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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Interview Questions Jones Council Member Interview Questions February, 2012 Thank you so much, Tony Jones, for taking the time to participate in this interview for the City of College Station’s Project HOLD, historic online library database. This interview about your tenure as Council Member of College Station will become part of that invaluable library for current and future generations. We really appreciate your time and participation! Tony Jones Served on City Council 1978-1982 (2 terms) 1. Running for Office. Elizabeth Vastano Q- What led to your decision to run for public office? Tony Jones A- I ask myself that a lot of times. As a kid coming up I was the first one to graduate from college and I was here and I was involved somewhat with the kids. But I got enthused with what was going on and how we were growing and said lets try to participate so I ran and the first time I ran I lost. And the next time I ran I won. I took over Anne Hayes’ place when she dropped off the council. In fact the lady that beat me the year before were best friends. It was in that short period when we had a ward system. We had that one year, and it was in that short period of time when that was on there. College Station was growing and we were just doing great and I just wanted to get involved, I thought. I thought I did, and I didn’t know, but I’ve enjoyed every bit of it. (00.02.56) Q- If you ran more than once, was it the same motivation each time or were there different triggers? A- There were a lot of controversies back then but with that, things that I didn’t agree with, and I knew that we-the community- was pulling apart. One side going one way, you may have three or four different directions and I felt, if I get in there, I can stop this and put us back together. To recognize I couldn’t and I had really fortunate because I wound up serving with four different mayors when I was on the council. I started with Lawrence Bravanek, then Gary Halter, then to Larry Ringer, then to Lynne Mcalheinne (sp). We were all at the council at one time, all together. It was nice, and it was a little bit unusual. My first year on the council, three of the people on the council was Larry Ringer, Gary Halter, and Jim Dossier (sp). Well, all three of those, I had as profs at A&M, so it was a great deal for me, I really enjoyed it. -Vastano-That’s amazing, I look back on that is sort of the golden years. It was real good for me, I really enjoyed it and learned a tremendous..I think that is what kept me involved is from that perspective versus being on the outside looking in, you have a tremendous education that you would never get…and that into the schoolboard was a completely different scenario. And then the commissioners’ court was, then again, a different area. It was fun, enjoyable, but I had no interest or desire to go out of the county. I always thought there was a dilution. Every time you went up, you just got diluted more and more and more..of the territory you took care of and I felt that the commissioners court was the closest and best known for just working with everybody right there, so that was my final. (00:06:09) Q- What is your most vivid memory of the campaign experience? A- Probably most vivid was my second term, my first time to run but the second I was elected. My daughter was about 6, my son was about 7, and as a family we were all walking neighborhoods, and and here are the girls--Laurie a little blonde-headed thing—just going up, I want you to vote for my daddy, and our lab was sitting out there on the sidewalk, and the white lab with the t-shirt with the signs on it, and I’ll never forget that. That was really a good deal and we probably got more for it than any other time. The only other time I have, well I wasn’t on the council, but when I was on the second term for the commissioners’ court. When you come out and you sign out and they will say well we will talk about this position and that position and they’ll show an old picture and then the weekend before early vote, they put everybody on there. They went to archives, and pulled out Tony Jones. He was the black Tony Jones that used to play football at A&M. And I got more (?) out of that than anything I could had ever done. People would say, “Well, gosh, are you going to sue them?” I’d say why? It was just a mistake. I was teased all the time. (00:07:54) Q- Would you say the campaign(s) focused on issues or on personality differences? A- I tried not to be an issue oriented councilman. My desire was knowing how the city of Bryan and the city of college station did not get together.. one side of town did not get together with the other, one profession did not get together with the other back and forth. It was a big clash. I felt that I was sincere and I could do something about that to put us back together and my first year was a learning process and the second year you are just finishing up and you got to run again. I was in a lot of good committees and had a lot of different things happen. I happened to be on when college station really started growing. I think A&M was the leading enrollment in freshman class for about three or four years running, there in the nation. And so we just kept going and if you had a bad time it would just jump right back at you. So it was a time that you thought you could put something together. We had a deal that Bryan and College Station were just at each other’s throats. I thought that is no way…that if we are sister cities, yes we are going to have competition, yes we are going to have competitions, but let’s have healthy ones. We had a council meeting together at the Brazos Center for about two weeks. And