hands on table] – alright. Alright, so why isn’t she – and just as I’m thinking it out, my phone
rings and it's my youngest daughter, Tara. She said, “Dad.” She said, “Sit down.” I said, “What?
What? What?” She said, “Dad, sit down.” I said, “Well, hold on then.” [Knocks on table] There’s
a knock on my hotel door. It’s Mr. Woods [Bryan Woods] and Mayor Nichols [John Nichols]. I
look through the peephole and I’m like, “What the heck? Why would the two of them be comin’
up? I’m tryna pack. I wanna be able to come home because we’re [Texas A&M] gonna play
Alabama on Saturday. We’ve got a house-full that we’re gonna have. C’mon.” Alright. So, I
open the door and I go back, pick up my phone again and I said, “Tara, what?” I said, “I’ve got
Mr. Woods and [taps hands on table] Mr. Nichols at my door.” She said, “Dad, Mom’s gone.” I
said, “Where’d she go?” She said, “No, Dad, Mom’s gone.” I said, “Do you mean dead?” She
said, “Yeah, Mom’s gone. She’s dead.” Oh my gosh. I can’t even begin to describe – I mean, it’s
just like whooo [whirlwind noise]. Must be what people feel like when a tornado comes through
their house. I go to the door and Mayor Nichols and Mr. Woods have described the look on my
face at that point. They said that is not something they ever want to see again. They had already
told the desk downstairs I’m checking out and all of that. I had driven the city Tahoe that the
mayor uses down there, they figured out how that going to get back and all that. So, they drove
me back here. So, here I am, not the following Wednesday but the Wednesday after, I’m
scheduled to be on the radio at WTAW. The first thing the radio host says to me, says, “So, now
that you wife has passed away, are you going to resign?”
52:58 (MO): Oh my god.
53:03 (KM): [Dental click] Y’know, it’s a good thing there was space between he and I.
53:08 (MO): Yes.
53:13 (KM): I just kinda bit my lip, kinda somehow got through the interview. When we got off
the air, I said, “Scott, you didn’t have to do that.” And walked away. Yeah, so, Laura was very
supportive. Years, a few years later – there’s Mayor Nichols [John Nichols walks into the City
Secretary’s Office] – a few years later I was [laughs]
[Laughter]
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53:56 (KM): A few years later, I was – finally went back to church. As I’m walking out of
church, a lady comes up [taps on table] taps me on the shoulder and says “How’ya doin’?” I look
at her and I’m thinking, I know this lady, but I just don’t remember who she is. Alright, she says,
“How’ya doin’?” I lied. I said, “I’m doin’ okay.” She said, “Well, y’know, I see you sittin’ over
there by yourself.” She said, “If you’d ever like to, I’m always over here on the left side.” “Okay,
thank you.” So, I walk out to my truck and I’m sittin’ in the truck, and she walks by headed for
her car or at least that’s what I assumed. I’m lookin’ at her, lookin’ at her and I’m like, “Wait a
minute. Could that be Tara’s fourth grade teacher?” That was 20-some years ago.
55:00 (MO): Yeah.
55:02 (KM): Alright. Y’know, ‘cause you’re nine or ten years old, typically, when you’re in
fourth grade.
55:09 (MO): And good memory.
55:11 (KM): Yeah, so anyway, so I get home and I call Tara and I said, “Tara, I think your
fourth-grade teacher – what was her name?” She said, “Mrs. Shimeck.” “Yeah, Mrs. Shimeck
just invited me to sit by her in church.” I said, “Y’know, I thought she’s married ‘cause ‘Mrs.’
Shimeck is how I knew her.” She said, “Dad, there’s way to find out.” So, about ten minutes
later, she calls me back.” She said, “Dad, she teaches at Rock Prairie Elementary. And Dad, I
know her sons and you know one of her sons because you taught him at A&M.” I go, “Oh.” She
said, “Dad, she’s been divorced for at least 12 years.” I said, “Oh.” So, she says to me then, “So,
whatya gonna do about it?” Uh.
56:15 (MO): [Chuckles]
56:18 (KM): It took me a coupla weeks. Finally, I called Rock Prairie Elementary and left a
message. She called me back. I said, “Does your offer still stand?” She said, “Yes.” So, we pull
up to church. There’s a car in the space where I normally park. I get out. She gets out and she
walks over to me and says, “Do you mind if we walk in together?” “Okay. [uncertainly]” So, we
walk in together and just being with somebody was nice. So, towards the end of the service, I
asked her, I said, “Would you like to go for coffee?” She said, “I don’t drink coffee.” I’m
thinking, Oh [chuckles] Karl, you read way more into this than she ever intended. You fool.
57:14 (MO): [Chuckles]
57:16 (KM): But then, right away, she turns around and she says, “But I do like breakfast.” I
said, “Oh. Okay.” So, I rattle off a couple breakfast places. She chooses the Stella out here on
Highway 6.
57:27 (MO): I like that place, yes.
57:28 (KM): Yeah. So, we go out there and I know the owner out there and everything. We’re
sittin’ at one of the picnic tables outside, alright, and we’re talkin’ and havin’ breakfast and that
sort of thing. What seemed like all of a sudden, the hostess comes up and taps me on the
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shoulder. She says, “Uh, excuse me. Mr. Mayor, we have a line going out the door. D’you think
you could give up the table?” I look at my clock. Well, we out of church just after nine o’clock,
it's now after 12 o’clock.
58:02 (MO): Oh, wow.
58:03 (KM): [Laughs] So, anyway, long story short, we end up – sons are thrilled that mom’s
married again. Matter of fact the first time she told ‘em she was gonna cook dinner for me, one
son said we don’t want to scare him away.
[Laughter]
58:20 (KM): So, we’ve been married, now, April 7th will be our second anniversary.
58:28 (MO): Congratulations.
58:30 (KM): Yeah, so, it’s a lesson. As hard as it was to lose Laura, you gotta try as hard as you
can to pick up the pieces – and by that, I mean pieces. Just like anytime you’re trying to
reassemble something that’s been broken and fallen into pieces, there’ll always be a piece that’s
missing.
59:05 (MO): What is your wife’s name?
59:07 (KM): This is Beverly.
59:08 (MO): Beverly?
59:09 (KM): Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Beverly stands about 5’3”. [Laughs]
59:16 (MO): [Laughs] That’s how tall I am. [Laughs]
59:18 (KM): Oh okay. Yeah, yeah.
59:19 (MO): Does she still teach?
59:21 (KM): She does! Yeah, yeah. She pulled a Tom Brady though. Y’know what I mean by a
“Tom Brady”?
59:26 (MO): No sir [chuckles].
59:28 (KM): Okay, he’s a football player.
59:29 (MO): Did she like go back to teaching?
