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HomeMy WebLinkAboutLorence Bravenec Transcription City of College Station Heritage Programs Oral History Interviewee: Lorence Bravenec Interviewer: Tiffany Gonzalez Date: January 28, 2019 Place: Municipal Court in College Station, Texas Project: The City of College Station Oral History Collection Transcriber: Ian Seavey Abstract: Former Mayor of College Station, Lorence Bravenec discusses how he became a professor of accounting at Texas A&M University. Bravenec also recounts the events that led to him running for City Council and eventually becoming Mayor. He highlights some of the struggles and successes he had while serving as Mayor and offers advice for anyone who might be interested in running for public office. He concludes by sharing his travel plans after he retired from teaching at Texas A&M in 2015. 00:00: Tiffany Gonzalez (TG): My name is Tiffany Gonzalez, I am College Station’s Historic Records Archivist and the interviewer. It is January 28, 2019 11:02 a.m., at currently we are at Municipal Court off Krenek Tap Rd in College Station, Texas. 00:23: Lorence Bravenec (LB): I am Lorence Bravenec, and I am in Conference Room B, talking with this charming young lady, Tiffany. I am looking forward to this interview, which I presume is taking place because I was on the City Council from 1973 to 1975 and in 1975, I was elected Mayor and served for two, two-year terms (1975-1979). 00:57: TG: Thank you Mr. Bravenec. To get started, can you tell us when and where you were born? 1:03: LB: I was born in Houston, Texas, in the year 1935, November 13th of 1935. This was during the Great Depression. I know my parents carried the mark of the depression for a long time. They were very conscious about how they spent their money, and now so am I. 1:45: TG: And this happened while you were growing up? 1:50: LB: My growing up, sure. I went through World War II, which started in 1941, when I was six years old. And I do remember some of events during the war. I remember when President Roosevelt died in 1944, and also when General MacArthur retuned to the Philippines as he promised he would. I think people were shocked by that but note that Roosevelt served as president for so long. 2:23: TG: Is there anything else? 2:24: LB: And then I was in college during the Korean War and I was fortunate not to be drafted at that time. I eventually joined the National Guard. And three years later I had a neck injury and was given a medical discharge from the guard. 3:04: TG: Thank you. Where did you go to college? 3:06: LB: I went to college at the University of Texas. I was influenced by my brother who went to A&M and because I had followed my brother, all my life up to that point. I decided that it’s time to strike out on my own. And so I went to the University of Texas, graduated with a degree in liberal arts and then went to law school at the University of Texas. And about ten years later I came to College Station with the thought I might practice law in College Station. But I got a temporary job in the accounting department and uh, that temporary job turned into a permanent job because it was an excellent job. 4:02: TG: So just too kind of backtrack, so you went to school or college at University of Texas at Austin and then eventually worked for A&M? 4:02: LB: Well uh, went to college at University of Texas. Um I guess you could … [Laughing] Maybe that’s what an Aggie would call it. [Laughing] Then I came to College Station and began working for Texas A&M. Um I never denied attending UT-Austin but I didn’t broadcast it either. This is a marvelous place. I fell for all the traditions and really enjoyed being associated with A&M. I recommend that any graduate from the University of Texas get a job at A&M, as soon as possible. 4:22: TG: [Laughing] Um, so you mentioned that you were in the National Guard. Was this during your time you started in the accounting department, or when can you tell us a little bit when you were in the National Guard? 4:33: LB: I was in the National Guard. From 1955 or 56’ for about two, two and half years. My memory of this period is not very good. I remember one time. I made the commander of the guard mad because I was just dragging my posterior because of a terrible headache. So he put me on every duty he could think of, like washing dishes, cleaning latrines, and so on but that was okay, I deserved it. And I did my, whatever National Guard people do, I know I went to Camp Mabry, in Austin, for meetings. 5:18: TG: Okay. 5:19: LB: I also went to Fort Hood near Killen for camp. I posted guard duty one night and I remember patrolling the parameters of the camp during the middle of the night. And there were nice people, the National Guard people. 5:39: TG: So after the National Guard is that when then you came to A&M or? 5:43: LB: Uh no, my first job in 1960 after law school was the Department of Justice. 5:49: TG: [Shocked] Wow! In DC? 5:51: LB: Uh, I was in the Honors Program there. And two years later I taught at the University of Houston followed by the University of North Dakota and then followed by the University of Pittsburg. I got married to a North Dakotan woman. And had three children with her. 6:09: TG: Wow. 6:11: LB: She was a talented and desirable woman but unfortunately she eventually wanted a divorce so that was okay with me. I re-married about five years later, again to a marvelous woman. 6:25: TG: So when you were at the universities were you teaching law or what were you specifically doing at the University of North Dakota and the University of Pittsburg? 6:34: LB: I was teaching at law school. 6:36: TG: What was your specialty? 6:38: LB: Federal Taxation. 6:39: TG: Okay. 6:42: LB: And in fact, teaching taxation at Texas A&M was not too different from law schools. 6:49: TG: Really? How is that? 6:51: LB: Uh, the tax people, the accountants and the lawyers, they’re professionals that really complement each other. You’re a better tax lawyer if you have an accounting background, and you’re a better accountant if you have a law degree. 7:05: TG: I can see that. 7:07: LB: Sure. 7:14: TG: So I can see how it’s important to have different backgrounds and different degrees to master in something. 7:22: LB: I think that’s very helpful. That’s not to say that you don’t have good teachers. 7:28: TG: Right. 7:29: LB: Or don’t have several degrees. I’m sure that you had very good teachers. I know mine had multiple degrees. And they were very capable people. I went to high school in Houston called John Reagan High School, which had a name change because John Reagan was a former slave owner. My own feeling was let’s just name the high school Ronald Reagan High School, so we could continue to say, “I went to Reagan.” They didn’t take my advice. 