they had a table where we set at. And a table at the middle and a table for Bryan and you would have thought we were a bunch of junior high. Somebody would say something, he would laugh, he would yell, he would throw a pad across the table…Time out, let’s go take recess..we kept on, we just kept on, until we got some resolutions that we all agreed to where would not be annexing around one another. We set there at highway 30 and University Drive. University is to be College Station’s all right-of-way. Highway 30 was to be Bryan’s. They had all the right-of-way, but they had to grow there we had to grow up here. At that time no one thought we were going west but we did have kind of a checkerboard out there. Everything worked out good. It stayed that way for a long time, let the feelings of people not participate, not getting along with one another. I never have understood it. I have been 43 years, and I still don’t understand it. Right before they bought the convention center there at University center, about 5 or 6 years ago. I talked to the married couple that counseling at one time. When they did that, I said that’s not the right place. I did some investigation and found the same spot, University and 47, that little corner; 16 acres there right across the airport. I researched the whole thing and went to the aviation and sat down and showed them all of this. They said they weren’t interested and they didn’t want anything to do with Bryan and they didn’t trust me. I couldn’t believe it. If this is a chance of doing, I will take it to the city of Bryan and can’t see if I can get them to build a convention center. I will go ahead and do all of that. I wasn’t a broker, I didn’t own any of the land, and I was doing this for purpose. (12:40) Q- Did your family participate? A- Yes they did. We all walked through neighborhoods. I had family that would come in the weekends from San Antonio. We had lots of some of the fraternities on campus of when I went to school; they came and helped on Saturday’s. We had a good time. It was fun. It wasn’t fun losing, but it was fun having everyone together. The worst that it hurt was the last one. I ran about 3 years ago. I was beat by a junior at A&M. I could not believe that it was happening. I said that was for me. I wasn’t going to be able to do anymore. There were a lot of people how were afraid of me because of a developer background … but if they did any of their research, they wouldn’t have had a problem with me. I guess they call it the elected official. I did more than everybody else. They had favoritism towards this guy. It didn’t bother me; I knew I was going to have to. I never tried to put something there that would be complex. I always want the complement. It was people not knowing me and a lot of the areas, it was hard to get them to listen and understand to a builder and developer. (13:00) Q- What do you think gave you the edge to win? A- I think it was probably the dedication I put into it. I put everything I could into it. I walked and I walked and I walked. So many people told me they voted for me because I went and asked for their vote and they appreciated that. It’s getting real hard to do that now because it’s getting big. I did that 3 years ago and now I have had a knee replacement and I can’t walk how I walked 3 years ago. (16:20) Q- After the first campaign, did it get easier? A- It got easier because I was seasoned for it. That first year was tremendous as far as the learning capacity. And once you start learning, you can be more effective in what you’re doing and research. My second term I was pretty knowledgeable and I could be pretty good, and I think the end of our second term I had to make a decision to working all the time and sit on the council all the time. I wasn’t doing anything with the family, we talked and visited and decided to not run again. It was the best for us. Some people wanted me to run. There is a time and place for everyone and everyone has a place. The one think I can break down is the animosity from one group to another. There are so many people who want to be involved, but won’t do it because they don’t want their families put into a negative position. I know a bunch of them, like Don Elrige(sp), he would of loved to be on there but he wasn’t about to go through what was going on. People don’t want to put their families through these things. (19:03) 2. There is a saying that all politics is local. Q: How has city politics changed from your council service to today? A: well, the growth has gotten large. I can’t remember what it was back in 1979, it was probably around 25 to 28,000 people and now were right at 100,00 people. A big little family. That was the biggest situation is the change and with the change the more people that came in, and we were growing and going in different directions. Now we find the same thing with taxes going up because they can’t make ends meats and so they are cutting employees and cutting out departments. Being a business man, I know you can do things and so them without doing all of that. In fact, I told a couple of guys about doing this, one was Dick Annex. I said “Dick, I’d give anything,” this was before the last two city managers. One of them left and the other one didn’t want to stay, they were going to have to research to find another, and I said, “I’d give anything, and give me the job for two years and I will turn it around.” And Dick had talked to some other council members, since he had been on the council himself, and they were going to find a better person and it doesn’t work. You have to have someone who is not doing it just as a job and to grow. Most of the city managers, 5 or 6, I have been through with. The first one was the best city manager we have had, Nark