59:32 (KM): Yeah, he retired and then went back, alright? She was teaching at Rock Prairie and
she retired from College Station ISD on a Friday morning at 11 o’clock. At about – at a little
after noon, she got a call from the headmaster at Brazos Christian. She knew some teachers at
Brazos Christian. They’re friends and that sort of thing. So, he said, “Oh, I heard you’re retiring
from College Station ISD. Would you have some time to come over and talk to me?” She said,
“Oh, okay.” He said, “How about this afternoon?” “Oh. Hm. Okay.” So, she goes over there and
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she’s having a conversation with him and they’re just walking through the hall, and they walk
into another classroom and there’s a bunch of teachers she knows in the elementary school
portion of it. They’re all talking, and they said, “Y’know, we’re short a Kindergarten teacher for
next year.” So, they’re just talkin’ and she says, “So, when are you gonna make a decision on
who you’re gonna hire.” And they laugh. The headmaster’s standing in the doorway. One of the
ladies points to him and he goes [laughs] [indiscernible]. So, by two o’clock in the afternoon, she
had a new job.
[Laughter]
1:00:50 (KM): So, she’s teaching Kindergarten.
1:00:51 (MO): That’s awesome.
1:00:52 (KM): And she loves it. She only has 11 students.
1:00:55 (MO): That’s nice.
1:00:55 (KM): Oh yeah. Yeah.
1:00:57 (MO): Especially with little ones.
1:00:58 (KM): Kindergarten’s a lot different, though, than third grade.
1:01:00 (MO): Yes.
1:01:01 (KM): Because third graders sit at their desks, alright, and they go off to art, they go off
to P.E., they go off to music, y’know.
1:01:09 (MO): Kindergarten you go with them to – yeah.
1:01:11 (KM): Oh yeah, you’re with them a hundred percent of the time.
1:01:14 (MO): Yes, yes sir. Do you feel like that you’ve gotten to keep your life private even
with being mayor?
1:01:29 (KM): For the most part.
1:01:31 (MO): That’s nice.
1:01:33 (KM): There were times, Ms. Smith [Tanya Smith] could tell you, especially after Laura
passed, it was tough. When you lose a spouse – and I don’t think my situation is unusual – but
when you lose a spouse you get to a point where you’re hopin’ you can get through a day
without crying. And then, okay, I got through yesterday. Then all of a sudden – Facebook. Oh
gosh, Facebook is not my friend.
1:02:10 (MO): [Chuckles] I don’t even do it.
1:02:12 (KM): “Remember this six years ago!” [Taps on table] “Here you are smiling, happy.”
Alright. The thing that added to Laura’s passing, was four days before Laura passed, we were at
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my mother’s funeral. I’m the oldest in the family. So, coming back on the plane Laura said,
“Okay, you’re the patriarch now.” Alright. “But let’s not waste time, let’s start planning.” We
had some trips already [taps on table] planned out – at least starting to plan the trips. So, when
that gets – whooo – the rug literally gets pulled out from under you. Y’know, there’s a picture
that appeared in the Eagle here, I was with Mayor Nichols and I as he was smiling and I’m not
smiling. Somebody – it was at the Lion’s Club – and they were [taps on table] thanking me for
my years of serving the city and all of that. They put that picture up and they kinda made a little
fun of it, not really knowing what was going on in my mind at the time. The MC [Master of
Ceremonies] said, “Well, look at this the incoming mayor’s smiling and the outgoing mayor’s
not smiling. That’ll probably reversed in four years.” Haha, okay. Okay guys, you don’t mean
anything bad by it. But I went up to the MC later on, and I said, “Tom, let me tell ya, the reason
for that look on my face was because I’m looking out into the audience, and I couldn’t see
Laura.”
1:04:05 (MO): Yeah [somberly].
1:04:10 (KM): Not the way I’d planned it to be, but it is the way it is.
1:04:16 (MO): Well, I would like to hear some of your most memorable moments as being
mayor and during your candidacy – or during your campaign. I heard that you were Santa and
she [Laura] was Mrs. Claus. Things like that.
1:04:33 (KM): [Chuckles] Oh yeah. We did that, didn’t we. Yeah, we did the Santa and Mrs.
Claus one year – I have a picture in my phone just to prove it. I was probably the skinniest Santa
that they’ve ever seen.
1:04:45 (MO): [Laughs]
1:04:47 (KM): Yeah, no, we did that. Doing the Blue Santa stuff with the police department was
always fun. Y’know, Habitat for Humanity things were always enjoyable. Getting the police
station built. When I was running, there was a fella – who’s now a sergeant in the police
department – who kinda got under my skin a little bit because he was like, “Well, they’re never
gonna do anything.” I had promised in my campaign promises that we would build a new police
headquarters ‘cause I knew. Laura was very active with the Citizens Police Academy here
because of her work against drunk driving and all of that. So, I had been in the police building
many, many times – not just to help her with those kind of events, just in my role as mayor. We
would have a robbery or something, and I would be sitting with the police chief – who was Jeff
Capps [Jeffrey Capps] at the time – and we would go through, “Okay, this is what happened”. Or
when we had the shooting over here [2012] and Brian Bachmann [Brazos County Sheriff’s
Deputy and Precinct 1 Constable] was killed. Y’know, all of that. Getting that built – first
approved, redesigned, because it was supposed to originally be very a modern-looking building –
kinda like Fire Station 6 over here on University. I said, “Y’know what. If we haven’t learned
one thing about the old city hall – when it was built in 1963, everybody was like, “Oh look how
modern it looks! Isn’t this neat!”
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1:06:45 (MO): [Laughs] Yeah.
1:06:45 (KM): Alright. By the time we turned the corner on the century, people were goin’ like,
“What were they thinking? That is the ugliest building in town.” Alright. It also proved to have
some architectural flaws, alright, ‘cause it leaked very badly. So, we said, “No. We’re going to
create a committee of Council members and we’re gonna go to more traditional designs.” So
that’s why this building looks like it does and why the police headquarters looks like it does. So,
getting those two buildings done, and that’s really, I think if there’s anything about my time as
mayor, I think there’s more things that have happened that have a lasting impact on the city.
From simple things like going to all LED lighting – which saves us a ton of money now every
year – to the changes we had to make in the water treatment plant, sewage treatment as well, the
new water tower, more parks, purchasing that 102 acres on the westside that’s just gonna be a
natural park – no ball fields, nothing, alright – just parking space, probably some restrooms and
trails. So, 50 years from now, folks who live around here are gonna be able to go to that park and
go, “Ah, this is the way Texas was originally.”
1:08:24 (MO): [Chuckles]
1:08:24 (KM): Alright, “These are the kind of trees that they had there.” To me, that’s huge.
That’s great for the city.
1:08:32 (MO): Instead of tearing it down and planting new trees. [Chuckles].
1:08:35 (KM): Yeah, yeah, exactly. A lot of them are trees that aren’t even native to here. That
kind of thing. The growth – trying to manage the growth the best we could – I think was
important. Y’know, improvements in our fire equipment. Nobody foresaw having a 10 or now
22-story high-rise over here in Northgate. And more are coming, because the university [Texas
A&M] just announced that while they anticipated 56,000 applications for next year, there’re over
60,000 already.
1:09:22 (MO): Oh, wow.
1:09:23 (KM): Yeah. The state has come out and said, “Uh, A&M, you can’t put a cap on your
growth.” We are a land grant institution. Part of being a land grant institution is that you must
respond to your constituency. So as your constituency grows, you must grow. That’s why
investors are putting money into those high-rise dorms, ‘cause they know the growth is going to
continue. Build it now, ‘cause you’ll never get it any cheaper.