8:01: TG: Do you know what the new name of it name is? 8:03: LB: I do not. Maybe it’s Heights High because it’s located in the Houston Heights area. 8:12: TG: Did they change it recently? Or how long ago do you know? 8:15: LB: Mm, five or ten years ago. 8:17: TG: Oh, okay. 8:18: LB: And you know I’m sure they did not name it in favor of more recent person. 8:23: TG: Right. 8:24: LB: My grandparents were born, or came here shortly after the Civil War, and they didn’t care for slavery. 8:33: TG: Did they live in Houston? 8:36: LB: My grandparents? No, no, no. One set of grandparents came out of Snook and the other set came out of Fayetteville area. 8:45: TG: Did they live there their whole lives? 8:48: LB: Uh, well the Snook grandparents stayed there until their 80s. 8:53: TG: Okay. 8:54: LB: And the Snook grandparents both died in their eighties. Maybe two years before they died, they moved from Snook to College Station to live with their daughter Francis Badgett. 9:10: TG: Okay. 9:11: LB: And the other set of grandparents, during or after World War I, like a lot of other people, they left the small Texas town La Grange and moved to Houston. 9:23: TG: They wanted to move to the larger city? 9:25: LB: Uh, My La Grange grandfather was a metal engineer. Otherwise known as a blacksmith. 9:33: TG: Oh. 9:34: LB: And he got a job with the Houston Streetcar Company when they moved from La Grange. 9:40: TG: In Houston? 9:42: LB: Yes, this was World War I. And he got a job shodding horses that pulled streetcars. 9:52: TG: Uh, I think I’ve seen some pictures of that. 9:54: LB: Of shoeing horse, yes. He was really a jack of all trades. I think he retired during the Depression. And then fortunately, social security came along, gave him some resources and dignity in his old age. 10:11: TG: Wow. So, did you always know you wanted to be a tax lawyer? Or did that just evolve when you were growing up? 10:21: TG: Well, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I got to the University of Texas and majored in Plan 2, a liberal arts program for students who graduated in the upper part of their high school class. And then I got to thinking. “What am I going to do with my liberal arts degree?” I began taking accounting courses for which I got only three hours accounting theory credit toward my degree. I graduated from the University of Texas with almost 140 hours when only 120 were required. 10:56: TG: That’s kind of like getting a minor in something nowadays. 10:59: LB: Right. In accounting. 11:01: TG: Yep, but I guess no credit? 11:07: LB: No degree credit. 11:09: TG: Alright. 11:10: LB: And uh, I never regretted the extra work. When I was out of law school and passed the bar exam. I then had credit for three of the four parts of the four part CPA exam but lacked the practice part because I had no practical experience. I went to work for A&M, they gave me a job teaching financial accounting for one year, which then gave me the equivalent of practical experience and qualified me to take the fourth part. Okay. 11:50: TG: Oh. 11:52: LB: Financial accounting teacher for one year. I taught “donkey accounting” so called because it was basic accounting for agricultural majors. 12:03: TG: Oh ok. 12:04: LB: And Yes. And this teaching also helped me get me ready for the practice part of the CPA exam. Then I took this part of the CPA exam and passed it. 12:10: TG: That kind of made you official. 12:12: LB: Uh, yes well I had to be a CPA if I wanted to continue teaching in the Accounting Department at Texas A&M. 12:22: TG: Wow, really? 12:23: LB: So that’s the reason I became a CPA. 12:27: TG: Dang, you’ve done a lot. Uh, well thank you for that. Can you talk a little bit about what your, you’ve spoken about what your grandparents did but what about your parents? What did they do for a living? 12:40: LB: My mother after high school went to Massey Business College, which I think was just a one year program, and then became a stenographer for a law firm. 12:50: TG: Wow. So law kind of runs in the family? 12:54: LB: Yes, And my dad came to Houston after World War I, he had a bad year farming in Snook, which sure helped him decide not to be a farmer. He started out as an auditor for Gulf Oil. And then he later went into the jewelry business. 13:14: TG: Wow. 13:15: LB: He bought a third interest in a jewelry store. And eventually owned two-thirds of it. 13:20: TG: That’s nice. 13:21: LB: And when he retired in 1948 or 49’, he reserved the name Texas Jewelry Company in case any of his children wanted to be jewelers. And I don’t believe there is a Texas Jewelry Company in Houston to this day. All four of us went to college– beginning with my older brother John, who went to A&M, I went to the University of Texas and Ben and Robert went to the University of Houston. My parents had four sons, two that were ministers, three that were CPAs, one that was a lawyer, but we only had four of us, so how did we do that? 13:59: TG: [Laughing] how did that happen? 14:01 LB: I was a CPA and a lawyer, John a minister, Ben was a minister and CPA, and Robert a CPA. 14:10: TG: So was he a CPA first and then he became a minister? 14:13: LB: My dad? 14:15: TG: No, your brother, Ben. 14:17: LB: He was a CPA first and then he became a minister. 14:21: TG: Oh. So it sounds like your dad was a jack of all trades. Going from farming, next auditor, and then a jeweler. 14:29: LB: He did a lot of things. He was a farmer, contractor, businessmen, and then he was a pretty good investor. 14:36: TG: Thank you. So I guess we can kind of move on to start talking about um when and why you moved to College Station. 14:43: LB: My wife and I moved to College Station in 1971 because I had connections in Central Texas. Uh, a lot of friends in Houston, lot of relatives and friends in La Grange and Snook, and it seemed like a really good move. I also had two aunts and their husbands who lived in College Station and Bryan and their husbands, and I had two uncles and their wives who lived in Burleson County. 15:10: TG: You decided on College Station and then you looked for job at A&M? Or how or what did you do when you first moved here? 15:18: LB: I wrote the Accounting Department at Texas A&M University and asked, if they had any open positions. I also wrote some lawyers and I did have an offer from one lawyer by the name of Alfred Davis, called or nicknamed “Head” Davis. And if I had taken that job I would have been a local lawyer, I guess, but by that time I was married and had one child and I just thought it prudent to take a job that paid a salary for a while. I ran for city council in the year 1973 and then two years later I was mayor. In large part I was itching to be part of the community in running for this office. 16:09: TG: Just to backtrack a little bit um, so did you move to College Station around 1970? 16:15: LB: 71’. 16:18: TG: Oh 71’okay. 16:20: LB: Yeah. My son, John, was almost one year old. 16:23: TG: So your trek to College Station was it right after North Dakota? 16:28: LB: Uh, no, no. We moved from Dallas. 16:32: TG: Oh okay. 16:37: LB: I was practicing law in Dallas. 