Marwell(sp). He was on top of the table with everything, nothing hidden, if you wanted to go ask someone something you went to him. Barber heads didn’t mind so we would go in and talk to the different arms about this and how this is going, and no one took offence. After King Cole, he didn’t start this but after him it was started that you couldn’t talk about issues and you had to ask permission to talk to someone, also the councilor couldn’t talk to the staff. I learned a lot on the council. We had a position open up and I was told the job was going to a young lady who had been in a utility clerk and I thought, “Why are they going to hire her?” It turns out she was the best candidate, I asked how many candidates had applied and my response was she was the only one. When I said that, the council got quite and decided to grumble and decided to put that back out again. The guy who was in charge of that, who Nark probably encouraged him to find another job. I’m the kind of person that wants a bill inspector and find one who is good and has a good background, I’m goanna go steal him! And that’s how things go around and that helps you to get people who have around 15 years of experience, and they know how to do their job because they’ve been there. We have failed to do that, and we still are hiring students who work temporarily then to full time and that is work themselves up and that same memo log is how it has never changed. I suggested a long time ago to bit the bullet and pay a little bit more for the right people, and it would solve a lot of problems. But the daughters were more important. (24:20) Q: How would you characterize your relationship with other City Council members? A: when I was on the council I won the confidence of all the city councilmen. I had been a better developer and you know you have a hard time, but I won their confidence. They believed and trusted me and something came up where I was the developer who was going to have his ground up and I knew that I might buy some loss in it. When that came up I would go sit down and wouldn’t participate in it at all. I was asked why and I said that I was made by some luck and I don’t want to be a problem or seem like I was swaying the vote. I guess little by little we all had a great relationship and I will always remember that. (25:20) Q: What advice would you offer today to people thinking of running for public office? A: Don’t be afraid of what comes about, be positive not negative, there’s so much negative that is spoken and it’s a majority who think about the negatives over the positives. The good people don’t go out there and say anything and you may have a situation that comes up and maybe 17 people show up and can sway what happens. But you got 60,000 out here and they didn’t. Well, I think you really need to do some research and talk to people. When I was on the commission’s court I got a good little mail out and email and would send those things out all the time. When something would come up I would out, “what do you think?” and it was important. If I sent out 100 I might have gotten 15 back, I didn’t get much but it was their opinion. That was important to me. I think the same thing is open yourself up, don’t put a label, don’t have an agenda, and if there is an agenda it is to be about the better of College Station. (26:45) 3. City employees sometimes feel they are precluded from knowing or talking with local elected officials. Q: During your tenure did you reach out to city employees? A: Very much so. We were out talking and visiting and people would talk to me. I used to ride, about twice a month. I would call chief Merick(sp) and tell him I would like to go out with him and get to see how things were going on first hand. And I would ride with him and we would talk, and he was a little bit afraid to talk to me because he didn’t know where I stood. The more we talked the more honest we got. What was said there was going to stay there and the police would give them a list of problems. I also did that with the fire department. This is what got a good relationship and they knew they could talk to me because no names were going to be talked about. I enjoyed that portion of that. (28:00) Q: How did the City Manager and Department Heads feel about direct interaction with employees? A: Back then it was not a no no, it was something that was open. If you wanted to just show up and talk to them it wasn’t a problem, and we had good relationships. We talked to the city engineers and everyone, “why do you think this?” or “why are you wanting to do this over this?” and “what did you consider before making the decision?” I didn’t want to sway one way or another but I wanted to say, “how do we get here?” and “why do you not want to do this or that?” I had some good reasoning and I understood more. But today I don’t think a councilmen gets that same education by talking with them, because they are not able to. And it’s not because you are doing something behind someone’s back, were not on their day to day basis we don’t see a lot of things and if we were able to talk it would open some doors that normally you wouldn’t have. (29:06) Q: What kind of relationship did you have with the City Manager? A: I had a lot of respect for Nark, I really enjoyed being around and talking to him, he was a friend, a friend all the way to his death. He was a much respected man. I didn’t know him before he was the city council, he used to be city of engineering and all kinds of things here before my time. He was fantastic and always putting out on the line. I can remember we went to a conference in Fort Worth and after I had gotten on the council. And we had different places to be, council and city managers, I didn’t get time right and didn’t get