1:09:57 (MO): Yes.
1:09:57 (KM): Yeah, so those are things – some of the things the secretary’s office has been
able to do with the digitizing documents – getting us all into the newer things.
1:10:12 (MO): And you got to see that transition?
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1:10:13 (KM): Oh yeah. IT [Information Technology] our fastest growing department, alright,
and probably one of our most challenging departments because everyday somebody is trying to
hack into the city and that can have a disastrous effect.
1:10:31 (MO): Wasn’t there – there was some kind of email that someone was impersonating
you.
1:10:34 (KM): There was. Oh, yeah. Yeah, mhmm [as in confirmation]. Yeah, asking people to
send in money, y’know, to this fake address and all of this. There was more than one time. So,
those kinds of things. Y’know, our communications department, that has changed in a huge way.
I mean, we didn’t have a studio before, alright. Y’know, we certainly weren’t on social media
‘cause that really didn’t exist much at all when I first started being mayor. Alright, so that’s
changed tremendously. Even as we looked at this building and designed this building, the safety
of the council became important. That’s why you have two entrances and two exits behind the
dais now. The dais, itself, is all reinforced with steel. So, if somebody came in and started firing,
the council could get down behind it and literally crawl to an exit and be outside the building,
jump in their cars and get away. There was a case – there was a situation in a city in Wisconsin
where a fella came in and just started – tch-tch-tch-tch [machine gun sound] – killed one council
member, injured others. We had nothing like that in the old building – the only way you could
get out of the council chambers was through a front door.
1:12:13 (MO): Oh.
1:12:14 (KM): Yeah. So, I know that was before your time here, but that was a danger.
1:12:20 (MO): Were there any other events that involved your original goals when you came
into the candidacy?
1:12:30 (KM): Y’know, one I said that the mayor would be more visible. You weren’t only
goin’ to see me when it was election time. And that’s why the ‘Walk with the Mayor’ kicked off.
Y’know, it was funny because I remember several times when people would come up and go
like, “Really? You’re really the mayor?”
1:12:55 (MO): [Laughs]
1:12:56 (KM): I said, “Yeah, I’m really the mayor.” And y’know, they would talk about where
they had lived before or say, “I’ve never known any mayor to do this!” I said, “Well –“ Y’know,
‘cause I did it in the heat of the summer and the cold of the winter. Y’know, now if it was
pourin’ down rain, no, I was smart enough to reschedule or somethin’ like that. I always came
back and did it. So, I made at least three complete loops of the entire city.
1:13:24 (MO): Wow.
1:13:26 (KM): Yeah, and even the students from A&M came and they finally – they heard about
it. I was somewhat neglectful and had not gone to the apartment complexes. Some students wrote
to me and said, “Would you please come to – because we’d like the opportunity?” And so, I did.
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Some of them were like, “Oh, this is so cool. The mayor is here.” [Laughs] Y’know? So, it was
good.
1:13:58 (MO): How do you feel like your time as mayor has impacted the relationship between
the City of College Station and Texas A&M University?
1:14:09 (KM): Well, A&M’s had a lot of turnover, particularly at the president’s level and the
provost level – chancellor has been the same. I think we’ve stabilized some things. I think,
y’know, A&M sometimes used to think that because it’s the big dog, it can bite and nobody’s
gonna tell it no. Well, we had a situation come up, early in my time as mayor, Park West
apartments over here – the big complex, 3400 beds – and the chancellor got the county to make it
property tax exempt even though its privately owned. That’s a lot of money. The city had to go
in and put in new water lines, new sewers. We had to improve the sidewalks and streets all
around it. Alright. So, we had to divert money that was going to be used for some of our other
neighborhood projects to that, that particular year. The chancellor had one of his vice presidents
say something to the papers and the press and in general came out “Ohhh, this is wrong.” Then
the Eagle said, “Mmmm [as in thinking], wait a minute.” [Chuckles] And a couple weeks later
the Eagle put out a story and said, “Noo, Mayor Mooney was right. This should’ve been charged
property tax, because that is money that the city is not getting. Those 3400 beds – even if only
one-third of them, so about 2400 or so students have cars. They’re on our streets. They’re usin’
our sidewalks. They’re up and down throughout the city. There should be property tax collected
from that project.” Since then, like when they built the Brookshire Brothers, we were ready and
said, “Yes, that will be charged property tax.” And they didn’t push back. So, [sighs] sometimes
you have to do that. Now, did it mean I wouldn’t get invited to chancellor parties and that sort of
thing. Absolutely, that’s what it meant. Alright. But I was fine being able to sit in my regular
seats at Kyle Field, watch a football game, and know that what I did was the right thing for the
city.
1:16:59 (MO): Did you feel like it was hard at times, like, did you feel like people thought you
were taking sides at certain times or did the people view it that way?
1:17:08 (KM): Not really, because people knew why I did it, they understood why I did that.
Some of the people, matter’a fact, one of the commissioners who came to me and said, “I’m
sorry Karl.” He said, “I really shouldn’t have voted that way.” He said, “But they were pressurin’
me to.” I said, “Well, y’know, that’s the way it goes.” I said, “Kenny, thanks, but the votes cast.”
That’s the way it went. So, yeah, it’s just tough sometimes. Tough decisions sometimes.
1:17:47 (MO): I had an interesting question. Do you feel that most mayors have valued Texas
A&M’s students as permanent citizens of College Station?
1:17:58 (KM): I don’t think they see students necessarily as permanent, but I think they see the
influence of the student body as being permanent. Alright, because that continues to grow for
one thing. And so, the decisions that are made by the student body, particularly by the Student
Government Association, are things that can have an impact. That’s one of the reasons why
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while I was mayor, we encouraged the student government to always have a representative at our
meetings [Council meetings]. For the most part, they did but sometimes those representatives,
when they first got appointed, they’d show up regularly and then a few months later, oh okay,
y’know, “Sorry I couldn’t make it. I had a test the next day.” “Okay, I get that. See you in two
weeks.” Mmmm [as in uncertainty or disapproval], didn’t show up again. Y’know, lately there
have been some issues come up, where the students have been present at council meetings and in
good number. It’s been interesting, sometimes they don’t fully understand how certain things
work. They think, for example, the voting places at the MSC [Memorial Student Center] on
campus – they thought that the city determines where voting locations occur.
1:19:24 (MO): Oh, okay.
1:19:25 (KM): Alright, and so they’d show up for the Hear Visitors portion of the council
meeting. We can’t respond to anybody that comes up during Hear Visitors, because that item is
not on the agenda. It has to be posted on the agenda for us to be able to talk about it. So, after
that meeting, I contacted the leader of the group, Jessica Williams, and I said, “Jessica, here’s
why we couldn’t talk back.” Have a conversation. She goes, “Oh, okay. Okay.”
1:19:56 (MO): That was nice of you.
1:19:57 (KM): Yeah. And so, she – I said, “Now, here’s the issue though, [claps] you need to go
before the county commissioners because those are the ones that decide where the voting places
are to be.” “Ohh, okay. Okay, okay.” So, eventually, they got before the county commissioners.
The county commissioners turned around and said – I, also, at the meeting where they were there
at Hear Visitors, I said, “I would like to see this on it as an agenda item, so we can talk about it.”