16:39: TG: Wow. Okay. 16:43: LB: Oh, I’ve been all over the place. In Dallas I was a practicing lawyer. And I was a pretty good lawyer, if you don’t mind my saying so. 16:50: TG: I don’t mind. 16:52: LB: [Laughing] Yeah, but you just take life as it unfolds. 16:58: TG: So, can you talk about what you did at Texas A&M? Was it similar to what you did in Dallas or North Dakota? 17:04: LB: No, just teaching financial accounting first then taxation. 17:13: TG: Can you talk more about your work at College Station? I guess my question is, how long did you work at A&M? 17:19: LB: I retired in the year 2015. 17:22: TG: Oh, recently. 17:24: LB: Um, I had about 40 years of teaching at A&M. 17:28: TG: Wow. 17:29: LB: And I retired one semester too soon. It was crazy. A&M was going to let a lot of people off. And here I was already 75 years old, and still teaching. And I thought, “Lorence, maybe you ought to retire because they might otherwise get rid of cleaning ladies who really needed the money.” I was thinking in part of all those cleaning ladies who I’d see work at night. So I retired later they offered to buy out faculty by giving the retiring person one year salary. And to save money for others, I had bad judgement retiring one year too soon. 18:14: TG: Dang! 18:15: LB: Bad judgement. Second reason I had bad judgment because they went ahead and replaced the service staff anyway. 18:23: TG: That’s horrible. Do you miss it at all? 18:27: LB: Of course I miss it. I enjoy the students. And I miss the intellectual stimulation. It’s gone. I’m so obsolete now, there’s no way I want to go back into teaching taxation. 18:42: TG: To talk a little bit about your public service, how did you become interested in that and running for City Council? 18:49: LB: Well you know, I had mixed motives, I was not personally affected. I was bothered by the fact the city council made a terrible mistake in 1973. 18:59: TG: What was the mistake that happened in ‘73? 19:02: LB: Well, the mistake was that the Council gave apartment zoning to vacant land next to existing single-family residences, contrary to the expectations of the home owners. The reasonable expectation of single-family homeowners is that there will be low density development before there’s high density development, that is, one or more transition zones, as examples, duplexes or town homes before apartments. The effect of the Council’s action was to take money from the pockets of home owners and place it in the pockets of developers. 19:44: TG: Kind of like townhomes? 19:46: LB: Yeah, townhomes. Maybe duplexes. And I thought, “That’s just crazy.” And it was just the wrong action, and voters generally agreed with me. Also, my two opponents were not strong candidates. One opponent (Tom Chaney) finished houses, and voters probably felt that he would favor developers over home owners. The other opponent was a woman (Gloria Martenson); and both men and women voters at that time did not support women candidates as they do now. Also, longtime residents Howard and Francis Badgett were my kinfolks and with my Uncle’s permission I named him as campaign director on my cards. I managed to get elected in a 3-person race with more than 50% of the vote. I didn’t have a run-off. 20:47: TG: Thank you. So I’m aware that there might have been issues that happened prior to with the Council and having to not be given two salaries, what does that mean? Can you talk about that? 20:59: LB: Sure. The prohibition was not on two “salaries” but on two “emoluments of office” such as being a “professor” and a “city council member,” even though the latter position did not pay a salary or other monetary compensation. The prohibition was in the Texas State constitution. That prior restriction was modified later by constitutional amendment defining “emolument of office” as a paid position, largely through the efforts of our former mayor D.A. “Andy” Anderson who lobbied the proposal through the state legislature. In the 1974 election, after the law was changed, Jim Dozier, Jim Garner, and I were elected as council members. And on year later (1975) Gary Halter, Larry Ringer, and [either Ann Hazen or Pat Boughton or Homer Adams] were elected to the City Council and in 1976, I was elected mayor. A new group took control and the city really changed direction to favor homeowners, for example by appointing a Planning and Zoning Commission that favored homeowners. We also passed an ordinance requiring park land dedication by people who develop residential properties. I think that this ordinance is still with us. 22:45: TG: Yeah, adding parks is a valuable contribution to the community and the homeowners and the city overarchingly. 22:53: LB: In my years as mayor, we became the city of parks, we went out and bought some park land, too, the park land off of Krenek Tap Road, City Park where they now have the baseball fields and Christmas decorations. 23:14: TG: Are you talking about Central Park? 23:17: LB: Uh, if you take the old road – Krenek Tap Road. 23:22: TG: Oh yeah, Central Park. 23:26: TG: So did this happen when you were Mayor? 23:28: LB: That’s when I was Mayor. 23:30: TG: Okay. 23:31: LB: I had one person who asked me to fix a traffic ticket, while I was Mayor. But the story is more complex. About two weeks before, Patrolman Tommy Preston gave me a ticket for going through a school zone too fast. Mr. Preston was really nervous when I gave him my name. I told the City Manager North Bardell about this and how I was pleased with the patrolman. North Bardell’s response: “you keep a copy of that ticket because sooner or later someone is going to come to you and ask you to ‘fix’ his ticket. Sure enough, a week later a student in one of my classes came to me and said, “Can you fix this for me?” I showed him my ticket and replied: “Look at this ticket, I pay mine. You pay yours. That’s what we do in this city.” 24:26: TG: Has anything else happened that you can remember during your time in office? 24:33: LB: Well, I don’t think we had any serious race relations problems. However, we did have segregated schools for a period after organizing the city, I understand. (I did not move here with my family until 1971 and thus am relying on hearsay.) When our schools began integration, the plan was to integrate the first grade, the next year the first and second grades, and so on. However, when one of the black schools burned down, I understand that we then integrated fully the entire school system. However, we did have some predominantly black residence areas at this time, for example, the area around Lincoln Park. I don’t know if any deeds were ever contained restricted covenants relating to races. Also, I do know that we had some integration in residential areas. One of the baby sitters for my children was a young black girl who lived about 3 blocks from us. 25:44: TG: I think we um we do have some records from the original neighborhood in our archive. I heard that some of them restricted blacks from living there. 