to where I was suppose to go, I was just messing around. And Nark said, “What are you doing?” I said I had missed my meeting and I’m going to sit here and wait for the next one, Nark told me to come with him. Now Nark is a big guy and when we sat down the speaker was talking about how to get things across and to keep guys in the dark and you don’t have to tell them what’s going on and Nark was trying to get out of that chair. He was a good guy. (30:37) Q: How does a City Council member know what is “really” going on in city departments? A: Today, I do not know. And they may know more than what I think because they are in the position where some of the discussions are. I go up every once in a while just to listen and see what’s going on, not for any reason but just to hear them talk back and forth. Sometimes I wonder just that, they make a decision and I don’t really think they have a good feel for it. They may, but it’s what the presentation that they can adapt to in a short time, it didn’t sound like a good understanding. (31:20) 4. TAMU has been central to College Station from its beginnings. Indeed, most city services first came through the University and the history of College Station can be seen partly as a reach for independence in providing those basic city services. Q: How would you characterize the relationship between the City and the University during your administration? A: During my administration we had a good relationship, we talked and we were open and direct with each other. We had a good line of communication. As time went on, I could see the growth and politics of A&M and it got to be a little harder to communicate. I had two things that I can remember. The first one was when I was on the council and the University came to make a presentation to both cities to take over the airport. A&M wasn’t going to sell it but let us take it over. You would have considered that both cities call for emergency meetings and agreed and four days later said we would do it. And they couldn’t understand how we had made such a decision in a short time and so they took it off the table. I think that was a downfall and a blindside because the two cities could of expanded it more because it was turned over to the businesses and outsources. I think that would have been good for everybody. The only other thing I know was in 1997, we had a water board set up and I served on that and it was for Bryan and College Station. I remember one of the men from the university came up and said my superiors want to get out of the utility business. We would like one of you or both to take over the water and sewer and we will just buy from you because we don’t want to be in that business anymore. And it was like cut throat, I’m in peoples stuff. Both cities talked and we came back real quick and both are public to the names, it was a fight. Finally, he slammed his hand on the table and said, “Gentlemen we are not a piece of meat that two dogs are fighting over,” and like that it was off the table. To me, that was impressive. It never sunk in and it’s still that way. It’s just amazing to me, since I am a different situation, I feel like if Bryan wanted something and we didn’t have a shot at getting it we would help Bryan to get it. Someone has to step up to the table and make the first move. I remember when Bryan had all of them at Northgate and they were servicing the entire sewer and everything with the water. We didn’t have our lines there yet and they were going to cut it off on a certain date and I remember Henry Seal out there with his big loft and he made a big presentation with it and how he locked us off. I never could let that sink in. there are certain things that Bryan is not going to do that College Station will do. Why can’t we work together? There are some things we compete for and if they win it, help them. It’s going to go back and forth and I think when the city of Bryan was down before traditions, they were not growing. They didn’t have subdivisions and no good ones. And when they stood up at the table and brought that I thought it was great and it brought them back on top. At first they didn’t have a whole lot of help from everybody because they were competition with everyone here, but no one else would have done that and that put Bryan back on top. It helped bind them and College Station. We were both the same population. I think there were two newspaper and you get so much more than out of one, the same with the two cities. (36:36) Q: What special issues are there to being a city council member in a university town? A: I think that Bryan College Station is extremely unique. I don’t know of another community as small as we are with such a large University like that. There is land that we can keep growing for now on with the University and that together helped everybody because the University is what kept Bryan College Station going. Now we are getting more diversified and there are other things but it still is the center of the growth and that is whatever we do it helps them and whatever they do helps us. It’s a good partnership. (37:28) 5. Growth is critical to an expanding tax base. Q: How did services to citizens expand under your tenure? A: We grew much faster than the caplum(sp) improvements were being put on the table. We were behind and no one expected where the growth came from. We had a 10 year plan and two years later we had another 10 year plan and then 2 to 4 years later we have another 10 year plan, we were that way for probably 15 years and it’s accepting that we were going to grow, accepting how we’re going to grow, and accepting where to do all this water. Both cities didn’t like the water thing and were fighting with the districts because who was going to get the water