So, they also showed up for that. I was one of those who said, “Hey, y’know, I’ve worked on
campus since 1989, and I have always voted – early voted – at the MSC.” So, some people took
that to heart and the county commissioners, finally, reversed their decision, but not in time to
impact this year’s election [2022]. From now on, the MSC will have early voting and election
day voting and they will probably also use the community room here [at City Hall].
1:21:00 (MO): Very interesting. I did a little research on your background before I went to the
interview. When you first came to Texas A&M, you were a professor too, right?
1:21:13 (KM): Yeah, I taught as well. I taught for the Corps of Cadets.
1:21:17 (MO): Did you foresee yourself running as mayor at that point in time for this [taps
fingernails on table] specific city?
1:21:23 (KM): No. No, I mean, ah, when I came here to visit in July of ’89 [1989], I’d never
been to this part of Texas, so I really didn’t know that much about it. What happened was there
was a GTE [General Telephone & Electronics Corporation], which is now Verizon, was the
telephone provider for Texas A&M, and they had a community relations person by the name of
Bill Irwin. In order to develop good community relations, Bill would often times host a lunch at
his home, alright, over in Southwood Valley. So, we would get invited and being in Athletics,
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“Oh”, y’know, “We can have one of the senior athletic directors here that’d be really good.”
Alright, fine. So, I would get assigned to do that. So, I came over. One day, I’m standing there –
I’m didn’t know a lot of the people at that point – they’re all like, “What the heck is he doing
here?” [Chuckles]
1:22:36 (MO): [Laughs]
1:22:38 (KM): So, they said – they were talking about water and wastewater. Well, when I
worked on my Master’s in Urban Education, I was required to do a minor and I thought, [dental
click] y’know, if I’m doing urban education, it might be good to know something about urban
planning and design. So, I decided, Okay, that’s gonna be my minor. So, I took some courses in
that. So, here they are, they’re talkin’ about water and wastewater. Ugh.
1:23:06 (MO): [Laughs]
1:23:09 (KM): So, I’m listening. I thought, Mmm, y’know what, I know somethin’ about that.
Maybe this’ll be a great way to break the ice. So, I made a few comments. A fella, who I didn’t
know at the time, but it turned out he was Chair of Planning & Zoning Commission. He said to
me, he said, “Where did you get your degree in Urban Planning?” I said, “Well, it’s not really a
degree, it’s just a minor.” He said, “Oh, you apparently know more about this than we do!”
1:23:39 (MO): [Laughs]
1:23:39 (KM): He said, “We have an opening on Planning & Zoning Commission.” He said,
“Will you serve?” Well, the host overheard that, and he said, “Oh yeah. He’ll serve.” So, three
weeks later, I get a call from City Hall, and they said, “You’ve been nominated to be on Planning
& Zoning Commission. Do you accept?” “Okay [with some uncertainty in his voice].”
1:24:01 (MO): [Laughs]
1:24:02 (KM): It was a great way to get to know the city. So, I did that for six years. Within two
years of accepting, I became Chair. So, mmm, so there you go. Then, I left town briefly. Went to
the University of Central Florida. Then A&M called me, after about six years away, and asked
me if I would come back. When I came back, there was a recall effort going on – 2 council
members and the mayor. So, a friend of mine was involved in the College Station Noon Lions
here, Danny said, “Karl, hey, you oughta think about joining the Lions Club. It’s a service
organization. It’s just the kind of stuff that you like doin’.” So, I said, “Oh, okay, fine.” So, I get
back. Well, word gets out that I’m back in town. I’m workin’ at A&M, alright. People said,
“There’s a recall effort goin’ on and there’s also another council seat that’s gonna be vacant. You
should consider running.” So, I’m like, “Ohhh, boy.” So, anyway, so, I ran. First time I ever ran
for anything to be elected to. So, election day comes along and I’m over at Pebble Creek
Elementary ‘cause that was one of the polling places. It’s gettin’ to be around 7 o’clock and
Laura calls me up and says, “Hey, babe you need to get home. You need to shower an’ stuff
because we need to be down at City Hall.” And I was like, “Well, I don’t know if I wanna go.
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What if I lose? I don’t want to be there. Y’know?” She said, “No, no, no. We need to go.” So, I
said, “Okay, okay.”
1:26:09 (MO): [Laughs]
1:26:10 (KM): So, I go home, shower real quick. We get in the car – we live on a cul-de-sac and
it’s on a bit of a hill. So, the stop signs at the bottom of a hill and there’s a cross-street Saint
Andrews, and as were comin’ down the hill, the radio station comes in and says “Okay, we’re
gonna break. We’ve got the results of early voting.” They go through the different places an’
stuff, “And in place three, Karl Mooney leads with 72 percent of the vote.” [Chuckles] And I
went right through the stop sign.
[Laughter]
1:26:51 (MO): That’s awesome.
1:26:53 (KM): That continued on, and I was only on Council for about two years then Mayor
Berry – Nancy Berry – we were at a Texas Municipal League Conference and I was attending
some things and I asked some questions and after that session she pulled me aside. She said,
“Tell me, have you ever thought of being mayor pro-tem?” I said, “Oh, well, yeah I probably
would do that.” She said, “Good.” So, we came back the next council meeting and she nominated
me for mayor pro-tem for two years. Y’know, like I said, having left, come back, people kinda
started saying, “Well, you know what, you should be the mayor.” I started doing things. Plus,
like even some of the events, Nancy wouldn’t go to a lot of events, and she would ask me to go
instead. So, I started to see people and people were like, “Hmm.” and then we had an event
happen. Nancy was at home – she has two small dogs – and she has gates up to prevent the dogs
from going like onto the carpet in the living room and that sort of thing. Alright. She has tile
floors where she doesn’t have carpet. She was stepping over a gate and she came down and
broke her wrist and her elbow. I can’t even imagine the pain that was. She ends up in the
hospital. So, I get a call, “Karl, you’re mayor pro tem. Mayor Berry is in the hospital. She’s on
pain killers. She can’t function, so you’re acting mayor.” Alright. “Okay.”
1:28:59 (MO): How was that experience?
1:29:01 (KM): Well, we have a new city manager, Frank Simpson. David Neely had just given
up – he retired from being city manager. Frank was our associate city manager, so he was
naturally moved up. Frank is 49 years old, alright. So, okay, okay. So, I run the council meeting
and all of this. Eh, okay.
1:29:29 (MO): You’re both kinda new at it.
1:29:30 (KM): Yeah. Yeah. We’re doin’ okay though. Alright. Then Saturday comes along, and
it’s one of those days where you think it’s in spring, but you think Mother Nature has skipped
over spring and went right into the heat of the summer with all the humidity and everything else.
I was out mowin’ the lawn and I was like jeez, goodness gracious. All of a sudden, Laura calls
me, and she says, “Karl, Jeff Capps, police chief’s on the phone. He needs to talk to you right
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away.” “Oh, okay. Is somethin’ goin’ on?” Get on the phone. Jeff Kapps says, “Mayor, our city
manager Frank Simpson just died.” He’d been in his backyard mowing his lawn, came in, sat
down, told his wife he didn’t feel very good. She said, “Well, you didn’t eat or drink anything.”