25:53: LB: I never heard of that before. 25:54: TG: Well, I really don’t know. 25:56: LB: I was not aware of it. 25:59: TG: So it had to have been prior to I guess when the neighborhoods were first being developed. Perhaps like College Hills in the 1940s. 26:09: LB: Look, River Oaks in Houston, prohibited Jews from coming in. I don’t know of Jewish background or what have you. I always thought that restrictions were kind of crazy. 26:24: TG: Yeah, um segregation, it’s good that we’ve kind of evolved as a society from there. So I have a question, um were there any issues that made you run for Mayor? Or was it just your time at City Council and that you felt was the next step? 26:45: LB: Well, the one issue that they – College Station is not a pro-tax city. They made some bad decisions in voting down taxes though. But at the time we had a chance to vote on the hotel/motel tax. We turned it down because we only had three members who voted for it. But we passed it when had seven members or maybe six and a half or something like that. I don’t know when Homer Adams was defeated. That was one that would pass that couldn’t pass before. And the parking dedication passed, that couldn’t pass before. And then you had some people who had some backbone who then stood up to the City of Bryan. This was when I was Mayor, they furnished, and we bought our electricity through them. Because they were part of a group of cities that had electrical generation facilities. And we had some of our sewerage treated by Bryan. And we bought all of our water from them. The hotel/motel tax was well-used by the City to support the visitors bureau, the Arts Council, and special projects. 28:04: TG: Can you talk a little bit more about that relationship between College Station and Bryan? 28:09: LB: The City of College Station was engaged in a utilities dispute with the City of Bryan during a large part of my time as Mayor. At the beginning of this time, College Station purchased its electricity sold to its residents from the City of Bryan. We also purchased most of our water to be resold to our residents from the City of Bryan. In addition, the City of Bryan treated our sewerage from the Northgate area. The City of Bryan proposed electrical rates substantially higher than before and even higher than some of Bryan’s industrial customers. It was our view that Bryan intended to avoid a needed tax increase by higher prices to College station. The proposed contract was objectionable in other respects, for example by making College Station pay for needed transmission improvements twice, once in the rates and the second time if and when we left Bryan as a supplier. They also would not treat our sewerage or furnish water if we discontinued buying electricity. (This is called a tie-in and is illegal under the anti-trust laws.) We argued with the City of Bryan for some time and then went shopping for an alternate supplier, Gulf States Utilities. Gulf States served both Navasota and Hearn and its transmission line ran between Navasota and Hearn right through College Station by the bypass. We eventually could not reach agreement with the City of Bryan and the City of Bryan brought suit against us in the Public Utilities Commission to prevent our switching to Gulf States for our electricity. Because I knew a lot of attorneys in Houston, I took responsibility for locating a utilities attorney through my connections. The attorney that we hired was Larry Veselka, [who by the way should be interviewed] he had recently left the Public Utilities Commission as an attorney. Our litigation with the City of Bryan occurred in two lawsuits before the Public Utilities Commission, and we prevailed in both of them, because Gulf States had a power line in the boundaries of College Station, perhaps because it was obvious that Bryan was over reaching, and perhaps because of Bryan’s unlawful tie-in. To make needed capital improvements, we had two bond elections with favorable results. In both of these bond elections, Councilman Gary Halter prepared excellent brochures distributed to our cities. And that was our rite-of-passage after which we were independent of Bryan (for electricity, sewerage, water) and now have a larger population than Bryan. The irony of ironies, for College Station at this time was a satellite of the City of Bryan and after we got our own electricity, sewage, and water, Bryan had to use College Station’s landfill for its trash. And in addition before this time we were a small satellite city but after we became a full city dedicated especially to quality of life. We had been a satellite city but now we are the major metropolitan city within 75 miles and surpassed the City of Bryan. Uh due largely to our attorney who did a masterful job before the Public Utilities Commission. And by the way I recommend that we interview this attorney about his litigation with the City of Bryan. 33:13: LB: Yeah, so we stood up to them. Their service and electricity rates by the public utility commission on electricity rates. They didn’t dare cut off the sewer tap and the water tap. We passed a bond issue that basically gave us authority to raise taxes to cover an electrical sub-station, water treatment plant, and sewer treatment plant. We got our water from wells north of Bryan, and the water line runs along the West Bypass. 33:45: TG: So are you kind of talking about the water line coming from 2818? 33:51: LB: Our water wells were located north of Bryan because the water there is less salty. It comes out of – I forget what the formation is called. 34:03: TG: Is it an underground well? 34:04: LB: Oh yes. Its underground wells, yes. And as the water table down dips towards College Station, it gets saltier, I guess because of the proximity to the gulf. But it’s still relatively free of salt or sodium at the present wells north of Bryan. 34:26: TG: Sounds like you dealt with a lot of issues in office did you continue to run for reelection afterwards? 34:32: LB: After four years I did not seek reelection. The novelty had worn off and I had two very capable people on the city council that I thought deserved to be Mayor eventually -- Gary Halter and Larry Ringer. And also former Mayor Dick Hervey gave me some good advice he said, “When everybody is happy, quit.” 35:00: TG: You quit? 35:01: LB: I quit. Most everybody was happy so I quit. 35:05: TG: [Laughing] so to backtrack, you ended your time in council, was it 1979 or 1980? 35:14: LB: 1980. The city has mid-year elections. 35:19: TG: So you just finished out your term? 35:21: LB: You have a full two year term after you’re election. Well Phil Gram was a Representative at that time. But the story is he got us some legislation to lower the railroad track. It was designed for us but we lost the bond election to pay our share of the cost. It required us to pay about 10% on the cost, 90% would be paid by the federal government, and that railway line follows 2818. And goes all the way through College Station. The more economical thing was to take that line from 2818 and take that line and gradually move it underground from south of the city until it was about 20 feet underground. And then it would rise again above ground at Bryan. 