back for them. They could have put a centralized front line from the water fields coming right straight through, you tape off of it and save everyone millions of dollars, that wasn’t going to happen. (38:35) Q: Was there a dynamic tension between developers and neighborhoods during your tenure? A: I think that the tension was with a two faced deal, or a double swinging door. There were some people who didn’t want developers around and some developers wanted to push and get a little too much from what they needed to be there. There was a lot of I don’t want and too much of wants, we can’t have that without this multifamily leasing commercial and instead of having a good plan. So I put blame on both people, the developers seemed to be a little greedy and the citizens were afraid wolves in the dark. It was just hard to come by that way. (40:00) Q: Do you think College Station has been handicapped by not having a “downtown”? A: We thought about that and a long time back and forth. It was thought that at that time Northgate was our downtown. It went from Northgate to Post Oak mall, we did not have a downtown. And it’s an unusual place to be thought in. Weather is handicapped us or not I don’t think it has because you can drive around in any of these small cities, downtowns are not much there everything else is around them. Bryan wasn’t that way until they bit the bullet and were going to make it work. They got grants to get a downtown and they are fixing it, the right people are back there. We don’t have that so were a little handicapped but I don’t think we want to establish one either. We have a downtown but just in about four different areas. (41:01) 6. Transportation is always a point of great interest in growing communities. Q: Was transportation an issue in your administration? A: I think transportation was in my administration and every administration. The fact being that transportation will not pay for itself and if you think you can break even, let’s do it. But the stories and research are not going to break even, you are too small and won’t break even. I don’t think San Antonio and Austin with all the buses and everything probably breakeven but they get so many federal grants and that makes the transportation happen. When we get bigger we will get those federal grants. There was someone, I forgot his name, who worked with that a lot in the community and he’s in the downtown parking garage and worked on the project for about 10-15 years, and it was all done with grants. It was a long and hard fight. (42:22) Q: What steps to improve transportation were taken? A: I think the biggest thing with transportation was trying to upgrade a third berse(sp). We were handicapped because the old highway 6 was the only north south we had. When I was on the council, we started afamatics(sp) off of highway 30 and that was a design to go all the way to Rock Prairie and I kept asking and fighting that if we wanted to control that we need to get some bonds and put it in. if we put it in we can put a impact on anybody who was going to do anything. We can control the neighborhoods but they let the developers do that instead. Next thing I know they are putting in afamatics and on the other side they didn’t want anyone in their neighborhood. So we have nothing on the East side road except for Wellborn road. That in a community that we are in, with all these students, in the morning it’s not fun to be around. Even we have some by passing areas and I’ll drive to get to the University drive and go all the way around and come back in through Bryan, it’s easier to get there that way. I think that was a handicapped we had, we did not have that north south good transportation. I know we have tried to do Welsh about four times, that way intersected with University drive and Welsh on the south end was designed and put in to protect everyone who is walking around. There are parks around there. But when you have to Holleman that was almost all rental copy and they fought left and right. There was one lady who lived at the end and they didn’t want to have her move her house and I understand that. But I thought that you have to get a life estate deal, but let’s go ahead and have a plan and get something implemented down to that point and it went through I don’t know how many administrations. We needed to have that north south other than Wellborn and Texas Ave. (45:25) 7. College Station has a strong parks and recreation system. Q: Did the parks system expand during your administration(s)? A: I think the park system started during our administration. We hired Steve Bitchey(sp). And Steve was the ingredient, he worked hard, he went and found grass, he helped the city do everything in the world, and he kept doing it. We were a model city, they used us as a pier situation, and we want to be College Station. Right now everyone has been well off because of that. He did a tremendous job and we hired him from the valley from another city. (46:25) Q: Were there preservation efforts to mark the City’s historic buildings, homes and other places of interest? A: Yes there were. It got better over time and had more recognition on it. But they had a few back then and they had the embroil put on it and you had to have special permission to remodel. Then they became the old Dexter area, or the historical district. And they started making changes and putting some restrictions on what you could and couldn’t do. They would fix it up and it started to give it it’s foundation of the historical district and it’s still that way and there is a lot off of Lee that is up for sale, it’s a big lot. (47:30) Q: What about the library? A: The library, and I can remember when we first had the bond, and it was voted. I couldn’t understand that to save