Says, “I’ll make you something.” So, she goes into the kitchen to start preparin’ him a sandwich
and drink. He goes to sit up and he falls flat on his face dead.
1:30:45 (MO): A heat stroke, or – ?
1:30:46 (KM): Huh?
1:30:47 (MO): Was it a heat stroke?
1:30:48 (KM): Heart attack. So, I said to Jeff Capps, our police chief, “Okay, where is
everybody?” He says, “Well, we’re meeting over here over at the emergency room at the
hospital.” That same emergency room where my daughter had been. So, I get there. I’ll never
forget. I walk in the door, and everybody is looking right at me for direction. Alright. So, I had to
completely change my role in my head. Okay, you’re no longer the mayor pro tem. You’re now
engaged in a crisis, and you’ve got to give direction to people because that’s what they’re
looking for. They are frozen in time. They don’t know what to do, because you don’t expect
somebody who’s 49 years old to suddenly die of a heart attack. So, my wife because of her work
with Mothers Against Drunk Driving and people who had lost a spouse suddenly, she right away
– I said, “Laura, go ahead and help his wife. Take her.” And his wife was like [in a distraught
tone], “I don’t know what to do. I don’t know –” Laura’s like, “I’m here. I’ve been through it. I
will help you and guide you through it.” So, Laura basically took over all of that, ‘cause the other
challenge was they have a child whose autistic, and this was totally confusing to him. So, in the
meantime, I’d go and I’d, “Okay, you do this, you do that, you do this.” Well, couple weeks later
go by, Jeff Capps, still police chief – he’s not deputy city manager – and he said, “That was
pretty good the way you handled things.” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Y’know, what I saw?” I said,
“Yeah.” I said, “Frank died and that.” He said, “No, no, no, no.” I said, “What?” He said, “I saw
the person who’s gonna be our next mayor.”
1:33:22 (MO): Yes sir.
1:33:24 (KM): Y’know, it’s a tough way to get people to think of you in that possibility. I sure
wish it didn’t happen that way, but it did.
1:33:39 (MO): Well, they saw a strong leader and that could stay calm in times of stress.
1:33:42 (KM): Well, that was it. And matter of fact, it’s interesting you mentioned that word
‘calm’. I got a very nice letter written by – signed by all the members of the College Station
Association of Neighborhoods and many of them wrote things [writes on the table with his
finger]. One of the things they said was, “We wanna thank you [pats hands on table] for the calm
way you navigated us through all of these issues, and we’ve had over the years.” They said,
“You’ve maintained the decorum, you maintained civility, and you made sure everyone was
heard.” I think that’s a pretty good legacy, y’know.
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1:34:24 (MO): Yes, yes sir.
1:34:25 (KM): So, yeah.
1:34:28 (MO): On emergencies that you’ve handled and crises –
1:34:32 (KM): Yeah, y’know, we had another emergency where a fella, one of our sanitation
workers, was filling – he was parked on Wellborn Road and he was emptying the trash can into
the back of the garbage truck and a college student who was on his cell phone wasn’t paying
attention, came and slammed right into him. Crushed his hip and his upper legs and he was
rushed to the hospital. I mean, there was a period of time there we weren’t sure he was gonna
make it, but fortunately, he got very good care. The folks here – we’ve had other situations
where somebody’s been hurt or whatever – and the folks here came to learn that when that
happens and you call me, everybody else better get there too, because I’m gonna tell you what
needs to be done. The thing with Frank Simpson, when he passed, that was the steppingstone for
that. Okay, alright, “Karl – Mayor Mooney’s gonna be here. You better get there because you’re
gonna have an assignment.” Yeah, that served as a model for me. It served as a model when I
criticized my own church for not ever coming to my door after my wife passed away. because I
said, y’know, look, I mean, if anything’s said, the kind of respect Laura and I had together, was
on the morning after she’d passed, right at 8 o’clock there was a knock on our front door.
[Knocks on the table] There’s a fire truck in front of our house and the firemen had gotten
together and gotten food from different restaurants and drinks and plates and cups and they just
silently kept walking into the house and putting stuff down. I turned to the assistant fire chief
who was there, and I went to thank him. He just went [hand gesture] and they left. Later on,
somebody told me, they said, “That’s what you did.”
1:37:11 (MO): Yeah.
1:37:13 (KM): So. Sorry I’m gettin’ – Oh, the dike needs a thumb in it right now [idiom for
stopping tears]. Oh, yeah.
1:37:21 (MO): [Chuckles] I’m very thankful that you – that – I feel honored that I get to hear
your stories. I think it reflects of the–
1:37:30 (KM): Well, it doesn’t get to all the questions [chuckles] that you had on the sheet
[laughs].
1:37:33 (MO): No, no. It’s gonna be a wonderful interview. Honestly, a lot of these – I love how
its flowing because it’s natural. It’s not just like, “Okay, on to the next question.”
1:37:45 (KM): Yeah, one after the other, yeah.
1:37:50 (MO): Yeah. I think it reflects both on your impact as mayor but then also the impact
you had on individual city employees and the impact they had on you.
1:38:03 (KM): Mhmm [in agreeance]. Yeah.
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1:38:04 (MO): How did you handle – when the pandemic came into your life too – how did you
handle that? How did that change your candidacy [mayoralty] for you?
1:38:13 (KM): Well, I mean, we were – the pandemic really started to show up in February of
2020.
1:38:21 (MO): I remember it. I had just transferred.
1:38:23 (KM): We started to really start – I mean there were little rumors about some’m’s goin’
on in China back in the fall, but “Oh, don’t worry. No, no. This will be under control.” Then,
“Uh, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. One person has it here. Now thirty. Now a
hundred. Now thousands. Alright, now hundreds of thousands.” And then all the dire, dire
projections of what could happen. I remember, after reading some reports, and thinking, “Oh
crap, we could have a 100,000 people dead here in the Brazos Valley”, because we didn’t know
enough about it.
1:39:09 (MO): Yes sir.
1:39:12 (KM): So, we started to figure out what is it that we’re gonna do. Mayor Nelson and
Judge Peters and I got together along with some people from A&M. We had to think about the
health. We had to think about the economics, y’know. We ended up being on television and
radio every day, except maybe Saturday and Sunday. I mean, y’know, people saw me. Some
people didn’t agree. Some people thought it was all a hoax. I mean, I couldn’t even go into
H-E-B, y’know, without somebody –
1:39:57 (MO): Asking you what’s gonna happen.
1:39:58 (KM): Yeah, well, asking or accosting me. Saying, y’know, “What the – heck.”
[Chuckles] I'm numbing down their words. Y’know, “This is all – You’re just trying to scare
people!” And all of this. “Why are you shutting businesses down?!”
1:40:15 (MO): And they thought it [business/economy shutdowns] was coming from you.
1:40:17 (KM): Yeah, yeah. Y’know, and then I read what I felt was enough information to state
that while wearing masks would not stop COVID, it could certainly slow it down. It might also
prevent people from getting the flu and having the flu and COVID would be a death sentence.