36:17: TG: Is it near or on Wellborn? Is it Wellborn? 36:19: LB: No, not Wellborn. I guess you might say it’s an extension of the railroad from Wellborn to Bryan with an underground part on campus. 36:29: TG: Near College Avenue? 36:31: LB: No. [Laughing] Here we go, here’s the railroad. And here is an underpass. And somewhere it crosses. Okay this is the railroad. I’m sorry. This is the railroad and the road itself and Villa Maria goes on this side. 36:49: TG: Okay. 36:50: LB: The railroad here. And this is, they didn’t dare extend it here through Bryan after leaving College Station because the railroad was too high in Bryan. They would’ve started going below ground here and then brought it back above ground, going uphill, at this point. But the railroad through the TAMU campus would have been below ground and not a barrier across campus. From underground TAMU campus to Villa Maria Street in Bryan there would be an easy transition. 37:28: TG: Right. 37:28: LB: Keeping a high density of population out of the reach above ground of the railroad. 37:40: TG: Okay. 37:41: LB: Because it was below ground level through the University, if a chlorine storage tank derailed, its gas would escape. The poison gas and the poison, liquids would go out and thus escape the students. The bond issue failed because of the business community. The business community did not want those extra taxes. I have humorously called Gary Halter and told him that if I had stayed as mayor, the bond election would have passed. 38:20: TG: Do you regret not staying on then? 38:23: LB: Really. I don’t know why the City turned it down. To me it was just craziness. To solve one problem. I realized you would not have, as a City kept moving south, you would still have a problem. But it would have solved that the major problem – the concentration of students and automobiles. And so, let me go off the record again. I was elected mayor because of a feud that developed between former mayor Andy Anderson and Joe Sawyer, the president of University National Bank in the 1970s. The election for mayor was 1976. And Joe Sawyer had recruited Bob Bell to run for mayor. And Andy Anderson wouldn’t put up with this. Uh incidentally I’m a little incorrect on my dates it might have been ’75 that the election was held not 76. 39:21: TG: Okay 39:23: LB: Andy Anderson. He didn’t want Joe Sawyer to handpick the mayor. So he went out looking for somebody else to run. And I know he talked to Halter because Halter told me. I don’t know who else he talked to but he eventually came around to me. And I said, I’ll give it a try. At this time, I had been in the City for 5 years since 1971. And so, what Andy did which was smart move, he created a house visit. On a house on Pershing, if you get on Pershing, you notice there’s a little hook in the road before it comes back around and that little hook in the road, there’s a unique house that’s very long and very thin. The owners of the house volunteered their house as a place to host a meeting with the “future” mayor. And Andy got ten of his friends who agreed to get ten other couples. So here we have 220 people – husbands and wives. And the vote at that time wasn’t very big. That might not be the whole City vote but it’s enough to change the result. And then about ten minutes before filing deadline, Bob Bell the other candidate came into the City Secretary’s office at City Hall and resigned from running for mayor, and filed for a city council position. Which was a mistake because then everybody thought that Bob Bell is flaky. So I got in without opposition. People would say, “Landslide Larry.” And in addition Bob Bell was defeated for the City Council position. Bob Bell went on to work for the local radio station. I have not kept up with him lately. Let me see what else. Oh, yes I ran for Mayor under the name Lorence “Larry” Bravenec. This is kind of embarrassing to me but my first name is spelt like – Lorence (which is the Austrian spelling for Lorence). And I never really reconciled to that but I’ve accepted it. If someone misspells the name, I’m not bothered. My middle name is Larry and my parents didn’t know that Larry was a nickname for Lorence. So what I did, I ran under the name of Lorence “Larry” Bravenec. And people started calling me Larry, which is what they’ve done all my life anyway. But my real name is Lorence Larry Bravenec. I ran as if “Larry” was a nickname and it’s not deceiving because people call me “Larry.” 42:32: TG: [Laughing] Larry Larry. 42:33: LB: Larry Larry. 42:35: TG: Can you take us through a day in the life as mayor? Did you have a typical day as mayor or was it fluctuating on a daily basis? 42:43: LB: Well, you know, number one I was bicycle rider at the time. I was also known as a bicycle rider and even did a TV, not a full program but just a little spot of me riding the bicycle. And second of all, the way that life did change was that everyday I’d go by City Hall and see what was going on, if anything needed my help. So it kept me on top of everything. And then I had a lot of things I had to do. Always funny that I would be invited to ribbon cutting affairs and arrive on a bicycle. Someone would start a new business and they would want the mayor there.) I was just pleased to do that. (Although I thought this was strange, they could have a council member do it. And one time I got invited to the Texas World Speedway for a race and I talked to Ann Hazen into taking my place. She called me afterwards she said, “What did you do to me? It was the noisiest place I have ever been.” (You know with those cars racing right by the stands.) 43:58: TG: [Laughing] That’s funny. 43:59: LB: One time I had local big land owner very mad at me because he took Bardell, Jim Dozier, and council person Gary Halter and me to lunch and he wanted to pay for the lunch. I told him, “No. I’m not going to put up with this.” I just didn’t think I wanted to accept something like this. I don’t want people buying me lunch and boy, he got mad at me. Oh, did he get mad. 44:28: TG: Yeah, so while you were elected did you have any specific goals in mind? Or did the goals just follow along with what happened especially with the lawsuit and what not? 44:41: LB: I was really a one issue person. I didn’t want crazy zoning results. But it was a lot deeper than that. We had things like Parkland dedication, which I really favored. And to be the Parkland dedication ordinance and to me the Parkland dedication ordinance had been suggested to me by Councilman Gary Halter. He was on City Council, the whole time I was mayor. And let’s see, this business about the Arts Council that was a “no brainer.” This tax is imposed on the hotel/motel tax not imposed on residents. The hotel people did mildly object and at that time most of the motels were in College Station. There were very few in Bryan. Now that’s been changed but at that time 99%, they really didn’t object. That was a moralist thing there were a lot of parks that we might not have had and some programs (such as tourist and the Arts Council). Let see what else, what else? Well we filled various committees such as the planning and zoning, and the zoning board adjustment with people more sympathetic to Parkland dedication and to protecting the investment of residents. 