my life, and that was the same time they had lowtrack. It looked like the taxes would jump or something but people didn’t look at how much diversification it would bring to the city. Bonds are money that has to be paid back, but I was telling someone to think about this, “You’re going to buy a house, so is it easier to pay tax for that whole thing or pay it out every few years when you can pay a little bit at a time?” It’s the same thing with cities and the bonds, which you get it going like a cycle, some start and end, but with this you can spread it out. We would do that on the commission’s court with cars, we would put bonds out, buy the cars, and pay if off in three years. But we were able to do that but we had to do it all at one time and there was going to be sufferings somewhere else in the budget because you could not put that kind of money in there. (49:13) Q: Was there any interest in promoting historic tourism during your administration(s)? A: I don’t know if it is that push, I know it started in there with the growth of the chambers commence to the visitor center. Out of the five there, Bryan was not about to let Shamberg(sp) go to College Station. And they finally got the visitor center out there. We started to get things there like the sports foundation and we had all sorts of things like that they tried to bring in to compliment the city. And I think it was a great thing, and they work really hard. (50:18) 8. The relationship of College Station and Bryan has been up and down over the years. Q: How would you characterize relations with Bryan during your tenure as Council member? A: Rough. Um, jealousy, and I’m being facetious again. Bryan didn’t wanna give up, College Station felt like they would have been the step child and always persecuted. And College Station said, “We’re the big guys now, and we’re gonna tell you.” And it just doesn’t work that way, in business or anywhere else. You can’t have a dominant characteristic and make it work with two cities. You’ve got to learn to work together, if you work together your budgets come down, because you’re working together and all the people are the ones who get the benefit of that. And I wish some people going to start stepping up one of these days, and let’s crush it. Or lets step up to the table and let’s start it. I was always with kids “Now somebody has got to step up there if you are going to make a difference. If no one does that, it’s going to go on just like it was. If you want to change it, put it in your mind, get some people with you, and step up and try to initiate that change.” And I think that’s what we need to do with Bryan; we need to cut that Bryan-College Station fence. That brick wall needs to be torn down, and we need to work. Bryan and College Station will always be two cities. You’ll always have two school districts. In my mind, I don’t think there is ever going to be a merge. And if you accept that, then there is no reason not to get along. Not at all, as far as I’m concerned. (52:53) Q: How about the relationship with Brazos County? A: That was a big education for me. And it’s always been thought, gosh, you know, Brazos County, you just don’t get your money back. You don’t get a fair return for the taxes you pay. When I got there, I started saying, well you don’t get your money back, all the jails are there, county attorney is all there, district attorney is all there, all the courts are all there, the sheriff is all there, all that is not just Bryan, that’s the whole county. And that supplements the way the budget. But they never look at it that way, and I didn’t either until I got there and understood that. And when I started seeing how much of the money comes in from your county taxes from College Station, it doesn’t carry the load that’s necessary, but it doesn’t in Bryan either. And so you have a budget that jumps and you have to find ways to fix it. But that to me, they get, College Station, gets a dollar for a dollar from the county, I believe. I believe that because I was there, was able to see that brung in, and most times they don’t stop to think about those things. They think about the roads, they think about the garbage, the electrical. Those are not Brazos County, but I’ve just named off a number of them right there. And there’s Health Department. You could keep going, road and bridge. Those are all, have something. Road and bridge is wrong, because that doesn’t have anything to do with inside city limits, it’s all outside city limits. But everything else, we’ve have two or three murder cases, big ones, from College Station for weeks and weeks and weeks. Hundreds of thousands of dollars goes into that. And it comes out of everybody’s taxes, it’s not well you got some more money to kick in; it’s just part of that. It’s not going to be every year. Bryans going to have some, College Station is sure, always going to have something. But it always comes out of the same cake for the benefit of everybody. (55:14) 9. Achievements: Q: When you ran for office, were there specific goals you wanted to achieve? A: I think that I wanted to be able to bring the community together and stop the end fighting. I just knew I could do it. I just knew I could. Dick Hervey, he told me that, we were having coffee one time, and we’re sitting down there, and I was just down in the dumps. Dick talked to me “What’s wrong?” Dick, I thought I could be a difference, I thought that I could get in there and fix some of these things, and I can’t. I realized I can’t do it. He says, “You know why?” I said, “No.” Says, “You don’t listen, you got to listen to one another. And you have to understand one others point of view. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to change yours, but you may want to go down this way, and they may want to go this way and you talk. And all of a sudden, you pick the same road and go down the middle.” You don’t try to communicate. Communicate is the dying of everything. Good communication is what makes so many things worse, so much better. And I think that’s probably the biggest thing, you just don’t listen to one another. Somebody over there, get down there and say, don’t need to tell me he’s going to vote this way. Or I’ll look over there and somebody will say, gosh he only got two, five against us, we’re not going to get it. And then all of us vote one way. Why’d you do that? Cause it wasn’t right, you didn’t have your research done, and what you were putting forth was not popular for anybody. (57:02) Q: Did you achieve them? A: Evidently, but I never stopped. I got into city, and it took me awhile to understand the taxation, and what you were doing, the bonds and all this. Got out, and a couple years later I went to the school district. It’s completely different the way things run. You can’t raise utilities to compensate it; you can’t put a few more dollars on electrical or whatever. You got just taxes, and that’s the one thing you have and you have to learn to work within that. And I think that, biggest, well, it’s different in the city, but biggest thing I learned from that is; and I didn’t learn that till I after I married Llana, Llana was a teacher and she retired here. I would see her at school; she was there seven-thirty in the mornings, and she was home seven-thirty at night. Weekends were horrible, I’d go up there and help her fix her rooms up and put things back and forth. And she would have to buy paper, and this and that, all out of her pocket. And I sat down and figured up what she was making, and she was making minimum wage. How do you expect to get good people in your city, or good teachers, if you can’t pay them and help them along? And it’s just going downhill, so it’s just a different scenario there. Now, I’m not going to go back and run for city council or anything (58:37) Q: Did your goals change during your tenure in office? A: I think, yeah, I think to say yes they did. Because I realized some of the fights going on between one another and I tried to be a mediator. I wanted to see, let’s don’t ask for so much, what if they did this and this; let’s get things where it works versus not working. But it was hard, it was real hard. I can’t recall, but I know I had to have some success, but I bet it was less than fifty percent by far. That’s real hard, and you learn that politics gets in the middle of everything. (59:29) Q: Do you have any regrets about things left unfinished? A: I’m trying to think what were the unfinished portions? The only regret I can say is I didn’t have success in breaking down the community where they would complement more than contradict one another. I’d give anything if I could find a way to let this side see and trust this side, and vice versa. I think if you had that, they’d recognize it so they don’t try and step on them, and it’s a lot easier to work. They never did it, and I tried and tried. (1:00:28) Q: What did you enjoy most/least about being on the City Council? A: The education that I got, it was worth more than a master at A&M. It was tremendous what we had to learn. And how our taxes work and what are bonds, and how they work. We went to New York and all this was a tremendous education for me. I had new knowledge, and that was my favorite thing about being on there. WE learned how and why we do things. (1:01:06) Q: Did you find it difficult to make the transition to a more private life? A: No I guess I didn’t because I went right back into the school board and a few years later I was on the commission’s court. I like being involved; I’ve always like to be involved in something. And I want to be involved and make it positive and I want to make it go in a good direction. I am still involved but to a certain degree. We’re working on right now the charter for commitments, I’m on that committee. With that we have a good group of people involved, and were discussing things, and it’s one of these deals of listening to one another, that’s happy. You may have a little arguments, and all the sudden, “I don’t understand what you’re saying?” And that’s what you need that communication for and trusts one another. If you can’t trust one another, you can’t move forth. (1:02:06) Q: What are you proudest of in your life of public service? A: I could say what I’m proudest of is College Station as a whole. It is a city that offers a tremendous amount of Texas A&M and our school systems. They’ve always been a big plus. And for a long time people would move here and study where there’ll going to live by the school systems. And College Station has always had that edge, but it was higher education system and Bryan has a tremendous difference. They deal with so much more negativities than we have today as a group, even in our living areas. We just do not have that here, they have everything there. But our education is higher and always seems to be a little higher and a lot deeper. The education system brings us together with what we need. College Station is a part of me, it’s my home. I love it and I’m not going to do anything to tear it down. (1:03:26) Q: What are your current projects? A: Current projects are playing with my grandkids! 10. Are there other questions you wished I’d asked you? A: I can’t think of anything right off hand because you covered a good distance for everybody, and I hope that you have a lot of other participation from past councilmen and see how that overland how much you get with the same comments or similar comments and I think that will cause a direction from what I said, College Station is my home.