So, I went on the air. Mayor Nelson wouldn’t do it. Judge Peters wouldn’t do it. I went on the air
on KBTX – yeah, mmm – and KAGS and I said, “In the City of College Station, if you are in a
building – a public building, retail, school, whatever – you must wear a mask.” And I concluded
it with, and I went, “And if you refuse to wear a mask, you are being selfish.” Oh my gosh
[chuckles]. Oh my gosh. We got death threats. Alright. It got to where, fortunately H-E-B started
the pickup for groceries because going inside was not smart. Even my wife couldn’t do it, ‘cause
they had seen her enough or enough people knew her. It turned out that, whoa, we don’t have an
outbreak of the flu. Okay, well, hmm, this is working to prevent that. Oh, wait a minute, for as
many people as we have here, yeah, we’ve got 33-percent of the population has COVID, but it’s
not 67-percent. Now, our folks are starting to get inoculated. Alright, what’s goin’ on here? Well,
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these things are apparently working. Well, couple days later, Mayor Nelson and Judge Peters
said, “Okay, yes. Masks.” Alright, then, at least I wasn’t on the hot seat by myself. So, we got
through that. Then, all of a sudden, one day we get a call here that Dr. Birx [Deborah Birx, White
House Coronavirus Response Coordinator], who is President Trump’s leader on trying to fight
COVID, wants to come to College Station and she wants to meet with President Young with the
university and his staff and she wants to meet with me. [Dental click] Okay.
1:43:30 (MO): [Chuckles]
1:43:31 (KM): So, we end up meeting over in the Williams Administration Building [Jack K.
Williams Administration Building] in the president’s offices. Big long table and I’m sitting at
one end of the table and she’s sitting at the other end, alright. She’s going, “Okay, talk to me
about the effort between” – like you were talking about the cooperation between the university
and such. So, we talkin’ about all of that and we said, “Okay, this is how we were able to do it,
alright, because we didn’t go ahead – we just said this is what you’re gonna have to do. The
university went to online courses, y’know. These are the other things we’re requiring. We’re
requiring this of staff, or sending staff home if they’re sick, we’re not letting ‘em work in the
office.” So, we went through all of that. Okay. This meeting’s goin’ okay. Then all of sudden,
one of her aids leans over and [whispers] whispers in her ear like this. She goes, “Oh, yes. Oh.”
And she looks right at me at the other end of the table, and she said, “[Dental click] Mayor
Mooney, I need to ask you a question. Did you really go on television and tell your constituents
that they were being selfish if they refuse to wear a mask?”
1:44:50 (MO): She had heard about that [chuckles]. Oh wow [chuckles].
1:44:52 (KM): Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, oh yeah. For a split second, I’m thinking, should I admit
it? Well, no, she probably knows it. So, I said, “Yes ma’am.” She said, “That’s exactly what
leadership needs to do.” She said, “I’m sure you probably got some people who didn’t agree with
that.” I said, “Yes ma’am.” She said, “It’s what needed to be done.” So, that was good, but
COVID was scary. I mean, we were fortunate that the big dog across the street here [Texas
A&M University] was able to continue to function, but it was able to continue to function
because we worked together with Bryan and the county [Brazos County], alright – mostly Bryan,
College Station, and A&M. Because we were able to keep businesses open, we were able to keep
the money flowing, and yet at the same time find ways to keep people as reasonably healthy as
we possibly could without still knowing – I mean, we’re still figuring things out about COVID.
We’re getting’ variants now and all this kinda stuff. I worry about a variant coming up. As one
doctor said, this may the first case of a smart virus.
1:46:13 (MO): Hmm. Yes, it does –
1:46:15 (KM): Because it’s able to morph itself so fast.
1:46:17 (MO): It does seem that way. Yes.
1:46:18 (KM): Yeah, yeah. So, we’ll see.
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1:46:21 (MO): You brought up another subject –
1:46:23 (KM): Uh, oh [chuckles]. [Laughs]
1:46:25 (MO): When you need to go, I understand.
[Chuckles]
1:46:31 (MO): How would you summarize the relationship between the City of Bryan and the
City of College Station?
1:46:37 (KM): Okay. Mayor Nelson and I ran for city mayor at the same time. While I was on
council, there were a number of lawsuits between the cities. In fact, there were a total of six
lawsuits that were going on. Mayor Nelson and I had a sit-down discussion before we became
mayor, and we came up with the slogan “Two Cities: One Community” and not everybody
would agree with that. We even have some people currently on council who don’t believe that
way, but my belief is that that approach is in the best interests of both cities. So, when we both
became mayor, we both went to our city managers and our legal councils and said, “Bring those
lawsuits to a stop. Come to a table, figure out a compromise or get them settled one way or
another, alright, but let’s stop this lawsuit.” Right now, there is not a single lawsuit between the
two cities, and there wasn’t for the last five years of my time as mayor. That saves us money. It
builds comradery because we do benefit from each other. [I’ll] give you an example of just how
strong that relationship became. When Beverly and I got married, we got married in downtown
Bryan. Very small, little venue. Mayor Nelson and the Bryan City Council went to The Queen
Theatre and to the Palace Theater and put ‘Congratulations Mayor & Mrs. Mooney’ [chuckles].
1:48:34 (MO): That’s so sweet.
1:48:36 (KM): That wouldn’t have happened before I became mayor, y’know. Yeah. There
might’ve been a sign up that said, y’know, “Hey, hope you get divorced.” [Laughs]
1:48:48 (MO): Yeah, yeah. [Chuckles]
1:48:51 (KM): Yeah, no, now there’s gonna be some competition, there’s gonna be somethings
we compete at, but there’s no reason for it to become hostile.
1:48:59 (MO): Right. So, there’s a downtown Bryan. Do you feel like there’s a downtown
College Station?
1:49:07 (KM): No, not yet.
1:49:09 (MO): What do you feel like would become a downtown College Station?
1:49:11 (KM): The only area that really has a chance of becoming a downtown for College
Station is the area of Midtown in College Station, over there by Baylor Scott & White, but that
even has not evolved quite the way the developer thought it would. I mean, there’s a huge
apartment complex going in down there, over there now.
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1:49:31 (MO): How would you define a ‘downtown’?
1:49:34 (KM): A ‘downtown’ – a vibrant retail, y’know, while I was still mayor, we were
working with the developer for the area right next to Costco and at the last council meeting they
approved that sale. Alright, so that’s gonna have restaurants, entertainment, that sort of thing –
places where people can go and mosey-around and y’know, just have a nice time. Like one of the
things I’m envious about Bryan is their First Fridays.
1:50:06 (MO): Yeah, I like those.
1:50:07 (KM): Yeah, yeah, and when I was mayor, I would even be down there. Alright, and
they’d go, “Oh, you’re here? What the heck?” Y’know, why not?
1:50:18 (MO): So, you think the downtown for students would be different [taps nails] from
downtown for families?
1:50:27 (KM): Yeah, there are some folks who would like to see Northgate change [dental
clicks] and eventually Northgate will change because, for example, there’s a convenience store at
Boyett [Boyett Street] and University [University Drive] and there used to be a 7-Eleven years
ago right across from what used to be the Queen [Campus] Theatre but is now the dance hall
[Shiner Park] and it’s been renamed several times. The value of the property in Northgate is now
at a million dollars an acre. It’s getting to that point where you can’t charge rent high enough to
be able to pay for the property tax. So, with that going on it’s gonna be difficult.