46:27: TG: Okay. We can move on. 46:29: LB: Well the City had a bunch of committees. 46:33: TG: Yes, it still does yeah. 46:35: LB: The foregoing wasn’t all. We were getting sued by people or being threatened to be sued because of zoning decisions. It was a little nerve-wracking to most Council people. But you can’t go through life retreating from threats and I think that the City Council might have since my time. They were a little timid before, I guess they were a little timid afterwards. I don’t think my Council backed down once when someone threatened us with a lawsuit when I was on the Council. Not once. We just asked our attorneys, “Well what are the chances.” And uh, I don’t think we backed out at all. I don’t believe we did. 47:20: TG: So what changes occurred during your time with the City? 47:24: LB: Well, the city grew, bought that big city park. We built 3 swimming pools. The park on College Station is a crazy little park because it really consists of land that was dedicated because you couldn’t build houses on it. The land was just too narrow to build houses. Or maybe it was given to us because it was on the creek or flood plain. I don’t know. 47:55: TG: It’s still a park. 47:58: LB: We did put a swimming pool there. I think we only had two at the time. We wanted one of those to be a swimming pool for the local swim team. Although this is not a school activity it’s basically a community activity. The local swim team had used the pool down on the bypass, the high school pool there, but I think the swim team, well I just don’t know. I’ve lost contact with it. I had three children that swam on the swim team. 48:32: TG: Can you talk a little bit more about that? The program? The swim team? 48:36: LB: Well that was a very good program, I recommend it to you because it will keep your children busy, it will get your children tired, they won’t be hanging out without things to do. People who put their kids in that program care, they care about their children and their children’s friends. And my children had some very good friends during that time on the swim team. 49:03: TG: Yeah I’m under the impression that it’s still going strong. 49:08: LB: Is it? 49:09: TG: I think so. 49:10: LB: Do you have children? 49:11: TG: I don’t. But talking with Parks and Recs and just hearing what they are saying, it sounds like a strong program. 49:18: LB: And they probably think they own the pool, that is, the swim team? 49:23: TG: Um, I think they just practice. I know there is a pool at Rock Prairie but I don’t know when that was built. 49:29: LB: It was built on Rock Prairie after my time but the local swim team did practice there at one time. If you’re going to have a pool year-round, you might as well let the swim team use it. Because when they use it, it’s for school, they might have used it before school. They are really not conflicting with school activities. They conflict with the general public. I think the conflict with the general public would be minimal also. I don’t know, I better back off from that, I just don’t know. 50:15: TG: Yeah. Well thank you. Um we spoke a little bit about your challenges that you faced as Mayor. With considering the lawsuits and zoning issues – are there other challenges that you faced during your time on Council? 50:29: LB: Well educating the developer when he offered me a meal. And I think that position is restrictive and well thought out. I know that a position against paying for meals didn’t exist in the City of Bryan. One time I had lunch with the Mayor of Bryan when I was a private citizen. That guy expected me to pay his bill. Bryan didn’t really catch on to this, and I don’t know if College Station fully caught on to this. But I think now you better not do it. Because I think the country has caught on to free meals and discounts, don’t let the people wine you and dine you. 51:12: TG: Yeah. Uh to switch gears a little bit. Talking about challenges but moving to accomplishments. Do you have any, or do you feel like any of your issues were your biggest accomplishments? Or what were your biggest accomplishments? 51:28: LB: I think we had a tradition of sensible zoning decisions. We had a tradition at one time of not buckling, under threats of suit. We did get the park land dedication, we did get the appointments to city committees straightened so not biased in favor of development. I don’t remember making any decisions while I was mayor that I regretted. Not a one. 51:57: TG: Well that’s a positive. 51:59: LB: Oh I guess I do regret one decision. 52:02: TG: Okay. 52:03: LB: And it’s come around to haunt me. And that’s to define single-family residents as four unrelated people. You see Southside kind of being gradually becoming a very high density and layered in concrete because of that decision. And in fact, I think the City for a while was just looking the other way, and let home owners construct humongous buildings that obviously take more than four unrelated people. 52:36: TG: Yeah, they kind of look like apartments now. 52:39: LB: Right, there’s even something within view of City Hall that’s multistory. You can just look across the street, northeast and you will see it. It’s “great big.” I don’t know how the City justified permitting that. And I noticed on that street are a lot of others. In my area of town, which is close to the intersection of Pershing and Goode, there’s as a street behind me that has only two single-family residents out of about 14. On my street, there are about five single-family residences out of about 12. And then on Pershing which bends around, they’ve got a lot of single-family owned residences being converted. But it’s not a matter as uniform as my street. I like the students myself. I get along with the students. If they’re going to have a party late at night, they come by and ask me, if it’s alright. We can put up with that. What we don’t put up with is an unannounced party that’s in one of the houses behind us or on the side. One house on one side is a football house (sporting event), where the family only comes in for sporting events. If you can imagine. There’s two other houses on my block that are sporting event houses. That’s unbelievable, I think. There’s another house that’s not a sporting events house but the owner comes in occasionally. We’re not really overwhelmed with student housing. We did have one house that did get out of control and that house was occupied by a fraternity. That house gave rise to an accident at about 2 o’clock at night. Students, members of that fraternity, left that house going west on Goode and were driving too fast and they missed the stop sign, and in fact, they ran right over it. Goode has a little curve on the road at that point. They crossed Pershing and hit a tree. One of the students got a broken spine or back because of that. The tree was stripped of its bark over, say 9 or 16 square feet. Fortunately, the person whose property it was on, worked at one of the agricultural colleges and he promptly treated the tree, so that the bark was replaced with some substance. The tree didn’t bleed its sap to death when spring came. That tree is still alive. It probably has a scar, would you like to see it? 55:58: TG: Sure. 55:59: LB: I’ll give you a tour of the other student houses. The house across the street was resided in by a child of the owner and they are very nice people. Students say that they like “single family” houses. 56:19: LB: Let’s see, the house behind me is resided in by a child of the owner. I don’t know if he’s graduated or not. But there’s one house catty-corner to my house behind me that has a family. They have little children. They make up for everything. You know the fact that my street basically only has one residence with children, present residents, they are already college aged. We do have one house with children at play on this street. The bad thing about having all the students is that they come and they go, you get to like them and then they leave after graduating. You don’t have typical residences of young people with children and old people getting older. You know it’s not a typical single family residential neighborhood. They really need to change that ordinance. And have a maximum of two unrelated people not four. And get stricter with building permits. Whoever was passing out the building permits just let too much slip by as you can see driving down Pershing Avenue. I can’t blame anybody but the City Council to let that slip by. You know it, you see it behind City Hall, and they have parking lots, of course. But you see it happening to residences back there. You see it happening in my area which is called the South Knoll area. You see it happening in in Southside. They really should put a stop to it. But the City Council has to have another election maybe or some more elections before they do. 58:27: TG: Yeah, I guess we have to see what happens. 58:30: LB: We will see what happens. 58:32: TG: Do you have any reflections? We are getting towards the end of the interview and the oral history. I’m wondering if you have any additional reflections on your tenure with the City? Now that it has been several decades since you have been Mayor and Council person. 58:49: LB: It was a very pleasant experience. I remember it was a fulfilling experience. It was nice when somebody who is about 80 years old, says, “Yes I remember you. You were Mayor.” But nobody else remembers me as Mayor. [Laugh] 59:10: TG: Well this interview will hopefully help others remember your contributions. 59:17: LB: I guess especially if you sneak passed some of the spots when I asked you to turn off the tape recorder. 59:26: TG: [Laughing] I did in certain areas when you asked me to. Um, so to move forward do you participate in the community? Other service organizations? 59:36: LB: No. I thought about running for Congress back when my term ended as mayor. (Phil Gramm was elected Congressman then.) I didn’t do it and my one observation is that politics is that it’s a matter of luck. You can look all the way from my being elected mayor to Barrack Obama being elected to the Senate because of one speech he gave. That was the anti-war speech and he caught fire because of that. Even Donald Trump had a little outside help didn’t he? Which he forever denies. He had some outside help. If you run for City Council, you have to have outside help, too. The outside help can either be a group of people who want a favorable business environment which, translated, means zoning and development. Because they will put up money, they will put up big money or you can get people to be backed by an association of house owners as they can be. The City is now organized. I think that house owners pretty well participate in that group now. I would encourage them to continue participating otherwise the money is going to elect City Council. Maybe it is good to have one, but I’d say don’t, I would advise the City not to do it. That is have a pro-business Council person or have one pro-business Council person and that’s it. You really have to have a bunch of highly educated college professors –pick those. 1:01:37: TG: You had mentioned you retired from A&M in 2015. 1:01:41: LB: From A&M, yes. 1:01:43: TG: Since then are you working on or what are things that you hope to accomplish in the future? 1:01:50: LB: Well look here’s what I’m doing now. I’ve really got at least the equivalent of maybe 20 filing cabinets of things I haven’t thrown away. It’s actually also two filing cabinets and about 40 boxes and I need to through all that and throw away most. One room that is the garbage room and I really need to go through that and throw things away. Right now, I’m preparing for my income tax return and then I’m going to have my son who is a lawyer, draft a will and trust for me. 1:02:42: TG: Okay. 1:02:44: LB: And then, I’ve been thinking about having a knee operation. I don’t want to have my knee operation because I don’t want to go under the knife until I get things pretty clear. After I clean up the personal affairs that is to say those 40 boxes and have the knee operation, if I have it, then I’m going to travel some more with my wife. 1:03:16: TG: Have you solidified any plans? 1:03:18: LB: Country plans, no. It’d be nice to visit South America, I’ve never been to Asia and unfortunately I had several friends in Japan who have died and now I can’t visit. That’s the disadvantaged of being 82. I’ve never been to Asia. I have been to Africa but Africa is a place of crazy diseases. You also have a lot of vicious animals, if you dare take a swim in a river you’re going to be pulled under by a vicious animal. I’ve stayed clear of further exposure to Africa. I’ve never gone to Australia but it also has vicious animals. We took a trip to Alaska once and I think we can really do that again. I wouldn’t mind going to Mexico again, now there’s a lot of possible travel. Europe is always an interesting place to visit. And my wife wants to go to Iceland and also the Norwegian fjords of all places. Since I’m married I will go to Iceland and/or Norway. 1:04:41: TG: I’ve heard that’s a top tourist destination. 1:04:45: LB: Iceland is. 1:04:48: TG: Yeah, I’ve looked at reviews and it’s climbed up in the destination spots in the recent years. 