[Recording Pauses]
1:51:19 (MO): Okay, so, some of my last questions are – one was more fun – what was a typical
day like for a mayor and is there such a thing?
1:51:29 (KM): There is no such thing. Y’know, you keep – at one time I had two phones – one
for the city and one that was personal but also served for my university requirements.
Fortunately, we got to a point where Celia Hernandez up in the manager’s office (City
Manager’s Office) would keep my calendar for the city. So, she would insert things in and take
things out as needed. But every night, before I would retire for the evening, I would look at my
university calendar which included my personal calendar and my city calendar, and I would do
that constantly, alright, looking for – making sure things didn’t overlap and such.
1:52:24 (MO): That would be something I would always be paranoid about [laughs].
1:52:26 (KM): Yeah, right, right. There was one time where I felt bad because it was an out-of-
city event that I was asked to come and serve on a panel, and I didn’t catch it. And see it bothers
me so much that I still remember it. Alright.
1:52:46 (MO): Aw [laughs].
1:52:49 (KM): Anyway, and my wife was with me – Laura was with me at the time – and I went
“Aw crap. I can’t believe I missed that.” And I had to call them and say, “I’m sorry.” Because it
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was like 60 miles away and there was no physical way I could get there. Yeah, it’s challenging to
try to keep it all and especially the last three or four months of being mayor. People were trying
to get things done or get me to be places because my time was coming up. There were times
when I was like I just can’t get to everything! Y’know?
1:53:32 (MO): Yeah [laughs].
1:53:34 (KM): Y’know, I would have to go to something, be there for a little while then excuse
myself so I could get to the other thing and excuse myself for being late. Y’know, I mean, I
guess in some ways it’s flattering that people do want you there.
1:53:50 (MO): Yes.
1:53:52 (KM): There were cases where I said, “Well, we can have the mayor pro tem –“ “No,
no, we want you.”
1:53:58 (MO): [Chuckles]
1:54:01 (KM): Y’know, I’ve heard people talk since I’ve been mayor. Somebody’s talked, “Oh
yeah, well he came, and he spoke to us for an hour. Wow, it was great.” Y’know. Ah, okay. Each
of those things, y’know, if you’re doing a powerpoint or you’re preparing your words and such
or doing research on an organization, so you know what they’re really about – that all takes time,
and you add the time for the council meetings. Somebody added up I’m on 28 different
committees and all of those have meetings – maybe not every week, maybe not every month, but
at least quarterly. Y’know, and so you go, okay, what month is this? Oh wait, oh the middle of
the month I’ve got the Brazos Valley Solid Waste Management group that I’ve got to be at.
1:55:02 (MO): I wish I had your time management skills [laughs].
1:55:05 (KM): [Laughs]. So, it gets to the point where, I mean, I was getting up at 2am and
getting university work done or city work done just so that I could get it all done.
1:55:20 (MO): Yes sir.
1:55:21 (KM): Yeah.
1:55:22 (MO): What was [were] the most notable developments during your time?
1:55:25 (KM): The most – ?
1:55:26 (MO): Notable developments. So, land developments, city government infrastructure –
1:55:27 (KM): Notable. Well, the growth of the city obviously is one of those. The growth of
the university and how that impacts us. Y’know, we have places – we were talkin’ about
Northgate before – the huge change in Northgate with so much more yet to come. The FedEx
building where Kinkos FedEx used to be – that’s been bought. That’s gonna have another high-
rise there. Alright. The newest high-rise will be 22-stories. Y’know, there’s one under
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construction right now that’s 19-stories. I mean, go just less than ten years ago and the tallest
buildings were four stories at Northgate.
1:56:14 (MO): Yes.
1:56:15 (KM): So, that’s completely changed. Y’know, the traffic that comes here. If there’s a
concern of change that happens here, it is that more folks that would do harm to our citizens in
the way of robberies, thefts, vehicle thefts, that sort of thing, drug sales, that sort of thing see us
more as an easy target. A lot of that is due to the naivety of the college students. Y’know, we had
a case not very long ago with a young man that was killed thinking he could sell drugs in town,
and he knew it better than anybody else. He tried to sell to somebody and make a deal that would
be in his favor and those guys would have nothing of it and they killed him. [Dental click]
Alright. That concerns me a lot because you hate to see these students come here and to have
those kind of things happen to them. There will be a lot of things we can do here and there’s
going to be a lot more that we need to do, I think, in the way of making sure that the quality of
life that folks who are moving here get to enjoy [it]. That’s why I’m pushing the YMCA. That’s
why I pushed the Rec Center. Y’know, that’s why when we saw the opportunity to sell that
property next to Costco – even Costco itself. I mean, some people will go, “Okay, well we’ve got
Sam’s [Sam’s Club] but some people prefer Costco.
1:58:17 (MO): [Chuckles] Yeah.
1:58:17 (KM): Alright. I mean the women in – and I don’t mean that in a sexist way – but I was
hearing more from women who want either a Trader Joe’s or a Whole Foods. Alright, yeah.
[Laughs]
1:58:31 (MO): Is there a side? [Laughs]
1:58:33 (KM): Right, yeah. Y’know, there’s gonna have to be things that come about here to
really make us a continuing viable place and with some of these businesses that have come here,
and particular Fujifilm Diosynth Biotechnologies. Those folks are coming here and they’re
making good salaries – really good salaries, y’know in the 80s ($80,000 range/year) – alright to
start off there. They can afford the homes. They can afford the style of life and living that they
were accustomed to elsewhere. But we’ve got to provide that too so that they don’t suddenly
come here and, in a year, or two go like, “Ugh, there’s nothin’ to do here. This place is boring.”
Except for the university, “Well, I didn’t go to Texas A&M. I went to the University of
Washington in Seattle” – or whatever, y’know. So, they have no desire to go to Kyle Field, just
as an example. We’ve got to be more cognizant of that. I think for the most part we are cognizant
of it, but we just need to take more action.
1:59:45 (MO): Have a culture outside of just Aggie culture.
1:59:49 (KM): Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, my neighbor is one of those
from the Seattle area. He’s like, “I thought for sure you’d have a YMCA here.” I’m like,
[whispers] “I’m workin’ on it.”
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2:00:03 (MO): [Chuckles] So, that’s in your future plans. Do you have other future plans
[indiscernable]?
2:00:11 (KM): Y’know, some people have been very kind and said nice things about the way I
conducted myself and about how the city operated while I was mayor. They’ve asked me to
continue to consider other elected positions beyond the city. I don’t ever see myself running for
anything at the state level perhaps at the county level which would seem to me to be a natural
progression. Just like, I believe that everyone should on like ZBA [Zoning Board of Adjustment]
or one of the commissions or at least some of the committees and then maybe move up to council
and maybe mayor if they so choose. Alright, so having done that progression up through mayor,
to me the next step seems to be at the county level. Kinda comes back to a question you asked
earlier, “Did you ever see yourself as being mayor?” No, never really being mayor just tryna be a
good person. If I’m able to do that and something else comes up and the right combination of
opportunities and resources comes up who knows, alright. I’m 72, alright. [Dental click]
Y’know, at 72, first you thank the Lord that you’re seein’ every day, you got your health. I look
at the obituary page or pages in the paper each morning and I’m seeing more and more folks who
were born just a little bit after I was born or who were born the same year.
2:02:17 (MO): Yes. And that you know.
2:02:19 (KM): Oh, oh, I know ‘em. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, know ‘em on a first name basis. I
attended more funerals this year than I ever have and they’re not family members, they’re friends
here in town – I’ll go to one tomorrow, a good guy, yeah, he was older and all that but still.
There’s that reminder that life is fragile, and you have to listen to that. I’m married again and if
something were to happen to my wife – God help me that it doesn’t – that would change my
perspective on that.
2:03:08 (MO): Yes sir.
2:03:09 (KM): So, anyway.
2:03:11 (MO): What is your advice for future mayors and anyone seeking to run for mayor?
2:03:16 (KM): Well, and I’ve told this to our current mayor [John Nichols]. I was asked what
was the hardest thing about becoming mayor. When you’re a council member, you can say
everything you want and voice your opinion over and over and over again on as many topics as
you want to. When you’re mayor, you have to bite your lip. You have to let everyone else speak.
You have to try to develop a consensus otherwise your city will not move forward. Sometimes it
means some things will come up for a vote and that vote may not reflect your opinion, but you
still need to carry on because this is a democracy. So, you show up [dental click]. You don’t miss
meetings. I missed one meeting – it was for my honeymoon [chuckles]. Of course, our council
meetings are on TV and ‘course one of the councilmembers said, “Well, do you think we should
call him right now? I wonder what he’s doin’.”
[Laughter]
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2:04:42 (KM): Yeah, thank you Dennis that was so kind of you.
[Chuckles]
2:04:46 (MO): Were they always on TV?
2:04:49 (KM): The council meetings are always – yeah they’re on our channel.
2:04:50 (MO): Even before COVID and everything went virtual?
2:04:53 (KM): Yes, yes. Uhuh. Yeah, yeah P&Z [Planning and Zoning Commission] wasn’t
always on. The council in the last couple years changed that, said alright, P&Z should also be on.
So, that’s good.
2:05:11 (MO): So, to close this what do you feel like is your greatest achievement as mayor?
2:05:16 (KM): Greatest achievements. Hmm.
2:05:19 (MO): You could pick one. I mean, you could pick a couple too.
2:05:21 (KM): Well, I mean, they’re different. Y’know, greatest achievements are greatest at the
time that they were achieved. You can’t stop and rest on one achievement. You have to think,
okay, what is next? Y’know, I mean it’s like when you get your degree, alright, you stopped and
you said okay.
2:05:48 (MO): Check [moves finger in a check mark motion]. [Chuckles]
2:05:50 (KM): Yeah, but now what’s next.
2:05:52 (MO): I like that answer.
2:05:53 (KM): What do I do? Where do I want to work? Y’know, do I want to go for another
degree.
2:05:58 (MO): I have thought that. I didn’t think that, y’know, a year or two ago but now
[chuckles].
2:06:02 (KM): Yeah. Once you get involved in the career, everything and you start to think
okay, wait a minute, if I could do this, I could enhance my career, alright. I remember when I got
my doctorate. [Dental click] I was like oh gosh, now what do I do. There’s no more schooling.
I’m at the top of my field.
2:06:21 (MO): Yes sir. [Chuckles] Now, I’ll just get more degrees in other subjects.
2:06:26 (KM): Yeah. Well, that’s what my son does. He just gets more degrees. Like I
mentioned earlier, the police headquarters at that time absolutely essential for us. Y’know, we
just couldn’t fit anymore police into that police headquarters. We had to have that, and that had
to be first. City hall – huge. So as far as facilities and things that will carry on decades and
decades beyond today, those were huge. Curving COVID at the time – saving lives – there is no
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greater achievement than that. I have to believe the steps we took saved lives. Y’know, there will
be other smaller things. Somebody who’s an environmentalist might say the millions of dollars
that we spent on improved our wastewater affluent was a better, higher achievement because
downstream, so to speak, that’s going to have a greater impact. Alright.
2:07:51 (MO): So subjective depending on who you’re talking to.
2:07:53 (KM): Yeah, yeah. So, just to hang your hat on one thing, yeah –
2:08:00 (MO): Well, you were here for a very long time.
2:08:05 (KM): 18 years all total.
2:08:06 (MO): So, that is hard to pick one. What do you hope to see continue post your
mayoralty?
2:08:14 (KM): Well, obviously the rec center. I was glad that the council that was in place while
I was mayor was able to give the go ahead to the city to start working on that. I had wished that
that’d happened a long time ago.
2:08:34 (MO): I’m excited to see it.
2:08:36 (KM): Oh yeah, oh, I mean, it’ll be great for the city. When COVID hit, that just put
everything on – put the brakes on so many things. There are roadways that need help, but the
problem with our roadways here is most of our north, south – our major roadways that are north,
south, east and west are state highways – Farm to Market or regular highways. Highway 6
[inhales sharply], alright. Wellborn Road is 2154. Alright, University Drive is Highway 60.
Alright, Harvey Road is Highway 30, alright, becomes 158 on the edge of town. Getting
Interstate 14 and the Loop 214, which will be decades from now, will be important to the overall
growth. And when that happens, oh my gosh, this area is gonna boom like nobody ever saw it. I
don’t know if you’ve ever travelled on the Loop 99 [Texas State Highway 99].
2:09:43 (MO): Yes.
2:09:43 (KM): Okay. Well, if you remember when that first opened up –
2:09:46 (MO): Yes, I lived right by where it opened up, yeah.
2:09:50 (KM): Alright. There was nothing. Go down it now, and if there isn’t something, there’s
a sign about something that’s gonna be there.
2:09:59 (MO): Yes [chuckles].
2:10:00 (KM): Y’know? It’s crazy just how much is going on.
2:10:05 (MO): Yes sir.
2:10:05 (KM): That’s the same impact that I-14 [Interstate 14], which will come along the
northside of College Station and wind down around and head out to Huntsville. Then the Loop
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214, which will go all around the area is going to have the same impact as 99 [Texas State
Highway 99].
2:10:26 (MO): Yes sir.
2:10:28 (KM): [Dental click] Okay, so, it’s scary but if you build it, they will come.
2:10:31 (MO): Yes. [Laughs] Well, thank you so much for coming and taking time out of your
day to do an oral history with me.
2:10:40 (KM): No, it’s okay. My staff at the university’s [Texas A&M] probly goin’ like,
“Where the heck is he?”
2:10:43 (MO): [Laughs] Well, thank you for your time and contribution as mayor for the city
and –
2:10:50 (KM): I’m glad you’re doin’ this. I hope you get together with all the other remaining
mayors who are still alive – that’s kinda a scary thought, “still alive”.
2:10:59 (MO): And you never know, maybe we’ll be doing one of these again and maybe for –
same thing county related, or YMCA related.
2:11:06 (KM): [Laughs] Well, there you go, it might be YMCA. Yeah, you just never know.
2:11:10 (MO): Yes sir. Thank you so much.