1:04:57: LB: Yes. I’d really like to take a boat trip to Greece and to Egypt. And I don’t know if it’s possible to combine the two but it would be nice to go to both. 1:05:10: TG: Like a Mediterranean Sea one maybe? 1:05:13: LB: Well I think you can take a boat tour of the eastern Mediterranean. They divide it in eastern and western and so I will have to look into that. 1:05:24: TG: Traveling is great I do love to travel. 1:05:27: LB: You love travel? Yes. 1:05:28: TG: I do. [Laughs] 1:05:30: LB: You look like the type. You like people, you like travel. 1:05:34: TG: [Laughing] yeah, um I don’t want to go to a city that’s built on a mountain top. 1:05:42: LB: I don’t, I think I ruled out the – what is that city that is built on a mountain top? 1:05:50: TG: Um, I think its Machu Picchu? By the Incans? Or Incas? 1:05:56: LB: By the Incas, yes. 1:05:59: TG: Yeah. 1:06:01: LB: No, no, no. Machu Picchu. 1:06:05: TG: Oh yes. 1:05:06: LB: Ma-chu Pi-cchu. Yeah. I don’t think I have the lungs for that altitude anymore. And those islands off Ecuador, the Galapagos, I think that’s beyond my price range now. [Laughing]. They’ve really held out their hands and get money to go both places. There’s always Costa Rica, which is a beautiful place. And Nicaragua if you use Caravan Tours. There’s Panama Canal. Lots of South American countries. 1:06:38: TG: Yeah it would be interesting to go on. Somewhere in South America. 1:06:45: LB: You can get a large waterfall in southern Venezuela and somewhere along the Argentine. Oh my goodness I forget if it’s Uruguay or Paraguay? 1:07:00: TG: I’ve seen and heard they have wonderful large national parks that are really interesting to visit. 1:07:09: LB: Chile also has a lot of very attractive places. Indeed. 1:07:13: TG: Yeah. 1:07:16: LB: And uh, it would be nice to see the jungle in South America as long as it’s still there. It’s disappearing. It would be nice, there’s a lot of nice places in South America. 1:07:31: TG: Would you be interested in taking a boat trip, from like Argentina or Chile. Like a cruise to Antarctica. 1:07:39: LB: I would be interested in that, too. But I have an idea that it would just be boring. 1:07:45: TG: [Chuckling] why is that? 1:07:48: LB: I don’t know. To me it’s boring when you’re traveling. When you stop it’s when it’s not boring. That reason the Alaska cruises are very interesting because you have three or four stops on the cruise. 1:08:05: TG: I guess you can’t do much stopping going to Antarctica. 1:08:09: LB: That’s the problem with Caribbean tours. What do you want to see on the Caribbean coast? 1:08:16: TG: Well, I’m not a beach person. 1:08:20: LB: Well. Costa Rica has very nice beaches. The only thing I think you’d see aside from nice coral reefs, you’d see some interesting wildlife. We ran across a school of squid in the Costa Rican Ocean. 1:08:37: TG: That’s pretty cool. 1:08:38: LB: Yeah, mother and a daddy squid. And little tiny squids. That was interesting. And prior to that time I didn’t realize that squids, squid or squad had families. 1:08:51: TG: [Chuckled] that’s funny. Yeah. 1:08:52: LB: And we were in the middle of the jungle that had howler monkeys in Costa Rica. They never came close to us. We never really heard them howl except about a half a mile away. Costa Rica is always nice to visit. Guatemala. If you go on a tour which keeps you out of the capital city, which is Guatemala City. Other cities in Guatemala are just fine, but Guatemala City they say has problems. And Caravan Tour kept us out of there. We had a guided tour of the city and then they arranged for us to get taxi to and from museum we wanted to visit. They took real good care of us. Guatemala City is an exciting city also because the airport is right in the middle of the city. You wonder how to they land planes and take off from there? Because there are a lot of houses close by, I think they only have one runway too and there are houses on both sides of the runway, well within a reasonable distance. That’s an adventure in itself. Well, anything else you want? 1:10:13: TG: Um. I guess the last question to wrap up would be, what advice do you have for those who are interested in public service? 1:10:19: LB: Well. Look. If I were a businessman I would really shy away from the City Council because Dick Hervery told me, Dick Hervery was manager of a local savings association. He told me, “Get out while everyone is happy” for a reason. The reason was that particularly if you feel like you’re going to favor the building and development community, I just wouldn’t do it. If I think I could not stay off decisions where I have to favor them I would be real hesitant to do it. I would rather run for the school board. The schoolboard you do a lot of good things there. I don’t think you get such a black eye. Now as a councilperson there’s all sorts of people that come before you, there are citizens with no interest in building and development and they have things to ask of you. One thing I noticed of local politics is that people have a long memory if you vote against them. But if you vote in their favor, you voted the right way of course from their point of view, and that’s it. If you want to serve the community get on a city board, but avoid the city council. Get on the school board and you’ll be a hero. You’ll be a hero if you run, but I’d shy away if I had a financial interest or friends in the development community interest or if my spouse has an interest in zoning and development. I would just stay from it. 1:12:17: TG: Wow. Yeah, so any last thoughts before we go ahead and conclude? 1:12:22: LB: Well you know if you run, I may contribute to you, I contributed to a lot of people who have run. It’s not big money, it’s something like fifty dollars ($50.00) or sometimes forty-nine dollars and ninety-nine cents ($49.99) because fifty is where you fall off the cliff and your name has to be reported by your candidate. 1:12:45: TG: Okay. I’m going to hold you to that. 1:12:47: LB: No you’re a fifty dollar one. 1:12:49: TG: [Laughing] 1:12:52: LB: You don’t have to bother at all. 1:12:54: TG: Well thanks. 1:12:55: LB: But you do have, you might want to go back to work for the City, I might shy away from you and tell you to stay away from it. 1:13:05: TG: Right. 1:03:05: LB: Because then people here might resent the way you vote. They never forget it if you vote against them. 1:13:16: TG: But if I vote, if I support some people. 1:13:19: LB: They’ll forget it. 1:13:20: TG: [Laughing] so this concludes our interview. I want to thank you for your time today and the time today that you took to come out to Municipal Court, to conduct this oral history with me. Thank you for your contribution for this interview for Project HOLD. But of course, your time with the City as well. So we really appreciate it. 1:13:40: LB: Well I appreciate you interviewing me and I hope I have given you helpful insight to what was going on in my time, and if I can help you further, you let me know. 1:13:52: TG: Absolutely. Thank you so much.